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Thread: When men were men & women were feminine

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    your text is, to me it seems, a dreamed of text, not ever near the reality.

    Even in old times, men who where men, following your definition, were a very tiny tiny minority, mostly from the higher class, which had money and food.

    the staving masses or those who had to work hard never had the time and energy left to be that feminine or masculine. They were just surviving with quite primitive means.

    To better describe:

    Men were working hard in the woods or hunting. If they were not, their family would starve, which many many family did because their men would be sleazy or drunk bas..., those wifes would have to work double for their children.

    Women had no time for anything else than cooking and washing and being pregnant therefore taking care of a trolley of children, if not dying during delivery of one of them (30% of women would die giving birth). Believe me, after a few years of this, forget the 'feminine' look or attitude (which is a cultural concept anyhow, at least the way you describe it).

    In most untouched societies, women still pair together for survival and help each other, not having that much from their men anyhow.

    To me, after many years on this planet, I perceive us, humans, as in the same mammal make up as other mammals, like lions, where the female does most of the work (hunting for lions) and the male rest and sleep.

    All todays stats says the same: women make 30% less than men on average, and work twice as hard in the workforce, which in fact makes a 70% differential. It was also that way in the old time. I have seen it my whole life. Very few woman really have the steady support of their male, independently of the culture, civilisation, or Rockerfellers of this world - the latter only utilised a pre-existing make up.

    Maybe what you have said is true in your experience, but mine doesn't bear out what you are saying in the least. How do you know women work twice as hard in the workplace? How would anyone know?I certainly have not seen this to be true and I am a woman. Your 30% less salary stat is bogus, at least in the US. It is very easy to manipulate statistics. There are distinct differences between the genders. You have described some of them in your post. Who was it that was out hunting food? Males. Why not the females if they are so hard working? Because they were the ones that had the kids, and nurtured them. Women do not have the strength, nor the aggressive tendencies that men can muster to hunt, generally speaking.

    Your vast generalization the very few women have the steady support of their male, does the male have the steady support of the female, or have you even considered this?

    Undoubtedly, their are many differences between males and females, which should be accepted. This ridiculous idea that women can copy and better everything a male does is really a form of adulation, although I'm sure most women wouldn't see it that way. One of our biggest deficits as women is that we are strongly driven by emotions, which can sometimes cause us to make decisions based strictly on the moments emotion rather than objectively analyzing a situation and tempering that with emotional input. Women seem to be far more fluid in their way of doing things and men are more linear in their task performing. Women are more prone to drama and men far less so(although that could be changing). Of course, there are always exceptions.
    Oh, for god sake. You are asking me where I got the idea women work twice as hard, contesting it, you tell me that stats can be manipulated, and then you go on a spree of insubstatiated women behavior as being prone to drama, emotional, yourself generalising quite a lot while acusing me of doing it. etc etc.

    It may be your behavior, but certainly not the behavior of the thousands of women and men I met in my life, clerks, secretaries, managers, and a quite a few high level professionals.

    This is where I observed the quantities of work of females versus males collegues (not all males, but a good 60% same work load more pay or less work load more Pay).. at their workplace. and I know about every profession salaries in Canada as well as the split between women and men.

    I did not need stats because I observed it, but the stats confirm my observations. Good.

    Why don’t you do your own research before writing and trying to demolish someone’s else writings based on facts.

    Women do not need this attitude from a peer towards their own gender, and men do not need that either, it does not help either gender.

    Facing reality is much more helping for both sexes

    I believe that women do need this attitude from a peer. The attitude is about balance and respect for all, acknowledging differences and accepting them.
    What more can be said peterpam
    I would say that men do need to hear this too.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Whilst it might seem im voicing opinions--that's not really so.
    Just trying to spark conversation on this subject
    Fortunately I can see from all different perspectives.
    Bottom line is that people are different and whatever works for a female a male or a couple is right for them.

    Be happy.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    …and then there’s the woman that’s understated in a plain old cotton t-shirt; her confidence, her femininity, her sensuality radiates from the inside out.

    I knew that post would ruffle some feathers, but frankly, if the woman radiates femininity, I think she still looks better in a dress.

    More power to those in basketball shorts. Tomboys just aren't my thing. To each his own, but men are more alike in their taste than many like to admit, whether we realize it consciously or not.

    There is something mesmerizing about a dainty, submissive, feminine woman, just as sociology studies show that women are more naturally attracted to strong, assertive, masculine men. Some women are turned on by pencil-necked geeks, and that's fine too. I'm not judging. Like I said, to each his own.


    I found this documentary a while ago and found it interesting. It seems there's a lot of black men in the US who are taken by Brazilian women as well.

    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 14th August 2018 at 06:21.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    …and then there’s the woman that’s understated in a plain old cotton t-shirt; her confidence, her femininity, her sensuality radiates from the inside out.

    I knew that post would ruffle some feathers, but frankly, if the woman radiates femininity, I think she still looks better in a dress.

    More power to those in basketball shorts. Tomboys just aren't my thing. To each his own, but men are more alike in their taste than many like to admit, whether we realize it consciously or not.
    Something Ive noticed over the years.
    Woman’s shape has changed --perhaps to suit male preferences. No doubt men's shape has also changed.
    Evolution--subconscious--Who knows.
    Im not talking about going to the gym or any other fitness regime to achieve a different shape.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Yeah, back when child-bearing was still considered a social duty, and people were considered oddballs if they didn't want to raise a family, curvy women with "child-bearing hips" seem to have been more desirable. Just look at the WW2-era pin-up posters. They weren't skinny women.

    Sometime around the 1960's you had really skinny women come into fashion one way or another. I don't know how much of this was "natural" and how much was pushed, but I suspect it was more artificially pushed on society by the usual suspects. Remember Twiggy?



    Mass media has done a lot to screw with the natural balance of male and female energies.

    I think what mass media and social activism have done to the psychology of men and women has had a far more destructive impact than the changing norms in which body types are pushed as attractive, though.

    By the way, Bernays explained this propaganda technique of spotlighting or highlighting (I forget the exact term), which was used to try to make anorexically-thin women appear attractive in the first place. It's all in how something is presented. Whether someone actually wants something or not, if you present it in the right way, and make them think everyone wants it, it'll eventually begin to change the way people think. Classic propaganda. Third wave feminism uses the same techniques to promote women who act like men.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Agreed!!!
    Ch
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    …and then there’s the woman that’s understated in a plain old cotton t-shirt; her confidence, her femininity, her sensuality radiates from the inside out.

    I knew that post would ruffle some feathers, but frankly, if the woman radiates femininity, I think she still looks better in a dress.

    More power to those in basketball shorts. Tomboys just aren't my thing. To each his own, but men are more alike in their taste than many like to admit, whether we realize it consciously or not.

    There is something mesmerizing about a dainty, submissive, feminine woman, just as sociology studies show that women are more naturally attracted to strong, assertive, masculine men. Some women are turned on by pencil-necked geeks, and that's fine too. I'm not judging. Like I said, to each his own.


    I found this documentary a while ago and found it interesting. It seems there's a lot of black men in the US who are taken by Brazilian women as well.


    Thank you for having the courage to post what you truly feel. There is too much self censorship going on these days. You have a right to feel the way you do.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    …and then there’s the woman that’s understated in a plain old cotton t-shirt; her confidence, her femininity, her sensuality radiates from the inside out.

    I knew that post would ruffle some feathers, but frankly, if the woman radiates femininity, I think she still looks better in a dress.

    More power to those in basketball shorts. Tomboys just aren't my thing. To each his own, but men are more alike in their taste than many like to admit, whether we realize it consciously or not.
    Something Ive noticed over the years.
    Woman’s shape has changed --perhaps to suit male preferences. No doubt men's shape has also changed.
    Evolution--subconscious--Who knows.
    Im not talking about going to the gym or any other fitness regime to achieve a different shape.

    Chris
    That is something I have wondered about. I know quite a few women that claim distaste for men, yet they are most definitely promoting their sexuality, some of them with a lot of effort. These women are not gay, so why all the effort and sometimes discomfort? I don't claim to have the answer to this but it definitely makes me curious.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Some psychologists say that women dress for other women---
    Certainly women tend to remember what other women wore at a function.
    Men don't have a clue. Laughing.
    I get the impression that some women are very much in competition with other women--as far as dress goes.
    Men I think are more in competition in a physical way--ie what they do --their status etc.
    Were back to males and females being different.
    When you get a woman who is the "power behind the throne" then that couple tend to be successful as a unit and more often than not happy together.

    Chris.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    As someone already expressed, you are entitled to the way that you feel. It seems to me you miss the fine ol days of yesteryear.
    Me too! I want my mommy.

    I just started reading the Bible and came across this: men are from earth and women
    are from heaven; woman was originally brought forth from man’s longings and then
    solidified with his blood. With that, women are held to a higher order and men are held to
    the sole purpose of protecting women so they may stay holy. What do you think? Have we
    both failed? Seems to me the protectors have left for higher ground. Therefore, woman
    has been called into service to make up for the lack of man.
    These are not perceived needs, but actual needs. The family has failed.

    I live in basketball shorts and t’s.

    It was never good fun when a ‘wolf whistle’ came my way. You try it some time.
    Followed by relentless begging for sex and demoralizing language. Truly, not fun.
    Last edited by Hazelfern; 14th August 2018 at 22:04.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    I've noticed women's shapes changing too. When I was in high school a girl with big breasts was an anomaly. This one girl had D sized breasts and she always got asked out. The rest of us, for the most part, had normal sized breasts.

    I have noticed that fake breasts aside, many young women are much more curvy than we were and I think it's all the hormones in the food.

    But, the amount of plastic surgery is astounding, at least here in America and you just don't know what anyone was born with anymore. I mean they have men getting chest and calf implants and girls getting lipo, butt implants, breast implants. It's insane the attention paid to impossible standards for normal people.

    I am, for the first time in my life, in a more traditional relationship where the guy works and I don't and after a lifetime of being stressed out, I'm happy. When there is real care and a marriage of common ideals, it works beautifully. He's very male and I am just me.

    Great thread for discussion Chris.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    …And then there’s the woman that's athletically inclined whose wardrobe is tasteful and creative. She’s open to experiment with anything from dresses to Boho-chic to Bohemian style to jeans and tee shirt. She has no need to follow the dictates of others rather she’s unlimited in her choice of expression.

    And perhaps also dye her hair purple and green.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Hazelfern (here)
    Seems to me the protectors have left for higher ground. Therefore, woman
    has been called into service to make up for the lack of man.
    These are not perceived needs, but actual needs. The family has failed.
    I don't think it's too hard to figure all of this out. Let's not miss the forest for the trees.

    What were the big social movements that contributed to all of this profound change in gender relations, even the very concept of gender identity, over the past few decades?

    - Third wave feminism (ie voting rights aren't enough; men and women must be indistinguishable in all metrics)
    - The "sexual revolution"/"sexual liberation" (monogamy is oppression; we'll sleep with everyone if we feel like it!)
    - The normalization and social promotion of homosexuality
    - Promotion and adoption of homosexual couples adopting children (what difference could it make if a kid just has two moms or two dads? -- studies show a lot)
    - Normalization of people mutilating their own genitals because they feel they were "born in the wrong body" (about half of them later regretting it and attempting suicide, which is an enormous rate of suicide indicative of mental illness)
    - Normalization of sexualizing children and promoting the idea of "romantic" relationships between adults and children

    It might be uncomfortable for people to realize that every single one of these progressive social movements was promoted by the exact same ideologues, namely a certain sect of subversives dating back to the Cold War.

    Take a look at the street rioters today and it's not hard to find the hammer and sickle flying unabashedly right alongside the feminists and the LGBTQASDFSDFJKSJD++ crowd.









    They aren't being called "Pantifa" for nothing. Many of their "shock troops" literally wear panties. Any ladies here turned on by this development? I doubt it.




    If anyone really wants to know why we no longer live in a society where 'men and men and women are feminine', the entire story is right there. It's cultural subversion and psychological warfare that has been waged for decades through the media and leftist universities.

    The hippies in the 1960's still thought of themselves as patriotic Americans, as misguided as they may have been about that. They wanted peace with the communists (ie passive allowance of tyrannical communist expansion worldwide), but most hippies in the 60's still didn't consider themselves Marxists.

    Remember the Beatles? "If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow." Well times have changed. They're comfortable enough now to go ahead and throw all their eggs openly into the same basket.

    (A close friend of John Lennon's said he was a closet supporter of Reagan before he was shot and killed -- the same year that Reagan himself was shot in an assassination attempt.)

    Quote It was never good fun when a ‘wolf whistle’ came my way. You try it some time.
    Followed by relentless begging for sex and demoralizing language. Truly, not fun.
    Chivalrous men were well on their way to becoming extinct about the same time that women began voluntarily engaging in all the sorts of activities that men once sought to shield them from. I told a story above about my great-grandfather punching a man into the river simply for cussing in front of a woman. Not at her, but just in front of her. How do you think catcalls would have been handled back then? It would not have been tolerated.

    Nowadays, women are just as likely to get punched in the face themselves. I think it's disgraceful, but I'm not the one saying that women and men are indistinguishable and equal in all ways. The radicals who truly believe that should be happy that women are getting into fights no differently than if they were built like men. That's just the beginning of true equality, in fact. Next stop: the draft.

    Ever seen a 130-pound woman try to drag a grievously-wounded 200 pound man off the battlefield while under fire? I've heard stories, and they weren't pretty. But maybe you should start getting your daughters/granddaughters prepared for it now, so they'll be ready when progress comes knocking.

    Reconsider what I'm showing above. The cultural subversives use feminism as their chosen vessel of disruption. Not the behavior of men. All of this is a chain reaction that began with radical feminism. And it was international communists pushing this from the beginning.

    The Soviets paid for all of this stuff to be promoted here, exploiting our rights as Americans to freedom of expression, but they didn't put up with it in their own country. Just like Israel promotes open borders and homosexuality/transvestitism in all countries today, except for their own. "For thee but not for me!"

    What has been done to gender roles in our society is a form of social subversion and warfare.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Your post is profound A Voice from the Mountains
    Thank you for taking the trouble to put it together and post.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    I think its important that people say what they think on this subject, as has happened on this thread,

    I dont mind anyone disagreeing with anything I post as I am aware that I am not my thoughts--if that makes sense.
    Its not taken personally when people disagree.

    I am happy that this thread has brought quite a few posts of differing perspective.
    Please keep them coming.
    For myself, I like to see women dressed in skirts but I appreciate that other modes of dress are perhaps more practical.
    Its got nothing to do with sexuality--just pleasing to the eye.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    looks like we are done on this interesting subject.
    Any more for any more?
    Thanks for all contributions.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Well I posted this video on the thread about masculinity but since this thread is about men and women, and I just went on a rant about feminism, I might as well criticize modern men too while I'm at it:




    Some "men" working at Buzzfeed measure their testosterone levels and find they're below the average for 85 to 100 year old men:




    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 16th August 2018 at 08:18.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    A Voice from the Mountains---Good that's valid and fair minded.
    I suspect that one way or another its been orchestrated.
    Laptops signal another danger to sperm count. ( a cousin of micro wave I think)

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    I like those days, Chris

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    I like those days, Chris
    Agree.
    My wife is a feminist and objected to me putting her name with mine on a reply to my sister by @
    I should have consulted her first before putting her name on a non controversial very brief response mainly about a parcel sent.
    I sent her a copy for info.

    If I got brave I would have asked her to have a reality check.

    I dont mind--keeps reducing my male ego laughing
    That's why she is in my life.

    Ch

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Once upon a time men and women knew exactly where they stood and what was acceptable to each.

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 16th August 2018 at 09:28.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  34. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    KiwiElf (16th August 2018), Lettherebelight (17th August 2018), loungelizard (28th August 2018), petra (16th August 2018)

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