Your Soul's Pre-Birth Plan

[greybeard]

Without dismissing anything.

Im all for keeping it simple.
I have an investigative mind and looked at all manner of ways of evolving spiritually over the years.
Having experienced all the pain and suffering that most go through one way or another.
My hell was the worst because it happened to me.

Yet I ignored what the enlightened were saying--The Buddha "Enlightenment, the way out of misery"
Eckhart Tolle ---a life of misery leading to thoughts of suicide then awakening happened.
He realized that the thought, are there two of us me and the voice in the head--non-duality followed.

The peace that passes all understanding as pointed to by Jesus.

For me its not so much why or how we got into duality and the cycle of reincarnation but how to get out of it?

Again, every Self realized that I have listened to has said Enlightenment is the way out of duality and the cycle of reincarnation

That's it.
Now there may be different ways of realizing the Truth but its up to the seeming individual to find what suits them.

The initial post is the authors way of awakening.
If you go all the way through the video you will see the author Robert Schwartz, asked about his view of awakening.

Chris

[lake]

Posted by SudiMaharaj (here)
EXACTLY... Science is a thing most people ignore when it comes to Spirituality...
Newton Brought the Science to Spirituality, and his reports makes all these guys look and sound like Clowns.

So first....Sudi where are your thoughts concerning this post of yours?

You state EXACTLY....but quote no reference! Please enlighten me, thanks

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From my reading of this thread....we have these possibilities:

This is a realm of learning....a school which we, as individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls' agree to enter and have 'teachers' who help us.

This is a game realm, an entertainment, in which we as individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls' agree to enter....for reasons as yet to be defined (unless it is boredom).

This realm is a womb.... in which potential 'candidates', which may become individual, eternal and indivisible 'soul' are created by those who already are.

This is a realm of 'enlightenment', within which it is required for the initiants, who already are individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls'.... to glean via gurus pre-described knowledge in order to advance to become individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls'.

This is a realm of slavery....in to which you, an individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls', have been forcibly put and are held against your will....so you have no will here.

This realm is a farm....and you, the individual, eternal and indivisible 'soul', are the food.


Now looking at the fundamental, underlying 'nature' of this realm....what do you consider to be closer to a truth????

Or do you prefer the child's bedtime story????




Hold up, stop the train....we may have another passenger?

SudiMahara....Is your post stating that the religion of Science has caused this realm and that we are nothing more than zeros and ones on some computer hard drive?

[lake]

Oh dog I am such an impatient little puppy lol

Ok.......there is one more possibility, which I hoped another would state?

This realm is the battlefield....between good and evil....and you the individual, eternal and indivisible 'souls' are both the warriors and the eventual victor's treasure!

Now theres some apples!

[greybeard]

Yes lake a battle field until the thought that I have to fight it, that I have to take sides, is transcended.
Good and evil different sides of the one coin--winners and looser
Suffering and release.
All subject and object.
Enlightenment is an egoless way of being, so compassion and unconditional love are there without the seeming opposites without judgment--no agenda.
The illusion of separation is seen through.

Chris

[Mike]

I think this life is a game, in many ways. My understanding is that "god" is only aware of "his" greatness conceptually while in a state of oneness. "he" needs duality to turn that concept into experience. "he" needs relativity. relativity, or duality, is the game. therefore, if we all became enlightened at once, the game would cease to exist and god would go back to being pretty bored again. duality is the only game in town. occasionally we get sick of the game, and endeavor to become enlightened..to become aware of our oneness. but then, enlightenment becomes boring, and we return to duality. it's an ebb and flow, i think...the breathing in and breathing out of god.

we've agreed to it. it's not alien slight of hand, or recycled souls trapped on the moon by greys, or whatever(show me the book where a professional hypnotist regresses hundreds of people who all tell this ridiculous story). i'm not entirely certain - no one is - but I'm close to being certain. why? because thousands upon thousands of people have testified to having an in between life experience, and they all basically describe the same bloody things, that's why

what are these things? well, theyre all listed in the original video: (getting back on topic here)
- you die, you see a light, you go thru the light (...and no, you don't merge with the oneness here), you meet family and friends that have passed, hang out, re-acclimate to the surroundings etc..

- you watch your previous life and feel all the feelings you caused others to feel, both good and bad. the guides and wise elders that watch along with you don't judge you...you judge yourself.

- when the time is ripe for a return, you begin to plan it out with the help of your guides and elders. they make suggestions, but you do not have to agree to them. it's all entirely up to you.

- you decide upon various lessons you need to learn (or perhaps 'remember' is the correct word to use here) all based on your actions(i.e.karma) of your previous life

- these lessons often involve great challenges, which are designed into the plan

..and so forth.

I'm sure there are others who have had NDE's and had totally different experiences - and they are just as valid as the ones described! - but i'd argue that they are the exceptions to the rule.

i mean, how many more thousands of people need to come forward with their regression stories - that describe the same exact thing - before we begin to say, hey ya know what, that might be true..?

P.S. Please stay on topic guys! THX

[greybeard]

Yes Mike but the topic is not that clear
Why a Pre-Birth Plan?
Evolution of the spirit to know what?
Is that It?
Awakening is that enlightenment?
If so I have stuck more or less to the reason for a Pre-Birth Plan
If its not enlightenment why the plan, what reason?

I can see if awakening has nothing to do with enlightenment some posters may think I have not stuck to the essence of the first post.

I think you can see my dilemma Mike.
Anyway bed calls.
Good night.
Chris.

[onawah]

If I may, Chris, I would like to suggest that you might consider posting your views on enlightenment, awakening, etc. which I think most of us know by now, on your own thread about enlightenment.

Then, if you think your posts about awakening and enlightenment and what your favorite teachers say about that have relevance to the discussion here, you could provide us with the link to that post so we can read it if we choose to from your own thread.

It seems clear that your views are based on the accepted teachings of those who you consider to be authorities.

And it seems that often, when someone starts a thread on a spiritual subject, attempting to explore from a different perspective than the traditional one that you adhere to, you feel it necessary to keep the discussion more "in line" by imposing the views that you consider to be correct, because they come from generally accepted teachers which you respect.

I wonder if you realize how consistently you have been doing that?

Those conservative views may not actually be very timely or relevant for other discussions, which are not about the teachings of the "Masters" so much as newer information based on more personal, individual experiencing, and more current, original theories about spirituality in today's world, which is changing so very rapidly.
That being the case, I think some of us feel that we need newer approaches.

Such newer information may include experiences with ETs or different-dimensional beings, or other subjects which the more accepted teachings seldom address if ever, and perhaps would have been censored if they had.

I think that spiritual teachings are as prone as any other to be subject to what may seem to some (myself included) as stale, hidebound formulas that are actually ineffectual for many of us now because there is no room in them for exploring individual, personal experiences that humanity is going through TODAY, and which may need fresher examination in order to be understood, and for us to be able to arrive at more timely and therefore relevant ways of regarding them.

I think you operate mainly from your throat chakra, which is characterized by the color blue.

It is a conservative perspective, certainly respectable, and primarily the drive of devotion, valuing that which is time honored and ancient.

But I think many Avalon members are trying to see things with fresh eyes, to create a totally NEW paradigm, trying to explore the NOW, and things that were previously UNknown, and so there is a push-pull feeling on the threads where the old and the new and the known are competing.

It doesn't always lead to productive discussions, and often ends up with the death of an interesting thread because people just get tired of the fight.

Thank you for taking this suggestion into consideration.

Posted by greybeard (here)
Yes Mike but the topic is not that clear
Why a Pre-Birth Plan?
Evolution of the spirit to know what?
Is that It?
Awakening is that enlightenment?
If so I have stuck more or less to the reason for a Pre-Birth Plan
If its not enlightenment why the plan, what reason?

I can see if awakening has nothing to do with enlightenment some posters may think I have not stuck to the essence of the first post.

I think you can see my dilemma Mike.
Anyway bed calls.
Good night.
Chris.

[onawah]

It's uncanny how the astrologer Ang Stoic seems so often to pick up on themes which I am focusing on at the particular times when he is making his forecasts. See: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1269468

...And in this case, the basic themes that have been explored in this thread.
Here, he mentions soul contracts:
"The period between eclipses acts as a kind of spiritual transit-zone, where souls are moving through, as if passing through a kind of spiritual ‘central-station’, interchanging train journeys, where the spirit of lovers part and unite, friends and loved ones bid their farewells, tie off loose ends, and others usher their way through into into brand new soul-contacts."

...And narcissism (typified by "gaslighting"): "I watched the old film ‘Gaslight’ (1944) on the weekend, about a woman whose husband slowly manipulates her into believing that she is going insane. The term ‘gaslighting’ is taken from this film. Same sort of thing as what many of us had to grow up with – manipulation through secrets, incomplete information, lies and denials about our true state of our being."

And so onto this (continuation)...about our fabricated history and resulting skewed reality:
"Our thatched, highly biased presentations of history and science seem contrived and curiously inadequate to explain (after all) this cruelty and enslavement our species has had to endure. There is no justification for it, but there seems to be no effort to address it either. So it sits within our collective memories as unresolved trauma, and like a spicy meal, keeps repeating on us."

...An issue which has been repeatedly coming up for me lately, as expressed in this thread and also in the Divine Feminine thread at: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...e-New-Paradigm
(where I include the way in which this false paradigm is explained in the Wingmakers material, which I've been finding to be very helpful just now)
...About how it's now or never that we burst our way out of that confining false paradigm

(from Ang Stoic):
"As we (humans) begin to dig deeper about ourselves, we suspect more and more that this bogus structure, indoctrinated into us by the ‘culture’ (parents, teachers, preachers etc.) in order to preserve us into ‘healthy’, tax-paying ‘citizens’ is nothing more than a confinement into an order that isn’t really that orderly at all. In a nutshell, we will learn to transcend all this, soon & fast… or die in a boxed-in, oppressive system that takes ever more but gives increasingly less and less. You can do this now, so quit stalling."

And finally:
"These are not ‘normal’ times at all, In spite of all efforts to ‘hypernormalise’ the obscene, the absurd and the outright ridiculous, just know that everything – your whole conception of ‘truth’ is teetering on the last few moments. Nothing rests on our ‘history’. Our traditional structures, customs, laws and cultured ways of life simply will not stand (very soon). Nothing is ‘safe’, because that was all just a well-crafted illusion anyway. Same applies for the last few minutes, if what you’re basing your reality upon is an expectation or belief that we are heading down a linear destination.

"The road ahead is filled with a myriad of choices, illuminated by an intelligence we have never before had the privilege to enjoy. Nobody has the power to mess with the direction guided to us by our inner compass. Nobody has the power to impress or impose images or truths that don’t sit well with our inner guide. It is our duty and spiritual imperative to make this clear, as immediately as possible, or suffer the irritations this creates upon our nervous system.
As you sit this week, observe how you see things differently now.
And since you do, be sure to act differently. Action is needed to build up momentum – whether you feel you are in complete freedom or stuck in the prism of somebody else’s devices."

Is anybody else feeling themselves to be at these kinds of crossroads?
At least, even in the face of things breaking down and barely showing signs of new, stable formations, there are still patterns emerging and dots connecting, but in very new patterns and forms.
Though, all in all, surprisingly, it feels to me not so much chaotic, as much more spacious.

[greybeard]

Hi onawah
I accept what you say..
I have mentioned astrology on this thread and Mike in his post no 165 has said ist not about aliens
Quote
"we've agreed to it. it's not alien slight of hand, or recycled souls trapped on the moon by greys, or whatever(show me the book where a professional hypnotist regresses hundreds of people who all tell this ridiculous story). i'm not entirely certain - no one is - but I'm close to being certain. why? because thousands upon thousands of people have testified to having an in between life experience, and they all basically describe the same bloody things, that's why"

onawah I think we both operate partly out of throat chakra--your quite vocal too--your posts being longer than mine on the whole.
I accept im single minded as I see that topic as being the saving of human race.
The energy of those Self-realized lift the collective.
This would seem to be the best time for pursuing spiritual awakening.
Many hundreds of awakeing people interviewed on Buddha at the Gas Pump, so very relevant to now.
Many with the virtues mentioned in the opening post.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnl...NiFlTWFb0sEUDg

Anyway I admit because of a change in circumstances I am posting more than usual to pass time.
Have a nice day.

Chris

[greybeard]

Mike oneness does not obliterate family pet dogs etc--just seen as the same energy with different functions.
The left hand is different from the right bu the same body.
Quite a few who had NDE realized that they were of "god"
Its a complex subject tho.
Its a great thread thanks for starting it.
As suggested by onawah one link to a teacher who has many followers here and now.
I Am That! ~ A MUST SEE FOR AWAKENING from Sri Mooji Baba

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1267234

Chris

[onawah]

It occurs to me that I may have actually been unintentionally taking this thread off topic myself, because I am not wholly convinced that our between-lifetime experiences are all that they appear to be.
For that matter, in view of the many surprising discoveries that we have made about ETs and how they are interfacing and interfering with our reality,not to mention structures which appear to be unnatural and not made by us on the Moon, I am still of the opinion that all my former cherished opinions about such subjects may be shattered at some point, if the truth is ever disclosed, and proves to be different than commonly supposed.
So perhaps I should take my own suggestion, and stick to my own thread about the Divine Feminine and the New Paradigm, which is accommodating to speculation along those lines.
Apologies if I've detracted from the discussion here.
...on whatever the topic is now, which Mike will have to decide!

[XelNaga]

Hi samildamach,


IIRC, what you speak about here was mentioned by Ra in The Law of One. He/it said that one soul can incarnate in as many bodies as it wants, but only "older" (meaning more experienced souls) do it, because the more bodies you incarnate into, the "less energy" will those bodies posses, something along those lines. He/it also says that not one soul ever incarnates 100% of itself in the body, as that would make it to powerful, almost Godlike. And IIRC, that part of the soul that isn't incarnated is what we call higher self. I don't know if any of it is true or not, of course, but it sounds plausible and interesting, at least to me.

Kind regards friend..

[greybeard]

From Heart Math news letter

"Raising Our Vibration in the New Year
It’s Time for a Reset

The start of a new year is often a time for a personal reset. With the rise in political and economic extremism we are seeing throughout the world, many are feeling it’s also time for a collective reset. More and more people are realizing that working together with kindness and compassion are essential missing pieces for resetting the current trajectory towards separation and division.

It’s obvious that we cannot create solutions from the same level of consciousness that’s creating the problems. Raising our consciousness for drawing in effective solutions starts with lifting our personal vibration."

https://www.heartmath.com/webinars/h...m_medium=email

Think this is in line with spirit of the opening post.
Chris

[DNA]

I simplify whenever possible.

Getting lost in abstract concepts is a waste of time for me.

Yes, you have a soul plan when you incarnate, and part of that plan is choosing your level of difficulty for this lifetime.

The goal of this life is not to be a sage gazing at astral entities while living in a cave and subsisting on frogs and crayfish.

The goal of this life is to endure the hammer blows of incarnation and to exist as your raw state is transformed into something more.



Sometimes you find a source of information that is so good it puts you in disbelief that more folks are not aware of it and or digging it.

The Michael Teachings is one of those sources but be forewarned.

I looked for a YouTube video that would break down these concepts into something I felt was acceptable and I could not find anything I liked.

The Michael Teachings is a no non-sense stream of information, brought about with very little pretense or need to act holier than thou.



I've thought about doing a video on the Michael Teachings with a bottle of Jack Daniels in one hand and a ciggerrete in the other delivering the info with a Bill Hicks apparoach which is how I felt the entity came across to me.

Instead every Youtube video I watched on the subject was delivered in falsetto with folks attempting to make me believe they are going into trance and channelling this entity.

Make no mistake, this Michael dude said he would never channel through anyone other than the group he was working with in the seventies, and I think he said all he needed to say in the seventies so pay heed and give caution to modern day baffoons who say they are channelling this person.

If you are interested in the original books you should only get those by this specific author, who was the only woman given access to the messages to the original group.

[Flash]

ok corrected, no need for my post

[petra]

Posted by Mike (here)
- you die, you see a light, you go thru the light (...and no, you don't merge with the oneness here), you meet family and friends that have passed, hang out, re-acclimate to the surroundings etc..

- you watch your previous life and feel all the feelings you caused others to feel, both good and bad. the guides and wise elders that watch along with you don't judge you...you judge yourself.

- when the time is ripe for a return, you begin to plan it out with the help of your guides and elders. they make suggestions, but you do not have to agree to them. it's all entirely up to you.

- you decide upon various lessons you need to learn (or perhaps 'remember' is the correct word to use here) all based on your actions(i.e.karma) of your previous life

- these lessons often involve great challenges, which are designed into the plan

That sounds so sneaky and tricky, I'm sorry. This is how it looks through cynical eyes:

- You get tricked into going into the light by things that look like your relatives but are (obviously) not...
- You judge yourself based off propaganda, and feelings that may or may not be real...
- You create up your own lesson plan based off the propaganda, without having any experience whatsoever in creating lesson plans
- End result? Lessons learned, but not the lessons you intended....
- Lather, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: I think my cynicism is a lot to do with not wanting to be God or play God. I'd really rather hire a professional to do my lesson plan for me. If God's not available, I'd let Jesus do it I suppose :/

[Joe Akulis]

Posted by Caliban (here)
Council of wise souls. Okay. But don't you, after a while, ask yourself, "who are these authorities in my life telling me what to do, what's best for me, what I must do?" You ask that in school, you ask that later at work, and you go through life wondering why others have authority over you. I think most of us do. With your parents, you realize (if they're fairly normal), "oh, they care for me and are just looking out for my best interests, they want to protect me, help me perhaps avoid some of the mistakes they made."

So is that what these wise guides are like? Like loving parents, helping us design a plan? Yes, you should go to college, maybe study law, wait to get married and have kids, etc... But the metaphor doesn't quite work. WHO ARE THESE WISE SPIRITS?? And why should we listen to them as they design a plan for us to perhaps suffer (a lot) and perhaps experience a few joys here and there and perhaps help some other souls there and there and perhaps hurt some along the way?

After hitting a bunch of different books and websites on the subject, my take on these Elders has changed from the initial impresions I got with the Newton books, which is: They tell you what you're gonna do next.

The impression I now have is something that works well with the analogy of Earth as a school. In the early incarnations, you don't really have enough of a grasp of the bigger picture to determine what to do next, by yourself. So they are trusted to act as guidance counselors as much as is necessary.

Then later on, the more experience you gain, the more you are able to determine your own course and these elders step into the background and may only come into play if we seek out their counsel... Just an opinion tho.

[Joe Akulis]

Something that hasn't been hit much yet in regards to a birth plan: There's at least one example in the Cayce material of someone who incarnated a bunch of times as the same gender and, thanks to biology, ended up with a personality that leaned too far one way, I guess would be one way to say it.

So eventually they had to come back as the opposite gender to try to re-balance some aspects of their personality. Needless to say, this first incarnation as the opposite gender was not much fun. Many feelings of just being in the wrong body.

I've seen articles in the news that make me think you can have the same thing happen with beliefs. Like having 5 lifetimes as a catholic and then jumping into a lifetime where you are muslim, or vice versa. Seems like there's a pull where sometimes midway through our lives we may just decide to switch beliefs because something just feels right, or feels more like home...

By influencing us through the subconscious, we're not very aware that it's happening. Some times I think so many things here would be easier if we were more aware of that subconscious influence, but then I suppose if we were, it would make it harder to progress. Especially if something from the past would keep you stuck for one reason or another.

[Mike]

Posted by petra (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
- you die, you see a light, you go thru the light (...and no, you don't merge with the oneness here), you meet family and friends that have passed, hang out, re-acclimate to the surroundings etc..

- you watch your previous life and feel all the feelings you caused others to feel, both good and bad. the guides and wise elders that watch along with you don't judge you...you judge yourself.

- when the time is ripe for a return, you begin to plan it out with the help of your guides and elders. they make suggestions, but you do not have to agree to them. it's all entirely up to you.

- you decide upon various lessons you need to learn (or perhaps 'remember' is the correct word to use here) all based on your actions(i.e.karma) of your previous life

- these lessons often involve great challenges, which are designed into the plan

That sounds so sneaky and tricky, I'm sorry. This is how it looks through cynical eyes:

- You get tricked into going into the light by things that look like your relatives but are (obviously) not...
- You judge yourself based off propaganda, and feelings that may or may not be real...
- You create up your own lesson plan based off the propaganda, without having any experience whatsoever in creating lesson plans
- End result? Lessons learned, but not the lessons you intended....
- Lather, rinse, repeat.

EDIT: I think my cynicism is a lot to do with not wanting to be God or play God. I'd really rather hire a professional to do my lesson plan for me. If God's not available, I'd let Jesus do it I suppose :/

Hi Petra, there are quite a few people who feel the same as you. Cynicism, especially in the alternative community, is something I *do* understand!

I consider the possibility of the scenario you described once in a while. But I have no real reason to believe it's true. I haven't read that book where hundreds of people are hypnotically regressed and they all report being lied to, or taken advantage of, or manipulated etc. I just keep seeing books that report countless positive and loving experiences. I'm just following the trail of evidence that's been laid out before me.

I recall John Lear talking about structures on the moon hijacking and recycling souls and so forth. I can't think of anyone else off hand. And in our community, all it takes is one guy to say something like that...and a large group of people will embrace it immediately and completely disregard all the evidence to the contrary(I'm not suggesting you are one of these people).

Oh, and I totally get what you mean about not wanting to play God....i have that same sort of feeling sometimes.

[petra]

Posted by Mike (here)
Hi Petra, there are quite a few people who feel the same as you. Cynicism, especially in the alternative community, is something I *do* understand!

I consider the possibility of the scenario you described once in a while. But I have no real reason to believe it's true. I haven't read that book where hundreds of people are hypnotically regressed and they all report being lied to, or taken advantage of, or manipulated etc. I just keep seeing books that report countless positive and loving experiences. I'm just following the trail of evidence that's been laid out before me.

I recall John Lear talking about structures on the moon hijacking and recycling souls and so forth. I can't think of anyone else off hand. And in our community, all it takes is one guy to say something like that...and a large group of people will embrace it immediately and completely disregard all the evidence to the contrary(I'm not suggesting you are one of these people).

Oh, and I totally get what you mean about not wanting to play God....i have that same sort of feeling sometimes.

My problem (or my soul's problem?) is that I don't want anything, and that alone had me start questioning if I even have a "soul" at all. Well I'm pretty sure that I do, and although I've no idea what i want, I DO have a very good idea of what I don't want.

I've been thinking about it a lot, and I'm actually SO CYNICAL that I feel like God owes me an apology! Pretty arrogant of me, hey? I imagined if God asked me to forgive him (for creating me) would I forgive him? I really don't think I would.

I've got a bone to pick with God. Maybe that's why I don't want to come back here....