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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Turmoil in Haiti

    Haiti has been in Turmoil (did anyone know?). See this NYT piece, less than 24 hours old:
    That article's not available to read without subscribing. But the title says it all.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd October 2019 at 10:03.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    There's more, too. Haiti has been in Turmoil (did anyone know?). See this NYT piece, less than 24 hours old:
    That article's not available to read without subscribing. But the title says it all.

    There's a pattern here, if we just can figure out what it is. In Chile, the riots were triggered [merely!] by subway fare hikes, that were later canceled. But that was too late. The people went on the rampage, looting, firing supermarkets, and there were deaths. That's not over at all, by any means.

    In Ecuador, there's good evidence that some of the protests a couple weeks ago were fueled by militant infiltrators from Venezuela and Colombia. But I saw for myself at first hand how local people jumped on the chaos bandwagon to just PROTEST.

    I remarked on that thread that after 11 days, the people brought the government to heel, which is what's supposed to happen.

    Governments are our representatives. NOT our managers.

    But look at Brexit in the UK (this thread). Catalonia, in Spain (this thread). The Yellow Vests in Paris (this thread). People have had enough.

    One wonders what may happen next, and where. A morphic field may be spreading its invisible influence. Or a future historian might write that there was so much injustice and drip-drip-drip repression all over the world, for so long, that in the end the worm just turned.*
    * For non-English-speaking members here: this odd idiom means that someone who usually obeys another person or accepts their bad behavior unexpectedly starts resisting that person and/or expresses their anger.
    In each case, the governments concerned seemed SO out of touch that they had no idea what would happen, and they were totally ambushed by the violent reactions. They just never suspected or anticipated what would be triggered. This could EASILY happen in the UK, is already happening in Catalonia, and could happen in many European countries, also (maybe pretty likely at some point) the US.

    But it won't happen in China (this thread), because the Chinese government have taken early pre-emptive action to make sure the population is docile and emasculated. (Go figure...)
    Great observation about the sentiment of the vast silent majority.

    I don't think it will happen in Canada for reasons I can't put my finger on, and I am not sure this translates well for those who do not live here. Canadians are strange...but...if ever this wild and crazy sentiment caught on here, I think the cities of Canada would turn into a bloodbath. There is a very palpable antimony among the city dwellers here, smoldering quietly under the surface...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    This is the New York Times article referenced by Bill above.
    (Removed my NYT cookie before going to the site)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/w...-violence.html

    Click image for larger version

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    ‘There Is No Hope’: Crisis Pushes Haiti to Brink of Collapse

    By Kirk Semple Photographs by Meredith Kohut
    Oct. 21, 2019

    Haitians say the violence and economic stagnation stemming from a clash between the president and the opposition are worse than anything they have ever experienced.

    Protesters last week in Les Cayes, Haiti, surrounded a vehicle that had been burned in a previous demonstration. Impassable roads have contributed to the country’s emergency.

    Protesters last week in Les Cayes, Haiti, surrounded a vehicle that had been burned in a previous demonstration. Impassable roads have contributed to the country’s emergency.

    LÉOGÂNE, Haiti — The small hospital was down to a single day’s supply of oxygen and had to decide who would get it: the adults recovering from strokes and other ailments, or the newborns clinging to life in the neonatal ward.

    Haiti’s political crisis had forced this awful dilemma — one drama of countless in a nation driven to the brink of collapse.

    A struggle between President Jovenel Moïse and a surging opposition movement demanding his ouster has led to violent demonstrations and barricaded streets across the country, rendering roads impassable and creating a sprawling emergency.

    Caught in the national paralysis, officials at Sainte Croix Hospital were forced to choose who might live and who might die. Fortunately, a truck carrying 40 fresh tanks of oxygen made it through at the last minute, giving the hospital a reprieve.

    “It was scary, really scary,” said Archdeacon Abiade Lozama of the Episcopal Church of Haiti, which owns the hospital. “Every day, things become more difficult, day after day.”

    Though the country has been trapped for years in cycles of political and economic dysfunction, many Haitians say the current crisis is worse than anything they have ever experienced. Lives that were already extremely difficult, here in the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, have become even more so.

    Weeks of unrest around Haiti, coupled with rampant corruption and economic malaise, have led to soaring prices, a disintegration of public services and a galloping sense of insecurity and lawlessness. At least 30 people have been killed in the demonstrations in the past few weeks, including 15 by police officers, according to the United Nations.

    “There is no hope in this country,” said Stamène Molière, 27, an unemployed secretary in the southern coastal town of Les Cayes. “There’s no life anymore.”

    Gas shortages are worsening by the day. Hospitals have cut services or closed entirely. Public transportation has ground to a halt. Businesses have shuttered. Most schools have been closed since early September, leaving millions of children idle. Widespread layoffs have compounded chronic poverty and hunger. Uncertainty hangs over everything.

    Many Haitians with the means to flee have left or are planning to, while most who remain are simply trying to figure out where they are going to get their next meals.

    Haiti was once a strategic ally for the United States, which often played a crucial role here. During the Cold War, American governments supported — albeit at times grudgingly — the authoritarian governments of François Duvalier and his son, Jean-Claude Duvalier, because of their anti-Communist stance.

    In 1994, the Clinton administration sent troops to restore Jean-Bertrand Aristide to power after his ouster as president, but 10 years later, intense pressure from the United States helped push Mr. Aristide out again.

    Now, protesters are criticizing the United States for continuing to stand by Mr. Moïse. The Trump administration has urged respect for the democratic process, but has said little about the unrest in Haiti.

    “If you look at Haitian history, governments are overthrown when the United States turns on them,” said Jake Johnston, a research associate at the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

    The current crisis is a culmination of more than a year of violent protests, and the product, in part, of political acrimony that has seized the nation since Mr. Moïse, a businessman, took office in February 2017 following an electoral process that was marred by delays, allegations of voter fraud and an abysmal voter turnout.

    Outrage over allegations that the government misappropriated billions of dollars meant for social development projects provided the initial impetus for the protests. But opposition leaders have sought to harness the anger to force his ouster, calling for his resignation and the formation of a transitional government.

    The protests intensified in early September, at times turning violent and bringing the capital, Port-au-Prince, and other cities and towns around the country to a standstill.

    “We’re not living,” Destine Wisdeladens, 24, a motorcycle-taxi driver, said at a protest march in Port-au-Prince this month. “There is no security in the country. There’s no food. There’s no hospitals. There’s no school.”

    Mr. Moïse has been defiant, saying in public comments last week that it would be “irresponsible” for him to resign. He has named a commission of politicians to explore solutions to the crisis.

    Amid the current turmoil, daily routines, never a sure thing in this vulnerable country, have been thrown even more deeply into doubt.

    With public transportation having ground to a halt, Alexis Fritzner, 41, a security guard making about $4 per day, walks about 10 miles each way to work at a clothing factory in Port-au-Prince. He has not been paid for more than a month, he said, yet he still goes to work for fear of being fired.

    “It’s because there are no other options,” he said.

    The mounting problems at Sainte Croix Hospital here in Léogâne are emblematic of the crisis. Though the town is only about 20 miles from Port-au-Prince, near-daily barricades have impeded traffic. Suppliers in the capital have been forced to close or have had trouble receiving imports, making medicine hard to get.

    At least one patient at the hospital died in recent days because of a lack of crucial medicine, said the Rev. Jean Michelin St.-Louis, the hospital’s general manager.

    It has been hard to wrangle fuel to run the hospital’s generators, its only power supply, he said. At times, ambulances have been blocked from crossing the barricades despite promises from protest leaders to the contrary. Some of the hospital’s staff members, including the chief surgeon, have not always been able to make it to work because of the protests.

    “It’s the first time I’ve been through such a difficult experience,” Father St.-Louis, 41, said.

    The crisis is particularly stark in Les Cayes, the most populous city in southern Haiti, which has effectively been cut off from the capital by barricades on the main road.

    The city endured a total blackout for nearly two months. The power company started to mete out electricity again earlier this month, though in tiny increments — a few hours on one day, a few more on another.

    The city’s public hospital shut down recently when protesters, angry over the death of one of their comrades, smashed its windows and destroyed cars in its parking lot. After the attack, the staff fled, said Herard Marc Rocky, 37, the hospital’s head of logistics.

    Even before the riot, the hospital was barely functioning. For three weeks, it had been without power after running out of fuel for its generators.

    Archdeacon Lozama, 39, who oversees an Episcopal parish in Les Cayes, said demonstrators forbid him from holding services on two recent Sundays. “We couldn’t open the doors,” he said. “People would burn the church.”

    Thieves have stolen the batteries from solar panels that provide electricity to the parish school. The keyboardist in the church music ensemble was recently wounded by a stray bullet. And protesters manning a barricade took food that Archdeacon Lozama was delivering by truck on behalf of an international charity.

    “There’s no one you can call,” he lamented. “There’s no one in charge.”

    People, he said, are desperate. “As they have nothing, they can destroy everything. They have nothing to lose.”

    Intersections throughout Les Cayes are scarred with the remains of burned barricades made with wood, tires and other debris, vestiges of near-daily protests.

    “I’m hiding out here, I’m hunkering down, I’m not even on my porch,” said Marie Prephanie Pauldor Delicat, 67, the retired headmistress of a kindergarten in Les Cayes. “I’m scared of the people.”

    Shop owners say sales have plummeted. Violent demonstrations have forced them to curtail their hours, and it has become harder to restock merchandise.

    Several regional opposition leaders, in an interview at a dormant nightclub in Les Cayes, blamed infiltrators sympathetic to the government for the violence. But they defended the roadblocks, saying they helped thwart the movement of security forces accused of aggressions against residents.

    “We get the support of the population despite it all, because all the population has the same demand: the departure of Jovenel Moïse,” said Anthony Cyrion, a lawyer.

    A wellspring of opposition in Les Cayes is La Savane, one of its most forlorn neighborhoods, where simple, rough-hewed homes line unpaved roads and the stench of open sewers commingles with the salty perfume of the Caribbean Sea.

    On a visit this month, reporters from The New York Times were surrounded by crowds of desperate and angry residents, each with a list of grievances against the government and accounts of utter despair.

    One young man opened his shirt to reveal a bullet wound in his shoulder. Another showed where a bullet had hit his leg. They blamed the police.

    “We are all victims in many ways!” shouted Lys Isguinue, 48. “We are victims under the sticks of the police! We are victims of tear gas! We are victims because we cannot eat! We are victims because we cannot sleep!”

    Venise Jules, 55, a cleaning woman at a grade school and the mother of Ms. Molière, the unemployed secretary, said her entire family had voted for Mr. Moïse.

    “He said everything would change,” she recalled. “We would have food on our plates, we would have electricity 24/7, we would have jobs for our children and salaries would increase.”

    Ms. Jules, three of her five children and a cousin live in a narrow house in La Savane made from mud and stone. The corrugated metal roof leaks when it rains. The bathroom is an outhouse with a hole in the ground. With no running water, the family has to fill buckets at a public tap several blocks away.

    They cook over coal — when they have something to cook.

    “I didn’t put anything on the fire today,” Ms. Jules said. It had been a full day since she had eaten anything.

    With the schools closed, Ms. Jules had been without work — or an income — for weeks. Even when she worked, earning $47 per month, she had not been able to amass any savings. Now she sends her children to eat at the homes of friends with something to spare.

    Her despair, she said, has driven her to consider suicide.

    On a recent evening, she sat with Ms. Molière, her daughter, in their house as it sank into the shadows of the night. Ms. Molière began to cry softly. Seeing her tears, Ms. Jules began to cry as well.

    “It’s not only that we’re hungry for bread and water,” Ms. Molière said. “We’re hungry for the development of Haiti.”

    “Haiti is very fragile,” she said.

    Harold Isaac and Meridith Kohut contributed reporting.
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    The Haitian president, Jovenel Moise, has been assassinated at his home.
    Haitian president assassinated by gunmen at home, state of emergency declared
    • Overnight killing of Jovenel Moise was 'barbaric act' -PM
    • State of emergency invoked amid confusion over succession
    • Comes amid rampant gang violence, humanitarian crisis
    • Attack condemned by U.S., nearby Latin American states
    • Haiti plagued by poverty, political unrest, shortages
    PORT-AU-PRINCE, July 7 (Reuters) - Haitian President Jovenel Moise was shot dead by unidentified attackers in his private residence overnight in a "barbaric act", the government said on Wednesday, stirring fears of escalating turmoil in the impoverished Caribbean nation.

    The assassination, which drew condemnation from Washington and neighboring Latin American countries, coincided with a spate of gang violence in Port-au-Prince in recent months fueled by a growing humanitarian crisis and political unrest. The disorder has turned many districts of the capital into no-go zones.

    Interim Prime Minister Claude Joseph said in televised remarks after chairing a cabinet meeting that the government had declared a state of emergency amid confusion over who would take over the reins of the country. "My compatriots, remain calm because the situation is under control," he said.

    The 53-year-old president's wife, Martine Moise, was also shot in the attack at around 1 a.m. local time (0500 GMT) at the couple's home in the hills above Port-au-Prince, Joseph said in a statement. She was receiving medical treatment.

    "A group of unidentified individuals, some of them speaking Spanish, attacked the private residence of the president of the republic and thus fatally wounded the head of state,” he said.

    Joseph said the police and army had the security situation under control. The streets of the usually bustling capital of 1 million people were quiet and empty on Wednesday morning after the attack and intermittent gunfire overnight.

    "All measures are being taken to guarantee the continuity of the state and to protect the nation," Joseph said.

    But with Haiti politically polarized and facing growing hunger, fears of a breakdown in order are spreading. The Dominican Republic said it was closing the border it shares with Haiti on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola.

    "This crime is an attack against the democratic order of Haiti and the region," Dominican Republic President Luis Abinader said.



    Leaders worldwide condemned the attack and appealed for calm. The United States described it as a "horrific crime" while Colombian President Ivan Duque called upon the Organization of American States to dispatch a mission to Haiti to "guarantee democratic order".

    It was unclear who would succeed Moise as president. He had appointed a new prime minister this week who has yet to be sworn in. The head of the Supreme Court of Justice - another contender for the job, according to the constitution - died last month of COVID-19 and has yet to be replaced.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Is it too much to hope that ‘new brooms sweep clean’? Or is there another layer of corruption in the queue to take over?
    Haiti has always been ‘tarred’ with a negative brush, through no fault of its own, but there are nefarious factions always hovering in the wings, remember the Clintons, the child trafficking, the money laundering? It doesn’t always have to be this way.
    No more juju or voodoo, common sense surely should prevail soonest.
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    has three capital letters writtin all over it .

    how sad and barbaric

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Quote A group of unidentified individuals, some of them speaking Spanish,
    They forgot to mention that the other ones were speaking English

    Interesting that some sites only had that same quote, but other's have the full one, without the rewording and missing fact. Like here:
    Quote "A group of individuals who have not been identified, some of whom were speaking Spanish and English, attacked the private residence of the President of the Republic and fatally injured the Head of State," Joseph said in a statement.
    https://www.wionews.com/world/haiti-...tribute-396479


    He had been threatened before multiple times, he refused to move to a secure location, even if the security groups told him he was in risk living there, he did not mind. Also he was an illegal president, he got only like 6% of the vote but still won by like 38%, which caused massive protests back then, he was not a legal government, was selected by the previous president by the "point a finger" method, and people knew, he had it coming in several ways. He enriched his family while poverty grew badly across the country, and made business out of that


    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The Haitian president, Jovenel Moise, has been assassinated at his home.
    Haitian president assassinated by gunmen at home, state of emergency declared
    • Overnight killing of Jovenel Moise was 'barbaric act' -PM
    • State of emergency invoked amid confusion over succession
    • Comes amid rampant gang violence, humanitarian crisis
    • Attack condemned by U.S., nearby Latin American states
    • Haiti plagued by poverty, political unrest, shortages
    PORT-AU-PRINCE, July 7 (Reuters) - Haitian President Jovenel Moise was shot dead by unidentified attackers in his private residence overnight in a "barbaric act", the government said on Wednesday, stirring fears of escalating turmoil in the impoverished Caribbean nation.

    The assassination, which drew condemnation from Washington and neighboring Latin American countries, coincided with a spate of gang violence in Port-au-Prince in recent months fueled by a growing humanitarian crisis and political unrest. The disorder has turned many districts of the capital into no-go zones.

    Interim Prime Minister Claude Joseph said in televised remarks after chairing a cabinet meeting that the government had declared a state of emergency amid confusion over who would take over the reins of the country. "My compatriots, remain calm because the situation is under control," he said.

    The 53-year-old president's wife, Martine Moise, was also shot in the attack at around 1 a.m. local time (0500 GMT) at the couple's home in the hills above Port-au-Prince, Joseph said in a statement. She was receiving medical treatment.

    "A group of unidentified individuals, some of them speaking Spanish, attacked the private residence of the president of the republic and thus fatally wounded the head of state,” he said.

    Joseph said the police and army had the security situation under control. The streets of the usually bustling capital of 1 million people were quiet and empty on Wednesday morning after the attack and intermittent gunfire overnight.

    "All measures are being taken to guarantee the continuity of the state and to protect the nation," Joseph said.

    But with Haiti politically polarized and facing growing hunger, fears of a breakdown in order are spreading. The Dominican Republic said it was closing the border it shares with Haiti on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola.

    "This crime is an attack against the democratic order of Haiti and the region," Dominican Republic President Luis Abinader said.



    Leaders worldwide condemned the attack and appealed for calm. The United States described it as a "horrific crime" while Colombian President Ivan Duque called upon the Organization of American States to dispatch a mission to Haiti to "guarantee democratic order".

    It was unclear who would succeed Moise as president. He had appointed a new prime minister this week who has yet to be sworn in. The head of the Supreme Court of Justice - another contender for the job, according to the constitution - died last month of COVID-19 and has yet to be replaced.
    Last edited by Mashika; 7th July 2021 at 21:33.
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote A group of unidentified individuals, some of them speaking Spanish
    They forgot to mention that the other ones were speaking English
    Of interest, maybe:
    Haiti lacks diversity in terms of the languages spoken in the country. French and Haitian Creole are the only two languages spoken by most of the population. However, a small segment of the population is conversant with foreign languages, such as Spanish and English.

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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Edited my previous post to show the actual original quote, i find it odd that it was edited to removed that part from what the PM said, because why remove that specific part?

    Quote "A group of individuals who have not been identified, some of whom were speaking Spanish and English, attacked the private residence of the President of the Republic and fatally injured the Head of State," Joseph said in a statement.
    https://www.wionews.com/world/haiti-...tribute-396479

    Also see Yahoo news for example:
    Quote The government did not identify the perpetrators but said some of them were speaking Spanish.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/president...100229552.html

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote A group of unidentified individuals, some of them speaking Spanish
    They forgot to mention that the other ones were speaking English
    Of interest, maybe:
    Haiti lacks diversity in terms of the languages spoken in the country. French and Haitian Creole are the only two languages spoken by most of the population. However, a small segment of the population is conversant with foreign languages, such as Spanish and English.
    Last edited by Mashika; 7th July 2021 at 21:37.
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    Default Re: Turmoil in Haiti

    Some events happening on Haiti

    US troops requested right after the murder of the president
    https://apnews.com/article/business-...ffb0e5eef9c506

    And, mercenaries were Colombian and at least 2, were US-Haitian citizens. Then this happens, the agency that hired the mercenaries, belongs to Antonino Intriago, one close associate of Juan Guaido, the "interim" president of Venezuela selected and recognized by the US as such. Why would this person be involved in the killing of another country's president?

    The flight records show these people got into Haiti at least 2 months before, so it wasn't just a random thing really, it had been very carefully planned for months

    Check this twitter thread, the business is located on Miami, Florida, there's some odd things going on there
    https://twitter.com/APjoshgoodman/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

    One of the guys that was floored, her sister posted a picture of him with the uniform of that business
    https://twitter.com/APjoshgoodman/st...457824773?s=20

    Quote CTU is run by Venezuelan-born Antonio Intriago, who registered the company in 2019. He did not respond to requests for comment.

    Intriago is affiliated with other Florida entities: the Counter Terrorist Unit Federal Academy, the Venezuelan American National Council and Doral Food
    https://twitter.com/APjoshgoodman/st...862104578?s=20

    Why did the mercenaries decide to go invade the Taiwan embassy after killing the president?
    Last edited by Mashika; 10th July 2021 at 20:45.
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