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Thread: Turmoil in Venezuela

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    My God Herve, [...]
    Congratulation, 5th: you made it to top troll of the week!


    A few more of those and I'll be happy to comply with members and mods requests to send you on a well earned forum vacation.


    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    5th, if you feel that way then why do you stay? If it was up to me, you'd been G-O-N-E weeks ago.

    At least my comment was amusing - yours is just plain nasty.
    Naw, nasty would be if I said you were: rude, condescending, arrogant, with a side order of holier-than-thou attitude.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    5th, if you feel that way then why do you stay? If it was up to me, you'd been G-O-N-E weeks ago.

    At least my comment was amusing - yours is just plain nasty.
    Excuse me, but why are you so rude to respected members, and wish to cast aspersions on our forum? In fact, why did you join if you are so hyper-critical?
    The love you withhold is the pain that you carry
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...


    Quote It appears Maduro is responsible for Venezuela's condition. He put everybody on the payroll and then the oil price collapsed.
    What's not said, is that the oil price collapse, orchestration and protracted implementation was designed to undermine Venezuela's oil revenues... along with the financial, import/export sanctions imposed on the country and which is detailed in this thread.
    Oh, maybe you're not being paid by Putin because this I agree with!

    However, I think you'll find that oil was forced down to harm Putin, not Venezuela.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    ...

    5th, you missed this:

    Quote
    Chavez was supposed to have been taken out after the staged 9/11 event as one Rockefeller confided to Aaron Russo, who also suspiciously died of an aggressive cancer after he blew the whistle on all this.

    Here's Russo's talk to an interviewer...

    Listen all the way through, it's one of the greatest exposés of the cold, calculated elite mindset you'll see from a first hand encounter and specifically mentions their designs for Venezuela:

    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    I'm only 1:46 in, but want to say something related but off topic.

    I went to renew my license, the day before my birthday, here in the United States. The state of Louisiana.

    I have worked since I was fourteen. Busted my ass.

    In 2013 I got laid off from both my jobs; one at the Tulane University Primate Center and the second waiting tables.

    Fast forward to almost six years later. My license has been suspended because of state taxes I owe.

    What I am saying is not only is the money chipped, but now your freedom is. Non ability to pay taxes is now linked to the ability to drive or not drive, thereby hampering your ability to drive to a job and earn money to pay their taxes. So they can take away more of your freedom.

    Sorry, Herve', but it's all related and I had to relay it.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    It looks like the self-proclaimed, unelected, new president of Venezuela, Juan Guaido is being placed by the USA as a puppet. The rulers of the USA are learning how to take over nations without starting a war. Will they succeed? Here in Ecuador, the president Moreno, has recognized Guaido to be the Venezuelan president as a part of his Trump loving policy. It is totally disgusting to watch.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by wnlight (here)
    It is totally disgusting to watch.
    The Saker, who as usual seems quite well informed in such matters, agrees with you ... with 3900 words of more detail and not so wry humor: The US Aggression Against Venezuela as a Diagnostic Tool.

    Here's his opening paragraph:
    Quote The Neocons never cease to amaze me and their latest stunt with Venezuela falls into this bizarre category of events which are both absolutely unthinkable and simultaneously absolutely predictable. This apparent logical contradiction is the direct result of a worldview and mindset which is, I believe, unique to the Neocons: a mix of imperial hubris and infinite arrogance, a complete lack of decency, a total contempt for the rest of mankind, crass ignorance, a narcissist/sociopath’s inability to have any kind of empathy or imagine another guy’s reaction and, finally, last but most certainly not least, crass stupidity. There is so much which can be said about the latest US aggression on Venezuela that entire books could be (and will be) written about this, but I want to begin by look at a few specific but nonetheless very symptomatic aspects.
    The Saker concludes that what the US Neocons, such Pompeo, Bolton and Abrams are up to in Venezuela is, like so many prior operations, really ugly, but the good news is that the US has become so incompetent in such operations that it will probably fail.

    In particular, The Saker passes along a status report on the Venezuelan military, from a colleague of his who knows it well.

    It's a good read -- I recommend it.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by The Saker
    finally, last but most certainly not least, crass stupidity.
    couldn't agree more. And the only reason they had almost conquered the world is because they are the only ones with such ambition (not because they are smart) and the big majority being so different and opposite can not imagine that such entities could exist. But now that they have been expose its check mate IMO.

    Just see how Russia disabled their state of the art warfare with a simple jamming device. stupidity?

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    [...]

    However, I think you'll find that oil was forced down to harm Putin, not Venezuela.
    ... you also missed this:
    Posted by Hervé (here)
    [...]

    Rothschilds/John D. Rockefeller, Sr. funded the Bolshevik Revolution

    Per his writings in the Archives, John D. Rockefeller helped fund the Bolshevik Revolution to get the wealth of the Czars, the labor of the Russian people, and much the Southern Oil fields in Russia. That wealth changed its name from Czarist, to Russian Government owned. Ignore the names, what happened to it? Did the people of Russia get it? No. The Rockefeller Archives show that he built a private army in Russia, much like the Brown Shirt army later. His accountant said that for each 2 cents that he spent to build that Army he got a dollar back. That Army was not staying up late to knit socks to sell. They were beating people up and committing assassinations, massacres, and mayhem to terrorize the populace into submission. And he was bribing officials to get what he wanted. He was apparently famous for that in the US as well. See www.reformation.org/rockefeller-bribery.html .

    [...]

    In exchange, Rockefeller got some of the Czars crown jewels. The Rockefeller Family stored some of them in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. I was able to prove that to the satisfaction of the Director of CIA at the time. They also got most of the profits from the Southern Russian oil fields. In about 1994, I went on a tour of them with Rodman Rockefeller so I know that for a fact. In addition, the Rockefellers charged about 18% interest on the money that they loaned Lenin for the Revolution. The way that agreement was set up made all of the loot that Lenin could seize in Russia, the Rockefellers/Rothschilds.
    =============================================

    ... so, losing a bit of pocket loose change in exchange for Venezuelan's oil fields falling into Exxon's arms looks like a good "investment."
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    https://www.caracaschronicles.com/20...ship-up-to-11/


    The tug-of-war between Juan Guaidó and Nicolas Maduro for recognition as Venezuela’s president has recently intensified, including a new offensive strategy against freedom of speech by chavismo. Just in the last couple of days, Nicolás Maduro’s regime arrested two Chilean journalists (who spent at least 14 hours detained, before being deported), two Venezuelan, two French (working for private TV channel TF1, both later deported) and their local contact, free at the time of publication.

    Due process is not really a concern in the system Hugo Chávez built.
    Three workers of the Spanish news agency EFE were arrested as well: two Colombian nationals, one Spanish and their Venezuelan driver. The EFE Newsroom Board demandedtheir immediate release, followed by the Spanish and Colombian governments. After several hours, they were released. EFE publicly condemned their deportation afterwards.

    Maduro’s Foreign Minister, Jorge Arreaza, justifies all of this with the alleged enforcement of local laws, saying everything that’s going on against free press is really a “mediatic op.” Since we’ve covered similar cases in recent years, we can tell you: Arreaza’s claims are not just inaccurate, they’re pure bad faith.

    State Telecom CANTV has imposed targeted blocks on social networks and even Wikipedia, showing the hegemony’s willingness to create a void on information so the red narrative holds on. NGO IPYS Venezuela confirms that the battlefield has certainly expanded to digital arenas.

    “Chavismo has been building their communicational hegemony for 20 years, first by creating new outlets, then by censorship. Today, mainstream media is either dead, or self-censored due to harassment from CONATEL. The lack of newsprint was a deliberate part of it, and the one thing left are digital outlets and the foreign press. How come they don’t attack Televen or Venevisión? It’s because they’re already subdued.”

    “If they can’t control it, they attack it.”

    Journalist Luis Carlos Díaz has an even more Machiavellian theory:

    “(This is) a system doing all it can for international recognition, including kidnapping and holding foreign citizens, so consulates and ambassadors are forced to recognize them as authorities for negotiation.”
    Juan Nagel who appears to be behind the Caracas Chronicles can be found corresponding with Stratfor operatives in the Wikileaks Global Intelligence files, here and appears on their Excel spreadsheet of contacts/sources under the Attribution column.

    Although by no means absolutely certain, there may be a serious conflict of interest with their coverage.

    Footnote at 13:53 GMT (Tintin Q) - Row 23 on the Weekly Confederation Project updates spreadsheet details some very interesting regular activity.

    Anyone interested in exploring the StratFor link to Juan Nagel and the Caracas Chronicles may find these Wikileaks files, although not voluminous by any means, really quite insightful.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)

    As Bill Ryan says, if the media hate him so much, he is obviously a good guy!

    The Joker is the enemy of Batman.

    Harvey Dent(as Two Face) becomes Batman enemy as well.

    So by your logic they are now friends?


    Lets put it in a better and more real and concrete example.

    Early 1900s, in the Phillipines.

    For a long time, the Spanish(which isnt it delightful that the example that jumped to my mind was about your people?) have run the many islands and have not been very pleasant to the Local Filipinos.

    So Here comes the Spanish American war. So America comes to "Liberate" the filipinos. Many Filipinos are happy and openly embrace the Americans and fight with them, Thinking as you do "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

    They Kick the Spanish out. HURRAY. Happiness abounds. NOPE

    Filipinos realize the Americans are just replacing the Spanish not setting up liberty and equality and justice for all(you know like the American system).

    Then they Turn on the Americans and start a guerrilla war (btw this is where waterboarding started to be standard practice for the military)

    So time goes by and now a new enemy of the enemy emerges: Japan.

    So the filipinos believe the propaganda that the Japanese are spreading about Pan Asianism and the Greater Co Prosperity Sphere and they are here to liberate from the Americans.

    I am sure you know what happens next.

    Hopefully our walk down history lane was informative for the people who dont seem to realize: Just because the MSM doesnt like someone doesnt make them divine.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ader-venezuela


    Whoopee .
    Cat among pigeons .
    Our Lords and Masters will hate that .
    Apoplectic I imagine .
    Next ? US sets sets sail for Rome . Brussels implodes . UK usual asre licking self .

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by 5th (here)
    My God Herve, it's embarrassing the propaganda lies you keep posting!

    I can only conclude that you have OCD or are paid by the Russians...

    And you're an Administrator? No wonder the membership is falling.
    @5th,

    Let's not offend moderation or administrators. I think nobody is being paid in this forum. Please stick to the topic. We really know what is happening, for instance, we know Hinterlaces is not a credible poll source, but they don't.

    So, let's post what we think is right and allow them to post what is "left" (pun intended).

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/read...202-story.html

    The guy wasn't "self proclaimed". He is using constitutional rights. By the way, Chavismo did exactly the same once.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Maybe this thread title should be changed to "Maduro Supporters gather here". and another should be started, "Maduro's got to go!" to be fair.

    On the other hand - I'm surprised people who haven't lived in or been to Venezuela and experienced the entirety of Venezuelan life, culture and politics are on the side of a government that has starved its own country. I'm very sad to know many people who treasure opinion, dogma and ideologue above real life experience and being grounded, down to earth living through current events.

    Jim's blog, which this thread was originally based on and as POSTED By our dear Herve, and just stated on his blog :

    "I had just gotten finished telling Claudia how Maduro had to be legitimate because Venezuela uses positive ID including fingerprint and the people can go and see how they voted. Claudia then said: "I have a friend in Venezuela who's dead mom votes, and she can go into the records and see her mom does!!!!
    So it looks like Venezuela needs a little practice to match the Dems in America. And to hell with a confirmed vote I guess. Maduro may not be legit after all."

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    ...

    ... about that article 233:
    As Professor Laughland writes:
    The resolution voted by the European Parliament is actually worse than President Trump’s 'recognition' of Guaido on January 23. Four political groups in the European Parliament, acting independently of one another before later agreeing on a common resolution, sat down to formulate their texts, in legal language, which state that Juan Guaido is the legitimate president 'according to Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution.'
    ...
    No one who has ever read Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution could possibly conclude that it says anything of the kind.

    On the contrary, Article 233 is precisely what Juan Guaido violated when he performed his little stunt of proclaiming himself president in a public square in Caracas on January 23.

    Most countries’ constitutions have articles like Article 233 of the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. It deals with what happens if the president of the Republic does not, or cannot, fulfill his duties.

    It lists six circumstances in which his term can be cut short: if he dies; if he resigns; if he is removed from office by a ruling of the country’s supreme court; if he is proclaimed physically or mentally unfit after a formal medical procedure validated by the National Assembly and by the supreme court; if he abandons his office; or if he is impeached by a popular referendum.

    Not a single one of these conditions has been fulfilled:
    • President Maduro has not resigned;
    • he is not dead or unfit;
    • he has not been impeached by the courts or by the people.
    Worse, Article 233 goes on to say who takes power if the presidency falls vacant – which it has not – and, guess what? It specifies that it is the vice-president who takes over, in this case Mrs Delcy Rodriguez, not the president of the National Assembly (Guaido).

    The only circumstance in which the president of the National Assembly takes over is if the president has not been inaugurated. As Maduro has been president since 2013, it is impossible to pretend that this is the case. He took the oath of office for his second term on January 10, in front of the president of the Supreme Tribunal of Justice.
    =================================

    ... that's about that!
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    Quote Posted by spade (here)
    Maybe this thread title should be changed to "Maduro Supporters gather here". and another should be started, "Maduro's got to go!" to be fair.

    On the other hand - I'm surprised people who haven't lived in or been to Venezuela and experienced the entirety of Venezuelan life, culture and politics are on the side of a government that has starved its own country. I'm very sad to know many people who treasure opinion, dogma and ideologue above real life experience and being grounded, down to earth living through current events.

    Jim's blog, which this thread was originally based on and as POSTED By our dear Herve, and just stated on his blog :

    "I had just gotten finished telling Claudia how Maduro had to be legitimate because Venezuela uses positive ID including fingerprint and the people can go and see how they voted. Claudia then said: "I have a friend in Venezuela who's dead mom votes, and she can go into the records and see her mom does!!!!
    So it looks like Venezuela needs a little practice to match the Dems in America. And to hell with a confirmed vote I guess. Maduro may not be legit after all."
    Do you not see the irony in your post?

    Have you, presumably from Indonesia, ever been to Venezuela or any of the things you have mentioned? What your being there for a year? Two years? Gives you enough insight that you make claims like you do? Do you Speak Spanish? Do you speak Venezuelan Spanish(lest we assume all Spanishes are the same)? If you live there and have been for several years and speak the language, then you will put me in my place and I will take your opinion more seriously in the way I see the world. But if these are not true, how are you different than the people you are surprised by?

    Wouldnt you probably take issues if I started Supporting Jokowi because he is cleaning up Jakarta and because I like the idea of moving the Government out of Java and putting it Borneo. Also, I think the government killed many of those anti corruption people on that plane crash recently, but I dont think it was Jokowi but actually the family of Suharto secretly behind the scenes. I think the Suharto deep state in Indonesia is slowly strangling your country to death. Furthermore, Black pink is not immodest and the people in Indonesia who were getting mad about K POP are silly reactionaries.

    Feels strange when foreigners have opinions about your politics and make claims without really being able to source them, doesnt it?

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    I do not like President Maduro and what he has done to Venezuela. There are many good Venezuelans here in Ecuador who have fled their homeland because of Maduro. Yet Juan Guiado is clearly a puppet president want-to-be planted by the USA and the EU. If asked, I would not support either man for president. So much in that country has been destroyed that there will be no simple solution.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    WSJ confirms: Trump-appointed Guaido would inflict neoliberal capitalist shock therapy on Venezuela's people

    Ben Norton The Grayzone
    Mon, 04 Feb 2019 18:14 UTC


    Juan Guaido © Agence France-Presse

    Venezuela's US-appointed coup leader Juan Guaidó plans to privatize state assets and give foreign corporations access to oil, the Wall Street Journal admitted.

    The Wall Street Journal reported that Venezuela's US-appointed coup leader Juan Guaidó has already drafted plans for "opening up Venezuela's vast oil sector to private investment" and "privatizing assets held by state enterprises."

    The report confirms what The Grayzone previously reported.
    "Juan Guaidó, recognized by Washington as the rightful leader, said he would sell state assets and invite private investment in the energy industry," read the Wall Street Journal's January 31 article.
    The paper noted that Guaidó plans "to reverse President Nicolás Maduro's economic polices," explaining:
    "Mr. Guaidó said his plan called for seeking financial aide from multilateral organizations, tapping bilateral loans, restructuring debt and opening up Venezuela's vast oil sector to private investment. It includes privatizing assets held by state enterprises ... He also said he'd end wasteful state subsidies and take steps to revive the private sector."
    In other words, Guaidó plans to implement the neoliberal capitalist shock therapy that Washington has imposed on the region for decades.

    Using funding from US-dominated international financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the Venezuelan coup leader seeks to adopt an aggressive "structural adjustment" program, enacting the kinds of economic policies that have led to the preventable deaths of millions of people and an explosion of poverty and inequality in the years following capitalist restoration in the former Soviet Union.

    In a speech, Juan Guaidó even echoed rhetoric that is popular among US conservatives: "Here, no one wants to be given anything."

    It is clear that the coup leader's priorities reflect those of Venezuela's capitalist oligarchs and right-wing politicians in the United States. Economic liberalization is the Venezuelan opposition's first and most important goal; democracy is just a pretense.
    Ben Norton is a journalist and writer. He is a reporter for The Grayzone, and the producer of the Moderate Rebels podcast, which he co-hosts with Max Blumenthal. His website is BenNorton.com, and he tweets at @BenjaminNorton.
    Related:
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

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    Venezuela Avalon Member perolator's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Re: Turmoil in Venezuela

    @Hervé,
    your Professor Laughland is plain wrong.

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    ...
    Most countries’ constitutions have articles like Article 233 of the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. It deals with what happens if the president of the Republic does not, or cannot, fulfill his duties.

    It lists six circumstances in which his term can be cut short: if he dies; if he resigns; if he is removed from office by a ruling of the country’s supreme court; if he is proclaimed physically or mentally unfit after a formal medical procedure validated by the National Assembly and by the supreme court; if he abandons his office; or if he is impeached by a popular referendum.
    Maduro is clearly unfit to be president. Just 2 reasons:
    • He could not prove he is Venezuelan by birth.
    • Elections were rigged.

    Quote Worse, Article 233 goes on to say who takes power if the presidency falls vacant – which it has not – and, guess what? It specifies that it is the vice-president who takes over, in this case Mrs Delcy Rodriguez, not the president of the National Assembly (Guaido).
    Wrong.

    The National Assembly President is the designated by the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution as the person who has to be incumbent president while new elections are held.

    Quote Spanish: Cuando se produzca la falta absoluta del Presidente o Presidenta de la República durante los primeros cuatro años del período constitucional, se procederá a una nueva elección universal y directa dentro de los treinta días consecutivos siguientes. Cuando se produzca la falta absoluta del Presidente electo o Presidenta electa antes de tomar posesión, se procederá a una nueva elección universal, directa y secreto dentro de los treinta días consecutivos siguientes. Mientras se elige y toma posesión el nuevo Presidente o Presidenta, se encargará de la Presidencia de la República el Presidente o Presidenta de la Asamblea Nacional.

    While election and inauguration of the new President (man) or the new president (woman), will be in charge of the Presidency of the Republic the President (man) or President (woman) of the National Assembly.
    Source

    Incredible as it seems, there is no official PDF of the Venezuelan Constitution online. The source I am referring to is a condensed version, having articles referred to the Presidential elections. A lot of webpages in spanish has the text where should say "President of the National Assembly" changed to "Vicepresident of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela" (!). That IS not true.

    Absolute fault was declared after the evidently rigged 2018 elections.

    Diosdado Cabello declared himself president in 2002, under the Article 233 of the Constitution. 2 days later, when Chavez was re-instated as president, Cabello was promoted to Vice-President, replacing Jose V. Rangel.

    Quote The only circumstance in which the president of the National Assembly takes over
    ... that's about that!
    Constitution works for Socialism but not the other way?

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