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Thread: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Whatever it is. GET OVER IT.
    So if you need a blood transfusion are you going to enquire where the blood comes from?

    David Icke said "Forget your black"

    My wife Rosaline --whom Im separated from is Black. ( the love still there) A Cameroonian.
    Sometimes I think she took any work slight criticism as racist, I thought the criticism was work related and tactfully put.
    Probably it would have been less tactful if she had been white.

    Having had the joy of being married three times I can honestly say-- A woman is a woman, regardless of colour.
    One Scottish--one Irish and one African.
    All feminine in nature.

    All are of the one Divine energy -- just individual reflections of THAT.
    David Icke keeps hammering this home and people possibly dont hear that part of his talks.
    Only love is real the rest an illusion. He says that.

    So basically the only way forward is forget the colour of your skin-- forget identification with the story of "me" -- the concepts the labels and enjoy the unique consciousness that we all are and discover what you truly are beyond name and form.
    Every spiritual teacher, Jesus, The Buddha, Shiva, all saying the same thing. You are the One. Just different ways of saying it.
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 20th June 2020 at 10:30.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    So basically the only way forward is forget the colour of your skin-- forget identification with the story of "me" -- the concepts the labels and enjoy the unique consciousness that we all are and discover what you truly are beyond name and form.
    Every spiritual teacher, Jesus, The Buddha, Shiva, all saying the same thing. You are the One. Just different ways of saying it.
    Chris

    The teachers are of course correct, we are "IT" as Alan Watts would put it. All things being equal this is the way to go; but, if there's something about you, something you can't control, and because of that something you get treated differently than others, it's got to be kind of hard to forget about it.

    Like what the pigs who control the government in the novel "Animal Farm" say:
    Quote All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
    Now the rest of the animals on Orwell's metaphoric farm can go around all day long telling themselves that things are equal, that it doesn't matter they're not one of the pigs, but they'd be fooling themselves.

    Maybe it doesn't matter once they all shed they're 3D bodies, but it does matter here on the farm...

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Unfortunately being able to forget skin color is not a priviledge every body has. If people eye you suspiciously when you walk into a store, if police stop you on your bike because they think you might be a drug dealer, if everytime you put on an bandaide it doesn't match....there are so many ways people of color get reminded everyday of their skin color. That is the problem.
    Of course the answer is love... but there is something disturbing to me when we meet injustice with.... get over it....find enlightenment...everything is an illusion.... so no real problem....

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    So basically the only way forward is forget the colour of your skin-- forget identification with the story of "me" -- the concepts the labels and enjoy the unique consciousness that we all are and discover what you truly are beyond name and form.
    Every spiritual teacher, Jesus, The Buddha, Shiva, all saying the same thing. You are the One. Just different ways of saying it.
    Chris

    The teachers are of course correct, we are "IT" as Alan Watts would put it. All things being equal this is the way to go; but, if there's something about you, something you can't control, and because of that something you get treated differently than others, it's got to be kind of hard to forget about it.

    Like what the pigs who control the government in the novel "Animal Farm" say:
    Quote All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
    Now the rest of the animals on Orwell's metaphoric farm can go around all day long telling themselves that things are equal, that it doesn't matter they're not one of the pigs, but they'd be fooling themselves.

    Maybe it doesn't matter once they all shed they're 3D bodies, but it does matter here on the farm...
    The thought that it matters is just a thought.

    It takes time but through letting go of racism thoughts and all divisive thoughts every time they crop up a profound change will happen.

    I dont have these thoughts now -- that does not mean I like every one, or that I condone anything.
    I just accept people as they are.

    Those that want to reduce the population can probably give a logical answers as to why they are right to use any means to achieve this and will attract like minded people.

    The thing is to free of all wanting to identify with and belong to any group -- be free to be yourself.

    As the saying goes "You can do it"
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote I wasn't going to mention it but as you bring up the 84% compared to 93%, that basically means more black people are attacking white people than white people attacking black. Some of those attacks of blacks on whites will be racist attacks for instance they may have been incited by Marxists hell bent on race war who have been feeding the white privilege narrative. The majority of the killings though will just be down to circumstance with no race bases as with the white attacks on blacks, although on rare occasions they will happen
    What an absolute load of bull****.

    This is exactly why people here think you skirt the borders of racism. It's this kind of ignorance.

    You're not a stupid person. You're not a bad person. No one here is trying to cancel anyone. But that was a stupid, bad thing to say, and I know you can do better, be better.

    That 9% difference can be accounted for by one simple thing: poverty. And all the fun that it brings, like clockwork, in every place, ever, in the world. Broken homes. Substance abuse.

    High crime rates.

    The reason why there is black-on-black violence is because there is a much higher rate of poverty per capita in black people than there are in white people. Period.

    So maybe, ask yourself, how is that the case?

    And maybe then you will begin to understand why there's a BLM movement.

    I know I'm borderline rude here, but seriously, I know you're better than this. It's why I'm pissed. You have been very lucid in the past. This is why your current opacity is so astounding. Where is this coming from?
    Please refrain from from the personal insults, ignorance in the dictionary means
    lack of knowledge or information.

    All I have done here is present relevant and important information in order find more clarity on the situation. Your insistance on denying its relevance is ignorant.

    I have actually withheld many relevant stats and information but if I presented them there would be a meltdown.

    Do you really think I want to be the guy that presents these relevant stats, I know how people react especially in this climate. I honestly believe that when making a judgement on the current situation we need to present all sides. Thats why a court of law has a defence.

    As for you skirting around calling me a racist, again how f*cking dare you. I could tell lots of stories about my great black friends and ex girlfriends,We have helped each other out of many a pickle.Ive sent most my life as a foreigner and outsider so I know it can be challenging,but I can assure you Europe and the USA has nothing on the racism experienced in much of the rest of the world.


    and you are actually agreeing with what I said

    I said most of the cases of attack were not to do with racisism they are to do with circumstance. Poverty is one of those circumstances that some black people find themselves in, but not exclusively so. It is just as challenging in the trailer parks as it is in the projects.

    SO perhaps we can have a debate about wealth and class and not about race
    Last edited by Dorjezigzag; 20th June 2020 at 13:11.
    “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” (Carl Jung)

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Unfortunately being able to forget skin color is not a priviledge every body has. If people eye you suspiciously when you walk into a store, if police stop you on your bike because they think you might be a drug dealer, if everytime you put on an bandaide it doesn't match....there are so many ways people of color get reminded everyday of their skin color. That is the problem.
    Of course the answer is love... but there is something disturbing to me when we meet injustice with.... get over it....find enlightenment...everything is an illusion.... so no real problem....
    I did not say there is no real problem.
    Its not a privilege I had to work on my attitude.

    The problem is people keep perpetuating the problem through seeing differences.

    I have experienced extreme prejudice being the only baptised Catholic in the whole protestant school.
    Everyone has there own cross to bear.
    There are those making political points through all this with no concern what soever for the colour of a persons skin.

    David Icke most recent talk covers this very well.
    I would suggest watching it

    I dont notice another person skin colour -- is it that difficult?
    It starts with the individual and eventually the many will have no predudice..
    Dont care about the many its down to the "you"


    However everything under the sun except spirituality has been tried and failed.
    Spirituality believes in stepping back and letting right action flow through.
    Gandhi being a case in point -- that worked.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    I wonder what it was like in Nazi Germany when any one with Jewish ancestry had to wear a star of David on their lapel...

    which made me think what does ADL think of BLM:

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs...rategic-threat

    this movement does have its silver lining

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    First, BLM is an AMERICAN movement that was intended to address system injustices in AMERICA. That is the point. There are many people on this board that are not Americans, and of course your input and views are not only welcome, they are important. But do not assume that what it is like in other countries is how it is in the US. That is as arrogant as Americans assuming they know all about the things that go on in your country. Please keep in mind that how it works in your country is most likely not the same as how it is here.

    Now, to tell someone in America to "forget they're black" is DANGEROUS. If a black person in America forgets their black, if they act the same as white people, they could end up dead.

    It really is that simple. And if you live in America and have not grasped that, then you have spent too much time in a bubble. There may be pockets of places where that's not the case, but that's all you're going to find: small pockets scattered against a huge problem that engulfs the whole country.

    And that right there is the whole crux of the BLM and the point of this thread. All these other statistics anyone wants to throw out don't really matter. There are, after all, lies, d@mn lies, and statistics. Each "side" will be able to produce their own statistics. If you haven't spent some time talking and listening--actually conversing--with blacks here in America, you really don't have much room to talk.

    BLM was started on social media. It's a simple phrase that's easily shared. Living in America as a black can get you killed... for no other reason than being black. It was intended as a rallying cry, not a divisive one. It was--and for most actual people, is--intended as a starting point to address systemic changes.

    This forum, of all places, should really understand that danger. Not to us! But to the TPTB. They will never allow the people to rally against injustice. They will fight it tooth and nail. And how do they fight it? By pitting people against people. And so the left side takes things further than it was ever actually intended to go and the right responds by slamming the door against the whole thing.

    And those of you that are so intent of slamming the door against BLM are just helping them along. Acknowledging the systemic problems that blacks face in America is the starting point. We should be discussing how to keep a genuine effort at addressing the injustices shoved on us by TPTB from being hijacked. We should be discussing what to do now that TPTB have obviously sent in their goons on both sides.

    Let me say this again, TPTB are trying to keep us fighting each other by sending in their goons to stoke both sides and keep the focus off the real problem. And many of you are falling for their diversionary tactics. What do we do about that?

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Unfortunately being able to forget skin color is not a priviledge every body has. If people eye you suspiciously when you walk into a store, if police stop you on your bike because they think you might be a drug dealer, if everytime you put on an bandaide it doesn't match....there are so many ways people of color get reminded everyday of their skin color. That is the problem.
    Of course the answer is love... but there is something disturbing to me when we meet injustice with.... get over it....find enlightenment...everything is an illusion.... so no real problem....
    All my black friends are proud and feel privileged of their skin colour and so they should be. Someone wants to judge you for that, that is their problem and if they get too out of hand there are laws in place.

    I can honestly say I take people as I find them, skin colour is immaterial, its what inside that counts
    “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” (Carl Jung)

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Unfortunately being able to forget skin color is not a priviledge every body has. If people eye you suspiciously when you walk into a store, if police stop you on your bike because they think you might be a drug dealer, if everytime you put on an bandaide it doesn't match....there are so many ways people of color get reminded everyday of their skin color. That is the problem.
    Of course the answer is love... but there is something disturbing to me when we meet injustice with.... get over it....find enlightenment...everything is an illusion.... so no real problem....
    All my black friends are proud and feel privileged of their skin colour and so they should be. Someone wants to judge you for that, that is their problem and if they get too out of hand there are laws in place.

    I can honestly say I take people as I find them, skin colour is immaterial, its what inside that counts
    That does not work in America. Being proud of your skin color or how your were born is one thing. Understanding that because of it, you are held to different standards is something else.

    Getting judged is bad enough. Getting killed is something else.

    This isn't about how YOU treat people! YOU are a decent a person.

    This is about how the system is stacked against a certain skin color, or perhaps in favor of another. Those laws you speak of are only tools. When the system is corrupt, those laws will be used against you.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    First, BLM is an AMERICAN movement that was intended to address system injustices in AMERICA. That is the point. There are many people on this board that are not Americans, and of course your input and views are not only welcome, they are important. But do not assume that what it is like in other countries is how it is in the US. That is as arrogant as Americans assuming they know all about the things that go on in your country. Please keep in mind that how it works in your country is most likely not the same as how it is here.

    Now, to tell someone in America to "forget they're black" is DANGEROUS. If a black person in America forgets their black, if they act the same as white people, they could end up dead.
    Seems to me there are varying altitudes in which to view things. The most common view we generally try and take is the one from airline cruising altitude, in order to try and see more of the whole and complete picture.

    That’s all fine and dandy, and I try to use that long view myself most of the time, but what if I need a crop duster? The view from cruising altitude is still useful to survey matters, but it can’t help you out with the bugs on your crops problem.

    Yes, this sort of thing has happened all around the world at varying times, but in this time, in this particular instance, the problem is uniquely American.

    Are people in other countries protesting by the thousands because they too have the same problem? No, I don’t think so, I think what they’re doing is standing in solidarity with their black American brothers and sisters. They’re looking at what’s going on here, what’s been going on here, and they don’t like it one single bit.

    Right here, right now, it’s American black lives that matter. Yes there’s a bigger picture, but this particular part of the whole is demanding to be addressed.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    And so the cancel culture creeps in. No ones' opinion matters, except blacks in America who agree with the sentiment and virtue signalers and sympathizers of all colors but white who can shut up and stand at the rear, the rest of the blacks are just Trump supporters and racist themselves.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    And so the cancel culture creeps in. No ones' opinion matters, except blacks in America who agree with the sentiment and virtue signalers and sympathizers of all colors but white who can shut up and stand at the rear, the rest of the blacks are just Trump supporters and racist themselves.
    Hi Ernie. This can be a very emotional issue for all parties concerned, and we should all have a seat at the table. A posted quote showing what you’re referring to here would be a great help, because as of right now no one knows whether you’re referencing my previous post above, or someone else’s on down the line.

    I can’t emphasize enough how vitally important clear, concise, and respectful communication is in sensitive matters like this. We can disagree and that’s fine, that’s what a forum like this is all about, hashing things out, but we really must know who, and what, is the disagreement based upon.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    GET OVER IT -- to qualify this was said because of what is going on in this thread.

    To give a little more background to where im coming from.

    45 years ago I went through suicidal extreme alcoholism.
    After 9month hospitalisation I went to AA for years, there I was told "GET OVER IT" or die.
    Every excuse that I wanted to use for my drinking would only take me back to the bottle.

    I heard so many terrible stories night after night from fellow members.
    I heard the success stories that encouraged me a day at a time.

    At that time AA was very new and I was faced with everyone in the small town knowing my problem-- try to get a job with that hanging over you.
    Polite smiles but no way.

    Three young children and a mortgage --I could still play in pubs at night but that was hard.

    What Im saying is regardless of racism, victimisation --you name, it some will overcome it from the most humble and difficult situation.

    The future is in the individuals hands.
    Rise above it.

    Thats my story I am not the story.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    I think the reason I've struggled to find a balance between empathy for those who are genuinely oppressed and my more pragmatic, cynical side, is because of the way things are arranged now socially.

    a) It's difficult to parse out who the genuinely oppressed and suffering are vis a vis those who are merely grandstanding. Social justice often hides it's lust for power in notions of compassion. So even as I'm finding myself wanting to extend an olive branch, I'm also very wary of empowering the wrong people

    b) I fear that to express sympathy for, say, BLM, is to also imply my tacit approval for such deplorable concepts as "white frailty", "white privilege", "white supremacy", "equity, diversity, and inclusivity", and so on.

    In my view, those are all Orwellian concepts that often mean the exact opposite of that they appear to mean.

    I DO understand why they appeal to compassionate people. I get that! Because, what kind of fair-minded and kind person wouldn't want equality?

    Here's a question though, and I'm asking this in good faith. I've asked it before and no one will touch it. Hand on my heart: I don't mean this to sound condescending or any such thing. I've only just uncovered some of this for myself recently, so no judgements on those who are a bit in the dark...

    ..my question is this: Do you really understand what equity means? I don't think the average person has any idea what that means when it's being uttered by activists. It doesn't mean equality in any kind of conventional sense; what it means is equality of outcome. To understand why equality of outcome doctrines are so dangerous, you have to know a bit about history. And if you don't know a bit about history, you are likely going to think that those offering up concerns for such concepts are racist and bigoted..

    ..and those that you are accusing of racism and bigotry are going to accuse you of historical ignorance. And around and around we go....

    Not very productive.

    So, it might be productive for us to meet in the middle somewhere. Those of us that are harping about social justice and equality of outcome doctrines have to learn to let it go sometimes and just offer our sympathies for those who are genuinely suffering and oppressed. And those who don't quite understand what equality of outcome doctrines are might want to read up about it a little (see: Mao and Stalin)

    Many of us are viewing this from the extremes. That's what we're all most frightened of so it's understandable in that sense. I'm guilty of this too. Taken to it's extreme, racism brings us things like the KKK, and Hitler. On the flip side, taken to the extreme, social justice-postmodern-neo marxism offers us Mao and Stalin as historical examples. In our debates, we're viewing each other as Hitler's and Mao's and Stalin's, and not the intellectually reasonable and heart-centered people most of us actually are.
    Last edited by Mike; 20th June 2020 at 17:16.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Hi Ernie. This can be a very emotional issue for all parties concerned, and we should all have a seat at the table. A posted quote showing what you’re referring to here would be a great help, because as of right now no one knows whether you’re referencing my previous post above, or someone else’s on down the line.

    I can’t emphasize enough how vitally important clear, concise, and respectful communication is in sensitive matters like this. We can disagree and that’s fine, that’s what a forum like this is all about, hashing things out, but we really must know who, and what, is the disagreement based upon.
    I could be specific but choose not to be.

    It applies just as well in a general sense, from what we've all seen in these video clips. Representation in CHOP is limited to black males and females, white women, children of color - preferably handicapped, with special mention to every single Asian minority except American males of Oriental decent. Whites being forced to take a knee, whites asked to stand at the back during important discussions, occupying cities through violence, cancelling voices of any naysayers of any origin, labeling counter views as racist, losing jobs for voicing one's opinion, slanted reporting fomenting violence and division, and many more assaults on so-called civilized life. Not to mention the Marxist ideology of the leaders and their major supporters. That's communism in its extreme. That should be a hate word in America especially, considering the constitution.

    The point is no discussion is sought. And some opinions matter more than others. That is the ideology of communism too. It is that ideology I oppose. If my opinion is superseded by another then we are surely not equal and can never be equal because the distinction is part of the concession. It is like having a constitution that begins by stating the rights of everyone and then a special section reserving extra rights for a select minority. It cannot work and renders the declaration moot.

    If true and lasting change is sought it must be inclusive.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    ...

    ..my question is this: Do you really understand what equity means? I don't think the average person has any idea what that means when it's being uttered by activists. It doesn't mean equality in any kind of conventional sense; what it means is equality of outcome.
    Not very productive.
    .
    I am not an activist. That said a chumbawamba song phrase it like this. "When the system starts to crack, we have to be ready to give it all back."

    As for the equality of outcome.. I've spend a few days watching many a Jordan Peterson video, discussions and interview. I think he has a double agenda and confuses his conclusions with the historical outcomes. Like he says it's difficult.

    In my understanding though the willingness to give back is different than a totalitarian regime made arbiter of said back giving.

    Are we ready to give it all back?

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Although this was written in the '90's by Thomas Sowell I believe it is worth contributing to the discussions of today.

    Quote THE QUEST FOR COSMIC JUSTICE
    by Thomas Sowell

        When you try to condense a book representing years of thought and research into a half-hour talk, a certain amount of over-simplification is inevitable.  With that understood, let me try to summarize the message of The Quest for Cosmic Justice in three propositions which may seem to be axiomatic, but whose implications are in fact politically controversial:

    1. The impossible is not going to be achieved.
    2. It is a waste of precious resources to try to achieve it.
    3. The devastating costs and social dangers which go with these attempts to achieve the impossible should be taken into account.

        Cosmic justice is one of the impossible dreams which has a very high cost and very dangerous potentialities.
        What is cosmic justice and how does it differ from more traditional conceptions of justice-- and from the more recent and more fervently sought "social justice"?

        Traditional concepts of justice or fairness, at least within the American tradition, boil down to applying the same rules and standards to everyone.  This is what is meant by a "level playing field"-- at least within that tradition, though the very same words mean something radically different within a framework that calls itself "social justice."  Words like "fairness," "advantage" and "disadvantage" likewise have radically different meanings within the very different frameworks of traditional justice and "social justice."

        John Rawls perhaps best summarized the differences when he distinguished "fair" equality of opportunity from merely "formal" equality of opportunity. Traditional justice, fairness, or equality of opportunity are merely formal in Professor Rawls' view and in the view of his many followers and comrades.  For those with this view, "genuine equality of opportunity" cannot be achieved by the application of the same rules and standards to all, but requires specific interventions to equalize either prospects or results.  As Rawls puts it, "undeserved inequalities call for redress."

        A fight in which both boxers observe the Marquis of Queensberry rules would be a fair fight, according to traditional standards of fairness, irrespective of whether the contestants were of equal skill, strength, experience or other factors likely to affect the outcome-- and irrespective of whether that outcome was a hard-fought draw or a completely one-sided beating.

        This would not, however, be a fair fight within the framework of those seeking "social justice," if the competing fighters came into the ring with very different prospects of success-- especially if these differences were due to factors beyond their control.

        Presumably, the vast ranges of undeserved inequalities found everywhere are the fault of "society" and so the redressing of those inequalities is called social justice, going beyond the traditional justice of presenting each individual with the same rules and standards.  However, even those who argue this way often recognize that some undeserved inequalities may arise from cultural differences, family genes, or from historical confluences of events not controlled by anybody or by any given society at any given time.  For example, there was no way that Pee Wee Reese was going to hit as many home runs as Mark McGwire, or Shirley Temple run as fast as Jesse Owens.  There was no way that Scandinavians or Polynesians were going to know as much about camels as the Bedouins of the Sahara-- and no way that these Bedouins were going to know as much about fishing as the Scandinavians or Polynesians.

        In a sense, proponents of "social justice" are unduly modest.  What they are seeking to correct are not merely the deficiencies of society, but of the cosmos. What they call social justice encompasses far more than any given society is causally responsible for.  Crusaders for social justice seek to correct not merely the sins of man but the oversights of God or the accidents of history.  What they are really seeking is a universe tailor-made to their vision of equality.  They are seeking cosmic justice.

        This perspective on justice can be found in a wide range of activities and places, from the street-corner community activist to the august judicial chambers of the Supreme Court.  For example, a former dean of admissions at Stanford University said that she had never required applicants to submit Achievement Test scores because "requiring such tests could unfairly penalize disadvantaged students in the college admissions process," because such students, "through no fault of their own, often find themselves in high schools that provide inadequate preparation for the Achievement Tests."1  Through no fault of their own-- one of the recurrent phrases in this kind of argument-- seems to imply that it is the fault of "society" but remedies are sought independently of any empirical evidence that it is.

        Let me try to illustrate some of the problems with this approach by a mundane personal example.  Whenever I hear discussions of fairness in education, my automatic response is: "Thank God my teachers were unfair to me when I was a kid growing up in Harlem."  One of these teachers was a lady named Miss Simon, who was from what might be called the General Patton school of education. Every word that we misspelled in class had to be written 50 times-- not in class, but in our homework that was due the next morning, on top of all the other homework that she and other teachers loaded onto us.  Misspell four or five words and you had quite an evening ahead of you.

        Was this fair?  Of course not.  Like many of the children in Harlem at that time, I came from a family where no one had been educated beyond elementary school.  We could not afford to buy books and magazines, like children in more affluent neighborhood schools, so we were far less likely to be familiar with these words that we were required to write 50 times.

        But fairness in this cosmic sense was never an option.  As noted at the outset, the impossible is not going to be achieved.  Nothing that the schools could do would make things fair in this sense.  It would have been an irresponsible self-indulgence for them to have pretended to make things fair.  Far worse than unfairness is make-believe fairness.  Instead, they forced us to meet standards that were harder for us to meet-- but far more necessary for us to meet, as these were the main avenues for our escape from poverty.

        Many years later, I happened to run into one of my Harlem schoolmates on the streets of San Francisco. He was now a psychiatrist and owned a home and property out in the Napa valley.  As we reminisced about the past and caught up on things that had happened to us in between, he mentioned that his various secretaries over the years had commented on the fact that he seldom misspelled a word.  My secretaries have made the same comment-- but, if they knew Miss Simon, it would be no mystery why we seldom misspelled words.

        It so happens that I was a high school dropout.  But what I was taught before I dropped out was enough for me to score higher on the verbal SAT than the average Harvard student.  That may well have had something to do with my being admitted to Harvard in an era before the concept of "affirmative action" was conceived.

        What if our teachers had been imbued with the present-day conception of "fairness"?  Clearly we would not have been tested with the same tests and held to standards as other kids in higher-income neighborhoods, whose parents had at least twice as many years of schooling as ours and probably much more than twice as much money.  And where would my schoolmate and I have ended up? Perhaps in some half-way house, if we were lucky.

        And would that not have been an injustice-- to take individuals capable of being independent, self-supporting, and self-directed men and women, with pride in their own achievements, and turn them into dependents, clients, supplicants, mascots?  Currently, the Educational Testing Service is adopting minority students as mascots by turning the SAT exams into race-normed instruments to circumvent the growing number of prohibitions against group preferences.  The primary purpose of mascots is to symbolize something that makes others feel good.  The well-being of the mascot himself is seldom a major consideration.

        The argument here is not against real justice or real equality.  Both of these things are desirable in themselves, just as immortality may be considered desirable in itself.  The only arguments against any of these things is that they are impossible-- and the cost of pursuing impossible dreams are not negligible.

        Socially counterproductive policies are just one of the many costs of the quest for cosmic justice.  The rule of law, on which a free society depends, is inherently incompatible with cosmic justice.  Laws exist in all kinds of societies, from the freest to the most totalitarian.  But the rule of law-- a government of laws and not of men, as it used to be called-- is rare and vulnerable.  You cannot redress the myriad inequalities which pervade human life by applying the same rules to all or by applying any rules other than the arbitrary dispensations of those in power.  The final chapter of The Quest for Cosmic Justice is titled "The Quiet Repeal of the American Revolution"-- because that is what is happening piecemeal by zealots devoted to their own particular applications of cosmic justice.

        They are not trying to destroy the rule of law.  They are not trying to undermine the American republic.  They are simply trying to produce "gender equity," institutions that "look like America" or a thousand other goals that are incompatible with the rule of law, but corollaries of cosmic justice.

        Because ordinary Americans have not yet abandoned traditional justice, those who seek cosmic justice must try to justify it politically as meeting traditional concepts of justice.  A failure to achieve the new vision of justice must be represented to the public and to the courts as "discrimination." Tests that register the results of innumerable inequalities must be represented as being the cause of those inequalities or as deliberate efforts to perpetuate those inequalities by erecting arbitrary barriers to the advancement of the less fortunate.

        In short, to promote cosmic justice, they must misrepresent what is happening as violations of traditional justice-- as understood by others who do not share their vision.  Nor do those who make such claims necessarily believe them themselves.  As Joseph Schumpeter once said: "The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie."

        The next thing the idealist will do is character assassination.  All those who disagree with the great vision must be shown to have malign intentions, if not deep-seated character flaws.  They must be "Borked," to use a verb coined in our times.  They must be depicted as "A Strange Justice" if somehow they survive the Borking process.  They must be depicted as having some personal "obsessions" if they carry out the duties they swore to carry out as a special prosecutor.  In short, demonization is one of the costs of the quest for cosmic justice.

        The victims of this process are not limited to those targeted.  The society as a whole loses when its decisions are made by character assassination, rather than by rational discussion, and when its pool of those eligible for leadership is drained by the exodus of those who are not prepared to sacrifice their good name or subject their family to humiliations for the sake of grasping the levers of power.  This loss is not merely quantitative, for those who are willing to endure any personal or family humiliations for the sake of power are the most dangerous people to trust with power.

        In a sense, those caught up in the vision of cosmic justice are also among its victims.  Having committed themselves to a vision and demonized all who oppose it, how are they to turn around and subject that vision to searching empirical scrutiny, much less repudiate it as evidence of its counterproductive results mount up?

        Ironically, the quest for greater economic and social equality is promoted through a far greater inequality of political power.  If rules cannot produce cosmic justice, only raw power is left as the way to produce the kinds of results being sought.  In a democracy, where power must gain public acquiescence, not only must the rule of law be violated or circumvented, so must the rule of truth.  However noble the vision of cosmic justice, arbitrary power and shameless lies are the only paths that even seem to lead in its direction.  As noted at the outset, the devastating costs and social dangers which go with these attempts to achieve the impossible should be taken into account.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by YoYoYo (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    ...
    It's hard to believe what has happened to this forum. Hard to believe, disappointing and just sad. Half the members don't want to mask up, yet I can easily picture them in KKK gear.
    Um wut? "..easily [half the forum] in KKK gear."?

    Are you sure you can easily see half the forum in KKK gear? There's something wrong with that picture. Even with the clumsiest of phrasing I see on the forum sometimes, I don't see what you see
    I was exaggerating to make a point...however YOYoYo... even a compassionate person can be incrementally moved toward authoritarianism under the rubric of "free speech" It's like violent pornography. It's legal. It's currently protected under "free speech" but someone is still getting screwed.

    People who are politically saavy or who have some measure of common sense understand what it might look like if freedom of speech were curtailed. But you have to have more than common sense to understand what it looks like when it's not.

    That requires a fairly intimate understanding of propaganda and the history of oppression and mob violence and/or mob complicity in violence. Fairly recent European history is instructive.

    The propaganda about the Jews was rife with complete and utter bull****. Many Germans believed that Jews sacrificed children, that they were demonic. They were in total control, behind the scenes. Good Germans ate it up. Were they SS, were they all goose stepping? Hardly. Many of them were compassionate lovely people who had finally identified the enemy Does this sound a bit like the alt right propaganda against "liberuls" Damn right.

    I detest Hillary Clinton as much as anybody, but the whole Q clusterf*** bs about her participation in blood rituals, child sacrifice etc...so harkens back to the process of demonization of Jews. It wasn't enough that she was directly responsible for overt death of children and adults "over there somewhere." That's not close enough to home for propagandists. It has to be on home soil and it should involve children.

    Because the loony left have been conflated with traditional liberals, through propaganda outlets like the Drudge report, Fox news, and social media vortexes, there are a significant minority of individuals who have an exaggerated perception of threat coming from the left, while the real threat is right wing fascism. This has always been the case in the U.S, since Kennedy's assasination. This is the little secret you're not supposed to focus on.

    Who has the biggest guns, who owns the judiciary, the military, etc...It's not BLM. To ignore the reality and buy the current alt right zietgiest. (Heck I don't know how to spell that!) has placed some in KKK garb, unfortunately. The focus is taken off the real problems of murder by cop, and placed it in a context where the central reality and cruelty of that situation is either minimized or lost.

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    Default Re: The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Quote Hi Ernie. This can be a very emotional issue for all parties concerned, and we should all have a seat at the table. A posted quote showing what you’re referring to here would be a great help, because as of right now no one knows whether you’re referencing my previous post above, or someone else’s on down the line.

    I can’t emphasize enough how vitally important clear, concise, and respectful communication is in sensitive matters like this. We can disagree and that’s fine, that’s what a forum like this is all about, hashing things out, but we really must know who, and what, is the disagreement based upon.
    I could be specific but choose not to be.

    It applies just as well in a general sense, from what we've all seen in these video clips. Representation in CHOP is limited to black males and females, white women, children of color - preferably handicapped, with special mention to every single Asian minority except American males of Oriental decent. Whites being forced to take a knee, whites asked to stand at the back during important discussions, occupying cities through violence, cancelling voices of any naysayers of any origin, labeling counter views as racist, losing jobs for voicing one's opinion, slanted reporting fomenting violence and division, and many more assaults on so-called civilized life. Not to mention the Marxist ideology of the leaders and their major supporters. That's communism in its extreme. That should be a hate word in America especially, considering the constitution.

    The point is no discussion is sought. And some opinions matter more than others. That is the ideology of communism too. It is that ideology I oppose. If my opinion is superseded by another then we are surely not equal and can never be equal because the distinction is part of the concession. It is like having a constitution that begins by stating the rights of everyone and then a special section reserving extra rights for a select minority. It cannot work and renders the declaration moot.

    If true and lasting change is sought it must be inclusive.
    I'm sure some of this is happening, Ernie, but could you please provide a link as to where you found this information? Thanks bro.

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