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Thread: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My own comments:
    1. This is important, because in the event that Derek Chauvin night be acquitted (not impossible!), then all bets would be off re what might happen next.
    2. It seems absolutely self-evident that the other officers who stood watching should be charged. Again, if they were civilians and not in uniform, they'd all have been arrested by now. Being police officers doesn't exonerate them from anything at all when they watch a crime being committed feet away from them and do absolutely nothing to prevent it.
    And what about the "official" autopsy which claimed no asphyxiation? Shouldn't all involved with THAT be charged with attempted coverup ( LOOKS like a CONSPIRACY to cover up).

    2020 is certainly illuminating all the roaches. They always lived here but maybe now we will do something?

    There is a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE culture in which violence is justified "In the name of>>>>"

    This culture is now a giant pus filled boil erupting. I am really glad I live in a rural area right now.



    Last edited by Delight; 1st June 2020 at 23:20.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Luke Holiday writes:

    Because of the overwhelming inherent goodness and loving nature of the human spirit - the cabalist elite must fiercely maintain the ubiquitous saturation of the Perception Deception throughout the entirety of global society in order to cause, create and maintain perpetual human violence/ destruction. It is here, in massively changing global perceptions, that forums like PA are most effective, and must continue.

    The human spirit is many things, and goodness and loving-ness exist in different proportions, in different people, under varying conditions. If you take too fundamentalist an approach to man's character and spirit, you end up denying your own shadow and projecting it outward.

    You will identify with those you feel are 'good,' united against those you feel are 'bad.' When you are angry, you will try to veil it. When you are irked and disagree, you will continue to try to impose your ideas and your will, barely concealing the source of your profound irritation. If you want to see a monster, look in the mirror. This is an exercise we all need to do.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    You Can't Talk and Listen at the Same Time

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Yes, I think the Soros agitation, whether literally true or something very close to it, is the tried-and-true method. Soon, someone who is not a policeman will start shooting the crowds, and then it will get more insane.

    Floyd's brother said he was about peace, and so the "single issue", or trigger, is already invalidated. Maybe it will return in the future like an olive branch.

    The actual American Revolution was pretty simple because it was mainly an attack on the British government. The French Revolution is much more complicated since it was, initially, a revolt against the government, but then, "this" happened, if not literally Soros, then something close to it. This is why most other revolutions are not exactly genuine, from the arrival of all sorts of masked banditry.

    Amnesty is not necessarily the most trustworthy source in the world, but, their description of Israeli training for U. S. police is pretty solid. Minneapolis seems to have an above average use of this particular technique, 44 ko's by knee submission in five years.

    Whatever goes on in D. C. is for amusement purposes; generally, the purpose of being armed is for the security of the state, which is not there, and so if this festers locally, I would be pushed to the side of defense of someone and their civilian affairs. That is what it means, I am not sure that I would do anything for the integrity of the political unit in the capital, but these rioters need to understand that "the people" will be a far worse threat to them than the police. In the inner cities, they are somewhat disarmed, but I would not be the least bit surprised if we hear for instance of Texas vigilantes. Or, if Posse Comitatus vanishes, and the 101st Airborne does their version of crowd control as has been suggested.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    WOW This has just turned ugly...
    Quote President Donald Trump said he would mobilize “all available federal resources, civilian and military” to clamp down on protests across the country, declaring himself the “president of law and order” as police aggressively dispersed protesters gathered outside the White House. Trump said he was dispatching the military across Washington, D.C., and urged governors nationwide to “dominate” their streets with National Guard deployments. If they refused, he said, he would send in troops to American cities.
    The adress starts at 28:30. I think the video was purposefully set to record for that long before the address so one could hear the flashes and bangs outside the WH.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    [QUOTE=Bill Ryan;1358887]Some may not yet be aware of these successive news reports just a few minutes ago. (From CNN, here, also on other media)

    ~~
    Independent autopsy shows Floyd died due to compression to the neck and back, examiners say

    An autopsy ordered by the family of George Floyd showed that Floyd died of "asphyxia" due to compression to the neck and back, two medical examiners said.

    Dr. Allecia Wilson said, "the evidence is consistent with mechanical asphyxia as the cause of death." She called Floyd's death a "homicide."

    Dr. Michael Baden also said that Floyd died of "asphyxia" due to compression to the neck and back.

    Baden said that the "autopsy shows that no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death. He was in good health."

    Family attorney says George Floyd died from asphyxiation

    Disputing an initial police finding, a private autopsy report commissioned by George Floyd’s family found that Floyd died from asphyxiation caused by sustained neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain, according to a statement from Floyd family attorney Ben Crump.

    Dr. Allecia Wilson, who conducted the autopsy, described the manner of death as homicide at a news conference today.

    Crump’s statement further calls for the arrest of all the officers who played a part in Floyd’s death and calls for a first-degree murder charge to be brought against Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis Police Department seen kneeling on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes in a video caught on social media.

    Attorney says Floyd was dead on the scene

    Attorney Ben Crump said George Floyd was “dead on the scene” in Minneapolis.

    “The ambulance was his hearse,” Crump said during a news conference where the Floyd family unveiled an independent autopsy.

    “Police officers were the reason for (George Floyd’s) death,” Floyd family attorney Antonio Romanucci said. "There are extreme and systemic failures in the Minneapolis police department."

    My own comments
    :
    [*]This is important, because in the event that Derek Chauvin night be acquitted (not impossible!), then all bets would be off re what might happen next.[*]It seems absolutely self-evident that the other officers who stood watching should be charged. Again, if they were civilians and not in uniform, they'd all have been arrested by now. Being police officers doesn't exonerate them from anything at all when they watch a crime being committed feet away from them and do absolutely nothing to prevent it.[/LIST][/QUOTE












    I have included Bill';s entire post for comparison of the states vs the family's private autopsy:

    I just wanted to add some perspective by incuding initial state medical investigations to this discussion :

    I highlighted the initial state medical examiners reports with emphasis on the toxicology report - from a recent AP article - likely the same or a very similar article that Bill is quoting from: =

    The independent examiners found that weight on Floyd's back, the handcuffs and the positioning were contributory factors because they impaired the ability of Floyd's diaphragm to function.


    Later Monday, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office released its initial findings of their autopsy and also declared Floyd's death was a homicide caused by "a cardiopulmonary arrest whilebeing restrained by law enforcement officer(s)."
    [/B]

    The medical examiner's preliminary report, however, said Floyd had "other significant conditions," including "arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, a fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use."


    .. Now from the independent examiner:

    Wilson said toxicology reports and other examinations are still ongoing and acknowledged that since they conducted a second autopsy, as the medical examiner had done one previously, they did not have access to Floyd's tissue samples in their original state.


    A few comments:

    1. The fact that the state Medical Examiner's toxicology report reveals that Mr. Floyd was Fentanyl intoxicated with meth on board are vitally important for two reasons:

    A. The fact that you have narcotic intoxication combined with an extremely powerful street stimulant on board are very strong contributing factors to cause of death which will be used by the defense at trial. (Note these are very strong contributing factors for both asphyxiation or cardiopulmonary arrest)

    B. It Contributes favorably to the Black/White tension issue as the white community may view Mr. Floyd as a drug addict who was caught using counterfeit money, followed by resisting arrest, while intoxicated and unfortunately died while the police were simply doing their job as they were trained to do it. (No judgement here, these are just the facts as portrayed by the MSM/police reports and...

    Once again this will be used by the defense in trial

    2. It will be interesting to see what the family examiner's toxicology report reveals. I believe that the fate of the case will rest on this report.... If it is that same as the state's report - he walks - resulting in massive civil unrest


    3. I would be extremely surprised if the Defendant was found guilty based on these toxicology reports combined with:

    A. Evidence of the officers using the technique/procedures they have trained to use in these situations. (If it is proven that they did not use proper technique/ procedures which directly contributed to the Medical examiners cause of death - He will likely be convicted)

    B. The massive civil unrest that will likely occur if he is acquitted - would obviously grease the wheels of the Cabal's future plans. (Now this could also work in the favor of the accused being convicted … as ensueing chaos would be avoided. - it all depends on the presented evidence and who is making the descisions).


    C: Also as an aside: once again I am very curiously suspicious of the new MSM Mr Floyd photo in front of a Corona sign looking photoshopped. I know Bill calls it a trivial matter - but is it? - Perhaps it is only meant for those with eyes to see - food for thought (Also I am unable to upload the photo? ) Here are 2 links which contains the photo:

    https://www.fox9.com/news/4-minneapo...f-george-floyd

    https://www.diariopanorama.com/notic...estados-unidos

    Blessings Luke
    Last edited by Luke Holiday; 2nd June 2020 at 09:09.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    A wide-ranging and informative conversation. Thank you, one and all, for adding this to the discussion and ongoing record of Project Avalon. I can always count on PA to "bring the noise" and express a diverse array of opinions and potentialities.

    I spent quite a bit of time discussing Racism in a thread of Bill's creation.

    During that discussion, some of the issues we see burning cities across America were brought to the fore and debated. A lot of valuable comments were made and some in-depth discussion and exploration occurred.

    I was happy to engage and to share what some of y'all might consider a Social Justice Warrior's (SJW) position but which I claim as a balanced, realistic perspective of what racism is and how it has been deployed to contribute so mightily to our collective understanding of who and what we and our tribes are in this world fraught with pain and heartache.

    Both sides of the American coin are jacked, the left and the right, the front and the back. Each exploits the people in similar and different ways. In the end, we all Government Issue (GIs), born into an experimental state of being at multiple levels of interdimensional reality.

    I claim direct experience. I'm an Experiencer. Just like some of you. Not just of what racism looks like, feels like, acts and seems like and pretends to be like - in the United States of America and also in other places around the world I have lived - but of what racism is and what kind of lifestyle and psychological state its effects reduce those of us exposed to it to. I'm also an Experiencer of the 5th Kind as well as other, potentially military-involved abduction scenarios.

    I don't talk about that as it's not all clear to me and its not the point here, only an aside to my deeper experiential understanding of the perceived Out-group reality.

    I see a lot of valid considerations in this thread, a lot of potentialities. I think it is possible that Bad Actors on all sides are having a field day, be they Nazis or Antifa. And that people truly concerned with justice and equity will bear the brunt of their extremism.

    I haven't watched the video. Don't need to.

    I've been taken off a train and escorted back across the American/Canadian by 3 border cops and a dog. Ive spent a night in jail. I've been pulled over many times, ticketed and warned, and only my nature, which y'all here are intimately familiar with, allowed me to get through most of these encounters not only with my life but with sympathetic and reasonable interactions with all law enforcement officers involved. I know the fear George Floyd felt, the taste of copper in his mouth when the interaction began and can clearly empathize with what he may have felt when he fell beneath the treatment he received from those cops.

    Not everyone is me. Not every black or brown person speaks like I do or has my demeanor and yet even I have gone off on a cop in a situation where the engagement was unreasonable and inequitable. I'd say that only the presence of my white wife saved me in that instance, judging by the look of hatred and rage that officer cast in my direction before stalking back to his vehicle.

    All of that said to say, it is always a crap shoot. Always a mystery, how any interaction of black men with law enforcement is going to go.

    And if Floyd knew Chauvin from working the club and they had beef? That normalizes and trivializes the entire event even more as just another day in America. But it was not, was it.

    I wrote this article and shared our story here in San Marcos, TX not to cast any more kindling upon the flames. That is not who I am nor what I want. I want America to be all it can truly be, which means this dichotomy that separates us, burning higher on the MSM alter of loosh extraction that keeps us at each other's throats, has to be chipped at and blasted away and, sometimes, it takes big events to make big changes.

    None of these folks knew how that day was going to go. This event was not big. This was one man. One event in one city.

    But its effects will affect us all.

    Cite, Release, George Floyd and Misdemeanors: what is it going to take?



    So yeah, that’s me.

    The black guy. Up there in the top left. Next to me is Jocabed Marquez, below me, friend and mentor Melissa Derrick and next to her, new San Marcos City Council Member, Maxfield Baker.

    We have all been elected and re-elected in the past 2 years, part of a new wave of politicians rising Deep in the Heart of Texas, in the past 7 years or so. We represent change through direct action, the manifestation of the hearts and souls of the growing majority of mainstreamed, marginalized and melanated bodies and tribes of Texas rising to claim our state and our lives as our nation struggles with its Original Sin, once again.

    I’m not interested in going too deeply into the details of what has happened this time around, the entire world knows already and there are legions of those addressing the ongoing violence and collective reckoning. Another Great Soul has left the planet and we are left to understand the message his passing has left with us.

    George Floyd and the Litany of Black Sacrifices have sunk into the collective consciousness of white America, not that our shining souls and collective black American selves haven’t always had a place there since the beginning. Since the beginning, that is, of this nation’s cultural war against blackne-I mean, badness, because everything is dichotomized in America, is it not? Those of us who live here know her. We know how Lady Liberty simpers in her long gowns with her drawers hanging from her torch, casting a knowing wink back at her French builders then looking forward to her American rapists, knowing full well that their ethical compromises set this nation on a course way back then that had to be reconciled someday in some way.

    We’re the bad guys, to some. We’re the folks who want criminals to walk the streets, according to this Wanted poster. We’re the ones that, apparently, are lawless demogogues undermining Law and Order and contributing to Lawlessness. That’s how it was framed in the image I included in this writing, apparently sanctioned by a high-ranking member of the city’s Police Association.
    Obviously we are not that. We are, instead, the ones who did not want to see another day like the days that we’ve been collectively experiencing lately.

    The kind of day that has been coming and that is also here. Every day these days it seems we bear witness to yet another offense against the soul and the psychological underpinnings of anyone who considers themselves to be a good human. Because not everybody does, right? Nor should they, the world requires dark and light — another dichotomy — to keep on rolling. It requires sacrifice upon the Alter of Polarity and just as it is with atoms and molecules, the fundamental forces of creation, all material manifestation arises from deep, abiding blackness into sharp, revealing white light. From the absence of all color to the presence of all possible shades and hues, so the flow of our lives mirror creation in the natural world itself.

    My fellow Council Members and I have been working on Criminal Justice Reform in the city of San Marcos, 20 minutes south of Austin and 45 north of San Antonio, since August of last year. The activist organization Mano Amiga brought it to the table when it was made clear that the police here had the same problem as pretty much every law enforcement organization in the nation with the equitable distribution of justice to its entire population.

    We’re not in this to “win” this, persay. We’re not trying to release all criminals. Far from it. We are in this because we are this and this is all that we can do. We are in this to find a way through this morass, a swamp 400 years in the making and, simultaneously, re-center the focus of this system so that it comes through for as many people as possible no matter how they look. We stand to speak out and act out in ways that ensure that everyone’s access to equal justice is assured.
    Just like many of you are doing, wherever you are in your life right now.

    While our police situation here in San Marcos has not had any high profile cases that we are now reeling from nationally, there have of course been injustices over the years and what came to light last summer was the belated statistical acknowledgement that blacks and browns didn’t receive the same consideration by law enforcement as whites. A problem we here in San Marcos decided to attack last summer.

    Each and every one of you out here or in there, protesting or watching, sharing or holding it all in, weeping and raging, engaged in the tumult of direct confrontation or playing the long game of working through whatever part of the system you contact, on the daily, in your myriad and indivisible ways or being black, brown, yellow, red and white in the world, designations which are now more meaningless than they ever have been before, is a part of this change. We were born for these times and we are all on point, doing what we are supposed to be doing.

    But you can do more.

    I got involved with another council member now running for County Commissioner, Lisa Prewitt, when we were invited to a meeting of County Law Enforcement to discuss and update a local interpretation of the state’s 2007 Cite and Release law, allowing people who had committed certain Class C, B and A misdemeanors to be cited rather than arrested. We sat with citizens, with community lawyers and activists, with police chiefs and a magistrate judge for 8 months, hammering out a potential Resolution or Ordinance that was more or less agreeable to all parties and we passed it.
    4 city council members to 3. Even the council members and most of the citizens who did not approve of the Ordinance wanted it to be a Resolution. But the majority wanted to provide guidance to officer discretion so that events like the one that just took the life of George Floyd would not happen.

    According to Texas Penal Code § 32.21, possession and transfer of a Counterfeit bill is “…a Class C misdemeanor if the value of the property or service is less than $100…”.

    Y’all get that?

    If George had been in San Marcos and the officers of THIS city had been FOLLOWING THE LAW then he should have been released with a citation. NOT held down and KILLED over groceries.

    We seek, here in San Marcos, to continue, alongside our County, Hays, to implement Cite and Divert, where individuals encountering law enforcement on what may be the worst day of their lives don’t even get put in the system at all as a criminal case. Then, we seek to assay the Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion (LEAD) program as a way by which officers and counselors can assist folks in the grip of addiction of any kind, help, which they need right there on the scene of the encounter, rather than arrest, criminalization and a descent into further and more abiding despair.

    A full slate of criminal justice reforms are necessary and I don’t mind if y’all take a page from what we’re doing and bring it to your cities, towns and villages. Let’s make this a national campaign. Let’s do whatever it is we can do, however we can do it, to make sure that we are paying attention before the terrible events happen, before more lives are lost. Despite how it may seem sometimes, it is possible to change the system if you really try. If you elect politicians that mean it. If you hold your city’s police department accountable and make them share the numbers and, if they don’t add up to equity, make them change! Demand that they change!

    Do what you have to do to make this a better world.

    I didn’t get in this for fame and fortune, I stood up for my city when my peers and mentors called me to do so. I know there are many others out there right now who have been and are doing the same. Because it is our time. Our time to make the changes and be the change that we’ve wanted to bear witness to. Instead of just sitting and watching, which is life as usual for many of us, many, many of you are out there in the streets, railing against the negative externality of a predatory capitalist system that requires blood to continue its remorseless clacking into a mechanistic and transhumanistic future.

    We only get one of these as the people we are. 3-score and 10 some say, then out like a light, a cacaphony of “sound and fury” we are, as the old school poet Shakespeare once wrote. You gotta make it count and do it for your children and your children’s children. If you don’t have kids, do it for your sister’s kids, your friend’s kids, your neighbor down the hall’s bad-ass rug rats who have to live in this world that we have furthered in its ends and upheld in its dysfunction in our myriad and unequally culpable ways down through the centuries.

    Because if we don’t do it, who will?

    Those folks looking back across at you, from behind police shields and canted tear-gas containers, prepared to further disturb your peace?
    Last edited by Mark; 2nd June 2020 at 19:21. Reason: add title

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    I'd just like to add one more observation that I just made.
    I thought about it last night and checked the video now.

    No one here has commented on it as far as I know and I feel it is quite significant.

    Watch the first minute of the video when the police arrive on the scene and enter the convenience store.

    Watch it carefully and think to yourself the following:

    a) George is sitting in his vehicle on a street adjacent to the convenience store.
    A door is open on the passenger side.
    What is going on there? Why is the door open?
    Why is George sitting around in his vehicle?
    George either knew he passed off a counterfeit bill, or he didn't.
    If he knew he did, would he sit around casually in his vehicle or would he drive off right away?
    I would think he would drive off right away, if he knew he had passed a counterfeit bill.
    So my bet at this point would be that he didn't know he gave a counterfeit bill.

    b) Now this is REALLY interesting!
    The cops come out of the store fairly quickly and immediately know exactly where to go! They beeline it straight to George's vehicle.
    How is that possible?
    That is a busy intersection. Lots of traffic and cars parked on both sides of the intersecting streets.
    How did they know where George was sitting?
    Did the convenience store have outside cameras in all directions?
    Did the store clerk, recognize immediately that the bill was counterfeit and then follow George live through the camera, or re-wind the tapes to find where he went?
    If the store didn't have a camera on its side and to the back, then how could the cops have known where to go right away?

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    From DaveToo's post


    George is sitting in his vehicle on a street adjacent to the convenience store.
    A door is open on the passenger side.
    What is going on there? Why is the door open?
    Why is George sitting around in his vehicle?
    George either knew he passed off a counterfeit bill, or he didn't.
    If he knew he did, would he sit around casually in his vehicle or would he drive off right away?
    I would think he would drive off right away, if he knew he had passed a counterfeit bill.
    So my bet at this point would be that he didn't know he gave a counterfeit bill...



    I could not agree more that many things about this case are curiously suscpicious - but if I were Prosecuting attorney ….

    … (Taken directly from the AP news article) The medical examiner's preliminary report, however, said Floyd had "other significant conditions," including "arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, a fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use."

    With this on board who is to say what would be " normal" behavior


    Blessings Luke
    Last edited by Luke Holiday; 2nd June 2020 at 05:36.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    I have seen all types of conflict and with each incursion that happens between families, armies, countries and in most cases the world nothing is ever the same or changes as a result of the conflict. At every level of your society, from the personal to the international scale, treaties and peace agreements that are signed are a falsehood where a power imbalances exist; thus true peace cannot exist, only more and less violent forms of war, and this fact is key to evolving our era and how it directly affects your lives. Thus to rid ourselves of the money-nexus, to establish a society run with love as its first principle, is a prerequisite of true peace.

    The truth is...you can only identify your friends by the content of their character, by how they love you and seek to see the world through the perspectives of the oppressed, poor and hungry. Your friends can have any ethnicity and be from any economic class. So tune out the speech of hate and tune in the stories of tyranny and violence - then follow the development of traumatised populations and see them through the lens of compassion. We are born to thrive together as one species and to both listen and see through our hearts. We do not inherit the sins of our fathers, but if we have inherited privilege then it is our duty to help others and remove power dynamics. I am only free when we all are. I only have peace internally and externally when we all do.

    Let's shift our idea of what chaos is, because it shifts how we relate to freedom. For when we do this the arguments of libertarian vs authoritarian fall mute. It is obvious, or should be, that a complex global society needs people with great organisational skills who are deeply humanitarian and committed to fairness and peace to take positions of service. Thus, the greater the ability the deeper the service role they can volunteer for or be asked to consider. This performs the tasks of government without any notion of power, for their only right to perform the task comes from the trust the community places in them. Thus, when we have an improved form of democracy of deeply empathic and analytical intellectuals to service institutes there is real freedom for all. We have all the structures available to thrive and be organised, yet everyone is free to choose their own path in the system, everyone with good food and shelter as a right rather than as a thing to "earn."

    This is compatible with modern brain science, for when we are free of need our brains become capable of being part of a socially complex society with self control and desiring to follow a passion, to develop the self as an individual and work for the benefit of others. Thus, this is chaos organised so intelligently that the order comes from the best parts of our human nature. In a good environment we are all good, not from external force but internal emotions and needs - that's when we have a lasting peace and a thriving planet. If we imagine what we have now as a triangle, the most powerful at the top and the least at the bottom; this is flipping it over to have most service at the bottom and most vulnerable at the top. And this is done alongside making resource allocation both fair and separate from this system of service roles. We can still have a Queen, her role is to serve and protect, the same comes of other roles - true service, wise "chiefs" without ego, noble and self-sacrificing - real heroes.

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope some day you'll join us
    And the world will be as one...................John Lennon. Musician.


    I agree that Black Lives Matter, but I further believe that ALL LIFE MATTERS REGARDLESS OF ETHNICITY.
    Last edited by GMB1961; 3rd June 2020 at 12:15.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    You will identify with those you feel are 'good,' united against those you feel are 'bad.' When you are angry, you will try to veil it. When you are irked and disagree, you will continue to try to impose your ideas and your will, barely concealing the source of your profound irritation. If you want to see a monster, look in the mirror. This is an exercise we all need to do.
    I like the way you think, AutumnW.

    I stumbled on this tonight and was thinking how much I enjoyed hearing from a police chief forced into an interview situation where he has to answer a very difficult, emotionally charged question.

    I think he did a pretty good job of it.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...k-in-politics/
    Last edited by helium; 2nd June 2020 at 06:46.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Trump tells governors to 'dominate' protesters on leaked audio recording (8:09)
    President Donald Trump, agitated and distressed after three nights of violent protests in dozens of cities across the country,
    including outside of his home, told the nation's governors in a video teleconference Monday to aggressively target violent protesters.

    "You have to dominate or you'll look like a bunch of jerks, you have to arrest and try people," the President told the governors
    in a call from the basement White House Situation Room, according to an audio recording of the call obtained by CNN.
    (Starts at 1:01)
    Last edited by Richter; 4th June 2020 at 03:22.
    You Can't Talk and Listen at the Same Time

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    I was happy to engage and to share what some of y'all might consider a Social Justice Warrior's (SJW) position but which I claim as a balanced, realistic perspective of what racism is and how it has been deployed to contribute so mightily to our collective understanding of who and what we and our tribes are in this world fraught with pain and heartache.
    This has many angles.

    To some extent, America has always had a type of non-racist equality platform. In the beginning, it was, perhaps, difficult and rare for blacks to become free land owners, but it happened. And we can find from among these, that, for example, Marcus Garvey was dedicated to Eugenics.

    This has an older Platonic meaning, "good breeding", which is what Garvey had in mind. Modern Eugenics is a different beast more like ethnic cleansing. When the Statue of Liberty went up, a huge stream of refugees came from Italy--in fact they were automatically granted political asylum due to the papal wars. But around the turn of 1900 we can find a couple things:

    Ivy League such as Harvard, Yale, etc., re-established dead Greek words such as moron, imbecile, and idiot as poor ranks in eugenics. This was mainly aimed as the "Meds" or Italians and other southern Europeans, along with laziness and other character disorders. Its teaching was heavily adopted by Sweden and Germany. Then there was also basically the first public racist propaganda to arouse support for a capitalist war. The Boer War was generally known to have nothing to do with security but was about private fortunes, and it used the relatively new, modern printing presses to broadcast messages mainly about Dutch and Germans equating them to animals.

    It turns out to be true that modern, institutionalized racism stems from mostly British white people ranting against other white people.

    I might also say the American slave issue is not straightforward. In most senses, what wound up happening was Lincoln's Empire War. And I think the blacks were connived and used in this process. Garibaldi refused to accept the Union command because slavery was not the real issue. Lincoln himself referred several times to empire preservation. And so what he did is he declared slaves free where he had no power--in rebellious southern states. He did nothing about slaveholding Union states. And so after the war's end comes an act in 1871 which removes the freed slave is only 3/5 of a person. So they were legally equal. Ok, I believe this was used in court one whole time in the defense of a former slave. Instead, it was purloined by Pharisees and used to make the legal term "person" apply to corporations. Once we have that basis, then the ball starts rolling towards a whole, whole lot of adjustments and alterations that favor the money power.

    Then we find that, despite legal equality, most blacks did not have a whole lot to be happy about until what went on in the 1960s. And so I have personal experience with black folks related to the sit-in mentality, and, one of their main points was that they were being neat and civilized and therefor they deserved the same respect as anyone.

    Sequentially, these guys cannot stand the next generation or the ratty gangbanger ones anyway. They have been saying that is not the freedom or equal rights they struggled for.

    So those things are facets on the remaining sore thumb:

    There are white people who simply do not like black people.

    There are black people who simply do not like white people.

    I do not think I can exactly be a racist, since there are plenty of other white people I don't like. I am disqualified from being a supremacist, since I have some Cherokee, I could only get in as a crypto until they found out and killed me. I went to town earlier, and when I got home, the same area I just was, was rioted. So was the next town down the road. And so there is for example one video of a couple of white people looting a store for eight minutes. So I'm losing track that Minneapolis might be a bit generous with racially-motivated knee suppression as they may have gotten from Israel, who does the same thing.

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Our time to make the changes and be the change that we’ve wanted to bear witness to. Instead of just sitting and watching, which is life as usual for many of us, many, many of you are out there in the streets, railing against the negative externality of a predatory capitalist system that requires blood to continue its remorseless clacking into a mechanistic and transhumanistic future.

    Yes, as "anyone", we might ought to finger Capitalism, which rendered its own clear picture in the Boer War and now we are getting a closer look. It is only partially a theory or idea, since it materially exists as a set of definitions and laws, especially "person". Because we can narrowly gauge the whole thing, then it is not hard for me at least to describe the type of protest I would support.

    Cite instead of Arrest is a reasonable maneuver.

    At this point, I believe you could find GoFundMes for bail from protesting, which is being set stupidly high, and so some cities are simply raking in a pile of their own loot. Mostly around here they are making handshakes and hugs about "this was peaceful today", which is probably not very effective for any cause, versus a few outbreaks of damage.

    I was told one story of a woman setting the back of a store on fire, and then running up front and getting in a wheelchair for a disguise. When people noticed the fire and panicked, she starts stabbing people running out. But then apparently they overpowered her and mauled her severely.

    There is sporadic gunfire at police in St. Louis, someone tried to run them over in Buffalo.

    The medical examiner said Floyd was on fentanyl. Howso? Johnson & Johnson product maybe? You know, hold them accountable for everything? Worth a look, maybe a little contact tracing. They probably sent in enough to exterminate the whole state three times over. It clouded his judgment and made him go to the wrong place, which was regular, everyday life.

    This is a mess of messes, legitimate issues mixed with agitation.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    I'd just like to add one more observation that I just made.
    I thought about it last night and checked the video now.

    No one here has commented on it as far as I know and I feel it is quite significant.

    Watch the first minute of the video when the police arrive on the scene and enter the convenience store.

    Watch it carefully and think to yourself the following:

    a) my bet at this point would be that he didn't know he gave a counterfeit bill.

    b) If the store didn't have a camera on its side and to the back, then how could the cops have known where to go right away?
    a) is probably true since, so far, no one knows he gave a counterfeit bill.

    b) in my understanding is that before talking to the police, the clerk already went outside and asked for the cigarettes. So there is no question where Floyd was. The quick police dash was probably something like--"Did you make the call?"...."Yeah, he's still over there".

    I did not notice a video that shows the full thing. The one where he gets pinned is a bit sketchy, but, it looks like he was not doing very much and collapsed under his own power, two of the cops were hardly affected by the drop. And then they all decide to press him.

    I have been slammed by multiple police a few times, and, it was not like that. In this example, you would see at least one of the cops getting bashed against the car. There would be an obvious altercation. Nothing like that seems to have happened here.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Obviously I don't have any exact numbers but here in the US, outside of the protest/riot areas, there have been thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of interactions between law enforcement and citizens for the five or so days since Floyd was murdered. These interactions took place between and amoung all races and ethnic groups, and were overwhelmingly civil and peaceful.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    An hour ago I wrote a 1,000 word post, all about the Fourth Turning and the global loss of trust in authority.

    And also the loss of trust in just about everything else, including science, information of every kind, any government propaganda, and even in one another.

    I saved it as a draft. I'm not ready to post that yet. But here's the briefest summary:
    • No-one out there knows what to do. No leader anywhere on the planet has the experience or wisdom to deal with any of this. There's a lot of virtue signaling, a lot of righteous words, and a lot of muscle flexing. None of it is likely to help.
    • Dark agendas of every kind will capitalize on the chaos. That chaos has already been driven by some of those same hidden agencies.
    • The danger can't be overstated. Act 1 was Covid-19, which now barely matters. Act 2 is the riots and protests from people who feel their votes and voices have never meant a thing. This is not about George Floyd, or even about racism or the police. That was just the spark in the piled-high tinderbox.
    • After the lockdowns, the unemployment, the loss of income, the manipulation from every authority, and maybe the start of another great depression, this is the perfect storm. It's a huge coiled spring coming right out of its box. Using force to try to stop that will just cause the box to explode. But palliative words may not work, either.
    • The human race is very sick, laden with toxins and pathogens accumulated over hundreds of years. What we're seeing could be the start of the cytokine storm, very dangerous for the patient.
    • Act 3 might be anything one might imagine in any movie.
    • Only spiritual actions have a chance of turning this around. Nothing else.


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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Deleted .......
    Last edited by pacificator; 2nd June 2020 at 16:14.
    Love with no fear

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Am I wrong to say (think):

    "All bystanders police AND (other) people could have used their instincts/intuition to intervene somehow ... but might have chosen the path of fear or willful apathy!"

    Am not claiming it is easy ... nor that it is "obvious what to do or not".
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 2nd June 2020 at 15:57.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by pacificator (here)
    What about greed..
    #1 Jeff Bezos $113 billions
    #2 Bill Gate $98 Billions
    the fist 2 = $211 billions
    7.8 billions earth population..

    Theses 2 could give 5 millions each person of the world
    for a total of $39 billions..
    still left > $172 billions for them.

    Imagine now, people will start to live better, afford housing and invest in a better world.. I would think.

    Just the first 2 billionaire could do it. for then it's pennies..

    Mod note from Bill:

    Actually — sadly! — you're out by a factor of a million. $39 billion divided between 7.8 billion people is just $5 each.

    If everyone had 5 million dollars, 5 million dollars would not be worth as much as it is right now.
    If everyone was made a millionaire overnight, nearly no one would bother going to work and the food chain would collapse.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    An hour ago I wrote a 1,000 word post, all about the Fourth Turning and the global loss of trust in authority.

    And also the loss of trust in just about everything else, including science, information of every kind, any government propaganda, and even in one another.

    I saved it as a draft. I'm not ready to post that yet. But here's the briefest summary:
    • No-one out there knows what to do. No leader anywhere on the planet has the experience or wisdom to deal with any of this. There's a lot of virtue signaling, a lot of righteous words, and a lot of muscle flexing. None of it is likely to help.
    • Dark agendas of every kind will capitalize on the chaos. That chaos has already been driven by some of those same hidden agencies.
    • The danger can't be overstated. Act 1 was Covid-19, which now barely matters. Act 2 is the riots and protests from people who feel their votes and voices have never meant a thing. This is not about George Floyd, or even about racism or the police. That was just the spark in the piled-high tinderbox.
    • After the lockdowns, the unemployment, the loss of income, the manipulation from every authority, and maybe the start of another great depression, this is the perfect storm. It's a huge coiled spring coming right out of its box. Using force to try to stop that will just cause the box to explode. But palliative words may not work, either.
    • The human race is very sick, laden with toxins and pathogens accumulated over hundreds of years. What we're seeing could be the start of the cytokine storm, very dangerous for the patient.
    • Act 3 might be anything one might imagine in any movie.
    • Only spiritual actions have a chance of turning this around. Nothing else.


    Bill, this is an excellent synopsis as always. I can't help but sense you have serious concerns about humanity's capacity to overcome what is present and ahead; if I'm right, I too have such concerns.

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