How reliable are the COVID-19 tests?

[Reinhard]

Now, THIS is a very important answer to my initial question
....a MUST SEE contribution on the validity on the PSR test AND on the exosomes, e.g: COVID 19 being the REACTION (on toxins etc), not the CAUSE.....very interesting !!!

(at least) one Question remains: "Could the 'jumping' of the 'virus' just be a reaction on common/regional stress factors?"

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8D...ature=youtu.be

Reinhard

Posted by Reinhard (here)
Agape: thank you for that clear input........helps even an non-expert like myself to understand what we are dealing with!

Reinhard

Posted by Agape (here)
Sorry I’ve closed couple of good research pages on the topic last night due to bad weather.

These virological test are getting more refined so more reliable than any previous virological tests. However, according to latest observations of epidemiologists working “in the field” it may take up to two weeks for some individuals to develop antibodies against the virus.
Some people develop very low immune response or perhaps, fall right under measurable drop line even then they are still carriers and potential transmitters of viruses.

The coronavirus binds to cell walls, talking of soft and easy to penetrate epithelial cells in the fore front that is nasal and breathing tubes using RNA lipoprotein based enzyme the reverse-transcriptase that binds to interleukin receptors in the cell wall.
The coronavirus offers a deceitful information to the cell wall that looks like “tasty fat” for example but instead it’s an invading RNA.
The trick of good immunity system is too recognise “an alien invader” to the body and not to mistake it for “food”.

Once your body inspects and analyses the “alien agent” for sufficient amount of time it usually triggers sufficient immune response towards it and that’s a measurable response.

Remind us again that we carry thousands of viral and bacterial strands in our bodies at all times( depending where we have moved and travelled around the globe) and many people still carry part of the initial microbiome donated by their mothers at birth and other relatives who looked after them.
( unless you grew up with wolves and then your microbiome would be part of theirs to huge degree).

It’s been so taught previously that we all carry at least one copy of even the most dangerous microbes in our bodies( think anthrax) but are harmless to us in small numbers usually coinhabiting some other harmless bacterial family,
their presence in our environments is extremely diluted so mostly harmless to us.

People are being admitted to hospitals based on the acuteness of symptoms rather than these tests so the amount of “infected population” out there is logically times bigger than numbers confirmed.

[Luke Holiday]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xBLqbci-gqI

The one and only Jon Rappoport discussing the amazingly corrupt financially incentivized diagnositics going on in hospitals today...

Share far and wide


Be well

Luke

[onawah]

My conversation with State Senator and doctor who exposes Medicare payouts for COVID-19 patients
As you’ll see by end of this article, the specific decisions about money mentioned here affect life and death outcomes for patients.
by Jon Rappoport
April 12, 2020
https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020...d-19-patients/

"A state senator has suddenly come out of nowhere and made big news.

My conversation with Minnesota State Senator, Dr. Scott Jensen, took place after I read the explosive statement he made to FOX News, on April 9th. So let’s start with his earlier FOX statement [1]:

“Right now Medicare has determined that if you have a COVID-19 admission to the hospital you’ll get paid $13,000. If that COVID-19 patient goes on a ventilator, you get $39,000; three times as much. Nobody can tell me, after 35 years in the world of medicine, that sometimes those kinds of things [don’t] [have] impact on what we do…”

I reached out to Senator Jensen, and obtained clarification. Jensen told me his remark pertained to patients with Medicare coverage. And the 2 payouts he mentioned are standard insurance payments from Medicare which would go to the hospital.

Of course, he explained, some hospitals have a pay-share plan with their staff doctors. Therefore, a windfall for the hospital is passed along to those doctors.

Jensen told me: Take a Medicare patient who is diagnosed with simple non-COVID pneumonia. The hospital would receive a one-time Medicare lump-sum payout of $4600.

However, if that Medicare patient is diagnosed with COVID-19 pneumonia, the Medicare coverage is a one-time $13,000 payment. And if the hospital puts that COVID-19 pneumonia patient on a ventilator, the one-time payment is $39,000. NOTE: It doesn’t matter how long these patients stay in hospital—there is only going to be one lump-sum insurance payment.

So, I infer, there are several types of financial incentives for hospitals—

ONE: Diagnose as many people as possible with COVID-19.

TWO: Diagnose as many people as possible with COVID-19 who have light symptoms—making it easy to move them out of the hospital quickly.

THREE: Put as many COVID patients as possible on ventilators for as short a time as possible.

Under the heading of “diagnose as many patients as possible with COVID-19,” there is also the key question of what constitutes “a COVID-19 patient”—and how the use of that label can be multiplied and manipulated. Senator Jensen made a few choice comments to FOX on this subject as well.

From FOX News: “Dr. Scott Jensen, a Minnesota family physician who is also a Republican state senator, told ‘The Ingraham Angle’ Wednesday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) guidelines for doctors to certify whether a patient has died of coronavirus are ‘ridiculous’ and could be misleading the public.”

“Host Laura Ingraham read Jensen the [CDC] guidelines, which say: ‘In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID cannot be made but is suspected or likely (e.g. the circumstances are compelling with a reasonable degree of certainty) it is acceptable to report COVID-19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.'”

“In response, Jensen told Ingraham the CDC’s death certificate manual tells physicians to focus on ‘precision and specificity,’ but the coronavirus death certification guidance runs completely counter to that axiom.”

“’The idea that we are going to allow people to massage and sort of game the numbers is a real issue because we are going to undermine the [public] trust,’ he said. ‘And right now as we see politicians doing things that aren’t necessarily motivated on fact and science, their trust in politicians is already wearing thin’.”

“…Jensen then told Ingraham that under the CDC guidelines, a patient who died after being hit by a bus and tested positive for coronavirus would be listed as having presumed to have died from the virus regardless of whatever damage was caused by the bus.”

“…Jensen also reacted to Dr. Anthony Fauci’s response to a question about the potential for the number of coronavirus deaths being ‘padded,’ in which the NIAID director described the prevalence of ‘conspiracy theories’ during ‘challenging’ times in public health.”

“’I would remind him that anytime health care intersects with dollars it gets awkward,’ Jensen said.”

Here is where everything Scott Jensen is saying can turn very grim—

As I’ve reported [2], New York ER doctor, Cameron Kyle-Sidell [3], has made public statements about the misuse of ventilators with supposed COVID-19 patients. He’s stated that some of these patients actually have functioning lungs. Their immediate and dire life-threatening situation is straight oxygen deficit, as if they have high-altitude sickness. But pressure on the lungs, applied by the use of ventilators via standard rigid protocols, he says, can cause damage, and even death.

Imagine what would happen if another way—NOT ventilators—was found to usefully and safely deliver oxygen to these patients.

The hospitals wouldn’t get their huge $39,000 payout for each Medicare patient put on a ventilator.

What do you think a hospital would say…what decision would the hospital make…would the hospital allow a better and safer and necessary delivery system for oxygen? For every labeled “COVID-19 patient” whose desperate emergency is a straight deficit of oxygen?

Would the hospital forego all those huge Medicare coverage payouts?"

SOURCES:
[1]: Minnesota doctor blasts ‘ridiculous’ CDC coronavirus death count guidelines
[2]: COVID and a 5G connection?
[3]: Dr Cameron Kyle Sidell. E R & Critical Care Dr From NYC

[greybeard]

Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

I think that information put out by Jon Rappoport, posted by quite a few, is self explanatory and true.
Thanks to onawah, Luke and others for painstakingly pointing this out.
I would also point to the David Icke video that was banned but available--saved on Avalon.
Not a follower of David but he is making sense and researches properly.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

I think that information put out by Jon Rappoport, posted by quite a few, is self explanatory and true.
Thanks to onawah, Luke and others for painstakingly pointing this out.
I would also point to the David Icke video that was banned but available--saved on Avalon.
Not a follower of David but he is making sense and researches properly.

Chris

~~~

Chris, please listen. There are different ways of being in denial.

It doesn't matter if the current global scenario is caused by a new virus or by a magic spell. It changes nothing at all.

One person I know very well indeed told me a few minutes ago about their friend in the Scottish Borders who's just about to die. They're waiting for the news any day, any hour.

This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

[greybeard]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

I think that information put out by Jon Rappoport, posted by quite a few, is self explanatory and true.
Thanks to onawah, Luke and others for painstakingly pointing this out.
I would also point to the David Icke video that was banned but available--saved on Avalon.
Not a follower of David but he is making sense and researches properly.

Chris

~~~

Chris, please listen. There are different ways of being in denial.

It doesn't matter if the current global scenario is caused by a new virus or by a magic spell. It changes nothing at all.

One person I know very well indeed told me a few minutes ago about their friend in the Scottish Borders who's just about to die. They're waiting for the news any day, any hour.

This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

What exactly in my post are you disagreeing with Bill?
Have you actually listened to Jon Rappoport?
What about the Icke video?
A lot of people die at this time of year.

There is no denying on my part that there is a real situation.
There is no denying that there is a real agenda.
I am not in denial of any kind --im all to aware of what is happening -- people are dying.

That agenda is working because of inflation of the figures -- leading to fear and therefore lockdown is justified.
The untold miseries of millions now out of work -- the upsurge of suicides that will follow-- people dying due to urgent operation being postponed -- this is the real world.
Do you see anything in the UK news apparat from stories about virus?
The degree of media focus shouts out loud --who owns the media?
With respect
Chris

[silvanelf]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

You should be a bit more specific, because otherwise some people ignore the crucial point:

1. There's a real and out-of-the-ordinary situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

But here we will see the first split. Some people argue that there is nothing out of the ordinary, for example look at the claim "it's similar to the common flue." Now if we try to describe the "outbreak" in more detail, we will see more disagreements. Is it a contagious outbreak or not? Even if we consider only questions that really matter, there are different opinions here on the forum.

All of this is a well-known problem: most information is based on secondary sources (especially any mainstream or alternative media). But there are many contradictory snippets of information and many gaps between them. How do you decide what is trustworthy?

[greybeard]

Posted by silvanelf (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

You should be a bit more specific, because otherwise some people ignore the crucial point:

1. There's a real and out-of-the-ordinary situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

But here we will see the first split. Some people argue that there is nothing out of the ordinary, for example look at the claim "it's similar to the common flue." Now if we try to describe the "outbreak" in more detail, we will see more disagreements. Is it a contagious outbreak or not? Even if we consider only questions that really matter, there are different opinions here on the forum.

All of this is a well-known problem: most information is based on secondary sources (especially any mainstream or alternative media). But there are many contradictory snippets of information and many gaps between them. How do you decide what is trustworthy?

That is an intelligent post silvanelf.

I listen to people who have studies viruses for many years like Jon Rappoport.
David Icke who investigates deeply and quotes the inventor of the main test as being inappropriate for testing viruses.

I will be clear --I believe there is a virus currently causing death.
The statistics for past flu suggest that at least as many have died from flu.
The method of coming to the conclusion that the virus caused the death is flawed -- you can go into hospital with a serious heart condition die, then when the virus shows up in a postmortem test ( if one is indeed done) that goes down on the death certificate and lumped in with cumulative virus deaths.
It is admitted that many dont even know they have the virus-- many test as negative -- many recover completely a small percentage die -- not all from pneumonia, the main fear.

Overall I agree with David Icke who is not saying 5G causes the virus -- just that 5g weakens the immune system.
I agree that the big picture is this is being used to advance the aims of TPTB -- domination -- not 100% sure about a micro chip being implanted but a possibility not ruled out.
For whatever reason lockdown could cause an economic crash like never seen before.
The state will look after you --Oh Yeah!

I accept that lockdown maybe appropriate for people with certain medical histories.

However, as the recovery rate is no worse than flu I would think that lockdown has another reason than to save peoples lives, as I keep repeating the side effects of lockdown of buisnesses large and small will go on for years ( those that survive that is)
So when this is over and you want to fly somewhere for your holidays or go on a cruise ship -- guess what -- not available for whatever reason.

If someone really wants to know how serious this is health wise look at the statistics for the many causes of death in a year and find out how far up the table a Virus is.

Chris
Ps these are not that easy to find
Here is a USA one
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...s-in-mortality

If you well down the page you will find mortality rates.

Small part shows no 1 cause
Age 35 -49 Suicide and injury
50-64 Heart
65 & Upward Heart

The top 6 are on the list -- flu and virus not mentioned.
Basically flu or virus are not major killers --cancer is though.
It would be good if some one could print up a list of the various causes of death per annum and the statistics-- numbers.
Chris

[marielle]

I am reading a very interesting book called "Virus Mania". Here is the forward:

A daily scan through the newspapers and TV news gives the impression that the entire world is constantly invaded by new and horrible virus epidemics. The latest headlines feature the humanpapillomavirus (HPV) alleged to cause cervical cancer and the avian flu virus, HSNl. The public is also continually terrorized by reports about SARS, BSE, Hepatitis C, AIDS, Ebola, and Polio. However, this virus mayhem ignores very basic scientific facts: the existence, the pathogenicity and the deadly effects of these agents have never been proven. The medical establishment and its loyal media acolytes claim that this evidence has been produced. But these claims are highly suspect because modern medicine has pushed direct virus proof methods aside and uses dubious indirect tools to "prove" the existence of viruses such as antibody tests and the polymerase chain reaction (PCR).

The authors of Virus Mania, journalist Torsten Engelbrecht and doctor of internal medicine Claus Kohnlein, show that these alleged contagious viruses are, in fact, particles produced by the cells themselves as a consequence of certain stress factors such as drugs. These particles are then identified by antibody and PCR tests and interpreted as epidemic-causing viruses by doctors who have been inoculated for over 100 years by the theory that microbes are deadly and only modern medications and vaccines will protect us from virus pandemics.

The central aim of this book is to steer the discussion back to a real scientific debate and put medicine back on the path of an impartial analysis of the facts. It will put medical experiments, clinical trials,statistics and government policies under the microscope, revealing that the people charged with protecting our health and safety have deviated from this path. Along the way, Engelbrecht and Kohnlein will analyze all possible causes of illness such as pharmaceuticals, lifestyle drugs, pesticides, heavy metals, pollution,stress and processed (and sometimes genetically modified) foods. All of these can heavily damage the body of humans and animals and even kill them. And precisely these factors typically prevail where the victims of alleged viruses live and work. To substantiate these claims, the authors cite dozens of highly renowned scientists, among them the Nobel laureates Kary Mullis, Barbara McClintock, Walter Gilbert,Sir Frank Macfarlane Burnet and microbiologist and Pulitzer Prize winner Rene Dubos. The book presents approximately 1,100 pertinent scientific references, the majority of which have been published recently.

The topic of this book is of pivotal significance. The pharmaceutical companies and top scientists rake in enormous sums of money by attacking germs and the media boosts its audience ratings and circulations with sensationalized reporting (the coverage of the New York Times and Der Spiegel are specifically analyzed). Individuals pay the highest price of all, without getting what they deserve and need most to maintain health: enlightenment about the real causes and true necessities for prevention and cure of their illnesses. "The first step is to give up the illusion that the primary purpose of modern medical research is to improve people's health most effectively and efficiently," advises John Abramson of Harvard Medical School. "The primary purpose of commercially-funded clinical research is to maximize financial return on investment, not health."

I have a paper copy but I found a PDF online here--I have no idea how long this link will be valid, though:

edit--I need to fix this link
edit try this: http://whale.to/c/Virus-Mania55tt66.pdf

[silvanelf]

Posted by Reinhard (here)
Now, THIS is a very important answer to my initial question
....a MUST SEE contribution on the validity on the PSR test AND on the exosomes, e.g: COVID 19 being the REACTION (on toxins etc), not the CAUSE.....very interesting !!!

(at least) one Question remains: "Could the 'jumping' of the 'virus' just be a reaction on common/regional stress factors?"

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8D...ature=youtu.be

Reinhard

Take a look at the channel ... the author "Secrets of Saturn" aka Jason Lindgren is working closely together with the well-known Flat Earther "Crrow777" ... just saying.

Jason Lindgren is a musician, talk show host, and film maker. Beginning with the Podcast “Secrets of Saturn”, Jason began working with Crrow777 in 2016. Since then, Jason and Crow have done hundreds of hours of radio together, and have gone on to produce the documentary film “Shoot the Moon”, the story of Crrow777’s telescope work.

https://flatearthconference.com/spea...ason-lindgren/


edit -- see my remark at post #38:

Posted by silvanelf (here)
My bad ... my remark about 'Secrets of Saturn' is irrelevant.

[Luke Holiday]

[QUOTE=Reinhard;1350236]Now, THIS is a very important answer to my initial question
....a MUST SEE contribution on the validity on the PSR test AND on the exosomes, e.g: COVID 19 being the REACTION (on toxins etc), not the CAUSE.....very interesting !!!

(at least) one Question remains: "Could the 'jumping' of the 'virus' just be a reaction on common/regional stress factors?"

here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8D...ature=youtu.be

Reinhard




[QUOTE=Reinhard;1340571]Agape: thank you for that clear input........helps even an non-expert like myself to understand what we are dealing with!

Reinhard

Hello Reinhard,

I would like to chime in here as I have some experience being forced to contemplate and come to some sort of resolution regarding the terrain vs Germ theory of disease – which is essentially the argument presented here– only repackaged in the form of exosome/Cov I9.

I have looked extensively at the science of both and am convinced that this debate is not an either/or situation: rather it is a both/and.

In others words, the harbingers of physical dis-ease, known as virus, bacteria and fungi can be produced inside the body and can enter from outside the body in the form of a contagion.

In the form of contagion from outside the body causing dz: tools like Koch’s postulates have proven this to be true with many pathogens. In the case of disease harbingers created inside the body, we have the work of Beauchamp, Enderlein, Rife, science of Dark field Microscopy and more recently Dr. Kaufman, Dr Cuwan who have brought to light the "exosome" finding through electron microcroscopy.

All have proven that the entities labeled as pathogen can be created inside the body when the terrain or internal millieu dictates the need. The reason the body creates the organisms’s is to remove dross, waste, debris or other pathogen. Common examples of this seen routinely:

Step throat, Streptococci bacteria are in the throat all the time, it is merely a matter of degree which causes symptoms. The same with C. difficile overgrowth in the large intestine leading to severe/chronic diarrhea.

Therefore: The main key which determines illness on the physical level is the inner terrain or milieu. If you have an excess of inner toxicity, resonant mental/emotional patterning, and coordinate level of constitutional energy, you have the breeding grounds to either succumb to outside contagion or develop the entities known as Virus, bacteria or fungi from inside the body in order to remove dross, and the third possibility is you could be subject to both simultaneously.

The profession of Naturopathy has great results treating patients, not based on diagnostic labels, rather we focus predominately on the mind, body and spiritual terrain to treat a presenting symptom complex. Once the inner milieu has been “cleansed” the body does a tremendous job of healing itself.

Also by cleaning up the inner milieu, the physical causes of the disease are removed (similar to removing weeds from a garden) and the chances of getting sick again are greatly reduced. ( Great example of this is the Gerson therapy and cancer)

If I could sum up all disease in one word it would be: Mind, Body Spirit system toxicity.

In conclusion: How does all this all relate to the testing for CV 19.

1. One possibility is that the CV 19 strain has been isolated outside of the body and happens to look just like the released cellular exosome under electron microscope.

2. CV 19 can enter the body from the outside and If one has the resonant MBSS terrain - illness results.

3. When MBSS’s’ are subjected to a new 5 G electromagnetic frequency - the cellular response is a detox mechanism done in attempt to adjust – resulting in the release of exosomes.

4. How do we reconcile:

b. Science has to develop a valid and reliable test for Covid 19 - otherwise nothing can ever be done to move forward on this issue.

c. If healthy - resist the current test.

5. What is the best thing we can people do to protect ourselves, our families and are loved ones:

a.Improve your MBSS’s to the utmost degree that we are capable of.


Blessing Luke

[Luke Holiday]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

I think that information put out by Jon Rappoport, posted by quite a few, is self explanatory and true.
Thanks to onawah, Luke and others for painstakingly pointing this out.
I would also point to the David Icke video that was banned but available--saved on Avalon.
Not a follower of David but he is making sense and researches properly.

Chris

~~~

Chris, please listen. There are different ways of being in denial.

It doesn't matter if the current global scenario is caused by a new virus or by a magic spell. It changes nothing at all.

One person I know very well indeed told me a few minutes ago about their friend in the Scottish Borders who's just about to die. They're waiting for the news any day, any hour.

This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

Hello Bill

I just wanted to very humbly and respectfully chime in here. It appears that what you saying is:

We are facing a real, serious crises and squabbling over details (causes ) is foolish and we should focus on solutions.

The problem I, and perhaps many others, are having is that we feel powerless in terms of solutions.
Our squabbling over details is our way of expressing our frustration through exposing the truth of how we are being
manipulated by a crisis “they created” in order to live in a world we do not wish to participate in.

We are doing this in hope that we can educate the masses in time – to prevent all of us from having to acquiesce to
living in a terrible world of “their” choosing.

As I see it: Using Platforms like Project Avalon, that provide quality, evidence based, non-ridiculed free thinking are
the only real solution we have at this time to be of service through the assimilation, collection and distribution of information (details).

Thank you for allowing me to participate 😊

I hope we are all able to find something fun to do today…and I hope that soon we can all live in the world we deserve😊

Blessings

Luke

[silvanelf]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

Your statement is a nice example of a strawman attack. As it seems the experts in epidemiology seem to know very well that these numbers are not accurate. Here is an excerpt from an interesting article about this topic:

First, there is confusion about what people mean by “death rate”. This confusion can make countries’ numbers look vastly different, even if their populations are dying at the same rate.

There are, in fact, two kinds of fatality rate. The first is the proportion of people who die who have tested positive for the disease. This is called the “case fatality rate”. The second kind is the proportion of people who die after having the infection overall; as many of these will never be picked up, this figure has to be an estimate. This is the “infection fatality rate”.

In other words, the case fatality rate describes how many people doctors can be sure are killed by the infection, versus how many people the virus kills overall, says Carl Heneghan, an epidemiologist and director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford; he is also a GP in recovery from a suspected Covid-19 infection.

more at link: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...y-rates-differ

[Deneon]

I think the whole coronavirus thing is becoming exactly as polarising (and toxic) as the the whole polarising political environment in the US has been the past few years. We really should be focusing on the things we all agree on, instead of the things we disagree on.

Number one: I’m sure we all agree that we are not living in an ordinary situation, right? Global lockdowns are not a mundane thing that happen every year. Even if you think the virus is fake, the lockdowns are real. Everyone agrees, right? Or are there still people who think the lockdowns are fake as well? I hope not..

Number two: I think all of us do also agree that there is someone, somewhere, somehow is orchestrating at least some of this. Even if this was a natural occurrence, (which I don’t think it is), someone is using it to push their agendas. People in all levels in life are using this to their benefit. From the global elite to the average Joe trying to make an extra buck by hoarding and selling essential supplies.

This whole arguing about details is exactly what does not help the cause. Look at the whole field of ufology in the past decades. Ask anyone if the fighting and constantly disagreeing about details of any one case really helped push disclosure forward. I really don’t believe anyone would say yes to that question. What does it really matter if it’s only a virus, or a virus with a little bit of 5G mixed in, or only 5G with no virus, or maybe the regular flu with fake test kits, or fake nurses, fake deaths, wrong death certificate causes, fake genomes, fake burials. It really doesn’t matter what the exact cause is in the grand scheme of things. Unless you believe there is NO lockdown, or there is NO agenda, I think we are all basically in agreement about the big picture.

The point is I’m trying to make is: we are in a situation we’ve never been in before, and we are never going to get the truth from any official agency or government. And even if ‘they’ release ‘a’ truth, we will not believe it and continue this arguing about whether or not what they disclosed is real. It’s a never ending cycle. So arguing about all of the above details is in my view absolutely pointless. You will never be right. Nobody ever will. Not David Icke, not Chris Martensen, not Alex Jones, not Bill Ryan, not anyone else on this forum knows what is going on. Everyone is speculating based on a few sources. The whole phrase ‘do your own research’ has become laughable, because apparently ‘do your own research’ now means ‘watch YouTube videos and read articles of other people having done research and claim as if you now have researched the subject matter yourself and have now become THE expert’.

Anyone who claims to know everything about this (or any other subject matter for that matter), those are the people to be wary of (David Wilcock anyone?). A little humility can go a long way. Personally I’m always more eager to believe people who do not present their speculations as fact and are a little more careful when sharing their views.

So I would suggest to everyone (but not anyone specifically): before going all defensive or going on the attack if someone doesn’t agree with your views, please try and remember: be humble, we are all trying to figure this out, and nobody (even you) knows for a fact all the details about this covid-19 crisis.

[DSKlausler]

As with many here, I have an opinion on this madness. As I read through many sources, and even speak with people, that opinion evolves. I would say that it is rare that we are allowed, or given, a view of the actual truth - ever. We might get pieces here and there, but it remains a big job to assemble the pieces - and requires serious effort and an open mind, which may necessitate changing ones view. Change is hard for many... try it out: "I was wrong."

Here's where I am:

• Control the people (fear) - Save me government!
• Impoverish the people (taxation/employment/economy) Help me government!
• Poison the people ("food"/"medicine"/... VACCINATION) Cure me government! PLEASE!
• Tag the people (possibly)

There are many subdivisions to this of course.

The government is, and has been, your enemy for a very long time. However, at this point, I'm not sure that most people could live without it.

[Reinhard]

Thanks, silvanelf, for this additional information!
Since the very same video is being published on several forums, I didn't pay enough attention on the 'Secrets of Saturn'. Usually I do some research on the background --- not this time because the content/presenter is identical. My bad. The content is key. I haven't wasted any research-time on the flat earthers --- and don't intent to do that in the future. Maybe the presentation with sphere them up a little

Reinhard

[T Smith]

Posted by Luke Holiday (here)

Hello Bill

I just wanted to very humbly and respectfully chime in here. It appears that what you saying is:

We are facing a real, serious crises and squabbling over details (causes ) is foolish and we should focus on solutions.

The problem I, and perhaps many others, are having is that we feel powerless in terms of solutions.
Our squabbling over details is our way of expressing our frustration through exposing the truth of how we are being
manipulated by a crisis “they created” in order to live in a world we do not wish to participate in.

We are doing this in hope that we can educate the masses in time – to prevent all of us from having to acquiesce to
living in a terrible world of “their” choosing.

As I see it: Using Platforms like Project Avalon, that provide quality, evidence based, non-ridiculed free thinking are
the only real solution we have at this time to be of service through the assimilation, collection and distribution of information (details).

Thank you for allowing me to participate 😊

I hope we are able to find something fun to do today…and I hope that soon we can all live in the world we deserve😊

Blessings

Luke

This.....!

Thank you.

[silvanelf]

Posted by Reinhard (here)
Thanks, silvanelf, for this additional information!
Since the very same video is being published on several forums, I didn't pay enough attention on the 'Secrets of Saturn'. Usually I do some research on the background --- not this time because the content/presenter is identical.

Sorry, I made a mistake by assuming that 'Secrets of Saturn' is the original author. I've found a number of re-uploads of that video and some of them refer to 'Secrets of Saturn' as the original source. But these copyright entries may be misleading.

My bad ... my remark about 'Secrets of Saturn' is irrelevant.

At the beginning of the video you can see the text below -- I'm sure that Andrew Kaufman is the original author and 'Secrets of Saturn' re-published the video.

• Andrew Kaufman, M.D.
• Licensed and Board Certified in Psychiatry and Forensic Psychiatry
• Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, SUNY Upstate Medical University
• Former Medical Instructor of Hematology and Oncology, Medical University of South Carolina
• Psychiatry Residency, Duke University
• Doctor of Medicine, Medical University of South Carolina
• Bachelors of Science in Biology, MIT

source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8Dy5mnYx8 (just at the start of the video)

youtube channel: Andrew Kaufman

[Elainie]

This is the test I got

https://www.vibrant-america.com/covid-19/

[waves]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Anyone who thinks the number of deaths being attributed to the virus are accurate are in denial.
There is no single cause for these deaths, all kinds of causes are being linked under the umbrella of Covid-19
A single cause for all these -- give me a break.

I think that information put out by Jon Rappoport, posted by quite a few, is self explanatory and true.
Thanks to onawah, Luke and others for painstakingly pointing this out.
I would also point to the David Icke video that was banned but available--saved on Avalon.
Not a follower of David but he is making sense and researches properly.

Chris

~~~

Chris, please listen. There are different ways of being in denial.

It doesn't matter if the current global scenario is caused by a new virus or by a magic spell. It changes nothing at all.

One person I know very well indeed told me a few minutes ago about their friend in the Scottish Borders who's just about to die. They're waiting for the news any day, any hour.

This is real. You're arguing about angels on a pin.

There are two things to pay attention to:

1. There's a real situation out there.
2. There's a real agenda behind it.

Very little else matters. A lot of people are posting on the forum about things that really just aren't important at all in the context of the far, far bigger picture.

Yes it does matter if you're helping this agenda by believing and repeating the lies it's using. Why wouldn't it matter? I don't see why you seem to be in denial of that.

I don't see anything Chris is in denial about in his summary that you quoted, nor do I see how your response clarifies anything.

YES 'there is a real situation and agenda out there' but what the hell else are we trying to do here but compare evidence and sort the lies from the truth to be able to make correct decisions for ourselves, our families and our world.

Chris is obviously not in denial there's a 'real situation'.
Chris is obviously not in denial there's a 'real agenda'.

So what is he in denial about to you for just continuing to try to to intelligently sort the truth from lies like 1000's of us ... who even feel it's the most important thing to do for our lives right now!!!? I really, really don't see where any denial is for doing this, does anyone else?

In other words, what 'angels on a pin' do you feel are wrong to talk about?