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Thread: When men were men & women were feminine

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Misogyny could be made a hate crime as MPs vote on banning upskirting

    Misogyny could be treated as a hate crime under new laws banning upskirting that are due to be voted on by MPs.

    Labour MP Stella Creasy is seeking an amendment to new anti-voyeurism legislation that will make taking unsolicited pictures under someone’s clothing a crime.

    The Voyeurism (Offences) Bill, which has the Prime Minister’s backing in its current form, will close a gap in the law and allow judges to jail offenders for up to two years.

    It is due to go before the Commons on Wednesday.

    Ms Creasy’s amendment states it will “ensure that if the crime is motivated by misogyny then that will be considered by a court as an aggravating factor when considering the seriousness of the crime for the purposes of sentencing”.

    The amended law would allow a sentencing judge to take into account if the offender “demonstrated towards the victim of the offence hostility based on the victim having (or being presumed to have) a particular sex characteristic”.


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/misogyny-m...084351851.html
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  3. Link to Post #162
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    I'd love to do that--except the problem is that the *vast* majority of people who think they know Marx have no clue what they're talking about. So to even go there would require a re-education that would need a thread all it's own.
    You’re so right! Anyone who has any idea of what Marxism dialectics actually are (and I certainly really struggle with that …)
    would know that the term 'cultural Marxism' makes no sense.

    In A Voice from the Mountain's post 73 of this thread, there is an attempt to portray feminism as the outcome of a plot
    to destroy history and tradition in the capitalist West: that's nothing new. ‘Cultural Marxism’ is basically repackaged ‘cultural Bolshevism’
    of the Nazi party. It’s a snarl term used (particularly in the US) to discredit dissenters and progressives who are supposedly
    trying to destroy “the American way of life”.

    But actually, cultural Marxism is a complete fantasy It’s simply propaganda and, as such, it’s not responsible for the spread
    of atheism, of gay rights, of feminism, of socialism etc etc. There isn’t a nasty little group of cultural Marxists - Jewish, of course -
    under the bed, plotting to overthrow the lovely white, straight, Christian culture (even though the likes of the Tea Party and
    Andreas Breivik would like you to think so).

    The fact that, in the 1930s, a very small group of German, left-wing, dissident Marxist social theorists (the Frankfurt School)
    spoke about the harms inherent in capitalism, industrialisation and the commercialisation of culture that takes
    people away from essential human values
    (something I thought most members of PA would agree with) does not
    equate to a wholesale take-over of “Western civilisation” by a group of left-leaning Jews.

    The idea of cultural Marxism as part of an ongoing war against Western society is a spectre that is wheeled out by those of a
    certain mindset to try and explain trends in society. Mention the word “Marxism” and (particularly in the US) you are assured
    of a kneejerk reaction.

    Feminists have been around for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years … feminism has its roots in the activism of real,
    courageous people.

    Pretending that societal change is an ideology forced upon us by a group of sinister thinkers distracts us and confuses us,
    thus allowing inequality and privilege to persist in the form of the status quo. Instead of facing up to inequality and oppression,
    it’s much easier to post extremist material for the shock effect.

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  5. Link to Post #163
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Yeah, back when child-bearing was still considered a social duty, and people were considered oddballs if they didn't want to raise a family
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Taking care of children is one of the most feminine things a woman can do.
    That’s all truly great - if that’s the choice each woman makes. I do wonder, from your writings on this thread, whether
    you consider it is the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own life. We know from history that, in uncertain times,
    men feel the need to tighten their ideological grip on women and reaffirm their perception of the role females should adopt
    (ie the biological role of mother) - and it seems that is what you are doing here. And history also shows the dangers in that.

    The idea that bearing children is a social duty sets alarm bells ringing when considered, for example, in the light of the
    damage inflicted on society in Spain (within living memory) by Fransisco Franco, who imposed strict societal roles on women,
    preparing them to be mothers and educating them in the preservation of femininity.

    Spanish women were told that their ultimate destiny was that of wife and mother, and contraception was banned.
    Their opportunities for any other lifestyle were controlled by law, and it wasn’t until 1978 that the permiso marital -
    a law whereby a wife was prohibited from almost all economic activities, including employment, ownership of property,
    or even travel away from home was abolished.

    Interestingly, in Franco’s Spain, women were blamed for the “reddening” of Spanish society and for the spread of Marxism,
    because they had failed to play their proper role as women.
    The cultural subversives use feminism as their chosen vessel of disruption. Echoes of some claims on this thread …

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  7. Link to Post #164
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Context context context.
    Its no surprise that posts can be misunderstood,

    To give an example.
    Some time ago an Arab with a harem was interviewed and the interviewer went as far as to say, that such a situation was uncivilized.
    The Arab laughed and said perhaps your normality is uncivilized

    You expect one woman, your wife, to be multi functional.
    House keeper, cook, part financial provider, mother to your children, lover and more.

    In my country when a woman's husband dies, she may be taken into a harem with her children.
    The man who has the wealth may perhaps support many women and children and other relatives..

    So what is correct in one situation might not be seen to be in another.

    There does seem to accepted boundaries in most civilizations--ie abuse of children or the vulnerable not acceptable.
    Otherwise what happens between consensual adults is mainly accepted or becoming so---exceptions to every rule of course.
    Not that long ago Homosexuality was a criminal offence in UK.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  9. Link to Post #165
    Canada Avalon Member hermit's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    I'd love to do that--except the problem is that the *vast* majority of people who think they know Marx have no clue what they're talking about. So to even go there would require a re-education that would need a thread all it's own.
    You’re so right! Anyone who has any idea of what Marxism dialectics actually are (and I certainly really struggle with that …)
    would know that the term 'cultural Marxism' makes no sense.

    In A Voice from the Mountain's post 73 of this thread, there is an attempt to portray feminism as the outcome of a plot
    to destroy history and tradition in the capitalist West: that's nothing new. ‘Cultural Marxism’ is basically repackaged ‘cultural Bolshevism’
    of the Nazi party. It’s a snarl term used (particularly in the US) to discredit dissenters and progressives who are supposedly
    trying to destroy “the American way of life”.

    But actually, cultural Marxism is a complete fantasy It’s simply propaganda and, as such, it’s not responsible for the spread
    of atheism, of gay rights, of feminism, of socialism etc etc. There isn’t a nasty little group of cultural Marxists - Jewish, of course -
    under the bed, plotting to overthrow the lovely white, straight, Christian culture (even though the likes of the Tea Party and
    Andreas Breivik would like you to think so).

    The fact that, in the 1930s, a very small group of German, left-wing, dissident Marxist social theorists (the Frankfurt School)
    spoke about the harms inherent in capitalism, industrialisation and the commercialisation of culture that takes
    people away from essential human values
    (something I thought most members of PA would agree with) does not
    equate to a wholesale take-over of “Western civilisation” by a group of left-leaning Jews.

    The idea of cultural Marxism as part of an ongoing war against Western society is a spectre that is wheeled out by those of a
    certain mindset to try and explain trends in society. Mention the word “Marxism” and (particularly in the US) you are assured
    of a kneejerk reaction.

    Feminists have been around for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years … feminism has its roots in the activism of real,
    courageous people.

    Pretending that societal change is an ideology forced upon us by a group of sinister thinkers distracts us and confuses us,
    thus allowing inequality and privilege to persist in the form of the status quo. Instead of facing up to inequality and oppression,
    it’s much easier to post extremist material for the shock effect.
    Then there's the problem of...if Marxism is part of the dialectic, what happens when Marxism has been ground up and pushed through? Does the theory then become irrelevant because it's been moved on by a better theory?


    That...and 99.99% of people today who claim to be Marxists have no clue about the definitions of capitalism, and automatically assume that the western world currently lives under a capitalist model.

    WRONG. :D


    ---


    That would be like assuming you understand the nuances of queer identity based on biblical and social interpretation that's based on a model thoroughly engaged by the Military Industrial Complex to help manipulate large populations...but....instead of going there, let's watch more reality tv instead.... *duck emoji duck emoji duck emoji*

    :D

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  11. Link to Post #166
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    The Supreme Court in India has decriminalised consensual gay sex. 'Bout time for the world's biggest 'democracy'.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...g/65694784.cms

    "Justice Indu Malhotra says history owes an apology to members of LGBT community and their families for ostracisation
    and persecution they faced because of society's ignorance that homosexuality is a natural trait; its penal suppression
    infringes a host of fundamental rights.

    "The Supreme Court terms sexual orientation as biological phenomenon, and says any discrimination on this grounds
    is violative of fundamental rights."

    One more down ... but there are still more than 70 countries where homosexuality it illegal
    (and 10 where it's punishable by death! )
    Last edited by loungelizard; 6th September 2018 at 14:24.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    loungelizard - hermit - I am breathing a sigh of relief since you posted on this thread.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Its good to have a space where one can freely express one self
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  17. Link to Post #169
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Malaysian PM says caning of lesbians counter to 'compassion of Islam

    UALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad on Thursday denounced the caning of two Muslim women for attempting lesbian sex, a sentence that sparked outrage and raised fears about the treatment of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community.

    The women had pleaded guilty to charges under Islamic laws forbidding lesbian sex. They were caned on Monday in front of dozens of people at a sharia court in Terengganu, a conservative state in the east, prompting an outcry from human rights activists, who described the punishment as torture.

    Mahathir's government has appeared divided about the LGBT community, while the premier himself had been silent on the caning and recent attacks on transgender people and marginalized groups in the Muslim-majority country.

    In a video posted on his Twitter account, Mahathir said the caning "did not reflect the justice or compassion of Islam".

    It was the women's first offence, he said, which warranted a lighter sentence, such as counseling.

    "This gives a bad impression of Islam," the 93-year-old leader said. "It is important that we show Islam is not a cruel religion that likes to impose harsh sentences to humiliate others."

    The LGBT community is routinely persecuted in Malaysia, where it is seen as a threat to conservative values.

    Mahathir's government swept into power in May after campaigning on a reform agenda, but has been unconvincing in its handling of matters relating to race, religion and minorities in the multi-racial country.

    The caning followed a series of incidents in recent weeks that civil rights groups say illustrate growing hostility against gay and transgender people.

    Last month, a gay bar in Kuala Lumpur was raided by police and religious enforcement officials, while a transgender woman was beaten up by a group of assailants in Seremban, near the capital.

    The minister in charge of Islamic affairs also came under fire, including from other ruling party lawmakers, after he ordered the removal of portraits of two LGBT activists from an art exhibition.

    Malaysia describes oral and anal sex as against the order of nature. Civil law stipulates jail for up to 20 years, caning and fines for offenders, although enforcement of the law is rare.

    Muslims are also governed by state-level Islamic laws, most of which carry provisions outlawing same-sex acts.

    (Reporting by Rozanna Latiff; editing by Praveen Menon and Nick Macfie)




    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/malaysian-...060842230.html
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  19. Link to Post #170
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Regardless I would suggest that it is in the interest of the human race that Woman and Man with their Children are seen as the hub of family life.
    Exceptions to every rule accepted----- and all forms of partnerships and consensual love making.
    I feel that its important that the traditional family with all its flaws is promoted and supported. (Without excluding others)

    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 8th September 2018 at 07:35.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Keeping it very basic---
    Every Human came about through physical inter action between a man and a woman.
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 9th September 2018 at 22:15.
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)

    THE WAR AGAINST MEN IS REAL

    The chemical castration and...
    That's as far as I got before going into a rage...

    I just skimmed through, but chemical castration? Did I wake up in another universe again? This is just... putrid. Pardon me while I try not to barf.

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    I sincerely, still with love in my heart towards everyone here, find this thread kind of (edit: quite)syrupy. All coated with sugar for a time, a situation, that never was. Or for what some of you think should be, that is, in reality, impossible to achieve and even choking if we were to achieve those should.

    But syrup is what people want, with soap operas, false beliefs, changing history ( yes you are doing precisely this right here), etc. Makes me cringe truly.
    Oh don't cringe.... I'm sorry, but that's just making my laugh and cry all at once. I, for one, am so glad you said so. Because I didn't really notice until you pointed it out!!!

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    Now lets go back to the syrup in order to make YOU GUYS happy.

    Meh, I'm not fond of sugar.

    And for what it's worth? The last couple of posts have made me want to have a stand up and loudly applaud button because the thanks button just doesn't seem enough.
    I'd like to applaud too! I am loving the "sugar" though... because it's helping me to understand.

    I used to have similar views of what "should be" or what I expected to be, but I realized that I was lying to myself. There was a lot of anger. That was the catalyst for change... but just not sure if it was a good change. I calmed down anyway, so that's good

    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    One more down ... but there are still more than 70 countries where homosexuality it illegal
    (and 10 where it's punishable by death! )
    That's just shocking, and I'm so embarrassed. This whole planet is just so ridiculous that it's embarrassing, I had no idea it was this embarrassing...

    Using our love against us seem to be a common theme.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    "Get over it"That's an expression that sometimes fits--
    There is genuine discrimination but a lot of jumping on whatever band wagon that is politically correct at the moment.
    There is a drop in the sperm count just now however that could be brought about by natural causes --if you can call Wi Fi, pesticides etc natural.
    People want to have an enemy out there---not everything is brought about by agenda of "The powers that be" whoever or what ever they may be.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Since you're aware of what discrimination feels like, you have an active and justifiable means to understand how other people feel when they are discriminated against.

    Having that understanding, can you see how the opinions expressed in this thread have been harmful and hurtful to some?

    Would you be willing to consider an apology give that you have an immediate understanding of what prejudice feels like?

    Can we then, after that, consider ways and means of moving beyond the mode of victim capital?

    Good discussions here!
    cordibus nostris non quiesceret donec requiescat in te

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by hermit (here)
    Since you're aware of what discrimination feels like, you have an active and justifiable means to understand how other people feel when they are discriminated against.

    Having that understanding, can you see how the opinions expressed in this thread have been harmful and hurtful to some?

    Would you be willing to consider an apology give that you have an immediate understanding of what prejudice feels like?

    Can we then, after that, consider ways and means of moving beyond the mode of victim capital?

    Good discussions here!
    I am sorry that some have been hurt by posts on this thread--that certainly was not my intention on starting the thread which has wandered far from the original post and that's fine.
    When people are free to voice their opinions then unfortunately people can feel hurt.

    For me nothing is taken personally but not every one is fortunate enough to understand that.
    Yes I went through a lot of discrimination for various reasons that im not going into here--but it led to suicidal feelings--I had to get over that.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Some time ago an Arab with a harem was interviewed and the interviewer went as far as to say, that such a situation was uncivilized.
    The Arab laughed and said perhaps your normality is uncivilized

    You expect one woman, your wife, to be multi functional.
    House keeper, cook, part financial provider, mother to your children, lover and more.

    In my country when a woman's husband dies, she may be taken into a harem with her children.

    Chris
    That made me laugh! Anyone think to actually ask these women under discussion here what they’d like to do,
    rather than merely assigning them their roles? Do they only have the choice of either domestic goddess or re-homed pet?!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I feel that its important that the traditional family with all its flaws is promoted and supported. (Without excluding others)

    Chris

    Why?
    Given that there are hundreds of different models of “traditional” families in hundreds of cultures
    throughout the world, why do you think that the image of the idealised “traditional” family that we were sold in the
    1950s is so important? (I'm assuming that you're referring to the nuclear family here).

    Of course, the family unit is the building block of any society - children need strong, caring and
    trusted family units - but families can and do take a multitude of forms.

    But ‘Family’ is not a fixed concept: it means different things to different people, and is largely
    dependent on the culture in which we live - and one form can’t be held up as being superior to
    all the others - it’s not as simple as that, unfortunately.

    Personally, I quite like the Mosuo culture! It’s a ‘society without fathers’ on the China/Tibet border -
    The Kingdom of Women - where marriage of any form simply doesn’t exist.
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...never-the-boss

    For me, the form a family takes is irrelevant. Whether the parents are biological, step or adoptive,
    or gay/straight/trans/bi, or the family is nuclear/extended/communal, alloparental, single/polygamous,
    or the parents’s relationship is romantic or arranged really doesn’t matter - and it’s certainly not the gender
    or sexual orientation of the parents that raises a healthy human being.

    All the things that children need - love, nurture, trust, patience, security, understanding, boundaries,
    acceptance, respect, affection, good counsel, compassion, empathy, guidance etc etc etc - can be provided
    by many, many different types of adults in a whole variety of relationships.

    Equally, poverty, uncertainty, instability, absent parenting, conflict, neglect etc etc - all the obstacles that
    harm children - can happen in every type of family you can think of.

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Whatever works.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I am sorry that some have been hurt by posts on this thread--that certainly was not my intention on starting the thread which has wandered far from the original post and that's fine.
    When people are free to voice their opinions then unfortunately people can feel hurt.

    Chris

    Your contributions to this forum are a good example of how to express an opinion simply and without causing pain.
    On the other hand, a few of the posts on this thread go far beyond mere opinions: they may masquerade as opinions but
    are deliberately contrived to cause hurt and to spread division and bigotry.


    There is a massive difference between voicing your opinions and being insulting, hostile and disparaging.
    When someone explains, rationally and politely, why they don’t approve of, for example, same-sex marriage,
    I would respect their opinion.

    But if they try insist that gays are deviants (as one poster here has done) or resort to inflammatory or
    toxic language with the intention of demonising a particular group, they’re not just voicing an opinion.
    They’re using verbal aggression to imply that not everyone in this world has equal rights.

    In fact, the venomous nature of some of the posts here does bring to mind the old adage
    "Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals" :
    A new analysis of implicit bias and explicit sexual orientation statements may help to explain
    the underpinnings of anti-gay bullying and hate crimes


    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...n-homosexuals/

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Whatever works.
    Chris
    And wouldn’t the world be a much happier place if people acted in accordance with those simple words?

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    greybeard (17th September 2018)

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: When men were men & women were feminine

    Loungelizard my signature --all of it including the link more or less covers were I am coming from.

    To be very clear--I think homosexuality is perfectly natural--same sex marriages fine.
    All of that can be alongside what I call traditional family which of course is different for every country.
    It comes back to whatever works.

    Anyone who lived in Scotland in my childhood and teens would see where the first post came from--after the war there was a sense of community caring for each other and respect. Some of our parents had been through the hell of two wars.
    Then the sixties was very free, relaxed and easy but there was a respect for teachers police and authority which does not now seem to be present.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  39. The Following User Says Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Mike (18th September 2018)

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