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Thread: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Alcoholism is hereditary. I have it on both sides of my extended family from both sets of grandparents down to both my parents down to my sister and myself. My father quit drinking in 1987 in his mid 40's. I had my last drink in August 1989 when I was about to turn 21 (I could not have done it without my father....it was a life decision and the best decision I ever made, bar none). Alcoholism destroys families, careers, lives....it is a detriment to the human condition.

    Alcoholics don't take mates...they take hostages.

    Dave - Toronto
    So we need to outlaw it? I enjoy my buzz on good quality booze

    The World's Oldest Alcoholic Drinks

    Rice Mead, Jiahu, China: 7,000 BCE. Just like China holds the record for the world's oldest noodles, it looks like the oldest alcoholic drink known to mankind was also Chinese. ...
    Indian Mead, Rigveda Text, 4,000 BCE. ...
    Hebrew Wine, The Bible, c. ...
    Etruscan Wine, 3,000 BCE. ...
    Babylonian Beer, 2,700 BCE.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Is this just another devide sort of thingy?

    I drink, so I deserve what I get,not worthy of thought, or empathy.

    Do not need either thought or empathy.

    Are these the same major study scholars, who do not study things such as vaccines, glysophate, prescription drugs, gmo crops, flouridated water, chem spaying, adioactivity from cell phones, cell towers, the list can go on forever.

    alcohol consumptoin is all they can come up with as the worst thing there is? as far as cancer causing substances?

    Are you chitting me?

    Think. Critically.

    Not sying its great for you, but come freaking on.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Alcoholism is hereditary. I have it on both sides of my extended family from both sets of grandparents down to both my parents down to my sister and myself. My father quit drinking in 1987 in his mid 40's. I had my last drink in August 1989 when I was about to turn 21 (I could not have done it without my father....it was a life decision and the best decision I ever made, bar none). Alcoholism destroys families, careers, lives....it is a detriment to the human condition.

    Alcoholics don't take mates...they take hostages.

    Dave - Toronto
    Yes Dave, you are fully right. When one has a real hereditary predisposition to addiction, any addiction, consuming in moderation is not possible nor a wise thing to try.
    Staying away from it is the best thing to do.

    Cigarette and alcohol addiction killed my grandpa at the age of 52. Fortunately, I didn't inherit it from him.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Alcoholism is hereditary. I have it on both sides of my extended family from both sets of grandparents down to both my parents down to my sister and myself. My father quit drinking in 1987 in his mid 40's. I had my last drink in August 1989 when I was about to turn 21 (I could not have done it without my father....it was a life decision and the best decision I ever made, bar none). Alcoholism destroys families, careers, lives....it is a detriment to the human condition.

    Alcoholics don't take mates...they take hostages.

    Dave - Toronto

    Yes, alcoholism is 'hereditary' but not, as this implies, genetic. Alcoholics like others with addiction problems have traumas issues and if you have parents with serious traumas you will be traumatised in childhood (or even in the womb) so you will have a predisposition to addiction and learn the alcohol route from your parents.

    This can even apply to 'inherited' diseases since all illness has an emotional element at its roots.

    Yes, we are responsible for ourselves and create our own reality but a child is almost entirely at the mercy of its parents behaviour...

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Just a couple of comments on the consumption of alcohol:

    a) Alcohol is a poison. Your body even produces alcohol as a waste byproduct from the anaerobic cell metabolism when there is a lack of oxygen. So when you get light headed from booze, it's from consuming poison.

    b) Don Juan told Carlos Casteneda that he never consumed alcohol. He said Carlos would also stop consuming it when he realized how harmful it is for his body.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by mpennery (here)
    I think we would all agree humans have been consuming alcohol for a very long time, hundreds and perhaps thousands of years. I bet we’d also agree that cancer was an extremely rare phenomenon until the past 100 years or so. So how can alcohol be a high cause of cancer? Seems to be more to the story.

    Matt
    In the matter of alcohol consumption and cancer it could be multiple factors, one of those being alcohol. If someone is drinking lots of alcohol, very likely their nutrition could be poor and the GI tract may not absorb nutrients as well due to inflammation. Also, the person drinking a lot may be very stressed, and the liver overburdoned which could compromise the immune system.. My observation is that when their are multiple health risks, there comes a time that will be the tipping point when the body can no longer maintain a balance.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Just a couple of comments on the consumption of alcohol:

    a) Alcohol is a poison. Your body even produces alcohol as a waste byproduct from the anaerobic cell metabolism when there is a lack of oxygen. So when you get light headed from booze, it's from consuming poison.

    b) Don Juan told Carlos Casteneda that he never consumed alcohol. He said Carlos would also stop consuming it when he realized how harmful it is for his body.

    I tend to agree with this. I very occasionally drink alcohol and while it can be fun to get a little drunk I always think that people who do this regularly must normally feel pretty bad if they think being drunk is an improvement! I once had a girlfriend who was very psychic and said that alcohol make 'holes in the etheric body'.

    One issue is that drinking too much (particularly for men) is glamorised by the media and even here we make jokes about it being good. It's in the category of 'self harming' along with smoking and while both are socially acceptable and not necessarily that harmful to our health I suspect that most people know that it's better to abstain...

    It's an interesting title 'No healthy level of alcohol consumption' because it starts off with the assumption that many people think that it is healthy when very, very few actually believe that. It is indeed a joke that a person drinks for 'health reasons' - so the 'major study' has concluded something everybody already knows and yet avoids the truth that moderate consumption is quite acceptable and unlikely to really damage your health.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by bobme (here)
    Are these the same major study scholars, who do not study things such as vaccines, glyphosate, prescription drugs, gmo crops, fluoridated water, chem spaying, radioactivity from cell phones, cell towers, the list can go on forever.

    alcohol consumption is all they can come up with as the worst thing there is? as far as cancer causing substances?
    Bobman, you're so right !

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Meanwhile psychedelics are illegal, because they expand and open our eyes & minds...

    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Meanwhile psychedelics are illegal, because they expand and open our eyes & minds...

    Not true. there are many drugs that are said to be good for you. by big pharma.

    And are legal. For everyday consumtion. Ridaline, Prosac, shall I continue?.

    pharmacutical drugs are legal.
    Last edited by bobme; 26th August 2018 at 00:18. Reason: left out a few more points

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Alcohol. Is it the oldest drug we've had? Maybe. Good ol' Adam chuggin' back some mead in the dessicated garden. "Come back Eve baby, let's calm down and talk about it..."

    There's no question booze can release some pretty ugly stuff from inside us. What's strange about the whole "lowers inhibitions" thing we were taught in school is that the inhibitions are still there, but you just don't give a sh-t. You just go on saying the craziest stuff you can think of, 'cause it feels good, at the moment, to do so.

    Does it ruin your health, even a little bit of it? Well if the experts say so then... It's hard to live in this world without a glass of sauvignon blanc or a nice pinot noir once in a while. Hey they didn't teach us to be yogis in this society. They taught us to work hard and earn money. To get on the train in the morning and come home at night. You can meditate on the weekends. (Where am I going with this?)

    Maybe now that grass is becoming legal alcohol will fade out. But I doubt it. Just as I doubt that a little booze ruins your health any more than pesticides, processed food, gasoline, Noise Pollution and so on. (Let's see those studies) Not to mention living your life in a way you'd rather not live it. Which is most of us.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by ichingcarpenter (here)

    The World's Oldest Alcoholic Drinks

    Rice Mead, Jiahu, China: 7,000 BCE. Just like China holds the record for the world's oldest noodles, it looks like the oldest alcoholic drink known to mankind was also Chinese. ...
    Indian Mead, Rigveda Text, 4,000 BCE. ...
    Hebrew Wine, The Bible, c. ...
    Etruscan Wine, 3,000 BCE. ...
    Babylonian Beer, 2,700 BCE.
    These findings are correct and tell us a couple things: it identifies where civilization was settled and producing excess, contrasted to nomads and cereal farmers who produced enough for one crop. So starting in the Yellow River area, then you find enough excess grain and fruit to make wine.

    Secondly as this carried forward it definitely was healthy because most of the water was poisonous. At least into the 1600s in England, you might basically drink beer all day.

    This definitely refers to wine and beer and not to distilled spirits. A clean water supply is kind of a special thing.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by Spellbound (here)
    Alcoholics don't take mates...they take hostages.

    Dave - Toronto

    I'm going to take a very un-conventional and un-appreciated stance....

    Alcoholics, just like everything else in reality; fall with in a "spectrum".

    I'm convinced my father is/was (?) an alcoholic, he doesn't drink very much anymore... in fact it's surprising how little he drinks now compared to when I grew up around him.

    But for a period of around 30 years I think he was a highly functional alcoholic, he was a cheerful fun social drunk. he didn't take hostages, he just drank himself into healthy issues (and many injuries due to..... drunken antics).

    I am not saying that this was a good or bad thing; but I think we need to broaden the scope on this topic so that even those like my father can be assessed. Functional alcoholism (I very well may fall into this category... I feel "it's not detrimental" because I can easily go with out drinking for periods of time, but given the choice I do not.... for instance, I am very intoxicated currently).

    I'm also a highly functional alcohol consumer, I do think there is quite a difference between "drinkers" with a HARD line drawn between women and men (men have a enzyme advantage).

    What I mean to say (it's 450 am and I've been drinking all night, but justified it by taking construction workers out that will help me with my repairs) is that some times polarization and extreme description of problems can block potential recipients of care.

    If that makes any sense. I feel my father would have been helped by this, he is currently in h is 70's and has shakes that make me worry about his health, he used to drink from sun-up to far after sun down... I thought it was kind of fun in my younger years (not experienced "day drinking" ever) but now I wonder what it has done to his over all health in his not-so later years.... I do not follow that pattern, though still consume large amounts.

    maybe i learned?
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
    Where are you?

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Secondly as this carried forward it definitely was healthy because most of the water was poisonous. At least into the 1600s in England, you might basically drink beer all day.

    This definitely refers to wine and beer and not to distilled spirits. A clean water supply is kind of a special thing.
    As you need quite a bit of water to make beer, how did they get clean water to make clean beer?

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Fermentation. In olde days of yore, water tended to be filthy in built-up areas, so folk drank ale or whatever which was devoid of new bacteria. Blimey, imagine being addled all day every day for years...? The brews were weak, but cleaner than water offered locally. Everywhere else relied on fresh spring waters.
    Pity we can’t do that today where we are subjected to fluoridation, chlorine and frack-knows what else... 😡😡😡
    BTW - cheers Target 😉
    Last edited by avid; 26th August 2018 at 16:14.
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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    And as with any kind of substance abuse, besides aggravating any underlying conditions or problems it ALWAYS involves massive denial.

    The excuses and rationalisations for continuing present unsatisfactory behaviour are almost infinite.

    I do not wish to come across as sanctimonious here, but here are some of thing things I have heard from heavy drinkers over the years.

    "Beer is mainly all water anyway"

    "It doesn't affect my work"

    "I don't drink every day"

    "I don't drink in the morning"

    "Other people are judging me and just want me to fail"

    "It brings me out of my shell"

    "I don't get hangovers, so my drinking is moderate"

    "My drinking is not that bad!"

    "It helps me forget bad experiences"

    I'm not knowledgeable about other countries, but many towns and cities in UK become almost like no-go areas during the evenings, almost
    undergoing a 180 degree shift due to anti-social behaviour caused by excessive drinking.

    "Cardiff After Dark" by Polish photographer Macie Jdakowicz gives a hint of how many places become light-hearted as the night wears on, only to later become nasty and squalid

    https://www.maciejdakowicz.com/cardiff-after-dark/
    Last edited by happyuk; 26th August 2018 at 18:05.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    everyone's body is different (and deals with alchohol accordingly) so there are no reliable statistics about how much alchohol one can tolerate (or not)- this is fact;

    there are many who consume much alchohol and remain completely lucid and others who consume only just a bit and are "tippled"-

    we need to deal with many, many variables out there and not with pre-conceived ideas-

    alchohol, tobacco use, etc. in moderation cannot harm anyone:

    anyone thinking a thimble of Schnapps/one glas of red wine/one beer a day/a few cigarettes a day is harmful is when one is not in touch with reality:

    like start with this:

    A) grossly overweight (!!!)

    B) goes 3 + times a week to fast food restaurants

    C) eats much junk food daily and drinks many junk drinks daily

    D) gets no exercise whatsoever

    list is endless-

    but yet this is more tolerable than someone who keeps his/her weight down, slugs a few drinks a day (but remains completely lucid) and puffs a few cigarettes a day and yet does their job exempliarily!!!

    need I state more?

    Larry

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Deleted misinformation.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 27th August 2018 at 04:44.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    Following its initial article The Guardian has published an editorial probably sparked by the huge response the article provoked. Even one of the writers of the report said he would continue to enjoy a drink! No matter where you stand on the question there is no doubt that the spirit of alcohol has a very tight grip on the (mainly) Western psyche both at an individual and collective level. I wonder what this does to us in terms of our decision making, and spiritual and psychological well being


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-good-for-you

    Alcohol is physically bad for you in any quantity; and the more you drink, the worse its health effects. The gigantic report on the subject published last week is unequivocal and authoritative. It makes depressing reading – “sobering” would be the wrong word here, not least because few people are likely to change their behaviour as a result. But it is difficult to argue with the conclusions. The report was based on enormous amounts of data: 28 million people around the world were examined in 592 studies to estimate the health risks, while the prevalence of drinking was estimated using a further 694 studies. Some of the effects of large-scale drinking are really shocking. In Russia, after the failure of Gorbachev’s attempt to curtail the country’s vodka habit, alcohol caused 75% of the deaths of men under 55, at a time when life expectancy was actually falling. Around the world today, alcohol is responsible for 20% of the deaths in the 15 to 49 age group (the researchers include in this an estimate for the proportion of road traffic fatalities cause by drunk driving, though this is extrapolated from US data).


    The variety of ways in which alcohol can kill or damage people comes as a shock. In the poorest countries, its primary means of damage is through TB; as countries grow more developed (and drink, on average, more) the damage shifts to cancer and heart disease. It is the trade-off between cancer and heart disease which leads the researchers to reject the notion that moderate drinking has health benefits compared with abstinence: they find that the increased risk of cancers outweighs the diminished risk of heart disease among middle-aged moderate drinkers.

    Perhaps the most startling single finding is that two-thirds of the world’s population don’t drink at all. They manage without a drug apparently essential to civilised life in the west. The question is whether those of us in the other third should try to emulate them.

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    Default Re: No healthy level of alcohol consumption, says major study

    I do not find a paper with a "click bait title", published in the Lancet, funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, authored by 512 "collaborators" (yes, I counted them), many of whom have close associations with Big Pharma, that studies correlations between large amounts of self-reported and institutionally collected data, without significant considerations of various correlating factors and mechanisms, and that finds vanishingly close to zero correlation between 0 and 1 drink, (see the following chart taken from the Lancet's posting of this article), to be evidence worthy of consideration when I am deciding whether or not to have a glass of wine or beer each day.
    Almost every detail in my long paragraph above is a red flag to me, associated with suspecting that this published study is, like so many others, rubbish.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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