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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    A lot of what you posted I can see the logic of and of course the truth tends to lie some where in the middle.
    Maybe I haven't pushed the boundaries far enough to move the center then.



    This is the same psychological model they use to promote transgenderism and pedophilia and all this other stuff, by the way.

    So I would say it's not the truth which is in the middle (and isn't acknowledging "truth" an acknowledgement of some theoretically fixed position, as you suggest?), but it's popular opinion which generally lies in the middle of two extremes. "Truth" has nothing to do with it.


    Quote I had a woman friend and we talked about gay men.
    Her thought was that, females had given some men such a hard time that they by choice opted for a same sex relationship.
    I can see that. I would imagine the "hard time" has something to do with what's happened since the "sexual liberation" and the death of chivalry, too. It all goes hand-in-hand. It's the general disruption of gender norms and everything in society that was based around them. Now these things are in chaos and confusion, with predictable results. Many people are frustrated in many ways. The suicide rates of transgenders are perhaps one of the clearest examples of that, or the fact that people who willingly have their genitals surgically mutilated at all, with the press even cheering them on for it (at least in Britain).

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    A Voice from the Mountains -- My truth lies some where in the middle, refers to your posts mainly---not in what we are sold by the media.
    Im not discounting what you or any other poster has put on this thread.
    I agree totally that there is an agenda to bring fear and DE-stabalise the human race.

    You posts are valued and respected by me and I am sure by others.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    A Voice from the Mountains -- My truth lies some where in the middle, refers to your posts mainly---not in what we are sold by the media.
    Im not discounting what you or any other poster has put on this thread.
    I agree totally that there is an agenda to bring fear and DE-stabalise the human race.

    You posts are valued and respected by me and I am sure by others.

    Chris
    I'd use a similar "ruler" as Voice has used for gay & straight; gay at one end, straight at the other. Sexuality can & does change and for a variety of reasons. Most people, over time, fit somewhere between. (the difference perhaps between physical/sexual vs romantic attraction plays a role, too)

    We are all capable of both.
    Last edited by KiwiElf; 20th August 2018 at 10:20.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Oh yes!!
    Some who are "straight" find themselves in same sex relationships when they end up in prison.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Scientists Say: If A Woman Has These 12 Qualities, Never Let Her Go

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    If A Man Has These 8 Qualities, Never Let Him Go

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by KiwiElf (here)
    I'd use a similar "ruler" as Voice has used for gay & straight; gay at one end, straight at the other. Sexuality can & does change and for a variety of reasons. Most people, over time, fit somewhere between. (the difference perhaps between physical/sexual vs romantic attraction plays a role, too)

    We are all capable of both.
    I agree with that. The "over time" part is important too, because it reflects changes in hormones.

    That's why I say this is all an attack on the endocrine system and is backed by social programming. No one is simply born a homosexual for life. There are a lot of factors that are playing into this.

    So given all that, how reasonable is it for us as a society to accept an ongoing assault on the endocrine systems of ourselves and our children, coupled with a social push deeper and deeper into normalizing behaviors that were formerly considered degenerate and reprehensible? The Overton window has already been shifted enormously by the same social forces who have been talking about depopulation and the "problematic" nature of Western civilization for years.


    And when it comes to tolerance for tolerance's sake, as if tolerance itself is inherently virtuous, you're led to things like this:

    Quote Social workers are slammed for failing to question 'articulate' adoptive gay father because they 'looked at him through a positive lens' before he killed his baby girl - as it emerges NO ONE has been disciplined

    - Matthew Scully-Hicks, 31, shook Elsie Scully-Hicks and threw her down on floor
    - He denied murdering her but was found guilty by a jury after a four week trial
    - Murder came just two weeks after he adopted her with his husband Craig
    - Elsie had broken leg and once vomited blood in series of attacks before murder
    - Social services missed chances to save her and saw her 15 times before death
    - Two social workers failed to notice a bruise that was on her forehead for 8 weeks
    - Report says professionals 'lacked curiousity' about string of injuries she suffered

    A toddler was murdered by her adoptive father under the noses of social workers and doctors who refused to accept he was anything other than a 'positive parent', a damning report revealed today.

    Matthew Scully-Hicks, 31, from Cardiff, subjected 18-month-old Elsie Scully-Hicks to months of horrific assaults before killing her in an attack so severe her tiny body looked like it had been in a 'car crash'.

    Scully-Hicks, who was married to husband Craig, was visited 15 times by at least three social workers and he made numerous visits to the GP and A&E when he injured Elsie - but there was 'no concern' about his parenting.

    Professionals viewed him through a 'positive lens' and insisted her adoption to the middle class and well-educated gay couple was going well until she died, a Child Practice Review said.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ive-fathe.html


    The social workers "refused to accept he was anything other than a 'positive parent'." That is what happens when you brainwash people to be unconditionally "tolerant" for decades. The idea that a homosexual couple could be abusive to a child was such a taboo thought for these people that they denied the obvious and a child brutally died because of it.

    I posted a chart before on some statistics regarding heterosexual vs. homosexual households, as far as rates of abuse and things like that. There is a significantly greater risk for children to be in these homes, more than double the risk as heterosexual households by various metrics of abuse. So this also goes with tolerance. We are tolerating greater amounts of abusive behavior towards children.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    A Voice from the Mountains
    I am not a fan of social work.
    They seem to have agenda.

    In my heart of hearts I cant support same sex parenting.
    Its not a logic with me just an uneasy feeling.
    However logic says that if a child is carried by the mother for the 9 month in a loving relationship (female & Male)
    Chances are after the pain of child birth etc then the child will be very valued by the parents.

    I still maintain its natural to be gay but not natural for a gay couple to be parents.
    There are exceptions to that rule obviously.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Where do the values from post #1 in this thread originate?

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    Where do the values from post #1 in this thread originate?
    I was born 1945--the year he war ended.
    There was a community feeling--rationing--respect,suport and compassion for others was there.
    Every family had lost some one.
    My father was the Naval recruiting officer and Commanding Officer of the local sea Cadets

    Mum had the local grocer shop--dad retired to work there.
    I saw first hand service to the community--and all that is in post one.

    Chris
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    Where do the values from post #1 in this thread originate?
    Maybe you're wanting to compare the sets of values and ideologies behind traditional Western civilization as opposed to the cultural Marxism being pushed today?

    It would be a very interesting comparison. Western civilization is traditionally anchored in certain religious and social/governmental institutions that come from various sources (the Bible, the Roman Republic, the Renaissance and Enlightenment). These already create a very fertile ground for disagreement and debate, and tend to be self-moderating since we have a republican form of democracy, ie a hierarchy and structure within which to debate social changes.

    What are the equivalents to these things on the modern left? Outside of Karl Marx they really don't seem to have anything to anchor onto. That's why what is "politically correct" can change so rapidly, because it's all just arbitrary "morality" anchored onto nothing substantial at all. It's like Orwell's 1984 where "truth" changes from one day to the next and when you try to look back to the past, it's all been erased because it was "evil."

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Many interesting posts.
    Thanks
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    Where do the values from post #1 in this thread originate?
    Maybe you're wanting to compare the sets of values and ideologies behind traditional Western civilization as opposed to the cultural Marxism being pushed today?

    It would be a very interesting comparison. Western civilization is traditionally anchored in certain religious and social/governmental institutions that come from various sources (the Bible, the Roman Republic, the Renaissance and Enlightenment). These already create a very fertile ground for disagreement and debate, and tend to be self-moderating since we have a republican form of democracy, ie a hierarchy and structure within which to debate social changes.

    What are the equivalents to these things on the modern left? Outside of Karl Marx they really don't seem to have anything to anchor onto. That's why what is "politically correct" can change so rapidly, because it's all just arbitrary "morality" anchored onto nothing substantial at all. It's like Orwell's 1984 where "truth" changes from one day to the next and when you try to look back to the past, it's all been erased because it was "evil."
    I'd love to do that--except the problem is that the *vast* majority of people who think they know Marx have no clue what they're talking about. So to even go there would require a re-education that would need a thread all it's own.

    No, I was actually going to point out that the values greybeard is talking about can have varied origin points, but if you go back far enough, you might be surprised where they could be seen to originate from.

    And, my friend, there are other far more noble points to anchor these values from. Far nobler than Marxism.

    For what it's worth? I believe Marxism is, while interesting, a flawed approach that is best ignored in application.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    greybeard, would it be a safe assumption to say that your mum had qualities that could be considered masculine expressed from a feminine perspective, and vice versa?
    Last edited by hermit; 23rd August 2018 at 18:45.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    "greybeard, would it be a safe assumption to say that your mum had qualities that could be considered masculine expressed from a feminine perspective, and vice versa? "
    Yes--a very strong lady.

    You are very insightful hermit.

    She wanted to go to University but her Father said "No, just a waste of money--you will get married and have children and then where would all those University qualifications be of use?"

    She left home and went to a city where she became manageress of the Cinema--then a civil servant--all in a mans world.
    Dads wife had died of cancer --he had four children and she took him and them on.


    As far as values from the first post go.
    I think they are part of being a human---not part of any era or status.

    The pendulum swings both ways--history shows we go from one extreme to another.
    Very strict code to liberalism--probably an upward spiral though--at least I hope.

    Chris
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    "Innate" :D I like to think that's what they are, at any rate. :D

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    "Innate" :D I like to think that's what they are, at any rate. :D
    Yes I can go with that hermit.
    Chris
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine


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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    I'd love to do that--except the problem is that the *vast* majority of people who think they know Marx have no clue what they're talking about. So to even go there would require a re-education that would need a thread all it's own.
    People are free to open Marxist re-education centers in the US if they want. For some odd reason though, they were only ever built in countries like Vietnam and China. And it looks like the education typically includes hard labor.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Wouldn't it be simpler if people just read Marx and made up their own minds?

    It'd definitely be more cost effective.

    What I will say is this: both polarities in this debate are extremes. An individual who is operating from an extremity can't clearly see what's going on, and in my experience, isn't willing to concede that there might be another way of moving forward.

    I don't remember my grandfathers because they both died before I was born. One was a WWI veteran, the other a WWII.

    There was a different sense of responsibility present in the world, but that sense of responsibility came at a cost: the world where my grandfather's lived had clearly defined boundaries not just among sexes, but among races. There were hospitals and medical facilities built specifically for indigenous peoples in Canada. So when my mom was born, my grandmother had to travel 25 minutes outside of the town she lived because the hospital that was in town was for the people who lived on the reservation. This was backwards! But it was the way people wanted it because it supported the division.

    Divisions keep people safe. People find change, and find the aspect of things changing that 'shouldn't' change as incredibly threatening, and for good reason. We are educated to believe that change equals loss.

    But what are we loosing?

    What are we really loosing?

    A code of conduct that supported division, boundaries which limited women from reaching their full potentials as human beings (remember that you don't need to vote thing?), indigenous people not being recognized as legal human beings until the mid 20th century?

    In another thread, I've read it said that my sexual identity is in fact the result of a conspiracy. I'm actually willing to entertain that possibility in order to find out what the truth is.

    But let me ask this: how would the white, heterosexual male in this thread feel if they were told that their identity was in fact manipulated by the powers that be to benefit those powers?

    Because I'm going to suggest that. The good olde days are a result of social engineering to make you more productive soldiers, more productive workers, to keep society in line because anything that deviates will be shut down by all the hard working men in the world and keep everything in line.

    When men were men, and women were feminine, the world was operating under a different control program. So you want to use that program to create a mass shift in how people view each other, create tension, violence, create a situation where people are looking one way while you shift things in your favour? Simple. Make the people who were in the position of strength upset by shifting their power away from them.

    When men were men, and women were feminine, we were in the dark. We were controlled.

    Nothing's changed. Except the baby is crying because it's been suggested that the candy might be removed, or given away. And all the while, nobody is listening to the priest in the pulpit.

    I wonder....why?

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    These Images Show The Disastrous Result Of Chemically Castrating Generations Of Men Which Could Lead To 'The Extinction Of The Human Species'

    By Susan Duclos

    http://allnewspipeline.com/This_Is_T...rating_Men.php




    I could just say "nuff said and be done because a picture speaks more than a thousand words. I could also apologize to readers for the image above, which apparently has become a new "thing" amidst the all out war against men and masculinity by liberals, and the LGBT community along with today's version of feminists, but I won't apologize because it is vitally important that men be aware of the result of decades of feminizing men

    THE WAR AGAINST MEN IS REAL

    We have all seen the "toxic masculinity" articles and stories, where feminists and the LGBT community continuously attempt to push for the idea that "beta males" are more favorable to manly men. As a normal woman, let me assure the gentlemen reading this, nothing is farther from the truth. That is evidenced by the same people that push that nonsensical idea, also refusing to date men that have bought into the concept.

    We have seen stories coming from the UK, where boys can no longer wear shorts, just trousers or "skirts," with feminists claiming that skirts shouldn't be banned but boys should be encouraged to wear female apparel in order to "break down gender stereotypes."



    We have seen fashion houses promoting "men in dresses," and school programs targeting children here in America with drags queens offering children story hours, reading to them, with liberal websites like the Huffington Post claiming these types of kids' programs are something "we all need in our lives."

    Errrr.... No, we don't.

    There is no segment of society more under attack that white Christian males, but the images are the result of a decades old war against men that started with using chemicals to decimate the male population, causing decreased birth rates and the emasculation and feminization of men.

    CHEMICALLY CASTRATING MEN IS PART OF THE DEPOPULATION AGENDA

    It is no secret that the global elites have been pushing a depopulation agenda for decades, from the March 2009 U.N. Population Division policy brief, to prominent world figures blatantly talking about it, but what we do know is there are chemicals that every household uses every single day, that has been part of implementing the depopulation agenda over the course of time.

    Xenoestrogens mimic estrogen and suppresses testosterone.

    Those include Atrazine which is found in 94 percent of the U.S. drinking water, and according to Berkeley Research back in 2010, "wreaks havoc with the sex lives of adult male frogs, emasculating three-quarters of them and turning one in 10 into females."

    Others include but are not limited to; Aspartame (artificial sweetener), Dioxines, Phthalates (found in plastics and vinyl), Organophosphates (pesticides), Estradiol (dairy products). These chemicals and many others used in our daily lives cause a variety of reactions from reducing sperm count, to testicular atrophy and tumors, to producing testosterone, to causing reproductive problems, birth defects and decreasing semen volume.



    THE RESULTS FROM CHEMICALLY CASTRATING A GENERATION OF MEN

    The results can be seen in the statistics available, such as 30 million American men are afflicted with erectile dysfunction or impotence, according to Web MD. The Census Bureau’s March 2016 Current Population Survey shows there are nearly 157 million American males.

    According to Reuters in July 2017, sperm counts in men from America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand have dropped by more than 50 percent in less than 40 years. The lead author of the study, Hagai Levine, calls the results "quite shocking," stating "this is a classic under the radar huge public health problem that is really neglected. He then asserts "eventually we may have a problem and with reproduction in general. It may be the extinction of the human species." (Source)

    Testosterone levels in men have also massively decreased over time, as explained at Body Well USA in October 2016:

    My observations as a clinician have been confirmed by multiple studies. One of the more illuminating studies, the Massachusetts Male Aging Study (MMAS), gathered data on 1,500 randomly selected men in the Boston area in three distinct time periods over 17 years (1987-89, 1995-97, and 2002-04). It measured their total testosterone levels as well as their bioavailable testosterone levels (that is, the testosterone that was actually able to be utilized by the body) . What they found was that both total and bioavailable T levels were decreasing by 1.2% and 1.3% respectively – every year. That’s between 20.4% and 22.1% over the years of the study.

    Another large study, known as The Finnish Study, suggests that the drop in T levels was significant in younger men. A man born in 1970 has 20% less testosterone than his father did at the same age. In other words, a man who’s 46 this year has 20% less testosterone than his father did when he (the father) was 46!

    While there are a number of theories posed as to the cause, as that article states "Many of them center around endocrine disruptors – chemicals that interfere with your body’s hormonal systems. Perhaps it’s one or more of the fifty chemicals introduced into the food supply each week. Researchers have theorized pesticides on crops, mineral deficiencies due to factory farming, lack of sleep, and even cellphone radiation."

    NCBI reported in 2016 that testosterone has become one of the most widely prescribed medications in the USA, increasing five-fold according to 2011 data.



    BOTTOM LINE - MULTI-PRONGED ATTACK AGAINST MEN

    The chemical castration and feminization of men throughout the decades was only one prong of a multi-pronged attack. Once a generation of men were already permanently altered by these everyday chemicals, then came the emotional and mental manipulation, the push for "beta males," the attacks against masculinity by calling it toxic, all in an attempt to convince men affected by the chemical castration that it is "normal" to become more feminine.

    Then came the dresses for men, promoted even within some of the most prominent fashion houses. Then the use of men for cosmetics commercials.

    Now..... lingerie for men.

    The images shown in the article above, are the disastrous result of chemically castrating generations of men.

    http://allnewspipeline.com/This_Is_T...rating_Men.php

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