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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    What I was talking about is called a double stop. It is done on a down bow, the lower strings are played (as a pair) first, and then the upper strings (as a pair). It is actually a 3 or 4 note chord. It really is called a double stop.
    Hrm. I might take a swipe at that and insist it is an arpeggio. But I understand what you are saying. One could perhaps argue that strumming a guitar chord must have a microsecond or so between hitting the strings, so, it really is arpeggiated, with a piano you could say theoretically you hit everything at the same time but something might be off by a microsecond, whereas with an organ, since the notes are continuously produced, it must definitely be a chord since they are simultaneously occurring even if struck microscopically differently.

    Semantics vs. the brain's division of time.

    I love cellos and Mellora Craeger.


    Quote Niguma supposedly cursed a man who failed to redirect and ejaculated into her, and the man spent years in madness and penury begging her for forgiveness.
    I bet. That may sound strange when we talk about Mahasiddhas and goodness and love and see the plethora of curses and similar things being doled out, murder in the case of Padmasambhava. I get it. I am not squeamish about feeling there is quite a bit of chastising to be done and even in some cases fighting. Taming the untameable, binding ghosts, and so on, which is why I think of this as a Lion's task moreso than that of a sheep.



    Quote So I traded creating a future obstacle for being able to get around an overwhelming fear in the present.
    Makes sense to me. Maybe it is like breathing. Most of the time, we forget it, and it still works. At other times we become mindful and control it. But then we are not worried about whether we will forget it or be able to do it again.

    It has been said in Theosophy that ancient people had to apply their mental energy to peristalsis and making digestion work, had to mentally beat their heart, and so on, and now those things are automatic. It would be scary if it was possible to forget how to make one's heart work. It would be very disorienting to contend with "what if I can't get everything turned on again?"

    Being able to dissolve into Void therefor wants you to be able to consciously manifest the Nirmanakaya. That seems to be a major meaning to Gold Locana of Earth Element. Then you don't really even have a physical body any more because it is simply a vessel of harmonious waveforms you have produced.

    I would say that I have experienced a similar realm to what you are getting at with Muscle Memory, except that I did not have the same attachment. Memory, in the state I am describing, was irrelevant, not available. I probably have some other type of attachment, but, not exactly that one. You seem to know how you are going through it, and, it is on a "personal timer" where the blockage will be valid for some period of time and some specific training, and, following the advice, you do not make many more attachments--or anchors--since you know what you are doing, you will shed it when the time is right.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    This is interesting, I would have put such a one in the Durga camp.
    True for the most part, Durga being Uma--Parvati.

    The legend says Parvati "became known as" Annapurna, although, to some reviewers, she may have become known as Ammapurna, Cornucopia--Mother of Plenty, which would give wiggle room for Lakshmi to be Annapurna or Giver of Plenty, something more like the active agent than the primal source. The dark side of Tara says that Hunger is the first driving force to govern Creation, part of Rajas. And so Parvati--extremely subtle Divine Desire for Feeding--could arguably exist as a counter for primordial hunger, which utilizes Lakshmi--Divine Providence of Feeding--as its solution.


    The Newari tradition does not say she is Ila or Bhu, but, rather, Six Arm Vasudhara, which is supposed to be a profound occult Dawning of a deity, this six-armed thing. And in the Buddhist practice, it is more about what makes her operate Noumenally, and not necessarily how she exists in mundane default nature. We want to invoke Annapurna to work through us, not pray to her to fix everything on her own.

    In this view, Agni Homa is really a Vasudhara ritual. It begins with Ila and Bhu, can easily utilize Bharati, and culminates in Vasudhara--Annapurna.

    Vasudhara is also the main gateway to Vajravarahi, which by implication would involve Varuni, and if you follow Varuni you can get to Bharati.



    Quote This at least is all inclusive, and one becoming another is something that happens with some of the Dakinis in my shaking -- Chunda/Prajnaparamita, Ekajati/Nairatmya/somebody blue I never fully identified.
    Yes, that is how it is supposed to work. Some of it is linear, and some is lateral, like if Prajnaparamita turns into a Book, she may be held by Manjushri, Cunda, Vasudhara, and others, and then you get something like "your current Prajnaparamita realization" crossed with "your power to commune with Earth Devi", and each may boost the other, but they are still like different channels or stations. They run in general streams like Ekajati--Nairatma, which have preferred directions or patterns they try to make.

    Certain kinds come more naturally to some people than others.

    So like for me, Green Tara was quite easy, but I had no thoughts about her relative to Dhyani Buddha Families or anything like that, so, to me, she is not exactly Karma Tara.

    But instead, I feel a close kinship and understanding of Amoghasiddhi, except not in a way of him having anything to do with Tara, just as himself, which is really inside myself. I suppose with Tara, I never thought of self-generation and always held her in a Yoga view, external, as if we are two people having a conversation. And so I still meditate this way and will for a long time.

    I am pretty familiar with both of them but the thought that they are really in Union at this very moment is completely beyond me.

    If yours could be considered as Wrathful, then, at least, pretty specifically she can be called Candi, who is usually supposed to be Smoke colored, but the form you see is not a recorded one. But if I want to sit here and honor Nyan's Tara, well, he just has a bunch of things that were never recorded that were personal manifestations to him. If it is in the books, that means it has been accepted by others who were able to use it the same way. Nyan's Green Tara is Sadanga Tara, i. e. her name means Six Limb Yoga, Pratyahara, Dharana, and the rest, which is very cool because then this abstruse, difficult subject is being handed out freely with an easily accessible deity.

    Nyan also manifested Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini. Because he is also in the Jnanapada Manjuvajra lineage and so on, he portrays Profound View, Yoga Tantra, and Generation Stage very well, projecting through these excellent and rare teaching deities.

    So that is why before I visualize myself as Vajrayogini, I am going to work to the point where there is a Bhava of such a Vajrayogini as just mentioned.

    I expect there to be a whole lot of practices between here and there, mostly being Taras or Vasudharas, etc., and mostly being summarized in the song, Twenty-one Praises of Tara.

    In Twenty-one Taras, I have taken to thinking of the first as Pithesvari, whose practice is associated with Saraha and Arrow Dakini, i. e. the first Mahasiddha.

    She is one of the few Taras who appears in Dakini form. Her name means the full set of Sati Pithas, all over India wherever Sati's parts were scattered, subject to a few varying claims, with others being commonly accepted, such as her spine falling at the very southern point of India, where Kanya Kumari resides now.

    It is the external view of what is translated into the Sacred Sites of Body Mandala or the subtle body in Chakrasamvara Tantra and so on.

    Pithesvari is said to be in Uddiyana in India's Sacred Geography

    She is also Kamakshi in Kanci:

    The Devi in this temple is still called Mi
    PitheSvari or Adi Pitha ParmeSvari (the Sovereign
    Lady of the ancient or original Pitha ).


    Arrow Dakini and/or how Saraha got this practice may stem from a relatively unknown, forgotten yogini mentioned in
    Women in India:

    The most notable yogini author is Vajravati (Diamond-like
    Woman), the author of the manual for Pithesvari, the Wrathful Red Tara.
    Women teachers Lakshminkara, Mekhala, and Kanakhala composed the
    manuals for Severed-Head Vajra-yogini Tara.
    Vajravati’s narrative states that she was once a respected, pure minded
    brahman woman who carefully observed caste rules. Sensing her spiritual
    potential, a Tantric Buddhist of the weaver caste invited her to reject orthodoxy and to become his disciple. Convinced that he could teach her
    Buddha’s wisdom, Vajravati accepted him, thus crossing the barriers of gender and caste. Vajravati later devised a meditative technique through which
    the aspirant imagined she was Red Tara in a standing yogic pose on a lotus.
    Red Tara is often shown with a bone necklace signifying communion with
    death, and her hands hold a diamond spear (vajra) and a blue lotus. Despite
    the fearful symbols, the technique is believed to bring enlightened bliss.


    The last sentence is an example where Bhava is far from the same thing as an anthropological report.

    Fearful symbols are butter with our breakfast, and it actually does bring enlightened bliss, there is no despite or belief about it.

    I cannot do it now, but, given time and opportunity, I could use many of these Taras, the one that does Yoga, this one that squirts fire through my Pitha system, the one that perfects the Tri-samadhi, the one that will be there at death, and so on, I am not sure I could get to Marici Vajradhatvishvari in this lifetime, but I can easily see where that goes. Art of Conscious Dying happens well before full Buddhahood (Marici). It is like you are learning Transference and perfecting it in cycles made up of your lifetimes.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote You seem to know how you are going through it, and, it is on a "personal timer" where the blockage will be valid for some period of time and some specific training, and, following the advice, you do not make many more attachments--or anchors--since you know what you are doing, you will shed it when the time is right.
    The blockage, unless something is done to remove it, is I think permanent. I haven't tried to remove one, I have 3. I just assume that at some point they become impediments, and at that point I will be told to remove them and will have to figure out, or have to learn, how to. I'm pretty sure I could remove the impediment to possession. I'm not sure about the other two.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote In this view, Agni Homa is really a Vasudhara ritual. It begins with Ila and Bhu, can easily utilize Bharati, and culminates in Vasudhara--Annapurna.
    So is Annapurna Vasudhara? Because that article I read about Lajjia Gauri really being a version of a goddess going back to the Harappa period ended in Vasudhara as well.

    Quote If yours could be considered as Wrathful, then, at least, pretty specifically she can be called Candi, who is usually supposed to be Smoke colored, but the form you see is not a recorded one.
    None of them are usually wrathful, but can turn that way very quickly as the situation warrants. So apparently can I, if I am to do something like flitting it becomes smoky and angry in an instant if it doesn't happen at first.

    Quote Despite
    the fearful symbols, the technique is believed to bring enlightened bliss.


    The last sentence is an example where Bhava is far from the same thing as an anthropological report.

    Fearful symbols are butter with our breakfast, and it actually does bring enlightened bliss, there is no despite or belief about it.
    I'm not sure why this kind of thing happens. There seems to be a great interest, even an attraction to things like tantra, and at the same time a great effort put into making things more 'nice'. The sex is symbolic, those aren't really blood filled skulls, etc. etc. If you take all that stuff out, where is the shakti?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    So is Annapurna Vasudhara? Because that article I read about Lajjia Gauri really being a version of a goddess going back to the Harappa period ended in Vasudhara as well.
    So they say.

    The indication here is that at some point, the proper Nirmana with the Earth Planet reveals Vasudhara as the Physical Cosmos.

    She has been designated as the Sun, itself, and even a White Hole.

    When we say she holds the Vasus, it means the Mahabhuts or Elements as well as Dhruvam or Pole Star and a couple other things.


    The secret of Annapurna is that Sadanga Yoga begins with Pratyahara which occultly is Control of Food. This, in the "process-glyph" is like the Crescent of Inverted Stupa. There is a stronger step than this, into the Triangle, which is Ghasmari or Power of Food, equivalent to Samputa Tantra. This is carried forth in the way in which Food becomes the fifth Offering in the series of inner offerings, corresponding to Five Dissolutions as shown in Vajrayogini's Rahasya or Secret Doctrine of Dakini Jala.

    The Homa, more or less, in its male-based exoteric priestcraft, designates the efflux of Nectar as Agni Entering the Body (Avesa).

    It does not mention anything about him in Union with Svaha or anything like that from what I recall.

    The subsequent Annapurna is more esoteric and Dharani-based, and is like the Kurukulla--Ekajati Nectar Saturation cranked exponentially. And so it is like the esoteric Agni seed is supposed to make "the ultimate" form of Annapurna or i. e., an overwhelming cascade. This is, of course, intersticed with the Visarjan or Sending Forth of Luminous Beings for the world's welfare.

    In this case, Agni = Smrti or Sadhana, Annapurna = Samadhi.

    Vasudhara resides in the Homa as Yogurt along with Kumari (Katyayani, Vimala, etc.) being Red Powder.


    If I had any reason to suspect "Khaye" was a Newari word, it would be Vasudhara, in a relation to Dhumavati--Crow:

    Certain portions of
    feast is offered to the god called as dyo bo. One of this is offered to the crow. This is
    called as ko nan cipan thiyekegu. Feast is started only when this offering is eaten by a
    crow. Khay, the main prasād is taken first in sali and then samay is served. After this,
    senior male members get involved in singing the dāphā me, songs which have words
    of praise for the lineage god, while other members prepare feast for the evening.

    According to a dissertation on Digu Puja. So Khay or Khaye would be recognizable as Curds.

    But in Newari it might still be used as a combination for "to become" such as:

    ajaḥ[i] (var. aṂja) n. (ajala-) mascara, black collyrium (consisting of soot, cardamom, camphor and nutmeg, boilt in oil) for protection of the eyes; ~ ule to apply collyrium; ~ khāke to prepare collyrium; ~ khāye 1. to become blackish (at the approach of death): māṃyā mhutusī ajaḥ khāta. Mother's lips became blackish.

    According to Kathmandu Newari Lexicon.

    "Dhuma Khaye". Still puzzled about this. To become blackish like smoke? Curds for the Crow?

    But I am pretty sure we could say Food is the "input" to Buddhist Sadanga Yoga, and takes on ever more subtle meanings until it is tantric Annapurna or Noumenal Vasudhara.




    Quote None of them are usually wrathful, but can turn that way very quickly as the situation warrants. So apparently can I, if I am to do something like flitting it becomes smoky and angry in an instant if it doesn't happen at first.
    Smoke is either Candi (Tara) or Dhumavati (Lakshmi).

    Similar to Smoky Ganesh.

    Upper Face of Dhvajagrakeyura.

    Equal to Prana.

    Perhaps, roughly, normal Green Tara is "cultivate this", and, the Wrathful Reflex "is" this.

    Quote The sex is symbolic, those aren't really blood filled skulls, etc. etc. If you take all that stuff out, where is the shakti?
    That comes close to what I am saying that what I do is different from a professional psychologist or a church councilor or anyone like that, because there is no "authority figure", there is only this Power.

    Quite similar to Animal Magnetism. That perhaps is a perspective towards Muscle Memory.

    Someone listened to a bit of what I say and seemed to have turned on a dime in some way to, perhaps, listen to me at length, which is kind of unusual. There was a twist of musicality to it which I guess is what got it going. Meanwhile the difficulties of being in what I can only describe as "in the kennel" remain stagnant.

    To me, any real success in Deity Yoga is seamlessly coupled to the Nirmana of the outer world. Where I usually am, there is no such thing, which is why I am getting so much Upeksa. So far, it is not an insult-proof recycler Ucchista Ganapati accomplishing much except me personally "being prepared", with, so far, no way to use it versus suicidal-sounding stonewalling.

    What is interesting about Pithesvari is that her form actually is relevant to a standing Yoga practice. The article quoted wasn't accurate in describing Pithesvari which is not the same as Red Tara. The tendency to use the color to define the Family may be provisionally true and therefor useful, but, further along, there are numerous exceptions, whereas a name like Red Tara refers to only one or two specific sadhanas.

    That by no means was the subject of a book about many women.

    Miranda Shaw has a much better Vajravati article stating that her story was recorded by Lakshminkara, that she was a disciple of Anandavajra by way of song, and that she wanted her lineage to be passed to girls instead of boys. Miranda also figured out the real Pithesvari form and translates a few lines of the sadhana wherein she is called Buddha Tara, which, I would guess, means equal to a Buddha or is a Prajna.

    Vajravati is Vasudhara in her Dharani on a site with the recording.

    It is a clearly-spoken recital for pronunciation, but, is not quite the actual process. Where he iterates the different kinds of mantras, it goes along with a different thought or visualization, and so for example the actual Dharani beginning is at .10 with "Om Sri Surupe", and you can do this section as many times as you want, without repeating Om, just like Prajnaparamita:

    Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha

    Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha

    0:00 - 0:07
    namo ratnatrayāya | om namo bhagavate vajradharasāgaranirghoṣāya
    tathāgatasyārhate samyaksaṃbuddhāya tadyathā
    0:10 - 0:17
    om śrī surūpe suvadane bhadre subhadre
    bhadravati maṃgale sumaṃgale maṃgalavati
    0:18 - 0:25
    argale argalavati candre candravati ale acale
    acapale udghātini udbhedini ucchedini udyotini
    0:29 - 0:36
    śasyavati dhanavati dhānyavati udyotavati
    śrīmati prabhavati amale vimale nirmale
    0:36 - 0:43
    rurume surūpe surupavimale arcanaste atanaste
    vitanaste anunaste avanatahaste viśvakeśi
    0:46 - 0:53
    viśvaniśi viśvanaṃśi viśvarūpiṇi
    viśvanakhi viśvaśire viśuddhaśīle vigūhanīye
    0:53 - 1:00
    viśuddhanīye uttare anuttare aṃkure naṃkure
    prabhaṃkure rarame ririme rurume khakhame
    1:02 - 1:09
    khikhime khukhume dhadhame dhidhime dhudhume
    tatare tatare ture ture tara tara tāraya
    1:10 - 1:17
    tāraya māṃsarvasattvāṃśca vajre vajre
    vajragarbhe vajropame vajriṇi vajravati
    1:17 - 1:24
    ukke bukke nukke dhukke kakke hakke ḍhakke
    ṭakke varakke āvarttini nivarttini nivarṣaṇi
    1:25 - 1:32
    pravarṣaṇi vardhani pravardhani niṣpādani
    vajradharasāgaranirghoṣaṃ tathāgataṃ
    1:33 - 1:40
    anusmara anusmara sarvatathāgatasatyamanusmara
    saṃghasatyamanusmara anihāri anihāri tapa
    1:41 - 1:48
    tapa kuṭa kuṭa pūra pūra pūraya pūraya
    bhagavati vasudhāre mama saparivārasya sarveṣāṃ
    1:50 - 1:57
    sattvānāṃ ca bhara bhara bharaṇi śāntamati
    jayamati mahāmati sumaṃgalamati piṃgalamati
    1:59 - 2:06
    subhadramati śubhamati candramati āgacchāgaccha
    samayamanusmara svāhā |

    The Dharani has ended there, and these are sections about additional mantras and her mandala:

    svabhāvāmanusmara
    2:08 - 2:15
    svāhā | dhṛtiṃ .... | sarvatathāgatānāṃ
    vinayaṃ ... hṛdayaṃ ... upahṛdayaṃ

    [Vinaya]

    2:18 - 2:24
    ... jayaṃ ... vijayaṃ ... sarvasatvavijayamanusmara
    svāhā |

    [Hrdaya]

    2:24 - 2:31
    om śrīṃ vasumukhīṃ svāhā | om śrīṃ
    vasuśrī svāhā | om śrīṃ vasuśriye
    2:32 - 2:39
    svāhā | om vasumati svāhā | om vasumatiśriye
    svāhā | om vasve svāhā | om vasude svāhā
    2:41 - 2:48
    | om vasuṃdhari svāhā |

    [Upahrdaya]

    om dhariṇi dhāriṇi
    svāhā | om samayasaumye samayaṃkari mahāsamaye
    2:49 - 2:55
    svāhā | om śriye svāhā | om śrīkari
    svāhā | om dhanakari svāhā | om dhānyakari
    2:55 - 2:55
    svāhā |
    2:55 - 3:00

    mūlamantra | om śriye śrīkari svāhā
    | om dhanakari dhānyakari ratnavarṣaṇi
    3:00 - 3:07
    svāhā | sādhyamantra | om vasudhāre svāhā
    | hṛdayam | lakṣmyai svāhā | om upahṛdayam
    3:07 - 3:12
    | om lakṣmī bhūtalanivāsine svāhā | saṃyathā
    daṃ om yānapātrāvahe svāhā |

    Lakshmi Bhutalavasini Dharani:

    3:12 - 3:19
    tadyathā | suṭa suṭa khaṭa khaṭa
    khiṭi khiṭi khuṭu khuṭu maru maru
    3:21 - 3:28
    muṃca muṃca maruñca maruñca tarppiṇi
    tarppiṇi tarjani tarjani dehi dehi dāpaya
    3:28 - 3:32
    dāpaya uttiṣṭa uttiṣṭa hiraṇyasuvarṇaṃ
    pradāpaya svāhā | annapānāya svāhā
    3:32 - 3:39
    | vasunipātāya svāhā | gauḥ svāhā
    surabhe svāhā | vasu svāhā | vasupataye
    3:41 - 3:48
    svāhā | indrāya svāhā | yamāya svāhā
    | varuṇāya svāhā | vaiśravaṇāya svāhā
    3:50 - 3:57
    | digbhyo vidigbhyaḥ svāhā |

    utpādayantu
    me kāṃkṣāvirahaṃ anumodayantu imaṃ
    3:57 - 4:04
    me mantrapadāḥ | om hraṃ hrīṃ ehyehi
    bhagavati dada dāpaya svāhā | etadbhagavatyā
    4:06 - 4:13
    āryavasudhārāyā hṛdayaṃ mahāpāpakariṇo
    'pi siddhyati puruṣapramāṇān svabhogān
    4:13 - 4:20
    dadāti īpsitaṃ manorathaṃ paripūrayati
    kāmaduhān yān kāmān kāmayati tāṃstānīpsitān


    4:22 - 4:29
    paripūrayati | mūlavidyā | namo ratnatrayāya
    | namo devi dhanadaduhite vasudhāre dhanadhārāṃ
    4:30 - 4:37
    pātaya kuru 2 dhaneśvarī dhanade ratnade
    he hemadhanaratnasāgaramahānidhāne nidhānakoṭiśatasahasraparivṛte
    4:41 - 4:48
    ehyehi bhagavati praviśya matpuraṃ madbhavane
    mahādhanadhānyadhārāṃ pātaya kuru 2
    4:49 - 4:56
    om hraṃ traṭa kailāsavāsinīye svāhā

    | mahāvidyā | om vasudhāre mahāvṛṣṭinipātini
    4:57 - 5:03
    vasu svāhā |

    mūlahṛdayaṃ | om vasudhāre
    sarvārthasādhinī sādhaya 2 uddhara 2 rakṣa
    5:03 - 5:09
    2 | sarvārthanidhayantraṃ vava ṭata vava
    ṭaṇṭa ḍaṇḍa svāhā |

    paramahṛdayaṃ
    5:09 - 5:16
    | om namo bhagavatyai āryalevaḍike yathā
    jīvasaṃrakṣaṇi phalahaste divyarūpe
    5:17 - 5:23
    dhanade varade śuddhe viśuddhe śivakari
    śāntikari bhayanāśini bhayadūṣaṇi
    5:23 - 5:30
    sarvaduṣṭān bhañjaya 2 mohaya 2 jambhaya
    2 stambhaya 2 mama śāntiṃ puṣṭiṃ
    5:32 - 5:36
    vaśyaṃ rakṣāṃ ca kuru 2 svāhā levaḍikā
    dhāriṇīyaṃ


    This is considerably more involved than Ganapati Hrdaya Dharani.

    However, Pratisara is also Vajravati.

    Vasudhara and Pratisara share Vajrini and Vajravati epithets.
    Last edited by shaberon; 16th March 2021 at 02:59.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The Homa, more or less, in its male-based exoteric priestcraft, designates the efflux of Nectar as Agni Entering the Body (Avesa).

    It does not mention anything about him in Union with Svaha or anything like that from what I recall.

    The subsequent Annapurna is more esoteric and Dharani-based, and is like the Kurukulla--Ekajati Nectar Saturation cranked exponentially. And so it is like the esoteric Agni seed is supposed to make "the ultimate" form of Annapurna or i. e., an overwhelming cascade.
    I'm still trying to get the connection between nectar and the Vasudhara or Lajjia Gauri or whoever, maybe Annapurna woman and why the nectar would be the substance of a transition space. On a related note, you had said something about Cunda being associated with Muladhara? Any chance she is somewhat higher, like at the sacrum level?

    Quote khikhime khukhume dhadhame dhidhime dhudhume
    tatare tatare ture ture tara tara tāraya
    So this is Tara?

    Quote However, Pratisara is also Vajravati.

    Vasudhara and Pratisara share Vajrini and Vajravati epithets.
    I was once told that sometimes all the females are just Devi (as in Devi Ma), they are different, but at some level they are not.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    In looking at currently-produced thangkas, Mandalas Life appears to be a site for Newari workshops which will produce a close to 1m tall hand-painted version of something such as Eighteen Arm Cunda which may cost a bit more than I am prepared to put into something.

    They do however have interesting information about some of their items, such as this large, expensive goddess associated with a four-word mantra and an almost "in absentia" practice. One is that her Items may be personal, but, she is actually the "defining stamp" of what it means to have Eighteen Arms:

    Cundi is depicted with eighteen arms, all wielding implements that symbolize skillful means of the Dharma. Her eighteen arms also represent the eighteen merits of attaining Buddhahood, as described in an appendix to the Cundi Dharani Sutra.

    The universal meaning and then her personal items are listed here. Meaning number one is "Body" and her corresponding item is Root Mudra which we have also studied as Prithvi Mudra.

    The hand holding a vajra represents the collective convergence of support given by the eight classes of celestial beings and dragons. It also represents the subjugation of stubborn sentient beings.

    The hand holding a mani or wish-fulfilling pearl represents the vibrant and luminous state of mind which is flawless, pure and perfect.

    Other Eighteen Arm deities include Samputa, Padmajala, Khandaroha, Khaganana, and Bhadrakali, who leads to the origin of Kubjika--Kamakhya Devi of Assam, the menstruating goddess or Pitha:






    The Pitha doing it is a pilgrim's destination, whereas in Orissa, menstruation simply has a festival. The fourth day is called Vasumati gadhua, or ceremonial bath of Bhudevi.

    So Earth is considered to menstruate as Bhu Devi--wife of Vishnu.

    But, a name of Lakshmi--Vasudhara has been attached (Vasumati Mahalakshmi). And so along with a nice Vasudhara painting they offer, they are willing to say:


    Originally an Indian bodhisattva, her popularity has spread to southern Buddhist countries.

    Her popularity, however, peaks in Nepal where she has a strong following among the Buddhist Newars of the Kathmandu Valley and is thus a central figure in Newar Buddhism.

    She is named Shiskar Apa in Lahul and Spiti. She is related to Hindu great goddess Lakshmi, and her Sanskrit name Vasundhara indicates she is the source of the eight “bountiful Vasus.”

    Therefore, according to the epic Mahabharat, she is the bounty that is the waters of the river Ganges—the goddess, Ganga whose origin is the snows of the Himalayas.


    Although it is not spelled out, the Vasus and the Ganges are highly occult symbols, which also correspond to the Mayavic seeds of Agni and Mars--Kartikkeya, originating with the Pleiades and considering Tara as Arundhati.

    There is not another one of these or another holding the spectrum of manifestation, to which, Marici is like a pure or homogeneous source and the realization of such purity by manifested beings.


    The Boar of Bhu and those of Marici cannot be mere coincidence.

    Ideally in the Buddhist realm, the active agent of such tantric processes is Vajravarahi. Her main attribute should probably be described as From Hell to the Sun. Vasudhara followed by Varuni and Vairocani establish her; Marici plunders or acquires her.

    It is Jewel Family Vajravarahi who is the special precursor to Chakrasamvara, similar to how Karma Family Vajrasrnkala is a special precursor to Hevajra.

    Vajravarahi and Jnanadakini, however, are not quite a part of the background cosmic flux, so much as they are immanent mindstreams having lines of transmission.

    In Female Founders, Vajravati and Siddharajni are mentioned side-by-side. The second of these was perhaps an office or title or Tulku in India occupied by someone who was effectively White Guhyajnana Dakini. The last known one of these was profoundly influential to Rechung:

    When Rechungpa first met Siddharajñi, her powerful presence
    made his hair stand on end. He trembled, wept, and threw himself
    to the ground at her feet, placing her feet on his head in a gesture
    of supreme respect.

    As to how he knew her:

    Vajravarahi [female Buddha] incarnate...,
    Mother of all Buddhas,
    Homage to you, Siddharajñi!
    You have the thirty-two signs of a Buddha.
    Your rainbow body is brilliant as a diamond.
    Bliss-bestowing woman, with every excellence,
    wearing jewels and ornaments of bone,
    You hold a flaying knife and skull cup full of nectar.
    Amid an ocean of enlightened females (dakinis),
    In a crystal meditation bower,
    On a throne of gold, silver, turquoise, coral, and pearls,
    You are our only mother, Siddharajñi!


    She may have had an ordinary appearance but:

    His purified vision revealed her to be seated in a jeweled bower, a type of canopy designed to welcome and honor a Buddha.

    She had attained revelation directly from Amitayus and so is a major source of Long Life practice, as well as a few things on Guhyajnana Dakini.

    By doing an Agni Homa, it is very close to saying an Amitayus Homa, except he would have to be conjoined with a female who is the Element of Fire, which he, so to speak, is the stable awareness of.

    In the Homa, if he is a trigger to Annapurna, who, at least in the Nepalese context, might be thought of as the wife of Vishnu, the Homa is really the Yoga of Agni Vaisvanara, Vishnu Man, which again is not quite like saying "there is this powerful magical element", but, has to do with the scattered pieces and layers of shadow and all the adjustments necessary to our aura in order for the power and awareness to Expand Fully.



    However, to the topic consort of Ganesh, Mandalas Life admits there is considerable controversy as to exactly who, when, and how.






    They are a lot more standard with Tara, although they have an interesting statement on "Green Tara", who is found anywhere from dark green to yellowish to blue:

    She is shown with a benevolent countenance seated upon a white moon disk which is associated with special restorative nectar associated with the naval chakra center. In Buddhists, the moon symbolizes the wisdom aspect which when coupled with compassion leads to Sakyamuni Buddha’s enlightenment.

    Her association with Turquoise is along the lines of the greenish Tibetan stone:







    Most of what they call White Tara is Atisha's Seven-eyed version, but, they do have a two-eyed standing dancer:


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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I'm still trying to get the connection between nectar and the Vasudhara or Lajjia Gauri or whoever, maybe Annapurna woman and why the nectar would be the substance of a transition space. On a related note, you had said something about Cunda being associated with Muladhara? Any chance she is somewhat higher, like at the sacrum level?
    On this meditation maybe we need to ask Gopali.

    There are a few legends of the Surabhi or Kamadhanu or Wish-granting cows, along with Curd or Yogurt representing both the nebulaic infancy or nativity of star systems, along with the maturation of Luminosity in the mind during the path of wisdom.


    Quote khikhime khukhume dhadhame dhidhime dhudhume
    tatare tatare ture ture tara tara tāraya

    So this is Tara?
    Yes.

    Marici as Dipper Mother and Tara--Arundhati may help explain her cosmic role, see preceeding post.

    Quote I was once told that sometimes all the females are just Devi (as in Devi Ma), they are different, but at some level they are not.

    Agreed, which is why I have trouble with the limited vocabulary of "x is y". I mean it is one, but if she has 1008 Names, there are a lot of nuances to her, and we easily become lost.

    The core system and basic geometry are a lot more accessible and powerful than that much diversity.

    Vasudhara Dharani will do something different than Marici Dharani, and so on.

    My PC is going to force restart....

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    In having said there is a special Jewel Family Vajravarahi, as far as I can tell, this means Vajravilasini from Mahasiddha Sabara or Savaripa. It is difficult to read, but, appears to be centered on Jewel Family while having Grey Padmajalini as Dharmadhatu Vajra--Mental Object.

    It is true that the Heart of Avalokiteshvara is Guhyajnana Dakini, but they are rarely shown in union, except from a few Nyingma revealed treasures.

    However, according to He Dances, She Shakes:

    Cakrasamvara is not the only consort of Vajravarahi, she also take the less violent and
    more erotic partner, Padmanartesvara, an erotic form of Avalokitesvara, as her partner.
    He is the consort of Secret Vajravilasinl in the Guhyavajravilasinlsadhana by
    Sabara, found in the Guhyasamayasadhanamala, a thirteenth century collection of texts focusing
    around Vajravarahi and Vajrayogini.

    Sabara’s ritual text is focused almost exclusively on sexual yogas, and portrays
    Vajravilasinl in squatting ( utkuta ) posture, with her feet twelve finger-breadths apart, seated with
    her vagina clearly displayed on the peak of Padmanartesvara’s “banner” (penis) (English 89,
    418-419 ft. 176). In English’s translation Padmanartesvara makes Vajravilasinl dance with his
    penis ( guhyavajrena ). Literally, this seems to read that “with [his] penis [he makes] secret,”
    thus implying that what is secret about Secret Vajravilasinl is the lap dance she performs.

    In Vibhuticandra's Vajravilasini, she reverses Chakrasamvara.

    Vanaratna’s Vajravilasini appears as a solitary heroine, indeed no reference is made to her male
    counterpart outside of the consort practice. She appears as Vajravarahi commonly does, dancing
    in ardhaparyanika posture, with a sow face emerging from the right side of her face, holding a
    skull bowl filled with blood, and a curved knife (Tib. gri gug ). But in the consort section she is
    visualized as the secondary deity, squatting on the lap of her seated consort.

    Beyond texts, other representations of the goddess emerged in Tibetan, most distinctly,
    Vajravarahi’s bSam sdings rDorje phag mo emanation lineage, begun in the fifteenth century, of
    which the princess Chos kyi sgron ma (henceforth Chodron), was the first emanation.
    Diemberger guesses that Vanaratna probably played some role in the identification of Chodron
    as Vajravarahi, as one of his disciples was the ruler of Yar ‘brog, who compiled the biography of
    Bodong Phyogs las rnam rgyal and influenced the development of the rDorje phag mo
    reincarnation lineage. This is supported by Chodron identification as not only a form of
    Vajravarahi, but Vajravilasinl herself, as stated in her biography:

    Homage to Vajravarahi!

    Ultimate giver of pleasure to Heruka!

    I write the biography of the Vajravilasini,

    Who performs and enjoys the multiple dance.

    Like the erotic goddess she is believed to be, Chodron is understood to have engaged in
    ritual sexual practices. She is considered by many scholars to have been the consort of her lama
    Bodong Phyogs las rnam rgyal. Some passages from her biography imply this:

    “[They] had become the secret treasury of all Buddhas thanks to their extraordinary deeds of
    body, speech, mind, virtue and action for all living beings. The Female Buddha ( de bzhin gshegs
    ma ), Lady of the Universe (’ khor lo bdag ma ), dancing the dance of illusion, with its many forms
    of ritual offering, satisfied the innate bliss of being beyond duality ( gnyis tried pa). This was a
    symbol of excellence ( mchog gi rten ) and a supreme achievement of relatedness (’ brel bar byung
    ba bla na medpa)


    Sanskrit texts understand Vajravilasini to be a peaceful, erotic form of Vajravarahi, in
    union with a sexual partner. Conversely, in her Tibetan practice, as transmitted by Vanaratna,
    Vajravilasini appears in Vajravarahi’s common solitary ardhaparyanika posture, and during
    consort practice is certainly the secondary deity. Despite appearing to lose her distinctive
    characteristics, Vajravarahi in Tibet took on what could be considered to be an even more unique
    form, that of a living line of Tibetan women, the Samding Dorje Phagmos, who like many great
    Tibetan masters, trace their origins back to India, and most specifically to the princess
    Laksminkara.

    The placement of Laksminkara’s erotic verse in a Vajravarahi sadhana is apt considering
    she was a devotee of the goddess Vajravarahi and herself engaged in consort practices.

    However, beyond Laksminkara’s ties to this erotic goddess and sexual practices transfonning
    srngara rasa, she was also a proponent of nondualism, linking her to the higher rasa of
    samarasa. In this way she is reflective of many Buddhist siddha poets who focused on the
    expression of the innate ( sahaja ) awakening, which while drawing on worldly sentiments, such
    as srngara rasa, ultimately express the flavour of samarasa, for those who can see beyond their
    erotic exterior.



    In Vanaratna’s work the eighth century Indian princess Laksminkara, one of the eighty-
    four mahasiddhas (great accomplished ones), is the author of this poem found in the most erotic
    section of the practice (consort practice):

    “The graceful [deity] possessed of the precious vajra [penis enters] into the tip [of] the
    opening [of his] consort.

    From binding [the legs] in the cross-legged posture, [he enters] into the padma [vagina]
    treasure chest.

    As long as there is flavour of the Buddha’s presence, the moon [nectar] in the drop (bindu)
    coming forth.

    For that long [one] attains the highest citadel [of] Lord Buddha.”

    Laksminkara’s poem describes the posture taken by the male and female buddhas in
    sexual union. The penis, symbolically termed a vajra, meaning diamond or thunderbolt, must
    enter the tip of the vagina (San. padma, lotus) of the consort and the male must bind this with the
    mudra (seal) of a cross-legged posture ( asana ). This position is maintained for as long as the
    male partner can control the circulation of semen, called the moon, within his body. The goal of
    this practice is not only to create an erotic mood, but to experience the “flavour of the Buddha’s
    presence” that is the taste of nonduality and the possessed state of Vajravilasini and
    Cakrasamvara within the practitioners’ respective gendered bodies. My thesis explores how the
    erotic sentiment ( srngara rasa ) is transformed into the nondual taste of samarasa, which results
    in a state of possession ( avesa ) by the deities and is expressed by gendered performance.


    Laksminkara is Cinnamasta...different Mood I suppose.

    If you started with Yellow Vairocani and kept going, it seems plausible that a Yellow Vajravarahi would eventuate, or, Yellow Cinnamasta Tri-kaya Vajrayogini.

    And if we examine what happens, Padmanarttesvara is Amitabha himself, is simply a refinement of Fire in a human being, compared to Chakrasamvara, who is a mantricly-spawned Yidam. And so in Sabara's example, Varahi has made herself extra accessible.

    Further, something like that is recommended to place people on the first two or three Bhumis.

    Jewel Family is this plus Vasudhara, Vajra Tara, Prasanna, certain murtis of Pratisara, Marici, etc., the desired Fiery Tuft of Buddhism, amazing.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The universal meaning and then her personal items are listed here. Meaning number one is "Body" and her corresponding item is Root Mudra which we have also studied as Prithvi Mudra.
    The mudra she is doing which is being called the Root Mudra is also known as the Cunda mudra. It is also interesting that 'mani' here refers explicitly to a pearl.

    Quote Other Eighteen Arm deities include Samputa, Padmajala, Khandaroha, Khaganana, and Bhadrakali, who leads to the origin of Kubjika--Kamakhya Devi of Assam, the menstruating goddess or Pitha:
    This could possibly be the connection. It's hard to say.

    Quote The Pitha doing it is a pilgrim's destination, whereas in Orissa, menstruation simply has a festival. The fourth day is called Vasumati gadhua, or ceremonial bath of Bhudevi.

    So Earth is considered to menstruate as Bhu Devi--wife of Vishnu.

    But, a name of Lakshmi--Vasudhara has been attached (Vasumati Mahalakshmi). And so along with a nice Vasudhara painting they offer, they are willing to say:


    Originally an Indian bodhisattva, her popularity has spread to southern Buddhist countries.

    Her popularity, however, peaks in Nepal where she has a strong following among the Buddhist Newars of the Kathmandu Valley and is thus a central figure in Newar Buddhism.

    She is named Shiskar Apa in Lahul and Spiti. She is related to Hindu great goddess Lakshmi, and her Sanskrit name Vasundhara indicates she is the source of the eight “bountiful Vasus.”

    Therefore, according to the epic Mahabharat, she is the bounty that is the waters of the river Ganges—the goddess, Ganga whose origin is the snows of the Himalayas.
    Vasus here meaning a river or wind? In the Avatamsaka, there is a "Heatless Lake" (which is in Sanskrit the Anavatapta), from which the Ganga, the Sindhu, the Sita, and the Yakshu all flow. It seems to me to be a reference to Lake Manusanovar, near Mt. Kailash, from the surrounds (and maybe in the past a larger lake) the Ganges, the Indus (via the Sutlej), and the Brahmaputra all flow.

    The symbolism in my shaking may be related to what you have found, the Dakini who is "in charge" for this current training is Cunda, but the training focuses on 'softening' my sacrum which glows and forms a orange-golden jewel, all of which is somehow hooked up to the dream state via that transition place which is the liquidy thing. Kurukulla is also involved because of the transition place.

    Quote She is shown with a benevolent countenance seated upon a white moon disk which is associated with special restorative nectar associated with the naval chakra center. In Buddhists, the moon symbolizes the wisdom aspect which when coupled with compassion leads to Sakyamuni Buddha’s enlightenment.
    The navel chakra being in me just slightly below the navel.

    There are several centers of bliss or bliss-like in the current training. The sacrum, which I just described, a very small center at the perineum, a large oval at my dantian/navel, the root of my tongue, and the space from my forehead back and up into my head almost to the crown where the transition state comes from by turning inside out there. But the sequences end with pressing downward from sacrum to perineum related to the liquid and to this squatting form.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote There are a few legends of the Surabhi or Kamadhanu or Wish-granting cows, along with Curd or Yogurt representing both the nebulaic infancy or nativity of star systems, along with the maturation of Luminosity in the mind during the path of wisdom.
    The place where the transition state and its liquid start is directly above the plane above my palate towards my forehead and it streams initially upward towards my crown (but I never feel it actually get there) before it twists inside out and the state forms. So it would be directly above the place where Mandarava sliced the clotted cream and poured it down on me that time.

    Interesting that cream or yogurt is connected with the birth of stars.

    I have the "Professional" version of Windows, so I can schedule the restarts -- the only reason I bought the upgrade.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote However, beyond Laksminkara’s ties to this erotic goddess and sexual practices transforming srngara rasa, she was also a proponent of nondualism, linking her to the higher rasa of samarasa. In this way she is reflective of many Buddhist siddha poets who focused on the expression of the innate ( sahaja ) awakening, which while drawing on worldly sentiments, such as srngara rasa, ultimately express the flavour of samarasa, for those who can see beyond their erotic exterior.
    I would have said that one could see samarasa in srngara rasa, not beyond it. I do not understand what is so lacking in nondualism in the latter, it kind of depends on the situation. Ultimately, nondualism is the without self thusness no matter how it is achieved. To think otherwise just reveals one's own difficulties with the topic.

    Quote The goal of this practice is not only to create an erotic mood, but to experience the “flavour of the Buddha’s presence” that is the taste of nonduality and the possessed state of Vajravilasini and Cakrasamvara within the practitioners’ respective gendered bodies.
    But it is the so-called "erotic mood" which creates the entrance into the "taste of nonduality" and the possessed state. At least in my shaking experience, the possessed state minus the erotic mood is a state without the necessary energy to "taste" it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The mudra she is doing which is being called the Root Mudra is also known as the Cunda mudra. It is also interesting that 'mani' here refers explicitly to a pearl.
    Yes, exactly.

    A Naga Pearl, or a Nidhi, a secret treasure found within through those water and earth shrouds.

    Root, Mula, Cunda, Prithvi are all intended to mean mainly the same Mudra.

    I would argue Cunda is *not* a way of activating your root chakra today by the use of the letter, whichever one it is, and so on. She is rather a Noumenal experience related to a male seed of Vajrasattva nature. And so her common picture is a simple form with a Bowl, something like an Inverted Parasol, which, according to the teaching, can be evolved into a sacred condition called Bharati or The Vessel, something like a holy grail, with the intent of concocting and ingesting one's Soma--Varuni and processing it through the aura until it enters this Bharati.

    Quote Other Eighteen Arm deities include Samputa, Padmajala, Khandaroha, Khaganana, and Bhadrakali...


    Vasus here meaning a river or wind?
    If need be. They have their root elemental meanings as well as their distributed ones.

    Agni is distributed in various Vahnis like Sati is distributed in various Pithas and Nada into the Nadis--Rivers, and Vasus are reflected across various planes until emerging as material compounded elements.

    As far as the Eighteen Arm stature, it is supposed to be somewhat definitive within its own genre. It cannot promise to explain revealed treasures and other things like that. It is considered the "worshipable" (sadhana) form of a deity that is able to display a Saha or Universal 1,000 Arm form.

    Considering the Blossoming of deity forms to display a liberation from subtle barriers, then, it is accurate to say that a Six Arm form is really a profound increase from all previous stages of visualization. They appear to require an opening and stability of the secret heart center and in the case of Vajra Family then they have this meaning governing them as a whole.

    As this is similar to Six Families, then, the first common product with Nine Moods is Eighteen. At that point, you have a trinity of sixes and the upper/lower winds of the moods.



    Quote The symbolism in my shaking may be related to what you have found, the Dakini who is "in charge" for this current training is Cunda, but the training focuses on 'softening' my sacrum which glows and forms a orange-golden jewel, all of which is somehow hooked up to the dream state via that transition place which is the liquidy thing. Kurukulla is also involved because of the transition place.

    The sacrum is usually considered Svadisthana Chakra, but, in Buddhism, Svadisthana is a Noumenal Stage in the Pancha Krama or Explanation of Abhisambodhi.

    Generally it will be classed as co-eval with Dream Yoga, although I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the specific "womb" you are describing, I would then say it comes from other places.

    Having also said with respect to Om-like Curds:

    "directly above the plane above my palate towards my forehead and it streams initially upward towards my crown (but I never feel it actually get there) before it twists inside out and the state forms"

    I would say the Orange or Golden Jewel is the actual source and type of nectar which we are wanting to aim more explicitly into the Brahmarandra and it is this which is the First Joy, which learns a controlled descent and accumulation, until filling The Vessel, Bharati.

    The Orange is the Admixture of Heat which in the tantric scheme is shown with the use of Agni Kunda, and then, it is this very stuff which is submitted for Rasa. You use it as a Taste Offering to a Devi such as Vetali and she will give you an honest opinion if you are doing well. That is what I mean by the Triangle of Inverted Stupa which is conjoined internally to Ghasmari which is Power of Food which is Seven Secrets of Samputa.

    In the public Homa, we see there is a rule that Crow does have Control of Food. You can have a bit of yogurt and bread and that's it until Crow takes the Offering.

    In actual use, they usually break the rule and say "or any other bird or animal", and then the feast is not really like a Last Supper but is usually a distribution of food packages for families to take home.

    As an Inner Homa, Crow Face Dakini is Pratyahara, a beginning or Control of Food i. e., the senses.

    And so if you see the motivation in having a Rasa-judging goddess, yes, without the Srngara ingredient we can be sure it's not worth a try--and then accumulated with that, this type of Devi can ripen us for a long time.


    Quote But the sequences end with pressing downward from sacrum to perineum related to the liquid and to this squatting form.
    Allright.

    Let us look at the momentum of Locana with respect to the tantras.

    In her single-follower and default mode she is usually white and equal to Vairocana and is centered, and represents Buddha Eye which, roughly, is a magical way of seeing according to Buddha Dharma and not just the energy of the chakra.

    She then takes a Gold form and moves out to take over Earth Element. Roughly, the philosophy of Prajnaparamita has taken over one's body.

    At this time we are interested in making a Nirmana or Navel Chakra which is also Gold.

    If we become aware of Jewel Family, they are Yellow, such as lemon yellow.

    Eventually, this Jewel Family which, perhaps, now, is the downward wind of the perineum, is going to be pulled up into the Golden or Orange Center and then the natures of deities are going to shift and it will be the Triangle.

    This power will exalt Tara in Jewel Family and emanate Prasanna which is Amrita Locana. And so here you have Eka or Sama Rasa which clearly involves Srngara and must have a few other things. And so if Vilasini "is" sex, but, then she also has an Ekavira, then this Prasanna must be like an evolute from Ekavira Vilasini, has the One Taste along with erotic mood, and yet to be considered ultimate, it would require disgust, and so on, and the fullest arcane manifestation of them all appears to be Picuva Marici. Prasanna is like the establishment of a stable flow of orange nectar such that our preparatory process can be truncated and we could move to Completion Stage swiftly.

    Vasudhara as Sita Vaideha has a Luminous Gold form which is immune to Fire. And so the actual tantric visualization is going to sweep the Nirmana Golden Ground with the Red activity of Fire, Agni Kunda. The orange becomes "boiled" and the intention of Pranayama is to fine-tune its aim. Sita is Maya and her sister Urmila is Nidra or Deep Sleep including Dream.

    Here again, from the molten gold glow, we will want a kind of "bouncing off, re-twisting" from the crown aperture--except with this, we will have burned the Tathagatas and incinerated the Prajnas, which begins a Suksma Yoga cycle.

    Cunda is perhaps the main work horse here, with there also being a need to "soften" which is Mrdu and, I believe, may also have its specific Krama. In the most general sense, the center is being un-knotted by possibly three kinds of Tara.

    If it works to think of Nirmana Chakra as Svadisthana, that is fine. As for the energy in this area, it sounds much like the Samvarodaya version of Bandhuka Orange Vairocani, no?

    If Cunda is operating and it makes the orange glow, you can see how this goes with Rasa theory, and why it is around the top end of the various pathways of Generation Stage, and why I, personally, admire Vetali in Dakini Jala because she is, if anything, the opposite of corpse-like, and much more akin to a Mood.

    If the tantric Gauris--Sampattis--are related to Moods, they are related to Winds, and so the conceptual deities and the physiology are now the same at this rank.

    Necessary vehicle for the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment or Vajraraudris or a cultivation of pleasant winds, which reveal Buddha's Wisdom.
    Last edited by shaberon; 18th March 2021 at 03:43.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Here are a few more good paraphrases from the Vajravilasini thesis. What I am able to get from it is that Dakini Jala is actually behind the dancing--Shaking rituals. However in India it was probably true that in many cases a Ganacakra was orgiastic, these modern and more public rituals use sexual energy without sex. Well, these are not set up in graveyards using code, it is relatively normal.

    Rasa theory meets the Fourth Joy:

    blissful, innate state of sahaja, because it is called the
    anupamarasasvadana, “taste of liberation,”

    Classically, there were Eight Moods until Abhinavagupta added Santi. However, this may become contradictory with their own research which leads to Dakini Jala. In Hindu terms there is:

    samarasya “sameness of flavour” as being the resulting taste of
    possession {samavesa) by Siva in one’s own body. Abhinavagupta advocated a
    shift away from an “appetitive style of perception” in which things are seen as existing outside of
    your consciousness, to an “aesthetic mode of awareness” in which objects are perceived as
    existing inside your consciousness. This shift results in the senses and the body itself to become
    divinized. For him the deity was the realization of nonduality by the
    devotee.

    The experience of samarasa as a form of divine possession ( samavesa ), in tantric Buddhism, is cultivated in the
    practice of deity yoga, when one visualizes oneself as having an awakened body, speech and mentality.

    Increased penetrability is understood in India to occur through the transference of sakti (female power). Through sexual intercourse, women can share with their husbands their sakti, their ability to be penetrated, that can allow men to become possessed during ritual also.

    Once in a state of possession, the ritual participant cannot be said to have his or her own
    agency, but a modified form of power, which merges the identity of the human and divine
    together. In Buddhism these merged identities are referred to as the human commitment being
    (samayasattva) with the divine wisdom being (jnanasattva ). During possession sakti acts as the
    electrical current making the divine and human beings together receptive to one another and
    ultimately merge.

    Because women naturally possess more sakti, women and men’s possessions are expressed differently.

    One of the oldest recordings of Rasa theory is:

    Taittirrya Upanisad identified “ sat (being), the ultimate reality in the universe, with rasa, adding further that when
    one attains this essence (rasa) one becomes blissful (anandi)".

    As for Peace:

    Santa , in its ability to be formed from the full spectrum of rasas, may relate to Buddhist
    perspectives of samarasa. Furthennore, santa is described as not only a rasa but a rasasvada,
    an enjoyment of aesthetic tasting, which is a “a temporary aesthetic glimpse” into one’s pure
    divine self ( atma-sva-rupa ). Sahaja, which is described as having one
    taste {samarasa) is also described as a rasasvada, as the
    anupamarasasvadana, literally “the most excellent experience of tasting”.


    Although rasa theory never gained the prominence in Tibet that it had in India, it did become influential, largely
    through Sakya Pandita (Sapan) (1182-1251), the Great Scholar of the Sakya school. It was in Sapan’s time that the
    Tibetan elites adopted kavya “as the model of refined literary expression”.



    “the aestheticization of the esoteric scriptures,” their description in terms of poetic sentiments, occurs
    in the very first yogini tantra, Amoghavajra’s Sarvabuddhasamayoga [Dakini Jala], which employs the nine rasas of Sanskrit literature in its message ".

    The anubhavas are the four progressive stages of contact: eye-contact, smiles, bodily-contact and sexual embrace, which are correlated to the four tantric systems. The vyabhicaribhavas are the increasing degrees of pleasure
    experienced from the four joys: ananda “bliss,” paramananda “supreme bliss,” viramananda
    “bliss of cessation,” and sahajananda “innate bliss.”

    In the VajravilasinTsadhanastavah, VajravilasinI is described as a lotus woman. Lotus
    here denotes the entire female body, not only the genitals. Of the four types of consorts given in
    the Kama Sutra the padmini, lotus woman, is considered to be most desirable, the pinnacle of
    feminine beauty. According to the Kama Sutra, a padmini has a face like a full moon, is doe
    eyed, has firm, full and lofty breasts, has three folds of good fortune across her navel, has
    genitalia which resembles an opening lotus bud and smells like a lotus.

    This classification of women carried over into Buddhism, where this type of partner is also
    especially prized. For instance, the padmini consort is described in the Samvarodaya tantra, an
    early Cakrasamvara text and the Vajravilasinistotram also refers to
    VajravilasinI as a lotus woman, because the smell of her (vagina), has a “perfect lotus scent”
    which is “full of compassion and brings welfare to this world” (verse 16).

    In Hindu literature, tantric consorts are often referred to as dutis “female messengers.”

    Of Vilasini, it says:

    Oh! Your moon face is bitten by Heruka as Rahu,

    Oh! With a smile you produce the mantra Hum Hum.

    Sahara’s Guhyavajravilasini sadhana
    devotes twelve verses to the nine kinds of sex play ( navapuspi ) which are done to induce the
    highest innate bliss of sahaja (sahaj asaktacetasah ) in order that the female consort, possessed of
    the goddess, should tremble from the sex play performed by the yogin.


    More on Vilasini:

    She’s eaten her husband,
    relished the innate

    destroyed attachment and detachment;

    seated by her husband,
    mind destroyed,

    the yogini appears before me.


    And according to Kamakhya's names:

    Chandi: She Who Tears Apart Thought


    Naro says:


    Thought is the lord,

    Spaciousness the lady;

    Day and night they’re joined

    in the innate


    The Sarvabuddhasamayogadakinijalasamvara is a very earlier Cakrasamvara tantra, which uniquely
    discusses rasa leading to avesa states that correspond to different buddhas.

    As to whether Nine Planets or Grahas may correspon to Moods:

    By the late Vedic period, derivatives from the root grh “to seize,” especially graham, indicate some forms of
    possession. Related to grahana is the term bhoga which covers both the notions of “feeding one”
    and “sexual enjoyment.” Between a divine yogini and a human male grahana indicates a possession where she
    tastes him, by either directly preying on him or taking him as her sexual partner, leading to a sam avesa “mutual
    possession”. White claims that the female Seizers ( grabs ) are the most direct forerunners of the
    Yoginis of the later Kaula and Tantric traditions.

    Within the context of Tibetan tantric ritual, possession is thought not to occur as an overt
    “take over” by the deity, a full possession in which their identities were supplanted by the
    deity’s, as occurs for oracles, but as a self-induced state that the practitioners
    themselves worked to achieve. Practitioners work from the time they receive their daily tantric
    vows ( samayas ) to achieve an identity of themselves which is equal to the deity, a samayasattva
    “pledge being.” Through visualizing their body as the deity’s they attain the fonn of their
    buddha, through contemplating nonduality they achieve the mind of a buddha, and through
    reciting the mantras of the deity they obtain the speech of a buddha. This sense of
    self connected to their tantric vows is their samayasattva and it is this identity that becomes
    possessed by the buddha’s jnanasattva, the “wisdom being” of the buddha, the latent potential of
    all beings to attain awakening.


    Although there is a significant dearth of direct references in Buddhist tantras connecting
    avesa states to rasas, there is one eighth century early yoginl tantra which does just this. This
    Buddhist text, extant now only in Tibetan, may be the earliest yoginl tantra, according to Gray.
    The Sarvabuddhasamayoga dakinijalasamvara describes how in ritual the nine
    rasas states can lead beyond the creation of sentiments to avesa. In this tantra male buddhas
    manifest as the nine rasas and lead to different states of avesa. Smith has discovered no other
    Hindu or Buddhist tantric text which links rasas with meditations on specific deities, in order to
    induce avesa. The text claims that through endowment with srngara rasa and so forth, “dancing
    with the various gestures ( mudras ), and uniting oneself with all, one will achieve all avesa states”.
    This tantra links rasa and avesa states in Buddhist tantric practice and implies that
    just as there is a diversity of rasas, so too is there a diversity of ways in which avesa can be
    expressed, which are all valid means of conveying the bodily presence of different buddhas
    during ritual."

    The correspondences given are:

    Srngara corresponds to Vajrasattva, vira to Hero Tathagata, karuna to Vajradhara, hasya to Lokesvara, raudra to
    Vajrasurya, bhayanaka to Vajrarudra, bibhatsa to Sakyamuni, adbhuta to Arali and santa to Buddha.

    While Bhattacharya explains part of the use of multiple deities as:

    Sunya manifests in different forms the nine "Rasas" or dramatic sentiments. For instance, Sunya will be Khadiravani or Lokanatha when benign (Karuna), Marici when Heroic (Vira), Vighnantaka, Heruka or Mahakala when awe-inpiring (Bhaya), Aparajita when wrathful (Raudra), Vajracarcika in its moments of disgust and loathsomeness (Blbhatsa), Prajnaparamita when peaceful (Santa), and so on.

    Mood is not really the same as appearance, for example, Mahacinakrama Tara looks awe-inspiring and terrible, but she is in an intensely pleasant mood.


    Marici would be the outstanding example, here in a statement which hits at her artist-defying Blue middle face:

    Marlcipicuva displays the sentiments of Srngara, Vira, and Harsa in one of her faces, which is of the colour of Jambunada (gold). In the middle face which is of the colour of the Indranlla gem, the sentiments of Bhaya, Bibhatsa, and Raudra are displayed; and in the third face of crystal colour, the sentiments of Karuna, Adbhuta and santa appear.

    A face evidently is allowed to show multiple things, as must be inferred from these less-specific examples:

    Reddish White Three Face Six Arm Vajradhara of NSP's Vajrasattva mandala dances the Tandava dance exhibiting the
    nine dramatic sentiments. Four Face Twelve Arm Chakrasamvara als has all nine.


    The thesis on the Four Mudras is:

    The first is the karma mudra “action seal” a flesh-and-blood woman, the second, the
    jnana mudra “gnosis seal” (also known as the dharma mudra , “dhanna seal”) is a visualization,
    and the third is mahamudra “great seal” defined by Roger R. Jackson as the “nondual
    contemplation of the nature of reality”. Mahamudra is not just a type of consort, but a
    kind of action, a sexual dance, and therefore it will be discussed later.
    The samayamudra “commitment seal” although it is not as frequently referenced by Munidatta in his commentary on the Caryagitas. This mudra is described in the Caturmudraniscaya as “a flashing-forth for the good of living beings of the Vajradhara in the form of Heruka”. This is found in the Advayavajrasamgraha [Maitri].

    The visualized jnana mudra is visualized as precisely the central channel of the avadhuti.

    Although the jnana mudra may be a visualization, the employment of this seal is still tied to the
    somatic experience of the inner body, the choreographed movement of the bodhicittas that leads
    to shaking.


    Similar to Laughter as mentioned for Hundred Syllable mantra:

    Viravajra is more specific and elaborates on the process of mantra-nyasa, the laying down of seed syllables to
    prevent ejaculation, explaining that the “wind is diverted upwards by the seal of laughter,” the eight seed syllables
    beginning with the letter h.


    During the wisdom-knowledge consecration, under the guru’s guidance, the neophyte in
    turn engages with the female partner in ritual union. This consecration further prepares the
    neophyte for the completion stage practices that he will engage in during sadhana practice.
    Consecration is given before the practitioner can begin to undergo consort practice, therefore,
    abhiseka is the practitioner’s first encounter with sexual practice, whether performed physically
    or mentally. Because the completion stage practice of sexual union is the focus of the third
    consecration it is often a euphemism for completion stage practices, especially those involving
    sex

    After this the mandala is taken down ( mandalaropanavidhi ) and a fire sacrifice is performed: “[T]he guru’s wife,
    the sponsor’s wife, and the next four most senior women pupils come dressed as the six yoginis and sit around the
    fire. Each is given a skull-bowl with a different Tantric mixture (four types of rice beer, spirits with egg, and so on).
    Their husbands stand behind them holding alcohol flasks. The women close their eyes and shake, possessed. They
    flick the alcohol with the ring finger of the left hand into the fire 108 times”. Then they return to their
    own places, and the concluding rites are performed. This rite is rich in sexual motifs. The fire ritual
    itself is understood to be a parallel to sexual union and the male transfer of transgressive fluid to the female via their
    left ring finger has deep sexual symbolism. The ring finger is the symbolic clitoris, the alcohol is the male sexual
    fluid, and the fire is the womb where this fluid is sprayed into.

    Sarvabuddhasamayogadakinijalasaimvara claims that dance endowment with rasa is the vehicle towards “all avesa
    states”.



    From the snippets, I get two things, one being that Dakini Jala is a better shorthand for the whole name of the thing, and, it is probably the debut and perhaps the prime example of Rasa and Dance in relation to Buddhas.

    It finishes with a translation of Vanaratna's Two-faced Varahi Vilasini.

    This is very substantial and is a Vajrayogini that is 2/3 of Cinnamasta.

    It does not explicitly explain itself, but, it uses Emptiness Mantra and Armor Deities and moves to the Triangle with a Red Flower Offering to Vajradhara, as is done for Bharati, or by Marici.

    It is pretty much an exact parallel of the precursor Yoga sadhana I have designed, meaning I have looked for the closest corresponding way to do this without using Vajravarahi.

    Interestingly you cover the skullcup with a mirror (cf. Manas--Buddhi mirror) and pour red powder on that, into which syllables are inscribed. It owes to the pure syllable A and then uses Ha above and Vam below. You also use Four Joy Swirls in this.

    You face West when Hooking her from Akanistha.

    She is red due to accumulation of wholesomeness from the sun; The collection of light rays [which is] the crescent knife
    [Held] in the right hand pointing upwards explains what it is (Chandra Hassoja), and, in this form, she is menstruating a river of blood. After its description, she identifies with Vam in the navel.

    The next Hooking describes a different mudra:

    the complete retinues of the Bhagavati, encircled by all heroes and heroines of the Mahadevis, the visually praiseworthy
    dakinis of radiant light freed from the concept of self, by proclaiming the sound Phem with its accompanying mudra.

    Arising from the palm of the hand of [one’s] self-identification,

    The middle fingers are pointed together,

    The thumbs [and] the other fingers [in] Amrita mudra ( ksepana ),

    Making the blazing mudra as if a flame.

    Another round of Offerings is presented, called "experiencing one's entry into the depth of open space".

    It uses three kinds of Water, and then the Five Offerings ending on Food, calling Lamp, "illumination of the precious Tara".


    You sing a few things to her, including:


    Having been freed, it is freed from bonds of hair half tied in a knot

    Severing the delusion of thought and the sun nadi (right vein),

    The crescent knife owing to sharpness itself, in the right hand,

    [Removes] attachment [to] the moon nadi (left vein), and

    The skull filled with blood in the left hand is the nature of bodhicitta.

    Next to beautiful path of dhuti, bodhicitta.

    The ascending khatamga

    To the magnanimous lady contextually linked to “khatamga ”

    Bow [to her], represented by the hanging banner.




    Then, rest in the thought that focuses on the mental one-pointedness that is steadied by the fast
    spinning, in the manner of a potter’s wheel, of the white colored joy swirls leftward, in the very
    direction of the face of the swine. Regarding that, Clear meditation states:

    The red triangular phenomena source dwelling in the centre of the principal phenomena source,
    [is] really framed like the mandala of sindhura [powder]. Also as before, rest in the same mental
    one-pointedness on the quickly [rotating] circles. Then, from having bound the path of the
    raksasah (vicious demon), from the perspective of the downward moving (wind), the mind is
    made to focus singlepointedly on the rotation in the remaining joy swirls, which are above,
    owing to the upward moving wind. What is being expounded?

    “From applying oneself all day long or throughout the four periods [of the night],

    Whosoever makes the action of turning over the earth with [one’s] mouth (being a pig)
    [their] practice,

    Even [if done] by Visnu, Indra [or] Brahma,

    Will be transformed into the conqueror from embracing the victorious bliss,

    Whosoever cultivates the pig-face [of Varahi], together with the cakra, [one’s] practice...



    Nearness of Pranayama to Lotus Family:


    In the padma that comes from the mouth,

    The tantric path of entering the padma dhuti.

    Once again the lotus appears from the mouth,

    This is the defining characteristics of recitation.

    Here, what is explained is that which becomes beneficial.



    The main tantric "act" of burning the Families is masked as Torma Offerings:

    Perceiving the samaya
    substance, completely mixed by the fire fanned by the wind and blessed by the ten seed syllables
    as if the color of the rising sun, perceive a khatamga facing downward produced from the nectar
    arising from the

    syllable Hum suspended above. [Then because the khatamga is] dissolving together with the
    steam below the liquid is mixed, turned to the color of mercury, natural cool it should now be
    considered the nectar of siddhi. Alt (vowels) and Kali (consonants) having completely
    transformed on top of that [nectar] from perceiving the three syllables Om Ah Hum, by the
    brilliance of those [syllables], summon the nectar of all the heroes and heroines of the Mahadevis
    of the ten directions. Then enter properly [into comprehending] the three syllables and from
    thinking of dissolving the syllable Om and so forth in an orderly way, one should make the
    blessing of only the three syllables.

    The fact it is partially hinted at, and mainly orally taught, is confessed:

    That the ordinary torma as the very root mantra of the Bhagavati is the secret instruction is well-
    known.


    So that is why we are doing "this", but, broken down, slower, and more detailed, without the personal intercession of Varahi.


    There is a Dharani and Vajravarahi Hundred Syllable mantra.

    Then a section on Tummo--Candali.

    It is quite subtle and difficult but is clear about ablutions to Vajravarahi while experiencing a stream of nectar.

    It refers to Transference and Sleep being like Death and:

    He takes great bliss as if food through the yoga of sleeping


    Then it has Prabhasvara Yoga or the Dissolutions:

    From single-pointed
    meditation, smoke is the first form and the appearance like a mirage is the second. The form of a
    fire-fly is the third A blazing lamp is the fourth, the fifth is the brilliance free of discursive
    thought, [which] appear like an eternally unobstructed sky.

    The siddhi of mahamudra is supreme because [one] has acquired the succession of the signs in
    that manner, in achieving non-doubt, removing fear, [by] means of single-pointed [meditation
    one] must overcome [doubt and fear]. The spontaneity of the natural act of giving is the
    wholesome act of removing suffering is the causal tummo. Because that alone is the nature of
    wholesomeness, which is unchanging, by the firmness of that very yogic practice being linked
    with the upward ascending from the jewel.

    “The lamp in the vessel of meditation,

    Completely fills the midst of water [with light],

    When [the water] enters into the vessel which is its home,

    Regard the water as trickling upwards.”

    This is only a parable of what is to be known.


    As Marici multiples pigs:

    may all beings become a Varahi.



    So it summarizes the Six Dharmas of Naro in a few paragraphs; but it is the same as Dakini Jala Rahasya, in speaking of Five Dissolutions after Five Offerings ending in Food which were your transport into Space. That is still not quite the highest iteration of tantra, but, it is the occult entrance to it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The sacrum is usually considered Svadisthana Chakra, but, in Buddhism, Svadisthana is a Noumenal Stage in the Pancha Krama or Explanation of Abhisambodhi.

    Generally it will be classed as co-eval with Dream Yoga, although I am not sure if anyone has mentioned the specific "womb" you are describing, I would then say it comes from other places.
    But it did turn out that the reference for Cunda was to Mula Mudra not Muladhara Chakra. The Svadisthana Chakra is certainly the (nearly) same location, on me the chakra is slightly higher, this is the actual extent of bone between the two halves of the pelvis.

    Quote Let us look at the momentum of Locana with respect to the tantras.

    In her single-follower and default mode she is usually white and equal to Vairocana and is centered, and represents Buddha Eye which, roughly, is a magical way of seeing according to Buddha Dharma and not just the energy of the chakra.

    She then takes a Gold form and moves out to take over Earth Element. Roughly, the philosophy of Prajnaparamita has taken over one's body.
    I'm reading this and thinking of during my shaking how close the Prajnaparamita reversion of Cunda's identification is to the identification of Locana, and while thinking about what you have said, it occurs to me I do not really know what color Prajnaparamita is when identifying. The reversion so focuses me on the centerline that I could only sort of tell you "what she feels like inside".

    Quote Eventually, this Jewel Family which, perhaps, now, is the downward wind of the perineum, is going to be pulled up into the Golden or Orange Center and then the natures of deities are going to shift and it will be the Triangle.
    The jewel forms over the front or in front of the sacrum. The sacrum itself glows a fairly bright white with black highlights like the color of the moon when it is high in the sky on a clear night.
    Quote If it works to think of Nirmana Chakra as Svadisthana, that is fine. As for the energy in this area, it sounds much like the Samvarodaya version of Bandhuka Orange Vairocani, no?

    If Cunda is operating and it makes the orange glow, you can see how this goes with Rasa theory, and why it is around the top end of the various pathways of Generation Stage, and why I, personally, admire Vetali in Dakini Jala because she is, if anything, the opposite of corpse-like, and much more akin to a Mood.
    Svadisthana is definitely how this is working and could be what we discussed as the Nirmana Chakra. The Rasa theory from the Vilasini stuff seems comfortable with this. There has to be a center below where this jewel is because it feels distinct, and the proper combination of the movements at the sacrum and those higher up -- especially the transition place up in my head but also my throat and chest -- causes a massive shaking that causes disintegration (a sort of melting feeling with loss of self), or just puts me straight into dream space.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Dakini Jala is actually behind the dancing--Shaking rituals. However in India it was probably true that in many cases a Ganacakra was orgiastic, these modern and more public rituals use sexual energy without sex. Well, these are not set up in graveyards using code, it is relatively normal.
    The folk history seems to be that the 'morality' overlay that made the original less acceptable came in from the outside in various invasions. Not that it changes the way people perceive things nowadays at all.

    Quote samarasya “sameness of flavour” as being the resulting taste of possession {samavesa) by Siva in one’s own body. Abhinavagupta advocated a shift away from an “appetitive style of perception” in which things are seen as existing outside of your consciousness, to an “aesthetic mode of awareness” in which objects are perceived as
    existing inside your consciousness. This shift results in the senses and the body itself to become divinized. For him the deity was the realization of nonduality by the
    devotee.
    The experience of samarasa as a form of divine possession ( samavesa ), in tantric Buddhism, is cultivated in the practice of deity yoga, when one visualizes oneself as having an awakened body, speech and mentality.

    Increased penetrability is understood in India to occur through the transference of sakti (female power). Through sexual intercourse, women can share with their husbands their sakti, their ability to be penetrated, that can allow men to become possessed during ritual also.

    Once in a state of possession, the ritual participant cannot be said to have his or her own agency, but a modified form of power, which merges the identity of the human and divine together. In Buddhism these merged identities are referred to as the human commitment being (samayasattva) with the divine wisdom being (jnanasattva ). During possession sakti acts as the electrical current making the divine and human beings together receptive to one another and ultimately merge.

    Because women naturally possess more sakti, women and men’s possessions are expressed differently.
    So some things that stand out here: samarasya is the feminine of samarasa.

    As well, the penetrability thing is somewhat significant. The shaman quality (regardless of the tradition) is the ability to be 'inhabited' or 'infused' or 'possessed' by a female goddess. For this reason, there are arguments as to whether historically, there were more women shamans than men, although in some societies that is not true. So there is a more natural innate ability ("women possess more shakti than men") but not a sole ability. The merging of the samayasattva with the jnanasattva seems important.

    Quote Sarvabuddhasamayogadakinijalasaimvara claims that dance endowment with rasa is the vehicle towards “all avesa states”.
    I'm not surprised. No matter how 'possessed' and 'orgiastic' a movement is at some point it all still feels like a kind of dance, like participating in a cosmic dance.

    Quote “From applying oneself all day long or throughout the four periods [of the night],

    Whosoever makes the action of turning over the earth with [one’s] mouth (being a pig)
    [their] practice,

    Even [if done] by Visnu, Indra [or] Brahma,

    Will be transformed into the conqueror from embracing the victorious bliss,

    Whosoever cultivates the pig-face [of Varahi], together with the cakra, [one’s] practice...
    Finally. The significance of the pig face. Nothing to do with ignorance, everything to do with the turning over of the soil in the act of creation. Pigs, even now, are recognized as natural ground tillers (I didn't know this, I looked it up after reading your quote and was pleasantly surprised). The pigs are a symbol with these goddesses of the connection between their fertility and the fertility of the earth or of the cosmos.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    But it did turn out that the reference for Cunda was to Mula Mudra not Muladhara Chakra. The Svadisthana Chakra is certainly the (nearly) same location, on me the chakra is slightly higher, this is the actual extent of bone between the two halves of the pelvis.
    Yes but--keep in mind the tantras which seem to inhere Wrathful Cunda to the base of the spine (Chakravega, etc.).

    The three lower centers are not that different and are mostly based around "the bulb". I would be less prone to say Cunda "is a chakra", but, is the Impellor or the conduct of energy through/from the lower centers generally.

    Quote I'm reading this and thinking of during my shaking how close the Prajnaparamita reversion of Cunda's identification is to the identification of Locana, and while thinking about what you have said, it occurs to me I do not really know what color Prajnaparamita is when identifying. The reversion so focuses me on the centerline that I could only sort of tell you "what she feels like inside".

    The important thing is that you have something better than a concept that they are present.

    Prajnaparamita deity is usually considered the beginning and the continuity of all tantric goddesses. The murtis in her sadhanas are the Two Arm White Sherab, and Four Arm Gold more strongly associated with her literature and found on Refuge Trees. She has nothing blue or wrathful that I know of, but is in Vajra Family, and so most strongly associated with the heart. She is mentioned in exactly this way in Vajravilasini's Tummo practice along with importance of the "top and bottom":

    The Practice of Tummo (Inner Heat)

    Being similar to that, VajravarahT, who resides in the cakra of the nirmana (navel) of the
    practitioner, [transforms]. Within the red phenomena source in the core of the padma, in the
    mandala of the lord of the sun, white Ali swirls left and Kali lacking [the symbol] Ksa swirls
    right. By turning [one’s] attention inward, there arises in the midst of the pure nature of the nine
    nadis and the forty subtle winds, the syllable Om which is the nature of candall, the downward
    moving syllable U of the three patterns that occur simultaneously having the distinction of the
    uncommon pervade all beings as their nature. Like the unwavering light [of] a butter lamp,
    undisturbed by the wind, the crescent moon dwells in the image of the syllable Vam possessing
    the tip of the bindu (creative potentiality). If one habituates [oneself in] proceeding
    uninterruptedly towards this, the wind having stopped, [one] will be become the a-samskiita
    (unconditioned) citadel. That being the case, being free of both the size and division of the moon,
    in taking [one’s] stand on this by blocking the two movements of the wind, [one] enters into the
    dhutl, containing [the vowels] Ali and [the consonants] Kali. Then, by slowly urging with the
    downward moving [wind], the path of the dhutl [which is like] a thin line, having the nature of
    tummo (candall ) will be set up from the top of the nada.

    From the mouth of Sabara, the great lord of the yogins:

    “Having bound the mouth of the raksana,

    The light rays should be properly linked.

    The syllable A of the lower chakra [which is],

    That sow will rise up.”

    It is said so.

    That line is thin like the thread of the padma because the Prajnaparamita is the nature of dhuti.
    Moreover, because the nature of wisdom (jnana ) is aroused by the fire of attachment, just like a
    bolt of lightening, the nature of radiance, [the light] bums up the cakra of dharma, enjoyment and
    great bliss. Again, by being aroused by the downward moving [wind], the 72,000 nadis are all
    completely purified. Furthermore, the syllable Ham is enjoyed by going into the cakra of great
    bliss. In a [manner] similar to the flow of oil from [a vessel with] a crack, [one] should perform
    ablutions to the Bhagavati with the stream of nectar falling uninterrupted from the middle of the
    syllable Ham. By reaching the end of the jewels of the base and the middle and top, by means of
    the stages of cakras, by means of the series of various different moments and so forth, abandon
    the discrimination of material and immaterial things. The impartiality of cognition and the
    knowable [objects] are similar to the bliss of a young maiden, [and] are naturally merely the
    nature of experiences, are beyond expression or the domain of purity. As reality, they are filled
    with elixir. By just stopping the breath in all the nadi cakras, they properly come into being as
    the great bliss which arises simultaneously with the yoga that arises as non-discursiveness. They
    possess the wisdom body (jnana-kaya ) of union. They are free of cause and effect, and
    characteristics and non-characteristics. The essence of mahamudra (great seal) is Varahi, and is
    stated by the venerable [one] of the mahasiddhis (Krsna-caryapada):

    “She cannot be described by the syllable Va,

    She is free from the characteristics of the syllable Ra,

    Because of being without origins she is the syllable Hi,

    In Sanskrit she is known as Varahi.”



    Quote Svadisthana is definitely how this is working and could be what we discussed as the Nirmana Chakra. The Rasa theory from the Vilasini stuff seems comfortable with this. There has to be a center below where this jewel is because it feels distinct, and the proper combination of the movements at the sacrum and those higher up -- especially the transition place up in my head but also my throat and chest -- causes a massive shaking that causes disintegration (a sort of melting feeling with loss of self), or just puts me straight into dream space.
    In Kundalini yoga systems, Svadisthana is orange.

    In Buddhist Candali Yoga, 85% of the time it is considered Nirmana Chakra. It is "permitted" to be Manipur, but, it will work at either of those locations.

    It has never been considered the Root Chakra, which only occurs in Candali Yoga after considerable training and experience, not just Wrathful, but Extremely Wrathful.

    As to its tantric inhabitant, Vajravarahi is the main one given. However, Samvarodaya Tantra deals with the "source" of Chakrasamvara, and installs Vajravairocani there, a Puranic power of nature. This power is mantrified as "a Vajrayogini", as Vairocani in a few stand-alone sadhanas, and then she directly proceeds as a portion of Varahi and Cinnamasta. That is why for non-initiates she seems, to me at least, as an upper boundary.

    The alignment of motions you mentioned, sounds exactly like yoga progress as I know it, aside from the fact I was unfamiliar with the shaking practice until recently.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    We have a clue what you do, and it's NOT OK!

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    As well, the penetrability thing is somewhat significant. The shaman quality (regardless of the tradition) is the ability to be 'inhabited' or 'infused' or 'possessed' by a female goddess. For this reason, there are arguments as to whether historically, there were more women shamans than men, although in some societies that is not true. So there is a more natural innate ability ("women possess more shakti than men") but not a sole ability. The merging of the samayasattva with the jnanasattva seems important.
    To us, Samayasattva and Jnanasattva is everything. That is a major aspect of Completion Stage, whereas in Yoga or Generation Stage, we are more or less trying to establish Samayasattva to begin with. This is a similar intent to "samaya beings", i. e. to say Ila is a samaya of Vasudhara, it means Vasudhara Six Arm practice will probably spit you out, if you do not go in having a bond to Ila.

    Concerning whether a male is less likely to be suitable as a divine abode, this is probably true, mostly due to psychology, rather than the body itself. The female psychology has a better chance of being harmonious enough to work right; women are sometimes said to make better snipers because they are less nervy.

    Most of the female deities like Vilasini have solo sadhanas, but it is next to impossible to find Heruka or Chakrasamvara by themselves, and, I think Hevajra is flat out defined as Union. So the male tends to be less-encompassing, whereas a female may embody both sides of Prajna--Upaya, a male is hardly ever said to be Prajna or any feminine aspect. To even try to say Vajrasattva is Androgyne takes a lot of browbeating with that non-dual definition until you forget he has any separate male half.




    Quote I'm not surprised. No matter how 'possessed' and 'orgiastic' a movement is at some point it all still feels like a kind of dance, like participating in a cosmic dance.
    It is.

    We are at risk of pop culture there, but it is probably more literally true than we imagine.

    Dance + Strong Mood is the way towards all the Families.




    Quote Finally. The significance of the pig face. Nothing to do with ignorance, everything to do with the turning over of the soil in the act of creation. Pigs, even now, are recognized as natural ground tillers (I didn't know this, I looked it up after reading your quote and was pleasantly surprised). The pigs are a symbol with these goddesses of the connection between their fertility and the fertility of the earth or of the cosmos.
    Exactly, that is why I included it--tilling with the mouth! Clearly interfaced with Earth Element. You do this while embracing Bliss and become a Jina--Conqueror. You don't ever do anything else.

    At the same time, it is said that this is not about Ignorance, it is about Vajra Ignorance, lack of knowledge of the Vajra Kaya or Subtle Body. It is this when operated wisely that is Deathless.

    One has to really do Karuna in order to get this, and, I have been whisked away, back where there is not even Mudita. Understanding and wanting to do Karuna is not what is called Accomplishment.

    I did not realize this, but, Mudra is also "Giver of Joy" from the same root as Mudita, or: mudaṃ rāti.




    The Four Mudras are similar to the Four Activities. They are used to seal "everything", including the Dream and Illusory Bodies. But the Mudras are often explained differently. Without using a specific application yet, we already know a Karmamudra means a physical consort; but there must be a substitute if one is not present.


    Whether or not one has a Karmamudra, it is desirable to gain a Jnanamudra, which is a visualized mental consort. This word has a non-Buddhist origin, as well as a Buddhist Sutra basis:

    Jñānamudrā (ज्ञानमुद्रा).—(1) name of a samādhi: Saddharmapuṇḍarīka 424.3; (2) in Mahāvyutpatti 4298—4313 is a list of compounds all ending -jñānamudrā, described in 4297 as dhāraṇī-mudrā

    The first reference is to Lotus Sutra in a section about Bodhisattvas traversing the Saha World:

    He attained the samādhis called dhvajā grakeyūra, saddharmapuṇḍarīka, vimala datta, nakṣa tra rā ja vikrīḍita, anilambha, jñānamudrā, sarva rutakauśalya, sarva- puṇyasamuccaya, prasādavatī, ṛddhi vikrīḍita, jñānolkā, vyū harāja, vimalaprabhāsa, vimalagarbha, apkṛtsna, and sūryāvarta.

    and later equates Lotus Samadhi to a Dharani.

    The second reference indicates Dharani as equal to Jnanamudras.

    In Shiva rites, it would be:

    Jñāna-mudrā with the Tryambaka-mantra



    There are different systems of all four mudras; in one example omitting Dharmamudra, for elucidation, one person used Khenpo Karthar ordered backwards:

    Mahamudra is the practice of seeing your own mind as the buddha. It straddles the border between sutra and tantra, or could be seen as the essence of both. Of course, it is what the Ganges Mahamudra is all about. Having gained confidence that one's own mind is buddha, one is fit to practice Jnanamudra, where one visualizes oneself in the form of a deity. This is the practice of the generation stage of deity meditation. When one can clearly visualize one's body as the body of the deity, one is fit to practice Samayamudra, which is the yogic practice of chandali (tummo), where one masters the inner winds, channels, and drops. And when one has fully masterd chandali has complete control over these three, one can practice Karmamudra, where one practices sexual union with a consort.



    In that view, one is "moving towards" Karmamudra, whereas the real order, being backwards, starts with that.

    A more standard version equates Samayamudra to Jnanamundra, Lama Jampa on Mahamudra:

    Also, we say there are four mudras in the Anuttara-Tantra, four seals, and they are called the samayamudra, the pledge seal, the dharmamudra the Dharma seal, the karmamudra, the action seal and the mahamudra, the great seal. These seals arise through the four paths which we are initiated into in Anuttara-Tantra. The first path is the development stage; that is the seal of the samaya, or pledge mudra. The second is the practice of the chandali (or heat yoga), the dharma seal, and the third, the initiation path is a practice lying upon the consort –either real or a wisdom consort- and that is called the karmamudra, the action seal, and then as the result of the fourth and final initiation path, there is the mahamudra, the great seal, and therefore enlightenment is realized. This is as explained by the great tantric master Naropa in his text called Nyengu Dorje Tshikang (Tib., Wylie: sNyan rgyud rdo rje’i tshig rkang), the Vajra Stanzas of the Whispered Lineage.

    So in the Anuttara, Mahamudra is what arises when you have mastered the two phases of Anuttara-Tantra practice, which are the development stage or kye-rim (Tib., Wylie: bskyed rim) when one practices the deity yoga, and the dzok-rim (Tib., Wylie: rdzogs rim) -the completion stage when you master the winds and the channels and the drops of the subtle body. Through practicing and then unifying these two stages of Vajrayana practice, the transcendental wisdom of Mahamudra arises as a result.



    Mahamudra and Sahajayana:

    The Kagyupas incorporate this word into the phrase ‘naljor shi rim’. Shi means four and rim means stage, so naljor shi rim actually means ‘the four stages of abiding naturally’. So when Gampopa uses ‘yoga’ (naljor) in the context of Mahamudra, he is approximating what Saraha called ‘sahaja’, the innate state. That is really what we’re talking about in this practice.

    Gampopa presented Mahamudra as a system of four sequential yogas (naljor):

    One-pointedness,
    Non-elaboration,
    One-taste, and
    Non-meditation.

    I’ll just repeat here that we are talking about four stages of undoing the illusions created by conceptual mind until awareness can abide in the natural state.


    Synonyms:

    the samaya mudra (Skt. samayamudrā) or the primordial wisdom mudra (Skt. jñanamudrā)


    The Mudras unite with the Four Activities depending on context--the fourth being pleasing or intoxicating (myos).


    According to Drikung in Berzhin Archives:

    As for the four seals formulated in terms of tantra, specifically its anuttarayoga class in general, tantric practitioners' relying on a transferring partner, or "messenger," – someone to help them transfer themselves to higher states of insight and realization – as an external method to bring life-force to their practice is the seal of their behavior.

    He has just called a Karmamudra a Shakti or Dhuti.



    Drigungpa has also explained the four seals in the exclusive context of practitioners of anuttarayoga tantra's complete stage. Their many pathways of practice, such as of the oral instructions for developing tummo, the inner flame, and likewise the physical exercises explained in the six practices or "yogas" of Naropa, the various branches of energy-wind practice such as holding the vase-breath, vajra-recitation and so forth, are the seal of their behavior [Karma Mudra]. By relying on these types of method, the deep awareness that arises as a blissful consciousness is the seal of their preventive measures [Dharma Mudra]. At the time when they manifest a simultaneously arising, blissful awareness, their lack of attachment to it is the seal of their close bond [Samaya Mudra]. In other words, the root of attachment is apprehending things as existing truly and inherently. The opponent for such apprehension is the discriminating awareness of the lack of true, inherent identities. Thus generating, as running together as one, a greatly blissful deep awareness and a discriminating awareness of voidness, without either of them ever quitting, is, more specifically, the seal of their close bond. Having familiarized themselves with this deep awareness that is also a blissful awareness and a discrimination of voidness, then when, without having to rely on any other external or internal circumstances, their merely focusing on voidness as an object induces by itself a greatly blissful deep awareness, its spontaneous arising is their great seal [Maha Mudra].

    It goes on to discuss this as used for penetrating points in the vajra body.


    Dharmamudra may simply mean "truth of the doctrine", similar to Dharma Speech.

    Dharmamudrā (धर्ममुद्रा) refers to the “seal of the Dharma” according to Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XIV):

    The person who thinks falls into Māra’s net,
    The person who does not think finds escape (niḥsaraṇa).
    Mental discursiveness is not the Path,
    Non-discursiveness is the seal of the Dharma (dharmamudrā)

    It is used as speech by Manjushrimitra and Mipham, who exalt it beyond the other mudras.

    It has also been called all phenomena and the paramitas and levels of Vidyadhara.


    We have a more specific use of it in one or two of the tantras somewhere; this subject as well as the Initiations tend to vary in their details as to how to practice.

    In Sadhanamala, Dharmadhatu Vagisvara embodies the Seals:

    svahṛccandre nīlahuṃjātasabījavajraṃ mahāmudrāsvabhāvaṃ, ūrṇāyāṃ pītatrāṃkāreṇa sabījaratnaṃ dharmamudrāsvabhāvaṃ, kaṇṭhe raktahrīḥkārajasabījapadmaṃ samayamudrāsvabhāvaṃ, mūrdhni haritāḥkārajasabījaviśvavajraṃ karmamudrāsvabhāvaṃ


    The way this looks backwards is similar to Maitri's system, because it starts with Sahaja or the Fourth Joy:

    they are Sahaja, the first is Karma Mudra or sexual yoga, then Dharma, Maha, and Samaya Mudras. Karma Mudra may be relevant to attain Sahaja, or, to increase Sahaja.

    And so you have to "read through them" a bit, Manjushri takes Mahamudra and applies it towards Karmamudra, but Maitri has taken this for granted and basically called Bharati or The Vessel the starting point--Karma passes through Maha Mudra on its way to becoming Samaya. Well in this case Samaya would be the Eighth Joy and the filament of Mercury has reached the crown aperture. Then you really would have a bond or be an earthly vehicle of the deity.
    Last edited by shaberon; 20th March 2021 at 07:18.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote In Kundalini yoga systems, Svadisthana is orange.

    In Buddhist Candali Yoga, 85% of the time it is considered Nirmana Chakra. It is "permitted" to be Manipur, but, it will work at either of those locations.

    It has never been considered the Root Chakra, which only occurs in Candali Yoga after considerable training and experience, not just Wrathful, but Extremely Wrathful.
    Not sure I trust that kind of "Kundalini", cannot get colors like that to associate with things, and I have heard that they are actually western colors derived from the Newtonian spectrum. I don't have these chakras changing at all, just sometimes some of them are less important and sometimes more. The sacrum in my shaking is slightly lower than the dantian, but usually a mass forms at dantian that 'hovers over' the sacrum thing.

    Quote The alignment of motions you mentioned, sounds exactly like yoga progress as I know it, aside from the fact I was unfamiliar with the shaking practice until recently.
    Even when things form as separately as they possibly can, if they do not begin to link up they don't precipitate big reactions like melting and dissolving.

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