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Thread: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    From http://internationalmensday.com:

    On November 19, International Menís Day celebrates worldwide the positive value men bring to the world, their families and communities. We highlight positive role models and raise awareness of menís well-being.

    ~~~

    So, my question: in 2019 and beyond, what does it mean to be a man?

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    I'll kick off the thread here with some fairly firm views of my own. I'm not expecting everyone to agree! But this really is what I think and feel.
    • Men are physiologically and emotionally different from women, and always have been.
    • But many men are confused these days about their role. They sometimes feel cowed by strong feminists (and by a global agenda to promote feminism).
    • Many can even feel guilty for their feelings of strong male identity and sexuality, which they may be conflicted about and sometimes self-inhibit.
    • That doesn't mean they have to be cigar-chewing, gun-toting Neanderthals. But they can (and should!) still display courage, fight for what's right, defend and protect their families, and be proactive initiators of beneficial change.
    • Women can do all that, too, of course. And men can be sensitive, caring, nurturing, and supportive. There's significant overlap. But the primary roles are still distinct.
    Discuss.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    I think often times this question is asked with too broad of a stroke. Folks start looking at what the world wide implications of men and politics are.

    I'm of the opinion the answer to this question is the answer to the question "what does it mean to be human?".
    Folks need to care for those in their immediate sphere of influence.

    Care for your family and if you are capable of extending that to friends then do so.

    If you can do well to care for your family and friends then extend this to those of acquaintance.

    The first and most important thing you can do though is to take care of your family.


    EDIT-----------------------------------------------------------------------


    Yesterday a friend of mine at work told me a story about her father while she was growing up. When she was fifteen her father began an affair with her neighbor who was a woman with children and a husband.

    This affair went unnoticed until the two decided to run off together without telling anyone. They literally disappeared without sending word of their where about, a week goes by and the husband finally calls my work friend's mom and explains the situation.

    The resulting fall out for the families who were left was catastrophic emotionally and financially. One family was left without a husband and father and the other family was left without a mother and wife. These tales are all too often and common in the USA and the West in general.

    Movies and media constantly try to enable and validate the need to gratify one's own sexual and emotional needs over those of one's family and their needs.

    When folks have taken on the role of father and mother they need to realize that this role should be upheld and maintained.

    This new idea that the role of parent is interchangeable and only based on who the new sex partner is of the parent who has guardianship is utter nonsense.
    Last edited by DNA; 19th November 2018 at 16:11.
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    England Avalon Member Did You See Them's Avatar
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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Not a lot - we just get on with it !
    Ask anyone when "International Men's Day" is and they wont know ! - and likely not give a f*** !
    Being a man and having to work means I haven't got to time to "Celebrate" and sing my own praises !
    Bet there's a Hallmark card coming soon for it though !

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    What a fantastic opportunity to give gifts to my favorite men! Thanks for the heads up

    I don't have a lot to contribute at this time except that I feel men and women think differently, generally speaking.

    The tech world (where I live) has much more men than women in it, and it's always been a bit skewed when it comes to stereotyping. I'm guilty of stereotyping as well, because I strongly feel that men are more "apt" to have computer programming skills and/or problem solving skills which are much better than women. That's not to say women can't be good at programming and problem solving, it's just not the norm. The sad thing is, if I had to hire an Admin right now - I'd prefer a male one.

    I first noticed this when I was in school and I tried to teach people basic programming skills - all the ladies I tried to teach could not catch onto the simplest concepts.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Depends from which culture one originates. The ĎWestí seems now to be compromising gender deliberately, even in education. Why?

    Logically, and historically, situations ensured that men provided sustenance and safety, and women procreated and maintained, but this really depends on oneís geographical location.

    As for Ďinternational menís dayí - I bet the voraciously ĎPCí gender-neutral community will be out in force decrying anything and everything which diverts from their social programming. End of.
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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Its a little disingenuous for me to make any presumption about masculinity (as a woman). I am very glad to be female. I would not want to be a man in todayís society. Men appear to be under so much pressure and are rightfully confused about their roles. Society is vilifying naturally male characteristics (or being brainwashed to) and glorifying transgenderism and homosexuality. This is probably a result of in vitro exposure to hormone and endocrine disrupters- or at least the rapid uptick in prevalence. A warning to the controllers creating this Brave New Nightmare and the # nuts promoting this - be very careful. What is this world going to look like in 50 years when real men have been marginalized into oblivion? Who will build your homes and protect you? AI? Not likely.
    Last edited by AriG; 19th November 2018 at 17:26. Reason: Stupid autocorrect

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Itís a little disingenuous for me to make any presumption about masculinity (as a woman). I am very glad to be female.
    But then, Ari, you're in a perfect position to have a view: what do women want (of a man)?

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by AriG (here)
    Itís a little disingenuous for me to make any presumption about masculinity (as a woman). I am very glad to be female.
    But then, Ari, you're in a perfect position to have a view: what do women want (of a man)?
    like men, weíre all individuals but I can tell you what I want and generally receive:

    Kindness, Intelligence, sense of humor, possibility thinker, open mind, friend and partner.

    Iím ok with household traditional gender roles because I think it works. Iím not ok with inequality in other venues such as a workplace.

    The one thing that gets my husband and I into debate is that although heís a good listener- when I tell him about a problem I am having. He always wants to fix it. Thatís not what I want. I just want his ear. And that is traditionally a male response- the white horse syndrome. So I try to accept it because as I always expect him to read my mind and know what I want, lol,there may be a day when I need him to ride that horse.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    What it means to be a man;
    self reliant
    self sufficient
    individual responsibility (own it )

    When you decide to bring another into this world, it is no longer about you it's about them. That means you endure what ever is dished out to see them thru.

    I worked a large auto manufacturing plant (Toyota ) 7,000 people, being taken for granted was the norm,let alone the billies in control. Some around me would complain and hate their treatment by the company, they had families and would put themselves jeopardy of losing their jobs because could not get pass themselves, forgetting their families relied on them, for medical, food, and shelter.

    I had a young person ask me right before I retired,(30 yrs) how did you make it thru all this, I said that i learned to endure and always keep my goal (duty ) in mind, and I didn't let it penetrate me .

    Me not being a bible scholar he quoted me the following: From Romans 5:

    Know that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, brings about character; and character brings about hope . I've never forgot that quote.

    I think that's what it is to be a man .. others come first ...
    Last edited by ramus; 19th November 2018 at 18:22.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    AriG, you hit the nail on the head with the above post. My boyfriend/fiance/partner has a hard time when I begin to voice frustrations or explain how I feel about certain things. He hears me "complaining" when nothing could be further from the truth. I simply need to express what's going on so I can sort through it. He hears me demanding a solution when all I want is an ear, just as you said.

    He is very masculine. Thank God. Why would I want to be with someone like me; feminine?

    What does it mean to be a man? It means to love women because they are different, to be kind, generous, strong, caring, a good provider, steady, intelligent, have a sense of humor and above all to lay on the couch and watch football while dropping assorted snack foods all over himself, the couch and the floor.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Competency
    Responsibility
    Confidence
    Courageousness



    Pick up a load!

    Quote Posted by DNA
    Movies and media constantly try to enable and validate the need to gratify one's own sexual and emotional needs over those of one's family and their needs.
    There is a cultural undermining of Men and Women, aimed at destroying the family structure... Divide and conquer at all levels it seems.

    Quote Posted by AriG
    The one thing that gets my husband and I into debate is that although heís a good listener- when I tell him about a problem I am having. He always wants to fix it. Thatís not what I want. I just want his ear. And that is traditionally a male response- the white horse syndrome. So I try to accept it because as I always expect him to read my mind and know what I want, lol,there may be a day when I need him to ride that horse.
    I think you meant white knight?

    I disagree, it's how our brains are wired... problems need solving, not necessarily due to some drive to be a savior.
    Last edited by TargeT; 19th November 2018 at 18:39.
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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    and above all to lay on the couch and watch football while dropping assorted snack foods all over himself, the couch and the floor.
    Absolutely hilarious!!! Luckily I donít have that particular problem-more like runs the table saw and leaves piles of sawdust all over the barn!

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    What does it mean to be a man? This is open to interpretation.

    In my experience being a man comes naturally. It's not something that has to be thought about or examined. A bird doesn't think about flying it just spreads its wings and flies. If someone has to think about their masculinity then I'd imagine they are a young teen or maybe they have sexuality issues (not saying that's a bad thing, is what it is and I respect you as long as you respect me).

    My answer is standard in some ways: I can be an alpha, there are no such things as 'problems,' just an itemized list of goals to accomplish. Boarding up windows and evacuating for a hurricane isn't stressful, it weighs on my mind about as much as what I'm gonna cook for the Jags game (when they ultimately lose on Sunday grrrr). I am a leader and I shine when **** hits the fan. I wanna say I was raised old school, but I'm 33. I say this though because I was brought up in the days of 'sticks and stones,' 'walk it off,' 'you only got your bell rang,' etc. I was raised with grit. When life knocks you down, grit gets you back up and faith keeps you going.

    My non typical answer is I also know my role, and I try to learn from other folks (males and females) who I consider are superior to me in something I show interest in. If you have knowledge I just listen, if I open my mouth it's to ask questions. I'm very much a renaissance man so I'm more often than not on the quiet side. It's cause I'm listening. I try to surround myself with smart people that bring something to the table.

    I'm also into things that aren't 'billy badass' alpha male stuff. I do a bit of gardening, I think meditation is the answer to all of lifes problems, I like to read, I'm an animal lover to the nth degree and I give to charity.

    Some of these things (as mentioned in another post) just come down to being a powerful human. However I do believe in the standard separation of men from women when it comes to physicality, aggression and (sometimes) drive. I think this is natural, healthy, and is expressed in 95% of other mammals as well. It's not to say men are superior, we're just different and have different traits.
    Last edited by Strat; 19th November 2018 at 23:36. Reason: grammar
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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Haven't you heard? There are no differences between men and women. We are all equal, not just in the eyes of the law but in every sense. To be a man means the same thing as to be a woman. A women wants to be a combat soldier. Sure thing, no worries. A man wants to stay home and raise the kids while the woman wants to go to work and bring home the bacon. Ok. Go for it. A girl wants to be a Boy Scout and a boy a Girl Scout. Have at it.

    If a man wants to use the women's room or a woman the men's room, who is to say "no?" Thanks to modern science and medical procedures, a man can physically become a woman and vice versa. Heck, just identify as the other sex-- no problem.

    To be a woman today means to keep your mouth shut, borrow money, pay usury and your taxes and don't make any waves. Same for a man.

    Hell there are often times anymore when it's hard to tell if a person is a man or a woman. A boy or a girl. That was not an issue when I was growing up, unless it was a baby. That's where blue and pink came in. Not anymore.

    A man (and a woman) should:

    Bend, but not break.
    Be understanding and tolerant, but not be easily trifled or messed with.
    Abhor violence, but defend himself and his loved ones to the death.
    Have an abundance mentality and share, not a scarcity mentality and horde.
    Love not hate.
    Respect all things, people and places.
    Be peaceful and at peace as much as possible under all circumstances.
    Think and learn.
    Speak less and listen more.
    Read and write.
    Walk your talk and exercise integrity at all times in all things.
    And so on.

    I know what I am. What are you?

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    What a fantastic opportunity to give gifts to my favorite men! Thanks for the heads up

    I don't have a lot to contribute at this time except that I feel men and women think differently, generally speaking.

    The tech world (where I live) has much more men than women in it, and it's always been a bit skewed when it comes to stereotyping. I'm guilty of stereotyping as well, because I strongly feel that men are more "apt" to have computer programming skills and/or problem solving skills which are much better than women. That's not to say women can't be good at programming and problem solving, it's just not the norm. The sad thing is, if I had to hire an Admin right now - I'd prefer a male one.

    I first noticed this when I was in school and I tried to teach people basic programming skills - all the ladies I tried to teach could not catch onto the simplest concepts.
    This is not my experience at all, but hey, I respect yours. The women I have seen do get basic concepts, and they are as savvy about computer than their male counterpart, at least the young ones, and you are young Petra, how come you noticed what you did?

    I have the taste to tease you - oh! Newfoundland!! just kidding,

    with love

    Flash - like all Montrealers, men and women, I cannot drive properly anyhow (our reputation, deserved I must say). And yes, we eat frog legs and escargots (snails).

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Happy nice men day to all avalon male members. I love to have men around who can stand up to whom they are, like most of you here.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    Off the cuff --

    Being a man means being whatever I am - you are -- as a man. Period.

    There are no hard and fast rules. But being a man is not the same as being a woman. Things overlap of course, but we're not the same biologically and that should be honored.

    Speaking of honoring -- I honor my father, who often struggled to support his family in the way he sought for them, with the opportunities he didn't experience. It wasn't easy for him, and I'm sure many, many men have felt similarly. As an adult, I wrote him a letter, telling him I finally understood, a little, of what he went through.

    As women approach earning equality with men -- in some areas they're earning (and being hired) more than men -- let's not forget the strength of the male. It's not just about earning power or "providing." What a man provides is not and shouldn't be just money. The male energy might not be in favor lately but that's the energy that opened up mountains so the trains could pass through. And that's the energy that held you when you were frightened, also.

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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    I didn't know this was a "day"!

    These types of questions are important as they inspire thought and deeper inquiry. They are also rhetorical in that there is no fixed answer.
    Compared to the last century, public, personal, work and home roles for men and women have changed. Due to the rise of major social movements like Feminism, Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Disability, there are more choices available for both sexes and thus more fluidity in terms of what it means to be a man.
    The same question can be applied to women, of course.
    "What does it mean to be a woman?"

    I don't think there is a clear answer nor do I think there is a clear definition of feminism either--there are many varying ideologies within this movement also.
    I subscribe to Germaine Greer's form of Feminism (liberation feminism not equality feminism). How can men and women be equal having physiological differences?
    I wouldn't wish to take on the roles men play in the corporate sector nor the army, navy, airforce, financial institutions.

    So, what does it mean to be a man?
    I would say:
    A ready willingness to love and respect yourself
    A ready willingness to be strong, to be vulnerable, to be open to change
    A ready willingness to respect those who are physiologically different to you

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    Avalon Member meeradas's Avatar
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    Default Re: 19 November is International Men's Day. But what does it mean to be a man?

    I'll never find out.

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