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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote I like this part"śūlākāraṃ lalāṭaṃ tu krūrakarmaratā ca yā "
    Why? Because it's about roasting meat on a spit? Or because it's about the bad karma because of it?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    kulavidyākṣarāṇi [ ca ] ṣaḍvarṇāni bhavanti hi

    This appears to be saying
    "Wisdom handed down in the family and spelling the six colors present tense therefore."
    Seriously.
    kulavidyaksarani means 'wisdom handed down in the family'
    aksarani means 'spelling'
    sadvarani we've had before, it's 'six colors'
    bhavanti means 'present tense'
    hi means therefore or surely.

    What is this about?

    Kula is usually an accepted translation of Family, such as Kula Deva, etc., Vidya is a type of Mundane Siddhi or Knowledge that lives within mantra.

    I might almost see Aksara Rani or Letter Queen.

    Bhavanti (भवन्ति).—m.

    (-ntiḥ) Time being, the present. E. bhū to be, Unadi aff. jhic .

    --- OR ---

    Bhavantī (भवन्ती).—

    1) A virtuous wife.


    I think it is going to tell me about six letters in six colors which are Family deities, and so for instance the forms of Armor Deities are usually just their syllable, i. e. Candika is a smoky-colored Phat.


    It comes up once more around line Fifteen of Chapter Sixteen:

    kulavidyāṃ kuladevīm |


    There are Krodhas involved and there is Yoginijanah. Frequently sadhanas will use Janma = Birth, but, it is likely that is still the meaning here. However in this spelling it is recognizable also as:


    5) The world beyond Maharloka, the heaven of deified mortals.


    That would be equal to Akashic or Mental plane, whereas Mahar is an alternate name for Kama Loka and then if we read the title Maha Bharata in that sense, that is what it is about, Kama Loka.


    Anyway, Herukabhidhana's commentary then says:

    svamudrā sitavarṇādi varṇo mṛṇālagauratvādi | tābhyāṃ saṃkulāḥ sambaddhāḥ |

    Mrnala probably means Padma, i. e. you open a white lotus and you become Chained to all of the Kulas. Or, white color "di" and other colors--Varno.

    What brings six colors into the "present tense" or bhavanti is:

    kulavidyākṣarāṇi ceti | kulaṃ sādhakastasya vidyāstā evākṣarāṇi vajrāṇi dṛḍhādhimokṣatvād yoginījanāḥ | ete cāvicalitarupā devyo bhavantītibhāvaḥ |

    something along the lines of

    Eva--Aksara--Rani Vajrani Drdha [make stable] Adhimoksa Satva

    Adhi is not the same as Adi; as an adverb, preposition, or prefix to verbs it usually means "up, over, above".

    4) (As first member of Tatpuruṣa compounds) (a) Chief, supreme, principal, presiding

    and yet this is also true:

    1) Mental pain or anguish, agony, anxiety (opp. vyādhi- which is bodily pain)

    And so for example in Gaudiya, they say Kunkuma powder relieved the Gopis' Adhim or sexual anxiety and they became satisfied.

    So we see what Powder of Kumari is doing.

    However, some of our scriptures mutilate the language:

    Adhimokṣa (अधिमोक्ष).—(= Pali °mokkha), = adhimukti, zealous application: Mahāvyutpatti 1929; Dharmasaṃgraha 30

    The devi's form starts with Cavi which I'm guessing is Ca Avi which is perhaps similar to Ava, to appear, be perceptible.

    The next word some of us may like:

    Calita (चलित).—p. p. [cal-kta]

    1) Shaken, moved, stirred agitated.

    2) Gone, departed; एवमुक्त्वा स चलितः (evamuktvā sa calitaḥ)

    3) attained.

    4) known, understood.

    5) Removed, displaced (see cal).

    -tam 1 Shaking, moving.

    2) Going, walking.

    3) A kind of dance; चलितं नाम नाट्यमन्तरेण (calitaṃ nāma nāṭyamantareṇa) M.1.


    So it may mean other things, but, it seems to me, is about her form appearing.

    A mudra is going to explain:

    vakti svagotrajām |

    speech of being born of that same noble family, followed by luminosity that is:

    Prakṛṣṭa (प्रकृष्ट).—p. p.

    1) Drawn forth or out.

    2) Protracted, long, lengthy.

    3) Superior, distinguished, excellent, eminent, exalted.

    4) Chief, principal.

    5) Distracted, disquieted.

    6) Violent, strong, excessive.


    The luminosty is then the Kula Bija.




    The end of the chapter appears to say there are thirteen yoginis of Laksana Cihna (i. e., family emblems), and seven that are the same as the ones from the Laksanapariksa practice given previously.

    The devis in this chapter pertain to Nava Candana--Sandalwood Gandhini--incenses which is why we see the admixture of Nilotpala and Mrnala and so forth.

    They seem to be:

    Hema Raktapita--Saundini (Hayagriva Family)
    Color?--Cakravarmini (Ratnasambhava Family)
    Nila--Suvira (Heruka Family)
    Rakta--Viramati (own)
    Pitasyama--Varahi (Vajra Family)
    Arakta--Mahabala (Tathagata Family)


    It is not plainly written, that is for sure.


    Quote I should work on my onion appreciation. Maybe in the modern world it's about TOR.
    (Tsongkhapa mixing languages is the man from Onion Valley tsong (now written zong) still means 'onion' in standard Mandarin).

    Just because I am almost totally unaffiliated with the Gelug school and believe I may differ on a few points of their philosophy, does not, in any way, detract from my appreciation of some of them.

    One thing we can say about him is that he was one of the few people of the time who had the chance to examine almost all of the tantras, usually meaning by way of initiation and practice.

    So his view is, for his era, pretty comprehensive.

    Alex Wayman relies upon him pretty regularly, and he perhaps is the westerner who really started asking the teachings the right questions...some of it is a bit stray or superfluous but this more honest type of inquiry brought forth some really good work.





    Quote The reason it caught my eye was that the expression was that it "consisted of" the source of all phenomena. As if the substance of the corpse itself, what it was made from was from 'source of all phenomena'.

    Yes, consists of, is composed of, is very much the intent behind most such equivalencies.

    It, I think, is a change from the western phrases such as Neptune, god of the sea, which would instead come out more like Varuna *is* the sea, or, if you wanted to be more specific, Varuni is the sea and Varuna is the state of mental mastery of it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    lakṣaṇānantaraṃ vaktuṃ saptadaśaṃ paṭalamāha - tato durlabhā ityādi
    These passages seem to be something about the difficulty of saying something? Would that be difficulty with intoning it or what?
    Have to revise our stance here. It is not seventeen entities or elements, it is just Chapter Seventeen, and it only looks weird since only three chapters seem to be called patalamaha.


    What the chapter itself says is difficult is:

    durlabhā yoginīnāṃ tu ḍākinīnāṃ tathaiva ca |

    Tathaiva (तथैव).—ind. So, even so, in the same manner. E. tathā, and eva thus.

    in the manner of five amritas and Armor Deities.

    This is the Cihna Mudra chapter, so, perhaps the six armor deities plus the seven...oddballs...make thirteen Cinha or family deities. Well, Cihna is really the sign/seal/item/symbol etc. which represents a family.

    The weird shuffling of the terms Yogini, Dakini, and Devi comes up here.

    Perhaps that is why "mother" is spelled three ways possibly.

    I am pretty sure they are trying to get at a procession from five nectars to six families to seven jewels in a way that each is increasingly subtle and profound.

    I think the practice is difficult, it is hard to get five nectars, let alone make them do anything. We would not even have Hevajra tantra if someone had not done this for years and given up. just to be chided by Nairatma. From what I have seen, "durlabha" is a fairly typical description of any mandala or wisdom considered to be challenging.


    Overall, it looks like the Seven come from Vajra Family from the dakini named Dakini, which sounds consistent with having Yamini first:

    saugatagoṣṭhīratā saiva vajrakulodbhavā ] |
    ḍākinīnāṃ kulānīha mahāvādīni lakṣayet || 12 ||


    Chapter Eighteen appears to have combined the six colors and the seven laksana--cihnas:

    sarvayoginīvarṇalakṣaṇacihnavidhipaṭalo



    Quote Ah, emerge. That sounds interesting.

    At this point, it says the Seven Jewels are in a mandala. You have twenty-four yoginis, split into Akasa, Bhucari, and Patala, and then the "other twelve" or Cemetery Goddesses.

    There are five ratnas in verse twenty-one, and seven in verse twenty-four, the meaning of it changes totally.

    How would it emerge? Boiling away afflictive emotions and mental confusion to make the "conditions" that manifest the Buddha Path? Minus the details, yes, I think it is about that simple.

    I have never really even studied the symbolism of the seven jewels much, but, let me put it this way, Upeksa is not a word off a page or a wise reminder about "being firm"...it keeps me alive.

    So it is difficult to cobble together those tantric details *and* push it to a point where it has a physiological effect.

    I have experienced the effect, which has led me to believe that the details are important, and although it is "difficult", it is better than the way I did it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    In the way, I interpret it, it has to do with neither.

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