+ Reply to Thread
Page 35 of 42 FirstFirst 1 25 35 42 LastLast
Results 681 to 700 of 834

Thread: The face mask discussion

  1. Link to Post #681
    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    63
    Posts
    5,782
    Thanks
    33,276
    Thanked 30,664 times in 5,409 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Um, here's the Wikipedia entry for Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's "controversial" at best, a quack to most. Sorry.

    But you should be able to see that from the "research" he cites: Breitbart? Fox News? He's purveying junk. Stuff about zinc preventing death from COVID has no basis. COVID attacks ACE sites. What does zinc have to do with that? It causes cytokine storms, what does zinc have to do with that?

    And I already dealt with the supposed oxygen loss from wearing masks. It just doesn't happen. People who include this with their "science" are not scientists, they're quacks.
    It happens to be Wikipedia that is clearly compromised. That they have issue with Dr. Mercola simply emphasizes his information is quite valid.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Chester For This Post:

    DaveToo (4th November 2020), Franny (4th November 2020), greybeard (4th November 2020), mountain_jim (4th November 2020), Old Student (4th November 2020), onawah (5th November 2020)

  3. Link to Post #682
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Inverness-----Scotland
    Language
    English
    Age
    75
    Posts
    12,996
    Thanks
    30,635
    Thanked 66,511 times in 11,461 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I wonder if those who advocate wearing a mask have personal experience of wearing one.
    If not wear one for a whole week 8 hours a day with breaks for meals and see how they then feel about them.
    They are recruiting people here (NHS) to teach people how to wear masks properly, to be sure they are a tight fit.
    People are not trusted to do something as simple as donning a mask, it seems at great unnecessary expense to the NHS

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to greybeard For This Post:

    Lunesoleil (8th November 2020), Metaphor (4th November 2020), Old Student (4th November 2020)

  5. Link to Post #683
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th September 2018
    Posts
    608
    Thanks
    1,753
    Thanked 2,737 times in 562 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Um, here's the Wikipedia entry for Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's "controversial" at best, a quack to most. Sorry.
    Wikipedia? LOL!

    Check out the Wikipedia entry for 9/11 and then get back to me to
    tell me what you think of it.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DaveToo For This Post:

    greybeard (5th November 2020), onawah (5th November 2020), Patient (4th November 2020)

  7. Link to Post #684
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 1,434 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Wikipedia has its good and bad points. The point on Dr. Mercola is that he is not anywhere near an expert on infectious diseases, on mitigations and public health, or any of that end of the medicine spectrum. Maybe he's very good at giving massages and prescribing vitamins. No evidence of other genius.

    He's also a receptacle for complaints about evidence-based medicine, though, and makes a good deal off of this. That's a problem, when someone becomes a professional lightning rod for peoples complaints about their own care.

    I go back to when I worked as a mechanic: We had a lot of people who were very into their own cars. They would always come in and start a kind of macho showdown over who knew the most about cars. I had a single standard philosophy about it: Yep, you know a ton about your car, probably more than me. The difference is that in this job, I have to be able to work on all cars, not just yours.

    In medicine terms, evidence-based medicine works the most of the time on the most of the people for the most of their ailments. In particular, since that is exactly what you want for control of a pandemic, it is the best source of information about how to do the epidemiology and the public health problem. You should listen to them on that one.

    If you've got this or that ailment they don't seem to do well on, so be it. They don't, for instance, do very well on pain. On some chronic ailments, they lack the detail they have for communicable or infectious diseases. That's because their profession started, and was still up into the twentieth century, about curing sickness caused by disease.

    But they're very very good on diseases caused by microbes. And pandemics are right in their 2000 year old tradition, not at the edges. So do I do alternative medicine for a nervous system disorder like my breathing problem? Sure. It works much better than what the doctors have down at the hospital. But do I think I know more than them about how to stop the spread of disease, and do I do my mandatory 2 year refresher on BSI and PPE. You bet. To do otherwise is to be playing Russian roulette with the microbes, and the microbes usually win at Russian roulette.

  8. Link to Post #685
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 1,434 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote I wonder if those who advocate wearing a mask have personal experience of wearing one.
    Yup, they do. Take Fauci -- the guy worked on the AIDS and Ebola epidemics and on SARS. If you think you have to go through a lot wearing a mask for COVID, Ebola makes those precautions look like a walk in the park.

    Quote They are recruiting people here (NHS) to teach people how to wear masks properly, to be sure they are a tight fit.
    That sounds like respirators, what the U.S. calls N95s. You people are lucky, there are nowhere near enough N95s available in the U.S. for everybody to have one, let alone change them out like they should. They work very will by comparison to surgical masks. And it isn't like nobody else wheres them: N95 stands for Non-petroleum 95% - they filter 95% of particulate matter at 2.5microns, and are for non-petroleum use. That last part is because they have them for petroleum use as well, N95s and P95s are worn in occupations other than medical, and yes, for 8 hour shifts.

  9. Link to Post #686
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    12th September 2016
    Posts
    1,164
    Thanks
    2,588
    Thanked 8,177 times in 1,128 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Ok Old Student, help me with this....

    It covid a disease or a virus?

    Why does the CDC say that they have not isolated the particulate of covid-19?
    The same has been said from the UK department of (medicine? I do not know what they are called.)

    If they do not have have a sample of the virus, how do they make a test to detect it? What is it that they are detecting? If they are detecting basic cold/flu bugs then it seems that the covid numbers are being artificially inflated.

    If they do not have a proper test, how can they make a vaccine?

    When they are putting covid as the cause of death for so many people who did not die from covid (because the hospitals are getting money for covid patients), how are we to trust the medical people? The governments?


    Hospitals all around the world have had huge lay offs of employees - strange during a pandemic. (FYI, I worked at a hospital for almost 10 years.)

    We need sunshine and fresh air - we are humans of this planet. We need the sun and to breather fresh air.

    Why do we all need to wear masks? I also read from very high seated medical scientists that the covid-19 particles can go through a mask like a mosquito going through a chain link fence.

    Again, why are we being forced to wear a mask?

    Who has isolated the virus in a lab? Anyone?

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Patient For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (4th November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), greybeard (5th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (7th November 2020)

  11. Link to Post #687
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    26,604
    Thanks
    116,532
    Thanked 340,116 times in 25,090 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Who has isolated the virus in a lab? Anyone?
    It's been isolated and fully sequenced 86,322 times. (Maybe more by the time anyone's finished reading this post! )
    Below is what one such gene sequence looks like. (Each is very slightly different, because of mutations. That's why the labs keep sequencing it, to see how or if it may be evolving.)

    But the reality of the virus is separate from many other issues connected with how the controls are being implemented and enforced. Two things are in play here:
    1. A real virus, that was created in a lab (not all that deadly when well treated, but potentially more serious then flu)
    2. A NWO initiative to restrict freedoms, travel and communication, and (maybe) enforce vaccinations.
    http://avalonlibrary.net/Coronavirus...e_sequence.pdf


  12. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), greybeard (5th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (7th November 2020), kudzy (4th November 2020), Strat (4th November 2020), Yoda (4th November 2020)

  13. Link to Post #688
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th September 2018
    Posts
    608
    Thanks
    1,753
    Thanked 2,737 times in 562 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Quote I wonder if those who advocate wearing a mask have personal experience of wearing one.
    Yup, they do. Take Fauci -- the guy worked on the AIDS and Ebola epidemics and on SARS. If you think you have to go through a lot wearing a mask for COVID, Ebola makes those precautions look like a walk in the park.

    Quote They are recruiting people here (NHS) to teach people how to wear masks properly, to be sure they are a tight fit.
    That sounds like respirators, what the U.S. calls N95s. You people are lucky, there are nowhere near enough N95s available in the U.S. for everybody to have one, let alone change them out like they should. They work very will by comparison to surgical masks. And it isn't like nobody else wheres them: N95 stands for Non-petroleum 95% - they filter 95% of particulate matter at 2.5microns, and are for non-petroleum use. That last part is because they have them for petroleum use as well, N95s and P95s are worn in occupations other than medical, and yes, for 8 hour shifts.
    You sound like a reasonably intelligent person Old Student so let's see if we can have a reasonably intelligent discussion.

    I just returned from the supermarket of a large chain.
    At the check-out counter I placed my items one after the other on the conveyor belt, all the while observing the
    cashier.
    She was standing behind a plastic shield and wearing a standard white face mask and plastic/vinyl gloves that all
    cashiers of the store must wear.

    I counted her touching her mask a total of 10 times during the time I waited to be served until I had paid.

    If she was working for even one hour prior to serving me, she would have touched her mask at the very least 100 times.
    Whatever deadly virus may have been making its way through her mask and onto her gloves could easily have
    been lodged onto any number of the items I purchased.

    My question.
    Do you think I would be safer with:

    A) her wearing her mask and touching it this many times during the checkout process? OR
    B) her not wearing a mask and not touching her face?

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DaveToo For This Post:

    Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), greybeard (5th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (7th November 2020), Patient (5th November 2020)

  15. Link to Post #689
    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    27th November 2013
    Age
    67
    Posts
    1,594
    Thanks
    4,657
    Thanked 14,524 times in 1,538 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    B i think


    b

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to thepainterdoug For This Post:

    DaveToo (5th November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (7th November 2020)

  17. Link to Post #690
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 1,434 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    C) Wear the mask and not touch her face.

    Medical first responders are, for instance, forbidden from wearing makeup on the job to prevent a very common reason for people touching their faces.

    I never touch my face when I have gloves on. Same goes for when I have a mask on. But that's because I have, as I said before, mandatory class I have to attend in BSI every two years.

    The person in the most danger at the supermarket is the person working there. But thanks for thinking about them.

  18. Link to Post #691
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    12th September 2016
    Posts
    1,164
    Thanks
    2,588
    Thanked 8,177 times in 1,128 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Patient (here)
    Who has isolated the virus in a lab? Anyone?
    It's been isolated and fully sequenced 86,322 times. (Maybe more by the time anyone's finished reading this post! )
    Below is what one such gene sequence looks like. (Each is very slightly different, because of mutations. That's why the labs keep sequencing it, to see how or if it may be evolving.)

    But the reality of the virus is separate from many other issues connected with how the controls are being implemented and enforced. Two things are in play here:
    1. A real virus, that was created in a lab (not all that deadly when well treated, but potentially more serious then flu)
    2. A NWO initiative to restrict freedoms, travel and communication, and (maybe) enforce vaccinations.
    http://avalonlibrary.net/Coronavirus...e_sequence.pdf

    If it is different because it has mutated, then it is not the original of course. So it seems the test is to detect a virus. That is how the case numbers are rising - anyone that has a strain of a cold/flu is now labeled as having covid-19.

    Why does (or did, they may have altered it by now) did they have on the CDC web page about them "not having a particulate of the covid-19 virus)" so what did they have? It had mutated, so they can't nail it down.

    Yes, the NWO is the problem. They are using masks as a tool. Using a virus to manipulate our rights and freedoms and destroying our lives. Sure the virus is a bad flue - I think there is a bad flu every year, that mutates along. This is why there is no cure for the common mutating flu/cold - so what is the vaccine for then? Another tool.

    How are we to fight against this? Take apart the tools. Educate people that they are being manipulated.

    Should we comply when we know things are wrong?

    If you close your eyes and comply then you are closing your eyes to the other bigger worse parts. Look at Australia - that is the beginning of what they are going to try to do everywhere.

    How can we sit back and allow this to continue? We should not.

  19. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Patient For This Post:

    DaveToo (5th November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), greybeard (5th November 2020), Karen (Geophyz) (7th November 2020), Old Student (5th November 2020), onawah (5th November 2020)

  20. Link to Post #692
    United States Avalon Member Bluegreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    18th July 2014
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    6,254
    Thanks
    37,041
    Thanked 32,051 times in 5,570 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Notice how it changed from "Corona"

    to

    "Covid"

    ?

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bluegreen For This Post:

    Constance (5th November 2020), DaveToo (5th November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020)

  22. Link to Post #693
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 1,434 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote If it is different because it has mutated, then it is not the original of course. So it seems the test is to detect a virus. That is how the case numbers are rising - anyone that has a strain of a cold/flu is now labeled as having covid-19.
    This is bad logic, and it's conclusion is wrong information. The main test is called a PCR test, standing for polymerase chain reaction test. What they do is take the sample and aggressively reproduce any strands of RNA in the sample until they are big enough to identify. They then test for RNA fragments unique to Covid-19. So no, they are not just testing for "a virus" and no, a cold or flu will not cause a positive test.
    Quote Yes, the NWO is the problem. They are using masks as a tool. Using a virus to manipulate our rights and freedoms and destroying our lives. Sure the virus is a bad flue - I think there is a bad flu every year, that mutates along. This is why there is no cure for the common mutating flu/cold - so what is the vaccine for then? Another tool.
    More bad information. The masks mitigate the spread of the virus. The virus is not a "bad flu". It is not an influenza virus at all, it's a coronavirus. Those pictures you see with spiky balls? Those are pictures of a coronavirus, under a optical microscope the spikes look like a corona like on the sun during an eclipse. The flu does not mutate every year, we get a different wave of it every year from Southeast Asia. The different waves have different strains in them.

    The flu is not a cold, a cold is not the flu. About 15-20% of colds are a (different) coronavirus. We don't develop lasting antibody defenses against the cold, in fact you can re-infect yourself with it. No immunity from having it means no vaccine possibility.

    The last statement about the vaccine has some validity. We don't actually know whether a vaccine will work or for how long, so it is worth wondering if it will work. Those working on them say the efficacy may be low and we may have to keep getting shots until the pandemic is under control. Personally, I'm not holding out great hopes for the vaccine being more than 50% effective, but the scientists say that even with 50% effectiveness, they would be able to end the pandemic.

    Please don't put out stuff that could be dangerous, like theories about what the disease is that aren't true. This virus attacks ACE sites -- angiotensin converting enzyme sites. Those are the things in the walls of your blood vessels that regulate your blood pressure. In the lungs and kidneys they are on capillaries, elsewhere just on blood vessels and lymph vessels. But that means it attacks everything in your body, your solid organs and lungs most, but everything where blood flows. Many of the "asymptomatic" cases, cases in which none of that list of symptoms they ask about at the clinic happen, have extensive damage caused by damage to their cardiovascular system.

    This is a nearly perfect killer. The first SARS disease, which I suppose could be called Sars-CoV-1 now, in 2003 was more deadly and infectious but it was so lethal and infectious that it burned itself out by killing people before it was spread. This one spreads before it shows symptoms. But it is very damaging, unlike many other diseases, it attacks everything.

  23. Link to Post #694
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th September 2018
    Posts
    608
    Thanks
    1,753
    Thanked 2,737 times in 562 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Quote If it is different because it has mutated, then it is not the original of course. So it seems the test is to detect a virus. That is how the case numbers are rising - anyone that has a strain of a cold/flu is now labeled as having covid-19.
    This is bad logic, and it's conclusion is wrong information. The main test is called a PCR test, standing for polymerase chain reaction test. What they do is take the sample and aggressively reproduce any strands of RNA in the sample until they are big enough to identify. They then test for RNA fragments unique to Covid-19. So no, they are not just testing for "a virus" and no, a cold or flu will not cause a positive test.
    Quote Yes, the NWO is the problem. They are using masks as a tool. Using a virus to manipulate our rights and freedoms and destroying our lives. Sure the virus is a bad flue - I think there is a bad flu every year, that mutates along. This is why there is no cure for the common mutating flu/cold - so what is the vaccine for then? Another tool.
    More bad information. The masks mitigate the spread of the virus. The virus is not a "bad flu". It is not an influenza virus at all, it's a coronavirus. Those pictures you see with spiky balls? Those are pictures of a coronavirus, under a optical microscope the spikes look like a corona like on the sun during an eclipse. The flu does not mutate every year, we get a different wave of it every year from Southeast Asia. The different waves have different strains in them.

    The flu is not a cold, a cold is not the flu. About 15-20% of colds are a (different) coronavirus. We don't develop lasting antibody defenses against the cold, in fact you can re-infect yourself with it. No immunity from having it means no vaccine possibility.
    The western Big Pharma companies working on Covid vaccines released information a couple of weeks ago stating that their vaccines would not provide immunity for Covid.
    So much for your statement of : "No immunity from having it means no vaccine possibility."

    You keep talking about logic and misinformation. That is the reason I am pointing this out.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to DaveToo For This Post:

    Patient (5th November 2020)

  25. Link to Post #695
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    12th September 2016
    Posts
    1,164
    Thanks
    2,588
    Thanked 8,177 times in 1,128 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Quote If it is different because it has mutated, then it is not the original of course. So it seems the test is to detect a virus. That is how the case numbers are rising - anyone that has a strain of a cold/flu is now labeled as having covid-19.
    This is bad logic, and it's conclusion is wrong information. The main test is called a PCR test, standing for polymerase chain reaction test. What they do is take the sample and aggressively reproduce any strands of RNA in the sample until they are big enough to identify. They then test for RNA fragments unique to Covid-19. So no, they are not just testing for "a virus" and no, a cold or flu will not cause a positive test.
    Quote Yes, the NWO is the problem. They are using masks as a tool. Using a virus to manipulate our rights and freedoms and destroying our lives. Sure the virus is a bad flue - I think there is a bad flu every year, that mutates along. This is why there is no cure for the common mutating flu/cold - so what is the vaccine for then? Another tool.
    More bad information. The masks mitigate the spread of the virus. The virus is not a "bad flu". It is not an influenza virus at all, it's a coronavirus. Those pictures you see with spiky balls? Those are pictures of a coronavirus, under a optical microscope the spikes look like a corona like on the sun during an eclipse. The flu does not mutate every year, we get a different wave of it every year from Southeast Asia. The different waves have different strains in them.

    The flu is not a cold, a cold is not the flu. About 15-20% of colds are a (different) coronavirus. We don't develop lasting antibody defenses against the cold, in fact you can re-infect yourself with it. No immunity from having it means no vaccine possibility.

    The last statement about the vaccine has some validity. We don't actually know whether a vaccine will work or for how long, so it is worth wondering if it will work. Those working on them say the efficacy may be low and we may have to keep getting shots until the pandemic is under control. Personally, I'm not holding out great hopes for the vaccine being more than 50% effective, but the scientists say that even with 50% effectiveness, they would be able to end the pandemic.

    Please don't put out stuff that could be dangerous, like theories about what the disease is that aren't true. This virus attacks ACE sites -- angiotensin converting enzyme sites. Those are the things in the walls of your blood vessels that regulate your blood pressure. In the lungs and kidneys they are on capillaries, elsewhere just on blood vessels and lymph vessels. But that means it attacks everything in your body, your solid organs and lungs most, but everything where blood flows. Many of the "asymptomatic" cases, cases in which none of that list of symptoms they ask about at the clinic happen, have extensive damage caused by damage to their cardiovascular system.

    This is a nearly perfect killer. The first SARS disease, which I suppose could be called Sars-CoV-1 now, in 2003 was more deadly and infectious but it was so lethal and infectious that it burned itself out by killing people before it was spread. This one spreads before it shows symptoms. But it is very damaging, unlike many other diseases, it attacks everything.
    Old Student, I can appreciate that you have some knowledge about somethings that I do not. I am looking at the big picture. I think I am pretty good at seeing the big picture - I worked for a large multi media company (one of the top 10 recognizable brands in the world) and was responsible for the quality assurance of their products world wide. Why am I no longer there? Apart from other things, I have morals. The mask wearing is being used as a tool as is the covid-19 scare tactics.

    The issue of mask wearing is much bigger than just the virus. It is one part of an agenda to change people's rights and freedoms.

    The goal of the dark side is to dumb down the population so they no longer care enough to fight for their freedom. The pandemic stops people from gathering in public. If all of our communication is done through phones and the internet, then they can easily monitor and control it.

    If this becomes the only way for us to communicate, what will you think happened to me if I stop replying? Did my power go out? What happened? I could be taken away and no one would know. Oh we have video footage - oh wait, I can't identify anyone because they are all wearing masks.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Patient For This Post:

    DaveToo (5th November 2020), Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), onawah (7th November 2020)

  27. Link to Post #696
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th March 2010
    Language
    English
    Posts
    15,078
    Thanks
    35,244
    Thanked 70,083 times in 13,546 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    If you take Wikipedia's word on anything, you are not likely to find a lot of agreement among discerning members here on Avalon, anymore than if you take the word of Snopes or the Facebook or Youtube "fact checkers" who are so busy censoring what contradicts the Globalists' preferred narratives.
    Dr. Mercola is very consistent in posting informed and well-researched articles.
    If he was truly a quack, he would not have enjoyed the success he has for as long as he has, as one of the most read doctors online, nor would he be in danger of being censored now by TPTB, which he is.
    Why you would associate him with massages is a mystery, though his cutting edge line of vitamins is quite good, and his research team does a good job of connecting dots for him that he might miss himself.
    He associates with very credible whistleblowers and supports them by providing excellent interviews and a venue for them to share vital information.
    If you want to see more credible evidence about how ineffective and harmful face masks are, you have only to go back and check out this very thread from the beginning, because other Avalonians have done a great job of finding and posting that here.
    ...As well as much credible evidence demonstrating how the "official" statistics about Covid are untrustworthy and are part of a fascistic Globalist agenda.
    If you disagree with all that, you have probably joined the wrong forum, and I predict that you won't last long here on Avalon.
    As for Fauci, I suggest you read this thread: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...04#post1388204

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Wikipedia has its good and bad points. The point on Dr. Mercola is that he is not anywhere near an expert on infectious diseases, on mitigations and public health, or any of that end of the medicine spectrum. Maybe he's very good at giving massages and prescribing vitamins. No evidence of other genius.

    He's also a receptacle for complaints about evidence-based medicine, though, and makes a good deal off of this. That's a problem, when someone becomes a professional lightning rod for peoples complaints about their own care.

    I go back to when I worked as a mechanic: We had a lot of people who were very into their own cars. They would always come in and start a kind of macho showdown over who knew the most about cars. I had a single standard philosophy about it: Yep, you know a ton about your car, probably more than me. The difference is that in this job, I have to be able to work on all cars, not just yours.

    In medicine terms, evidence-based medicine works the most of the time on the most of the people for the most of their ailments. In particular, since that is exactly what you want for control of a pandemic, it is the best source of information about how to do the epidemiology and the public health problem. You should listen to them on that one.

    If you've got this or that ailment they don't seem to do well on, so be it. They don't, for instance, do very well on pain. On some chronic ailments, they lack the detail they have for communicable or infectious diseases. That's because their profession started, and was still up into the twentieth century, about curing sickness caused by disease.

    But they're very very good on diseases caused by microbes. And pandemics are right in their 2000 year old tradition, not at the edges. So do I do alternative medicine for a nervous system disorder like my breathing problem? Sure. It works much better than what the doctors have down at the hospital. But do I think I know more than them about how to stop the spread of disease, and do I do my mandatory 2 year refresher on BSI and PPE. You bet. To do otherwise is to be playing Russian roulette with the microbes, and the microbes usually win at Russian roulette.
    Last edited by onawah; 7th November 2020 at 08:19.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to onawah For This Post:

    Blacklight43 (7th November 2020), greybeard (7th November 2020)

  29. Link to Post #697
    France Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th February 2019
    Location
    South of France
    Language
    French
    Age
    67
    Posts
    302
    Thanks
    2,255
    Thanked 1,837 times in 291 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Edited from here;
    Sorry, I was going to talk about the less than 1 micron aerosols and the public health around them. The public health for these is to isolate ventilation systems, and to quarantine people who are positive for the disease. What public health people worry about for aerosol spread is air conditioning (HVAC). The classic example of that is Legionnaire's Disease. The Army Corps of Engineers set up facilities here in the U.S. after the first spike in New York tri-state area. They did this mitigation, installing separate air conditioning in hotel rooms used for COVID patients, etc. If you go back to the SARS epidemic 2003, you can see some of those recommendations in WHO and CDC documents -- e.g. only transporting people in ambulances which have segregated compartments to minimize infections among ambulance crews, etc.
    Quarantine requires an ability to test and contact trace. You might be able to do that in France, here in the U.S. right now, levels are so high that contact tracing is impossible, so we only have quarantine as a method around that.
    I go back to your described personal experience about N-95 facemasks in the operation room. You underlined being very religious about that. You said : if we did not we would get very sick (no evidence given).
    Indeed my sources in France call it a dogma and tradition more than factual. Listen to this brief testimony about masks in the operation room by Dr Steven R. Gundry.
    I notice again in my research that they only use surgical face masks in operation rooms.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/26pPYCKEb1Tf/

    Now about the usefulness and the size of virus particles. Hereunder 2 scientific articles. The first one about the advantage of N95 respirators. And the second is an admission that the virus particles are tiny while at the same time saying that they are only carried by larger particles like droplets. You see how confusing and inconclusive all that is.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26952529/

    Interpretation:†Although N95 respirators appeared to have a protective advantage over surgical masks in laboratory settings, our meta-analysis showed that there were insufficient data to determine definitively whether N95 respirators are superior to surgical masks in protecting health care workers against transmissible acute respiratory infections in clinical settings.† © 2016 Canadian Medical Association or its licensors.

    https://www.tampabay.com/news/health...e-is-nonsense/

    The COVID-19 particle is indeed around 0.1 microns in size, but it is always bonded to something larger.

    Back to your safe environment in the operation room. Very alarming information is on my desk that will confirm the ridicule saying masks are protecting us in the hospital. The hospitals are fully equipped and saturated by dangerous wireless radio frequencies. Those will move through any masks you will admit, donít you ? Radio wave sickness is well researched and has similar symptoms as what they call covid . Hereby an extract from a report :
    Patients need to be kept away from all radiation in hospitals
    Nurses and doctors in hospitals have no idea that all the wireless devices that are being used by
    their wireless modern equipment, are also part of the online network.
    They are also emitting microwaves in the room of the patients, and are making the patients more
    sick and the person can die of this overdose.
    Thatís why so many people are dying all over the world, especially in modern and fully equipped
    modern hospitals, where this 5G technology is being installed first
    .



    I will not go in your recommendations for quarantine now. They are destructive and dreadful. You want us all living like crazy billionaire Howard Hugues ?
    What is happening in France now with the enforced masks in the schools starting from 6 year old is very bad. I see the testimonies of mothers and fathers.
    All that because of persons who dramatize the danger of viruses and germs. Can they even conceive what could be the real cause in the universe as laid down in the very distant past ?
    Consider carefully because you will be remembered as a gatekeeper for this scientific barbarism.
    Last edited by Philippe; 7th November 2020 at 07:41.

  30. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Philippe For This Post:

    Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020), greybeard (7th November 2020), Gwin Ru (7th November 2020), onawah (7th November 2020), Patient (7th November 2020)

  31. Link to Post #698
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th May 2020
    Language
    English
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 1,434 times in 639 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote I go back to your described personal experience about N-95 facemasks in the operation room. You underlined being very religious about that. You said : if we did not we would get very sick (no evidence given).
    This is not in the "operation room" it is on the street. At public events, and also sometimes at emergency shelters. Been there, done that. Sorry to disappoint.

    Quote The hospitals are fully equipped and saturated by dangerous wireless radio frequencies. Those will move through any masks you will admit, donít you ? Radio wave sickness is well researched and has similar symptoms as what they call covid . Hereby an extract from a report :
    Patients need to be kept away from all radiation in hospitals
    Nurses and doctors in hospitals have no idea that all the wireless devices that are being used by
    their wireless modern equipment, are also part of the online network.
    They are also emitting microwaves in the room of the patients, and are making the patients more
    sick and the person can die of this overdose.
    Thatís why so many people are dying all over the world, especially in modern and fully equipped
    modern hospitals, where this 5G technology is being installed first.
    A "report"? Your picture is getting clearer. This information is pure conspiracy theory and paranoia. The only implemented 5G is using 2.5GHz carriers, those have been around for years, it would be completely paradoxical if they suddenly started killing people in hospitals because they had been given a new name.

    The masks work. They don't work perfectly. The vaccines for flu work, they don't work perfectly. The purpose isn't to perfect non-transmission in individual cases but to decrease it overall, so that the rate of transmission goes below 1-1 (one infected person infects on average one other person). Pandemics die out if that rate is achieved, the public health of this is to get there. Contact tracing, masks, social distancing, and washing hands can get us there if everyone works really hard, add in a vaccine and it gets a little easier.

    You're whining about restrictions that would have made the people in West Africa during Ebola jump for joy because they were so light. Others, less fortunate than yourself, have worked their way through worse public health ordinances and survived just fine. One day, if that transmission rate is brought down far enough, the pandemic dies out. But sure as shootin' you aren't going to get there by conspiracy theories about the dangers of 5G.

  32. Link to Post #699
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    63
    Posts
    4,614
    Thanks
    19,602
    Thanked 27,560 times in 4,348 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Just want to clarify. The frequencies you talk of is not the only problem. It is modulation that is the concern. Modulating the wavelength and shape causes massive electrical and magnetic fields to arise. These fields are completely disregarded in North America, except as to how it interferes with the power factor and correction and mitigation techniques to overcome it. But that is power distribution, not air wave signals in the frequency bands. In those scenarios, electrical and magnetic fields are not taken into account in any way as it would lead to uncovering the major problems and detrimental health effects of our power systems in general.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless ó like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Deborah (ahamkara) (7th November 2020)

  34. Link to Post #700
    United States Moderator Chris Gilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    31st July 2012
    Age
    39
    Posts
    508
    Thanks
    3,338
    Thanked 3,218 times in 494 posts

    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    In medicine terms, evidence-based medicine works the most of the time on the most of the people for the most of their ailments. In particular, since that is exactly what you want for control of a pandemic, it is the best source of information about how to do the epidemiology and the public health problem. You should listen to them on that one.

    If you've got this or that ailment they don't seem to do well on, so be it. They don't, for instance, do very well on pain. On some chronic ailments, they lack the detail they have for communicable or infectious diseases. That's because their profession started, and was still up into the twentieth century, about curing sickness caused by disease.

    But they're very very good on diseases caused by microbes. And pandemics are right in their 2000 year old tradition, not at the edges. So do I do alternative medicine for a nervous system disorder like my breathing problem? Sure. It works much better than what the doctors have down at the hospital. But do I think I know more than them about how to stop the spread of disease, and do I do my mandatory 2 year refresher on BSI and PPE. You bet. To do otherwise is to be playing Russian roulette with the microbes, and the microbes usually win at Russian roulette.
    Good balance in your posts. My clinical qigong teacher has often cautioned my colleagues and I on jumping to either/or positions on the alternative and orthodox medicine divide.

    There's some things doctors may not be so good at, like individual constitutional issues that differ from the majority. For approaches that do work on a wide meta level however, it's foolish to dismiss all of it. Considering that I've had to wear masks for 16 hours straight with a face shield and disposable PPE gowns, I find peoples reactions to wearing a mask for 20 minutes in a store to be rather silly.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 35 of 42 FirstFirst 1 25 35 42 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts