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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    So these are derived from the four qualities of buddha-nature? And from these derive the rest? So one to four to seven to the rest?

    I look at it reversed, in practice terms, that the Jewels = Path which establishes the Qualities of the Dharma Realm.

    In terms of origin, the symbol is usually Three-in-One = Triangle and Four = Square, which put together is Seven.


    Quote But glows as well? Root matter is formless but luminous?

    Theosophy has at least sixteen synonyms for matter.

    Some of them are higher or lower emanations, but, of course, Akasa is included:

    E. āṅ and kāśṛ to shine, ghañ affix; every where shining; Akash is the subtle and æthereal fluid, supposed to fill and pervade the universe, and to be the peculiar vehicle of life and sound.

    Kāś (काश्).—1, 4 Ā. (kāśa-śya-te, kāśita)

    1) To shine, look brilliant or beautiful

    To be visible, [Rāmāyaṇa] 3, 29, 8. 2. To shine Mahābhārata 1, 7008. kāśita, Resplendent, [Rāmāyaṇa] 6, 26, 48.


    which returns Ratnakarasanti's Prakasa:

    With pra pra, 1. To be visible, Mahābhārata 3, 9990. 2. To appear, [Rāmāyaṇa] 6, 20, 10. 3. To shine, Mahābhārata 3, 13750. [Causal.]

    Interestingly about Yogacara, HPB says:

    Alaya (Sk.) The Universal Soul (See Secret Doctrine Vol. I. pp. 47 et seq.). The name belongs to the Tibetan system of the contemplative Mahâyâna School. Identical with Âkâsa in its mystic sense, and with Mulâprâkriti, in its essence, as it is the basis or root of all things.

    also:

    11-Mûlaprakriti (Sk.) The Parabrahmic root, the abstract deific feminine principle—undifferentiated substance. Akâsa. Literally, “the root of Nature” (Prakriti) or Matter.
    12-Pradhâna (Sk.) Undifferentiated substance, called elsewhere and in other schools—Akâsa; and Mulaprakriti or Root of Matter by the Vedantins. In short, Primeval Matter.

    but then she is going to use "ether" for her "plane of Prana" and say it is an offspring or reflection of Akasa:

    3-Akâsa (Sk.) The subtle, supersensuous spiritual essence which pervades all space; the primordial substance erroneously identified with Ether. But it is to Ether what Spirit is to Matter, or Âtmâ to Kâma-rûpa. It is, in fact, the Universal Space in which lies inherent the eternal Ideation of the Universe in its ever-changing aspects on the planes of matter and objectivity, and from which radiates the First Logos, or expressed thought.

    4-Æther (Gr.) With the ancients the divine luminiferous substance which pervades the whole universe, the “garment” of the Supreme Deity, Zeus, or Jupiter. With the moderns, Ether, for the meaning of which in physics and chemistry see Webster’s Dictionary or any other. In esotericism Æther is the third principle of the Kosmic Septenary; the Earth being the lowest, then the Astral light, Ether...[i. e., third plane]


    So, yes, the underlying meaning of akasa is not much different from prakasa, which is not far from prakriti prabhasvara.



    Quote Another early term for "mind-only" was Vijnapti Matra.

    I haven't heard this, but you later say this is "perception only".

    Well, the article writer says so, although what we call Perception is the Activity of Samjna Skandha. I do not think it was the best choice of words, and is not the way it is given in the classics.

    It mainly appears instead of "Cittamatra" in the names of the philosophies:


    VMS Vijñaptimātratāsiddhi by Ratnākaraśānti

    Umino, Takanori
    1968 "The vijñaptimātratā theory of Ratnākaraśānti in the Prajñāpāramitopdeśa:
    On the concept of 'ākāra.'"



    Used in context:

    There is no external object to be grasped by cognition (vijñapti) nor is
    there an inherent nature (svabhāva) grasping cognitions. Both of those
    are the imagined nature of phenomena, because they are imagined
    through mental discursiveness (manojalpa). Where is that nature
    imagined? [It is imagined] in the imagination of the unreal [that] has
    arisen as/with the cognitive image (ākāra) of an [external] object—
    even though an object (artha) does not exist—by force of the [prior]
    impressions and fixations on the imagined nature. And, this
    imagination of the unreal, which is the dependent nature of
    phenomena, is an error, [i.e.] a confusion (viparyāsa) [or] a false
    cognition. That is to say (tathā hi), the cognitive image of the grasped
    and the cognitive image of the grasper in that [imagination of the
    unreal] are nothing but false. The imagination of the unreal is only
    appearing in that manner by force of an error due to a malfunctioning
    (viplava). That is its unreal nature. What is [its] real nature? Sheer
    luminosity.


    In different systems:

    Chinese sources suggest three different
    opinions about the Sākāra/Nirākāravādin of the mundane awareness that is attained after the
    enlightenment. Moriyama has kindly summarized for me the way they are described in Kuiji’s
    commentary on the Viṃśikā, as follows: (1) Sthiramati (Nirākāravijnaptimātravādin) says: The
    buddha’s mundane awareness has no cognitive images of a grasped (grāhya) and grasper (grāhaka).(2)
    Someone else says: The mundane awareness has only a cognitive image of a grasper, by which the
    Buddha can know directly the object. (3) Dharmapāla (Sākāravijnaptimātravādin) says: The mundane
    awareness has both a cognitive image of a grasped and a grasper. Nevertheless, because the Buddha is
    free of any attachments, he perceives the cognitive image of objects as they are.


    Since objects do not exist, representation (vijñapti;
    rnam rig) does not exist.

    4 I have translated vijñapti as “representation” to emphasize the logical connection with the refutation
    of objects. Elsewhere I usually just translate it as cognition.

    elsewhere: mere cognition.

    Mere cognition has been used since Vasubandhu's time to say that when consciousness is aware of an external object, there is only (matra) that consciousness, and not any real object.



    related to Skandhas:

    Consciousness. The fifth and last collection contains the aggregates of consciousness (vijñāna-skandha). In contrast to apperception, consciousness is defined as the impression (vijñapti) of each object or as the bare apprehension of each object. Glossing on this definition, later Abhidharma commentators treat consciousness (vijñāna) as referring to an awareness of the object alone (vastumātra) (see Yaśomitra's Vyākhyā ad AK I, 16). Unlike sensation and apperception, which apprehend the specific characteristics of objects, consciousness acts as an integrating and discerning factor of experience.



    Despite their differences, there are many other similarities between Ratnākaraśānti’s notion of the
    Nirākāravādin position and Kamalaśīla’s. They both refute external objects by proving the
    Vijñaptimātratā and then disprove the cognitive images as conventional, not ultimate. Also, in doing
    so, they both rely on the Nirākāravādin arguments vyāpakaviruddhopalabdhi or vyāpakānupalabdhi in
    contrast to those employed by Sākāravādin-s like Prajñākaragupta.

    Vijnapti Matra is a synonym of Vijnana Vada.

    It is not that hard to refute objects, since any of them change and decay, they are not absolute. Their related cognitive images are the same way.

    Even when an object is not real, different persons may be conscious of the same thing, and perceive it very differently.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The rainbows I see in dew are related to the refraction in a single dewdrop.

    There is not just one rainbow, it is a matter of intensity.

    In other words, a "double rainbow" in the sky is a second one because optically, it is made of light reflecting in the interior of the drop, and some of it escapes, some of it keeps reflecting and escapes to make a second one.

    In laboratory conditions, at least thirteen orders of rainbows have been detected.

    But usually only one is bright enough to see.




    Quote Or a zero that is a fulcrum or balance point, not an absolute zero. Nothing can be very pregnant, if it is the precursor state to some kind of bifurcation or singularity. It isn't a zero energy then, it's some other unstable equilibrium. That's fine, my empty spaces don't need to be empty.

    Very much so. It is a whole lot of "nothing" with respect to the senses and how the mind ordinarily works, or the apparent removal of energy from manifestation. But at worst if we say "zero" it could only be temporarily, as, by law, One must arise again, and so any zero must, at least, be "pregnant".


    Quote Awakening mind is not thought of as having an idea yet. It is a subconscious desire for sound. And so it goes through a subtle awakening before there is a letter (idea), which is a formation in the Akash of the Mental Plane, which establishes the Divine Word and then retreats to its subtle lair.
    This makes more sense, I think.

    It is a way of expressing man's "potential thread" to the Absolute, which would be the highest samadhi.

    Here, I am paraphrasing Koothoomi in the letter where at first he accuses Aristotelians of "inverting the sense" of Avalokiteshvara. After asserting that he does not "look down from on high":

    Avalokitesvara is both the unmanifested Father and the manifested Son, the latter proceeding from, and identical with, the other; -- namely, the Parabrahm and Jivatman, the Universal and the individualized seventh Principle, -- the Passive and the Active, the latter the Word, Logos, the Verb. Call it by whatever name, only let these unfortunate, deluded Christians know that the real Christ of every Christian is the Vach, the "mystical Voice," while the man Jeshu was but a mortal like any of us, an adept more by his inherent purity and ignorance of real Evil, than by what he had learned with his initiated Rabbis and the already (at that period) fast degenerating Egyptian Hierophants and priests.


    Continuing with what he was forced to express in a Buddhist, Hindu, and Greek melange:

    Does your B.T.S. know the meaning of the white and black interlaced triangles, of the Parent Society's seal that it has also adopted? Shall I explain? -- the double triangle viewed by the Jewish Kabalists as Solomon's Seal, is, as many of you doubtless know the Sri-antara of the archaic Aryan Temple, the "mystery of Mysteries," a geometrical synthesis of the whole occult doctrine. The two interlaced triangles are the Buddhangums of Creation. They contain the "squaring of the circle," the "philosophical stone," the great problems of Life and Death, and -- the Mystery of Evil. The chela who can explain this sign from every one of its aspects -- is virtually an adept. How is it then that the only one among you, who has come so near to unravelling the mystery is also the only one who got none of her ideas from books? Unconsciously she gives out -- to him who has the key -- the first syllable of the Ineffable name! Of course you know that the double-triangle -- the Satkiri Chakram of Vishnu -- or the six-pointed star, is the perfect seven. In all the old Sanskrit works -- Vedic and Tantrik -- you find the number 6 mentioned more often than the 7 -- this last figure, the central point being implied, for it is the germ of the six and their matrix. It is then thus . . . [At this point in the original there is a rough drawing of the interlaced triangles inscribed in a circle. -- ED.] -- the central point standing for seventh, and
    the circle, the Mahakâsha -- endless space -- for the seventh Universal Principle. In one sense, both are viewed as Avalokitesvara, for they are respectively the Macrocosm and the microcosm. The interlaced triangles -- the upper pointing one -- is Wisdom concealed, and the downward pointing one -- Wisdom revealed (in the phenomenal world). The circle indicates the bounding, circumscribing quality of the All, the Universal Principle which, from any given point expands so as to embrace all things, while embodying the potentiality of every action in the Cosmos. As the point then is the centre round which the circle is traced -- they are identical and one, and though from the standpoint of Maya and Avidya -- (illusion and ignorance) -- one is separated from the other by the manifested triangle, the 3 sides of which represent the three gunas -- finite attributes. In symbology the central point is Jivatma (the 7th principle), and hence Avalokitesvara, the Kwan-Shai-yin, the manifested "Voice" (or Logos), the germ point of manifested activity; -- hence -- in the phraseology of the Christian Kabalists "the Son of the Father and Mother," and agreeably to ours -- "the Self manifested in Self -- Yih-Sin, the "one form of existence," the child of Dharmakaya (the universally diffused Essence), both male and female. Parabrahm or "Adi-Buddha" while acting through that germ point outwardly as an active force, reacts from the circumference inwardly as the Supreme but latent Potency. The double triangles symbolize the Great Passive and the Great Active; the male and female; Purusha and Prakriti. Each triangle is a Trinity because presenting a triple aspect. The white represents in its straight lines: Gnanam -- (Knowledge); Gnata -- (the Knower); and Gnayam -- (that which is known). The black-form, colour, and substance, also the creative, preservative, and destructive forces and are mutually correlating, etc., etc.

    Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity of that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus shut out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining from behind the dark bills of exoteric religions. How, think you, did the "Writers of the Perfect Way" come to know that Adonai was the Son and not the Father; or that the third Person of the Christian Trinity is -- female? Verily, they lay in that work several times their hands upon the keystone of Occultism. Only does the lady -- who persists using without an explanation the misleading term "God" in her writings -- know how nearly she comes up to our doctrine when saying: -- "Having for Father, Spirit which is Life (the endless Circle or Parabrahm) and for Mother the Great Deep, which is Substance (Prakriti in its undifferentiated condition) -- Adonai possesses the potency of both and wields the dual powers
    of all things." We would say triple, but in the sense as given this will do. Pythagoras had a reason for never using the finite, useless figure -- 2, and for altogether discarding it. The One, can, when manifesting, become only 3. The unmanifested when a simple duality remains passive and concealed. The dual monad (the 7th and 6th principles) has, in order to manifest itself as a Logos, the "Kwan-shai-yin" to first become a triad (7th, 6th and half of the 5th); then, on the bosom of the "Great Deep" attracting within itself the One Circle -- form out of it the perfect Square, thus "squaring the circle" -- the greatest of all the mysteries, friend -- and inscribing within the latter the -- Word(the Ineffable name) -- otherwise the duality could never tarry as such, and would have to be reabsorbed into the One. The "Deep" is Space -- both male and female. "Purush (as Brahma) breathes in the Eternity: when 'he' in-breathes -- Prakriti (as manifested Substance) disappears in his bosom; when 'he' out-breathes she reappears as Maya," says the Sloka. The One reality is Mulaprakriti (undifferentiated Substance) -- the "Rootless root," the. . . But we have to stop, lest there should remain but little to tell for your own intuitions.

    Well may the Geometer of the R.S. not know that the apparent absurdity of attempting to square the circle covers a mystery ineffable. It would hardly be found among the foundation stones of Mr. Roden Noel's speculations upon the "pneumatical body . . . of our Lord," nor among the debris of Mr. Farmer's "A New Basis of Belief in Immortality"; and to many such metaphysical minds it would be worse than useless to divulge the fact, that the Unmanifested Circle -- the Father, or Absolute Life -- is non-existent outside the Triangle and Perfect Square, and -- is only manifested in the Son; and that it is when, reversing the action and returning to its absolute state of Unity, and the square expands once more into the Circle -- that "the Son returns to the bosom of the Father." There it remains until called back by his Mother -- the "Great Deep," to remanifest as a triad -- the Son partaking at once, of the Essence of the Father, and of that of the Mother -- the active Substance, Prakriti in its differentiated condition. "My Mother -- (Sophia -- the manifested Wisdom) took me" -- says Jesus in a Gnostic treatise; and he asks his disciples to tarry till he comes. . . . The true "Word" may only be found by tracing the mystery of the passage inward and outward of the Eternal Life, through the states typified in these three geometric figures.


    So there he has taken something of western mysteries and attached it to how the Hexagram is used in eastern doctrine. This is pretty much what the Theosophical program was about, and he is very close to the right "Anglicization" of it, to the extent that can be done.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    So to summarize, Ratnakarasanti says there are several states, transmundane, pure mundane, and impure mundane. In transmundane, only the luminosity is seen, the images or shapes are not seen. This state is common to Buddhas and to Bodhisattvas, so long as the latter are in meditation. Post meditation, the Buddhas can still see the transmundane, but if they want to, they can also see the pure mundane. Bodhisattvas see the pure mundane for a time after their meditation, but if they don't meditate again to recharge, they will eventually see the impure mundane. The difference between the transmundane and the pure mundane is that the transmundane is the luminosity with no cognitive images. The pure mundane state is one where one sees cognitive images but they appear as illusions of various kinds. The impure mundane is where the illusions feel like reality because one is not free of the grasper and the grasped.

    The way to attain these abilities to see pure mundane and transmundane is through Prajnaparamita.

    Is that pretty much it?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote So, yes, the underlying meaning of akasa is not much different from prakasa, which is not far from prakriti prabhasvara.
    This then doesn't differentiate akasa from nirvakara, does it? Luminous substrate as space.

    Quote There is no external object to be grasped by cognition (vijñapti) nor is
    there an inherent nature (svabhāva) grasping cognitions. Both of those
    are the imagined nature of phenomena, because they are imagined
    through mental discursiveness (manojalpa).
    But it appears that the operative phenomenon making these things not be, is mental discursiveness. And that what is unreal about them is that they are grasped or grasping.

    Quote Since objects do not exist, representation (vijñapti;
    rnam rig) does not exist.

    4 I have translated vijñapti as “representation” to emphasize the logical connection with the refutation
    of objects. Elsewhere I usually just translate it as cognition.

    elsewhere: mere cognition.

    Mere cognition has been used since Vasubandhu's time to say that when consciousness is aware of an external object, there is only (matra) that consciousness, and not any real object.
    It seems like there is one stage more not existing here than the mere cognition in Vasubandhu's time.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The way to attain these abilities to see pure mundane and transmundane is through Prajnaparamita.

    Is that pretty much it?

    Yes!


    Unfortunately, the verse ending "This system is Nirakara" only has the Tibetan original.

    Just to spit in the face of consistency, here are nirvritti and pravrtti just as "stop and go" while we dig through another translation:

    Also, those [buddhas] have the basis that is the path. The
    transformation of that (a) absolutely ceasing in terms of the mundane
    nature [and] (b) absolutely proceeding (pravṛtti) in terms of the
    transmundane [nature].

    so ’pi mārgas teṣām āśrayaḥ. tasya parāvṛttir laukikena rūpeṇātyantikī nivṛttiḥ, lokottareṇa cātyamtikī pravṛttiḥ.

    A buddha is ceasing to be on a path of mundane learning based on
    antidotes to negativity, but is proceeding as a transmundane path of no more learning
    without any antidotes. This transmundane awareness is sheer luminosity.


    Mundane = Laukika

    Transmundane = Lokottara

    Yes, we just said the mind cannot possibly have Pravrrti in Lokottara, but, you can "proceed" with it in your future.



    Ratnākaraśānti also explains these two—i.e. the transmundane and pure mundane
    awarenesses—as the two aspects of Prajñāpāramitā:

    dvividhā Prajñāpāramitā lokottarā śuddhā laukikī ca.

    So it is probably "transmundane" = Lokottara while "transmundane awareness" = jnana.

    Suddha Laukika would specify "pure worldly".


    ...the post-meditative period of each ground is said to contain its own pure mundane
    appearances that mature for a bodhisattva from his seeds, as he gradually transforms
    the three bases through the practice of the various pāramitās.

    As for a buddha, he has both a pure mundane and a transmundane awareness
    simultaneously.


    Some of the schools would say Buddha lacks mundane awareness, others that if he has it, it is perfect. Ratnakarasanti says that it is imperfect.

    Ch. Four unpacks the way that Ratnākaraśānti explains parallel “erroneous” and “unerroneous” causal systems and their lack of mutual exclusivity. It also demonstrates the role that Prajñāpāramitā plays in connecting “erroneous” and “unerroneous” worlds of causality through his unusual explanation of the three bodies (kāya) of a buddha. It also highlights the particular way that Ratnākaraśānti refutes the reality of cognitive images (ākāra) at the ultimate level, but explains their availability to buddhas, insofar as they retain a small amount of error after their awakening.

    To some of the schools, it is a subtle refinement, and to others such as Chandrakirti, a strong contradiction.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    akasa is not much different from prakasa, which is not far from prakriti prabhasvara.

    This then doesn't differentiate akasa from nirvakara, does it? Luminous substrate as space.

    Nirakara is rather the system or that style of meditation which removes cognition in order to see pure light.

    In my experience there are various kinds of light associated with form.


    But when it comes to the Three Natures and the Three Voids, it is this which I believe is called the Akashic or Mental plane. In the letter, Koothoomi says the Divine writes in the top half of this; correspondingly, HPB says its only choice is to look either down, through Kama Loka and become Kama Manas, or to look up to Buddhi, which, I think, is what we are trying to do in the tantras.

    It doesn't say you can go anywhere. It says you can penetrate the veils to something that is passive.

    Well, first, you have to use something Active, Karuna or Upaya to do it. From Yoga Nidra, this classical template is what you can do on "the mental plane" since you no longer have a body, i. e., any projectable "body of light" is at rest or just dissipated.



    What is that 'Means’ when Father Tantra and upaya-tantra are
    identical ? It is taught by the Dakarnava (Toh. 372) in these words.

    In the king of Tantras among the ‘yogas' —

    Knowing them and the varieties of their rites,

    I have explained the Illusion of the Clear Light
    To the illusory world.

    How is that passage explained ? The explanation is sugges¬
    tive (neya). By whom [is it explained] ? By Vajradhara himself.
    What [does he explain] ? The ‘Means’ of producing the Illusory
    Body. To whom [does he explain] ? To the world of candidates
    (vineya). Where ? Dividing the Anuttra Tantra into [maha] yoga-
    tantra and yogini-tantra — in the ‘kings’ of the [maha] yoga-tantras
    taken by themselves. By what method is it done ? One generates
    in the forward direction the three [called] Light (aloka), spread-of-
    Liyht (alokabhasa), and Culmination-of-Light (alokopalabdhi), to¬
    gether with the Clear Light (prabhasvara)\ and at the time of emerging
    from the latter, in the reverse direction one accomplishes the
    Illusory Body from the five rays of wind (vayu) riding on the four
    Voids. The method consists in emerging in the Illusory Body from
    the Clear Light by way of knowing in exactitude such things as
    the coming forth with skill and the varieties of their rites.


    I found a battered header that explains what DSBC has for Dakarnava is really just its Apabrahmsa verses. They were taken from the full thing which was published a long time ago in a set of volumes of all kinds of things:

    But the most important discovery of Haraprasada was the mistic songs of the saint poets of the Vajrayana sect. The four collections of such songs he discovered were the Caryacaryaviniscaya of Luipada, the Dohakosa of Sarohavajra the Dohakosa and the Dakarnava of Kanhapada. He discovered all these four collections in 1907 in Nepal and then edited and published them, in 1916, under the title Hajara bacharera purana Bangala nhasaya Bauddhagana o Doha. This publication started a new era in the linguistic research in Bengali, Maithili, Asamiya and Oriya, since the language of these songs marks the beginning of all these eastern languages.


    So the Dakarnava is really a Sangiti.

    It is most heavily related to Eastern Bengali, written in Newari script.

    The original Apabrahmsa study has a ton of translations for Bengali, but, the scan is so poor, it is not much of a good read and probably not that helpful.

    However, "Chakrasamvara" is actually:

    Śrīherukābhidhānaṃ Cakrasaṃvaratantram with the Vivṛti Commentary of Bhavabhaṭṭa


    Root Chakrasamvara.

    It is large, but, are other things, such as Vajradaka and Cinnamasta "explanatory" to it? Yes.

    It does show us a few things. For one thing, Seven Syllable Deity and the Six Yoginis are conjoined.

    I was looking since someone said Vajrayogini is in such-and-such a place, but this is not true, it is Vajravarahi, and it gives something interesting on her:

    cumbikā śūnye tu [evaṃ] pāramitāstathā |
    madhye tu savavīrālayaṃ pṛṣṭhe tu visarjayed budhaḥ || 13 ||
    cumbiketi vajravārāhyā aparaṃ nāma | saiva śūnye śūnyatāyām | śūnyatāviśuddhye-
    tyarthaḥ | ataḥ pāramitā iti |

    Cumbikā (चुम्बिका) refers to one of two types of Lāmās: female Tantrik adepts, according to the 8th-centry Jayadratha-yāmala.—Lāmā is not the commonly known Tibetan word “bla-ma” meaning “scholar”, but something different. The Lāmās otherwise called Rūpikā and Cumbikā flourish among the rare group of the Kāśyapīs. Association with them is conducive to spiritual success. They are called Rūpikā because they assume different shapes during their intercourse with others. They are called Cumbikā because they kiss at the very first introduction.

    and she also gets the odd description which may mean she is in Binducakra, which can't be figured out, since we cannot look this up:

    Cumbikā (चुम्बिका) refers to one of the twenty-four Ḍākinīs positioned at the padma (lotus) in the middle of the Herukamaṇḍala, according to the 10th century Ḍākārṇava chapter 15. Accordingly, between the east and north (of the heruka-maṇḍala) are six Ḍākinīs who are half black and half dark-blue in color. They [viz., Cumbikā] are headed by the major four Ḍākinīs of the Cakrasaṃvara tradition.

    In the next phrase, she appears to stand in for Prajnaparamita:


    yā dānaśīlakṣāntivīryadhyānapāramitāḍākinyādayo vajra-
    vārāhyantāḥ krameṇa jñeyāḥ | tathāśabdaḥ prajñāpāramitā pañcabhiḥ pāramitābhiḥ saṅgacchata
    iti sūtra(ca)yati |

    This description is after an unusual thing--she has *some* of the Six Yoginis or Armor Deities, but, only four of them in a way that "implies" a fifth central one:

    pūrvadale ḍākinī | uttare lāmā |
    paścime khaṇḍarohā | dakṣiṇe rupiṇī | aiśāne yāminī | āgneye mohanī | nairṛte
    sañcāla(ri)ṇī | vāyavye trāsanīti vibhāvyam |

    It is not telling you much about Six Yoginis, there is no Candi on the page.

    It gives Vairocani and Varnani mantras, one time apiece, and so yes it makes sense there are stand-alone sadhanas for these.


    When the Six Yoginis come up in Chapter Forty-one, something happens to them pertaining to Mothers:

    ṣaḍyoginyaḥ kulatāyāṃ marudeśe ṣaḍmātarāḥ |
    sindhudeśe lāmā ca nagare kulanāyikāḥ || 10 ||
    lampā[ kā ]yāṃ saurāṣṭre ca kuladevatā sthitāḥ |
    pretapuryāṃ mahākanyā ḍākinī saharupiṇī || 11 ||
    himādrau caiva kāñcyāṃ ca kathiatā sabālikā iti |
    pañcālaviṣaye gṛhadevatā kaliṅge ca vratadhāriṇyaḥ || 12 ||
    piśitāśanā kośale tu pretapuryāṃ vajraḍākinyaḥ |
    sthūleśvare triśakunau khaṇḍarohākulodbhavāḥ || 13 ||
    pullīramalaye kanakādrau ca caṇḍālakulajāḥ striyaḥ |
    sahastrāṇyekaviṃśatiḥ || 14 ||

    This is repeated with more detail, but I guess what they don't make explicit here is that it is a Cinnamasta Krama. And so what is weird, before the other Pithas come, Vajravarahi and Yamini look like the source for the Six Mothers, then there are Seven Mothers in a certain place, followed by Lama and Heruka:

    śarīrastheṣu maṇḍalastheṣu vā pullīramalayādiṣu pracaṇḍādayaḥ krameṇa jñeyāḥ |
    bahirdeśeṣu tu tajjātīyā yathā tathā vā | vajravārāhī yāminyādayaḥ ṣaḍmātarā iti |
    saptamātṛrupāḥ marudeśe | lāmājātīyāḥ kulanāyikā ti | śrīherukakulodbhūtāḥ |


    Maru "sands, desert".

    It has tantric meanings, one curiously also being a Krama:

    Marudeśa (मरुदेश):—Sanskrit name for one of the twenty-four sacred sites of the Sūryamaṇḍala, the first maṇḍala of the Khecarīcakra, according to the kubjikāmata-tantra. The Khecarīcakra is the fifth and final cakra located just above the head. Each one of these holy sites (pītha) is presided over by a particular Khecarī (‘sky-goddess’). This Marudeśa-pītha is connected with the goddess Kramaṇī.


    or in the Puranas, it was a site of the Best Mare:

    Marudeśa (मरुदेश).—Also Marudhanva; arid tract where saṃjñā roamed in the guise of a mare;2

    2) Bhāgavata-purāṇa I. 10. 35. Matsya-purāṇa 11. 26. Vāyu-purāṇa 8. 97; 88. 35.


    Usually, Varahi is counted in the Six, so I am not sure what is getting added there.




    Chapter Forty-three involves an Avalokana Nagna Puja:

    yoginyavalokananagnapūjāḥ | saptākṣarakarmavidhipaṭalamāha - athetyādi |



    There is Brihaspati--Jupiter and perhaps seven underworlds in the way of divine light:

    vāgīśaṃ bṛhaspatiṃ tasya mātaraṃ vāṇīṃ divyaṃ divibhavaṃ vṛttāntaṃ jānāti | divyānāṃ
    yoginīnāṃ kathā divyakathā | jyotiṣāṃ grahāṇāṃ sañcāraṃ jānāti | pātāla iti |
    saptasu pātāleṣu yad vṛttaṃ tajjānāti | grāma ityādi | nandigrāmādau | araṇye mahāraṇye |
    nagareṣu varddhamānādiṣu | vīragṛhe kṣetrapālādyadhiṣṭhāne | vyomnyākāśe | śikhare parvata-
    śikhare || 7-8 ||
    smaranti hṛdayopahṛdayaṃ na dṛśyante devamānuṣaiḥ |
    tasmādeṣu pradeśeṣu nityaṃ tiṣṭhanti sādhakāḥ || 9 ||



    The mantra seems to involve itself with an epithet of Brahman:

    Saptātman (सप्तात्मन्):—[from sapta > saptan] mfn. having 7 essences, [Nṛsiṃha-tāpanīya-upaniṣad]

    ātmakāye tu vinyasya bhūmau darbhāsane śayet |
    saptātmakākṣaraṃ mantraṃ japedaṣṭottaraṃ śatam


    That says to me that the syllables are aspects of Atman--Brahman, and so if in the perhaps more explanatory Vajradaka, they become the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, that is what makes a Buddha.


    You attract girls seven times:

    saptasaṃkhyātmakānyakṣarāṇi

    The end of the book looks to be about seven more rebirths.



    Chapter Forty-four:

    śrīherukābhidhāne ṣaḍyoginīnāṃ saptākṣarakarmavidhi-paṭalaḥ

    Has for its whole contents the affixing of Six to Seven.


    Chapter Forty-five is Karma Vak Siddhi, which is unknown compared to Vak Siddhi:

    śrīherukābhidhāne ṣaḍyoginīnāṃ karmavāksiddhyākarṣaṇa-vidhipaṭalaḥ pañcacālīśatimaḥ

    starts with fierce red nerves:

    raktacandanādi yoginā

    Six Yognis' Kavaca (Armor) is Matra (only) Aksara (syllables) Saptaka Atmaka mantra of such-and-such a kind, appears to bond with basic Six syllable mantra:

    ṣaḍyoginīkavacamatrākṣarasaptakātmakamantrakarmaprasarakathanānantaram ,
    karmavaraṃ ṣaḍakṣaramantrasambandhi

    Except it is not Avalokiteshvara's mantra, it is one "Hum" removed from Seven Syllable mantra, which makes this one, Six Yoginis and six senses. It looks like Chapter Forty-four interfaces the six and seven and spits out the usual Armor mantra.


    The whole thing also uses Dakinijala Samvara.

    It seems to be building up to Sarva Buddha Dakini (Varnani) which becomes deployed as the entire field of Pithas with Viras and Yoginis.

    If it does not mention Candi, it is so into Pracanda that it never says her name plainly, it is Pracandadaya, source of twenty-four yoginis. Only one time, after the longest word in the world, it is Khandakapaladaya Pracandayukta.


    The next-to-last Chapter Fifty appears to cultivate a Pindartha of the underworld:

    bhāvanāpīṇḍārthādipaṭalamāha

    and has managed to compose a Heruka of fourteen tattvas.

    ādisiddhā prakṛtisiddhā mahāmudrā devatā |

    and end:

    saptajanmanaḥ siddhaṃ prakṛtisiddhaṃ sāmarthyam

    acintyānāṃ dharmāṇāṃ bhāvanānāṃ prakṛtiḥ smartavyā deśitavyā |

    Acintya (अचिन्त्य) refers to five “incomprehensible” things, according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra chapter XLVII.—Accordingly, “there are five incomprehensible (acintya) things, namely: i) the number of beings; ii) the retribution of action (karmavipāka); iii) the power of a person in meditation (dhyāyabala); iv) the power of the Nāgas; v) the power of the Buddha. Of these five incomprehensible things, the power of the Buddha is the most incomprehensible. The Bodhisattva in profound concentrations (gambhīra-samādhi) produces incomprehensible superknowledges (acintya-abhijñā) and by means of them, in a single moment, goes everywhere in the Buddha universes of the ten directions”.


    Granted, I have not looked in the first volume for anything.


    Quote But it appears that the operative phenomenon making these things not be, is mental discursiveness. And that what is unreal about them is that they are grasped or grasping.
    Yes.


    A slightly larger but perhaps more accurate phrase is Grasping for Truly-Established Existence.

    From the Berzhin Archives:

    (1) Both to cognize (literally, take as a cognitive object) the appearance of the world as having truly established existence, which the habits of this grasping cause the mind to fabricate and project, as well as believing this deceptive appearance to correspond to how things actually exist, (2) simply cognizing the appearance of the world as having truly established existence, without actually believing this deceptive appearance to correspond to how things actually exist. Gelug asserts both definitions, while non-Gelug asserts only the first.

    Tibetan: བདེན་འཛིན། bden-'dzin

    Sanskrit: satyagrāha

    Imputing Satya onto anything other than Sat is a gross error, Parikalpita.


    In the context of what looks like Yamantaka about to smash it:

    Because of our ingrained habits of grasping for truly established existence, our minds produce an appearance resembling self-established existence. With unawareness, we don’t know and don’t understand that this appearance does not correspond to reality. Therefore, we grasp at it to actually correspond to reality. Believing like that causes our disturbing emotions to arise, which brings us to act destructively, and as a result, our actions build up karmic aftermath. That karmic aftermath gets activated with more disturbing emotions and, when it ripens, it produces, among many other things, our five aggregates – our body and mind – and what we experience.

    We experience having a limited body and a limited mind. We continue to have the various tendencies, not only for compulsive karmic behavior, but also for the disturbing emotions, including the three poisons, and we continue to have, as well, the habit of grasping for truly established existence. We then compulsively repeat actions that are similar to what we have done in the past. First, we feel like doing them and that leads to more compulsive behavior and compulsively entering into situations where things similar to what we have done to others happen back to us, and we continue to have the five aggregates. This is samsara, uncontrollably recurring existence.



    And so if you don't rebuke the samsara, you will be grasping for truly established existence in the Bardo, which is way worse, and you will transmigrate into realms of suffering.

    Grasping is an error on behalf of the male aspect, while the grasped is impermanent.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote There is not just one rainbow, it is a matter of intensity.

    In other words, a "double rainbow" in the sky is a second one because optically, it is made of light reflecting in the interior of the drop, and some of it escapes, some of it keeps reflecting and escapes to make a second one.
    I've seen the second one, fairly often in some places (Arizona after thundershowers).

    In my rainbow, it is from spray from a waterfall, I can see the whole rainbow there, but what always happens is that one drop will loom up in front of me and I see the whole refraction process and the brilliant colors as if all of the sunlight is going through that one drop.

    It always has a really specific meaning, that it can paint anything at all of any color at all but that the rainbow itself is nothing but mist. It collapses all images to nothingness, and reemerges as the light before the images occur. I'm not saying it right. The rainbow paints all of everything from its colors and yet almost doesn't exist.


    Quote In symbology the central point is Jivatma (the 7th principle), and hence Avalokitesvara, the Kwan-Shai-yin, the manifested "Voice" (or Logos), the germ point of manifested activity; -- hence -- in the phraseology of the Christian Kabalists "the Son of the Father and Mother," and agreeably to ours -- "the Self manifested in Self -- Yih-Sin, the "one form of existence," the child of Dharmakaya (the universally diffused Essence), both male and female.
    Avalokitashvara = Guanshiyin (here Kwan-Shai-Yin in lord knows what transliteration)
    觀世音 literally, "attends(listens)to the world's sounds".
    Yixin (here Yih-Sin) 一心 literally one heart -- here meaning one mind.
    I think the equivalent, if there is to be an equivalent, symbol in China is the Taiji, which is symbolically the two trigrams kan and li water and fire.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Mundane = Laukika

    Transmundane = Lokottara
    This is good to have, I was wondering what these words were.

    Quote the transmundane and pure mundane
    awarenesses—as the two aspects of Prajñāpāramitā:

    dvividhā Prajñāpāramitā lokottarā śuddhā laukikī ca.
    two vidhA Prajnaparamita transmundane pure mundane and.
    two aspects (of) Prajnaparamita transmundane and pure mundane.

    suddha laukika is what he is translating as "pure mundane".

    Quote It also highlights the particular way that Ratnākaraśānti refutes the reality of cognitive images (ākāra) at the ultimate level, but explains their availability to buddhas, insofar as they retain a small amount of error after their awakening.
    This part I don't follow, why in order to perceive akara buddhas need to retain error.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The Lāmās otherwise called Rūpikā and Cumbikā
    literally shapers and kissers.
    Quote dānaśīlakṣāntivīryadhyānapāramitāḍākinyādayo
    These are the other 5 paramitas (dana sila ksanti virya dhyana), I assume Dakinyadayo is the Dakini version of Dharmadayo?

    Quote ṣaḍyoginīkavacamatrākṣarasaptakātmakamantrakarmaprasarakathanānantaram, karmavaraṃ ṣaḍakṣaramantrasambandhi
    In this and the other quotes, does ksara mean essence or fluid?

    Quote Sanskrit: satyagrāha
    You mean like the movement?

    Quote Because of our ingrained habits of grasping for truly established existence, our minds produce an appearance resembling self-established existence. With unawareness, we don’t know and don’t understand that this appearance does not correspond to reality. Therefore, we grasp at it to actually correspond to reality. Believing like that causes our disturbing emotions to arise, which brings us to act destructively, and as a result, our actions build up karmic aftermath. That karmic aftermath gets activated with more disturbing emotions and, when it ripens, it produces, among many other things, our five aggregates – our body and mind – and what we experience.
    This is the same sequence as in Tenzin Wangyal's book and similar to one in the Avatamsaka Sutra.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    as if all of the sunlight is going through that one drop. It always has a really specific meaning, that it can paint anything at all of any color at all but that the rainbow itself is nothing but mist. It collapses all images to nothingness, and reemerges as the light before the images occur.

    Well, this is pretty close to what we mean by Purity and Emptiness mantras.

    The point at which I personally use the first process is to dissolve Vajrasattva throughout the body, etc., and this is Purity.

    You do Emptiness with some sensation of Brahma Vihara, and then the image is intended to be the syllable, lotus, disks, etc., in a deity's spawn sequence. Because of the way I do Guru Yoga, it would mean Vajradhara and then he could get suspended and then use a syllable for Tara.

    That one drop is therefor highly akin to a type of siddhi sought for Sadhana and Samadhi.

    If one might suppose that Citra could simultaneously be Bright and Variegated, then, perhaps, that kind of Citrasena might make sense. There is a vaguely synonymous

    Citradevī (चित्रदेवी):—[=citra-devī] [from citra-deva > citra > cit] f. Mahendra-vāruṇī

    It is at least its own Quintessence.

    Corresponding to approximately half of what is considered one's system, the companion of Vajravairocani is Pranava Vajradakini, i. e. Primordial Om, and simultaneously "she who colors":

    Varṇanīya (वर्णनीय).—a.

    1) To be painted or coloured.


    Perhaps it is like one of these, or similar others.

    Granted that I certainly do not have anything that powerful and clear, but, yes, that sounds like a sought-for potency in order to accomplish practices.


    Quote Avalokitashvara = Guanshiyin (here Kwan-Shai-Yin in lord knows what transliteration)

    That is how it was in the era. Most of the Tibetan is only approximately "correct".

    Although there was only limited knowledge of Sanskrit, Brian Hodgson was the only source of Nepalese Sanskrit for a hundred years or more.

    His description of the "four schools", Svabhavika, etc., was heavily relied upon if not simply quoted in its entirety by Alex Wayman in his treatment of the same.

    However if anyone would have caught on to the basic information he has there, it is an excellent stamp for eastern metaphysics.


    Quote literally, "attends(listens)to the world's sounds".

    Then it seems they have gone with "Svara" as the ending.

    If that is done, I am not sure why you might not also go with Sees the Sounds similar to the above as well as what is supposed to happen when Avalokiteshvara does samadhi on the Sound.


    Quote Yixin (here Yih-Sin) 一心 literally one heart -- here meaning one mind.

    If most of the linguistics are a butcher job, I am glad there is this.


    Quote I think the equivalent, if there is to be an equivalent, symbol in China is the Taiji, which is symbolically the two trigrams kan and li water and fire.
    "both male and female"

    Androgyne

    To me, that is how Vajrasattva or Sunyata Jnana works, and the Guru and the various deities are elaborating some aspect of the halves.

    Yes we see Watery Fire in Buddhism and Alchemy used about the same way.

    Varuna and Agni esoterically.

    By now it should be much more obvious that of one is a major Homa practice arguably brought from outside the Indian subcontinent, and, for the other, we only show a Makara Rider here and there.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Mundane = Laukika

    Transmundane = Lokottara

    This is good to have, I was wondering what these words were.

    The reason this is not a religion, but a school of clairvoyance.

    Laukika (लौकिक).—adj. (Sanskrit id.; [Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit] also like Pali, lokika), with citta, (thought) about the world; said of the Buddha when he concerns himself with the welfare of some person or persons: °kam (137.16 °ka-) cittam utpāditam, or utpā- [Page466-b+ 9] daya(n)ti (subject, a Buddha or Buddhas) Divyāvadāna 63.11 ff.; 77.14 ff.; 137.16; 161.23 f.; in the last contrasted with a Buddha's lokottara (q.v.) citta; Mūla-Sarvāstivāda-Vinaya i.255.19.

    The second term, Lokottara, may not be the linguistic property of Buddhism, but, is, I think, its subject, which here at ca. year 1,000, has had a very intricate explanation penned by Ratnakarasanti, for almost the exact same thing since the Mahasamghika:

    Lokottara-vāda (Sanskrit). ‘The Supermundane School’, also known as ‘The One-utterance School’ (Ekavyavahāra), being a subdivision of the Mahāsaṃghika which taught that a Buddha in reality is endowed with a supermundane (lokottara) nature, omniscience, limitless power, and eternal life.

    It also taught the docetic doctrine that any physical manifestations or actions on earth undertaken by a Buddha are merely appearances or illusory projections performed to save beings.

    According to Paramartha, it must have been very old since it moved north two hundred years after Buddha.


    Over the centuries, that name as a title faded into Vijnana Vada and similar terms which slipped under Madhyamika which is more like Sunyata Vada, and by this point there is sort of like a Renaissance where you can almost make a grid of three kinds of Vijnana philosophies crossing with, so to speak, Madhyamika hybrids, and so the elegance of Ratnakarasanti is, I think, tracing out the weird agreements as well as actual errors in each, which works almost exactly like a funnel into what he is promoting.

    I tend to think the power of the Buddha is that of the Bodhisattvas but at an infinite or inscrutable level and hence Acintya.

    In the tantras, the Laukika siddhis are largely the same as in Hinduism, whereas the Lokottara siddhis are unique to Buddhism, Utpatti and Nispanna or Generation and Completion Stages, which are like Krama or Methods to engage transcendent or Lokottara awareness, or, Jnana in the Buddhist meaning.



    Quote suddha laukika is what he is translating as "pure mundane".

    Yes and so a more technical description is Suvishuddha Dharmadhatu which can then be found as tantricly identical to Locana.

    On a Sutra basis it is Prajnaparamita, which does not mean she does not proceed on a tantric basis with Locana emanated along with her in VAT.

    The Mundane aspect would involve an Object which is why many of the sadhanas involve Dharmadhatu Vajra and Offering Goddesses for Purification.


    Quote This part I don't follow, why in order to perceive akara buddhas need to retain error.


    From what I gather, it is not anything different about a Buddha, it is the nature of Pure Mundane Awareness:

    In this [passage], [the term] pure mundane awareness [refers to] the
    awareness that is pure, due to delimiting suchness, and that is
    mundane, insofar as [it is] an error (’khrul ba nyid kyis; bhrāntatvena).


    "Delimiting" is a tricky word unless maybe thought of as "making finite units", which are seen as Suchness by Buddha always, and by Bodhisattvas to some degree or other.

    Interestingly, in the seven rays, Bhranta is that Visnu who enters the lowest and most divided space and goes under error and Maya.


    In the same way [as the bodhisattvas on those grounds], [for someone]
    on the ground of a buddha, it is by force of [his] aspirations (dgongs
    pa’i dbang gis; abhiprāyavaṣena) that complete awakening [also
    involves] a slight error, insofar as it [too] consists in [something] pure
    and mundane.

    In Ratnākaraśānti’s Nirākāravādin system, a buddha does not just attain the state of
    transmundane awareness. He intentionally maintains a pure form of mundane
    awareness that involves a slight bit of error in order to benefit beings.
    Ratnākaraśānti’s explanation of a buddha—as participating in a small amount of error
    due to his prior aspiration to awaken for the benefit of sentient beings—is a notion of
    a buddha markedly different from that of other Mahāyāna systems. However, for
    Ratnākaraśānti, this is just part of the threefold hermeneutic model from the
    perspective of unerroneous causality that explains how a bodhisattva’s aspirations on
    the path produce a buddha who is both a transcendent and immanent being. By
    emphasizing the aspiration as the cause, Ratnākaraśānti is clarifying that a buddha’s
    error derives from no fault of his own, but from his compassionate aspiration to help
    beings. Thus, Ratnākaraśānti’s system attempts to bridge the gap between the false
    and true worlds by suggesting that a buddha’s compassionate aspiration takes the
    form of his participation in ordinary beings’ error on the conventional level through
    pure mundane awareness, which he further explains as follows:

    The awareness (shes pa; jñāna) on [all these] grounds are both
    transformations of the basis (gnas gyur pa; āśrayaparāvṛtti) and
    different ripenings [of the fruits of previous actions] (mi ’dra bar smin
    pa; vipāka<visadṛśaḥ pāka). Thus, there are two awarenesses, [i.e.] the
    mundane awareness and the transmundane awareness. Under the
    [rubric of] mundane awareness, there is the impure mundane awareness and the pure mundane awareness. This system is Nirākāra.

    Ratnākaraśānti explains that in his system, a buddha’s pure mundane awareness has
    false cognitive images. According to Ratnākaraśānti, when a buddha’s three bases
    are transformed, the cognitive images, i.e. signs of proliferation, completely dissolve
    into the transmundane awareness. After that dissolution, that awareness arises as a
    buddha with both a transmundane and a pure mundane awareness simultaneously.

    Nothing is changed or new on that aspect because:

    a bodhisattva has the same pure mundane
    awareness as a buddha


    The difference of Buddha is by Fully Expanding his Transmundane Awareness, so that it is permanent and simultaneous even if he is also perceiving Mundane conditions.

    Bodhisattvas can experience exactly what Buddha does, just weaker and temporarily.


    I found the author also makes a specific point distinguishing Shentong:

    Ratnākaraśānti presents the classic Nirākāravādin interpretation of the three natures, in which the paratantra’s emptiness of the parikalpita is the pariniṣpanna. But the Tibetan gZhan-stong proponents take the same passage to imply something
    different, i.e. that the pariniṣpanna is empty of the parikalpita and of the paratantra.


    Here it seems to me the Shentong point is true, during meditation, or during pralaya of a world system or universe, and then the Indian point is true, that any mundane experience can, so to speak, be Purified and then infused with Suchness, and yet it will still be a minor error and the Paratantra does respond to it. A Buddha's Parinispanna would remain undisturbed, i. e., it still has no natures other than its own.

    This is a small nuance, but we can get to whatever the Tibetans may have said differently.

    These differing views are from the following passage from Maitreya's Madhyāntavibhāga (MAVi), along with finding

    vikalpa, a synonym of paratantra.



    In Ratnākaraśānti’s Nirākāravādin system, the established nature is
    defined as the emptiness or absence of the false cognitive images in the nature that
    is dependent upon causes and conditions. That is to say, cognitive images may
    appear in consciousness, but these are false. The consciousness is ultimately free of
    these. Ratnākaraśānti elaborates on the three natures as follows:
    Likewise, in relation to [the above three natures], they are also taught
    to be the imagined form (rūpa), the conceptual form (vikalpita), and the form that
    is the true reality (dharmatā).

    Here, Rupa means Rupa Skandha and all the rest which have each of the three natures, so for instance Rupa Samjna, Vikalpita Samjna, and Dharmata Samjna.

    It is the skandha itself which becomes a Dhyani Buddha, and so if Samjna is Lotus Family, then a family does have an imprint which is part of the Dharma Realm or Parinispanna. So the explanation he is using still sounds consistent with the tantras.



    [These three natures are], respectively
    (yang), existent in terms of designation, existent in terms of substance,
    and ultimately existent. Hence, the middle way is taught to be
    endowed with these three natures (rang bzhin; svabhāva): it is not
    existent in terms of [its] imagined nature, but is not nonexistent in
    terms of [its] dependent and established natures. Therefore, [this is the
    middle way] free from the two extremes as [said]—

    The imagination of the unreal exists.
    The two [i.e. grasper and grasped] are not found in that
    [imagination of the unreal].
    But emptiness is found in relation to it.
    It too is found in [emptiness]. || MAVi 1.1|

    Hence, on account of being existent, of being nonexistent, and of being existent,
    Everything is explained as not empty, but also as not
    non-empty. That is the middle way. ||MAVi 1.2||

    The nature (lus; śarīra) of the conceptualization of blue patches and so
    on is existent. The [particular] characteristic of [the cognitive images
    of] blue patches and so on is nonexistent, due to being disproved—as
    will be explained. Therefore, [there is] an error due to malfunctioning
    (bslad pa; viplava) from [former] impressions (vāsanā) of blue
    patches and so on.

    Because of arising that way (de ltar gyur pas;
    tathābhūta), although one experiences these [cognitive images], there
    is an error and an experience as though [one] is experiencing [something] else (gzhan).

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The Lāmās otherwise called Rūpikā and Cumbikā
    literally shapers and kissers.

    Yes they say she shape-shifts.

    Apparently this is rather close to placing Buddhist "Rupini" in a corresponding role.

    Varahi kisses you if she likes you, which is not far from her act as Vajravilasini.



    Quote These are the other 5 paramitas (dana sila ksanti virya dhyana), I assume Dakinyadayo is the Dakini version of Dharmadayo?

    Yes, however it may be meaning the dakini named Dakini is the source of these.

    Chapter Forty-eight appears to have Dakini release twelve entities along with the Twenty-four Pithas from Pracanda:

    tā ḍākinyādayo dvādaśa pracaṇḍādayaścaturviṃśati vajravārāhī ca |

    leading to Thirty-six:

    vārāhyā saha śrīherukaḥ mahatīti mahāyoginyo
    ḍākinyādayaḥ ṣaṭtriṃśad |





    Quote ṣaḍyoginīkavacamatrākṣarasaptakātmakamantrakarmaprasarakathanānantaram, karmavaraṃ ṣaḍakṣaramantrasambandhi
    In this and the other quotes, does ksara mean essence or fluid?

    No, it is the combined form of Aksara or syllable. Kavaca--Armor Matra--is only Aksara--syllable(s) Saptatmaka--seven essence mantra:


    kavacamatrākṣarasaptakātmakamantra

    more evidently by breaking the next line:

    ṣaḍ akṣara mantra


    It may have been saying their mantras are the same minus one "Hum".

    It is something like these are distributed in the body, but they become equivalent to the Wrathful Prajnas which are just brain activity, and this has to be to a certain extent successful before the stuff they are protecting such as the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment and the Peaceful Deities of the Heart open.


    Quote You mean like the movement?
    This?

    Satyāgraha (सत्याग्रह) [Also spelled satyagrah]:—(nm) insistence on truth—passive resistance offered to uphold truth (a weapon made popular by Gandhiji during the Indian freedom movement)


    Kind of, except insisting truth onto something that is false.

    Sat is the term for Reality, Parabrahm, etc., amongst Hindus and Jains, "true existence" or Yixin, which cannot be a subject or object of Graha, so, if that is happening, you by definition are not experiencing it.

    It also means Six, so, the etymology of Sadguna Brahman is somewhat inherent.


    Quote This is the same sequence as in Tenzin Wangyal's book and similar to one in the Avatamsaka Sutra.
    Yes, it is the "usual buildup" of discursion and cognitive images and so forth.

    We can, without too much trouble, cast away that pattern, but then the same terms and definitions remain in a more subtle way interfering with Sambhogakaya and so forth.

    Stopping the active verb of grasping is a big help to, but not the final removal of grasper and grasped as unreal.

    The harder the grasp, the worse the samsara, notice "tight fisted" as the failure of the first Paramita.


    The basic flaw without subsequent developments is to:

    take as a cognitive object the appearance of the world as having truly established existence


    "World" may or may not be the physical plane and so on. And so it would be in any way to take Appearance as a Cognitive Object as existing.

    The Nirakara system deletes the appearance or phenomena in order to prove this.

    Without dealing with other skandhas then I think we are left with something described as a seventh skandha. Just a fleeting chance to repudiate any phenomena with Suchness or else all those other things stir up.

    Objects are impermanent, whereas matter is not, which is why removing the Object reverts it to an Element, knowledge of the Emptiness of which is Prajna, of which, there are mainly seven kinds for us to deal with.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote That one drop is therefor highly akin to a type of siddhi sought for Sadhana and Samadhi.
    Does that mean it is an ability to do samadhi? It is, I guess, physically near the crown of my head.

    Quote If that is done, I am not sure why you might not also go with Sees the Sounds similar to the above as well as what is supposed to happen when Avalokiteshvara does samadhi on the Sound.
    Probably so. I can't remember the name of the person who hypothesized that it might actually be Avalokitashvara so that it had the meaning about sounds, but the Chinese translation (which later became the Japanese Kanzeon or Kannon for short, same characters), was one of the reasons. More recently, there was an archaeological find that pretty much proved him right.

    Quote "both male and female"

    Androgyne
    Fire ☲, and Water ☵ . There is a version of the Taiji that bends each of those into a semicircle and creates a striped circle with opposite stripes on either side. From there, you sort of two dimensionalize so that the white is on the inside on one and outside on the other and that makes up the usual Taiji ("yin-yang symbol") which is considered the simplified version. The alchemy is to bring water over fire to create power to create the microcosmic orbit inside, the untrained body has fire over water which leads to dissipation.
    Quote Varuna and Agni esoterically.
    Okay.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Lokottara-vāda (Sanskrit). ‘The Supermundane School’, also known as ‘The One-utterance School’ (Ekavyavahāra), being a subdivision of the Mahāsaṃghika which taught that a Buddha in reality is endowed with a supermundane (lokottara) nature, omniscience, limitless power, and eternal life.

    It also taught the docetic doctrine that any physical manifestations or actions on earth undertaken by a Buddha are merely appearances or illusory projections performed to save beings.
    The version in the Avatamsaka is this manifestation thing, the difference with bodhisattvas (Cleary translates them as "enlightening beings") is they undergo rebirth voluntarily in order to save beings.

    Quote "Delimiting" is a tricky word unless maybe thought of as "making finite units", which are seen as Suchness by Buddha always, and by Bodhisattvas to some degree or other.
    By carving it up into cognitive images. It is surprising how closely this follows the process of infants becoming able to distinguish objects in the world.

    Quote In Ratnākaraśānti’s Nirākāravādin system, a buddha does not just attain the state of transmundane awareness. He intentionally maintains a pure form of mundane
    awareness that involves a slight bit of error in order to benefit beings.
    Okay, I get it, the "error" is just the descriptor for the perception of the world as cognitive images.

    Quote Because of arising that way (de ltar gyur pas; tathābhūta), although one experiences these [cognitive images], there is an error and an experience as though [one] is experiencing [something] else (gzhan).
    Okay, thanks.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote
    Quote In this and the other quotes, does ksara mean essence or fluid?
    No, it is the combined form of Aksara or syllable.
    Okay.
    Quote Kind of, except insisting truth onto something that is false.

    Sat is the term for Reality, Parabrahm, etc., amongst Hindus and Jains, "true existence" or Yixin, which cannot be a subject or object of Graha, so, if that is happening, you by definition are not experiencing it.
    Is this theosophical or Hindu?

    Quote "World" may or may not be the physical plane and so on. And so it would be in any way to take Appearance as a Cognitive Object as existing.

    The Nirakara system deletes the appearance or phenomena in order to prove this.
    Back to the non-differentiated world before akara.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Does that mean it is an ability to do samadhi? It is, I guess, physically near the crown of my head.
    That does sound nearly identical to Citra or the tip top Nadi that contacts Brahmarandra.

    Smrti is the ability or Upaya to do Samadhi.

    It is the male seed capable of perceiving Luminosity, but I, personally, believe that I have experienced this "through the energy of the centers alone" rather than the way the tantras actually teach it.

    Part of that is that the luminousness is supposed to involve the controlled interaction of Sadhana.

    Because most people like me have little ability to visualize, we cannot really do it, so I think we are just doing Dhyana.

    It sounds like a slightly higher correspondence of Khecari center but non-physical.

    Whatever, exactly, yours may be, that has got to be a vital bindu or nadi for Subtle Yoga.

    It sounds to me like you have the energetic equivalent of perhaps several classes of samadhi, but, when I look into am I starting to do this in accord with the teachings, it gives me Hero's March which is Surungama Sutra which is Parasol.

    Well, if anyone would have caught on to Sanskrit Buddhism ca. 1840, we would have known she is an Adi Prajna. Further, she has been stepped down and projected out into Kriya, and, I might almost say, idiot level. Now with the other Adi Prajnas, we would probably have to say that Vasudhara is a bit more formal, and that there is not really such a thing as Guhyesvari outside of direct communion. But this Parasol is a major exoteric deity all over Asia, and yet, at the same time, she is a hypostasis of Pandara, Aparajita, Pratyangira, and Vajradakini, and possibly Locana, Prajnaparamita, and Vajradhatvishvari, and is highly relevant to samadhi such as in her Bari lineage mantra.

    She can greatly assist but of course Smoky deities and Candi are the corresponding wrathful aspect.

    And so the thing is, if I tell myself I am practicing a Yoga Tantra level, then the related samadhi would consist of visualizing Parasol immediately in front of me facing as if we're having a conversation.

    To really "become" the deity, you are, of course, going to start by self-generating their form on your person. The samadhis you do will, if successful, some day lead to states such as Avesa and Transference.

    In the "four classes" of samadhi, if the first is Parasol, the second is Gagana Locana, and then you get to Vimala Prabha where again I could say, Vimala is Parasol, or, it is any way of using the samadhi to complete an Abhisambodhi sequence, which includes the Lights and the Pure Light. The final class is Play.

    Its intensity increases in Nine Spaces, or Vasudhara Treasure Bowls, etc.:

    82. Nine Succeeding Attainments of Concentration

    Navānupūrva-samādhi-samāpattayaḥ, tad-yathā:
    There are nine succeeding attainments of concentration, they are:

    {1-4} Catvāri dhyānāni,
    {1-4} The four absorptions,

    {5-8} catasra ārūpya-samāpattayo,
    {5-8} the four formless attainments,

    {9} nirodha-samāpattiś-ceti.
    {9} and the attainment of cessation.


    The view on the deity is, perhaps, almost the inverse of your experiences. It is more like an appliance. Especially since it mostly means does what its mantra says.

    On a Dharani basis, for example, I should be able to Mutter Parasol with something a bit more extensive and song-ish that fades out and continues mentally. If I was doing it right, she would actually appear before me.

    If I, personally, Mutter something, it means:

    this was requested from Vajradhara.

    I can say that yes, on a Yoga basis, you can manifest someone like Parasol or Usnisa Vijaya. That is why it is excellent that Namasangiti uses Dharanis corresponding to Paramitas, and, we found a kind of hidden conversation which more or less says that all the well-known male Bodhisattva-based systems are convertible to female by dharani because it is a type of vidya or i. e. is self-effective according to what they are about.

    Following the whole historical arising of tantra, it would eventually say you need female deities anyway because Vajrasattva interacts with Vajri devis and goes on from there. At a certain point, he becomes Vajradaka or i. e. Smrti in terms of Seven Syllable deity. Because that is a self-generation process, I cannot say to actually do it, instead what we have is all the assemblies that are supposed to go into this and Cinnamasta.

    In the long run, I am going to try to get Janguli--Manasa to operate through her Seven Serpent Hood, very akin to Sarvadurgati Parishodana, if that makes sense. The serpents are reverse poisons against whatever is interfering with any of the seven principles.

    In actuality I just made an invocative plea to her and if anything I mostly just do Emptiness mantra related to White Vajra Tara and Mrtyuvacana.

    But one could get Avalokiteshvara with different results, and so on. Unlike the deities which are within the body, it is whichever one that to you represents ultimate enlightened consciousness. Because I have previously done this with basic Tara, other aspects of her are pretty comfortably accessible. I really did think about this and with what I could get from Vajra Tara, which was not a true samadhi but mostly Bhava, the sense was fine and slightly amused.

    And so if it makes sense that right now I focus Emptiness, that is because I have nothing like the one drop that will make anything useful come through. I am trying to get something like that while vaporizing human ego off the Japa of the mantra.




    Quote I can't remember the name of the person who hypothesized that it might actually be Avalokitashvara so that it had the meaning about sounds, but the Chinese translation (which later became the Japanese Kanzeon or Kannon for short, same characters), was one of the reasons. More recently, there was an archaeological find that pretty much proved him right.

    The way we had originally reversed it was so it was more of an adjective, lordliness, which is seen, i. e. Luminosity.

    It may be Sound which is Seen, which would still imply the former.

    There is debate whether "loka" past participle of "to see", i. e., "seen", is the subject or object. And so the version that was refused was "lord looking down from on high", which in most ways is irrelevant in terms of one's own abilities.

    It looks like when that meaning is intended by sadhanas, it says Vyava.

    If "Ava" was not interpreted as "down", could it work some other way?

    2) (As a prefix to verbs) It expresses (a) determination; अवधृ, अवसो (avadhṛ, avaso); (b) diffusion, pervasion; अवकॄ-कीर्ण (avakṝ-kīrṇa); (c) disrespect; अवज्ञा, अवमन् (avajñā, avaman); (d) littleness; व्रीहीनवहन्ति (vrīhīnavahanti); (e) support, resting upon; अवलम्ब् (avalamb); (f.) purification, अवदात (avadāta); (g) depreciation, discomfiture; अवहन्ति शत्रून् (avahanti śatrūn) (parābhavati); (h) commanding; अवक्लृप् (avaklṛp); (i) depression, bending down; अवतृ, अवगाह् (avatṛ, avagāh) (j) knowledge; अवगम्, अवइ (avagam, avai).

    Ava (अव).—ind. A preposition and prefix to words, corresponding to off, from, down from, out, away, &c. and implying; 1. Diminution. 2. Depreciation. 3. Diffusion. 4. Support, resting. 5. Commanding. 6. Purifying, correcting. 7. Knowledge. 8. Disrespect. 9. Nourishing.


    "I command sound to be seen".





    Quote The alchemy is to bring water over fire to create power to create the microcosmic orbit inside, the untrained body has fire over water which leads to dissipation.
    I don't really know what it means, but ok. Significant change of state in their terms.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Voluntarily is one way of taking rebirth and then consciously.

    As Tvastr smithing your own Nadi network from a cell.

    In the Buddhist terms "salvation" is like a cumulative power of the Sangha. It is like encouraging and assisting other beings who make their own salvation, Ekayana. You have to have Upeksa because you know they are going to have to suffer immensely to ripen their own karmic seeds.



    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    It is surprising how closely this follows the process of infants becoming able to distinguish objects in the world.
    Yes.

    The slowed-down version of what an adult experiences across an arc of a few milliseconds.

    Also close to the Bardo.


    Quote Okay, I get it, the "error" is just the descriptor for the perception of the world as cognitive images.

    Yes, any of it is finite and therefor not Absolute.

    And so in the Nepali expression, consciousness by meditation is said to revolve from Pravrtti to Nirvrtti as its own equivalent of cosmic creation and destruction. Nirakara is a system of pretty much the same thing with Mundane--Laukika and Transcendental--Lokottara.

    And so when it says the natural condition is rest and the meditation teaches cessation, in actual terms, taking Buddha's enlightenment initiation as a platform, this took around four to six hours of him dissolving the voids. It is true, that in Buddhist yoga, there are people who have done cessation for several days up to several months, and it is likely Santikar Acharya did it permanently. As a "skill", therefor, it seems likely to say that the Bodhisattva trains it for longer periods of time than what the more powerful Buddha needs to accomplish his Final Samadhi.

    It is not Adwaita because it is not telling you to just go into the nirvana of it and because it is telling you the Bodhisattva Path can be eonic.

    The central subject is basically the same thing if some of our writers have gone as far to call it Parameswara.




    Sat is ubiquitous.

    Saccidānanda (सच्चिदानन्द) refers to:—Sat–Pure eternal reality, cit–knowledge, and ānanda–bliss. (cf. Glossary page from Śrī Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta).

    Sat (सत्) refers to “eternal, pure, godly. It is used to describe the Absolute Truth. Vrajendra-nandana Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the complete sat entity. It also refers to His abodes, incarnations, devotees, the bona fide guru, etc”. (cf. Glossary page from Śrīmad-Bhagavad-Gītā).


    Source: Jain eLibrary: 7th International Summer School for Jain Studies

    The definitive word for reality is ‘sat’ or existent. Each existent is with origination–decay and permanence simultaneously. Thus reality is said to be persistence with change. Existents are characterised by dravya (substance) and the realms of substances are classified as jīva (living beings with consciousness) and non living beings (ajīva or without consciousness).



    And so I can take the general yoga Sat Cit Ananda and reverse it and go, well, the first resistance is Parikalpita and my main weapon against that is No Ego which is most powerfully achieved by Bliss. What is the Cit or knowledge Buddha knows? Suchness, so, that eliminates the second threshhold and you are in Ultimate Reality.

    Same thing as the general subject but in a particular explanation.

    A non-Buddhist can share Buddha's Transmundane Awareness without ever really gaining Buddha's power (Aparajita).

    Parasol is an incredible Paramartha deity, it means identical to Parinispanna which is considered Ultimate Meaning which can hardly be put in words. Parasol is Aparajita which is Buddha's Power which is Acintya.

    And so Nirakara is the correct designation for a type of sect or school and the system it uses, whereas Parasunya is a more tantricly-accurate term for the intended state, and this is what Mrtyuvacana Tara is teaching as Emptiness Mantra, and is again in close agreement with Nath. It is more commonly called Sarva Sunya, however the term Parasunya is a bit more dharmic as it implies the related philosophy and practice, which is why it works as a basic White Tara teaching. The name would tend to make you think it is not Yogacara, but, roughly put, Nirakara takes what it considers to be true from both Yogacara and Madhyamika.


    To us, Sat is expressed in a few ways, Paramartha, Parinispanna, Adi Buddha and Adi Prajna, many would just prefer to call it Sunya and be done with it. Our name will not affect it. However the way we train it will affect us. Re-arising from the Void is to spread the Bliss of it. Salvation, power of the Sangha.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Smrti is the ability or Upaya to do Samadhi.
    This is interesting, samyak smrti and samyak samadhi (samma sati and samma samadhi) are two of the eightfold path.

    Quote To really "become" the deity, you are, of course, going to start by self-generating their form on your person. The samadhis you do will, if successful, some day lead to states such as Avesa and Transference.

    In the "four classes" of samadhi, if the first is Parasol, the second is Gagana Locana, and then you get to Vimala Prabha where again I could say, Vimala is Parasol, or, it is any way of using the samadhi to complete an Abhisambodhi sequence, which includes the Lights and the Pure Light. The final class is Play.
    Some of this sounds like it includes luminosity?

    Quote Because I have previously done this with basic Tara, other aspects of her are pretty comfortably accessible. I really did think about this and with what I could get from Vajra Tara, which was not a true samadhi but mostly Bhava, the sense was fine and slightly amused.

    And so if it makes sense that right now I focus Emptiness, that is because I have nothing like the one drop that will make anything useful come through. I am trying to get something like that while vaporizing human ego off the Japa of the mantra.
    I do understand about sound being important and mantra being a part of some samadhis but I'm not familiar with vaporizing human ego this way.
    Quote If "Ava" was not interpreted as "down", could it work some other way?
    My Sanskrit textbook says that ava- does mean the things you list, but it seems to be able to work on verbs is a kind of oblique way. The example they give is, 'gam'.
    gam conjugates to gacchati as third person singular present (so called present stem).
    It means "to go".
    'Agacchati' (long A) means likewise "to come" because of 'A' in this form.
    'avagacchati' using 'ava-' means 'to understand' - which doesn't seem guessable.

    Nevertheless, the accepted wisdom is the original was Avalokitashvara split up as 'avalokita' to look down on and 'shvara' sound. The "looking down" part was important when they were translating it as 'avalokita ishvara' but it may be much closer to the Chines 'guan' which means to look but also to pay attention and also to 'mind' or attend. It was Kumarajiva who translated that that way, he's usually reliable.

    Quote I don't really know what it means, but ok. Significant change of state in their terms.
    This is the original symbol that was called the Taiji. You can see the trigrams in the circle with the different colored lines. Water under fire the fire goes up the water down, so dissipating. Fire under water, produces steam and pressure and cooks medicines, so magical.
    Last edited by Old Student; 9th May 2021 at 06:50.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    I am looking at how Chakrasamvara may have arrived at Seven Mothers, and, I have probably went out on a limb because it is writing the Pithas in an unusual way; Marudese is simply Maru which is normally there. I noticed this by comparing to the explanatory tantras which usually each has its own way of grouping and classifying the Pithas, and so here are a few of those along with some definitions to keep in mind:


    Kulatā has the presiding Ḍākinī named Mahāvīryā whose husband, or hero (vīra) is named Vajrasattva. The associated internal location are the ‘knees’ and the bodily ingredient (dhātu) is the ‘snivel’. According to the Vajraḍākavivṛti, the districts Kulatā, Maru, Pretapurī and Triśakuni are associated with the family deity of Vārāhī; while in the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Viśvaḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Nagara, Sindhu, Maru and Kulatā.

    According to the Vajraḍākavivṛti, the districts Sindhu, Nagara, Pūrṇagiri and Jālandhara are associated with the family deity of Yāminī; while in the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Viśvaḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Nagara, Sindhu, Maru and Kulatā.


    So it is probably as simple as there are Six Yoginis in Kulata and Six Mothers in Maru and these are close together in most of the related tantras,


    I was also confused about the recurrence of "kula" which looks like "family" but isn't always. For instance, Kulata is also just the name of a Pitha although its general meaning is:

    Kulaṭā (कुलटा) [Also spelled kulta]:—(nf and a) (an) unchaste (woman), (a) lewd (woman).

    which is followed on the second line by, I believe, the inhabitant of Nagara:

    Kulanāyikā (कुलनायिका).—a girl worshipped at the celebration of the orgies of the lefthand Śāktas.


    But this is not quite a one-to-one set of correspondences, because Lampaka and Saurastra are both the site of Kuladevata.

    According to the Vajraḍākavivṛti, the districts Lampāka, Saurāṣṭra, Oḍra and Kāmarūpa are associated with the family deity of Mohanī; while in the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Padmaḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Kaliṅga, Kāñcī, Lampāka and Himālaya (Himagiri).

    Kosala has what I am not sure is a yogini or a description:

    Piśitāsanā (पिशितासना) or Agnivaktrā is the name of a Goddess (Devī) presiding over Sopāra: one of the twenty-four sacred districts mentioned in the 9th century Vajraḍākatantra (chapter 18). Her weapon is the kaṭṭārikā. Furthermore, Piśitāsanā is accompanied by an unmentioned Kṣetrapāla (field-protector) and their abode is a śālmali-tree; flesh-eater, a demon, goblin.


    Kosala has the presiding Ḍākinī named Surābhakṣī whose husband, or hero (vīra) is named Vajrahūṃkāra. The associated internal location are the ‘tip o the nose’ and the bodily ingredients (dhātu) are the ‘wreath of entrails’. According to the Vajraḍākavivṛti, the districts Kaliṅga, Kosala, Suvarṇadvīpa and Oḍyāyana are associated with the family deity of Caṇḍikā; while in the Abhidhānottarottaratantra there is the Ḍāka deity named Ratnaḍāka standing in the center of the districts named Kāmarūpa, Triśakuni, Oḍra and Kosala.

    When we get there, we see Pretapura comes up twice.

    Sthula or physical body has to do with the entire generation of Khandaroha who is usually considered to be in Grhadevata, but, in the sense that it is written here, it appears more that Vajradakini is generated from her. It is possible Pretapura is an adjective to her and she is actually in Kosala. Khandaroha is a process rather than a distinct name in this section, in Trisakuna.

    Pulliramalaya has a description or character:

    Kanakādri (कनकाद्रि):—[from kanaka > kan] m. the mountain Meru

    and a Candali

    Kulaja (कुलज).—[adjective] born of noble race.


    And so those are in what is probably an unbalanced list, i. e., it looks like it might simply locate and name two dakinis per line, but this is not what it does:

    ṣaḍyoginyaḥ kulatāyāṃ marudeśe ṣaḍmātarāḥ |
    sindhudeśe lāmā ca nagare kulanāyikāḥ || 10 ||
    lampā[ kā ]yāṃ saurāṣṭre ca kuladevatā sthitāḥ |
    pretapuryāṃ mahākanyā ḍākinī saharupiṇī || 11 ||
    himādrau caiva kāñcyāṃ ca kathiatā sabālikā iti |
    pañcālaviṣaye gṛhadevatā kaliṅge ca vratadhāriṇyaḥ || 12 ||
    piśitāśanā kośale tu pretapuryāṃ vajraḍākinyaḥ |
    sthūleśvare triśakunau khaṇḍarohākulodbhavāḥ || 13 ||
    pullīramalaye kanakādrau ca caṇḍālakulajāḥ striyaḥ |
    sahastrāṇyekaviṃśatiḥ || 14 ||


    It evidently just climbed Mt. Meru, then, more or less starts over from there.





    Sarira--Body Mandala has Pracanda as source Kramena-- in regular course, gradually, by degrees, [Rāmāyaṇa; Pañcatantra; Raghuvaṃśa] etc., gets Seven Mothers in Marudese where there were Six above:

    śarīrastheṣu maṇḍalastheṣu vā pullīramalayādiṣu pracaṇḍādayaḥ krameṇa jñeyāḥ |
    bahirdeśeṣu tu tajjātīyā yathā tathā vā | vajravārāhī yāminyādayaḥ ṣaḍmātarā iti |
    saptamātṛrupāḥ marudeśe | lāmājātīyāḥ kulanāyikā ti | śrīherukakulodbhūtāḥ |


    If I took it according to general knowledge, I would think it says Varahi emanates Yamini and the Six Armor Deities which is inclusive of them both. Still a rolling total of Six and then Seven Mothers.

    It seems to repeat almost the same thing as before, but in a few cases there are different notes.

    You have gotten Heruka and Seven Mothers, somehow, by starting from Pracanda. It then respectfully tells you to begin by honoring your tutelary deity and then you are right back in Pretapura:


    lampā[ kā ]yāṃ saurāṣṭre ca kuladevatā iti | kuladevatārupāḥ pūjyā ityarthaḥ | pretapuryāṃ
    mahākanyā ḍākinī saharupiṇīti | kanyārupā ḍākinī rupiṇījātīyāḥ |



    Here in nice simple terms it tells you when Pretapura comes round again it is the Cemeteries which are the same Element as non-dual union:

    kośale piśitāśanā mahāmaṃsāśanāḥ | preta-
    puryāṃ vajraḍākinya iti | pretapurīsaṃbhūtā yoginyo'dvayajñānāḥ |


    If Vajra Dakini is sometimes called "Devouring Dakini", this would match Pisitasana here, a flesh-eater like a pisaci or raksasa.

    Also we find Khandaroha emanating a Bhuta or Element:


    sthūleśvarādiṣu khaṇḍa-
    rohākulodbhūtāḥ | pullīramalaye kanakagirāviti |


    It is not that descriptive of the Six Yoginis, as Mohani is named once as a retinue member and that's it. It looks like the Karma Vak Siddhi chapter is designating Armor and uses a plain Vak Siddhi and interfaces it with Karma of the Six Yoginis. So it is probably a long description on how to make Armor work well wuthout actually naming the participants.

    The text does, however, operate Khandaroha at least a little bit, and near her, there is:

    kālamṛtyuvañcanaṃ caiva aṅge khaṭvāṅgayojitam || 6 ||

    This part also has Vajrasrnkhala.




    Although Kamarupa is a Pitha, the whole set appears to be slated for revealing the personal Kama Rupa or Mayavi Rupa:

    tāḥ sarvāḥ kāmarupiṇyo manovega nivṛtaye || 9 ||


    which seems reinforced again near the end:

    kāmarupo mahāvīrayogī syānnātra saṃśayaḥ || 15 ||



    It appears largely correct that this Root Chakrasamvara does not explain itself in full detail and would force me into some related branch if it seemed curious to me they changed it to Seven Mothers.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote vajravārāhī yāminyādayaḥ ṣaḍmātarā iti |
    saptamātṛrupāḥ marudeśe |


    If I took it according to general knowledge, I would think it says Varahi emanates Yamini and the Six Armor Deities which is inclusive of them both. Still a rolling total of Six and then Seven Mothers.
    Since it's only taken me 2 dictionaries one textbook and two weeks to chase this down, I am proud to share. In the other text, when I had thought it said something about a Dakini - dayo like Dharma-dayo, I was making a mistake. That one isn't Dharmadayo, it's Dharmodaya from Dharma-udaya 'source of the dharma.' This one and the other are a suffix of ādayaḥ, which in some cases becomes ādayaṣ and means 'in the lead' or 'leading'.

    So in the other case it was Dakinyādayaḥ -> Dakinyādayo Dakini in the lead.

    Here it is "Vajravarahi - Yamini leading six matrkas thus. The seven matrikas of the desert lands."

    Yamini is the armor deity at Vajravarahi's heart, the others with her protect her is what I was able to find out. Together they make up the seven matrkas.

    I had a heck of a time finding someplace that would tell me what that suffix meant, but since it shows up in a lot of the stuff you post, it could be useful going forward.

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