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Thread: When men were men & women were feminine

  1. Link to Post #181
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Not only opinions on homosexuals from some posters in this thread are derogatory, but also some strong opinions about what women feminity should and should’nt be, comparisons between women from different countries, backgrounds or times, to the detriment of the actual North American women (and Europeans as well) all without objective historia and cultural context is really hitting women and homosexuals in a rather ... well.., gosh it hurts, I thought We had to go back to what I have seen being done to gays and women half a century ago.

    Would have been so nice to have this topic discussed based on actual cultural studies and historical facts instead of dreamland sources. Every post having to bring supportive evidence, instead of mere opinions (often biaised for lack of information or skewed belief system from the given poster)

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I am sorry that some have been hurt by posts on this thread--that certainly was not my intention on starting the thread which has wandered far from the original post and that's fine.
    When people are free to voice their opinions then unfortunately people can feel hurt.

    Chris

    Your contributions to this forum are a good example of how to express an opinion simply and without causing pain.
    On the other hand, a few of the posts on this thread go far beyond mere opinions: they may masquerade as opinions but
    are deliberately contrived to cause hurt and to spread division and bigotry.


    There is a massive difference between voicing your opinions and being insulting, hostile and disparaging.
    When someone explains, rationally and politely, why they don’t approve of, for example, same-sex marriage,
    I would respect their opinion.

    But if they try insist that gays are deviants (as one poster here has done) or resort to inflammatory or
    toxic language with the intention of demonising a particular group, they’re not just voicing an opinion.
    They’re using verbal aggression to imply that not everyone in this world has equal rights.

    In fact, the venomous nature of some of the posts here does bring to mind the old adage
    "Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals" :
    A new analysis of implicit bias and explicit sexual orientation statements may help to explain
    the underpinnings of anti-gay bullying and hate crimes


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-homosexuals/

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Whatever works.
    Chris
    And wouldn’t the world be a much happier place if people acted in accordance with those simple words?
    Last edited by Flash; 17th September 2018 at 22:35.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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  3. Link to Post #182
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    The thread started off as fairly specific--Men and Women in a fairly specific time period from a single point of view.
    I was there then, that was my experience
    Some will agree some not.

    People experience very often according to their mind set.
    Some just dont see the good--some dont see the opposite.

    Its all Maya, but very real in this world of duality.

    Statistics--how do you measure respect and community togetherness?

    However the media of today give statistics of ever increasing divorce rates--suicides --anti depressant sales up through the roof--self harm, increased crimes of violence, moped mugging gangs, paramedics , firemen being assaulted. stabbings, drive by shootings, increasing rapes of females and males, even more child abuse, though thats not new, parents killing their children, Drs and nurses killing patients.
    The list is endless.
    Now I could say that lack of a stable upbringing is the cause--there might be statistics to prove for or against--I dont know.

    Anyway I have respect for all opinions and dont dismiss them out of hand even when I dont agree.
    I thank all posts because the person took the time and effort to contribute.
    I disagree with quite a few posts on this thread, but their experience is valid for them.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 18th September 2018 at 07:50.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    One word running through this thread "RESPECT" or lack of it.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  7. Link to Post #184
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Only Fools And Horses viewers 'would call Del Boy a pervert in 2018', says Marlene
    Del Boy is considered one of British TV's finest comedy characters

    He is one of the greatest comedy characters in British TV, the hapless wheeler dealer loved for his get-rich-quick schemes, Cockney catchphrases and dodgy French.

    But a former Only Fools And Horses star has said viewers in 2018 would probably not see the funny side of Del Boy if he came new to our TV screens today.

    Sue Holderness, who played Boycie's flirtatious wife Marlene in the 1980s sitcom - which starred Sir David Jason and Nicholas Lyndhurst as Derek and Rodney Trotter - says political correctness has gone too far and people now would be calling for Del to be locked up.

    "The very first episode, Del gave me a big hug, kissed me fondly and pinched my arse and nobody took any offence at it, except Boycie who looked daggers," she said.

    "And every time we met that would happen. It's quite fun."

    Holderness said she feels sorry for men nowadays "because I don't know how you cope".

    "I don't think you would get away with Del Boy pinching Marlene's bottom without everybody saying, 'He's a pervert and that shouldn't be allowed and he should be locked-up.'"

    The 69-year-old said that while she supports movements such as #MeToo , men now "don't know how to behave" because "almost anything can be deemed inappropriate".

    "A wolf whistle isn't supposed to be allowed now, which I think is such a pity," she said. "It has gone too far.

    "I'm sure it will swing back and eventually we'll be able to flirt away again, but at the moment I don't think it's possible."

    She went on to discuss criticism of the show being racist, saying: "There have been people saying you could never make Only Fools And Horses now, that it was racist.

    "It wasn't remotely racist. Del and Rodney and all that community, there wasn't a racist ounce in their body."

    Holderness also spoke about her experiences of the gender pay gap, saying: "Of course women should be paid as much as men. I'm praying that there will be more parts written for women, which is happening.

    "I was paid much, much less than John Challis (Boycie) on Only Fools And Horses, and when we got to (spin-off) The Green Green Grass, the BBC did the decent thing and we got parity."

    Holderness is reuniting with Sir David in the new series of BBC1 sitcom Still Open All Hours.

    She said working with him again for the first time since 2001 felt "like coming home" and "putting on some old slippers".


    This what I have been trying to get across--and this was written by a woman who was there, then.

    Where has the "fun " gone?

    Chris
    https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/only-foo...140800837.html
    Last edited by greybeard; 5th October 2018 at 10:07.
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  9. Link to Post #185
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    [QUOTE=Flash;1249032]Not only opinions on homosexuals from some posters in this thread are derogatory, but also some strong opinions about what women feminity should and should’nt be, comparisons between women from different countries, backgrounds or times, to the detriment of the actual North American women (and Europeans as well) all without objective historia and cultural context is really hitting women and homosexuals in a rather ... well.., gosh it hurts, I thought We had to go back to what I have seen being done to gays and women half a century ago.

    Would have been so nice to have this topic discussed based on actual cultural studies and historical facts instead of dreamland sources. Every post having to bring supportive evidence, instead of mere opinions (often biaised for lack of information or skewed belief system from the given poster)

    [QUOTE=loungelizard;1249006]
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I am sorry that some have been hurt by posts on this thread--that certainly was not my intention on starting the thread which has wandered far from the original post and that's fine.
    When people are free to voice their opinions then unfortunately people can feel hurt.

    Chris

    Your contributions to this forum are a good example of how to express an opinion simply and without causing pain.
    On the other hand, a few of the posts on this thread go far beyond mere opinions: they may masquerade as opinions but
    are deliberately contrived to cause hurt and to spread division and bigotry.


    There is a massive difference between voicing your opinions and being insulting, hostile and disparaging.
    When someone explains, rationally and politely, why they don’t approve of, for example, same-sex marriage,
    I would respect their opinion.

    But if they try insist that gays are deviants (as one poster here has done) or resort to inflammatory or
    toxic language with the intention of demonising a particular group, they’re not just voicing an opinion.
    They’re using verbal aggression to imply that not everyone in this world has equal rights.

    In fact, the venomous nature of some of the posts here does bring to mind the old adage
    "Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals" :
    A new analysis of implicit bias and explicit sexual orientation statements may help to explain
    the underpinnings of anti-gay bullying and hate crimes


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-homosexuals/

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Whatever works.
    Chris
    And wouldn’t the world be a much happier place if people acted in accordance with those simple words? :thumbsup





    :[




    Below is a quote from one of your earlier posts on this thread, Flash. I would call that a derogatory opinion.


    Quote All todays stats says the same: women make 30% less than men on average, and work twice as hard in the workforce, which in fact makes a 70% differential. It was also that way in the old time. I have seen it my whole life. Very few woman really have the steady support of their male, independently of the culture, civilisation, or Rockerfellers of this world - the latter only utilised a pre-existing make up.
    Last edited by Pam; 5th October 2018 at 13:53.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    My last post was really expressing my feelings and in line with the thread heading, nothing to do with predudice in any form --the thread got expanded, you might say hijacked, beyond the original intention--thats ok

    ch
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    There has been some scientific studies into the effect on the birth control pill and its effects on what women perceive to be attractive in a man as a result of continued use.

    In summary, women that have continually used the pill, as a method of birth control have found "masculine" looking men less attractive and found men that are more feminine in appearance more attractive.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ne-men/274464/

    Its quite fascinating reading...

    Its also very much a cultural thing I feel also, depending on the cultural background and what is perceived as "attractive" as this varies wildly. Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder....and depends if you are on birth control or not...apparently.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    We have to live as man or a woman many times, therein lie the karmic penalties for cruel treatment. If this was realised it would make a difference to men.
    Chivalry is not dead, but not always appreciated these days
    In a mystical sense a woman is a reflection of the Godess who creates, and therefore worthy of respect.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by britman (here)
    We have to live as man or a woman many times, therein lie the karmic penalties for cruel treatment. If this was realised it would make a difference to men.
    Chivalry is not dead, but not always appreciated these days
    In a mystical sense a woman is a reflection of the Godess who creates, and therefore worthy of respect.
    You will have seen a lot in your years here britman.
    Yes women are deserving of respect.
    If men had to go through the 9 month of carrying then give birth---then the population would be very much smaller.
    The Mother is the first and most important teacher.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Couldn't resist

    Role reversal comedy, when a macho unconscious man is treated as women are by macho as unconscious women - if you speak French it is funnier, the American remake of this French comedy has not been made yet (I always prefer the originals anyhow, in whichever language)

    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by britman (here)
    We have to live as man or a woman many times, therein lie the karmic penalties for cruel treatment. If this was realised it would make a difference to men.
    Chivalry is not dead, but not always appreciated these days
    In a mystical sense a woman is a reflection of the Godess who creates, and therefore worthy of respect.
    Quote Yes women are deserving of respect.
    Everyone is deserving of respect

    Quote If men had to go through the 9 month of carrying then give birth---then the population would be very much smaller.
    Maybe. If you are suggesting carrying a baby for 9 months is hard work, I would say only in the last month. Whereas many men who have to do hard physical labor for a lifetime.

    Quote The Mother is the first and most important teacher.
    Chris
    Perhaps, but in a 2 parent family I'm seeing fathers being equally important teachers - and sometimes grandparents. I'm not trying to diminish the women's role here. Hopefully what I'm conveying again is equality. Here in the US, a good percentage of the mother's go back to work after 3 months. Sometimes nannies are employed, sometimes grandparents take over, oftentimes the children go immediately into daycare. In some cases, where the woman makes more money, the father's stay home with the child.



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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Yes Ba-ba-Ra
    Respect and equality.
    When I said carrying, it was more the things that go with being pregnant--morning sickness--sore backs-the works.
    Thanks for your post.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Some things that reminded me of this thread in the news lately:

    Quote This Picture Sums It Up Pretty Well… Transgender Wrestler Taking Testosterone Injections Wins 2nd Texas ‘Girls’ State Wrestling Title



    The Washington Times reported:

    For the second year in a row, a transgender wrestler has won the Texas girls’ Class 6A 110-pound division.

    Mack Beggs, an 18-year-old senior from Euless Trinity High School near Dallas, entered the tournament in Cypress outside of Houston with an undefeated record. He beat Chelsea Sanchez — whom he beat for the title in 2017- in the final match Saturday.

    Video posted online showed a mix of cheers and boos from the crowd following Beggs‘ win.

    Beggs is in the process of transitioning from female to male and taking a low-dose of testosterone.

    Mack Beggs won the title last year too.

    Mark Beggs is transgendering to be a boy.
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...estling-title/

    I don't even know where to start commenting on this. First of all, wrestling is just such a feminine thing for women to be doing in the first place, you have to laugh. Second, this girl "identifies" as a boy, yet she's still on the girls' wrestling team? And then for supposedly sane adults to let her take testosterone injections and then beat up on estrogen-filled girls on a wrestling mat, and the adults responsible pretend that it's in any way fair purely on the level of sportsmanship? And this is happening in Texas? Not even under the early Soviet government or during the Weimar period have I heard of so much gender-confusion stacked up in one place.


    And then there's this: a feminist who is brought to tears after simply being asked if men and women have natural, biological strengths and weaknesses in relation to one another.



    First she's asked what women are better at than men, and she has no problem answering that, and seems very enthusiastic.

    Then she's asked what men are better at than women, and can't think of anything, except, finally, after a lot of hesitation, she says something like "guarding their emotions," which is obviously meant in a condescending and derogatory way.

    When the guy interviewing her suggests other things that men naturally tend to be better at, she gets really awkward, and then literally goes off and starts crying. SJWism has become a religion, and its followers absolutely cannot tolerate religious dissent, even from basic scientific facts of biology.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Woman snaps after date refuses to pay her £99 food bill
    https://uk.yahoo.com/style/woman-sna...133510610.html

    A guy has shared the barrage of abusive messages he received from a woman, after refusing to pay for her food after a date.

    And while that may sound like a douche move, the internet is actually on his side.

    Taking to Reddit to share a series of screenshots of the conversation, user CuteBananaMuffin explained he thought the date had gone pretty well until he messaged the woman to ask her out again.

    In a thread titled ‘Well… There goes the ‘friendship’ with her’ he revealed that she had expected him to pay her for her meal, even though it was six-times more expensive than his.

    “After what you did to me last time you expect me to go out with you again? Wow,” she launched the attack.

    When the man, thought to be from Ireland, asked what he had done she replied, “You made me pay for my own food and drink while you paid for only yours wtf.”

    But he was quick to defend himself.

    “So? You invited me lol, you are lucky you didn’t pay for my food too, plus I got a carbonara and a beer while you got lobster and €80 [£72] wine.‘

    “My food was €17.50 (£19) while yours was €110 [£99]. And you were really expecting me to pay that? I’m a student not your sugar daddy.”

    She refused to see any reason however, going on to slam the guy as “so rude”, and going so far as to say that he was clearly “gay” because “gentlemen ALWAYS pay for a girl’s food”.

    She finished up by saying, “F*** off. All you wanted was to just have sex with me, bye loser.”

    Chris says
    "Well that's not my idea of feminine."
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine


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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Thanks Bill -- Those were the days -- life so simple.
    Relatively free.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    I think it is the man that brings out the female in a woman. And the woman who brings out the male in a man.

    Bull**** posturing quickly melts away when one meets the other.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine


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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    It would seem that men are becoming more feminine and women more bullish or is that my imagination?
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Throwing this into the mix,

    synthesizing the panorama of Sexuality and Gender Identity within Shamanism,

    Introduction - 00:00
    Spirit Spouse - 01:50
    Spirit Spouse Gender - 08:55
    Feminine Tutelary Spirits - 18:30
    Shamanic Sexual illness - 35:50
    Gender and Sexual Identity in Shamanism - 45:00
    Old Norse "Spirit Spouse - 56:53

    Last edited by Dorjezigzag; 11th September 2020 at 22:07.
    “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” (Carl Jung)

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