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    Avalon Member Akasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Hey Snoop,

    As you know, I appreciate your work as evidenced by my thanks within the DTH thread. Thanks for clarifiying the minutia of this situation. Perhaps it will be of help to waves too.
    Last edited by Akasha; 25th June 2019 at 11:18.
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    So there’s my Deborah Tavares story. You decide. Thanks for reading,
    gongw
    People do get carried away with becoming leaders. I don't respect leadership much, never have. I do suspect, however, than in 50 years one will look back and see that Deborah Tavares was more right about Agenda 21 than anyone else.
    TomKat,

    When it comes to Agenda 21, what was Deborah Tavares right about?
    I don't read long diatribes, yours is no exception. I don't think Agenda 21 is a hoax. I heard about it well before she came on the scene. Back in the mid-90s people were talking about UN Biospheres, the Wilderness Society, and the UN's intention to herd everyone into cities. You are calling it the Agenda 21 Hoax yet you also refer to the Agenda 21 document -- is it a hoax or not? If the document exists, your coining the term Agenda 21 Hoax reveals you to be a propagandist, since someone reading Agenda 21 Hoax will be led to think there is no Agenda 21.

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    Avalon Member Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    TomKat, with all due respect, if you will not read what Snoop has to say about Agenda 21 how can you comment on it? I think this is the essential problem here. You identify an issue, in this case Agenda 21 which you feel strongly about and you are willing to defend someone because she says things you agree with.

    The point here is that she if fortifying or backing up her argument with information that is inaccurate. That means she is being dishonest. It doesn't mean every single thing she says is wrong, it means she is willing to present inaccurate information to make her point. It's not enough to believe someone because they have the same viewpoint as you do on a topic, or the because they seem sincere.

    I have to question her agenda. Why lie and create deceptive documents if you can find talking points that don't need to be dishonest on a subject? Is it because the drama of claiming to have documents proving her point gets more interest, thus more views and finally more money? What kind of effect would Deborah have on someone just beginning to seek the truth, if they researched her "documents" and discovered she is inaccurate?

    This is exactly how unscrupulous, "truth tellers" can manipulate us.
    Last edited by Pam; 29th June 2019 at 12:48.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by Akasha (here)
    Hey Snoop,

    As you know, I appreciate your work as evidenced by my thanks within the DTH thread. Thanks for clarifiying the minutia of this situation. Perhaps it will be of help to waves too.
    Dear Akasha,

    YOUR COMMENT: As you know, I appreciate your work as evidenced by my thanks within the DTH thread.

    MY RESPONSE: Yep. We're old pals.

    YOUR COMMENT: Thanks for clarifying the minutia of this situation.

    MY RESPONSE: You're welcome. Somebody had to do it. If you don't know the facts, it could look like a scandal. But, there is no scandal here. We're just good people trying to get the truth out and trying to help other people avoid the same fate we suffered.

    YOUR COMMENT: Perhaps it will be of help to waves too

    MY RESPONSE: I certainly hope so. He is precisely the type of person that we are all trying to help.

    With Much Respect,

    Snoop

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  9. Link to Post #45
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    So there’s my Deborah Tavares story. You decide. Thanks for reading,
    gongw
    People do get carried away with becoming leaders. I don't respect leadership much, never have. I do suspect, however, than in 50 years one will look back and see that Deborah Tavares was more right about Agenda 21 than anyone else.
    TomKat,

    When it comes to Agenda 21, what was Deborah Tavares right about?
    I don't read long diatribes, yours is no exception. I don't think Agenda 21 is a hoax. I heard about it well before she came on the scene. Back in the mid-90s people were talking about UN Biospheres, the Wilderness Society, and the UN's intention to herd everyone into cities. You are calling it the Agenda 21 Hoax yet you also refer to the Agenda 21 document -- is it a hoax or not? If the document exists, your coining the term Agenda 21 Hoax reveals you to be a propagandist, since someone reading Agenda 21 Hoax will be led to think there is no Agenda 21.

    Hello TomKat,


    YOUR COMMENT: I don't read long diatribes,

    MY RESPONSE: Perhaps you should. You might actually learn something you don't already know.

    YOUR COMMENT: I don't think Agenda 21 is a hoax.

    MY RESPONSE: It isn't. Agenda 21 is REAL. Agenda 21 is a document. So, the document itself is not a hoax. The hoax is what Deborah Tavares falsely claims the document says.

    But, there is more. Agenda 21 was ONLY A SUGGESTION that member nations were PERMITTED, BUT NOT REQUIRED to adopt for themselves. The government of the United States REJECTED AGENDA 21. So, Agenda 21 IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE UNITED STATES.

    So, whatever Agenda 21 would have otherwise done (protect the environment or drive us into tightly-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities"), IT WILL NOT DO IT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

    QUESTION:
    Did Deborah Tavares ever tell you that? (If not, she is guilty of fraud by concealment.).

    YOUR COMMENT: I heard about it well before she came on the scene. Back in the mid-90s people were talking about UN Biospheres, the Wilderness Society, and the UN's intention to herd everyone into cities.

    MY RESPONSE: I have never claimed that Deborah Tavares is the original source of all of the false claims about Agenda 21. I have only claimed that what Deborah Tavares claims the Agenda 21 document says is false.

    YOUR CLAIMS: You are calling it the Agenda 21 Hoax yet you also refer to the Agenda 21 document -- is it a hoax or not?

    MY RESPONSE: Agenda 21 is a document. So, the document itself is not a hoax. The hoax is what Deborah Tavares falsely claims the document says.

    YOUR COMMENT: If the document exists, your coining the term Agenda 21 Hoax reveals you to be a propagandist, since someone reading Agenda 21 Hoax will be led to think there is no Agenda 21.

    MY RESPONSE: Would you prefer that the title of my expose' on this subject be changed to read, "The Agenda 21 Document Is Real, But What Deborah Tavares Says The Agenda 21 Document Says Is A Hoax"? If not, what title would you prefer?

    A FINAL WORD OF WISDOM: In evaluating any individual claim of Deborah Tavares, you should NOT look at that claim in isolation. Instead, you should evaluate that claim in light of all the surrounding circumstances. For example, ask yourself these questions: 1). Does Deborah Tavares make other similar claims? 2). Are those other similar claims true or false? 3). Does the claim fit into a PATTERN of fraud? 4). Does the claim further the same agenda as her other similar claims? 5). Does the new claim result in the same response in the listener as the other similar claims?

    Think. It's OK.

    AND, PATTERNS OF CONDUCT NEVER LIE!

    NEVER!

    With Respect,

    Snoop
    Last edited by snoop4truth; 26th June 2019 at 22:17.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Post scroll down to Post #50.
    Last edited by snoop4truth; 26th June 2019 at 23:15.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Since the thread title does not refer to Deborah Tavares, I hope this video is not "off topic". It really focuses on the devasting effects a cult can do. Unless you are an Australian, you may not have heard of Serge Benhayon and his cult Universal Medicine. This really shows how a small group of people can do so much to destroy the lives of others.



    To his followers, Serge Benhayon is a healer, a spiritual guide, and a god-like figure. They’ve signed over millions of dollars to share his wisdom and smooth their path to the afterlife. But he preaches that we’re surrounded by aliens, and that disabled children are evil reincarnated. Why are so many Australians devoted to him? Matt Doran investigates. This story originally aired on the 17 February 2019.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Since the thread title does not refer to Deborah Tavares, I hope this video is not "off topic". It really focuses on the devasting effects a cult can do. Unless you are an Australian, you may not have heard of Serge Benhayon and his cult Universal Medicine. This really shows how a small group of people can do so much to destroy the lives of others.



    To his followers, Serge Benhayon is a healer, a spiritual guide, and a god-like figure. They’ve signed over millions of dollars to share his wisdom and smooth their path to the afterlife. But he preaches that we’re surrounded by aliens, and that disabled children are evil reincarnated. Why are so many Australians devoted to him? Matt Doran investigates. This story originally aired on the 17 February 2019.
    Great link, thanks Kryztian.

    The psychological manipulation on academics, practitioners, people it is difficult to believe would be gullible, etc, revealed in this video, is nothing short of shocking.

    The evidence is overwhelming. And yet we witness in the video people completely devoted to him. It is mind boggling.

    An incredibly useful and educational visual aid documentary on contemporary cult leaders and their followers!

    A dying mother’s mind controlling emails from Benhayon corrupting her to distance herself from her children and to leave her considerable estate to him, because it would hurt her and her children if she left it to them, is heinous.

    Benhayon labels all disabled children as evil reincarnations.

    He says . . . actually there’s too much . . . I’m speechless at the moment . . . so I’ll leave it up to those who choose to watch this to take away why it is so important these people need to be exposed. And how important it is for these brave people to come forward to endure more pain because they are exposing the truth.

    Benhayon sued a critic for defamation. He lost.

    Jury verdict: “It was substantially true to say he led a "socially harmful cult", made "bogus healing claims", "intentionally indecently touched" her and a number of other clients, and as Ms Rockett claimed, that there were "reasonable grounds to believe" Mr Benhayon intentionally sexually preyed upon her and other clients during treatment sessions. It was also found substantially true to say Mr Benhayon "had an "indecent interest in young girls as young as ten whom he causes to stay at his house unaccompanied", "is guilty of inappropriate behaviour with children" and "is dishonest".

    Other substantial truth findings by the jury were that he "vilifies people with disabilities", "exploits cancer patients by targeting them to leave him bequests in their wills", "dishonestly promotes fraudulent ideas of karma for self-gain", "denigrates life and glorifies death" and "is a hypocrite because his Esoteric Healing has death as its goal". The Northern Star also reported further substantial truth findings that "Serge Benhayon engages in inappropriate conduct towards women", "instructed students at Universal Medicine training workshops to touch the genitals of victims of sexual assault", "has engaged in bullying to stop Esther Rockett exposing that he is guilty of inappropriate behaviour with children" and "is not a fit person to hold a Working with Children Certificate".

    The jury found allegations that Benhayon was "delusional", had "a propensity to touch girls inappropriately", "groped the genitals of various women under the guise of treating them" or "instilled fear and guilt in children to get them to do his bidding" were not substantially true or upheld, instead they were covered by Rockett's qualified privilege.



    And it just keeps getting worse: Benhayon left his wife for a younger woman who is now his wife. Both women and his daughters are all intricately part of his deception by supporting him and leading workshops.
    It really has to be seen to be believed.
    Last edited by Gemma13; 26th June 2019 at 05:17.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    MY RESPONSE: Would you prefer that the title of my expose' on this subject be changed to read, "The Agenda 21 Document Is Real, But What Deborah Tavares Says The Agenda 21 Document Says Is A Hoax"? If not, what title would you prefer?
    As I said, she has gotten carried away. But she's performing a valuable service in alerting people to the agenda being pursued by whoever THEY are. They are not necessarily the official government. But they are attempting to drive people out of the countryside and into the cities. I believe they want to set aside vast areas of non-populated areas for fracking, mining, and general rape and pillage. And 50 years from now, if we don't stop it, you will see that she was right. And you are performing a valuable service in point out her exaggerations.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    What follows goes out to my new friend TomKat. It incorporates my brand new discovery.

    DEBORAH TAVARES & THE AGENDA 21 HOAX.

    For all other Deborah Tavares hoaxes (NASA, Silent Weapons, Iron Mountain, Agenda 21, PG&E Fires, Genocide), click here. https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...eborah-Tavares

    VIDEOS OF DEBORAH TAVARES ENGAGED IN THE HOAX:
    (Jeff Rense is not involved in the hoax.).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQfXQWHRAw at 4:40-4:50, 9:25-9:55
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNsM0a75iE at 23:25-23:50

    THE DOCUMENTS:
    The Agenda 21 Hoax is based on two documents. Agenda 21 itself was a REAL United Nations document. It was a SUGGESTION to protect the environment WHICH THE UNITED STATES SENATE REJECTED. So, it never became the law. (See the 2nd paragraph here. https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/article-ii-section-2). The document was REAL. So, the hoax is not the document itself. The other document involved in this hoax is a "SIMULATED" land use map which Deborah Tavares fraudulently calls the "Agenda 21 Map". This "SIMULATED" land use map is NOT REAL and DOES NOT EVEN APPLY TO AGENDA 21 in the first place. Instead, it was the work of a single opponent to the "Biological Diversity Treaty" (something different from Agenda 21) and was used to create opposition to that particular proposed treaty, WHICH THE UNITED STATES SENATE ALSO REJECTED. Because the United States Senate REJECTED BOTH Agenda 21 and the Biological Diversity Treaty (to which the map related), BOTH AGENDA 21 AND THE BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY TREATY ARE COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE UNITED STATES. Deborah Tavares knew the truth (above) all along, but nevertheless decided to lie to her followers about it in order to incite fear, hatred and violence against innocent Americans.

    THE HOAX:
    In the "Agenda 21 Hoax", Deborah Tavares fraudulently claims that the Agenda 21 document "PROVES" that the United Nations is using diabolical methods (like fires and laser beams from satellites in space) to force us out or our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" or "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind. But, her claims about this document are not so.

    The Agenda 21 document was written by the world's leading environmental scientists (not by "PG&E", the "Rothschilds" or the "Rockefellers"). Agenda 21 was first presented to the public at the "EARTH SUMMIT" (an environmental conference) in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil in 1992.

    The "Agenda 21" document suggested that we reduce the rate at which we deplete our natural resources to the same rate at which at which they can recover from being depleted (called "sustainable development"). If the United States Senate had ratified or approved Agenda 21, it would have PROTECTED MOST OF THE REMAINING FORESTS, exactly the opposite to what Deborah Tavares claims in her hoax (to the effect that the United Nations intentionally burned the forests of California in furtherance of the Agenda 21 agenda WHICH WAS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO PRESERVE THOSE VERY FORESTS FROM DESTRUCTION IN THE FIRST PLACE). If the United States Senate had ratified or approved Agenda 21, it would have also REDUCED DROUGHT AND INSURED AN ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF FRESH WATER not contaminated by SEWAGE.

    AGENDA 21 IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT IN THE UNITED STATES!
    Agenda 21 was only a SUGGESTION that member nations were permitted, BUT NOT REQUIRED TO ADOPT for themselves. While president Bush symbolically "signed" Agenda 21,THE UNITED STATES SENATE REJECTED AGENDA 21. So, Agenda 21 IS NOT THE LAW anywhere in the United States, DOES NOT APPLY anywhere in the United States and CANNOT BE (AND IS NOT) ENFORCED anywhere in the United States. (See the 2nd paragraph here. https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/article-ii-section-2 ).So, Agenda 21 is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the United States.The 5th paragraph here sums it up perfectly. https://www.splcenter.org/20140331/a...spiracy-theory . But, Deborah Tavares FRAUDULENTLY CONCEALS that CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FACT from her followers.

    WHAT AGENDA 21 IS ACTUALLY ABOUT:


    BELOW IS A SECTION OF THE ACTUAL "TABLE OF CONTENTS" OF "AGENDA 21" ON THE VERY FIRST PAGE OF "AGENDA 21".

    SECTION II. CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT OF RESOURCES FOR DEVELOPMENT
    9. Protection of the atmosphere 9.1 - 9.35
    10. Integrated approach to the planning and management of land resources 10.1 - 10.18
    11. COMBATING DEFORESTATION 11.1 - 11.40
    12. MANAGING FRAGILE ECOSYSTEMS: COMBATING desertification and DROUGHT 12.1 - 12.63
    13. Managing fragile ecosystems: sustainable mountain development 13.1 - 13.24
    14. Promoting sustainable agriculture and rural development 14.1 - 14.104
    15. CONSERVATION OF BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY15.1 - 15.11
    16. Environmentally sound MANAGEMENT OF BIODIVERSITY 16.1 - 16.46
    17. Protection of the oceans, all kinds of seas, including enclosed and semi-enclosed seas, and coastal areas and the protection, rational use and development of their living resources 17.1 - 17.136
    18.PROTECTION OF THE QUALITY AND SUPPLY OF FRESHWATER RESOURCES: application of integrated approaches to the development, MANAGEMENT and use of WATER RESOURCES 18.1 - 18.90
    19. Environmentally sound management of toxic chemicals, including prevention of illegal international traffic in toxic and dangerous products 19.1 - 19.76
    20. Environmentally sound management of hazardous wastes, in hazardous wastes 20.1 - 20.46
    21. Environmentally sound MANAGEMENT OF solid wastes and SEWAGE-RELATED ISSUES 21.1 - 21.49
    22. Safe and environmentally sound management of radioactive wastes

    AND, ALL OF THIS IS ON THE VERY FIRST PAGE OF AGENDA 21 HERE.
    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...s/Agenda21.pdf

    BELOW IS THE ACTUAL TEXT OF AGENDA 21.

    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...s/Agenda21.pdf
    (THIS IS A MUST READ.). BEGIN AT SECTION 11.1 AT ABOUT 25% THROUGH THE TEXT. THE ACTUAL TEXT OF AGENDA 21 READS AS FOLLOWS:

    AGENDA 21 – CHAPTER 11

    COMBATING DEFORESTATION

    PROGRAMME AREAS

    A. Sustaining the multiple roles and functions of all types of FORESTS, FOREST LANDS and WOODLANDS.

    Basis for action

    11.1. There are major weaknesses in the policies, methods and mechanisms adopted to support and develop the multiple ecological, economic, social and cultural roles of TREES, FORESTS, and FOREST LANDS. Many developed countries are confronted with the effects of air pollution and FIRE DAMAGE ON THEIR FORESTS. More effective measures and approaches are often required at the national level to improve and harmonize policy formulation, planning and programming; legislative measures and instruments; development patterns; participation of the general public, especially women and indigenous people; involvement of youth; roles of the private sector, local organizations, non-governmental organizations and cooperatives; development of technical and multidisciplinary skills and quality of human resources; FORESTRY extension and public education; research capability and support; administrative structures and mechanisms, including intersectoral coordination, decentralization and responsibility and incentive systems; and dissemination of information and public relations. This is especially important to ensure a rational and holistic approach to the sustainable and environmentally sound development of FORESTS. The need for securing the multiple roles of FORESTS and FOREST LANDS through adequate and appropriate institutional strengthening has been repeatedly emphasized in many of the reports, decisions and recommendations of FAO, ITTO, UNEP, the World Bank, IUCN and other organizations.

    Objectives
    11.2. The objectives of this programme area are as follows:
    a. To STRENGTHEN FOREST-RELATED NATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, to enhance the scope and effectiveness of activities related to the management, CONSERVATION and sustainable development of FORESTS, and to effectively ensure the sustainable utilization and production of FOREST'S goods and services in both the developed and the developing countries; by the year 2000, to strengthen the capacities and capabilities of national institutions to enable them to acquire the necessary knowledge for the PROTECTION AND CONSERVATION OF FORESTS, as well as to expand their scope and, correspondingly, enhance the effectiveness of programmes and activities related to the management and development of FORESTS;
    b. To strengthen and improve human, technical and professional skills, as well as expertise and capabilities to effectively formulate and implement policies, plans, programmes, research and projects on management, CONSERVATION and sustainable development of all types of FORESTS and FOREST-based resources, and FOREST LANDS inclusive, as well as other areas from which FORESTS BENEFITS CAN BE DERIVED.

    AND, THIS IS ONLY THE FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS OF SECTION 11 OF AGENDA 21!

    IMPORTANT:
    You will note from the actual WRITTEN words of Agenda 21 itself (above), THERE IS NO PROVISION FOR INCREMENTALLY REDUCING THE AREAS ALREADY OCCUPIED BY PEOPLE (to systematically drive them from their rural and suburban homes and into increasingly smaller, densely packed, over-populated "KILL CITIES" or "SMART CITIES" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind). According to the actual WRITTEN words of Agenda 21 itself, its purpose was to REDUCE DEFORESTATION).

    THE "AGENDA 21 MAP"
    In addition to the Agenda 21 document itself (described above), Deborah Tavares also claims to have discovered a land use map which she fraudulently claims CONSTITUTES PROOF that Agenda 21 is a plan which uses diabolical means (like forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space) to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" or "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind. But, this is not so.

    To see this "SIMULATED" land use map, scroll down to about 40% through the text here. http://www.renegadetribune.com/parad...ather-warfare/.

    IMPORTANT:
    Note that this "SIMULATED" land use map makes NO REFERENCE to "Agenda 21" whatsoever and that IT REFERS INSTEAD to the "Convention On Biological Diversity" (something different from Agenda 21). Importantly, this "SIMULATED" land use map ALSO REFERS TO "The Wildlands Project" (a mere suggestion from private environmentalists which has NOTHING to do with the United Nations), "UN and US Man And Biosphere Program", various "Heritage Programs" and "NAFTA" (which ALSO has NOTHING to do with the United Nations).

    PROOF THAT AGENDA 21 AND THE BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY TREATY ARE DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER.
    Scroll down to the 9th un-numbered page to the Table Of Contents here. Compare this Table Of Contents to the Table Of Contents above. https://portals.iucn.org/library/efi...LP-no.030.pdf;
    See paragraph 3 here. http://www.eniscuola.net/en/2012/01/...rio-to-rio20/;
    See paragraphs 1 & 6 here. https://www.cato.org/publications/po...-conservation;
    See paragraphs 91, 106, 107 & 108 here. http://www.fao.org/3/x5586E/x5586e06.htm;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21 (proposed in 1992);
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conven...ical_Diversity (begun in 1994);
    Scroll down to about 65% through the text to the END of the paragraph just below the BLUE subtitle which reads, "Sustainable use of biodiversity: Developing incentive measures". https://www.oas.org/dsd/publications...a04e/ch10.htm;

    OTHER VERSIONS OF THIS MAP:
    https://www.google.com/search?source...30.Fm6zNgdf57I

    ABOUT THE MAP:
    Dr. Michael S. Coffman was a prolific writer, speaker and property rights advocate. He often spoke at "liberty" conferences sponsored by the John Birch Society. He was an "environmental consultant", which is code for a lobbyist for large land owning interests and logging & mining corporations. Coffman and his clients opposed land use regulations in general and environmental regulations in particular. In 1994, when Congress was scheduled to vote on ratifying the proposed "Biological Diversity Treaty" (something different from Agenda 21), Coffman created the subject "SIMULATED" land use map to create opposition to that particular proposed treaty (not to Agenda 21). https://www.metabunk.org/explained-a...paganda.t6855/ It worked. The United States Senate ALSO REJECTED that proposed treaty. Below is a verbatim transcript of the actual Senate debate on that proposed treaty which the Senate ALSO REJECTED. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...-pt1-PgS22.htm.

    Coffman conceded that his "SIMULATED" land use map reflected what would be the resulting land use in the United States ONLY IF "ALL" OF THE PROPOSED LAND USE REGULATIONS listed at the top of his map became the law ("The Wildlands Project", "UN And US Man And Biosphere Program", various "Heritage Programs", etc.). But, Agenda 21 itself was not among those proposed land use regulations, because by the time Coffman created his "SIMULATED" land use map in 1994, THE UNITED STATES SENATE HAD ALREADY REJECTED AGENDA 21. So, Coffman relied on OTHER proposed land use regulations in creating his "SIMULATED" land use map.

    Coffman's "SIMULATED" land use map was WILDLY EXAGERATED (for propaganda purposes) both visually and verbally (note the very first word on the map, "SIMULATED"). Coffman himself coined the phrase, "LITTLE OR NO HUMAN USE" (for propaganda purposes), a phrase which does not appear in any of his alleged source material. Note also that for propaganda purposes, Coffman gave EVERY tiny wildlife refuge on his map MULTIPLE, very wide (25 miles wide), migration routes to and from neighboring wildlife refuges, rather than merely one or two narrow ones. This created the illusion that there would almost no land left for human use.

    COFFMAN INTENTIONALLY DESIGNED AND EXAGGERATED HIS LAND USE MAP (WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGENDA 21) TO CREATE THE APPEARANCE THAT IF ALL OF THESE OTHER PROPOSED LAND USE REGULATIONS WERE TO BECOME LAW, THEN, THERE WOULD BE LESS LAND AVAILABLE FOR HUMAN USE.

    IT WAS COFFMAN'S EXAGGERATED ("SIMULATED") LAND USE MAP (WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGENDA 21) THAT BECAME THE FOUNDATION FOR THE ORIGINAL CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT AGENDA 21 WILL FORCE US OUT OF OUR RURAL AND SUBURBAN HOMES AND INTO OVERPOULATED CITIES, EVEN THOUGH THAT EXAGGERATED ("SIMULATED") LAND USE MAP ACTUALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGENDA 21 IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    FACT:
    But, it was Deborah Tavares alone who came up with the new, improved and more sensational version of this hoax to the effect that Agenda 21 is a "plan" to use diabolical means (like forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space) to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the extinction of mankind. Note that this new, improved and more sensation version of this hoax allows Deborah Tavares to incorporate some of her other hoaxes (to the effect that PG&E used directed energy weapons on satellites in space to start the recent fires in California and to the effect that PG&E will use radiation from "smart meters" to kill us all).

    FACT:
    Deborah Tavares has always known that Coffman's "SIMULATED" land use map was both wildly exaggerated and that IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH AGENDA 21, much less with the United Nations using forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind. But, Deborah Tavares nevertheless decided to lie about it to her followers anyway in order to incite fear, hatred and violence against innocent Americans.

    CONCLUSION:
    The United States Senate REJECTED Agenda 21. So, Agenda 21 IS NOT THE LAW in the United States and IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the United States. Coffman's exaggerated ("SIMULATED") land use map has NOTHING to do with Agenda 21. Coffman created his exaggerated ("SIMULATED") land use map to generate opposition to the Biological Diversity Treaty (something different from Agenda 21). Coffman's exaggerated ("SIMULATED") land use map was based on all of the proposed land use regulations EXCEPT FOR AGENDA 21 ("The Wildlands Project", "UN And US Man And Biosphere Program", various "Heritage Programs", etc.).

    APPLICATION TO HOAX:

    THE RECENT CALIFORNIA FIRES DID NOT ADVANCE THE PURPOSE OF AGENDA 21 (TO PREVENT FURTHER DEFORESTATION). INDEED, THE RECENT FIRES IN CALIFORNIA ACTUALLY UNDERMINED THE REAL PURPOSE OF AGENDA 21 (BY DESTROYING THE VERY FORESTS THAT AGENDA 21 WAS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO PROTECT)!

    THEREFORE, THE RECENT CALIFORNIA FIRES WERE NOT AGENDA 21 FIRES, EVEN IF THEY WERE THE RESULT OF SOME OTHER CONSPIRACY, unrelated to Agenda 21.

    So, whether or not there is a "planned extinction of mankind", this document provides no support for that proposition.

    APPLICATION OF CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS:
    If I were a charlatan, and if I wanted to create a BETTER version of the Agenda 21 Hoax, this is how I would do it.

    1. I would create videos and I would show the REAL, ACTUAL "AGENDA 21" DOCUMENT (unmodified) showing the Agenda 21 "agenda" AS IT IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN in the official document (showing that its purpose is to PROTECT THE REMAINING FORESTS, PREVENT DROUGHT AND ENSURE AN ADEQUATE SUPPLY OF FRESH WATER UNCONTAMINATED BY SEWAGE (all of which is verifiably true).

    2. Then, in my videos, I would show written proof that "AGENDA 21" WAS REJECTED BY THE UNITED STATES SENATE AND THAT IT IS NOT THE LAW, AND THEREFORE IS NOT ENFORCEABLE ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES (all of which is verifiably true).

    3. Then, in my videos, I would show ALL OF THE ENVIROMENTAL CATASTROPHES SUFFERED BY CALIFORNIANS SINCE 1992, when Agenda 21 was first proposed AND REJECTED BY THE UNITED STATES SENATE (DESTRUCTION OF THE REMAINING FORESTS, INCREASED DROUGHT, ABSENCE OF FRESH WATER UNCONTAMINATED BY SEWAGE, PEOPLE RENDERED HOMELESS AND DISPLACED BY FOREST FIRES, ETC.).

    4. Then, in my videos, I would claim that "THE REFUSAL" (ITSELF) of U.S. Government to adopt "Agenda 21" in I992, and every year since then, constitutes conclusive "PROOF" that the U.S. Government ACTUALLY SOUGHT TO PURPOSELY DESTROY ALL THE REMAINING FORESTS IN CALIFORNIA, PURPOSELY INCREASE DROUGHTS IN CALIFORNIA AND PURPOSELY DESTROY ALL SUPPLIES OF FRESH WATER IN CALIFORNIA so as to purposely drive Californians out of their rural and suburban homes and into cities far away from the forests and wilderness areas.

    That would make a much BETTER "Agenda 21 Hoax", BECAUSE (except for the nefarious intentions of the U.S. Government part) IT IS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, VERIFIABLY AND FACTUALLY TRUE IN EVERY SINGLE RESPECT! That would make for a much MORE LOGICAL EXPLANATION for the ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHIES SUFFERED BY CALIFORNIANS than the story that Deborah Tavares peddles now (WHICH ACTUALLY CONTRADICTS THE REAL AGENDA OF AGENDA 21 TO PROTECT THOSE VERY FORESTS FROM DESTRUCTION).

    MORE APPLICATION OF CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS:
    FACT: When corporate interests are threatened by proposed laws that would reduce their profits, they launch a public relations campaign against those proposed laws. But, they do not admit that they actually oppose the proposed laws for reasons of their own selfish interests. Instead, they pretend that they oppose the proposed laws to protect the interests of society in general (out of the goodness of their own hearts).

    EXAMPLE: CONSIDER THIS HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE AS IT RELATES TO AGENDA 21. (NOTE: THIS MAY NOT HAVE EVER OCCURRED. IT IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE TO ILLUSTRATE THIS PRINCIPLE OF CORPORATE PUBLIC RELATIONS WARS.).

    If made into law, Agenda 21 (a proposed law) would slow the rate at which logging & mining corporations and land developers, like Deborah Tavares, could destroy the remaining forests (and thereby slow the rate at which they generate profits).

    So, these corporate interests launch a public relations campaign against Agenda 21. But, they do not admit that they actually oppose Agenda 21 to protect their own profits. Instead, they pretend to oppose Agenda 21 to protect the rest of society (out of the goodness of their own hearts).

    So, they come up with a CAREFULLY-CRAFTED LIE intended to get the rest of society to oppose Agenda 21 as much as they do. Instead of admitting that Agenda 21 would only slow down the rate at which logging & mining corporations and land developers, like Deborah Tavares, could destroy the remaining forests, they falsely claim that Agenda 21 WOULD ACTUALLY WORK IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! They falsely claim that Agenda 21 WOULD ACTUALLY EXPAND THE FORESTS INTO AREAS THAT WERE ALREADY DEVELOPED AND ALREADY OCCUPIED BY HUMANS, thereby systematically driving homeowners out of their rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, tightly packed, over-populated cities (something that the REAL Agenda 21 would not actually do).

    This FRAUDULENT characterization of Agenda 21 would serve to make ALL THE REST OF SOCIETY join with those who profit by destroying the forests. The rest of society would OPPOSE "AGENDA 21" in the mistaken belief THAT THEY WERE SAVING THEIR OWN HOMES IN THE PROCESS. Now, THAT is a brilliant lie. But, it gets even better.

    By telling such a lie, logging & mining corporations and real estate developers, like Deborah Tavares, could continue DESTROYING THE FORESTS and continue to cash in without any opposition from the rest of society WHILE SIMULATANEOUSLY BLAMING "AGENDA 21" (WHICH NEVER BECAME LAW IN THE FIRST PLACE) FOR THE HARDSHIPS THAT THEY THEMSELVES KNOWINGLY INFLICT ON THE REST OF SOCIETY BY DESTROYING THE REMAINING FORESTS IN THE PURSUIT OF PROFITS (increased droughts and therefore increased forest fires, decreased fresh water supplies uncontaminated by sewage, etc.). Now, THAT is a TRULY brilliant lie, blaming a SUGGESTION that never became law, for the hardships suffered by Californians, when the SUGGESTION that never became law WAS ACTUALLY DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO PREVENT THOSE VERY HARDSHIPS FROM OCCURRING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    Remember, the foregoing is only an ILLUSTRATION of how corporate interests engage in disinformation campaigns in order to get society to oppose proposed laws that would reduce their profits. This is an example only. This may have never occurred. That is not the point.

    The point is simply that Deborah Tavares lied to us about what the what the Agenda 21 document says in the same way that she lied to us about every other document she has ever used in support of her claims about the planned extinction of mankind.
    Last edited by snoop4truth; 28th June 2019 at 23:17.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    MY RESPONSE: Would you prefer that the title of my expose' on this subject be changed to read, "The Agenda 21 Document Is Real, But What Deborah Tavares Says The Agenda 21 Document Says Is A Hoax"? If not, what title would you prefer?
    As I said, she has gotten carried away. But she's performing a valuable service in alerting people to the agenda being pursued by whoever THEY are. They are not necessarily the official government. But they are attempting to drive people out of the countryside and into the cities. I believe they want to set aside vast areas of non-populated areas for fracking, mining, and general rape and pillage. And 50 years from now, if we don't stop it, you will see that she was right. And you are performing a valuable service in point out her exaggerations.
    TomKat,

    I think that snoop4truth's real investigations about Agenda 21 probably trump whatever your beliefs happen to be. Deborah Tavares is doing a huge disservice because she is disseminating and lying about some proposed idea floated somewhere to preserve the environment as an attempt to force us all into concentration camps...and then...kill us, or something. Just because horrible things can and do happen, doesn't mean Agenda 21 is a blue print for genocide.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    MY RESPONSE: Would you prefer that the title of my expose' on this subject be changed to read, "The Agenda 21 Document Is Real, But What Deborah Tavares Says The Agenda 21 Document Says Is A Hoax"? If not, what title would you prefer?
    As I said, she has gotten carried away. But she's performing a valuable service in alerting people to the agenda being pursued by whoever THEY are. They are not necessarily the official government. But they are attempting to drive people out of the countryside and into the cities. I believe they want to set aside vast areas of non-populated areas for fracking, mining, and general rape and pillage. And 50 years from now, if we don't stop it, you will see that she was right. And you are performing a valuable service in point out her exaggerations.
    TomKat,

    I think that snoop4truth's real investigations about Agenda 21 probably trump whatever your beliefs happen to be. Deborah Tavares is doing a huge disservice because she is disseminating and lying about some proposed idea floated somewhere to preserve the environment as an attempt to force us all into concentration camps...and then...kill us, or something. Just because horrible things can and do happen, doesn't mean Agenda 21 is a blue print for genocide.
    I heard about Agenda 21 years ago. Snoop says it wasn't adopted in the US, but in the US I see local planning organizations promoting it. They all have different names, such as Forward Buffalo (I made that up). Where I see downtown redevelopment, I see Agenda 21. Young people are discouraged from using cars and instead are encouraged to live in expensive high-rises and walk, bike or scooter to work, and not have kids.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    The point is simply that Deborah Tavares has lied to us about what the what the Agenda 21 document says in the same way that she lied to us about every other document she has ever used in support of her claims about the planned extinction of mankind. [/I][/B]
    I didn't read your diatribe, but it's clear you are in favor of Agenda 21 and probably world government also. It reminds me of people who are anti-gun. Every new legislation they say "we're not taking away your guns, just this one" yet if you ask them individually, they admit they don't believe people should be allowed to have any guns.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    MY RESPONSE: Would you prefer that the title of my expose' on this subject be changed to read, "The Agenda 21 Document Is Real, But What Deborah Tavares Says The Agenda 21 Document Says Is A Hoax"? If not, what title would you prefer?
    As I said, she has gotten carried away. But she's performing a valuable service in alerting people to the agenda being pursued by whoever THEY are. They are not necessarily the official government. But they are attempting to drive people out of the countryside and into the cities. I believe they want to set aside vast areas of non-populated areas for fracking, mining, and general rape and pillage. And 50 years from now, if we don't stop it, you will see that she was right. And you are performing a valuable service in point out her exaggerations.
    TomKat,

    I think that snoop4truth's real investigations about Agenda 21 probably trump whatever your beliefs happen to be. Deborah Tavares is doing a huge disservice because she is disseminating and lying about some proposed idea floated somewhere to preserve the environment as an attempt to force us all into concentration camps...and then...kill us, or something. Just because horrible things can and do happen, doesn't mean Agenda 21 is a blue print for genocide.
    I heard about Agenda 21 years ago. Snoop says it wasn't adopted in the US, but in the US I see local planning organizations promoting it. They all have different names, such as Forward Buffalo (I made that up). Where I see downtown redevelopment, I see Agenda 21. Young people are discouraged from using cars and instead are encouraged to live in expensive high-rises and walk, bike or scooter to work, and not have kids.
    Hello TomKat,

    YOUR COMMENT: I heard about Agenda 21 years ago.

    MY RESPONSE: The United Nations suggested Agenda 21 to member nations in 1992. The United States rejected it shortly thereafter. That was almost 30 years ago. So, it would not surprise me if you had heard of Agenda 21 years ago.

    But frankly, the issue is not WHEN you heard of Agenda 21, but WHAT you heard about Agenda 21.

    Did you hear that Agenda 21 was actually a suggestion about protecting the environment?

    Or did you hear that Agenda 21 was a United nations scheme to use diabolical means (like forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space) to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind?

    YOUR COMMENT: Snoop says it wasn't adopted in the US,

    MY RESPONSE: Correct. Agenda 21 was a suggestion that the United States REJECTED almost 30 years ago. So, Agenda 21 is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the United States.

    YOUR COMMENT: But in the US I see local planning organizations promoting it.

    MY RESPONSE: You may see planning organizations incorporating environmentally-friendly elements into their plans, but that DOES NOT mean the they are actually incorporating Agenda 21 itself into their plans. They are not.

    Remember, people like Deborah Tavares do not oppose Agenda 21 because it was environmentally-friendly.

    Instead, people like Deborah Tavares oppose AN IMAGINARY VERSION of Agenda 21 which she falsely claims involves the United Nations using forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind.

    Do you actually see your local planning organizations using forest fires and laser beams on satellites in space to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind?

    OR, do you ACTUALLY see your local planning organizations incorporating generic, environmentally-friendly elements into their plans?

    YOUR COMMENT: They all have different names, such as Forward Buffalo (I made that up). Where I see downtown redevelopment, I see Agenda 21.

    MY RESPONSE: Do you ACTUALLY see local downtown development which actually involves the United Nations using forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, over-populated "Kill Cities" and "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind?

    OR, do you ACTUALLY see downtown development making better use of useless property by converting it to high-end residential property?

    OR, do you ACTUALLY see downtown development bringing LIFE and COMMERCE back into lifeless and impoverished areas, thereby increasing the profits of all of the local businesses and thereby increasing the tax base of the community?

    OR, do you ACTUALLY see smart business people converting something of no value into something of great value in the pursuit of there own profits?

    YOUR COMMENT: Young people are discouraged from using cars and instead are encouraged to live in expensive high-rises and walk, bike or scooter to work, and not have kids.

    MY RESPONSE: Do you ACTUALLY see someone discouraging young people from using cars?

    OR do you ACTUALLY see young people saving a fortune by living where they work and socializing where they work?

    THINK. It's OK.

    With Respect,

    Snoop
    Last edited by snoop4truth; 27th June 2019 at 19:29.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by snoop4truth (here)
    The point is simply that Deborah Tavares has lied to us about what the what the Agenda 21 document says in the same way that she lied to us about every other document she has ever used in support of her claims about the planned extinction of mankind. [/I][/B]
    I didn't read your diatribe, but it's clear you are in favor of Agenda 21 and probably world government also. It reminds me of people who are anti-gun. Every new legislation they say "we're not taking away your guns, just this one" yet if you ask them individually, they admit they don't believe people should be allowed to have any guns.
    Hello TomKat,

    YOUR COMMENT: I didn't read your diatribe,

    MY RESPONSE: No surprise there. You only seek information which validates your belief system. And, the truth will not do that in this instance. Regardless, you have no interest in the truth anyway. You are only interested in your belief system and the delusional claims that support it.

    YOUR COMMENT: It's clear you are in favor of Agenda 21

    MY RESPONSE: It depends WHICH VERSION of Agenda 21 you are talking about.

    If you are talking about Deborah Tavares' IMAGINARY VERSION of Agenda 21 wherein the United Nations is allegedly using forest fires and laser beams from satellites in space to drive us out of our rural and suburban homes and into increasingly-smaller, densely-packed, overpopulated "Kill Cities" or "Smart Cities" in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind, THEN I OPPOSED AGENDA 21.

    On the other hand, if you are talking about the REAL VERSION of Agenda 21 as it actually appears in the original document and which recommends that we not deplete our natural resources at a rate faster than they can recover from being depleted (called "sustainable development") and which recommends that we protect most of the remaining forests, reduce drought and insure an adequate supply of fresh water, THEN I SUPPORT AGENDA 21.

    Just so that you know, the United States was the only nation on planet Earth TO HAVE REJECTED agenda 21. Here in the United States, short term profits are much, much more important than merely protecting the environment for the future of all mankind.

    If it has not already occurred to you, IF WE SAVE THE PLANET, WE SAVE ALL OF MANKIND. IF WE DESTROY THE PLANET, THEN WE WILL CAUSE THE "REAL" EXTINCTION OF MANKIND.

    YOUR COMMENT: And [you] probably [support] world government also.

    MY RESPONSE: Not so. The only subjects that the should ever be governed globally are those very few subjects which are logically impossibly to regulate locally, city-wide, county-wide, county-wide, state-wide and nationally (like global ozone depletion and global climate change, etc.).

    YOUR COMMENT: It reminds me of people who are anti-gun. Every new legislation they say "we're not taking away your guns, just this one" yet if you ask them individually, they admit they don't believe people should be allowed to have any guns.

    MY RESPONSE: As long as there is a second amendment, there will be legal gun ownership in the United States.

    The REAL legal question is how far this second amendment protection goes. When the Constitution was written, firearms were single-shot muskets and every citizen could be called to serve in "a well-regulated militia" which was "necessary" in the "defense the state" (all terms in the second amendment). Now, we have much more deadly firearms and the United States has a military to "defend the state", such that an armed and "well-regulated militia" is no longer "necessary" to the "defense the state".

    So today, do we have a second amendment right to own a rocket propelled grenade launcher if it is not used by a member of a "well regulated militia" in the "defense of the state"?

    So today, do we have a second amendment right to own a military-grade AR-15 with a bump stock trigger mechanism and a 100 round magazine which is not used by a member of a "well regulated militia" in the "defense of the state"?

    So today, does a mentally-ill, repeatedly-violent, convicted-felon have a second amendment right to own military-grade AR-15 with a bump stock trigger mechanism and a 100 round magazine which is not used by a member of a "well regulated militia" in the "defense of the state"?

    Those are questions above my pay grade.

    But, consider this. Gun ownership is not causing climate change anyway. Carbon emissions and deforestation are causing that.

    Gun ownership is not causing the polar ice caps to melt thereby causing the sea level to rise which will put coastal cities across the globe under water and cause mass human migration. Carbon emissions and deforestation are causing that.

    Gun ownership is not causing the extinction of one million species of animals and plants over the next 15 years. Deforestation and the loss of natural habitat are causing that.

    We are systematically destroying our entire planet and there will be consequences.

    There are two ways to deal with this problem. One way, is to pretend it isn't real and to nothing. The other way is to accept the facts and do something. That is what Agenda 21 (and every other nation on planet Earth) was attempting to do when the United States rejected it almost 30 years ago.

    Agenda 21 was not really a United Nations depopulation plan intended to kill us all in furtherance of the planned extinction of mankind.

    Instead, Agenda 21 was actually a suggestion intended to protect the environment so as to prevent the extinction of mankind.

    Accept that truth.

    With Respect,

    Snoop
    Last edited by snoop4truth; 27th June 2019 at 19:25.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Snoop, you are promoting the goals of Agenda 21. It will require coercion as well as incentives to get people to comply with those goals. So of course, you want people's guns, or will do soon. You admit that Agenda 21 is being implemented regardless of the US not signing on. So obviously it is happening from the global level, brought down to the local, by the hidden funding and machinations of hidden rulers. That alone is enough for me to be against it. Paradise, CA was burned up, gone ("paradise lost"). It had never happened before. I would not put it past these globally minded sociopaths to start those fires. Why can't would-be leaders such as yourself just leave everyone else alone?

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    TomKat,

    Please READ what Snoop wrote. Seriously. As far as Paradise goes, just because there are psychopaths in high office doesn't mean the fires were intentional and all kinds of exotic tech was used to start them. The whole monolithic top down, 'they're all trying to kill us,' model of reality is a bit paranoid. There are GOOD people involved in many organizations and systems who can and do put brakes on excesses and abuses of power much of the time.

    Modern forestry practices, people building homes in rural urban interface areas and the wilderness, ongoing drought and decaying electrical grids cause fires. No demonic Flash Gordon psycho fire bugs required. Occam's razor rules in this instance.

    But you believe what you want to believe just please don't try to shut people who are doing real investigative work down. We NEED them.

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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    TomKat,

    Please READ what Snoop wrote. Seriously. As far as Paradise goes, just because there are psychopaths in high office doesn't mean the fires were intentional and all kinds of exotic tech was used to start them. The whole monolithic top down, 'they're all trying to kill us,' model of reality is a bit paranoid. There are GOOD people involved in many organizations and systems who can and do put brakes on excesses and abuses of power much of the time.

    Modern forestry practices, people building homes in rural urban interface areas and the wilderness, ongoing drought and decaying electrical grids cause fires. No demonic Flash Gordon psycho fire bugs required. Occam's razor rules in this instance.

    But you believe what you want to believe just please don't try to shut people who are doing real investigative work down. We NEED them.
    I'm not going to read a bunch of boilerplate text that Snoop dishes out with every reply. The man is on a mission, and I don't want the future he is promoting. I don't like people on Avalon promoting the official agenda of the official psychopaths that run the official media. He's either getting paid or has way more time on his hands than I do.

    Mainstream sources say that chemtrails don't exist, and yet I've sat in my yard and watched a single jet going back and forth spreading them. I saw one just today. Mainstream sources say that Putin won the election for Trump. Mainstream sources spent 2-1/2 years trying to un-do that election. I've been to Paradise and it never looked in any danger of burning up to me. You'll kill a lot of brain cells trying to make official explanations make sense to people around here. But go ahead, be my guest.

  32. Link to Post #59
    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Okay. Have it your way. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or corrects some of the highly speculative and groundless 'theories' out there is aligned with those actively trying to poison you, set you on fire, while trying to take your guns away and reduce carbon emissions. Oh the horror.

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  34. Link to Post #60
    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Devastating effects of hoaxers/cult leaders

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Okay. Have it your way. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or corrects some of the highly speculative and groundless 'theories' out there is aligned with those actively trying to poison you, set you on fire, while trying to take your guns away and reduce carbon emissions. Oh the horror.
    I like to think of Avalon as a sanctuary from all that mainstream propaganda.

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