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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote In the Uttamasevā (excellent worship), Yoga with its six limbs should be employed. These six limbs are:

    Pratyāhāra,
    Dhyāna,
    Pāṇāyāma,
    Dhāraṇā,
    Anusmṛti,
    Samādhi.
    When I looked up "Panayama" because I couldn't understand it, the only place it occurs on the internet is in the text you quoted from. Believe it should be "pranayama" and your further explanation seems to bear this out. Panayama would be restraining drinking instead of restraining prana, while it is a Buddhist precept not to drink alcohol, it seems hilarious to think of that as a yogic practice. ;-)

    Why is Uttamaseva "excellent worship" when it seems to be "higher service"? Are they considered synonymous?

    Quote It is because we infuse this with Buddhist Pranayama that the definitions from other philosophies cease to apply. Then we develop samadhi in the peculiar way of this system.
    This is what I'm trying to figure out. It does seem that states attained during my shaking should properly be called samadhi by most definitions, including this one.

    Quote Tson-kha-pa means that the measure of success in his
    kind of meditation is in the degree to which the meditative object
    is completely transferred to the mind, so that both the subtle and
    rough parts of the body appear vividly in the mind as though alive
    there.
    By this measure some, not all, of the states of mind of my shakings amply qualify as samadhi.

    Quote I am not quite sure I have actually had a Buddhist samadhi. I have had many that other schools would tell me that was it.
    At least in Zen/Chan, they do make a distinction between satori and samadhi, and between satori and nirvana. I don't think samadhi is supposed to be thought of as an endpoint, it is the place where the endpoint occurs, isn't it?

    Quote The three concentrations (samādhi) are those of:

    emptiness (śūnyatā),
    wishlessness (apraṇihita),
    signlessness (ānimitta).
    These here make the most sense with respect to shaking. Transcending ecstasy has a meaning as well, not the meaning that 'seems right', but another one. I told you I have to be non-reactive to bliss in my shaking. I actually have to be very close to non-existent, if that makes any sense. Otherwise, the bliss just turns into some kind of gratification. But if I do become selfless, and become nothing but a sort of passive awe, then the boundaries become non-existent and the state becomes -- I guess awesome or infinite or transformative or something like that.

    Quote By transcending the ecstasy, it ceases talking about a Good Feeling which would be Vedana Skandha, it is utter loss of the bodily senses (Nisprapanca), as if relief from an illness.
    See, to me this means relinquishing of the bodily senses (okay, utterly is a reasonable adverb), not 'loss'.

    Quote Discursive Thought and Wind flowing out the Senses are evil twins and Pranayama gets rid of them both. But Pranayama has almost everything to do with Manasa Japa, and, if there is no first samadhi without sampatti, that would require us to shift into a purely mental environment. So the Pranayama is making the environment for samadhi. Pranayama is called Threading a Needle and then Dharana is the thread not coming out. That means wind and heat are reversed from the senses and going into the channels and the Dharana or Retention is going on with it for a long time.
    Discursive thought in my shaking notes is called, "my chatterer". It may be going on but I generally leave it behind, it is not capable of comprehending what happens, and at times I get forceful and kind of throw it out.

    Quote It is at the plane of Akash where the only possible motion is Dissolving the Voids or the Subtle Minds. This already is like sitting in the Akanistha. You have some ability to probe within the Voids or Formless Janas, but, you are also under an oath not to commit your whole being into that and disappear forever.
    None of this sounds like 'death' in the shaking context. It sounds like shedding one's self. Death in the shaking context usually takes the form of having a funeral and going to where dead people go. Or being the corpse in some form. Or turning to ash and stone.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Why is Uttamaseva "excellent worship" when it seems to be "higher service"? Are they considered synonymous?

    Should be an "r" in Pranayama. When I copy stuff, sometimes I leave the garbage, depends on how much time I have.

    Now as far as "synonyms", depends on your mindset. I do not think of myself as having a religion, but, such terms are so frequently used by translators, going back to Bhagavad Gita, probably the first Sanskrit rendered into English. If Bhagavad = Lord, what am I going to get? Nothing that would explain six transcendental virtues, or anything along those lines. Do the Ten Commandments sound like Paramitas? Not to me. "Thou shalt not steal" is not quite the same as Generosity Paramita being the first one, in fact, especially in China and Japan, you would be considered generous to steal from the rich and give to the poor,
    aside from the fact it has other philosophical and tantric meanings.

    Uttama = "Finest", as in Tilottama. Finest sesame seeds? Tahini? Re-fined?

    Seva means service to me; it is "worship" only in the crudest of allusions.

    We will find the same vocabulary in the popular Durga and Ganesh temples, and, as with most everything else, the attendees seem to follow the most mundane meanings, so it probably literally is "worship" for them.

    To me, the finest service would be found by training in the subtle capabilities of mind and applying them with Karuna. It is just training, it is just practice, like dentistry, the xylophone, or shoe sales. If done properly, any of those become filled with deities and the mundane version disappears.



    Quote I don't think samadhi is supposed to be thought of as an endpoint, it is the place where the endpoint occurs, isn't it?
    Endpoint?

    Never heard of one.

    But, yes, there is the "final" samadhi of the initiation to full Buddhahood. That does not mean he never took another samadhi, it means he pushed it to the point where there were no imperfections left, at that time. According to the Tathagatas, no way to improve it any more.

    It seems to me that when we get samadhi, it is running at twelve watts like the brain, and the meditative path is like an exponential or infinite power-up. Not literally true, but close. Maybe a machine can read you at .13 watts higher, but, to you, it is experienced a thousand-fold.



    Quote Otherwise, the bliss just turns into some kind of gratification. But if I do become selfless, and become nothing but a sort of passive awe, then the boundaries become non-existent and the state becomes -- I guess awesome or infinite or transformative or something like that.
    It definitely became a gratification to me. That is why Buddha says we might attain the first one or two Janas on our own, but, without guidance, we will probably trash it and have a hard time re-starting.

    I don't think I have ever had non-existent boundaries--psychologically, in terms of attitude, sure, but I think this is supposed to be something more profound than "mi casa su casa".




    Quote By transcending the ecstasy, it ceases talking about a Good Feeling which would be Vedana Skandha, it is utter loss of the bodily senses (Nisprapanca), as if relief from an illness.

    See, to me this means relinquishing of the bodily senses (okay, utterly is a reasonable adverb), not 'loss'.
    Yes, relinquish would be better there. Nisprapanca is Non-elaboration or Non-expansion (into thought constructs or senses). Panca is the Five Elements, and:

    Source: archive.org: Mandukya Upanishad & Karika with Shankara Bhashya

    Prapañca (प्रपञ्च, “phenomenal world”).—From the standpoint of Truth, prapañca or the phenomenal world or even the idea of perceiving them does not exist as separate from Brahman. Therefore no birth or death can be predicated of what exists ultimately.

    Because the phenomena are self-created from one's own consciousness. We have a different view than saying the world was given to you by a creator god.




    Quote Discursive thought in my shaking notes is called, "my chatterer". It may be going on but I generally leave it behind, it is not capable of comprehending what happens, and at times I get forceful and kind of throw it out.
    How can it be thrown out?

    I believe it was probably the main thing that enabled me to experience the transcendental realm. I gained the ability to silence the mind. By the Nirodha or Cessation of Citta Vrittis, physical and mental things happened which were almost the complete reverse of ordinary life, such as nothingness of nothingness, brilliant radiance, and luminous glow. That is all I really know about, different aspects of Light.

    Mantra and Bliss are supposed to be the dispellers of agitated thoughts and feelings.

    Since I am not in the same condition I was when younger, I go through plenty of agitation all the time, and at this point I am positive it can be quashed by Mantra. I have only had tiny little trickles of Bliss any time recently. And, so, I am doing it differently, I am not really setting up a sanctuary to get Bliss and call it a day, which is what I did for many years. I hardly knew or used mantra until...well...it is hard to say, since I have attempted magic words of many cultures. Probably the only thing I ever did that would even count would be Tara.

    That is because I got a quiet mind and Bliss, for a while, but in Mahayana we ask to ripen our karmic seeds quickly, and, that started happening, and it tested my resolve, of which I had little. Went almost insane. Actually requested a psychologist just for the opportunity to say, "I am insane, this is what it is like". But the resolution for my Pandora's Box was Tara. After she made my mind quit being such an idiot, I threw Yoga practice onto the backburner, and turned off my "jeweled" senses, and tried to live like an ordinary person. I have had wayyyy too much of that at this point.


    Quote None of this sounds like 'death' in the shaking context. It sounds like shedding one's self. Death in the shaking context usually takes the form of having a funeral and going to where dead people go. Or being the corpse in some form. Or turning to ash and stone.
    It is basically the same thing that happens at death, sleep, or in meditative states. It is not really the way you would die, if shot in the head, but, if you go peacefully at home.

    The Death you are talking about is like the Nine Notions of Prajnaparamita, or, i. e. Wrathful Practice, which tells you to examine and visualize yourself as different kinds of corpses.

    What I am talking about is sometimes called "the Signs", sometimes "Dissolutions", and they are very specific, give or take whether Smoke or Mirage is first, which would hardly affect it.

    I could, at one point, make the First Joy happen at will in one breath, which is awesome, but, it still takes a whole Suksma cycle to trigger these Dissolutions.

    "Self" is such a devious word--even in a Sampatti where there is no awareness of the environment, you are still some kind of "unit", it just happens to lack human mind. To call it a Higher Self sounds outright misleading. The terms from the sadhanas, "sva", or even "atma", again are something like "own-nature", having no nature of anything we can normally name or relate to, but they are not really no-self as in nothing is there, they certainly are Nairatma or No Ego.

    Sadhanas produce Vajra Gharvi or Divine Ego.

    Well, that is tricky, when you get No Ego = No Atma, and then turn around and use Gharvi for Ego, it may seem confusing.

    There is no Atma expressible in words or concepts, so, to the extent you conceive of the Atma, you are making it into an Ego, which it is not.

    The real one is the Dhatu, the One Element, Tathagata Garbha.

    When all the words and concepts are denied and refuted, and, Buddha is finally asked, is there an Atma? The answer is Smile, and, if we look in Prajnaparamita Sutra, it will tell us about Buddha Smile.

    Even if we are not familiar with that, a smile is not a word or a concept. We can make words or concepts about it, but, the thing itself has neither of these.

    It could be said that Subtle Yoga turns off the Skandhas, but, these are not "self", there was not one to get rid of, there is no self in the Skandhas. I have turned them off for a few minutes to maybe a few hours at a time, whereas an Irreversible Bodhisattva has turned them off.

    The Skandhas are the Adventitious Stains, of which the Stainless or Vimala has none.

    If I go into a sensory deprivation tank, that will not affect the Skandhas whatsoever. There is no similar device that deprives them. They can arise in any plane, so even if I lived by astral projection, they could still be there. The Sixth Skandha is the one which believes Skandhas are a self, Sakkaya Ditthi, and so here it is those champions of the sixth principle such as Vajrasattva and Nairatma that are helpful. Sakkaya is a weird term for "the Skandhas", and, in Buddhism, Ditthi is "Wrong View" unless described as Samma Ditthi.

    Or, rather, Sakkaya is four ways of relating to Skandhas: as identity, contained in them, independent of them, or owner of them. Those are Wrong Views about the Skandhas, since, according to the Pali Canon site:

    "Now, The Buddha neither teaches a personality which will continue after Death, nor does he teach a personality which will be annihilated at Death, but he shows us that 'personality', 'ego', 'individual', 'man', etc., are nothing but mere conventional designations (vohāra-vacana) and that in the ultimate sense (s. Paramattha-Sacca) there is only this self-consuming process of physical and Mental Phenomena which continually arise and again disappear immediately."

    The only more subtle sin is Drsti which is also "View" in the sense of any kind of self-view, such as subject-object, any form of duality, where anything would be separate or "other" from anything else.




    I am still plinking at Paramartha Parasol, and, there is no etymology on it, but this is a word:

    yonisomanasikāra : (m.) proper consideration.


    I looked around for any more unusual titles for her, and, just found a few, such as this that seems to be lifted from the Lalita:

    śiroṣṇīṣa avalokitamūrddhni tejorāśi

    Mūrdhni (मूर्ध्नि).—(-mūrdhni) or °na, ifc. = Sanskrit mūrdhan, head: -uṣṇī-ṣaśīrṣānavalokita-mūrdhnir (v.l. °na; both edd. em. °dha) ity ucyate Lalitavistara 432.1


    Or this, which actually does mean "looking at the world":

    lokānalokāyāṃ


    She has Atma of Five Buddhas:

    bhagavatīṃ paṃcādibuddhātmikāḥ

    also:

    ākāśavati


    She is called a Messenger, which is a different deity class:

    duta mahāpratyaṃgirā


    Now I am not sure how they made this Paramartha version since they have only one Pratyangira original source, which seems to be the same one we have.

    Most of it appears to be Prajnaparamita literature--there is a lot of Gambhira "profound" and Subhuti (the disciple).

    When the sources are broken down, it looks like the Naga Kings are from Maha Mayuri, and then the Ocean Clouds are from Megha Sutra.

    I posted a bit more about the Kinnaris at the bottom of the previous page, and, here, Kinnari Sadhana is evidently a copy of Bhutadamara Tantra starting with the appearance of Vajrapani.


    In the original Parasol Dharani, we get this:

    sarvatathāgatoṣṇīṣasitātapatrānāmāparājitāṃ dhvajāgrāvaropitāṃ kṛtvā mahatā pūjāsatkāreṇa mahatīṃ pūjāṃ kṛtvā sarvanagaradvāreṣu praveśayet vihāre vā grāme vā nagare vā janapade vā nigame vā śmaśāne vā parvate vā araṇyāyatane vā imāmaparājitāṃ pratyaṅgirāṃ vidyārājñīṃ mahatā satkāreṇa praveśayet / praveśitamātreṇa praśāntikṛto bhaviṣyati / sarve 'pyupadravopasargopāyāsāḥ paracakrāṇi praśāmyanti /

    followed by the names of Ananta and other Nagas.

    In the Paramartha, this block is on p. 100, followed by Shurangama Samadhi and 108 Samadhis, which is her Punya Sambhara. Then it gives 147 Nagas apparently from Maha Mayuri, then the Ocean Clouds from Megha Sutra, until reaching the Vajrapani section from Bhutadamara.

    In the original, the next line was:

    ananto nāgarājā śaṅkhapālo nāgarājā mahākṛṣṇo nāgarājā nandyupanaṃdau nāgarājānau anye ca sarve te nāgarājānaḥ kāle ca kālaṃ varṣayiṣyanti kālena kālaṃ autsukyamāpatsyate / kālena kālaṃ garjayiṣyanti sarvarogopadravāṃścopaśamayiṣyanti /

    followed by a couple of regular dharanis, and then it ends. It does not quite match her nifty title:

    sarvatathāgatoṣṇīṣa avalokitamūrdhni tejorāśi

    Now, they are handy enough to show us the original Bhutadamara, which is at the end of this massive dissertation starting on p. 745. As usual, it lets us know it is based on five manuscripts, and so half of it is footnotes showing the variances.

    The Bhutadamara does use Eight Sundaris classed as:

    aṣṭabhūtānirājñīkanyaḥ

    and also Eight Cemetery or Smasana Vasinis.

    Nothing at all matches from Bhutadamara Tantra to Paramartha Parasol.

    Paramartha Parasol has Vajrapani showing a bond to Yakshinis and/or Naginis:

    sarvayakṣiṇīnāmābhimukhīkarmamudrā || oṃ mahāyakṣiṇīnāṃ maithunapriyāya hūṃ phaṭ svāhā || sarvayakṣiṇī sāṃnidhyāṃkaraṇīya svāhā || oṃ kāmabhogeśvarīya svāhā || sarvayakṣiṇīnāṃ hṛdayamudrā || oṃ sarvamanohāriṇīye svāhā || || atha nāgarājā utthāya tasminparṣanmaṃḍalaḥ śrīvajradharasya pādau śirasābhivaṃditvā svahṛdayamudrā japet || oṃ phaḥ anaṃtamukhī || oṃ pha graḥ karkkoṭakamukhī || oṃ phuḥ gaṃ phuḥ padmamukhī || oṃ phuḥ ā phuḥ mahāpadmamukhī || oṃ phuḥ dhīḥ phu {||} vāsukimukhī || oṃ phuḥ mlaḥ phuḥ jvālāmukhī || oṃ phuḥ kaṃ phuḥ dhūpamukhī || oṃ phuḥ sāṃ phuḥ {||} śaṃkhapāramukhī || athāṣṭau mahānāginīsādhanavidhivistaro bhavati ||

    Apparently, Vajradhara comes to Mutter the Naginis, and then again to the Kinnaris.

    If I look at Mayuri's Nagarajas, it is similar to, but obviously not copied to, Parasol's version.

    I am a bit lost here.

    It is the type of thing that should "internet" very well, i. e. if we look at a Sutra and it said "do Kinnari Puja", then, we would be happy to have one inserted into the blank.

    However if it does not say this in the original Parasol, and the Kinnari sadhana we get cannot be found in the place where it says it comes from, I do not know how such an elaborate piece just shows up. I am not sure why the names of three Nagas from the firt Parasol Dharani would suggest to copy the Bhutadamara Tantra anyway. It is, no doubt, similar, since he deals with Trayastrimsa Heaven, but I never saw Kinnari or anything like that come up for him.

    There is a Shiva Bhuta Damara Tantra which has Vajrapani and tons of commitments to female beings using Nagini names like Anantamukhi and has Kinnaris. That is interesting that there is a Hindu one that means Ananta Face, whereas the Buddhist Ananta Mukhi Dharani is called Endless Door and seems to have nothing to do with that.

    Shiva's tantra wants to make the point that Bhuts are not ghosts. See Eight Sundaris above--Bhutani Rajni.

    Perhaps this is where the material came from.

    I may try to ask the compiler, Mr. Rawlins. The only thing that makes sense is that he did not copy Parasol off the web, he worked the original manuscript. A few variations from the web page would be understandable; as to whether it says, get the Kinnari sadhana from Shiva, I am not sure.

    Whether it says to just replace any of his names with Vajradhara, I am not sure.

    Usually, this is just difficult due to spelling problems and the like. But all this stuff he has added in has no indications as to why it is there, and it does not come from his citations. I am not going to rake five copies of 8,000 verse Prajnaparamita Sutras to try to find any other dings. Something strange has happened with Mayuri and Bhutadamara. The original Parasol does not have those breaks of different subjects like the "table of contents".

    Where it does identify her as Pandara and Shrnkala, that kind of thing is very informative. How they can repetitively name her "Pratyangira" and not say anything about it, is slick. By looking at her fairly definitive epithets, we get a structure of associations.

    Pratyangira is a similar name to Pratisara, who is Amulet, because she is Prati (against, opposing, returning) Sr, in the sense of being exhausted or distressed. Pratyangira is often called "the repeller", I suppose because of Prati-, which is to entirely overlook Angira, which is to lose the sense of it. With the prefix, you get into a mess quick:

    2) As a prefix to nouns not directly derived from verbs it means (a) likeness, resemblance, equality; (b) opposite, of the opposite side.

    If we just ignore whatever it may be, Angira is not a noun, like some object. It is specifically the Jupiterian Sage, and his name is thought of as also being "Agni", and the word is only him or his desecndants:

    Agni himself who is called the first of the Aṅgirasas. Like Aṅgiras they occur in hymns addressed to luminous objects, and at a later period they became for the most part personifications of light, of luminous bodies, of divisions of time, celestial phenomena and fires adapted to peculiar occasions, as the full moon and change of the moon, or to particular rites, as the अश्वमेध, राजसूय (aśvamedha, rājasūya) &c.]

    It is not like a Volkswagen cantaloupe, it does not revert or reduce to some basic object, as in Prati--Sr, or Annapurna, or Raudri, Smasana Vasini, or most names which can equate to something tangible. If anything, it is just a type of being.





    I can understand for Vasikaran, you might want Kinnari, but Parasol does not have this emphasis. Pandara does, but, it is with Red Power deities, not Bhrkuti. I don't know what is going on with the "compilation".
    Last edited by shaberon; 8th January 2021 at 10:29.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    This may help, and it is hard to see, since Phurba is a major Nyingma practice that looks different.

    It is used by Vajrasattva in Extremely Wrathful form, where he has a consort called "the consort".

    The Phurba itself is Ekaggata, which is a non-removable universal cetasika in which samadhi develops.

    The Tibetan lore is difficult, since an older name for the deity is Vajrakumara.



    Who is the consort?

    From a large Vajrakila book:

    With regard to the Vajrakumara spoken of in the Chinese sources, he is often referred to as
    Kanikrodha, the exact meaning of which is unclear. Monier-Williams includes the glosses "an
    enemy" and "a purificatory ceremony" under kO{lika but Lokesh Chandra seems to read the
    word as kani (girl) because he Sanskritizes the name into the feminine form Vajrakumari.



    Well, it doesn't say Vajrakumari is the femnine half of or consort to Vajrakumara, but there are really only a couple of possibilities for Vajrakumari.



    Circle of Bliss knows that the Newari one is "the Kumari" of Vajravarahi et al.

    Even Russians copied Parasol, who is also Vajrakumari in the original dharani.

    Kila is related to Amoghasiddhi Family, and, so, must be the progression of Ekaggata to Samadhi.

    It is made of some kind of element and power, which would be the female half, or, Parasol starting from the outer or Kriya--Charya level.

    That makes sense even if I largely ignore the common, intricate Phurba--Kila tantra.

    Its basic element runs from the universal cetasika, through Yoga as Parasol and Highest Yoga as Vajravarahi.

    That talks about Samadhi as ultimately spawned from Smrti.

    Yoniso is "wisely" and is a Pali Sutra:


    1. Yoniso Sutta. Just as the dawn is harbinger of the sun, so is yoniso manasikara the harbinger of the Noble Eightfold Path. S.v.31f.

    2. Yoniso Sutta. Mindfulness [Sati--Smrti] comes by yoniso manasikara and goes through it to fulfilment. S.v.93f.


    So, if we follow the symbolic closeness, Smrti is really the male seed, Vajrasattva in various iterations; Samadhi being Parasol in hers.

    Smrti is also equivalent to Sadhana, which could be described as the Method of Luminous Mind, which is Vajrasattva as described in Khasama Tantra.

    Since the Kila is Ekaggata, and Parasol is definitely doing something with Kila, the thing itself is held to transmute into four substances, i. e. Ekagatta is going to Samadhi in stages made of some kind of mental substance. More information from Vajrakilaya is very telling. I noticed it uses a "Gha" mantra which put me on the scent:

    "Early versions of the GST and the Jnanasiddhi of IndrabhUti (both of which feasibly
    arose around the close of the seventh century) list a circle of four krodharajas 225 whereas the later versions of the GST list ten. The earliest Mayajala (as translated into Chinese) on the other hand, lists two groups of four krodha kings and thus would seem, in all probability, to represent a transitional stage between the Yogatantra as represented by the STTS and the Anuttarayogatantra such as the later GST. Those krodha kings are assigned bijamantras in the Mayajala that are found unchanged in the Vajrakila cycle today.


    The Chinese Buddhist canon contains two Vajrakumara (= Vajrakfla?) tantras which
    are said to be derived from the Susiddhi-tantra and within which are to be found a
    collection of rites engaging both Kila and Amrta. Vajrakila and Vajramrta, later to emerge as quite distinct deities, are regarded as one in the Sino-Japanese traditions stemming from this period.

    225. Yamantaka (E), Prajnantaka (S), Padmantaka (W) and Vighnantaka (N). The later SekodddariM, 36-7, also specifically equates Vighnantaka with Amrtakundalin."


    Vighnantaka arose out of Ganapati, q. v.

    Vajrakumara arises from the sea, wreathed in Nagas.



    "The Vajramala-tantra, an early Indian commentary on the GST, adds that the ritual kila should be made of acacia wood, thirteen inches in length and three-sided in shape. It is to be marked with 'the three words' (Om Ah Hum), blessed with one hundred syllables and purified by the rite of Amrtakundalin. The samayasattva whose form comprises the upper half of the peg is, according to Candrakirti,
    the triple-faced, six-armed Amrtakundalin.240


    240. Thus Amrtakundalin's identification with Vajrakila remains, notwithstanding the introduction of Vairocana and Yamantaka. "


    "The Guhyasamiija-tantra (GST) describes the procedure for blessing the yogin's meditation area thus: "(Imagine) VajrakIla as an embodiment of the great king Vajramrta...

    ...Note the continuing identification of
    Vajrakila with Vajramrta (Amrtakundalin)."

    Ganapati's name and identity have been erased, while his function is carried forward by something specifically Buddhist, Vajrasattva. Whatever he is doing in Wrathful mode is certainly related to Jewel Family/Vajramrita Tantra.



    "A single kila of acacia wood (khadira) is mentioned within a long ritual in the
    MMK. The passage in question concerns solicitation of the beautiful Manojna in order to gain her wealth and sexual favours. This charming nymph195 bestows the elixir
    (rasayana) granting long life to the sadhaka who may chose to live in a palace of the gods so long as he meditates upon the kila stuck into the ground.

    195. F. Edgerton, BHS Dictionary, 418, describes her as a yakshini. She also occurs in the retinue of Vajramrta (Nispannayogovali, mandaIa no. 7)."

    She is really a Wisdom to be realized by Vajramrita Tantra.

    Manojña (मनोज्ञ) is also the name of a Kinnara mentioned as attending the teachings in the 6th century Mañjuśrīmūlakalpa.

    Manojña is a Sanskrit compound consisting of the terms manas and jña (ज्ञ).

    Jña (ज्ञ).—A compound letter, considered to be composed of ja and ña; it is usually expressed by jn or gn, but its peculiar nasal sound is not well conveyed by any combination of the Roman alphabet.

    As we have just seen, as a suffix, it may also mean "wife of the gods", so, i. e. Mind Wife in the Divine sense.

    It is almost the same as Manohara, so close, I cannot say they are identical, but strongly suggestive.


    "The mandala as it is described in the Kila manuals, however, is generally far more
    complex than this simple paradigm of the emperor Kila and his court of ten wrathful
    kings. Vajrakila and Trptacakra in the centre may be accompanied by the one-eyed queen of the matrs, Ekajati, and the king of the oath-bound protectors, Vajrasadhu. They in tum are surrounded by three, four or five kulakilas and then, around them, the dasa-krodharajas with their queens and animal-headed assistants. Outside that circle stand the twentyone supreme sons (an epithet regularly applied to any important subordinate of the chief Kila) consisting of the groups of body, speech and mind manifestations (seven in each). In the four directions there are then the four guardians of the gates.321

    321. In the east is the goddess Vajrayaksa with the head of a hoopoe bird holding in her hand an iron hook. In the south is Vajrabhairavi with the head of a magpie, holding a noose. In the west is Vajramrta with the head of an owl holding fetters in her hand and in the north is *Ghataka (gSod-byed) with the head of a hawk holding in her hand a bell."

    There is a sudden appearance of Female Vajramrita as Ulukha Mukhi.

    During initiation:

    "Then, as the disciple accepts from him a few drops of nectar, the acarya recites:
    "HUM. This sacred substance of swirling nectar is greatly enjoyed by those
    who have gathered the three worlds under their sway. This fivefold
    powerful nectar arising from desire annihilates the five families and renders
    them free of birth and death. The empowerment of this swirling nectar is
    now bestowed upon you. OM AH HUM VAJRAMRTA-ABHISIN"CA AM OM AH
    HUM SVAHA."

    Next is the consecration of the five-lobed crown which is bestowed with the same verse as found in the empowerment rite of the mahottara cycle above but for which the mantra given here is RATNAMUKUTA-ABI-IISIN"CA MAM TRAM TRAM TRAM TRAM TRAM."

    Mahottara refers to Jewel Family.


    Kumar is such a common word that only around 675 quadrillion people have it as a name today, but, on Buddhist deities, it proves to be conspicuously absent except for Vajrasattva and Parasol. Kumara Kula plausibly appears to be a useful name for the Sixth Family in Sarvadurgati Parishodana, and show up similarly with Parasol. That is just how it seems to me.

    Even if nothing is mentioned about it, there is a Vedic Kumara Kula:


    In this reading the kumAra kula consists of only 12 mAtR^i-s. These are: 1) AveshinI (the possessor); 2) ashrumukhI (bloody faced); 3) kutuhalI (the eager one); 4) hastinI (the elephant headed one); 5) jR^imbhiNI (the stretching one); 6) staMbhinI (the paralyzer); 7) mohinI (the deluder); 8) kR^iShNA (the black one); 9) viShAkhA (having the form of vishAkha, one of the 4 kaumAra mUrti-s); 10) vimalA (the unblemished one); 11) brahmarAtrI (the epoch of universal dissolution); 12) bhrAtR^ivya-saMgeShu-patanti (one who falls upon the enemy hordes).

    The family is ostensibly about Avesa and just happens to have Hastini in the middle of it. If Kumara Kula = Vajrasattva, but, Avesa = Amoghasiddhi, these are not generally related until the point of Vajra Kila; Vajrasattva has been semi-wrathful as Vajravidarana, wrathful as Vajrapani, and by the point of Extremely Wrathful, Kila is Amoghasiddhi Family.

    Samadhi is Amoghasiddhi Family; Vajrashrnkala and Candika. If this is the sixth yoga, it is because we stuffed Vajrasattva at the beginning, and progressed him through stages.

    The "Stages of Wrath" culminating in Kila which is Ekaggata is therefor strongly similar to the Six Yogas culminating in Samadhi, and samadhi is nothing but a transmuted ekaggata.

    Going back to the original Dharani, whatever Parasol is doing with Kila frequently, but not always, gives a related Vidya:

    chindayāmyasinā kīlayāmi vajreṇa / atharvaṇakṛtāṃ vidyāṃ chindayāmyasinā kīlayāmi vajreṇa / vajrakaumārīkṛtāṃ vidyāṃ

    chindayāmyasinā kīlayāmi vajreṇa / vināyakakṛtāṃ vidyāṃ chindayāmyasinā kīlayāmi vajreṇa / kumārakṛtāṃ vidyāṃ


    Atharvana Bhadrakali is Pratyangira, related to Vajrakaumari.

    In the second, Vinayaka is related to Kumara, which is not only a male but a different spelling, suggesting the firt is a Youth and this one perhaps is Mars (Sanatkumara).

    Her repetitive action is something like:

    chinda (छिंद).—f C (chida S To cut, split &c.) A thing chopped or mineed. 2 Chopped, minced, hacked, hewn, mangled, mutilated state

    Yāmyā (याम्या).—name of a mātar (śakti of Yama): Mahā-Māyūrī 242.18.

    sīna : (pp. of sīdati) sunk; subsided; yielded.

    Kila Yami Vajrena "by or with the Vajra".

    The Dharani's inclusion with the Sutra is attested this far:

    Mahā-praty-angirā Dhāraṇī , is also known by the full name Tathāgatoṣnīṣaṃ Sita-ā-tapatraṃ Aparājitaṃ Praty-angiraṃ Dhāraṇī 如來頂髻 白傘蓋 無能勝 對治 惡魔 陀羅尼. Śhūrangama dhāranī 楞嚴咒 is referred to the Tathāgatoṣnīṣaṃ Sita-ā-tapatraṃ dhāraṇī in the Paramiti's version (705 CE) of the Śhūrangama Sūtra (Taishō T19 No. 945)

    The Dharani, perhaps, is simply the "Five Families" section of the Sutra. Or, it is supposed to have these breaks:

    SECTION 1: THE VAJRA DIVISION (EASTERN DIRECTION)

    NAMO SARVA TATHAGATA SUGATAYA ARHATE SAMYAK-SAMBUDDHAYA.
    NAMO SARVA TATHAGATA KOTI USHNISHA. NAMO SARVA BUDDHA BODHISATTVEBHYAH.
    NAMO SAPTANAM SAMYAK-SAMBUDDHA KOTINAM...

    SECTION 2: THE JEWELS DIVISION (SOUTHERN DIRECTION)

    OM! RISHI-GANA PRA-SASTA TATHAGATOSHNISHA SITATAPATRAM HUM BHRUM...


    SECTION 3: THE LOTUS DIVISION (WESTERN DIRECTION)

    RAJA-BHAYA, CORA-BHAYA, AGNI-BHAYA...


    SECTION 4: THE BUDDHA DIVISION (CENTRAL DIRECTION)

    BHAGAVAN SITATAPATRA NAMO STUTE.
    ASITA NARAKAH PRABHA SPHUTA VI-KAS SITATAPATREH...



    SECTION 5: THE KARMA DIVISION (NORTHERN DIRECTION)

    DUSHTA-CITTA, PAPA-CITTA, RAUDRA-CITTA, VI-DVE-SHA-CITTA, AMITRA-CITTA...


    If that is the casting order, it is strange that Amoghasiddhi has been lifted above and beyond the central deity.

    The Cusp of Wrath and Jewel Family may have something to do with Yama's traditional direction is South.

    I did not understand Messengers:

    Source: Pali Kanon: Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines

    'divine messengers', is a symbolic name for old age, disease and death, since these three things remind man of his future and rouse him to earnest striving.
    Last edited by shaberon; 9th January 2021 at 06:13.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Seva means service to me; it is "worship" only in the crudest of allusions.
    Indeed. As in the name of the RSS.
    Quote To me, the finest service would be found by training in the subtle capabilities of mind and applying them with Karuna.
    Agreed.

    Quote I don't think I have ever had non-existent boundaries--psychologically, in terms of attitude, sure, but I think this is supposed to be something more profound than "mi casa su casa".
    Quite so. I meant boundaries disappearing, becoming unbounded, but also becoming not differentiated from what is around one.


    Quote
    "Quote Discursive thought in my shaking notes is called, "my chatterer". It may be going on but I generally leave it behind, it is not capable of comprehending what happens, and at times I get forceful and kind of throw it out."

    How can it be thrown out?
    Well, like I said, I don't usually do that. I usually proceed on a different track or in a different space from it and so I don't actually care whether it is there or not. But there are times when that either isn't sufficient -- it insists on coming back and being distracting -- or I need complete silence from it because of what is being taught or practiced. In such times, I just kind of forcefully stop it, or I tell it to go forcefully, or I just kind of 'grab' it and toss it out. Forcefully stopping it is like silencing one's stream of consciousness during, say, martial arts. Telling it to go is just what it sounds like, personifying it and then telling it to go. Grabbing it and tossing it out is grabbing it with the same grabbing method that one uses to grab an inner switch or a muscle or a stream of bliss or something, and tossing is just tossing -- flinging it somewhere else.

    Quote The Death you are talking about is like the Nine Notions of Prajnaparamita, or, i. e. Wrathful Practice, which tells you to examine and visualize yourself as different kinds of corpses.

    What I am talking about is sometimes called "the Signs", sometimes "Dissolutions", and they are very specific, give or take whether Smoke or Mirage is first, which would hardly affect it.
    Yes and no. I do have a lot of being corpses, but I also have several Phowa sequences, and one very cold place that I don't go to because it is pretty much death incarnate, and if I went there I would die.

    Quote "Self" is such a devious word--even in a Sampatti where there is no awareness of the environment, you are still some kind of "unit", it just happens to lack human mind. To call it a Higher Self sounds outright misleading. The terms from the sadhanas, "sva", or even "atma", again are something like "own-nature", having no nature of anything we can normally name or relate to, but they are not really no-self as in nothing is there, they certainly are Nairatma or No Ego.

    Sadhanas produce Vajra Gharvi or Divine Ego.

    Well, that is tricky, when you get No Ego = No Atma, and then turn around and use Gharvi for Ego, it may seem confusing.

    There is no Atma expressible in words or concepts, so, to the extent you conceive of the Atma, you are making it into an Ego, which it is not.
    Now it's my turn to not know quite what to do with this.

    I could get very biological and say that no-self means that the inner response to either real (external, physical) or imagined (internal) stimulus does not happen. I think I already did tell you about experiments that show that the incoming sensory information moving into the brain is met right from the beginning with outgoing information with which it matches in uncoded form, allowing recognition and cognition (I do remember writing to you about blind-sight). Without that meeting, nothing is categorized, recognized, dismissed as known, or anything. There are actually people (neuroscientists) who believe that if such an experience happens, it will be negated, you 'won't see it' because it isn't in your reality. That's actually probably true if one is rooted enough to their existence to believe in only things they recognize.

    So lack of self means lack of recognition and receipt of world information, regardless of whether that world information comes from the outside physical world or not. I would argue that it isn't invisible, it's limitless.

    That's a sensory version. You say you are still a "unit", I would reply that there isn't a "you" to be a unit. I can be the breeze if I don't insist on being a self, the breeze doesn't have a self. I spent last night practicing being city blocks and small towns at night. I have no idea why that was something to learn or why I practiced it, but I did practice it for 4 hours. You can say I left behind my "unit" and I can agree, but really it was a tree falling in a forest with nobody listening.

    I sometimes think I must be supposed to teach about my shaking. If I were to do that, other than specific techniques, move your breath this way, tighten that muscle, direct your mind to this place, activate your listening, I would teach exactly that thing:

    Both the world and your mind are limitless as long as you end your self because that's what limits them. You can see anything you can or even can't imagine as long as you stop trying to answer the question, "Where have I seen that before?"

    I think there is a real problem with using the word Ego for these things, because by its original psychological definition, Ego is very limited, and Self is not. But the translators came upon this word once upon a time, and it fit with their philosophy classes so they started using it.

    Quote The only more subtle sin is Drsti which is also "View" in the sense of any kind of self-view, such as subject-object, any form of duality, where anything would be separate or "other" from anything else.
    And if it is not, then it's the proper view. But that is like what I said about self.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Kumar is such a common word that only around 675 quadrillion people have it as a name today, but, on Buddhist deities, it proves to be conspicuously absent except for Vajrasattva and Parasol.
    Because it means "prince". Similarly, in some parts of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, you see the name Chowdury, which means chieftain. There are lots of surnames that indicate current or former rank.

    Quote Samadhi is Amoghasiddhi Family; Vajrashrnkala and Candika. If this is the sixth yoga, it is because we stuffed Vajrasattva at the beginning, and progressed him through stages.
    This I am not understanding. How is Samadhi in a family?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Forcefully stopping it is like silencing one's stream of consciousness during, say, martial arts.
    Maybe that is not too far from Kila, or Ganapati, or the powerful Obstacle Removers, which I personally have only recently begun to see.

    I put a little more into the Kila post above.



    Quote I also have several Phowa sequences, and one very cold place that I don't go to because it is pretty much death incarnate, and if I went there I would die.

    I am just not that good at Tibetan. But from what I recall it is like the Voids and Prabhasvara, with the intention of Transference, which is the Seventh Dharma usually just involved with Jnana Dakini.

    I may be talking about the cold thing. Maybe that is the difference. Maybe that is it and you just don't die.





    Quote So lack of self means lack of recognition and receipt of world information, regardless of whether that world information comes from the outside physical world or not. I would argue that it isn't invisible, it's limitless.

    That's a sensory version. You say you are still a "unit", I would reply that there isn't a "you" to be a unit.

    Both the world and your mind are limitless as long as you end your self because that's what limits them. You can see anything you can or even can't imagine as long as you stop trying to answer the question, "Where have I seen that before?"

    In Abhidharma it seems there is not exactly any definition for self to be present or lacking.

    So, no, there isn't a "you" to be a "unit", there is just the "unit", mental processes.

    The part that is important for Samadhi is *only* what is in the mind, i. e. Dharmadhatu Vajra, Mental Object.

    And so it is like the "one" or "first" Samadhi is like multiple attempts at Dhyana and you have to build towards it with Pranayama and so on, until, eventually, when it "hits" is Amoghasiddhi Family, meaning, perhaps, a peak of intensity. Accomplishment of the initial meditative process. And the family has this same final sealing of realization in all of the rites, generally speaking.

    But it is also Kusuma or Blossoming.

    From that point, samadhi could, I suppose, be said to convey or focus through other Families.


    And so if I focus on Yoga Tantra or Generation Stage with mainly a System of Six, I am not forced to tamper with Tantric Union and restricted deities and so forth, and so some female will hold the potentially-male role of Upaya, and so there can be a female placeholder for Smrti for as long as desired. Following the symbolism, it would be the one in Buddha Family, if one follows the counting order as used with Namasangiti or in classifying the Paramitas with Dhyani Buddhas, it goes:

    Vajrasattva, Ratna, Lotus, Akshobya, Vairocana--Buddha, Amoghasiddhi, Vajradhara.

    Similarly, in Kila which is Ekagatta growing to Samadhi, it is an increase of Vajrasattva until attaching Amoghasiddhi or Karma Family, corresponding to additional use of the Muladhara Chakra.

    Because it works like that, it is the sole Yidam of many of the Nyingma.

    From what I can tell, Parasol is Pandara, who has been emanated by Buddha, but really acts a lot like a female Vajrasattva.

    As noted in the above post, although she only directly deals with Five Families, she has moved Amoghasiddhi above and beyond the central deity. She has made Five match the middle part of Seven.

    She is easily accessible, unlike the seventh principle, or deities that only arise at the stage of Tantric Union. She just happens to be the seventh principle as Vajradakini, Upeksa, which is, so to speak, above and beyond Tantric Union. So by following her as she is unveiled to us in her progressive stages, is a sure road to the final crucial kind.

    That is why she seems to be such a tremendous bridge from Six to Seven. I think Sarvadurgati Parishodana has managed to do the same thing by involving Lasya. Parasol is also a bridge from Five to Six if this part has not made sense to you yet.

    So it is just a result from the fact that Pranayama, the third Yoga, is characterized by Lotus, the Third Family, that further along, Samadhi is Accomplishment, characterized by Amoghasiddhi Family. Smrti is the Fifth Yoga, and the syllable for the Fifth Element Akash, is Kha, which in turn becomes the seed for Amoghasiddhi, which is like placing him after Buddha Family as in Shurangama.

    That is why Amoghasiddhi Tara of the Akanistha is such a viable vision for Samadhi. Candika is the Wrathful Equivalent. Vajrashrnkala is like a can't stop, can't quit, which is why she drives even harder and enters Union.

    Also, the symbolism of moving Sense of Touch off of Amoghasiddhi (Air--Entire Surface) and into Akash, as done in Guhyasamaja, is close to the same meaning or attainment.

    So when we speak of Akash, it really means something like the related fifth principle is becoming aware in our bodies. It does not mean we are wholly transported into the plane of Akash. That is what you are doing once you are actually established in the Akanistha.



    Amoghasiddhi is not...easy whatsoever. Difficult to experience. Hard to understand. That is why Tara is so effective. She will bring us to his level. She achieved enlightenment under him in the previous universe when she was Yeshe Dawa Jnana Chandra. Most of her are not his consort. But they will bring you to her.

    He has no particular male emanation aside from whenever someone makes their own Five Families representation, he governs the northern quadrant.

    He has Kubera which is not really a Yidam.

    Bhattacharya thinks Vajramrita is part of him, because he is Green, but this is wrong.

    About all you get is Visvapani Bodhisattva and then you can go around looking for a Visvavajra and it is hard to find because it is really the Vajra Bhumi or Ground of a mandala,

    He doesn't have goofy stumble bunnies traipzing through the Sutras asking questions.

    He doesn't have much by way of public dharanis except his wife is Dharani.

    He is married to Dharani and tons of goddesses are happy to wear his badge. For instance, with Kurukulla:

    In the northern gate is Vajragandhari, golden in complexion, who bears the image of Amoghasiddhi on her crown, has a distorted face and protruding belly, and carries in her two right hands the sword and the goad, and in the two left the bell and the noose.

    Gandhari happens to be holding all Four Activities since Sword is the symbol of Amoghasiddhi Family, it is a Visvavajra.

    That is why Sword Dakini--Guhyajnana Dakini and Mahacina Krama Tara, are particularly esoteric, like Khadga Yogini of Sri Yantra.

    If we follow exoteric male symbolism, we will not get much about the real nature of this family what-so-ever.

    With Tara and the Dakinis and a very stringent notion of Samadhi, we do.

    It is along the lines of "only to be found in the most sublime states of consciousness".

    Its common enemy is Fear, which his mudra dispels, but, if you are not really afraid of that and you are just puzzled as to what is so occult about this guy, his mudra means Assurance.


    He does not really have his own male deities, but, it can be easily shown that Vajrasattva "approaches" him, and so you have white at the beginning and green at the end this way.

    This is similar to the two most common Taras, or, the combined Day--Night Tara.

    Color-wise, white is the most undifferentiated, and green is the most compounded or materialized.

    Tantric Samadhis are in order to split the green color into blue, yellow, and white, which is like melting the material world.

    Hevajra practitioners report what they call a "Green-White flash" or "Dance of Wisdom" that occurs amongst mandala deities which begin doing a captivating exchange of colored lights.

    Even further, I would say Buddha Kapala uses what we call Occult Color, as he works with Citrasena "painter or artist". He is, so to speak, the ne plus ultra of Mahamaya training.

    Well it is his skull which is or was an Usnisa but now even this is rendered to Emptiness.

    It is Inversion. This is what I would automatically get if I "used" a color, I would get its opposite. Like on an axis. Since there is Orange--Turquoise as with Dharma Tara Achi Chokyi, I know, that, for example, if I stare at an Orange Sun Disk, then I get a Turquoise after-impression. And so that Turquoise is the Occult Light, it is only in the mind, like if I turn and face the opposite wall, there is no turquoise disk there, but I can see it.

    Then for those who argue it is made of fatigued rods and cones, if I keep doing it, eventually I don't even need the disk and can find the light at will. Then it could be a Samadhi Object.

    If I keep going back to the samadhi, eventually this weird mental object will be re-born in a Purified or Maha condition.

    If I was like Citrasena, if I could just use this light like paint and slap it on some invisible, body-less dakini, then the Deity's Stupa would touch my Inverted Stupa and then we could train Transference.

    In the Pali Vishuddhimagga, they are more or less telling you to do this on "randomly, anything", whereas in Vajrayana, it is used to summon Celestial Wisdom Beings in resonance to Mantra.


    So the thing about Color is a Method, right, it is a particular kind of technique, whereas we would also have to contend there is such a thing as relinquishing Mental Sense of Sight, which would leave some corresponding factor of Darkness.

    Relinquishing Mental Sound is like exiting Gandharva Heaven on the other side.

    That is why "the Dharmadhatu" is, from the view of experience, what we "go to"--Dharmadhatu Vajra or Mental Object or the object of samadhi--and it is our ability to "go there" and stabilize it which has to become the platform for that which happens in/via/through it.

    Amoghasiddhi is not really the object, but more like the ability.

    Vajrasattva is the interest in and development of the ability and continues to ride the rails in/via/through it.

    Parasol refers to Dharmadhatu in the corresponding term Vijnana Dhatu which clarifies it is an Element more subtle than Akash, and subject to the Asta Vijnana training of Yogacara. In the vocabulary of Dakini Jala, Dharmadhatu Vajra is the generic name for the Lady of the Sixth Principle, such as Jnanadakini or Vajravarahi.

    For those of us looking for tamer, more symbolic versions, Vajra Ghanta, Vajrasattvatmika, Vajra Gharvi are appropriate, or, it looks to me, Parasol.

    Dharmadhatu Vajra is the Object, i. e, the perceived form, whereas the Element or simply Dhatu is the Prajna or Ishvari, Wisdom or Ultimate Enlightenment. In that sense, Marici is Dharmadhatu Ishvari and Vajrasattva Ishvari.

    Although Vajrasattva is of the Mind Element, by placing him first, then, Amoghasiddhi stands sixth as a marker of communion, that is, to say, Samadhi, with our conceptual or initial, purifying Vajrasattva finally realizing his true nature, via or through Amoghasiddhi, so to speak.


    Now of course there is no direct scriptural relationship between Parasol and Vajrasattva, they are miles apart, and we are just showing how they connect in terms of inner meaning. However, here is an interesting Sadhana which firstly indicates she was nothing but a Mental or Dharmadhatu Vajra to begin with:

    "Her sutra and mantra emanate from the Buddha's ushnisha, rather than through His speech, and accordingly her name is White Ushnisha. The deity is classified as belonging to the Kriya Yoga tradition, but the manner of explanation and practice belongs to the Mahayoga. Great mahasiddhas, Dze Tari, Dorje Denpa and so on composed her sadhanas, which are easy to practice and this one is similar to them. Also, there is a Nyingma lineage from Garab Dorje, through Manjusrimitra to Vimalamitra.

    Dorje Tsuk Tor (Skt. Vajra Ushnisha) form of the great expeller. (She has) one thousand heads.

    Vairocana Buddha marks her forehead; in His heart is a white Om. Amitabha Buddha marks her throat; in His heart is a red AH:
    Vajrasattva marks her solar plexus; in his heart is a blue Hung. Around a white OM, which stands on a moon disk in the center of heart, the mantra rotates, emitting light which removes all defilements and hindrances and provides strength and power.

    You are decorated all over with flaming, invisible vajras.

    The time of death is uncertain where one will go, but it is certain that great suffering awaits one in any of the six destinations. Whoever can keep these in mind, please, practice this secret oral teaching."


    That is outright bizarre since it is supposed to be a blue Hum deity at the heart. But, she has given Vajrasattva the assignment and pushed him to, their words, solar plexus, while placing him in the rank of an important Dhyani Buddha. In Nepal, Maha Pratyangira is both the Six Arm Blue form and Thousand Arm Parasol. Here, Vajrosnisa is Thousand Arm Parasol and acting in the same manner as Pratyangira.

    He also calls her Sugata, so, even though she is just a Mental Object produced by Buddha, that Mental Object is a Buddha in its own right.






    Quote I think there is a real problem with using the word Ego for these things, because by its original psychological definition, Ego is very limited, and Self is not. But the translators came upon this word once upon a time, and it fit with their philosophy classes so they started using it.
    Now, yes, in the "days of Psychology". During the Theosophical era, there was a fondness of keeping Greek in its original meaning and philosophy, wherein, for instance, Eros = our Amitayus, and Ego = True Individual, or "not self" or immortal monad.

    I still employ a lot of nineteenth-century usage and tend to mix Pali into Sanskrit as if it were the same.

    I believe there is a major linguistic and philosophical point to what happened then. Or, if you will, compared to the evolution of the so-called Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Impressionistic, Modern styles of art, I might argue The Secret Doctrine started the Modern Era in its entirety. But the meaning was mostly lost due to pseudo-Theosophy and materialistic science, which it was intended to combat. Theosophy was merely the Groundwork for Raja Yoga, which we have more information on; as an outer presentation to the public or world, it is a weapon, definitely, against those two kinds of extremes.

    Sanskrit is considered un-translatable.

    Kriya--Charya posits an Atma Tattva from the very beginning, and so it is as if the rest of tantra is in transporting "this" to a non-conceptual, non-dual state.

    If we look for instance at the rise of Manjushri in Namasangiti, in the sixth mandala he is the Sambhogakaya, Maha Vairocana, whereas in the seventh, he is Vairocana Atman and Dharmakaya.

    Looked at the other way round, the Right View would be like Four Seals:

    I am not

    -identical to

    -contained in

    -independent of

    -the owner of

    Skandhas.

    That is how the Path applies to me. The failure of Sakkaya Ditthi is like the failure of the Third Noble Truth implying the Path is not important or the Path does not apply to me.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Trptachakra sounded unusual to me, and, the only examples of it appear to be someone saying that this "reading" is unattested and not found in the commentaries because the ordinary consort of Vajrakilaya is Diptachakra.

    Trpta would be "satisfied, content", whereas Dipta is "flaming, luminous".

    Kumara is, however, a traditional name for Kilaya. From the Tantra Samuccaya on the Russian site, this is called Vajrakumara:








    Dipta Chakra is supposed to be a lighter blue; according to Tibet Art, Robert Beer's site:

    "He is a wrathful activity-aspect of Vajrasattva and Vajrapani who is associated with the Karma or Activity Family of Amoghasiddhi Buddha; and his consort, Diptachakra, is regarded as a wrathful emanation of Green Tara."


    Diptachakra is a type of Chandi who has been intercepted by Vajrasattva.

    The Hindu fellow at Kamakoti says this is one of the Buddhist rites he has experienced, that it originally was taught by Prabhahasti and that it does use forceful breathing, which reminded him most of Bagalamukhi.

    Prabhahasti is translated as Radiant Elephant, and, he is not really the origin itself, but, among the Eight Vidyadharas, he held the Vajrakilaya transmission.

    If it were to be said Diptachakra could not be Vajrakumari because Vajrakumari is Parasol, I would look at it like Parasol really is more of a Pancha Tara with all the Families, and that her personal names/forms/hypostasis do not really emphasize Karma Family.

    Historically, Parasol was emanated to the Sangha by Buddha, and Nagarjuna, you might say, worked with this and realized Green Tara and transmitted her along with Karma Family energy which perhaps was not understandable prior to that point.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote I am just not that good at Tibetan. But from what I recall it is like the Voids and Prabhasvara, with the intention of Transference, which is the Seventh Dharma usually just involved with Jnana Dakini.

    I may be talking about the cold thing. Maybe that is the difference. Maybe that is it and you just don't die.
    The Phowa is the ritual that is done during the Chikkai Bardo, i.e. dying. The red and white drops combine at the heart, and then go out the crown as basically an ejaculate that finds the yoni of Vajrayogini to be reborn in the land of the Dakinis.

    In my shaking, there is an inner and an outer Phowa (not really sure why this is, but this is what I mean by loss of self. The inner Phowa is very much like the rite described above, with the top of my head 'splitting' into the crown (male) and the yoni (female) as the ejaculation occurs. The outer Phowa is seemingly on the outside of this, but is characterized by those pairs at the various points in my body - lily and jewel, clouds and empty space, etc. down to the bottom. When it happens and it is outer, I am looking at myself from the outside and I do not exist as a body.

    Quote He does not really have his own male deities, but, it can be easily shown that Vajrasattva "approaches" him, and so you have white at the beginning and green at the end this way.
    I started in on my chest/heart last night. There was a long set up, but part of it included going over the things that had been seen in my heart before. As a result of that and of the "preparation" for the shaking, I was reminded of three male deities that have been in my shaking -- there are those who are there only once or so (Vajrayogini twice, Pandaravasini once, etc.). The males were Surya once, and then a meditation at my heart in which the deity there was Avalokitashvara on the bottom and Shiva on the top. (Since your post also talks about Pandara, the reason Pandaravasini only appeared once was that after that Mandarava appeared instead).

    The new thing was a total rewrite of how the muscles in my chest and rib cage normally work. I can neither do it when not shaking (maybe someday I will but not even close now), nor figure out how I was able to breathe while it was happening.

    It was also a chest/heart version of two such sequences in my lower abdomen/pelvis, and one such sequence in my throat. Of the two such sequences in my lower abdomen/pelvis, one is the precursor to the inner Phowa I described. The motion rolls down my rib cage in what must be a coordinated wave of superficial and deep intercostals and subcostals (which are all underneath the pectorals), and then up my chest above it in the pectorals and the muscles at the areolae. That happened about 3 times per second for about 30 minutes. When it had started, it had trouble detaching from the muscles below that, one of which was my diaphragm so that I lost my breath initially. It continued to entrain my shoulder muscles, which these days control (in my shaking) becoming the shaman animals, so those were rolling. Otherwise, my mind was stopped the way it is in the middle of a dissolve, the rest of my body was I suppose quiet but I was not aware of it.

    I was trained to work the various sets of muscles involved in novel ways over the last few months, and I had to contribute a lot of standing to control my breath (I was told to do that and did so but don't have that exercise completely down). Otherwise, I have zero idea how my muscles moved that way, coordinated but totally alien to my experience.

    Because this just happened last night (actually early this morning), it is very fresh in my mind and I can assert that there is nothing -- no self -- that can be there when that is happening or it either (most likely) won't happen, or else (less likely) I would not have breathed because most of my breathing muscles and chest flexibility to support breathing would not have been there.

    My POV (point of view) was both over my body and deep in my throat. I have had a 'curtain' drawn over my clear body for some weeks now (it looks like grey or red and black fog but has ripples at the bottom like the bottom of a curtain and has a sheen like liquid crystal). That was because I was learning "action", and "wasn't ready" to both experience vision and action. After/during last night sometime it finally dawned on my that "action" in sanskrit is karma, and that the heart is the karma chakra.

    All of which is a long way of saying in response to:

    Quote The part that is important for Samadhi is *only* what is in the mind, i. e. Dharmadhatu Vajra, Mental Object.
    There is no such thing in shaking. If shaking is seen as a form of dhyana, then samadhi is a state which may well be the same state as for sitting or standing, but there is no such thing as "only what is in the mind" because the body shakes when the mind enters uncommon states, and the mind dissolves when the body does so. That's about as clear as I can put it. The state last night was a total zero for the mind and a body doing something it can't logically do, but I am sure that probably the reason the heart is so hard to set up is because I remember the mandala there. It's made up of red and white drops and is spatiotemporal in the sense that as you move from the center, the movements get exponentially faster and the space exponentially smaller.

    I read the rest of your post (this one, and the next one) but will have to comment tomorrow, since I had to look some things up to do this response.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    The correction of Kilaya's consort to Dipta is important with respect to the similar term, Lamp, or Dipa.

    Dipta arguably has more connotation towards hot, excited, and blazing than a Lamp, which could be crafted to shun that.

    E. dīp to blaze, to shine, affix kta .

    A Lamp, per se, appears in three rings or successive layers of action in Yoga practice.

    Lamp is a mundane Offering. In any kind of temple, it would be a literal one, or, in most sadhanas that prompt you to use Offering Goddesses, then they appropriate these regular items and use them.

    If we proceed from the basic kinds of retinues to a tantric version, in the Inner Homa, for Nirajan, the Lamp Offering is the heating of Nectar via Agni Kunda. And so that is why at that point, we have changed the Lamp's possession from that of a Neat Bodhisattva goddess holding it on a pole, to certain rare tantric emanations who hold a Kunda or Dharmodaya.

    In the Stages of Dissolutions, Lamp is the Fourth, the last thing remaining before Sky. At that point, it is not an item, but the nature of how one perceives one's own body, which is scarcely. Instead there is appearance of something more like a Lamp in this moment of Air into Sky.

    Turquoise Lamp is often thought of as a protector, but, I have a feeling that part of what she is protecting is the integrity of this state of mind called Lamp.

    It is the kind of thing we should chew slowly and savor.


    It is, of course, also associated with Atisha and is perhaps used in other ways with other meanings, but, it is pretty specific within the framework of sadhanas. Atisha merely borrowed his last name.


    Now we have looked at Seven Historical Buddhas, but, there is one who is not among them which I have always wondered why was highly important in Nepal, Dipankara.

    It is actually simple, it is from the Jataka Tales or the old Pali legends of Buddha's past lives.

    When he was named Sumedha, or, Megha, Sumati, or Sumegha, he became a disciple of Dipankara, which was actually his first real discipleship, the moment he decided to become a Buddha, and so this story is really the first example of the Bodhisattva Path and Paramitas.

    It is believed to have taken place in Gandahar, and, so, those were the giant statues that the Taliban demolished. They were representative of the size and lifespan of their likenesses. HPB knew this and used it to refer to Lemurians and Atlanteans, and described two versions of counting Historical Buddhas, since there are different numbers that pertain to different cycles.

    Sumedha pledged himself to Dipankara during a Christopher Columbus-type moment of using himself to cover a mud puddle.

    Thousands of deities rejoiced.

    The onlookers who decided to become followers of Sumedha became Kasyapa Gotra.

    According to Wiki:

    In the Pāli Apadāna and Āgamas, Sumedha receives (or buys) blue lotus flowers from a young brahmin girl called Sumittā; he later offers the flowers to Dīpankara Buddha, throwing them in the air. Sumittā takes a vow that she may be reborn as the wife of Sumedha in a future life, which is confirmed by a prediction by Dīpankara Buddha. Later, Sumittā is reborn as Yasodharā (Sanskrit: Yaśodharā), the wife of Prince Siddhattha who later becomes Gotama Buddha. In some versions of the story, Yasodharā only gives the flowers to Sumedha on the condition that he join her in pledging to be reborn as a couple in future lives.

    After lifetimes on the Path, he emerges from Tusita Heaven to incarnate as Gautama, just as Maitreya is said to be doing currently.

    There are a few variations; Dipankara six page paper from a native.

    According to China Buddhism:

    He is generally depicted with two Bodhisattvas, Manjushri and Vajrapani (common in Java) or Avalokiteshvara and Vajrapani (common in Sri Lanka); or with the Buddhas who come after him, Gautama and Maitreya [standard depiction of Buddhas of the Three Times].

    Dipankara Buddha

    (Buddha of Fixed Light)

    (T.) mar-me-mdsad (the illuminator or enlightener).
    (M.) jula joqiaqci (the maker of light).
    (C.) Ting-kuang-fo (Ting Kuang Fo).

    Dipankara Buddha is represented in Java and Ceylon with the right hand in ahhaya mudra — gesture of protection, called 'blessing of Fearlessness'.


    In Nepal, he is associated with Swayambhunath Stupa, and has a Garuda Throne with Makara Riders:

















    He is barely known in Tibet, but in this Gelug view he is an aspect of Manjushri. Note the presence of Dhritarashtra:







    And note the presence of Dhritarashtra:









    The common translation of him is Upholder of the Nation, and his wife is Gandhari.

    So this all tells me something a little more than "Dipankara prophesied Buddha's birth".



    It is like a Sutra version of which the tantric version is Vajradhara as Vimala Guru with Siddharajni or Guhyajnanadakini.

    It is like a particular emphasis that Parasol "is" Pandara even if she can appear in or affect other families.

    Amitabha is defined as Limitless Light, so, he is like a tantric Dipankara.

    Swayambhu is an unusual lotus because the root comes before the seed. What this means is the Root is Swayambhu, self-existent, like Buddha Nature. The Lotus or i. e., practitioner, has to "grow" on this, and *makes* the seed, which is cast into the future cycle, such as the next life.

    Now of course if you are Nyingma you follow Guru Padmasambhava and so Lotus Family is stamped on you immediately.

    And so if I do not have that, and I do not have an earthly Guru, how should we think of the important prayer, Calling the Guru from Afar?

    Here is a quite brief Ngondro Commentary from Khenpo Palden Sherab.

    It is interesting because if I excerpt the relevant parts and overlook differences in some of the details, he will give me back basically the same Guru Yoga as I already do. He doesn't really mention lineage holders or anyone--Calls the Guru in one line.

    He says a Vajrasattva on one's head and a front-generated Vajrayogini:


    "Ngondro", of course, is a Tibetan word. "Ngondro" means "going
    ahead". Many people maintain that Ngondro is a less important
    practice, kind of a pre-school practice. But these people really
    misunderstand. Ngondro is really an essential practice. It must be
    done, fully accomplished, before enlightenment can be reached. If we
    want to reach enlightenment, this practice must be done because
    Ngondro practice is the root of enlightenment.

    Without paying attention to this practice, you won't get results
    from any other practice. You won't achieve the results you want,
    because you won't have the foundation. Other practices may look full
    of excitement, but without Ngondro it's like building a nice, fancy
    house without any foundation. The house won't last for a long time.
    The shelter would not be good for you and not good for others. The
    house will require a large insurance cost. Without Ngondro as a
    basis, other practices will bring some obstacles, not enlightenment.


    If I am using Vajradhara as a transcendant Guru, it works pretty much just as he says, using the "condensed" version of Calling the Guru from Afar which could run on for several pages:

    "NAMO LUMED TEN GYI GONPO LAMA KHYEN"
    Homage! Lama, infallible constant protector, (you who) know!

    If you are very busy, you can just say this line and then begin
    the Ngondro practice. Here you are calling the Lama from afar.
    Actually you are really invoking your primordial natural state of
    mind. This state of mind can be seen in one sense as being far away
    from our normal, daily state of mind. Our ignorance is really deep
    and is a great hindrance to reaching our primordial state of mind. On
    the other hand this state can be seen as right here. It is never
    really beyond you. It is never separated from you. It is always here.
    What you need to do now, is to have sincere longing, devotion, and
    confidence that you CAN reach your primordial state of mind which will
    then be your guide. The Lama is not separate from your primordial
    state of mind. Your primordial state of mind is your absolute teacher
    and will guide you through every situation.

    That is just about exactly what I mean by Guru, except I would not say this at the beginning of Ngondro but rather at the so-called end or transition to Guru Vajradhara.

    Ours tends to use Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra and Seven Limb Offering and Generate Bodhicitta. And so the Nyingma techniques or sequences might look a little different, but the important parts are almost exactly the same thing.

    I am not going to bring in all of his version; however, at the appropriate moments I have also done this and it is much like he says:

    When you do Ngondro practice you also do prostrations.
    Sometimes these prostrations can be done when you are doing the Guru
    Yoga practices. In the Ngondro practice, doing prostrations together
    with the refuge is correct and more practical. There are two types of
    prostrations, short prostrations and long prostrations. In Ngondro
    practice we do the long prostrations, the very extensive ones. While
    we are doing the physical prostrations, we chant the refuge prayer and
    do the visualization meditation at the same time.

    To do the physical prostration we stand straight up and fold our
    hands at the heart center. Our feet may be close together. This mudra
    is called the Mudra of the Blossoming Lotus, or The Wish-fulfilling
    Mudra. This mudra is a symbol of the heart. You are opening your heart
    toward Guru Padmasambhava and the Three Jewels.

    Now put your folded hands on the crown chakra, then on the speech
    chakra, then on the heart chakra. Bow down on the floor. In the short
    prostration your five points must touch on the floor. The five points
    are the forehead, the two palms, and the two knees. All five points
    must touch the floor. In the long prostration, you slide completely
    onto the floor. It's like swimming on the floor (laughter); with all
    of your body touching the floor. Next swing back and stand up.

    To begin the second prostration, you hands don't have to start at
    the heart center. They can go right to the crown chakra. Repeat the
    prostrations again, and again, and again. With the long prostration,
    you stretch out all the way. Your belly, your knees, your forehead,
    your body, all of you touching the floor. When you are getting up from
    the long prostration it is all right for your knees to be on the
    floor. Doing many long prostrations can be difficult at first.

    Although it wasn't designed for exercise, this is a good side effect
    of doing prostrations. It is a lot of exercise. Many people have said
    that when they do one hundred thousand prostrations over a short
    period of time, their bodies become very light. They find it very good
    for arthritic joint pains.

    And so we do this handful of routines that are basically similar, but highly interchangeable, for instance on the phase Generate Bodhichitta, you can use a short form, or, highly elaborate things like The King of Prayers Samantabhadra Pranidhana, articles from Shantideva, and so on, and so it is usually recommended that people use this much of the Ngondro for a long time until it feels natural to them.

    And so we do those routines which are sort of malleable and then we are going to get to one that is not. The part about whether it has to do with Padmasambhava or a Karmapa or whoever may change, and you do not really use Union, just a plain Vajrasattva:


    "CHI WOR LAMA DOR SEM YER MED PAI"
    Above one's head is Vajrasattva, inseparable from the Lama.

    "KU LE DUD TSH GYUN BAB DRIB JANG GYUR"
    From (Vajrasattva's) body, a nectar stream descends, purifying (my)
    obscurations.

    Vajrasattva is no other than Guru Padmasambhava; therefore
    Vajrasattva is also your teacher. Guru Vajrasattva is a totally
    enlightened being and has the special power to remove obscurations.
    When we meditate as Guru Padmasambhava we are meditating on the
    Nirmanakaya Guru. Vajrasattva is a Sambogakaya Guru. Guru
    Padmasambava and Guru Vajrasattva are the same, there is no difference
    between them. In this visualization we see Guru Padmasambhava
    transform into Vajrasattva. Then we meditate on Vajrasattva.

    Visualize Vajrasattva above your head so that you both are facing
    in the same direction. In the refuge visualization, the objects of
    refuge face you. This time you and Vajrasattva both face the same
    direction. Above your head is a one thousand petal white lotus. Above
    the lotus is a moon disk, and on the moon disc sits Vajrasattva in
    vajra posture. This visualization is not of solid objects.
    Vajrasattva and his consort appear in wisdom rainbow bodies.
    Vajrasattva and his consort are in union. Both are white in color. It
    is a rich white color, like when a snow covered mountain is touched by
    moon light, a very rich, bright white. Seeing Vajrasattva as the
    embodyment of all the Buddhas, of all the Buddha families, know that
    Vajrasattva is also of the same nature as Guru Padmasambhava.

    Then remain just as you are, in meditation, nothing else has to
    change. Recite the 100 syllable mantra of Vajrasattva. When you
    begin the recitation of the mantra, invoke the blessings of the male
    and female bodies of Vajrasattva as they extend bliss in all
    directions. Blessing nectar starts to descend from Vajrasattva in the
    form of light and enters your central channel through the crown
    chakra. The light fills your crown chakra, pushing away all
    obscurations, obstacles, and diseases. The light nectar gradually
    descends to your speech chakra, filling that chakra and pushing out
    all negativities, diseases and obstacles. The light nectar then fills
    your entire body, and you become as completely pure and clean as
    Vajrasattva. Your entire body is filled with the wisdom light nectar
    of the Vajrasattvas.

    Each time you say the 100 syllable mantra, see yourself receiving
    more and more nectar, becoming more and more purified, losing more and
    more obscurations, obstacles, and diseases. Continue reciting this
    mantra with a single pointed mind, great devotion, and sharp
    concentration.

    Here is how he interprets the Laughter in Vajrasattva Mantra:

    From my heart I will have great joy in the Four Boundless, Four
    Empowerments, Four Joys, and the Four Kayas.

    Visualize yourself as Vajrasattva dissolving into the primordial
    natural state. You have no more perceptions, no more concentration, no
    more thinking. You merge with the primordial natural state and remain
    in that state for as much time as you can.

    "OD ZHU DAG NANG DANG DRE RO CHIG GYUR"
    (Vajrasattva) melts into light and becomes mingled in one taste with
    one's own perceptions.


    One way or another, they end with, usually, Vajrasattva just entirely melts into you, and then everything reduces to Voidness and so you use Purity mantra.

    And so, this stage, this Voidness moment is intended to search for and enter the Body-less, Videha, and other synonyms of direct recognition of Voidness. When this is stable, then you would move to the full Guru Yoga aspect of Vajradhara, and perhaps be given a Yidam.

    He doesn't dig much into this since it is not really inside the Ngondro any more:

    Now comes the practice of Guru Yoga.

    "RANG NYID DORJE NALJOR DUN KHA RU"
    Oneself (is) Vajrayogini and in the sky in front.


    That is extremely strange that for an article which stresses the necessity of Ngondro, he sticks Vajrayogini in there casually.

    That is more or less what we are attempting to do, in the long run, is force her appearance, not just read about her and try something.

    Most of the available literature will say "Instantly I become Vajrayogini".

    Since he has front-generated her, this alludes to the value of doing so, which, of course, may work better and probably should be done with simple samaya beings.


    One can see a White--Green interface with Amoghasiddhi, but, what of its opposite, Red?

    This Red color is very mysterious to me, as it is Desire and it is shown in several instances as "white tinged with red due to proximity". Pandara's primary meaning. Desire is Kama Dhatu and so it is like the root nature of the entire plane that consists of heavens and hells.

    White and Red are the "halves" of Bodhicitta, with Amitabha's Bowl near the navel area being somewhat of an Inverted Parasol.

    The small Parasol sadhana from the other day dealt with the interpretation of Saptanam and Kotinam by saying Parasol's Crown consists of Seven Million Buddhas who are under Seven Parasols. That makes sense to me, there are any number of Buddhas, mainly of seven kinds. "That" is Vajrosnisa, or, Vajrosnisa is a name that has not been found on her other forms, may only be this.

    Just as male Vajrosnisa is a transformation of Padmantaka, the Wrathful Western Gatekeeper, we might guess female Vajrosnisa is a transmutation of the corresponding female gatekeeper, and, well, it turns out that all of the tantras are already based on this one, Khandaroha, who springs from Varuni.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    So finishing up about the first post from yesterday,

    Quote Similarly, in Kila which is Ekagatta growing to Samadhi, it is an increase of Vajrasattva until attaching Amoghasiddhi or Karma Family, corresponding to additional use of the Muladhara Chakra.
    This is confusing to me, I thought Karma was associated with the heart chakra.

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    Quote Vajrasattva is no other than Guru Padmasambhava; therefore
    Vajrasattva is also your teacher. Guru Vajrasattva is a totally
    enlightened being and has the special power to remove obscurations.
    When we meditate as Guru Padmasambhava we are meditating on the
    Nirmanakaya Guru. Vajrasattva is a Sambogakaya Guru. Guru
    Padmasambava and Guru Vajrasattva are the same, there is no difference
    between them. In this visualization we see Guru Padmasambhava
    transform into Vajrasattva. Then we meditate on Vajrasattva.

    Visualize Vajrasattva above your head so that you both are facing
    in the same direction. In the refuge visualization, the objects of
    refuge face you. This time you and Vajrasattva both face the same
    direction. Above your head is a one thousand petal white lotus. Above
    the lotus is a moon disk, and on the moon disc sits Vajrasattva in
    vajra posture. This visualization is not of solid objects.
    Vajrasattva and his consort appear in wisdom rainbow bodies.
    Vajrasattva and his consort are in union. Both are white in color. It
    is a rich white color, like when a snow covered mountain is touched by
    moon light, a very rich, bright white. Seeing Vajrasattva as the
    embodyment of all the Buddhas, of all the Buddha families, know that
    Vajrasattva is also of the same nature as Guru Padmasambhava.

    Then remain just as you are, in meditation, nothing else has to
    change. Recite the 100 syllable mantra of Vajrasattva. When you
    begin the recitation of the mantra, invoke the blessings of the male
    and female bodies of Vajrasattva as they extend bliss in all
    directions. Blessing nectar starts to descend from Vajrasattva in the
    form of light and enters your central channel through the crown
    chakra. The light fills your crown chakra, pushing away all
    obscurations, obstacles, and diseases. The light nectar gradually
    descends to your speech chakra, filling that chakra and pushing out
    all negativities, diseases and obstacles. The light nectar then fills
    your entire body, and you become as completely pure and clean as
    Vajrasattva. Your entire body is filled with the wisdom light nectar
    of the Vajrasattvas.

    Each time you say the 100 syllable mantra, see yourself receiving
    more and more nectar, becoming more and more purified, losing more and
    more obscurations, obstacles, and diseases. Continue reciting this
    mantra with a single pointed mind, great devotion, and sharp
    concentration.
    This is exactly the visualization that Lama Yeshe has in his book as a preliminary to cleanse oneself before doing the Tummo he teaches, which starts with a visualization of Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini. So I've done this visualization, back in the period when I was trying to figure out what to do, after I had my perception of a clear body, and before I started shaking (about 5 months after the former, and 1 or 2 months before the latter.)

    Quote One way or another, they end with, usually, Vajrasattva just entirely melts into you, and then everything reduces to Voidness and so you use Purity mantra.
    Melts into the heart, in the version I learned.

    Quote This Red color is very mysterious to me, as it is Desire and it is shown in several instances as "white tinged with red due to proximity". Pandara's primary meaning. Desire is Kama Dhatu and so it is like the root nature of the entire plane that consists of heavens and hells.

    White and Red are the "halves" of Bodhicitta, with Amitabha's Bowl near the navel area being somewhat of an Inverted Parasol.
    Pandaravasini is literally "the white robed one", she is pink, the robes are white. As I said in yesterday's response, I have seen her, that is also what she looked like then.
    She was one of the ones that first appeared standing on my heart (not all of them at the same time).

    With reference to your discussion about Dipta meaning flaming, blazing:

    Quote Dipta arguably has more connotation towards hot, excited, and blazing than a Lamp, which could be crafted to shun that.
    When we were discussing the Butchou (Japanese for Buddhosnisa), there was one listed in JAANUS:

    Quote Another important Butchou is Shijoukou Butchou 熾盛光仏頂,...
    This Butchou's name (in Kanji which is really used directly from Chinese in these cases) literally means "blazing flaming light Buddhosnisa".

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    This is exactly the visualization that Lama Yeshe has in his book as a preliminary to cleanse oneself before doing the Tummo he teaches, which starts with a visualization of Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini. So I've done this visualization, back in the period when I was trying to figure out what to do, after I had my perception of a clear body, and before I started shaking (about 5 months after the former, and 1 or 2 months before the latter.)

    I am not surprised. Although brief, it is obviously something from Highest Yoga.

    I would say Chakrasamvara is a mantric compound.

    Then I would say it begins with what I am going to add below, and builds to Seven Syllable deity.

    Because we can show how the scheme of these mantras attaches to what we must resort to calling energy levels or degrees of Yoga, that is the system I am trying to streamline. Since we know Guhyajnana Dakini is mistress of Four Dakinis mantra, and, she is the Heart of Avalokiteshvara, then, she works with Pandara, or Parasol, or Bhrkuti, which is appropriate since Lotus Family governs the stage of Pranayama.

    I think it would start with Atma Tattva and the Paramadya description of Vajrasattva and end with Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini.





    Quote One way or another, they end with, usually, Vajrasattva just entirely melts into you, and then everything reduces to Voidness and so you use Purity mantra.

    Melts into the heart, in the version I learned.
    Yes, This is an outer purification, and, so, slightly different ways of doing it will work the same way. Again, meaning it is something appropriate, you found it in the Dharma somewhere.

    He may have been on your head, or, you could put him on the sky or ground, the important thing here is the Samaya. Make and uphold a Bond of Dignity to him. And I can say that if you have this even at a basic purificatory level it really works, i. e. if you go out into the world and defile your Samaya you are going to feel it.

    That is why I confess to Vajrasattva continuously and use his mantra at odd moments outside of sadhanas.

    And if you work with him, it becomes that it not only applies to common-sense violations, he will start letting you know when you counteract the growth of Void Gnosis, in other words if you do something that is bad for Bodhi Mind, you will feel it.

    If you take him seriously, he will make a very good disciple out of you. That is all you have to do! Just be serious and follow along as if your life was already over and you are just his property. If not then you will get lots of messages that Death can come any moment.





    Quote Pandaravasini is literally "the white robed one", she is pink, the robes are white. As I said in yesterday's response, I have seen her, that is also what she looked like then.
    She was one of the ones that first appeared standing on my heart (not all of them at the same time).
    Interesting.

    Pink is rare, in GST it is Pink Vajradhatvishvari in Union with Vairocana in the East.

    It is not just the two halves of Male and Female Bindus or Upper and Lower, it is Buddha and Lotus Families.

    The impression I get is of something like a Red-to-White spectrum, something that is solid red which turns to white.

    I am more familiar with a bold dark red like blood like Mahamaya Vijayavahini.

    I see pink, yellow, blue, and green phosphenes constantly, but, with auras or the inner eye, I do not get the same pink or the hotter scarlets of Vajravarahi et al.

    Again, I believe this is expressed in Mahakarunika, when the spelling is corrected to Vyuha Rajaya, it means Avalokiteshvara is the King of Producing and Comprehending the Display of Vairocana.



    Quote When we were discussing the Butchou (Japanese for Buddhosnisa), there was one listed in JAANUS:

    Quote Another important Butchou is Shijoukou Butchou 熾盛光仏頂,...
    This Butchou's name (in Kanji which is really used directly from Chinese in these cases) literally means "blazing flaming light Buddhosnisa".
    They may have Jvalosnisa there. Such Dharanis exist in the orient which is why Imee Ooi sings them.





    namaḥ samanta-buddhānām apratihata-śāsanānāṃ tadyathā oṃ kha kha khā hi khā hi hūṃ hūṃ jvala jvala prajvala prajvala tiṣṭhā tiṣṭhā ṣṭriṣṭri sphaṭ sphaṭ śāntika śrīye svāhā

    That is the only way to retrieve something that otherwise is probably in some dusty archive in Tibet.

    This is the kind of thing you cannot make up, I wondered why she said Sphat, which sounded like "Crystal", but is a verb meaning to open or expand. What is bizarre is that the definitions are loaded with places the words are used in books, usually lots of them if the word is used much, but there is only one example here, where it is in a footnote, followed by another explanatory footnote:

    stṛ, “to spread.”

    And so it looked to me like it was talking about Crystal Woman, but really, it is commanding the Blaze to Stand, Spread, Expand, Svaha Lady of Peace.

    However the footnotes happen to be found in History of Dipankara Buddha in Mahavastu, and, what is even doubly strange is that it has significant emphasis on Seven while describing his kingdom in ways that resound with Lankavatara and Avatamsaka Sutras. It iterates the Yaksha to Gandharva realm and portrays Kama Loka.

    Tusita is considered the most beautiful level:

    Tuṣita (तुषित).—There were twelve good devas called Tuṣitas in the Cākṣuṣa Manvantara. When the Cākṣuṣa Manvantara ended and the Vaivasvata Manvantara commenced all the twelve were born as sons of Kaśyapa of his wife Aditi. Because they were born of Aditi they were called Dvādaśādityas. They were Viṣṇu etc.

    Mahavastu is a pre-Mahayana book of Lokottara Vada, School of Transcendence, and that page is like a primordial stamp on all of the Sutras and Tantras. Since the stamp is there, I think it would be impossible to say that no-one understood the kind of in-depth development as in these later writings. There has also been found an earlier Prajnaparamita manuscript carbon-dated to ca. year 75.

    Anyway, there is a much more profound Dipankara than "prophesied Buddha's birth".

    Kha--Akash Hi Hum--Heart Blaze Blaze Forth Stand Spread Expand is the general sense of Jvalosnisa Dharani.



    Karma Family is not directly part of the Heart Chakra.

    The following is what could be called the basis of Buddhist Pranayama.

    The way we teach it is like the Three Jewels are the Three Vajras and these are the Three Families of Kriya, Buddha, Lotus, and Vajra. Now it could be learned just as the mantric version--for which this is about the only classical Sanskrit, non-Siddham image I can find:







    But I would strongly suggest to think of it at least at a Kriya Tantra level attached to Prajnaparamita. There are many, many Refuge Fields showing the centrality of her, but this simple thangka is like a stripped-down Refuge Field for someone like me who does not really even have a Guru, and so it is uncluttered with lineage holders.

    It is Vajradhara doing Pride of the Deity with Prajnaparamita--and, for the most part, they have inverted color schemes from each other:







    And so I have this written up in a bigger format with Sarasvati and so forth, but, what we will do here is just look at White Heruka Prajnaparamita and the syllables.

    We would do the Ngondro, and then I, personally, have never had anyone to over-write Vajradhara as Guru, and so I will use something like Calling from Afar, and if I just interact with him, it is Guru Yoga, except I am not any good at that so I ask him to show me something I might be able to understand and use from some other Murti. I am going to let him slip behind the curtain and some new scene emerges. In actuality I have never used that many, probably just Green Tara, Sita Vaideha, White Vajra Tara, Prajnaparamita, and Green Janguli.

    The Kagyu Ngondro always had Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra in it, so this is like taking a look at what someone was reading.



    From Void, a white Om from which grows a lotus, which opens holding a moon disk supporting White Prajnaparamita with Om, Ah, Hum in her Three Places, while invoking her:

    Om namo Bhagavatyai Arya Prajnaparamitayai







    OM – Body (Kaya Vajra): Located at the center of the forehead, representing embodied awareness, wholesome response and skillful action. White light radiates with the syllable “OM” at the center.

    AH – Speech (Vach Vajra): Located at the base of the throat, representing wisdom, expressing truth, wholesome “self-talk,” thinking and communication, as well as cultivating silence. Red light radiates with the syllable “AH” at the center.

    HUM – Mind (Citta Vajra): Located at the heart center, representing compassion, unity, loving intention, and the aspiration to alleviate one’s own and others’ suffering. Blue light radiates with the syllable “HUM” at the center. All mantras are contained in these syllables, as all Buddhas are in the Three Vajras.


    In order to get familiar with the syllables themselves, this is a nice Lama Yeshe basic syllables exercise:

    "Visualize a white OM in the center of your brain. Recognize that the OM is the pure energy of the divine body of the buddhas and bodhisattvas, or whoever you think is pure. Recite “OM” slowly for several minutes. While reciting it, visualize that white light radiates from the OM in your head and fills your body. All your conceptions and the impure energy of your body are cleansed and purified. (You can think of specific negative actions you have done — such as killing or harming another being, stealing, or unwise sexual behaviour—and feel that the imprints of these actions are completely purified.) Your entire body, from your feet up to the top of your head, is completely filled with radiant, blissful white energy. Really feel this...

    When you stop chanting “OM,” stay for a while in silence, and just be aware--not thinking anything is good or bad, not reacting, not making mental conversation. Just place all your attention on the light consciousness at the center of your brain. Be there. Be intensely aware and let go—without sluggishness, without distraction.

    Now visualize a red AH at your throat chakra. It looks similar to the sun when it is setting. Recognize that the AH is the pure speech energy of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. As you recite “AH” slowly for several minutes, visualize that red light radiates from the AH at your throat, and your entire body is embraced by this blissful radiating light energy. It purifies your speech. Purification means that the uncontrolled mind and speech work interdependently with each other. Negativities of speech mean harming and giving pain to others through lying, slander, harsh speech and gossip. You can imagine that the imprints of your negative actions of speech are completely purified by the blissful red light. Having a clean-clear mind and controlled speech is the way to purify impure and uncontrolled speech.

    After reciting AH for several minutes, let your mind just be in the state of intense
    awareness on your own consciousness. Stay there without any expectation or
    interpretation.... Comprehend your experience of the non-dual, non-self-existent
    I, nothingness, zero, empty space as truth, reality. This experience is much more
    real than your waking fantasy sensory world....

    If an uncontrolled, distracted thought comes, remember that not only you, but
    all other sentient beings are in this situation, so cultivate much loving-kindness
    for others. Then, when loving-kindness arises, direct intense awareness of
    loving-kindness towards your own consciousness. So there are two things: place intense awareness on your own consciousness, and when distractions arise, generate loving-kindness for all beings and then direct intense awareness of loving-kindness to your consciousness. Alternate these two.

    Next, visualize your loving-kindness energy manifesting at your heart chakra in the aspect of a full moon. Visualize at your heart, on a moon disc, a blue radiating HUM. Recognize that this is the non-duality wisdom of the buddhas and bodhisattvas’ energy. Your heart is pure, cool, and calm, opened by the radiating light of the moon and HUM. Infinite blue light radiates from the HUM, and fills your entire body. Your entire body feels blissful. All narrow thoughts disappear. All indecisive minds disappear. All obsessed minds disappear. Being embraced by the infinite blue light leaves no room for fanatical, dualistic concepts. Visualize this while reciting “HUM” slowly for a few minutes. After this, feel infinite blue light, like your consciousness, embracing the entire universal reality. Your intense awareness is embracing the entire universal reality. Feel and be, without any expectation or superstition. ... "


    Muttering means we are going to chant the Three Syllables over and over with the intent and visualization as described, and while we are doing this, it affects Prajnaparamita, and we want to go to a climax until her Three Lights sunburst and she melts through them into our Three Places. We do something in that condition which is probably Dhyana, and then we are going to reverse the layers we opened, and go back to Guru and thank him for the assistance and dedicate whatever benefits may arise from our practice to the welfare of all sentient beings.

    Hum is Vajra Family of the Heart, Prajnaparamita, the Yoshid or Vajra Ladies, the Indestructible Drop.




    So what we are doing in Yoga is Seva and Upasadhana. And what we are calling Buddhist Pranayama is the beginning of Upasadhana. It means we are training in the Method to do Sadhana, which is Smrti, which is Seven Syllable deity, which is Sadhana. And so if we review with Lamp and look at it in terms of Vajrasattva is Upaya, then, this is practically all about him becoming Smrti, and certainly based in the Khasama Tantra.


    The different layers of the outer Kriya-Cara to symbolic inner Yoga are shown in the standard Indic custom of using a Lamp twice:

    Dīpa (दीप) refers to the “offering of a lamp”, representing one of the various services (upacāra) of a pūjā (ritualistic worship of a deity) which aim at the purification of the devotee.—A small lamp (dīpa) fed with ghee (Mar. nirañjan) is offered to the icon. According to an old custom a lamp is put near the guest before a meal (cf. naivedya) is served to him. In current practice this lamp is first waved clockwise in front of the icon several times, accompanied by the ringing of the bell. The ghee lamp is then placed at the right side of the icon. This act of worship is to be distinguished from the service [mahānīrājana-dīpa], where one waves burning camphor and a lamp in front of the icon accompanied by the singing of metrical compositions.


    We see a second lamp, Maha Nirajana Dipa, hotter from burning more wicks and camphor, with singing, and so it is exactly this which becomes the Mental Object of an Inner Homa, which, in Yoga terms, should correspond to inner heat and the discovery of nectar. And so one is remaining in this stage or practice level until able to personally verify the enhancements of prana.

    Nirajan is part of Upacara. "Upa" is "near or approaching". Whereas Kriya was just used to mean repetition, action, in the outer sense, the Cara that is being Approached tends to have meanings of "moving around to gather information", such as:

    cāra (चार).—m S A spy, scout, secret emissary. 2 A messenger; a herald.


    And then in Buddhism, it has a much more specific meaning:

    Source: Dhamma Dana: Pali English Glossary
    F (Access concentration).

    Source: Journey to Nibbana: Patthana Dhama
    Upacara means proximity, crownprince. It is sometimes called proximate concentration.

    In other words, a pre-samadhi, or an initial samadhi granting access to more.

    And so this must have almost the same meaning as Upasadhana in the GST:


    Upāya (उपाय, “means”) refers to the “process of various experiences through which the Sādhaka has to pass before the deity is realised and visualised”.—The Guhyasamāja (chapter 18) calls this process Upāya (means) which is recognised as of four kinds.

    The four upāyas are:—

    Sevā (worship),
    Upasādhana,
    Sādhana,
    Mahāsādhana.

    Sevā (worship) is again sub-divided into two, namely, Sāmānya (ordinary) and Uttama (excellent). Of these two, the Sāmānya-sevā consists of four Vajras: first, the conception of Śūnyatā; second, its transformation into the germ-syllable; third, its evolution in the form of a deity, and the fourth, the external representation of the deity.

    In the Six Yogas:

    seva (practice) corresponds to pratyahara and dhyana, upasadhana (near-realization) to pranayama and dharana, and sadhana (realization) to anusmrti. Implicitly mahasadhana (great realization) is related to samadhi.

    Seva, which we can legitimately call "service", is the same as "practice".

    And so there are Six Yogas, but, they are kind of blocked off in pairs, since we might say the first set, Pratyahara and Dhyana, are still somewhat similar to any kind of Yoga, may not yet have the Buddhist character, and is like a challengers' field, wherein it will be seen if your capabilities are limited to the most literal or mundane or perhaps "superstitious". This is Seva. It has most of the same vocabulary as Indian spirituality in gerneral.

    If not, then "our" Upacara loses the generic meaning of categories of ritual items and actions and is Upasadhana, an Access Concentration, Pranayama, a training ground for Sadhana as no longer an external Puja, but a move through tantric states of being.

    The real Sadhana then is Smrti, which produces a tantric samadhi appropriate for Highest Yoga.

    That is why we are mostly talking about the development of the ability of Sadhana or Smrti.


    Parasol was among the first Buddhist definitions of Samadhi, and her emanation in Karma Family:

    Vajraśṛṅkhalā (वज्रशृङ्खला) is the name of Dūtī (i.e., messengers of Lord Vajrapāṇi) mentioned as attending the teachings in the 6th century Mañjuśrīmūlakalpa.

    To the Jains, Vajrashrnkala is a Yakshini named Kali.

    E. śṛṅga a horn, here said to mean a link, and khal to collect, aff. ac; or śiñjā the tinkling of a chain, and skhal to go, aff. ac, deriv irr.

    Vajrashrnkala is the Activity of Samadhi, Vajraraudri is the Path of it--not the Mental Object or Dharmadhatu Vajra itself, but the underlying Sense Faculty of Consciousness, which operates when objects lose their duality as opposite from self or subject.


    Chain is also the idea behind Guru Parampara and behind the meaning of "param-" as "infinite", i. e., whatever is linked to a thing, containing every link.

    Shrnkala does not get used in many compounds, although there is a
    Dipashrnkala.


    There is a pretty decent way to map Access Concentration and Samadhi. The classification of Six Yogas more or less arranges all the literature and sadhanas, whereas Abhisambodhi is narrower and is sort of within or is a particular way of doing a sadhana in this Yoga system.
    Last edited by shaberon; 11th January 2021 at 10:08.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    I was a little surprised by the appearance of "Upacara" as I was not familiar with it.

    It actually does not come from the Sutras, it comes from Vishuddhimagga, and it kind of at the heart of a modern Theravada debate.

    That really came out of the bag of Col. Olcott, he revived it.

    They argue about whether Samadhi is necessary for Vispassana--Insight, which they say is more important.

    Now in their description, it is a bit loose since they always use the term "samadhi" at every turn, for instance it is Upacara Samadhi. They say:

    There can be numerous kinds of samādhi. Here we distinguish three types of samādhi or mindfulness:

    Momentary mindfulness (khanika samādhi)
    Access mindfulness (upacāra, pronounced “upachāra,” samādhi)
    Absorption mindfulness (appanā samādhi)

    I think for Mahayana purposes, we are only calling the last one Samadhi, and the pre-cursors would be more like Ekagatta and Sati. Nothing momentary or transient about the Samadhi we have in mind.

    They say:

    Samādhi (“sama”+”adhi” where “sama” means “same” and “adhi” means “dominance”) means the object becomes the priority. Then the mind gets focused on it. As we discussed in many posts when the mind becomes focused on one object (ārammana), the ekaggata cetasika takes over and makes the mind latched “on to it.”

    That is how one gets to not only samādhi but also anāriya jhāna using breath meditation, just by focusing the mind on the breath.
    One gets to samādhi on whatever the activity one gets absorbed in.
    Being mindful depends on the situation. The kind of mindfulness needed while driving a car is different from the mindfulness required to design something (or read a book). And the mindfulness required to attain a jhāna needs to be different from those two.


    So, driving is more like Momentary or Khanika--you can concentrate one-pointedly while still shifting across many external objects.

    Reading, etc., is more of Upacara--steadier and with fewer distractions.

    A letter makes a difference. Sama + adhi? I am not sure. I thought it was Sama plus Dhi, since Dhi is the root syllable of Dhyana and is the syllable of Sarasvati since Vedic times and also a syllable of Manjushri. Similarly, Khahi is usually written as one word, which looks like Kha plus Ahi, whereas the way shown in Imee's version splits it to make Hi a separate word which is a verb.

    Here is a response from Stack Exchange:

    The process of concentration as described in the Abhidhammattha Sangaha (IX 17, 18):

    When that sign has been thoroughly apprehended and enters into range of the mind door just as if it were seen by the eye, then it is called the learning sign, and that meditation becomes concentrated. When one is thus concentrated, one then applies oneself to meditation by means of that preliminary [parikamma] concentration based on the learning sign. As one does so, an object which is the counterpart of that (learning sign) becomes well established and fixed in the mind -- (an object) which is freed of the flaws of the original object, reckoned as a concept, born of meditation. Then it is said that the counterpart sign has arisen.

    Thereafter, access [upacāra] development is accomplished, consisting in concentration of the sense sphere in which the obstacles have been abandoned.

    Fast forward to our current century:

    Access concentration is characterized by the significant reduction or complete dropping of the five hindrances and the arising and strengthening of jhāna factors. [...] It is easy to confuse momentary concentration with access concentration. One difference is that with access concentration, the meditator's continuity with the object is much longer and more stable over time. Another difference is that with access concentration, the object is much more energized and "bright". [...] In access concentration, the jhāna factors are present but insufficiently strong for full absorption into jhāna.

    -- Stephen Snyder & Tina Rasmussen (Practicing the Jhānas)

    or more broadly speaking:

    The Buddhist tradition has introduced the term upacāra samadhi [...] to refer to a non absorptive experience of concentration that begins with the arising of the counterpart sign and endures until consciousness enters into full absorption. Upacāra samadhi implies concentration that is in the vicinity of jhāna [...] and describes the experiences that precede absorption, but it does not necessarily leads to jhāna. It may refer to the conditions that precede jhāna; it may refer to experiences that are reminiscent of first jhāna mental factors, but without the seclusion of absorption; and it may describe the mature concentration that accompanies those meditation objects (such as discernment of the body parts, and various recollections) that do not have the potential to reach full absorption. [...] Some meditators use the term upacāra samādhi so loosely that it merely describes the feeling of being concentrated and a mind that is stable and happy during meditation.

    -- Shaila Catherine (Wisdom Wide and Deep)


    If we re-arrange the vocabulary somewhat, we would still use the summation from the Pali site:

    Samādhi is the endpoint of being mindful (sati).

    Samādhi is a synonym for the cetasika (mental factor) of ekaggata, i.e., having a focus. One can cultivate it by being mindful the correct way, i.e., via sammā sati.


    Wiki's Dhyana in Buddhism is a reasonable article which begins:

    In the oldest texts of Buddhism, dhyāna (Sanskrit) or jhāna (Pāḷi) is the training of the mind, commonly translated as meditation, to withdraw the mind from the automatic responses to sense-impressions, and leading to a "state of perfect equanimity and awareness (upekkhā-sati-parisuddhi)." Dhyāna may have been the core practice of pre-sectarian Buddhism, in combination with several related practices which together lead to perfected mindfulness and detachment, and are fully realized with the practice of dhyana.


    "Leading to a state" means those are the qualities of the Fourth Jana:

    Upekkha Sati Parishuddhi

    Upekkha or Upeksha is the most important quality, starting in the Four Brahma Vihara and continuing into Seven Syllable deity at the seventh aspect.

    Sati or "mindfulnees" is a base-level word which would apply to all activities in ordinary waking consciousness, but, due to changeable or altered states of consciousness, goes through various synonyms.

    Parishuddhi is also what is being done the the Dharmadhatu--or, all the purificatory stages of the Dharmadhatu are the Bodhisattva Path.

    The Wiki article suggests that Buddha's two Gurus mean that he learned both Element and Formless meditation--so again, it is more like "both, together", than one at the expense of the other.

    Upacara means that one has overcome the Five Hindrances or Nivarani, which are not the Skandhas, but obvious types of Vitarka or discursion or distraction that would obviously burden Mindfulness or Sati.

    And so while it may not be clear why Samadhi has been drop-kicked way beyond all the cumulative iterations of "concentration" where it used to be, if we just want to blot it out and know that we would learn its meaning within the state of Access Concentration, this will work, since Access Concentration has a specific point within Puja or Seva as well as within the Six Yogas:

    Upacara, restraining the Hindrances, is the outer Nirajan, corresponding to Upasadhana, which is Pranayama and Dharana.


    The four upāyas of Guhyasamaja are:—

    Sevā [Pratyahara and Dhyana]

    Upasādhana [Pranayama and Dharana]

    Sādhana [Smrti]

    Mahāsādhana [Samadhi]


    So I guess I can't say that is the specific "Buddhist" definition of Samadhi, since many of them use it to denote inferior things. It is, moreso, the Buddhist Sadanga Yoga definition of Samadhi. Dhyana, here, is perhaps the first two or three dhyanas or janas.

    Upacara or Upasadhana is therefor a huge, major change to a being. Many people would think they can meditate without Hindrances. Not many would think they can master Pranayama as we show it, let alone Retain it indefinitely.


    If Sadhana is really a "technique", a type of inner puja, it still uses the same Ekaggata that will be universally carried out into mundane life, and so the real Vajrayana Deity Yoga carries all that divine force with it and the mundane disappears.

    Until then, Mahayana is more like a divided struggle where we try to achieve a divine state in our meditations, and then we feel like the world is a hostile place that overwhelms and ruins our mindfulness and divinity.

    That is why you can be a Mahayanist without doing sadhanas. Comparatively, it is slower and more difficult.

    Sadhana is the Upaya of Luminous Mind. So we would know we were doing good with Upasadhana or Upacara or Prayanama--Dharana when this Luminous Mind becomes real to us.

    Upacara containing the Form Janas already has Bliss in it, so, Piti, ecstatic bodily states, and altered mental states are part and parcel of it. Perhaps you can visualize or see ordinary things mentally. So it definitely corresponds to an esoteric transition. But there is an obvious border between all of that and Luminous Mind. "Accomplishment" of Upacara said something pretty similar to a Mind Object arises as a Luminous Mind Object. If truly Accomplished, that Accomplishment is the seed for the next stage. Here, it seems mainly about Hindrances (Nivarani), whereas Sadhana is more about stopping the Skandhas. The definition of Nivarana says Hindrances are temporarily suppressed at this stage, are not completely stopped until entering the super-mundane path as Srotistipanna, Anangamin, and Arhat.

    In Prajnaparamita Sutra:

    If he has been able to reject the five sense objects (kāmaguṇa) and remove the five obstacles (nīvaraṇa), the ascetic practices the five dharmas:

    aspiration (chanda),
    exertion (vīrya),
    mindfulness (smṛti),
    clear seeing (saṃprajñāna),
    concentration of mind (cittaikāgratā).
    By practicing these five dharmas, he acquires the first dhyāna furnished with five members (pañcāṅga-samanvāgata).

    Nivarana is not all that rare, as in the Kamakshi Devi song, but it only comes up one time in Sadhanamala, on Sahasra Pramardani in the weird Pancha Raksa 206, who is in Vajra Family, but in her mantra is Amritavara.

    Upacara is near the beginning with Gandha Offering and Acala, and then again on Vajra Tara 94:

    atrāyaṃ upacāraḥ

    which is like using the name Angiras, it has little possible other meaning than Upacara according to the Gotra of Rishi Atreya. This comes right before Saptabhi mantra, which, according to Srila Prabhupada, means Seven times Three. It must be a quite rare word, found one time in Sanskrit RGV. But it is standard for Patancala Tara Dharani.

    Kurukulla 174 does not have regular Offering Goddesses, but, she notably has:

    nairṛtyadale pradīpatārāṃ

    She has Prasanna Tara, Nispanna Tara, Jaya Tara, Karna Tara, Cunda, Aparajita, Pradipa Tara, and Gauri Tara.

    This suggests, to me, the mysteriously vacant Cundi Dharani is more related to Kurukulla's line of development, which here, has mysterious stuff inside of it, such as Nispanna would seem to refer to Completion Stage. This Prasanna is, I would wager, highly important, she has no outer forms and no development other than here with Kurukulla. And so she has one personal sadhana which is brief, but, she has a grandiose tantric form and it called Amrita Locana, which again is far along in the line of the Divine Eye or Divya Caksus, then Buddha Eye--Locana, Gagana Locana, and other upgrades on Locana.

    Prasanna is like a Lotus Family energetic parallel of Amaravajra.

    Sakyamuni Buddha came to Nepal valley and stayed in Svayambhugopuchagraparvat. He firstly granted Buddhist ordination to a lady named Cunda and narrated the account on origin of Adi-buddha (Svaymbujyotirupa) and on origin of Nepal.

    In the Dharani goddesses, Cunda is Kamandalu--Initiation Pitcher.

    Now, hang on, because there is a second Vajrakilaya scheme in which Vajrakumara is re-named to Mahabala. In this format of Vajrakilaya, Cunda is with Mahabala at the base of the spine or Amoghasiddhi location.

    So I am prepared to stick with she is something like an Inverted Parasol.

    Cunda of course has a major form, but has no personal explanation of how it came to be. And so the Cunda with Kurukulla is likely the product of Cunda from Guhyasamaja who also has one solo form or sadhana.

    Cunda's arms or items represent upaya, or the normally male "means". She has Jewel attributes such as picula fruit and a lemon.

    Sakya Raksita explains her solo practice from the speech of Pandita Purna Vajra. On a lotus and moon disc is a white Cum syllable from which White Twenty-six Arm Cunda arises, crowned by Five Buddhas, surrounded by red light. Her faces are white, blue, and yellow. She is semi-wrathful with hair in a top knot. Millions of Buddhas reside in her pores. On a moon disc in her heart is her syllable, with her mantra on the eight petals of a white lotus. She has Om Ah Hum in her three places. And she uses the seed syllable, Heart Mantra, and then the mantra with the previous line the way Imee sings it. Even when recited wrongly by an old woman with faith, it nevertheless enabled her to make food by cooking stones.

    It starts "Namah samanta Buddhanam" instead of "Namah saptanam", but otherwise has no more complex dharani, from Taranatha 163. If anything, this change makes it resemble Vairocana Abhisambodhi mantras.

    Here, the Buddhas are in her pores, Kurukulla is Nectar Sweat, Ekajati is sweat-born from Buddha.


    This form is then important with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra's "bonus" deities. He personally emanates Locana and Cunda.

    Cunda NE
    Ratnolka SE
    Bhrkuti SW
    Vajrashrnkala NW

    He has Cunda, Ratnolka or Dhvajagrakeyura--Banner, and then two kinds of Parasol.

    The subtle detail of this rite is that Ratnasambhava failed to emanate a Prajna.

    What happens is that Manjuvajra has kicked Locana out of any of her prior roles in the center in Buddha Family, and gifted her to Vajra Family. Consequently, Akshobya has gifted Mamaki to Jewel Family.

    He has usurped Locana because he has Sparshavajra or Vajradhatvishvari, i. e. he has started the tantric process of pulling his sense of Touch out of Air--Entire Surface and inwardly sensitized it to Prana and Space--Akash.

    So there is a trend of motion altering a basic Quintessence shown with Manjuvajra, Kurukulla, and Vajrakilaya, if the presence of Cunda is any kind of a bridge between them. I think so.

    Some of the Namasangiti Dharanis do not have an identifiable goddess such as:

    Sarva Varana Vishodani

    For the time being, it seemed to me to use Mahamaya Vijayavahini Dharani here, I am pretty sure if we double-check, she is a Nivarani remover.




    Of course, we have deities and sadhanas that are not yet "Sadhana" as an ingrained Method or Upaya of Luminous Mind. The lower or outer deities are the Kriya-Chara and Yoga Path. Guhyasamaja is the "how-to" of Highest Yoga which is taking the capitalized Sadhana for granted.

    Upasadhana makes a lot of sense--it holds the philosophical meanings of Upacara, and incorporates the building blocks of Sadhana as mantras, mandala features, or deities, while uniting these with tantric Pranayama. We can do the real Sadhana when Smrti is a Luminous Vajrasattva.

    I, for one, could sweep away all the time cycles and humanized "no one to understand it" as we still have now, and pin this on Dipankara and Swayambhu Adi Buddha and Guhyeshvari, almost relegating Gautama Buddha to something of a revivalist, who forces his relevance by providing the school we have in modern times, i. e. I am able to say something about Dipankara because it has been transmitted to us by Buddha's memory.

    Parasol must be linked to Buddha and Dipankara mentally, so, we are in a position to gain mental continuity with all of it.

    She has never had any objective existence, is a Mental Object, and so could not be perceived by anything less than Upacara.

    So she could be the Learning Sign and the Counterpart Sign as mentioned in Abhidharma.


    When a Dhyana or Jana is infused to the point where it has no awareness of the external environment, and uninterrupted continuity to the Mental Object, that is Sampatti, the tantric Gauris.

    So the Samadhi of Sadanga Yoga is inexpressible without tantric deities. I would not know how to put it in Theravada terms. It is not really a contradiction or refutal of the Pali, but, something that takes a bit of critical analysis to see that it is mainly the same thing in a specific usage, the technique or Method or Upaya of Sadhana.

    Here is a Rime'-era Karma Kagyu Amitayus who has Pink Pandara with Vase:






    Day-Night Tara emerges from Padmapani's heart, and Mahamaya Vijayavahini is Padmapani Priya, his love or consort.

    She is less like an Usnisa because she is:

    sarvatathagatahrdayagarbhe

    Her attributes are that All Tathagatas' Wisdom is Refuge from all the Varanas she splits away, and one of her "held attributes" becomes "final samadhi":

    Mahamayavijayavahini smara smara
    sarvatathagatajnanarupendgaccha gaccha sarvavaranaksayamkari
    parasainyavidrapani

    She is Maha Maya Jala and Consecration to Maha Mandala:

    mahāmaṇḍalādhiṣṭhite

    Pandara has limited deployment in sadhanas.

    RG 152 is Eleven Face Thirty-two Arm White Amoghapasha, made of Hindu deities, who splits into Vishvesvara and Pandaravasini. His heart mantra refers to Pashupati and Padma Kula Samaya. Pandara is "similar in aspect", so White. She says:

    Om Padme Pandaravasini Kunda Kunda Svaha

    Kunda is a synonym for Padma, Kamala, Nilotpala, particularly with respect to Kashmir. It could also be jasmine, or a fire pit, but most likely is simply lotus here.

    Padma Tara, white with a reddish luster, is with the next Eleven Face Lokeshvara 153. Eight Fears Lokeshvara 151 uses Mani Tara, these are all from Pandita Purna Vajra, preceded by his version of Bodhisattvas, followed by the same of White Six Arm Sukhavati Lokeshvara and Red Two Arm Sukhavati Lokeshvara. So in that group, you find one Om Mani Tare Hum, followed by a set of Om Padme Tare Hum.


    M. Boord perhaps does not only use the unattested name Trptachakra. Kila is also in Guhyasamaja:

    This basic exemplar is amplified in the verses which follow where it is said that, in order to destroy the body, one recites the mantra OM CHINDA CHINDA HANA HANA DAHA DAHA DIPTAVAJRACAKRA HOM PHAT and strikes the vajrakila into the head ("the dwelling of Vairocana") of (an effigy of) the victim. Death will occur as soon as he is struck.

    It is pertinent to note that the mantra given here corresponds in several particulars to that of VajrakiIa's consort Trptacakra or Dlptacakra, whose seed syllables in the rNyingrna school under consideration in this work are HANA HANA HOM PHAT. 246

    246. This mantra is to be found in the MMK (p. 395) where it ends DiPTACAKRA HUM and is called the mantra of the dharmacakra. It is said to destroy all klesas and so on and, most significantly, to fulfil the desires of the yogin by allowing him to "un-nail" them (utkilayati) as he wishes.


    Parasol's repetitive use of Chinda and Kila is similar to this.

    Tibetan dictionary:

    She is also in Bolt of Lightning from the Blue, where in China, it is Cunda the Impellor.

    tsun du - cunda (emanation of rdo rje sems dpa’, 4 arms peaceful, 16 arms wrathful)
    Last edited by shaberon; 12th January 2021 at 05:40.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Pink is rare, in GST it is Pink Vajradhatvishvari in Union with Vairocana in the East.

    It is not just the two halves of Male and Female Bindus or Upper and Lower, it is Buddha and Lotus Families.
    I had thought Pandaravasini is the consort of Amitabha.

    Quote Kha--Akash Hi Hum--Heart Blaze Blaze Forth Stand Spread Expand is the general sense of Jvalosnisa Dharani.
    Isn't Usnisa by definition at the crown? Why the heart here?

    Quote From Void, a white Om from which grows a lotus, which opens holding a moon disk supporting White Prajnaparamita with Om, Ah, Hum in her Three Places, while invoking her:

    Om namo Bhagavatyai Arya Prajnaparamitayai
    What is the mudra she is using in the picture? Prajnaparamita in sculptures is usually doing dharmachakra mudra, here she is holding the flowers, but it seems like her hands are still that shaped.

    Quote In order to get familiar with the syllables themselves, this is a nice Lama Yeshe basic syllables exercise:
    In my shaking, most of my interaction with Prajnaparamita is because she is related to Cunda. I am trying to think if the centers are the same as here. I think they may be shifted, because the top one is really at my throat.

    Quote Dīpa (दीप) refers to the “offering of a lamp”, representing one of the various services (upacāra) of a pūjā (ritualistic worship of a deity) which aim at the purification of the devotee.—A small lamp (dīpa) fed with ghee (Mar. nirañjan) is offered to the icon. According to an old custom a lamp is put near the guest before a meal (cf. naivedya) is served to him. In current practice this lamp is first waved clockwise in front of the icon several times, accompanied by the ringing of the bell. The ghee lamp is then placed at the right side of the icon. This act of worship is to be distinguished from the service [mahānīrājana-dīpa], where one waves burning camphor and a lamp in front of the icon accompanied by the singing of metrical compositions.
    This bears some similarity (with the ghee lamp at least) with a less formal practice used to celebrate Diwali. I wonder if that one is supposed to have this significance.

    Quote There is a pretty decent way to map Access Concentration and Samadhi. The classification of Six Yogas more or less arranges all the literature and sadhanas, whereas Abhisambodhi is narrower and is sort of within or is a particular way of doing a sadhana in this Yoga system.
    I am entering a phase in my shaking where dreams are becoming somehow important, I don't know exactly how that is going to work out yet. I just know that the 'preliminary' shakings during the night that are sometimes used to get me ready for the main one have some of them been replaced by vivid dreams, in the same sequence, but without apparent meaning to the dreams themselves as far as the shaking is concerned.

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    Quote They argue about whether Samadhi is necessary for Vispassana--Insight, which they say is more important.

    Now in their description, it is a bit loose since they always use the term "samadhi" at every turn, for instance it is Upacara Samadhi. They say:

    There can be numerous kinds of samādhi. Here we distinguish three types of samādhi or mindfulness:

    Momentary mindfulness (khanika samādhi)
    Access mindfulness (upacāra, pronounced “upachāra,” samādhi)
    Absorption mindfulness (appanā samādhi)

    I think for Mahayana purposes, we are only calling the last one Samadhi, and the pre-cursors would be more like Ekagatta and Sati. Nothing momentary or transient about the Samadhi we have in mind.
    I don't have any feeling for the samadhi-vispassana debate, the two seem more overlapping than one as a prerequisite for the other. But I would also not have said one is more important than the other. But their use of samadhi is closer to the way I have seen it used.

    Above you had put smrti in a higher position than you are now seeming to put sati. Aren't they Sanskrit and Pali for the same word?

    Quote On a lotus and moon disc is a white Cum syllable from which White Twenty-six Arm Cunda arises, crowned by Five Buddhas, surrounded by red light. Her faces are white, blue, and yellow. She is semi-wrathful with hair in a top knot. Millions of Buddhas reside in her pores. On a moon disc in her heart is her syllable, with her mantra on the eight petals of a white lotus. She has Om Ah Hum in her three places. And she uses the seed syllable, Heart Mantra, and then the mantra with the previous line the way Imee sings it. Even when recited wrongly by an old woman with faith, it nevertheless enabled her to make food by cooking stones
    .

    This sounds like a lot of the descriptions I'm going through in the Avatamsaka Sutra. The Cunda that identifies during my shaking is closely related to Prajnaparamita, and 'speaks' of her as if they are aspects of the same thing.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Pink is rare, in GST it is Pink Vajradhatvishvari in Union with Vairocana in the East.

    I had thought Pandaravasini is the consort of Amitabha.

    Yes. Vajradhatvishvari just happens to be an example of Pink in this specific instance.


    Quote Kha--Akash Hi Hum--Heart Blaze Blaze Forth Stand Spread Expand is the general sense of Jvalosnisa Dharani.
    Isn't Usnisa by definition at the crown? Why the heart here?[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but, Usnisa deities are simply emanated from Buddha's mind/usnisa...nothing has limited them to only being that center. As males, they simply are the Dhyanis or Tathagatas, so male Vajrosinsa = Vajra Family = Akshobya.

    Nothing says female Usnisas were emanated in a ring of eight matching standard iconography. I can only come up with four, wherein Vajrosnisa - Parasol, which is not necessarily a Family but probably in the wider sense like "Vajrayana".



    Quote Om namo Bhagavatyai Arya Prajnaparamitayai


    What is the mudra she is using in the picture? Prajnaparamita in sculptures is usually doing dharmachakra mudra, here she is holding the flowers, but it seems like her hands are still that shaped.
    Correct--same! Just that the Lotus grows from the gesture.

    The shape of the gesture itself is the eye of a peacock plume whose quill rests in the Initiation Vase.


    Quote This bears some similarity (with the ghee lamp at least) with a less formal practice used to celebrate Diwali. I wonder if that one is supposed to have this significance.
    I think it is all roughly identical, it is all based in the same Homa.

    Orthodox Homa uses male Varuna to bless the holy water, whereas tantric Buddhist Homa uses female Varuni to provide a magical fluid.

    Other than that, Buddhist Homa has only certain differences from the Orthodox, such as adding a Deity Yoga usually based on Chakrasamvara, and then, using Agni himself according to the Buddhist manner.

    Those would be the visible differences, and the esoteric differences are in how it pertains to Generation and Completion Stages, that is, the Six Yogas.

    If a great deal of Chakrasamvara is a majority copy of Shiva's information, but, then, the main practice called Six Yogas in each is a totally different beast, they are not the same, difficult though it may be to tell.

    If Dipa is symbolic as the symbol which changes from any lamp used in Diwali into metaphysical heat which we can feel loosening up a nectar flow like warm wax, and Dipta is an increased Dipa, Kalachakra has for his inmost ring, foul colored Diptas, Blue, Red, Yellow, and Sveta--White Dipta in the cardinal directions, and in the corners--Four Dissolutions:


    1. Dhuma

    2. Marlci

    3. Pratlpa

    4. Khadyota

    He then goes on to confuse everything with couples such as Vairocana--Tara; for the most part, he uses a lot of our same deities, but they often have different forms and locations, he is very much his own "brand" which is nearly incomprehensible to everything else which is in NSP. Almost all of the other material is related in steps and handoffs. But Kalachakra's core tells a little something, again just a bit weird since Kadyota is usually third.



    Quote I am entering a phase in my shaking where dreams are becoming somehow important, I don't know exactly how that is going to work out yet. I just know that the 'preliminary' shakings during the night that are sometimes used to get me ready for the main one have some of them been replaced by vivid dreams, in the same sequence, but without apparent meaning to the dreams themselves as far as the shaking is concerned.
    Sadhana per se as a "level of instruction/practice" is the cleansing of Dream State, is heavily related to Dream Yoga, and often produces a dreamlike quality to ordinary waking consciousness. That all is part of Luminosity.

    I am a person who had what is called "repetitive dreams", such as from the time I was young, I sometimes dreamed of a tidal wave.

    As I figured out how to get a basic sadhana to work as Guru Yoga, the tidal wave diminished, and other related dreams of being stuck in swampy, dark water were also reduced.

    Concurrently, I figured out how to fly in Vajrasana. I figured out how to control my direction and speed and so forth.

    I never new where I was going.

    A few times I reached a destination which was like partial ruins of a campus. It is like I want to know what that place is in my ordinary waking mind by forcing it in through sadhana, then I will know where I am going, and the rest of it is easy.

    I don't really know any "meaning of dreams" except the proportion of Lucidity and Luminousness should increase.

    Svapna Tara is particularly for this.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    But their use of samadhi is closer to the way I have seen it used.

    Above you had put smrti in a higher position than you are now seeming to put sati. Aren't they Sanskrit and Pali for the same word?
    Yes.

    Again, I think some of the Pali breaks down into its specific commentaries in Theravada, and I am just going for the general parallels. When I want to really listen to them, then ask them about Hrdaya Vastu. Then they have an extremely valuable explanation.

    And so yes, samadhi, sati, smrti, and ekaggata, all mean Mindfulness or Concentration.

    They are mostly trying to explain the Nine Dhyanas or Janas.

    Ekaggata could be highly evil, there is nothing spiritual in it.

    In Mahayana, we are simply going to rank the other synonyms into something like Sati = beginning, moral precepts and attempts at concentration and sharpness, which we bring to the Six Yogas.

    Smrti is a threshhold in the development of Vajrasattva according to the philosophies and sadhanas that work in the Six Yogas system.

    Samadhi is like a great gong thwacked by the mallet of Smrti.




    Quote This sounds like a lot of the descriptions I'm going through in the Avatamsaka Sutra. The Cunda that identifies during my shaking is closely related to Prajnaparamita, and 'speaks' of her as if they are aspects of the same thing.

    Very good.

    I put a bit more Cunda information in the large-ish post above. I cannot find any longer Roll of Thunder from Void on Archive. It turns out to be vol. two of M. Boord's first book that added the name Trptachakra. I see it from Germany in pdf but the thing stops very early. So it may be difficult to re-quote what Vajrakilaya does with Cunda. Often, they don't really say anything about "what happened", but just name her as being there.

    Cunda is used in GST and in the Manjuvajra lineage that emphasizes Yoga Tantra, and then winds up with Kurukulla so is part of Hevajra Krama.

    I am not 100% sure, but, it seems to me, most of the developmental and explanatory material pertains to Chakrasamvara, whereas Hevajra distinctly takes it for granted and starts with tantric Nairatma. And it also is more related to Darkness and Kama Dhatvishvari, whereas Chakrasamvara emphasizes every other kind of Dhatvishvari.

    Cunda also shows up in a rather interesting Sanskrit Catalog from the Beijing Imperial Palace.

    One of the first translations was Matangi.

    They have boatloads of dharanis. Here are a couple of things where we can detect Parasol:

    trisamaya raja krodharaja acala duta sadhana vidhi
    kani() krodha vajra kumari sadhana vidhi


    Sragdhara is Lotus Garland Tara and they have:

    marici devi puspamala sutra (sragdhara stotra)

    They have Ananta Mukha Dharani shortly followed by:

    mahasri sutra
    srimahadevi vyakarana
    janguli vidya

    indra guha sadhana vidhi (buddha tells vajrapani how to see maitreya
    in the indra cave)

    You have to go a couple hundred titles until you find Cunda and China will be shown to be suffused with the Namasangiti Dharanis and several corresponding tantras. The first thing is her Sadhana Kalpa which means it should have some kinf of background as to the how and why of her.

    Half of that stuff I have never heard of. It is an exclave repository for, example, Mahasri Sutra and Dharani, and Ananta Mukha and Shurangama, things that we have to specifically requisition because they are called for by their relatives.

    In GST, Diptachackra is the mantra of the Dharmachakra mudra....hmm.

    Diptachakra is called a Wrathful Green Tara, and yet is equivalently over-written by Cunda.


    The Bolt of Lightning text is another type of Vajrakilaya scan where the mantras are trashed and a good bit of it is mangled, but it does say something about the difference between Seva (Pratyahara and Dhyana) and Sadhana (Smrti):

    With regard to the ten true and false bodily colours: At the time of the ritual service (seva), [those deities in the] east [are] white, the south, yellow, west red, and north green..At the time of the accomplishment (sadhana), all of the deities are just dark blue.

    It seems to start some Tibetan terms for the Paramitas and then:

    ...so they should be known down to (A bsKul-byad (Cunda)/(BbsKyod-byed-ma (Sancalini).

    These are for the wrathful king of great strength and for his vajra queen Rig-byed-ma,15 as well as for the emanated goddesses with the heads of a bear and a rat who are their shape-shifting messengers.

    15 Peking and sDe-dge: munde mum. Peking and sDe-dge:kaiika. Creator of Awareness. Usually bsKul-byad-ma, Cunda, The Impellor. Peking and sDe-dge: vajraya+a sada.


    Rig byed ma is Kurukulla.

    Miranda Shaw gives the other name a common spelling of Kulchayma, and, circularly, translates Cunda or Tsun da into Bskul byed ma.

    Bskul and byed both show up in the dictionary under Urging, which agrees with Cunda the Impellor, which agrees with Cale Cule Cundi.

    It seems to me that Cunda becomes the consort of Mahabala. If at the base of the spine, this seems to be Karma Family.

    Solo Mahabala is an Amitabha emanation, usually in the northwest if in a retinue.

    Mahābala is described in the Niṣpannayogāvalī (mañjuvajra-maṇḍala) as follows:—

    “In the Vāyu corner appears Mahābala of blue colour with three faces of blue, white and red colour. He holds the triśula, the sword, the jewel and the lotus”.

    [As usual, with the principal hands he holds the śakti. In the vajrahūṃkāra-maṇḍala he is given the name of Mahākāla. But in the dharmadhātuvagīśvara-maṇḍala he is known as Paramāśva.]

    So there you have male Mahabala as Paramasva--Amoghasiddhi, or, at least, they over-write each other in the northwest position. Humkara says it specifically re-names the Wrathfuls; and then we would have to consider, how Mahabala is now associated with two Dhyanis, Amitabha and Amoghasiddhi.

    One rare definition of Mahabala similar to Paramasva is:

    1e) A Kinnara gaṇa, horse-faced.*

    * Vāyu-purāṇa 69. 32.


    In Vajradaka tantra, male and female Mahabala are in different couples:

    Mahābalā has for her husband the hero (vīra) named Padmanarteśvara. She is the presiding deity of Sindhu and the associated internal location are the ‘insteps’ and the bodily ingredients (dhātu) are the ‘tears’.

    2) Mahābala (महाबल) is the husband of Cakravegā: the name of a Ḍākinī (‘sacred girl’) presiding over Pretādhivāsinī.

    In Dakarnava, these couples remain, but then there is also Mahabali with Mahabala in the Heart Chakra.

    Female Mahabala has Padmanartesvara---Amitabha, the male one has Chakravega, similar to Diptachakra.

    As to their location:


    Melāpaka (मेलापक) is one of the Pīṭhādis (group of districts) present within the Kāyacakra (‘circle of body’) which is associated with the Ḍākinī named Pātālavāsinī (‘a woman living underground’),

    In the Pīṭhādi named Melāpaka:

    Pretādhivāsinī,
    Gṛhadevatā.

    There they are around the root center, or, more accurately, sex organ.

    It does seem like Cunda is going to the base of the spine and in some way is Candi, that is, Wrathjful Green Tara, while still being connected to Lotus Family. Northwest for Mahabala of course is the normal "transition" from Lotus to Karma.

    I would say it has a lot to do with the Four Chakra system in Pranayama governed by Lotus Family, versus, in the higher tantras, the base of the spine appears, in a way that is Extremely Wrathful, Flaming, Urging, and held by the Samadhi Goddess, Candi, after the Sadhana deities or Wrathful Ones have changed luminosity to dark blue, or perhaps made the first Mental Object, associated with the normal five colors, into a re-born one.


    Dakarnava's Body Mandala is the Kama Loka and Brahma Loka Divisions up to Akanistha, followed by Akasa and Vijnana as a gate to the Formless Dhyanas or Janas in the following manner from Prajnaparamita Sutra:

    Ākiṃcanyāyatana (आकिंचन्यायतन) referst to the “sphere of nothing at all” and represents one of the four Ārūpyasamāpatti (“formless absorptions”), according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra chapter 32. Of the four formless (ārūpya) absorptions, one, namely, the naivasaṃjñānā-saṃjñā-āyatana, is always impure (sāsrava). For the other three, one can single out: the ākāśānantya-āyatana is sometimes impure (sāsrava) and sometimes pure (anāsrava). If it is impure, this ākāśāyatana contains four impure aggregates (sāsrava-skandha); if it is pure, it contains four pure aggregates. It is the same for the vijñānānantya-āyatana and the ākiṃcanya-āyatana.

    The highest part of his Body Mandala includes:

    Akaniṣṭhavartinī & Akaniṣṭhacakravartin,
    Ākāśānantyāyatanī & Ākāśānantyāyatanacakravartin,
    Vijñānānantyāyatanī & Vijñānānantyāyatanacakravartin,
    Ākiṃcanyāyatanī & Ākiṃcanyāyatanacakravartin,
    Naivasaṃjñānāsaṃjñānī & Naivasaṃjñānāsaṃjñānacakravartin,
    Nārakī & Nārakacakravartin,
    Pretanī & Pretacakravartin,
    Tiryī & Tiryakacakravartin,
    Nārī & Nāracakravartin,
    Asurī & Asuracakravartin,
    Vimānacāriṇī & Vimānacakravartin,
    Śaśīravī & Śaśiravicakravartin,
    Yamī & Yamacakravartin,
    Indrī & Indracakravartin,
    Last edited by shaberon; 12th January 2021 at 10:28.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Cakravega the Elision

    As a proper name, she has just a few very specific instances.

    She is in the big Vajravarahi mandala, which is based on Abhidhanottara Tantra, where she is both physically close to Khandaroha, as well as in the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment as part of her Thirty-seven points. She is Joy, so, more than slightly related to Vajrasattva who is the Bhumi of Joy. She is also Joy in Luipa's Vajravarahi in Alex Wayman's book. She is so close to Khandaroha that these come up as the first two translations into Uighur and Mongolian. With syllables in Naro Dakini. Jamgon Kongtrul version. Described as Erect in Circle of Bliss. In the Varahi pattern, she inaugurates a ring ending on Cakra Varmini or Vartini.

    She is in Vajradaka, which is also a bit of an elision since it focuses on the Seven Jewels without going through all Thirty-seven opints.

    She is in Dakarnava, and somewhere at the end of Sadhanamala which we lack the original for.

    So she worms her way directly through our entire tantric scheme in a pretty specific way, having a nearly identical role in each of those.



    However, as a lower-case description of Shakti, it is very clear:

    The Self is the axle (of the Wheel) (ātmā-akṣaḥ…tu), the felloe is the world (jagat-vartaniḥ) and (ca) the spokes (arāṇi) are the outer and inner senses (dik-gāvau). Moreover (atas), the real nature of the process of the Wheel (cakra-krama-svabhāvaḥ) rotates (parivartate) with two speeds (javābhyām). |

    ...(It) is really (nāma) Her (sā) (who) is seen (dṛśyate) in the rotating movement of the Wheel of Consciousness (saṁvid-cakra-viparivartane).

    ...Self-awareness (ahaṃ-vimarśaḥ), (and) always (sadā) vibrates (spandate). Because of this (tataḥ) the Wheel of Consciousness (saṃvid-cakram) always (nitya-kālam) rotates (viparivartate).

    ...But (vā) when (yadā), because of (the birth of) individuality (vyastatāyāḥ), the speed of the Wheel (cakra-vegaḥ) slows down (rodhyate), then (tadā) the world (jagat) through the senses (indriyaiḥ) truly (eva) becomes visible (dṛśyate), consequently (atas) duality (bhedaḥ) prevails (pravartate).

    Although that is just some type of commentary, that is the general understanding in Brahmayamala Tantra tradition, closely related to Para Shakti:

    three Yoginis of Apară (embodied as the three syllables of her vidya) are Månası, Cakravega and Mohani


    So as a generic term, cakra vega is a right-angle, centrifugal, rotating, vibrating circle, compared to the male seed which is like a central axle or axis. Now for those of us with stretched-out minds, is it possible to see a kind of x-shaped, fourth dimensional tesseract version of this, yes, it is not just one's personal center, but like an expanding sponge or rising bread at every point, much as physics believes space itself expands at a rate determined by the Hubble constant.

    That is not really a number but a ratio, and its speed for an area the size of one's body comes up to around a nanometer per lifetime. Slow, but unceasing.

    But when mainly focused on oneself, it is a "higher speed" which strips away the sensory attachments, "fires up", and brings development as indicated. So when we say "Manas can look up or down", it is physiologically demonstrated by the "two speeds" of Cakravega.

    Her location is distinguished from clitoris which would be Khaganana in the listings, and so basically only refers to excited organs which may be placed in union.


    The big Heruka in Dakarnava is like a cosmic translation of the previous tantras which are primarily in one's body.

    It says there is an Ayatana for:

    Akasa

    Vijnana

    Akimcanya


    So in each of those subtle realms, if impure, or dualized, then Sasrava Skandhas will arise, which, according to the dictionary, is the same as Asrava, which if you would like to call that an Influx of Tears, that would be apt.

    So these three states have an either/or direction--as determined by Chakra Vega. The Nine Notions or Navasamjna are "always impure", i. e., these can only be thwarted and harnessed by wrathful practice.

    Ayatana is something like "sense faculty" called Indriya when weak, and Bala when strong. So the tantric procedure of being "under" Indra and then "identifying" him and eventually "replacing" him results in Bala, or, i. e. Mahabala.


    At the top of Kama Loka, within the Akanistha, Heruka says you will get a dualistic ordeal in Sky, Consciousness, and Void. So this is the closest Buddhist praxis to the Akashic or Mental plane as in Theosophy and the Puranas.

    If you satisfy all the requisites for "Nothigness", the final "element" here, then you would penetrate the Voids or higher Janas or Arupa or Formless Realms, which is the lowest edge of Heruka's Nirmana Manifestation, which is why this is cosmic or celestial.

    You are gated essentially by the illusory Mirror of Hrim and Maya, and the Moon Disk Mirror which is Manas on one side and Buddhi on the other. So Indrani is the culmination of this outer edge, complete conversion of Indriyas to Balas.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Correct--same! Just that the Lotus grows from the gesture.

    The shape of the gesture itself is the eye of a peacock plume whose quill rests in the Initiation Vase.
    This is interesting. I have a lot of this mudra sometimes, this is an interesting way to think about what it is.

    Quote Svapna Tara is particularly for this.
    Hence her name?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Cunda also shows up in a rather interesting Sanskrit Catalog from the Beijing Imperial Palace.

    One of the first translations was Matangi.

    They have boatloads of dharanis. Here are a couple of things where we can detect Parasol:
    The imperial collections have boatloads of just about everything. The art collection is split in two, one half still in Beijing, the other in Taipei. There is so much art that the museum there keeps it in a hollowed out mountain, and they have never repeated an exhibit.

    Quote As to their location:


    Melāpaka (मेलापक) is one of the Pīṭhādis (group of districts) present within the Kāyacakra (‘circle of body’) which is associated with the Ḍākinī named Pātālavāsinī (‘a woman living underground’),

    In the Pīṭhādi named Melāpaka:

    Pretādhivāsinī,
    Gṛhadevatā.

    There they are around the root center, or, more accurately, sex organ.

    It does seem like Cunda is going to the base of the spine and in some way is Candi, that is, Wrathjful Green Tara, while still being connected to Lotus Family. Northwest for Mahabala of course is the normal "transition" from Lotus to Karma.

    I would say it has a lot to do with the Four Chakra system in Pranayama governed by Lotus Family, versus, in the higher tantras, the base of the spine appears, in a way that is Extremely Wrathful, Flaming, Urging, and held by the Samadhi Goddess, Candi, after the Sadhana deities or Wrathful Ones have changed luminosity to dark blue, or perhaps made the first Mental Object, associated with the normal five colors, into a re-born one.
    More specifically,

    Pretādhivāsinī -- sex organ
    Gṛhadevatā -- rectum.

    This pairing of Cunda with the base of the spine also seems to fit well with my shaking. I am in the chest area right now, and Ushas is running things. Before that, though, I was in the lower pelvis and surrounds with a lot of muscular training, and it was being run by Cunda.

    When I said she was very closely paired with Prajnaparamita, it was through a mathematical artifice (Dakinis that know all of you also know they can use such vocabulary, I guess), called the 'forgetful functor', which takes something that has additional structure built on something simpler and 'reverts' it to the simpler structure by 'forgetting' structure. The precise relationship is that with me Cunda 'evolved' from Prajnaparamita, and she 'reverts' to Prajnaparamita to teach things for which it is more appropriate that the latter would appear, because, at least for me, Prajnaparamita does not directly appear, only by Cunda.

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