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Thread: The face mask discussion

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    8 out of 10 have mild cases (CDC), 10-15% have severe (WHO). Identifying a serious case as one where you can't walk across the room and need some hospitalization, which is the opposite of the definition of 'mild' you get 20% have serious cases, of which between 50% and 75% of those serious cases are severe.

    The 8 out of 10 is available, everywhere, e.g. WebMD. The 10-15% severe cases is on Slide 8 here from WHO.

    Actually, I was doing well throughout.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Im seeing a real push in media and TV especially, to normalize masks as a permanent part of life from here on in. Its insanity.

    People being portrayed in normal settings, alone walking or working , no one near them happily talking away with a mask as if this is now normal life.

    It's coming. The ground is given up first through fear, then the belief it wont last , and then the normal acclimatization of it all . And thats how it all goes. All freedoms.
    In the first months of covid19, the medical adviser to the HK government + virologist Dr Yuen said on TV that this pandemic is going to stay in the world for a long long time. I wondered why he said that. Who could know how serious it was and who could predict such a thing? At that time, mandatory mask-wearing had not begun. These people give away too much in their talks. I am surprised people cannot see the conspiracy behind. Maybe it is just too big to disbelieve.
    Last edited by syrwong; 2nd November 2020 at 10:29.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Im seeing a real push in media and TV especially, to normalize masks as a permanent part of life from here on in. Its insanity.

    People being portrayed in normal settings, alone walking or working , no one near them happily talking away with a mask as if this is now normal life.

    It's coming. The ground is given up first through fear, then the belief it wont last , and then the normal acclimatization of it all . And thats how it all goes. All freedoms.
    Yes, I'm seeing it too and some the messages are:

    Get ready for the new normal, the great reset, the new world order, the 4th industrial revolution.

    Wear a mask, avoid friends and isolate yourself, test, test, test and take vaccines. Then and only then will you be safe. How many will recognize the propaganda?


    Normal people wear a mask and do it correctly. Non-normal people don't care about others, are out of touch or think they're better than everyone else.

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    A million galaxies are a little foam on that shoreless sea. ~ Rumi

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Quote END NOTE: The CDC and WHO have acknowledged that asymptomatic people do not spread the virus, so the case for masks for such people is moot in the first place."
    This statement is both wrong and dangerous. Both CDC and WHO acknowledge asymptomatic transmission, and more than that, people are the most infectious (most able to transmit the disease) 1-2 days before the first symptoms.

    It's one thing to debate whether wearing a mask will prevent you from getting sick (answer: Only a fitted N-95 or similar mask. These masks are called respirators). It's another to pretend that there is no science saying that wearing a mask will help you to not transmit, should you be infected. That's not only true, it's settled science.

    But to say that CDC and WHO are saying that asymptomatic people don't spread the virus is dead wrong and dangerous. People generally spread the virus the most before they know they're sick. And wearing a mask prevents you from spreading the virus but not you from getting sick.

    The mask thing is as follows: A respirator is any mask through which all of the air passes or any device through which all of the air passes before you breathe it. A mask is anything that covers all or part of your face. Only a respirator will keep you from getting sick, and it has to be fitted. A surgical mask or cloth mask does not have this as its purpose. It's purpose is to keep you from spewing if you cough or sneeze. Those spews reach 6 feet away from you. That is why there is a distance recommendation of 6 feet.

    We have known these things about masks and respirators for a long time, and they have been part of public health and protocols for first responders for diseases like TB and meningitis for at least a decade and a half. We have to learn these things about BSE and in particular PPE in health care classes and pass exams on them to get certified.

    Don't spread information that can cause someone else to get this virus. Everybody has a 20% chance of having a serious case. People with underlying conditions have 3x risk factors for obesity, 3x for diabetes, 2x for hypertension, etc. Someone you know and or love can easily be the one who codes.
    Hello Old Student. Since some days here in France school going kids from 6 years on are forced to wear a mask. That is 8h per day and with months of lockdown announced. I am very upset because I have all the data of bacterial, neurological and psychological damage that is going to happen to them. I have seen the demonstrations showing how a mask will not stop a 0,06 till 0,16 micron sized virus to pass through it . That would also mean a mask will not stop schoolchildren from passing on a flu to each other. But I listen to your arguments.
    If one is opposed to masks for kids you are heavily criticized that the kids will kill the elderly. Terrible that is even if I have a divergent opinion about the health state of these elders at risk.

    You write also; [I]Only a respirator will keep you from getting sick, and it has to be fitted[/I]
    Could you please expand this argument and advise what must be done for kids not to pass on the flu or this socalled covid when visiting their grandparents? I also think of a definition or a brand of mask you are familiar with. Would it be sufficient for only the elder to wear a mask? We must restore the smiles to the faces of the children and reduce all terror. Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by Philippe; 2nd November 2020 at 14:28.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    8 out of 10 have mild cases (CDC), 10-15% have severe (WHO). Identifying a serious case as one where you can't walk across the room and need some hospitalization, which is the opposite of the definition of 'mild' you get 20% have serious cases, of which between 50% and 75% of those serious cases are severe.

    The 8 out of 10 is available, everywhere, e.g. WebMD. The 10-15% severe cases is on Slide 8 here from WHO.

    Actually, I was doing well throughout.

    Let's examine the 11,940,632 active cases today. (Nov 2, 2020):

    11,854,880 (99%) are mild condition cases.
    85,752 (1%) are serious/critical condition cases.


    I think you would agree that there is a big difference between 20% and 1%?
    A 20-fold difference!


    And these are just the symptomatic cases!
    When you factor in the 40% of cases that are asymptomatic, the number of serious/critical condition cases falls way below 1%.
    Last edited by DaveToo; 2nd November 2020 at 16:40. Reason: Asymptomatic cases

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote I am very upset because I have all the data of bacterial, neurological and psychological damage that is going to happen to them. I have seen the demonstrations showing how a mask will not stop a 0,06 till 0,16 micron sized virus to pass through it . That would also mean a mask will not stop schoolchildren from passing on a flu to each other. But I listen to your arguments.
    I am not sure what "bacterial, neurological, and psychological damage" you are supposing to happen from wearing a mask. We don't have that data, apparently here, we do know that children below 2 are usually not very capable of wearing a mask, this also happens when administering supplemental oxygen and so in the U.S. at least, mask mandates do not require masks for that age group. But that is because it is impracticable not because it wouldn't help curtail the virus if it were.

    In re 0.6-0.16 microns, there is this study in Lancet which talks about aerosol spread. It's conclusions are that non-mechanically filtered respirators filter 23% at 1 micron. It also discusses that 95% of spread (they were dealing with a hospital setting) was above 4 microns, and that between 2 and 4 microns, there were more Sars-Cov-2 virus strands detected by PCR than viable. They said only PAPR (powered air purifying respirators) were totally effective.

    It's important to know how that translates to public health measures. You asked about my statement about respirators,

    Quote Could you please expand this argument and advise what must be done for kids not to pass on the flu or this socalled covid when visiting their grandparents? I also think of a definition or a brand of mask you are familiar with. Would it be sufficient for only the elder to wear a mask? We must restore the smiles to the faces of the children and reduce all terror. Thank you in advance.
    A respirator is as I defined them before, a device that filters the air before it gets to the person breathing through it.

    We have a tendency to call everything a mask, but an N-95 mask (called different things in different countries) is a respirator, a surgical mask is not. An N-95 has layers of special materials to filter the air and will keep particulates above 2 microns out with 95% probability. It is a fitted device -- for instance, it cannot function as a respirator on a man with a beard, and fitting consists of using the right size and putting it on and checking its seal (around the edges). Once done, this will filter out particles.

    Other masks, cloth masks, surgical masks are really there to be shields. They prevent droplets coming from an infected person from disseminating by blocking them when they are mostly big and by changing their direction. The do not prevent a person wearing one from inhaling air that has not been filtered by them, they do not fit to the face. Their point in the current pandemic is to keep a possibly infected person from polluting the air around them with virus when they sneeze or cough or to some extent shout.

    They are very effective for that, we have natural experiment data here in the U.S., because we're doing such a haphazard job on public health, coming out of states where the mask mandates were town by town since the most recent uptick started around U.S. Labor Day (1st weekend in September). The mandate towns have flat curves the non-mandate towns have sharp upward curves trending towards exponential.

    Wearing one won't keep you from getting the virus, it keeps others from being infected should you be positive and not symptomatic yet.

    Wearing respirators is something that is in most public health mandates in the world right now reserved for medical -- first responders, hospital workers. In the U.S., full PPE (cap, gown, mask, shield, gloves, booties) is reserved for those doing "aerosolizing procedures". That means principally those doing intubations.

    As for "all the terror", this is a pandemic. Pandemics are or should be terrifying. That's how people gradually fall in line to stop them, in the absence of vaccines and definitive treatments. That's simple survival of the species, not some kind of plot, conspiracy, or other control thing. People should be terrified of a disease which might kill substantial numbers of people and could kill anybody. That's a survival mechanism and isn't actually wrong. The world has not been through one in a long time (in the developed world), it is very interesting that people here in the U.S. who immigrated from countries where that isn't the case have little trouble taking mitigation in stride. The mitigations in West Africa for Ebola were far more stringent. People who survived those have no problems with these mask mandates. Or the distancing. They've seen it work before.

    My mother is having no problem with this, e.g., even though she is basically on total lockdown. She grew up when there were killer diseases and at one point caught one. Her mother was a "long hauler" (= permanent damage) from the 1918 flu pandemic. One of the people in my household comes from the third world. He finds the people who are complaining about masks to be babies who should grow up. I'm not that strict, but as a sidelined health care worker in this, I do find it strange that people are so upset about having to protect themselves and the people around them.

    Edited from here;

    Sorry, I was going to talk about the less than 1 micron aerosols and the public health around them. The public health for these is to isolate ventilation systems, and to quarantine people who are positive for the disease. What public health people worry about for aerosol spread is air conditioning (HVAC). The classic example of that is Legionnaire's Disease. The Army Corps of Engineers set up facilities here in the U.S. after the first spike in New York tri-state area. They did this mitigation, installing separate air conditioning in hotel rooms used for COVID patients, etc. If you go back to the SARS epidemic 2003, you can see some of those recommendations in WHO and CDC documents -- e.g. only transporting people in ambulances which have segregated compartments to minimize infections among ambulance crews, etc.

    Quarantine requires an ability to test and contact trace. You might be able to do that in France, here in the U.S. right now, levels are so high that contact tracing is impossible, so we only have quarantine as a method around that.
    Last edited by Old Student; 2nd November 2020 at 17:02.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Thank you for your answer that helps readers to understand what motivates authorities to enforce this measure of mask wearing.

    I will need to find time to search and counter check the source of information that there exist aerosol particles of 0.06 – 0.16 micron. At very first cross reading I do not see a mention in the Lancet report that they exist. That means that I have to accept that a respiratory mask may protect grandparents when receiving a visit from their grandchildren. (Even if I know theories that explain why the aged risk cases are so vulnerable)

    On the other hand I am very annoyed that you do not have any access to reports of of bacterial, neurological and psychological damage that can happen to children from wearing masks. What kind of censorship is that ? I have pictures of a German laboratory test showing 82 bacteria colonies and 4 mold colonies on a mask worn by a child at school for 8 hours. I have a video lecture of a German neurologist who explains the extreme importance of oxygen for the brain cells of growing up youngsters. She warns for permanent damage and reduced cognitive abilities. As for psychological damage anybody can realize how bad it is for a child not showing its face and emotions, to mention only that. Dreadful.

    Neither can I verify what you report from the USA:
    The mandate towns have flat curves the non-mandate towns have sharp upward curves trending towards exponential. Do we have to understand infections registered with the very controversial PCR test ?

    But what is also shocking is how you embrace the need of terror to make the population accept the rules. I can only agree that the general public can be very dumb but they can be very smart also. They are not cattle. Years ago I was activist against the terror from authoritarian mental health organizations that used electro choc treatment to cure widespread mental insanity. And they have been proven wrong It is visible now that we have health organizations using similar methods. How much is wrong with their science?
    Last edited by Philippe; 2nd November 2020 at 18:38.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Okay, first off, I don't know what the German document you are referring to is, it is most likely not censored here. But I would look just a bit askance, since we have had people run marathons in N-95s here to prove they do not restrict oxygen, and I have worn masks and N-95s before and can attest they do no such thing. As for bacteria buildups, on anything I would assume that's true, but so would be build ups on anything else they are wearing. So again, I'm not very inclined to believe the German document is a final word.

    The report from the USA does not depend explicitly or implicitly on test methods, and the PCR test is more accurate than the rapid testing antigen tests. A natural experiment is an experiment that was not set up on purpose, but data that just occurs in the format of an experiment -- two groups that because of some event or circumstance, are comparable and one used the method to be tested and one did not -- the same as having a test and control group. This happened in several places in the Great Plains states because they have governors who were opposed to mask mandates, and the mandates ended up being imposed at the municipal level. Neighboring municipalities with or without mandates performed differently. There is no possibility of quarreling with such natural experiments, the data is what the data is.

    Quote But what is also shocking is how you embrace the need of terror to make the population accept the rules.
    You misunderstand. What I was stating is that previous pandemics, especially those before the modern era of vaccinations and germ-based theory and its derived public health, naturally gave way at some point to distancing -- often very very cruelly -- and segregation of the populations that stopped the spread. One example is the Black Plague, but there are many others in the Americas from the "virgin population" pandemics during colonization.

    Eventually, as a defense mechanism, members of the human species move to isolate and distance themselves from infected people perceived as contagious. At some point that distancing does actually decrease the spread and the pandemic ends.

    It isn't the preferred method in modern civilization, it's cruel, and many of the shunning and distancing behaviors are cruel, and not always appropriate -- cf. religious scourges, inquisitions, witch burnings, leper colonies, etc.

    But it does happen. Distancing and quarantine do work. Masks are a form of distancing in a way, they keep the droplets of a cough from landing on you. Washing your hands keeps it off your hands with which you touch your face and rub your eyes. For those of us drilled in PPE use, we mostly never touch our faces if we are wearing PPE, because it becomes instinctual. We always wash hands after removing gloves. We treat any liquids from a patient's body as the equivalent of infected blood.

    So you just aren't going to convince people who have done even the lowest level of health care that this is all some kind of plot or hoax. It isn't. It needs to be treated the way we treat something like TB or meningitis. But then, most of us don't believe that needing to wear PPE because of a public health directive is nefarious or an infringement of some kind, it's what you do if you don't want people to get sick.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I would recommend anyone to listen to Judy Mikovits explaining a lot about what it is we are actually facing and why masks exacerbate some conditions:
    COVID Cover Up w/ Dr. Judy Mikovits: The BioSecurity State Illusion That Led To Your "New Normal"

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Mask issue (for me) solved...

    I am fortunate that I happen to have a medical condition that precludes my ability to where a mask... and because I am in the great state of Texas, if someone asks me anything about this, I can just tell them to call the number on the exemption - my Doctor, The awesome Dr. Lozano (who, by the way, has me on a great weight loss program where I once was 222 and today hit 188 (with 25 or so more to go) was such a great relief to discover. I fired my old doctor on the spot (she refused to share with me what treatment options she was open to if I somehow caught "the virus").

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by Chester; 3rd November 2020 at 02:51.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Is It Time for Full-Time Mask Mandates?
    by Dr. Joseph Mercola
    November 02, 2020
    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...rid=1001867186

    STORY AT-A-GLANCE

    Despite claims of having a pandemic plan in place, and despite having conducted a global coronavirus pandemic response exercise a mere 10 weeks before the COVID-19 outbreak, planners appear to have overlooked the most important part of pandemic planning, namely researching and identifying the most effective response measures
    Universal mask wearing, like the lockdowns, has no basis in science. On the contrary, the available scientific evidence near-conclusively shows that mask wearing does not reduce infection rates
    Recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data reveal 85% of COVID-19 patients had “always” or “often” worn a cloth mask or face covering in the 14 days preceding their illness
    Despite lack of scientific support for universal mask wearing, Dr. Anthony Fauci now supports a federal mask mandate, saying “the data on masks speaks for itself”
    The World Health Organization encourages universal cloth mask use, not because they’ve been proven to work best but rather because they encourage “cultural expression” and “offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities”

    "When you look at the timeline1,2 of statements about the pandemic made by government officials, public health spokespersons and media pundits who unquestioningly echo the talking points du jour, it’s a panoply of mixed messages to say the least.

    This, despite former White House Coronavirus Task Force lead Dr. Anthony Fauci’s February 25, 2020, assurance that the U.S. was “reasonably well prepared” as it has had a pandemic plan in place “for years.”3

    As noted in a Fox News article4 published in mid-April 2020, many of the statements have not aged well and, now, months later, the situation has hardly gotten any better.

    Pandemic Planning Clearly Lacking in Key Areas

    Despite claims of having a pandemic plan in place, and despite having conducted a global coronavirus pandemic response exercise a mere 10 weeks before the actual outbreak, the planners appear to have overlooked the most important part of pandemic planning, namely researching and identifying the most effective response measures.

    Instead, the October 2019 “Event 201”5 pandemic preparedness exercise largely focused around how to censor “misinformation” about the pandemic and how to ensure compliance with whatever measures were dictated.

    Aside from the wholly unscientific strategy of isolating healthy, productive individuals for months on end and closing the doors to small businesses while allowing shopping to continue in large box stores like Walmart, one of the most controversial pandemic response measures has been the mandating of mask wearing.

    This measure, like the lockdowns, actually has no basis in science. On the contrary, the available scientific evidence near-conclusively shows that mask wearing does not prevent the spread of infectious disease.

    Most studies have focused on influenza, and the results from such studies are more than sufficient since coronaviruses are about half the size of flu viruses. Hence, if a mask cannot prevent the spread of influenza, it’s illogical to assume they can prevent the spread of a much smaller virus, especially if it’s airborne.

    Recent Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data6,7,8 seem to confirm this, as 71% of COVID-19 patients reported “always” wearing a cloth mask or face covering in the 14 days preceding their illness; 14% reported having worn a mask “often.”

    Despite the dearth of scientific support — and despite the dramatic decline in deaths and improved treatments — many areas are now starting to insist on more stringent measures than were implemented during the height of the pandemic. Rather than moving forward, we seem to be moving backward. The obvious question is why?

    Fauci’s Mixed Messages
    Fauci has been a prominent public leader for the coronavirus response in the U.S., but his flip-flopping on issues have done little to guide the nation toward a resolution of the pandemic. This is particularly true when it comes to mask wearing.


    In a 60 Minute COVID-19 segment aired March 8, 2020,9 Fauci said masks are “important for someone who is infected to prevent them from infecting someone else,” but that “right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks; there’s no reason to walk around with a mask.”

    He also noted that “when you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask may make you feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is.” He also pointed out there are unintended consequences of mask wearing that can increase your infection risk, things like touching your mask and then touching your face.

    Overall, his message in March was that masks should be reserved for health care professionals. A couple weeks later, in early April 2020, he suddenly did a radical about-face and changed his messaging, urging people to wear cloth masks in public unless they could maintain a 6-foot distance from others.10

    Mid-June 2020, when pressed about his turnabout on masks, he stated11 he’d initially downplayed the benefits of face masks due to concerns about personal protective equipment (PPE) shortages. The clear subtext was “I lied to you because I thought it was for the greater good.” If he is willing to lie about this, how can he possibly be trusted about other recommendations?

    In March, he accurately confirmed that masks are ineffective and offer a false sense of security. Then, when he did recommend mask wearing, he recommended wearing the least effective mask alternative — cloth masks, for which there are no standards at all.

    At the end of July 2020 — just days after getting caught at a baseball game with his mask pulled below his chin12 — Fauci started recommending the addition of face shields to protect the mucous membranes of your eyes.13 Then, October 23, 2020, he suddenly announced his support for a federal mask mandate to ensure nationwide compliance.14

    Why? Not only has the science not changed — it still shows masks do not decrease infection rates — but a federal mandate also fails to take into account the level of threat in individual states or cities. What’s more, in a September 15, 2020, press conference, he stated that “a national mandate probably would not work.”15

    Some areas have and are doing quite well in terms of infection rates, hospitalizations and deaths. Why should people in those areas be forced to wear masks even in the absence of a significant threat? (And that’s supposing masks worked in the first place.) As reported by CNN October 23, 2020:16

    “’If people are not wearing masks, then maybe we should be mandating it,’ the leading infectious disease expert told CNN’s Erin Burnett Friday … Mask mandates may be tricky to enforce, but it might be time to call for them, Fauci said.

    ‘There's going to be a difficulty enforcing it, but if everyone agrees that this is something that's important and they mandate it and everybody pulls together and says, you know, we're going to mandate it but let's just do it, I think that would be a great idea to have everybody do it uniformly,’ he said.

    As cooler weather comes, people need to ‘double down’ on measures that work, Fauci said. ‘Universal mask wearing’ is one, he said, as is keeping a distance from others and frequent hand washing.”

    Mask Wearing — A Measure That Works?
    Ironically, Fauci has stated that “the data on face masks speaks for itself.”17 Now, if we were all to agree that the data does speak for itself, then there would be no mask mandates because the data clearly do NOT support this measure for the public at large.

    As noted by Denis Rancourt, Ph.D., a former full professor of physics and researcher with the Ontario Civil Liberties Association in Canada, all of the well-designed studies that have been published so far have failed to find a statistically significant advantage to wearing a mask versus not wearing one.

    Even research published in the CDC’s own journal found no significant effect of face masks on the transmission of influenza, and research published in the New England Journal of Medicine in May 2020 noted that:18

    “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to COVID-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic COVID-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes).

    The chance of catching COVID-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic …

    It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals.

    Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask …”

    Type of Mask Matters


    According to Fauci, a slow-motion video (above) of an individual talking and sneezing with and without a cloth mask graphically illustrates that masks work.19

    However, the devil’s in the details, and many are using cloth masks or N95-rated masks with breathing valves. As demonstrated in the video below by researchers at the Florida Atlantic University’s College of Engineering and Computer Science, masks with exhalation ports allow potentially infectious droplets to pass through unfiltered.

    As such, these masks do nothing to protect others if you happen to be infected with the virus. As reported by Florida Atlantic University news desk:20

    “For the study,21 just published in the journal Physics of Fluids, researchers employed flow visualization in a laboratory setting using a laser light sheet and a mixture of distilled water and glycerin to generate the synthetic fog that made up the content of a cough-jet.

    They visualized droplets expelled from a mannequin’s mouth while simulating coughing and sneezing. By placing a plastic face shield and an N95-rated face mask with a valve, they were able to map out the paths of droplets and demonstrate how they performed …

    Visualizations for the face mask equipped with an exhalation port indicate that a large number of droplets pass through the exhale valve unfiltered, which significantly reduces its effectiveness as a means of source control.”



    Despite the fact there are clear differences between N95 respirators, valved N95 masks, surgical masks, homemade cloth masks, cotton bandanas and any number of other face coverings, health officials have been strangely mum about these specifics in their mask recommendations.

    Even stranger, when the type of mask is mentioned in the recommendations, it’s typically been cloth masks, which clearly provide the least reliable protection of all. The World Health Organization, for example, encourages universal cloth mask use — not because they’ve been proven to work best but rather because they encourage “cultural expression” and “offer a source of income for those able to manufacture masks within their communities.”22

    If public health officials and politicians continue with mask mandates, then informed citizens might question if current policy is intended more to scare them than follow the science. ~ Stanley Young, Ph.D.
    If masks were in fact a key pandemic control measure, wouldn’t infection control be at the top of the list? As it stands, infection control is nowhere on the list of justifications for universal mask use given by the WHO.23

    Many Experts Have Noted Lack of Scientific Justification
    Quite a few experts in various fields have now spoken out about the lack of evidence to support universal mask mandates. Among the latest is Stanley Young, Ph.D., an applied statistician who currently serves on the Environmental Protection Agency’s scientific advisory board. In an October 14, 2020, article, he writes:24

    “Dr. Mandy Cohen has told us we must wear masks in many kinds of settings. She told us that wearing the masks will help ‘fight’… SARS-CoV-2. Gov. Cooper has told us they are relying on ‘data and science.’ I am a scientist. I disagree.

    Not long ago, I considered the COVID data our health experts were giving us. If masks were so effective, why were we not seeing improvement in the numbers? I decided to dive into the literature ...

    I studied the studies and found one for influenza. The peer-reviewed meta-analysis study looked at flu viral transmission, using 10 randomized clinical trials. When you combine all 10, the study showed that the results are consistent with pure chance.

    Just how did the researcher characterize their results? ‘The evidence from RCTs suggested that the use of face masks either by infected persons or by uninfected persons does not have a substantial effect on influenza transmission …

    In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks.’ Adding up those infected while wearing a mask, 156/3495, 4.46%, and those infected while not wearing a mask, 161/3052, 5.23%, the results are consistent with chance.

    I presented my opinion to Dr. Cohen and her staff. After some prodding, I heard from Mr. Fleischman, a senior official on Mandy’s staff. He provided me with another study that dealt specifically with the COVID-19 virus. Here is what I found.

    The study he sent was a meta-analysis that looked at transmission of the virus. A total of 19 randomized studies were summarized. Here is what they had to say, ‘Medical masks were not effective, and cloth masks even less effective.’ They also noted that ‘… respirators, if worn continually during a shift, were effective but not if worn intermittently.’

    Mechanistically, masks have always only been thought to stop large droplets. Transmission through very fine droplets cannot be stopped by ordinary masks. Most recently, the CDC has confirmed that the virus can be transmitted through fine droplets.

    The meta-analysis that Mr. Fleischman had sent me supports this claim because, again, it showed no benefit to wearing masks. Incidentally, the Netherlands recently dropped the mask mandate saying the research did not support wearing them …

    These two studies provide no scientific basis for one size fit all; if public health officials and politicians continue with mask mandates, then informed citizens might question if current policy is intended more to scare them than follow the science.”

    Journals Refuse to Publish Negative Mask Study
    Perhaps most egregious of all, Danish researchers recently conducted a randomized trial in an effort to prove the usefulness of face masks against COVID-19 infection but ended up proving the opposite. They now are complaining they cannot find a publisher. Peer review journals are simply refusing to accept the paper. Why?

    The controversy has been covered in a Twitter thread25 by Alex Berenson, a former New York Times reporter. The study,26 which is currently only available in German, concluded tens of millions of contaminations can occur each day as people use the masks inappropriately, touch their faces and neglect to wash their hands.

    For this reason, universal mask wearing may actually do more harm than good. This is clearly important information that should be disseminated to the general public, yet medical journals are shunning the paper, probably because it doesn’t align with their narrative that supports universal mask recommendations.

    Undisclosed Mask Dangers
    There’s also evidence to suggest chronic mask wearing can have other unintended health effects. For example, another paper27,28 that has yet to undergo peer-review suggests mask fibers can pose a health risk. According to this paper:29,30

    “There is no biological history of mass masking until the current era. It is important to consider possible outcomes of this society-wide experiment … Masked individuals have measurably higher inspiratory flow than non-masked individuals.

    This study is of new masks removed from manufacturer packaging, as well as a laundered cloth mask, examined microscopically. Loose particulate was seen on each type of mask. Also, tight and loose fibers were seen on each type of mask.

    If every foreign particle and every fiber in every facemask is always secure and not detachable by airflow, then there should be no risk of inhalation of such particles and fibers.

    However, if even a small portion of mask fibers is detachable by inspiratory airflow, or if there is debris in mask manufacture or packaging or handling, then there is the possibility of not only entry of foreign material to the airways, but also entry to deep lung tissue, and potential pathological consequences of foreign bodies in the lungs …

    Further concerns of macrophage response and other immune and inflammatory and fibroblast response to such inhaled particles specifically from facemasks should be the subject of more research.

    If widespread masking continues, then the potential for inhaling mask fibers and environmental and biological debris continues on a daily basis for hundreds of millions of people. This should be alarming for physicians and epidemiologists knowledgeable in occupational hazards.”

    Another potential concern is related to the plastics used. For example, surgical masks are made of polypropylene,31 a known asthma trigger.32 If you have asthma, wearing a surgical mask could potentially worsen your condition.

    “Mask mouth” — tooth decay, gum line recession and potent bad breath — is another effect dentists around the world have raised alarm about. Dr. Rob Ramondi, a dentist and cofounder of One Manhattan Dental told the New York Post:33

    “We’re seeing inflammation in people’s gums that have been healthy forever, and cavities in people who have never had them before. About 50% of our patients are being impacted by this, [so] we decided to name it ‘mask mouth’ …”

    Other common complaints associated with extensive mask wearing include fatigue, headaches, shortness of breath and anxiety,34 likely due to hypoxia (reduced blood oxygenation).35

    According to Dr. Russel Blaylock, face masks “pose serious risks to the healthy,” as the mask can lead to a concentration of viruses in the nasal passages where they can “enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain.”

    The Mask Conundrum
    So, to summarize, while face masks, overall, do not significantly reduce infection rates, N95 respirators (those without breathing valves) are the most effective in terms of blocking respiratory droplets.

    However, they’re also more likely to cause hypoxia when worn for hours on end. According to Blaylock,36 “It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness.” What’s worse, hypoxia is also associated with impairment of immune function.

    “Studies have shown that hypoxia can inhibit the type of main immune cells used to fight viral infections called the CD4+ T-lymphocyte. This occurs because the hypoxia increases the level of a compound called hypoxia inducible factor-1 (HIF-1), which inhibits T-lymphocytes and stimulates a powerful immune inhibitor cell called the Tregs.

    This sets the stage for contracting any infection, including COVID-19 and making the consequences of that infection much graver. In essence, your mask may very well put you at an increased risk of infections and if so, having a much worse outcome,” Blaylock writes.37

    On the other hand, cloth masks and other types of homemade cloth facial coverings, which are most often recommended for the general public, are also the most useless in terms of infection control. So, what gives?

    Consider Peaceful Civil Disobedience



    Clearly, most people are being bombarded with mainstream media propaganda that seeks to convince you that masks are necessary to prevent the spread of COVID-19. So, it is entirely understandable that you would want everyone to wear masks because you believe they will save lives.

    However, if you carefully evaluate the evidence, independent of the mainstream narrative, it is likely you will conclude that this recommendation has nothing to do with decreasing the spread of the virus but more to indoctrinate you into submission.

    Most objections to mask-wearing requirements are not to the masks themselves, but to the mandate, and well-documented consequences such as oxygen deprivation should give anybody pause when considering a legal requirement of wearing masks in public.

    We already see that most people wear masks in public regardless of mandates.38 But it is entirely irresponsible and unethical for governments to mandate such a practice on anybody.

    In my interview with Patrick Wood, he provides compelling evidence that this has been a carefully crafted technocratic strategy that has been in place for the last 50 years or so. By submitting to these orders, we are likely setting the stage for inevitable mandatory vaccinations.

    With COVID-19 fatality rates39,40,41 as low as they are, mandatory mask wearing, social distancing, lockdowns and business shut-downs are not only ineffective and unnecessary, but these measures are also contributing to a global economic collapse. It appears the only justification for this strategy is to increase fear, tyranny and transfer of wealth to the upper 0.00001%.

    Remember back in March 2020 when they said we just need to slow down the rate of infection to avoid overcrowding hospitals? How did we go from that to now having to wear masks everywhere until every trace of the virus has been eliminated, even though a vast majority remain asymptomatic and don’t even know they have the virus unless they get tested?

    I predict it is likely that, at some point in the future, a tradeoff will be offered: Mask mandates will be dropped provided everyone gets vaccinated. By then, many may be willing to take just about anything as long as they don’t have to wear a mask anymore.

    I would encourage you to read up on the many open questions relating to fast-tracked COVID-19 vaccines before making your decision. Overall, it seems the best way to avoid having to make such a devious trade is to engage in civil disobedience now, and go unmasked.

    If civil disobedience feels disconcerting, keep in mind that in many areas, mask rules include the following exception: “You must wear a mask unless you can maintain a 6-foot distance.” In other words, if you’re without a mask and maintain 6-foot social distancing, you’re still in compliance with the rules as written.

    + Sources and References
    1, 4 Fox News April 16, 2020
    2 Liberty Nation May 20, 2020
    3 CNBC March 26, 2020
    5 Research Gate The Event 201 October 2019
    6 CDC.gov MMWR September 11, 2020; 69(36)
    7 CDC MMWR Erratum September 25; 69(38): 1380
    8 Breitbart October 14, 2020
    9 60 Minutes March 8, 2020
    10 Fox News April 3, 2020
    11 MSN June 16, 2020
    12 NY Post July 24, 2020
    13 The Hill July 30, 2020
    14 Market Watch October 26, 2020
    15, 16 CNN October 23, 2020
    17 BGR.com October 11, 2020
    18 New England Journal of Medicine, 2020;382;e63
    19 Huffpost October 23, 2020
    20 Florida Atlantic University September 1, 2020
    21 Physics of Fluids 2020; 32: 091701
    22, 23 WHO.int Advice on the Use of Masks in the Context of COVID-19
    24 NSJonline October 14, 2020
    25 Alex Berenson Twitter October 18, 2020
    26 Infektologie 2020; 15(03): 279-295 DOI: 10.1055/a-1174-6591
    27, 29 Researchgate, Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 1: Friable mask particulate and lung vulnerability
    28, 30 Reddit October 3, 2020
    31 Thomasnet.com How Surgical Masks Are Made
    32 The Lung Association, Ontario, All About Asthma Triggers (PDF)
    33 New York Post August 5, 2020
    34 Breitbart August 1, 2020
    35, 36, 37 Global Research October 14, 2020
    38 Pew Research June 23, 2020
    39 Annals of Internal Medicine September 2, 2020 DOI: 10.7326/M20-5352
    40 American Institute of Economic Research April 24, 2020
    41 CDC.gov August 26, 2020
    Oneness Versus the 1%
    Low Zinc Levels Increase Risk of Death With COVID
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Not sure where your figures are from since they are way below the current U.S. case fatality rate. Sorry, it just isn't true that the rate at which cases get above mild is 1%. We have many more hospitalizations than that.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Um, here's the Wikipedia entry for Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's "controversial" at best, a quack to most. Sorry.

    But you should be able to see that from the "research" he cites: Breitbart? Fox News? He's purveying junk. Stuff about zinc preventing death from COVID has no basis. COVID attacks ACE sites. What does zinc have to do with that? It causes cytokine storms, what does zinc have to do with that?

    And I already dealt with the supposed oxygen loss from wearing masks. It just doesn't happen. People who include this with their "science" are not scientists, they're quacks.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Answer to Old Student in Post #668

    THIS IS AN URGENCY BECAUSE THE CRISIS IS TURNING ON THE CHILDREN. THAT IS MY PRIORITY TO GET ALL ARGUMENTS TO STOP THAT
    Yesterday furious Tory MP Sir Charles Walker accused the government of “’criminalizing parents for seeing children and children for seeing parents”. The new measure in the lower school in France is being challenged by lawyer Carlo Brusa

    I will temporarily advise that risk cases in grandparents wear N-95s when seeing grandchildren. But they must leave the children free of it. No harm or psychological breaking of future adults.
    You are not informed and not “”inclined’” to listen to counter arguments. I also referred to neurological (possibly permanent) and psychological damage building up.

    You keep referring to the great danger of this pandemic. When your scientists will have drawn up a list of all the harm that has been done to the body, all the toxicity, the poisons build up, etc you will see the real pandemic. This civilization has become a bunch of softies afraid of a virus. And the scientists just like the psychiatrists with their electroshock are hitting at the sick with terror and brutal measures. What is being enforced is scientific barbarism trying to cure the wrong epidemic.

    You as a person who practices special meditation techniques should realize a couple of things more.
    There exist energy and higher emotions levels where viruses or illness not affect persons. You certainly know the testimonies of priests or nurses that worked among leper persons or in infectious environments on the battle field and who were not affected.
    Yes people can probably wear masks to run a marathon. As a meditation praticioner you also know of fakirs who eat iron and walk on fire. The spirit can do extraordinary things. My take is that it is extreme and quite crazy.
    I wonder how you with experiments like "clear body" accept putting masks in your aura and etheric field. I would check in what heavy energies you really tap in with the practice to accept so much arguments for panic and brutality. Sincerely.
    Last edited by Philippe; 3rd November 2020 at 09:56.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Um, here's the Wikipedia entry for Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's "controversial" at best, a quack to most. Sorry.

    But you should be able to see that from the "research" he cites: Breitbart? Fox News? He's purveying junk. Stuff about zinc preventing death from COVID has no basis. COVID attacks ACE sites. What does zinc have to do with that? It causes cytokine storms, what does zinc have to do with that?

    And I already dealt with the supposed oxygen loss from wearing masks. It just doesn't happen. People who include this with their "science" are not scientists, they're quacks.
    So you say that wearing a mask does not reduce oxygen intake?

    Old student, I think you need to become a new student. Time for a new education.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Yes, I've worn them for medical when necessary for years. They don't. I don't really need a "new education", you need to stop pretending that precautions taken for over 100 years for situations of mitigating infectious disease spread have suddenly become harmful because you don't want to implement them.

    There are lots of respirators used in emergency medicine, and even more used in HAZMAT, fire, and in hospital settings. Suddenly, because someone turned wearing masks into a political theater thing, they are all harmful? Don't think so.

    Nobody -- nobody -- is proposing that the general public wear N-95s which are the only "mask" out there for sort of daily PPE use. Those would be the most restrictive on your air supply if you were wearing them, and I've worn them for hours, the doctors and nurses in the ED and the COVID wards are wearing them for 14 hour shifts. No. They don't impede getting oxygen. Put one on, put a pulse ox on your finger and see for yourself.

    As for other respirators, the only ones used in the field except for HAZMAT and fire are used to deliver oxygen, and those certainly don't impede oxygen intake at all.

    As for non-respirator masks like surgical masks and cloth masks, no, they don't even stop air from getting in around the sides, let alone prevent it from getting to your lungs.

    If you weren't getting enough oxygen, you would exhibit symptoms of hypoxia. Show me an article that documents anyone showing these, or a lower pulse ox reading.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    They would have no effect at all. I have a breathing problem that sometimes is present when I am sleeping and that does affect my clear body experiments in the following way: I get taught how to end the problem -- so far two techniques have been taught: Reaching inside and shaking my esophagus and trachea, and generating surges of nausea. Both work well, both are much easier to do when I am not having the problem than when I am. But I could easily do all of it with a mask on.

    Quote I will temporarily advise that risk cases in grandparents wear N-95s when seeing grandchildren. But they must leave the children free of it. No harm or psychological breaking of future adults.
    You are not informed and not “”inclined’” to listen to counter arguments. I also referred to neurological (possibly permanent) and psychological damage building up.
    You will advise that? Do you practice medicine?
    You are making a mistake. Children should not visit grandparents if the latter are at special risk without quarantining first. As for not putting a mask on a child because of psychological damage, children are not the "bunch of softies" you are making them out to be. It is far better to mitigate and try not to spread this infection than to condemn these children to living year after year in this pandemic mode because a segment of society wants to rebel against settled science and do things that spread infection. Have you seen our U.S. statistics lately? That is what will happen in France if you let people free-for-all on mitigation. We've lost more people than in all the wars other than WWII and the Civil War combined. We're losing more than a thousand Americans a day. We have 100,000 new cases a day. We have hospitals overwhelmed with serious cases in six states. This place has become a hellhole because of "I don't want to wear a mask or refrain from large gatherings" babies.


    Quote You keep referring to the great danger of this pandemic. When your scientists will have drawn up a list of all the harm that has been done to the body, all the toxicity, the poisons build up, etc you will see the real pandemic. This civilization has become a bunch of softies afraid of a virus. And the scientists just like the psychiatrists with their electroshock are hitting at the sick with terror and brutal measures. What is being enforced is scientific barbarism trying to cure the wrong epidemic.
    You worry about children being "sick with terror" but don't worry about people being dead with virus? On what planet is that humane? Only doctors take the Hippocratic Oath in this country by rules, but it stands as a given for those lower down on the medical totem pole. "First, do no harm." Screwing around with quack theories on the internet is doing harm. Us lower downs in the medical world have more exposure to BBP and airborne and droplet vectors than some others. We wear our PPE like a religion. If we don't, we get sick. Really sick. And none of us has died or become disabled from terrors of wearing masks or other PPE. I don't do emergency medicine, but I spent 15 years working along side those people. What sidelines too many emergency workers with PTSD is scenes that are both horrific and senseless. And having the whole world cave in on them like the NYC responders and medics had during March and April with morgue trucks and 15 CPRs a day and responding to find people dead in their homes of COVID is horrific. It's also senseless when the reason for it is people playing games with the health of others on the internet by spreading falsehoods.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Um, here's the Wikipedia entry for Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's "controversial" at best, a quack to most.
    I genuinely thought I was the only one who had this opinion. It's refreshing to see this post. It's not his wiki page that throws me off but his very own site. But I'll leave it at that, you're braver (or maybe more patient) than myself. People can do as they wish when treating their own bodies.

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Yes, I've worn them for medical when necessary for years. They don't. I don't really need a "new education", you need to stop pretending that precautions taken for over 100 years for situations of mitigating infectious disease spread have suddenly become harmful because you don't want to implement them.

    There are lots of respirators used in emergency medicine, and even more used in HAZMAT, fire, and in hospital settings. Suddenly, because someone turned wearing masks into a political theater thing, they are all harmful? Don't think so.

    Nobody -- nobody -- is proposing that the general public wear N-95s which are the only "mask" out there for sort of daily PPE use. Those would be the most restrictive on your air supply if you were wearing them, and I've worn them for hours, the doctors and nurses in the ED and the COVID wards are wearing them for 14 hour shifts. No. They don't impede getting oxygen. Put one on, put a pulse ox on your finger and see for yourself.
    Oh my god I love you.

    Joking aside I think there's a miscommunication between 'air' and 'oxygen'.
    That's life, and I can't deny it
    Many times I thought of cuttin' out but my heart won't buy it

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    You worry about children being "sick with terror" but don't worry about people being dead with virus? On what planet is that humane?
    Old Student I think you worry too much.
    It would probably be worthwhile to get out more and smell the roses.

    The all-cause morbidity numbers in most countries is the same as it has been for the past decade.
    What officials are calling 'CV deaths' now is just smoke and mirrors, covering up deaths that would otherwise be attributed to other causes.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Answer to Old Student Post #677t

    I respect your experience and the religious discipline you had wearing your N-95 masks.
    If it is true for all circumstance and of enough value is another point.
    Just notice the failure of making it respected on a large scale. It can only go wrong. So it is time to accept that and listen to other solutions that are offered and are working. How do you dare treating those as quackery? I stand by my opinion that we live in a scientific barbarism.
    The enforcement now in France for kids in lower school has been well described by some mothers as a devious scheme towards forced vaccination of children. First you make the mask mandatory and then they will say you can only leave the mask if you get your vaccin. Please do some more study on the forum and see what that vaccin will do with humanity. Say to hell with the mask manipulation and choose freedom.

    And another very very terrible thing I must say: the deaths you are describing in all their horrible details are unavoidable and will continue for a while as the baby boomer generation is having less and less life expectancy. No measure of lockdown, mask or vaccin will stop that or greatly postpone it, on the contrary.
    Scream all you want , it is happening. The actual epidemic of poisoned weak bodies is taking its toll. Those at risk have little or no knowledge of holistic solutions to protect and purify their bodies.
    As an old student you and many see how part of your society is on its deathbed . And like many persons before death they panic. Take the advice given to go and sniff some daisies and work on you spiritual condition. In my literature I reread every once in a while a chapter about dying by Ikeda Daisaku, the leader of the Soka Gakkai, the Japanese budhist movement and practice. I did not easily encounter philosophers who give good advice how to prepare for inevitable death and peaceful reincarnations.

    I return to my forums to stop this mask wearing for children 8h per day in school. It is a useless serious crime against youngsters that can not defend themselves. I choose for real life for that generation. Thanks for your advice on N-95 mask for the grandparents at risk. People in my forums like it as a good diplomatic solution for grandparents and children. Do not accept lasting destruction of loving relations!
    Last edited by Philippe; 8th November 2020 at 12:10.

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