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Thread: The possible end of Above Top Secret

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Posted yesterday:
    ~~~
    It's time to face the harsh reality. This website is quickly approaching a difficult situation. Here are the facts:

    For independent sites like ATS, advertising revenue has been dropping across the entire Internet for the past five years. Combined with the recent significant drop in advertising due to the economic fallout of the pandemic, and it's horrible.

    The number of visitors blocking what meager revenue is available on ATS continues to climb. We're well above the broader Internet average at more than two-thirds of all visitors blocking ads and other analytics tags.

    The blocking of the analytics tags artificially deflates our actual traffic and visitor statistics. Making it impossible to attract a higher-quality ad supplier. Compound that with the reality that the current political climate has made many of our freely-expressed topics "toxic," and it's double horrible. (For example, Google AdSense is not an option for us.)

    There are only two options:
    1. Find a suitable buyer with the resources to invest in growth.
    2. Slowly fade away until revenue can't support hosting.
    We don't say this lightly ó especially me, who has devoted 12+ years to this endeavor.

    I can imagine the long list of ideas our members will suggest. I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm. It's why I did this. However, they would all require time and resources that we don't have.

    The best hope for this project's longevity in free expression is for someone with resources to pick up the torch and carry it where we currently cannot. A new torchbearer would be critically important in these times where "free expression" is under attack.

    Some contextual history:

    We've entertained acquisition deals from a few suitable entities over the past several months. The most recent company was a near-perfect fit. But they are also suddenly facing an uncertain financial future due to the gutting of the online advertising markets.

    We cannot find a business broker specializing in websites that are willing to represent a 100% ad revenue model to their buyers (for now).

    Marketplaces and auctions such as Flippa are problematic. First, for success, an upfront investment that we don't have is required. Second, confirming the intent and principles of a potential buyer is near-impossible.

    What Comes Next

    Soon, we will make some type of "this website for sale" indication. From there, we'll see what interest we get. Please trust me in that we will have high standards for any new owner.

    The website will continue to run. In the event we begin seriously fading away, there will be a fair warning.

    With a heavy heart, thank you for your participation. It's my sincere hope that a new "torchbearer" will come forward, and you all will continue your efforts unabated.

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    UK Avalon Member pigsy2400's Avatar
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    I have been a long time contributor to ATS and made many friends there too, many of which I have met in real life and also been friends with nearly two decades. I have participated in some great research projects with people from ATS. I don't want to turn this into a ATS bashing post; but to speak from experience.

    The place did always have an odd undertone, there were subjects that were off limits, threads would get trolled and spammed just as various interesting points were raised that probably made a few select individuals "uncomfortable". Threads or posts that would be deleted if they didnt conform with the beliefs of the mods or indeed the owners of the site.

    Any mention of the owner of Skinwalker Ranch specifically, would see whole parts of the website and threads disappear, it was sometimes a rush to archive things on the Wayback Machine knowing full well, that soon some posts would vanish entirely. Then low and behold, the owner of ATS ends up in a "documentary" about SWR; Deny Ignorance indeed. As well as the long standing rumors of the place being a COINTELPRO operation, with IP addresses traced back to Langley, links to CIA and other things - I never really knew what to make of those rumors.

    I am known on ATS as "pigsy2400" - at one time I wouldn't have been comfortable in stating that, for reasons I will speak of at a later date - also it is not lost on me either, that no-one here will have heard of the "Infamous Pigsy" anyway lol.

    ATS and the reasons for its impending demise, I can only speculate as a long term user; Investment was very little in ATS - it's not been in doubt that its "golden age" in terms of hits, visitors and subsequent Ad-Revenue is long gone. As a user from 2004 and before that; the monies it undoubtedly raised in its heyday were simply not reinvested into the platform. This post may still sound like I am bashing ATS - I will be sad overall to see it go; but only for the people that I connected with there and I don't need ATS to speak with them.
    Last edited by pigsy2400; 18th June 2020 at 16:34.

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    UK Avalon Member pigsy2400's Avatar
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    I will be monitoring the thread in question & posting any updates here on any relevant questions / answers that are posted;

    Answers to questions posed by users from "SkepticOverlord";

    Timeframe?
    "Potentially months. However, I don't see us lasting the year under the current circumstances."

    Go Paid Members?
    "First, that would require infrastructure and new code investment we cannot afford. Second, the paid subscription model remains unproven, and would require hundreds of monthly subscribers to sustain an active business that could support operations."

    Current Operating Costs?
    Right now, no one is getting any profit payments, so it's cheap.

    But to revive it as a business would require a sustained revenue model to fund infrastructure and code base improvements -- even before we look to alternative revenue methods. In order to afford the necessary expenditures, which would be months-long, we'd need a minimum of $25,000/month. That's not suddenly happening with donations or subscriptions.

    Cloud Data Storage Costs?
    consider the cloud datastore costs for this: our entire content database instance is over 50GB, with an average of 56 queries a second... with more than 3TB of supporting (images) files. What would that cost on AWS?

    Has it become more political / right wing focused?
    There has been a seismic paradigm shift among conspiracy-minded people.

    In the 20 years I've been a member/moderator/management of this site, along with prior "paying attention" back to the Ford administration, one thing has been consistent: As a group, Conspiracy Theorists always lean in the opposite political direction from whoever is in the White House,Until Trump, I find that odd.

    Reply to Suggestions by members to save ATS;
    For all those members making suggestions about subscriptions, donations, lack of tech upgrades, etc. You missed one important missing asset on our end: time.
    Pool your resources, make an offer, and become member-run.


    Tell people not to block ATS ads?
    We did that, almost 3 years ago.
    For people using ad blockers, we injected alternate images into the space where an ad would go. The images contained the message to stop using ad blockers. Membership freaked out. It was one of the most wide-spread drama episodes in the history of the site. Aggressive entitlement was rampant.

    Will all historic content on the site vanish?
    If a buyer is not found, and revenue cannot support hosting costs. Yes.
    I thought it was self-evident.

    I will update further with anything that develops with this story...

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    I've seen the Ads business sinking since 2013, with the majority of Browser blocking it via plugins or by default like Brave, I can't see how a website owner can profit depending solely on Ads. The goose that laid the golden eggs gonna forever!
    By the way, that's why websites like Alex Jones and Health Ranger push their products, and publishers can contact them and pay to get their Ads in their websites/podcast/videos.
    Youtube lately (I noticed 2 weeks ago) is pushing ads between 40 and 60 seconds (sometimes 2 or 3 in a row), forcing users to stay on page if they really want to see the content of the video, AdBlock plugins and Brave are not able to block it, my youtube downloader script is having a bad time now!
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by Daedalus (here)

    Will all historic content on the site vanish?
    If a buyer is not found, and revenue cannot support hosting costs. Yes.
    I thought it was self-evident.
    That's an interesting answer. It'd be dead easy to close it to any further posts or content, remove all the ads, and make it all searchable but read-only. That'd probably cost less than $2,000 a year to host, small change for the current owners.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Daedalus (here)

    Will all historic content on the site vanish?
    If a buyer is not found, and revenue cannot support hosting costs. Yes.
    I thought it was self-evident.
    That's an interesting answer. It'd be dead easy to close it to any further posts or content, remove all the ads, and make it all searchable but read-only. That'd probably cost less than $2,000 a year to host, small change for the current owners.
    And it can be MUCH lower. I pay for virtual server hosting for my cloud server a bit over 30 bucks a year (provided someone does the maintenance voluntarily). Web hosting is even cheaper nowadays.
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
    -- Benjamin Disraeli

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    I posted on it that I wouldnít give a cent, because itís not the site it used to be (meaning paranormal, mysteries etc) thatís it mostly all political now and by that I mean trump a$$ suckers.... I canít stand that ĎITí and no I wonít even call him a Ďbeingí because itís an insult to beings to do so....I know many on here love the IT and for the love of me I have no idea why ( and no please donít waste your time telling me) and every time anyone would dare saying anything against the IT they would all jump down your throat about it...and I am not American and have no skin in the game so no I am not a democratic.....if it would go back to how it used to be maybe Iíd care, but what I say now is let it fade. Iím Rumrunner over there.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    So many closures and possible closures across the board. It's been a crazy ride with numerous threats in the making for a crazier one (if that is even possible).

    Glimmers of hope broadcast in the media are followed by crushing hurdles to get through 'first'. It's all quite insane and yet leaders and broadcasters act like it's just another news day in the boardroom. Discussions like: How do we build our brand? What manipulation techniques do we use to grab a larger market share?

    How big a tidal wave is this?



    I do see the sun but the news clouds of MSM 'reality' are a persistent bunch.


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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    The internet was a lot better when its content was generated by hobbyists volunteering their time and money. Maybe it will go back to that.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    The internet was a lot better when its content was generated by hobbyists volunteering their time and money. Maybe it will go back to that.
    Far and away better! PA and sites like it are what I envisioned the internet remaining as back in the day. I remember the days of hyperlinks mostly at the end of pages and the fresh approach to ideas and knowledge on each page like I had never seen before (I used to spend hours researching in public libraries before that). It was magical in the beginning with the mind lit up with possibility.

    Now except for few oasis's its an utter wasteland. Like having 150 TV channels with only a select few worth the space to call a channel. (MSM is the ILLUSION of choice)

    Just think, few young people have ever known what the Net was in the beginning.

    "Maybe it will go back to that"... I appreciate the optimism.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    The internet was a lot better when its content was generated by hobbyists volunteering their time and money. Maybe it will go back to that.
    Far and away better! PA and sites like it are what I envisioned the internet remaining as back in the day. I remember the days of hyperlinks mostly at the end of pages and the fresh approach to ideas and knowledge on each page like I had never seen before (I used to spend hours researching in public libraries before that). It was magical in the beginning with the mind lit up with possibility.

    Now except for few oasis's its an utter wasteland. Like having 150 TV channels with only a select few worth the space to call a channel. (MSM is the ILLUSION of choice)

    Just think, few young people have ever known what the Net was in the beginning.

    "Maybe it will go back to that"... I appreciate the optimism.
    The loss of all the ATF posted research if the the threads are not archived is big IMO. Is that the plan?

    I was thrilled when the internet became available. What is happening is maybe what was intended. We just won't have access to objective info. We will truly be mushroomed.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Maybe we should merge PA with ATS! 😛
    Seriously though I donít even understand how people can function on ATS with all the world class trolling there. Iím glad that here on PA go we with quality over quantity.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    The internet was a lot better when its content was generated by hobbyists volunteering their time and money. Maybe it will go back to that.
    Far and away better! PA and sites like it are what I envisioned the internet remaining as back in the day. I remember the days of hyperlinks mostly at the end of pages and the fresh approach to ideas and knowledge on each page like I had never seen before (I used to spend hours researching in public libraries before that). It was magical in the beginning with the mind lit up with possibility.

    Now except for few oasis's its an utter wasteland. Like having 150 TV channels with only a select few worth the space to call a channel. (MSM is the ILLUSION of choice)

    Just think, few young people have ever known what the Net was in the beginning.

    "Maybe it will go back to that"... I appreciate the optimism.
    I resonate deeply with this.

    I am 36. I fell in love with computers when I was just 4 or 5 watching my brother on his Commodore 64. When I had just turned 13, my parents got an IBM computer and internet access. My life completely changed. I got into web design and 3D design and the rest is history. That's what I still do now.

    But the hopefulness of the internet of yesterday... it's just sad to think about now after seeing what's happened to it.

    My generation is the last to have grown up without the internet and I've always cherished that because I can clearly remember the world before the internet and the early days of the internet and into now. I've seen the entire evolution.

    Aaron Swartz was a great voice, and he died 7 years ago. It's not mentioned enough, but the essence of his warrior spirit seems to have died, too.

    Where are all of the voices? That's my biggest concern.

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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by vizon (here)
    Quote Posted by O Donna (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    The internet was a lot better when its content was generated by hobbyists volunteering their time and money. Maybe it will go back to that.
    Far and away better! PA and sites like it are what I envisioned the internet remaining as back in the day. I remember the days of hyperlinks mostly at the end of pages and the fresh approach to ideas and knowledge on each page like I had never seen before (I used to spend hours researching in public libraries before that). It was magical in the beginning with the mind lit up with possibility.

    Now except for few oasis's its an utter wasteland. Like having 150 TV channels with only a select few worth the space to call a channel. (MSM is the ILLUSION of choice)

    Just think, few young people have ever known what the Net was in the beginning.

    "Maybe it will go back to that"... I appreciate the optimism.
    I resonate deeply with this.

    I am 36. I fell in love with computers when I was just 4 or 5 watching my brother on his Commodore 64. When I had just turned 13, my parents got an IBM computer and internet access. My life completely changed. I got into web design and 3D design and the rest is history. That's what I still do now.

    But the hopefulness of the internet of yesterday... it's just sad to think about now after seeing what's happened to it.

    My generation is the last to have grown up without the internet and I've always cherished that because I can clearly remember the world before the internet and the early days of the internet and into now. I've seen the entire evolution.

    Aaron Swartz was a great voice, and he died 7 years ago. It's not mentioned enough, but the essence of his warrior spirit seems to have died, too.

    Where are all of the voices? That's my biggest concern.
    They are not in the surface, I can guarantee that for you.


    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    I was thrilled when the internet became available. What is happening is maybe what was intended. We just won't have access to objective info. We will truly be mushroomed.
    I have been using the Usenet (paid service, the free ones are bad), IRC, P2P, XMPP (Jabber) for the last 20 years for communication and data, and it didn't change much, the "old internet spirit" still pretty much alive, people just need to seek in the right place, the good information still there, but it may not be free available like before. I could perfectly delete my browser and I still be able to communicate, read websites like PA using web feeds like I did before registering an account here, download data (torrent, usenet, wget, ..), make/receive payments and lots of others stuffs.

    A lot of people out there and I mean a lot, have no idea how to properly use a computer (the majority nowadays has only a smartphone), they know what a browser is, when they search they go straight to google, social media and that's all they know about internet.

    Internet is culture, Operating Systems are culture, Programming is culture and like any culture once born, it changes, evolve and with time it dies and fade away like everything else in life and something new comes up. Sometimes it takes generations to accept a new paradigms (it is also called resistance) until it goes away again, it is a never ending cycle.

    p.s. As far we are able to plug a server to the internet, all this old techies will remain pretty much alive.

    Have a nice day folks.
    Last edited by palehorse; 19th June 2020 at 05:40. Reason: added the right quote
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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  28. Link to Post #15
    Indonesia Avalon Member
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    I must be super late to the conversation and only just discovered ATS from this thread - however, on a test search - Not much in ATS on HCQ developments.... which would be the truth serum injected into the Plandemicís demise and undesired end to Billy Goatsí scam. How do we even keep our sights on target there when there are no targets to begin with? I find it a redundant forum filled with side show distractions like the recent racial stuff. Iíd be in the minority group, and i dont find this even an issue. Keep our focus on Billy Goats the 3rd!

    Believe me, this is more important than anything else, as it affects the whole world, not just the pockets in the US.
    Last edited by spade; 19th June 2020 at 06:49.

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Well ifÖATS is a CIA run counter intelligence tool and the CIA is deeply infiltrated by the deep state and if media sites like Google, face book twitter, utube are being censored, shadow banning or removing content for those supporting the take down of the deep state and ifÖATS was revealing how much support is out there for Trump thenÖ well itís toast.

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  32. Link to Post #17
    UK Avalon Member pigsy2400's Avatar
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    More Q&A

    Bill stated this in response to my last post;
    "That's an interesting answer. It'd be dead easy to close it to any further posts or content, remove all the ads, and make it all searchable but read-only. That'd probably cost less than $2,000 a year to host, small change for the current owners."

    So i made this statement;
    If no buyer is found, they could conceivably just remove off all forum features and have the site as a purely "read only" archive for research purposes.The hosting cost would be minimal..
    Only marginally less. The majority of "hits" on the site are non-human automated bots/spiders. Those would keep hitting pages.


    But theres really no way that a move to AWS should cost anywhere near the numbers you've been given?
    It's not so "easy." There's a great deal of "bare-metal" specific code developed over the years. Many things, like the flash-based image uploading need to be completely recoded.


    I do wonder if a option might be to migrate ATS over to a new site that is just a basic web forum that can be run much cheaper.
    There are not many ways to inexpensively run a site with our legacy technical debt of a very large/active database, and supporting image content.

    but $25k per month is quite a bit for something like this.
    That figure was offered as the ball-park for total expenses: hosting, upgrades, etc.

    A bit more than a year ago, I got a "friends and family" quote from trusted and talented developers that it might take 3-4 months and $15k-$20k a month to make everything ready for efficient hosting on a cloud platform like AWS.
    $25k was my average sum... stuff always takes longer... it always costs more


    Statement by a user that the current owners seem very warm to doing;
    "Sooo....how about this for an option. If SO wants to sell...maybe a committee of people who are fully committed to picking up this site and turning into something should form an LLC or S Corp and set up a contract to buy the boys out?? Then we can make all the upgrades, changes, and reinvigorate the site."


    is there and absolute drop dead number you need right now to keep things going and update the site?
    No. As previously stated, no one is able to devote the time.

    What's the price ATS is selling for?
    We're not going to discuss that in public. Email admin -at- theabovenetwork -dot- com to engage in a discussion.


    Do you think Google targeted ATS?
    We fought with Google several times. First in 2013 when we were delisted from their ad platform (AdSense) for controversial content. It took six months and some internal connections to get our account back into good standing. There were clear indications it was one of those fabled "human interventions" on their end. Google "delisted" more than 1 million of our pages.

    Then, through 2015 we'd receive daily notices that URLs (entire threads really) were being delisted from the ad platform. For a time, just about all of them were threads critical of Hillary Clinton. I don't think "ATS is targeted," but I do think the majority of the topics discussed here are indeed targeted. In short, we're toxic.


    But is SO et all even paying attention?
    As much as I can. It's hard. I've not received any type of income from ATS all of this year, and for the three years prior, any income has been significantly reduced and spotty as revenue kept dropping. I had no choice but to find alternatives. It was extremely difficult. However, I still monitor the server/backups/logs on a nearly daily basis. I just don't have the time to participate. In face, I really don't have the time to do this!


    Statement in relation to Sale to Users and background on those currently running ATS; Background first: There are at least two behind the scenes efforts for like-minded entities to bear the torch. No way to give progress yet. IF a coalition of members and interested parties are actively creating a legal entity and raising funds to purchase and take over ATS, we will do our best to "keep the lights on" while that is happening. But it must not be ad-hoc. Above board. Legal. But please respect and appreciate the following: the lives of myself, Springer and Simon have changed such that our commitments preclude us from returning to focus on ATS. I've stated this over and over. Please respect it.


    In regards to another thread discussing other similar forums that have met similar fates;
    Was it not seen? Is it being intentionally ignored? What?

    Answer
    Not seen. This is a rapidly evolving thread... I have other time-consuming commitments.
    Your proposal is 85% reasonable, and not far off what other members have been suggesting. But it appears overly complicated.

    My suggestion...

    1- create a 2-4 person group that has experience in business and legal matters
    2- create a legal fact-finding entity
    3- engage me, we'll exchange appropriate mutual NDA documents
    4- you can learn additional realities and details of prior offers
    5- decide if raising money is a viable business decision
    6- if raising money is a decision of passion and love, I'll help you keep your eyes wide open
    7- if the torch is passed, then most of what you posted comes into play


    I'm beginning to think there is no real appetite in preserving the ATS culture and philosophy by ATS ownership,
    See my reply above.
    I can't see every post.


    It costs $30k a month to run this site?
    That's not correct. $25k a month was ballpark operating costs for 3-4 months to upgrade/transition the code for a new cloud infrastructure. The hard transition costs (new server, tech support, overlap, etc.) when I upgraded everything back in 2015 was close to $20k. We're new on a monster 16-core bare-metal server with two RAID arrays, one is an SSD array for the database. Specing and deploying that -- with the outside support needed -- was not cheap.


    Not true if browsing the site from the phone, Ive had to shut down the browser many a time due to malicious ad content here.
    Who is your service provider? It's widely known -- and we've proven it -- that mobile service providers are injecting their own ads into mobile web browsing. It's one reason why I simply don't use my phone for web browsing anymore.
    Last edited by pigsy2400; 23rd June 2020 at 16:38.

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  34. Link to Post #18
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    It would be a great shame if ATS vanished into the mists of time.

    There are some fantastic threads and second-to-none research there, especially in the UFO forum, from members such as Isaac Koi, Mirageman, William One Sac, Gazrok, Mike Singh, Schuyler, Zorgon and of course our very own Pigsy2400. These are just some of the names that have stuck with me over the years of creators of threads that have led me down many a rabbit hole. I lurked that site for more than 10 years..... Never had the balls to join until fairly recently!

    The emergence of John Titor, the CARAT drones and ASTRO have to be my top 3 of ATS's greatest-of-all-time threads.

    Like life itself, ATS can be a cruel place to navigate, but if you ignore the more 'vocal' subjects and members, the breadth and depth of subject matter and research is outstanding, there really is something for everyone. It'll be a great loss to the community as a whole if the lights well and truly go out, and a warning bell to sites such as this, Project Avalon, as places on the internet where truly free speech is not only allowed, but encouraged, are few and far between.

    I know these are tough times for everyone, but if you are in any sort of position to help the ATS members who are looking to save the site in any way, I would strongly encourage you to do so.......... You never know when you may need help yourself.


    First they came for the Alex Jones & Infowars, and I did not speak out ó
    Because I was not a member.

    Then they came for the Brian Rose & London Real, and I did not speak out ó
    Because I was not a member.

    Then they came for ATS, and I did not speak out ó
    Because I was not a member.

    Then they came for Project Avalon......... And there was no one left to speak for me.
    Last edited by The Moss Trooper; 23rd June 2020 at 20:03.

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  36. Link to Post #19
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by The Moss Trooper (here)
    Then they came for ATS, and I did not speak out ó
    Because I was not a member.

    Then they came for Project Avalon......... And there was no one left to speak for me.
    Well, not really! ATS is closing down (or looks like it will be) just because they're not making enough money. No-one's "coming for them"!

    It was always a commercial enterprise from the start. There's little or nothing altruistic about those guys, and never has been.

    In contrast, Avalon is rather different. We don't make any money at all (we don't even try to! ), and have no relationship with any of the totalitarian tech giants. We're dependent on no-one except you, the members, and actually have very few points of vulnerability at all.

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The possible end of Above Top Secret

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    In contrast, Avalon is rather different. We don't make any money at all (we don't even try to! ), and have no relationship with any of the totalitarian tech giants. We're dependent on no-one except you, the members, and actually have very few points of vulnerability at all.
    Good time to add a donation reminder.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Folks, Hi:
    [Bill continues ...]

    This post is primarily for our newer members of the community, who may not know this thread exists.

    We're delighted you're here, and I hope you feel that way too. As you've seen, there's no advertising here of any kind, the entire thing is subscription-free, and you now have access to an immense library of searchable information, and the opportunity to participate and add to that as much as you wish.

    In various ways, it all costs quite a lot to maintain.

    We do need your voluntary financial support. A few of you have already made a donation on joining, and we very much appreciate that. (And there are other longstanding members reading this who regularly donate: we SO much appreciate that. )

    Even small amounts help. If every active member donated just $1 a month, the effect would be significant. $5 a month, and it's transformational.

    Please think about it. My own commitment is to continue to make the Forum freely available to everyone, including our MANY regular guests and visitors.

    Thanks for all your contributions, in every way. Those who've already made donations, thank you again, and you know who you are. It all counts.

    PayPal address: donation@projectavalon.net. To set up a recurring donation, large or small, please use the orange HOW TO DONATE button at the top right of this page.

    Thank you.



    I'll (RunningDeer) add one more direct link - Thank you for your donation.
    The donation link is also found at the top, right of every page. Thanks, Everyone.



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