+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 31 of 31

Thread: How Scientology auditing works

  1. Link to Post #21
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,560 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    Are the RON's Orgs running processes without reads on the meter as the site claims? What comes to mind is that all flows if there are flows being run on a process on the grades, all 3 or 4 are run to complete the process, even if there is no verifiable read on the meter on a or more flows. Am I misinterpreting what is being said that the RONS Orgs are doing concerning processing?
    I don't know if you're misinterpreting anything or not! But 100% for sure, in Ron's Org no process would ever be run if there was no charge on the wording or the question.

    Why would any process be run if there was no charge on the item? That would be any of an invalidation, an evaluation, or an enforcement, and very probably all three.

    The real-world everyday analogy would be just a little tiny bit like being wrongly accused of doing something one hadn't done at all. Nothing would come of that except upset and protest, and the creation of charge that was never there in the first place.

    If one thinks about this all logically, from a handful of very basic principles, it's not too hard to figure it all out. One of the problems in the 'Church' was auditors doing what they were told (or even ordered) to do without having the responsibility (or even the training) to question it all for themselves. This is exactly how so much harm was done to so many people.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    acc355 (16th November 2019), Cara (17th November 2019), fractal being (27th May 2020), Kryztian (17th November 2019), raregem (18th November 2019), Yoda (17th November 2019)

  3. Link to Post #22
    United States Avalon Member James Newell's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th July 2016
    Posts
    355
    Thanks
    482
    Thanked 1,912 times in 340 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    There are whole courses that teach how to use and operate an emeter. The drills developed get you very acquainted with the different manifestations of the needle and meter.

    It is first recommended to get your communication training routines in (TR's) it helps in auditing and getting and recognizing when reads occur.

    A well trained auditor usually gets more reads and the auditing goes easier when his Tr's are in.

    These are called the basics, it is a bit like having gas in the car before you start the motor.

  4. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to James Newell For This Post:

    4evrneo (18th November 2019), acc355 (18th November 2019), Bill Ryan (17th November 2019), Cara (18th November 2019), fractal being (27th May 2020), raregem (18th November 2019)

  5. Link to Post #23
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,560 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    http://scientolipedia.org/info/Readi...ting_Questions

    This has cleared up my confusion concerning the use of the meter on the bridge. Note for those who are unfamiliar with the terms (I am quite unfamiliar with many of the e-meter manifestations as I have not been trained) the info is technical.
    Thanks! And yes, that's very detailed and technical indeed. Basically, in that article highly trained auditors are talking to other highly trained auditors. Anyone who's totally new to all this who tries to make sense of it all might well get quite a headache. (A real one, and that's not a joke!)

    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    There are whole courses that teach how to use and operate an emeter.
    Yes, it's no small thing. All I've been trying to do in this thread is present a few of the the most basic principles, in simple language, to try to offer an idea of how an auditing session works, and how the meter can be very helpful in that.

    The real takeaway from that dense article is that the communication between the auditor and client is the most important ('senior') factor that makes it all work. The meter merely supports that. In many cases, it's not even strictly necessary.

    Here's an example, this time not a nonsense one. Maybe quite a real instance!

    The client comes to the auditor for the session, and they're a little upset (or maybe, very upset) — because their neighbor was a jerk and broke their lawnmower, or they lost a $100 bill somewhere on the street, or maybe they even got fired from their job last week.

    Or anything at all like that that could happens to any of us. But sometimes, if the issue is more serious and majorly impactful (like a bereavement, a trauma, or some other really bad news), the 'charge' can persist for a long time and really does need addressing to help 'release' it.

    So the upset client immediately tells the auditor what's happened, and what their interest and attention is on. It's obvious. There's no need to consult the meter to check anything! The client knows exactly what's wrong, and has already laid it all out.

    As the article says, the meter can be useful to verify when the process is complete (if that's not totally certain for any reason), and like any other kind of 'detector', it can be very useful in hunting down emotional charge that's been suppressed or is somehow NOT in plain view. For instance, if the client is upset but is not sure exactly why. The meter can be extremely useful then.

    But as a rule of thumb, the meter is always 'junior' to the personal two-way communication between the auditor and the client. And it's definitely do-able to run sessions without a meter at all.

    To offer a real-world instance of that, I'm currently auditing a friend on a variety of issues, over the internet, and there's no meter involved whatsoever. What really helps there is that my friend has done some auditing before, and is very bright and aware, so they know what's involved and they understand exactly how it all works.

    That enables us to be a very efficient, co-operating team. And in several dozen hours of auditing so far, it's all gone smoothly and perfectly. We've successfully handled a number of issues, some of which had been around for quite a while. And that's with no meter involved at all.

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    4evrneo (18th November 2019), acc355 (18th November 2019), Cara (18th November 2019), fractal being (27th May 2020), Michi (17th November 2019), Yoda (17th November 2019)

  7. Link to Post #24
    United States Avalon Member 4evrneo's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th August 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    56
    Posts
    515
    Thanks
    11,364
    Thanked 3,384 times in 492 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Forgive me if this has been answered. Once a charge is located, how exactly is it removed/resolved?

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to 4evrneo For This Post:

    acc355 (18th November 2019), Bill Ryan (18th November 2019), Cara (18th November 2019)

  9. Link to Post #25
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,560 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by 4evrneo (here)
    Forgive me if this has been answered. Once a charge is located, how exactly is it removed/resolved?
    Thanks for the question! It's a little hard to explain if one's not actually experienced this. But in various forms, the commonality of what happens is this.

    An incident (an event which is 'charged', like an accident that happened a while back), or maybe a topic (like 'dogs', if one had a fear of dogs), or even a period of time in one's life (like "when I was living in Mongolia"), are all examined closely from every angle. It's questions in the process or processes which have that function of doing the detailed examining.

    The analogy is like trying to figure out what's happening in a dark corner of the attic, or maybe under the bed, where one can't see it very well. It's hard to see what's going on, or figure it out.

    So the analogy of what the processes do is cast a very bright light on that area. The result is that one can see it really clearly, much more clearly than one could before. That might not happen immediately, because one might have to move the flashlight around a little to see what's happening from a variety of angles or perspectives.

    But what always happens, 100% every time, is that after a little while what wasn't clear before becomes totally clear. The result is a new understanding.

    It's like "Ah, so that's what actually happened!" or "Gee, now I see what I did that actually caused that to occur!" Or maybe even something like "All these years I'd been blaming myself. Now I see that it was never my fault at all!"

    As the adage says, it's the truth that sets one free. But first, one has to discover what the truth is. It might be something from a while back that's forgotten or unknown or repressed, or it may have been some "untruth" that one convinced oneself, or was convinced by someone else, to believe.

    An example might be living with a narcissistic sociopath who always convinced you that everything was your fault, when it was never your fault at all.

    Or a teacher that convinced you you were stupid, when you were the brightest kid in the room but were just bored with school all the time. (These "untruths" we can "buy" about ourselves can often do a lot of damage, and there's usually a LOT of "charge" connected with all that.)

    When that new thought, or new understanding, or new realization, or new truth, suddenly happens, it's like a kind of 'lightbulb moment'. That's when the charge suddenly lifts and goes.

    In scientology, that's often colloquially called a 'release'. It's a good word, because it's like suddenly this thing isn't 'gripping' you any more. But in 'technical' terms, there's a difference between a 'release' and an 'erasure', though they both feel exactly the same.

    A technical release is when the unwanted charge 'moves away' and just feels like it isn't there any more. That's a good thing, of course! But in theory, it could come back sometime, if it's triggered again by something in life, even though a release may be stable for 10,000 lifetimes.

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.

    Here's an example of a release of charge, to illustrate the difference. You lend your neighbor your lawnmower, and he breaks it, and then refuses to pay or make amends, or even apologize, because he blames you and he's a jerk and he's lying. That could be upsetting. (Of course, for anyone!)

    So there are processes that can be run that will release that charge. It doesn't fix the lawnmower, but you feel a lot better about it. It's like, you put that incident behind you and don't lose any more sleep over your jerk of a neighbor. It's HIS problem that he's a jerk. Not yours. He has to live with that, every day. You don't! (Etc. )

    So that charge is all released. But if 10 years later, you're now in a different city, and you lend your lawnmower (or your car, or your blender, or your phone) to a different neighbor, and then THEY break that — the charge may come back. (And, that upset can be handled again. But it may also simply be released again.)

    Of course, people often have "Aha!" moments about things without any scientology auditing! And this can happen in regular counseling as well. Or just talking to a friend who's a good listener! But what will happen in scientology auditing is that, when it's properly done, it will ALWAYS ALWAYS release the charge. It only ever fails to do that when it's not properly applied for some reason.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th November 2019 at 16:40.

  10. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    4evrneo (18th November 2019), acc355 (18th November 2019), Cara (18th November 2019), fractal being (27th May 2020), Yoda (19th November 2019)

  11. Link to Post #26
    United States Avalon Member 4evrneo's Avatar
    Join Date
    10th August 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Age
    56
    Posts
    515
    Thanks
    11,364
    Thanked 3,384 times in 492 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.
    It sounds similar to what EMDR can accomplish by completely erasing an incident. Do you know what difference if any there is between the two?

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4evrneo For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (18th November 2019), Cara (19th November 2019)

  13. Link to Post #27
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,560 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by 4evrneo (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.
    It sounds similar to what EMDR can accomplish by completely erasing an incident. Do you know what difference if any there is between the two?
    Sorry! I'm really not familiar with EMDR. (Their website is here.) I'd welcome any other answers to the question.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    4evrneo (18th November 2019), Cara (19th November 2019), raregem (18th November 2019), Yoda (19th November 2019)

  15. Link to Post #28
    Netherlands Avalon Member
    Join Date
    26th October 2019
    Posts
    151
    Thanks
    998
    Thanked 1,115 times in 139 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Hi Bill,

    When I was 22 I was in LA and someone on the street was sitting there with such a meter and invited me to do a test, just for ‘fun’. I didn’t know he was from Scientology so I just thought “why not”, so I got audited. I was surprised he seemed to see exactly when I was thinking about a childhood pain and was quite impressed. He said, yes, go back to what you wre just thinking about, so I tried him and said “I don’t know what you mean.” Everytime my mind only wandered a bit to that part he said, “now you’re thinking about it again, and again, yes now too.” I wanted to deny it but it really seemed to pick up my very subtle discomfort connected to the subject. As I was sitting there I realised this was Scientology and when he offered me to go further with the process I respectfully declined. The look on this man’s face was scary when he saw I really didn’t want to go further. If looks could kill, I would be so dead... Scientology has always given me the creeps so that’s why I want to ask you the following, since I do have respect for your work with Camelot and Avalon:

    I remember reading a statement from you years ago about Scientology that you were involved with it, but not with the main organisation. Is that correct? I would like to know your views about the orginisation since the subject always intrigued me. I have seen the documentaries on how people who get out are treated and it ain’t pretty.. I do find the auditing part intrigueing though, that’s why I am interested to read all this on this topic.

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BoR For This Post:

    acc355 (18th November 2019), Bill Ryan (18th November 2019), Cara (19th November 2019), raregem (18th November 2019)

  17. Link to Post #29
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,560 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by BoR (here)
    Hi Bill,

    When I was 22 I was in LA and someone on the street was sitting there with such a meter and invited me to do a test, just for ‘fun’. I didn’t know he was from Scientology so I just thought “why not”, so I got audited. I was surprised he seemed to see exactly when I was thinking about a childhood pain and was quite impressed. He said, yes, go back to what you wre just thinking about, so I tried him and said “I don’t know what you mean.” Everytime my mind only wandered a bit to that part he said, “now you’re thinking about it again, and again, yes now too.” I wanted to deny it but it really seemed to pick up my very subtle discomfort connected to the subject. As I was sitting there I realised this was Scientology and when he offered me to go further with the process I respectfully declined. The look on this man’s face was scary when he saw I really didn’t want to go further. If looks could kill, I would be so dead... Scientology has always given me the creeps so that’s why I want to ask you the following, since I do have respect for your work with Camelot and Avalon:

    I remember reading a statement from you years ago about Scientology that you were involved with it, but not with the main organisation. Is that correct? I would like to know your views about the orginisation since the subject always intrigued me. I have seen the documentaries on how people who get out are treated and it ain’t pretty.. I do find the auditing part intrigueing though, that’s why I am interested to read all this on this topic.
    Thanks for the story! Yes, what was happening there was that the E-meter the guy was using was very accurately picking up the charge on the childhood pain. It really is super-sensitive. And clearly, he knew how to use it.

    But (if you read my long post #31 above), it's not only one's lawnmower-breaking neighbor that can be a jerk. Scientology auditors can be jerks, too.

    There's no insurance against that, except (in my strong recommendation) to not go anywhere near the Church of Scientology, where jerks (or worse!) proliferate. They are very often truly controlling and manipulative, and what you encountered was an example of that.

    Embarking on anything at all with the Church of Scientology could cost you your friends, your family, your life savings, and even your sanity. I don't exaggerate. There are some good individuals in there (a few!), usually very caught up in it and finding it near-impossible to escape. But as an organization, they're truly dangerous.

    It's all hard for many to understand, because auditing really does work — and sometimes dramatically and miraculously, where nothing else could. But it has to be in the right ethical and well-trained hands. A scientology auditor who's a jerk (or worse) can also do you a LOT of very serious harm.

  18. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    acc355 (18th November 2019), BoR (18th November 2019), Cara (19th November 2019), happyuk (19th November 2019), Wind (24th November 2019), Yoda (19th November 2019)

  19. Link to Post #30
    Netherlands Avalon Member
    Join Date
    26th October 2019
    Posts
    151
    Thanks
    998
    Thanked 1,115 times in 139 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Thanks Bill for the clarification.

    This was indeed obviously someone from the Church, as he pointed out his church was 'over there', pointing across the street where indeed a Scientology Church was located, which I hadn't seen before he pointed it out.

    It's too bad something that actually works has gotten such a bad name because of some people who made a cult out of it and have gone too far exploiting it and trying to brainwash people.

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BoR For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (18th November 2019), Cara (19th November 2019), happyuk (19th November 2019)

  21. Link to Post #31
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    19th March 2016
    Posts
    1,717
    Thanks
    22,191
    Thanked 9,240 times in 1,612 posts

    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    I listened to Mike Rinder on C2C last night and only caught the first twenty minutes. He said he had to sign a one-billion-year contract. Does that have a nonhuman origin? He was with the church for over forty years and with the Sea Organization. Peter Moon was also with Sea Org and he didn't state this in his book The Montauk Book of the Dead but I got the impression TPTB, and the security agencies came up with the plan to remove Hubbard and install Miscavige. IMO the reason was his followers were being taught how to leave their bodies in a process called exteriorization and they could get into everything.

    Mike Rinder's Blog

    10/14/22 (9:35)
    Last edited by Inversion; 17th October 2022 at 19:42.

  22. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Inversion For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (18th October 2022), Bluegreen (18th October 2022), Kryztian (17th October 2022)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts