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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote 20. Their names are Śraddhā (faith), Lakṣmī (fortune), Dhṛti (fortitude), Tuṣṭi (satiety), Puṣṭi (nourishment), Medhā (intelligence), Kriyā (rite, activity), Buddhi (intellect, wisdom), Lajjā (Bashfulness), Vasu (wealth), Śānti (peace, calmness), Siddhi (achievement, accomplishment) and the thirteenth is Kīrti (fame).
    This is someone named Lajja (these names are traits, purposefully), but this is not Lajja Gauri. The latter does not separate, it's a phrase, "lajja gauri". That was part of the point of that article, that this is a descriptive of the statue, not the name of the deity. And a weird one. 'Lajja' means the same thing in many languages -- Kannada and Bengali for instance, even though Kannada is Dravidian and Bengali is a Prakrit. But 'gauri' means woman in Prakrit languages or in Sanskrit (where it also means beautiful), but means nothing at all in Kannada. Hence the search to figure out who it really is, rather than what it is called.

    Quote So far no one seems to say who Bhima Devi "is", but, you can find the strong association to Bhima Kali and Gandhari.
    Very similar. This is why I had been looking for a layer below. I have a second reason now as well. I had a shaking in which the world decomposed (not that startling for shaking I guess) but not form, like in the dissolve, and not consciousness, like the dreaming portability and things. This time it was time. It came apart like an intersection of planes in a high-dimensional space. Only instead of being a dimension (as it is in Lorentzian spacetime) it was like a normal bundle. Which has in common that it is perpendicular to space, but normal bundles are multidimensional themselves. At any rate, there were three 'eons'.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote I have no problem in at least thinking that a high degree of magic has been around for a million years or more, as well as believing in Historical Buddhas across all time.
    The first archaeological evidence of magic/medicine would be Zinjanthropus, who was a million years ago. He had been trephined, with evidence of healing afterwards.

    Quote Sanjiva is one of the Eight Hot Hells or Seven Patalas, but lacks the -na or -ni, even though it holds the same basic meaning, "reviving hell".

    That is why I took it as the transmutation of Death to Life, in the world (loke), obeisance to you (naumi), destroyer of thousands.
    This works. I like it better than what I came up with.
    Quote Since she "is", as far as I can tell, Final Samadhi, and no one else is exactly, and, she came from Buddha, the un-written-ness of her is rather profound.
    Then the name does fit, a destroyer being associated with the blowing out.
    Quote Pratisara is Mamaki, so, here, we also have a Sutra-based outer version of Guhyesvari, perhaps like having Locana in Vajra Family.
    I had gotten the feeling that the list had a discernible beginning and ending in actions, that is why I jumped to conclusions on Pramardini. Even having been corrected, it still looks like a progression of actions.

    Quote Digging around a little more, I see that 84000 is a 100-year project, coupled with a sixty-year project called Kumarajiva, which is translation to Chinese.
    Aptly named, he was the greatest (best) of the Sanskrit to Chinese translators.

    Quote Arguably, it is Nepalese tantra, which has a Sutra version across Asia.
    Just as arguably, it's because Nepal is where things survive. Rila Mukherjee has a theory (along with some other people) that societies that exist at the corners of maps are different from those that occupy the center. Older things are often found there.

    Quote Concerning this he continued, “Bodily mindfulness, tranquility and insight, the three absorptions, the four bases of supernatural power, the four thorough relinquishments, the four foundations of mindfulness, the four concentrations, the four truths of the noble ones, the five faculties, the five powers, the six kinds of mindfulness, the seven aspects of awakening, the eightfold path of the noble ones, the nine successive stages of meditative equipoise, the ten powers of a thus-gone one, the eleven liberated sense fields, the twelve links of dependent origination, the twelvefold wheel of Dharma, the sixteen recollections of inhaling and exhaling the breath, the eighteen unique attributes of a buddha, and the forty-two letters‍—all this, Brahmā, is in the queen of incantations called Destroyer of the Great Trichiliocosm.
    This is a great list, collected in one place. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    If we look at a large Pancha Raksha mandala, then they carry non-surprising retinues similar to Sarvadurgati Parishodhana, such as the Eight Directions, Nine Planets, the Lunar Mansions, and the Four Kings. All we have to do is turn to Pramardini and it stuffs in most of the tantric additives such as the senses, ayatanas, jewels of enlightenment, eightfold path, and balas.

    In other words, they can take control of almost any appropriate teaching.

    In personal practices, one can find for instance an Amitabha thangka showing the Pancha Raksa framed by Usnisavijaya and Sattvavajri. It would seem arbitrary unless you get how that draws from STTS and Sarvadurgati Parishodhana.

    If we don't take it too literally that x spell is against fevers and so on, but focus on the aspects related to sadhana practice or inner meaning, then we will get a slightly different meaning for protection, or perhaps a grander purpose for its own sake. This is like the whole pantheon of deities, you can read about "protectors" fifty times and start to wonder what are they so busy guarding.

    Does each Raksa have a type of distinct individual character that shows something exemplary of the inner teaching, yes, I think so. Inner teaching means transforms us into a Bodhisattva so our subtle body is capable of comprehending Buddha's Wisdom.

    DSBC has not published the Pancha Raksa Sutra yet, neither has 84000, but there is a GRETIL Mahasitavati Sutra, which comes from a 1937 Kyoto publication.

    It is incredibly short; it specifies that the location is a Maha Smasana. Probably half the thing is the dharani, which, aside from other clues, has:

    gauri gandhāri / caṇḍāli vetāli / mātaṅgi /

    Buddha gave this stuff to his own son, Amulet protection while he was in the womb, and Cemetery Yoga during his life when he was troubled. The difference between him and us is that he had the power, and we only have the potential.

    We cannot prove it was written down until some thousand years after it happened, however, it is so small that it would not be hard to think of Ananda transmitting a lineage of it, compared to someone memorizing the entire Lotus Sutra.

    So, there is not much need for me to grapple with whether the name ends in -bani, -vani, or-vati, either way means the same deity, although this original document shows -vati. No need to associate by synonyms with whether it has to do with the origin of Upa Yoga to Padmasambhava and others. It is self-apparent as the cemetery of Rajagriha, where a dharani to assist Afflicted Mind used Gauris--Pisacis to do so.

    It is like a small, portable, dharani-based Lotus Sutra, which most likely was prior to it.

    The devi who displays the most extreme personal transformation has almost no meaning other than mantra deity.

    Mantranusarini originates at Jetvana Grove in Sravasti.

    The audience was relatively concentrated:

    At that time, Brahmā, master of the Sahā world, with the gods of the Brahmā realm; Śakra, lord of the gods, with the gods of the Heaven of the Thirty-Three; the four great kings, with the gods of their realm; the twenty-eight great yakṣa generals; and Hārītī with her children and retinue of servants went before the Blessed One, bowed their heads at his feet, and stood to one side.

    Brahma says he is lord of the chiliocosm, and refers to Buddha as the lord of the great trichiliocosm. In Prajnaparamita, Buddha is said to "transform the Saha world".

    Buddha acquiesces to the request by silence; Brahma understands and vanishes.

    So instead of denying Brahma is the substratum--i. e. via Hiranyagarbha and all the Puranic evolution--he is no longer the current authority about how to deal with it.

    This is not a cemetery and something else is going on:

    Monks, this queen of incantations, Great Upholder of the Secret Mantra, was taught by the perfectly and completely awakened thus-gone arhats of the past. It will be taught by the perfectly and completely awakened thus-gone arhats in the future. And likewise, right now in the present, I will also teach it as an aid for the awakening of buddhahood.

    The recipient is Ananda.

    The purpose is protection, but also the delivery of peace and well-being. Here, the chiliocosm is dismissed, compared to the extreme of Pramardini who destroys it, and in whose sutra large numbers of yaksas are destroyed, this one really just indicates stoppage:

    This queen of incantations, Great Upholder of the Secret Mantra, will intoxicate all those with hostile intentions, ill will, animosity, and rage, as well as all demons, [F.154.b] trail guards, fort guards, and customs guards. It will intoxicate them, cause paralysis and stupefaction, and seize their hands, feet, minds, and tongues.

    It focuses Ksanti Paramita:

    Patience is the supreme austerity;
    Patience is the supreme nirvāṇa‍—so proclaims the Buddha.

    It speaks of freeing the Moon from Rahu, and the power of True Words, similar to Vak Siddhi:

    By such truth and true words, as follows: in order that I‍—a blessed, perfectly and completely awakened, thus-gone arhat‍—may end this person’s desire, anger, and ignorance, by the truth and true words of the teaching, explanation, and enunciation of the 84,000 sections of teachings, may the sicknesses of the person named such-and-such come to an end!

    It would be a mistake to say this is a protection dharani. Although it has this as an outer aspect, it is for the purpose of Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi, an aid for complete awakening. This is what, in the major mandala, is exalted in Jewel Family in the wrong color and wrong place by a Twelve Arm White form.

    In terms of the retinue ring, Mayuri is like the absorbed pre-history of Buddhist practice, there is a cemetery goddess handling Gauris--Pisacis, a mantra goddess who foreshadows transforming the Saha world, and one who adheres to all of its aspects, destroying them utterly so it is replaced by Buddha's great trichiliocosm.

    It obviously does not contain all the sutras and tantras in detail, but, to expand and understand it, operates the vast majority of them.

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    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    This is someone named Lajja (these names are traits, purposefully), but this is not Lajja Gauri. The latter does not separate, it's a phrase, "lajja gauri". That was part of the point of that article, that this is a descriptive of the statue, not the name of the deity.
    Allright. I can accept a distinction. This Lajja may be a mental pre-manifestation, but does not appear to directly be Adi Shakti.

    Quote This time it was time. It came apart like an intersection of planes in a high-dimensional space. Only instead of being a dimension (as it is in Lorentzian spacetime) it was like a normal bundle. Which has in common that it is perpendicular to space, but normal bundles are multidimensional themselves. At any rate, there were three 'eons'.

    I am not sure I follow the terminology, but, I would tend to say it may not be a "dimension" as per spacetime, and if this "inherent unity" is not exactly correct, then Relativity is operating on something that does not exist.

    Once you start removing Time, then, as far as I can tell, you are at the high end of any description of a yoga path, like the "Path of Learning" in Buddhism. Removing the divisions is like taking it all at once, which does supposedly happen at the Relativistic Event Horizon. Removing the whole thing is like...it isn't...since it goes beyond words, we mostly can only talk about safe entry and exit from such a state of being, or non-being, or absolute be-ness.

    I, personally, enjoy the oxymoron of infinite nothingness of nothingness combined with an ultra-powerful divine manifestation, although I have no clue how to do them simultaneously like Buddha, for now I do not mind the illusion of Time swinging me like a pendulum between extremes.

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    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The first archaeological evidence of magic/medicine would be Zinjanthropus, who was a million years ago. He had been trephined, with evidence of healing afterwards.
    Sure, we see this in the fossil records along with cave diagrams which may be spiritual in nature at multi-million years of age.

    Quote I had gotten the feeling that the list had a discernible beginning and ending in actions, that is why I jumped to conclusions on Pramardini. Even having been corrected, it still looks like a progression of actions.
    I think so.

    Final Samadhi incorporates the "most secret" articles such as Jnana Mudra and the sequence of initiations, which are about the only things not attached to Pancha Raksa. They display the most basic Pancha format or individual sadhana practices up to Maha Rudra Krama or, roughly, the majority of Generation Stage.

    If Pramardini "is" Final Samadhi, it is not necessary she do so in this retinue, just like Mayuri is traipzing off both to indicate Tara's Pure Land and Yamari Tantra.

    Quote Just as arguably, it's because Nepal is where things survive. Rila Mukherjee has a theory (along with some other people) that societies that exist at the corners of maps are different from those that occupy the center. Older things are often found there.
    Similar to Switzerland.

    Yes, Nepal if not the source of everything, was an early recipient. One would not dispute that the majority of Buddha's Buddha career was around Rajgriha. Whenever Pancha Raksa made that relatively small move, it was interpreted tantricly.

    Part of that is because there is no such thing as Mahayana in Nepal, it is all Vajrayana.

    As for the given aspects of Pramardini, it again is similar to the numerological progression of deities in the Nepali pantheon, or several mandala retinues. What occurs to me offhand is:

    Bodily mindfulness [Sati], tranquility [Prasrabdhi] and insight [Vispassa], the three absorptions [Tri-samadhi Vyuha], the four bases of supernatural power, the four thorough relinquishments, the four foundations of mindfulness,

    the four concentrations, [Heroic March, Sky Entry, Lion's Sport, etc.]

    the four truths of the noble ones, [Four Noble Truths which actually designate what we call the sixth and seventh skandhas]

    the five faculties, [indriyas]

    the five powers, [balas]

    the six kinds of mindfulness, [Families]

    the seven aspects of awakening, [Seven Jewels of Enlightenment]

    the eightfold path of the noble ones, [Noble Eightfold Path]

    the nine successive stages of meditative equipoise, [Sampattis, Dhyanas or Janas]

    the ten powers of a thus-gone one, [dasabala]

    the eleven liberated sense fields, [perhaps indicating Vajradhatvishvari and the single allowed exit]

    the twelve links of dependent origination, [Alaya]

    the twelvefold wheel of Dharma,

    the sixteen recollections of inhaling and exhaling the breath, [Smrti of sixteen vowels and voids]

    the eighteen unique attributes of a buddha, [number of arms of the worshippable form of universal deities]

    and the forty-two letters [consonants]

    So, roughly, most of what I describe as the Yoga Path focuses the Six Families and above, separated by the Seven Jewels as a self-manifest gate to Completion Stage, or the Highest Yoga attempt at it.

    Pramardini is bigger, and in a certain sense more flexible, since she does not specifically say the Seven Jewels are manifest as vajradakinis. She can handle the concept, the practice, or the realization.

    Yes, just taking her at face value, she gives ninety percent of the entire corpus by way of reference. The other Pancha Raksha supply more mundane components such as the Four Kings. The only things not explicitly stated here are the most vivid tantric details such as mudra, abhisekha, dharmodaya, etc., which are already suggested by Mantranusarini as "an aid to complete awakening", which those are. Also by Mayuri as synonymous to Sabari.

    All throughout her text it is said that a single piece of it will do the trick. So this strongly resembles Parasol, and one of these dharanis is Paramartha somewhere. If you just take a bit where one of them is the Three Jewels or Refuge Vow it is good. If you can go further and find the whole lot as five-fold form, with this being only a minor constituent of Pramardini, better. If you can raise her in a sandwich-layered aspect of senses and minds, etc., even better still. It is similar to Ganapati--a very "take it and use it" without being too formal, and, if you follow the teaching to the best of your ability, you are doing it right.

    Bhattacharya for some reason catalogued Pancha Raksa from NSP, and compared them to Sadhanamala 206, failing to mention they had a prior, more basic format.

    The NSP version is probably more recognizable since all the deities are larger, is probably in most of the art:

    Four face, twelve arm Jewel Yellow Pratisara
    Four face, ten arm white Cakra Pramardini
    Three face, twelve arm blue Vajra Mantranusarin doing Dharmacakra and Samadhi Mudras
    Three face, eight arm red Lotus Sitabani
    Three face, eight arm green Mayuri with a Jewel, a Mendicant on Bowl, a jar spilling jewels, and a Banner with Crossed Vajra and Jewel

    Although this may be common, it should be borne in mind that NSP is a catalogue of Completion Stage practices. And so these forms are slightly larger than in Sadhanamala, but, they have also been rolled back into a very standard Mahamaya-type format with just single families in given spots, just looking a bit weird compared to most, because, by analysis, Jewel Family must have switched to the center of something that was originally a Vajra or Akshobhya-centered tantra.

    Pramardini is in her same position, but evidently in Tathagata Family.

    Compared to the first or basic iteration in Sadhanamala, putting them in corresponding order:

    Four face, Eight arm Jewel Pratisara
    Six arm white Vairocana Pramardini
    Four arm blue Vajra Mantranusarini
    Four arm red Jim-arisen Lotus Family Sitabani
    Three face, six arm green Karma Mayuri, having in her left hands a Ratnacchata:

    2) A collection of rays of light, lustre, splendour, light

    and a Kalasa. Also an archer, but no fly whisk.

    206 is very weird and very doing something. We cannot get the full NSP text to see if it says anything much about them; Sadhanamala definitely does. Mayuri is ostensibly handling a lot of traffic of the "newer" tantric families Jewel and Karma. 206 converts Pramardini to Vajra Family in full kapala regalia, triples Jewel Family by giving it two new members, and seems to discard Lotus Family completely. It also discards Karma Family, since the final green Sitabani is in Tathagata Family, even though her main hand does Abhaya Mudra, and she converts Yaksas into Indriya Bala Visodhani.

    From Tara practice, Yellow Mayuri would not be new, but otherwise she does not conform to what most people think Pancha Raksa is.

    So when we look at representations, we will probably mostly find the NSP version, which should be the last one we ought to pay any attention to. It should be obvious since none of them have less than eight arms, whereas in the basic Sadhanamala version, all of the retinue has less than eight arms.

    So far we have found only one historical attempt to portray 206 correctly.

    Now for the Jewel Family I have encountered something strange.

    In Tara's legend, roughly put, she was brought into our world by Avalokiteshvara, after having achieved Full Enlightenment in a prior cosmos with Amoghasiddhi.

    Similarly, there is a Prophecy of Sri Mahadevi which is set in Sukhavati with Avalokiteshvara as the querent, and Sri Mahadevi slithers up by his side as if she belonged in the midst of ten million Buddhas:

    Then Bodhisattva Mahāsattva Ārya Avalokiteśvara asked the Bhagavān, “Bhagavān, where did Śrī Mahādevī generate her roots of virtue?”

    The Bhagavān replied, “Śrī Mahādevī [F.247.b] generated roots of virtue in the presence of tathāgatas as numerous as the grains of sand of the River Ganges. O Avalokiteśvara, previously, in the past in a world system called Ratna­saṃbhavā...

    and we can guess why the name of its Buddha is often abbreviated:

    Ratna­ kusuma ­guṇa ­sāgara ­vaiḍūrya ­kanaka ­giri ­suvarṇa ­kāṃcana ­prabhāsa ­śrī

    She is going to convey six Paramitas.

    She will be a Buddha Ratnasambhava in a future Jewel World.

    She then has 108 names renowned as Stainless--Vimala.

    These include Padmasambhava and Daksayani, as well as Prabhasvara and Beloved of Kubera.

    She has a dharani based from Ganga and Savitri and the Four Vedas.

    Buddhist Lakshmi, like Mayuri, mainly shows traffic between Jewel and Karma Families, yet here she is also connected to Lotus and Tathagatagarbha, and it is territorial, so she can take over a house or land.

    If Jewel and Karma Families are/were new, weird, or tantric, then we have an even worse reply in saying they come from previous world systems in the vehicles of Lakshmi and Tara.

    From the "gravy" approach, one could say a few things with respect to "Samgraha" as a text title, like a "big basket". And so Dharma Samgraha is kind of a routine one, i. e. you can refer to Dharmas in the 40s and quickly compare that to the given layers or rings of Pramardini, she is probably not identical, but partly so.

    The obscure but substantial one is Subhasita Samgraha, which is hard to find since it pales in comparison to an identically-titled classical book of 25,000 Sanskrit quotes. The Buddhist one is, however, drawing from Saraha and Nagarjuna and so on and briefly glosses Mahamaya and then gives one of the few if any Buddhakapala commentaries known to exist.

    But then if I have Pancha Raksa, then I could ask Dharani Samgraha, and quickly find that Mayuri occupies pp. 384-409.

    Sitavati follows:

    gorīgandhāri | caṇḍālivetā limāta varccāsi |

    or probably "vetali mata" there.

    She is Vira Tara here as well as her Sutra.

    Paramartha Sadhani

    kinnare | keyūre | ketumati |

    among her attributes, summarizing herself as:

    nadī bālikā samairbbuddhai bhagavat bhirbhāṣitābhāṣiṣyante || āryya mahāśītavatīnāma mahāvidyārājñī parisamāptā || 4 ||

    Paramartha is rare, appearing with Namasangiti and/or Manjushri, Prajnaparamita, and Avalokitesvara:

    kāmarūpāya gandharvva surūpāya surūpite| he mana gā dhirū ḍhāya paramārtha viyoga vijrate aṅi gambhīra dharmmāya
    saṁmukha darśaṇāyaca|

    and in something that perhaps is Dharmadhatvishvari. So to say one is the accomplishing sadhana of it, is a pretty deep grab.

    Sitavati has the only Hiranyagarbha in the book.

    Oh, my.

    The Pancha Raksa series is styled such that it begins with Pramardini--which as a generic word is an "action" of Ugra Tara towards others firstly, then a mantric greeting not long after Smasana Vasini, who juggles the three worlds with Vajra Tara before bringing Pancha Raksa in tow, and then as herself, begins a new subject after the Ten Wrathful Ones.

    She therefor begins a colossal dharani of the Pancha Raksa from p. 368.

    She takes until 384 where it says it is a summary of her Sutra.

    Later, she is an ability of Ekajati:

    namastu diti phaṭkārayantrapramardaṇī |

    Mayuri includes on p. 399 a familiar strand:

    gauriya svāhā || gandharīye svahā || jāṅgurīye svahā ||

    Janguli, personally, receives about two or three lines in this book. Gandhari is restricted to the interior of those two mantras.

    Pratisara is Vipula Garbha:

    2) One of the five peaks near Rajagaha, the highest of them.

    2a) Vipulā (विपुला).—The Goddess enshrined at Vipula.*

    * Matsya-purāṇa 13. 36.

    Quoting Mahamayuri, Garuda resides on Vipula Mountain. The place has been known since at least three historical buddhas. According to legend, it has been a hot springs resort throught the time of Historical Buddhas.

    Vipula Devi mentioned in Devi Bhagavat Purana.

    Venkateswara's two consorts are Sri and Bhu, and some of the aspects of Bhu are:

    Her vastness (VipulA) and possessing inestimable wealth( VasundharA)

    Does Pratisara in Jewel Family have a great deal in similarity to Vasudhara, yes, but she is a bit different in an almost sisterly way like that.

    Venkateswara has special significance to Kubera, and he does treat his consorts a little differently:

    Our AchAryan says that the Lord adorns SrI Devi on His chest and honors Her. He goes one step further in recognizing the greatness of BhUmi Devi by carrying Her on His thousand heads by taking AadhisEsha Roopam.

    So that is a whole legend related to Treasury and Mongoose and Lakshmi Gems and so forth.

    Pratisara looks a lot like Vipula, an aspect of the original Bhu Devi, personally converted by Buddha.

    In the dharani, Pratisara is also, for example, Vajra Jvala Garbha and Gunavati, Nagavilokini, Amrtavacana, Nagara Vidarini, Sarva Tathagata Hrdayadhisithi, Buddhi and Siddhi, and eventually:

    sarvavidyābhiṣekarmahakavacamudrāmuditaiḥ sarvatathāgatahṛdayādhiṣṭhite vaje svāhā || samantajvālā mālā viśuddhi sphuritacintāmaṇi mahāmudra |

    and is Aparajita Hrdaya.

    She proceeds with some of her Amrita mantras similar to Sadhanamala. It is a Mahabala Parakrama. She does an Akasa Vishuddha and becomes:

    bhagavati sūrakṣaṇī sūkṣamesaprabhe |

    then fuses Vimala and Candi.

    Then she is called Savari and Cintamani Mahavidya.

    She has over a dozen pages up to 425.

    Comparatively, there is plainly a savari yogini siddha in the middle of what looks like a large Potalaka Tara article. Parnasavari gets the pun Purna Savari. Mayuri has this aspect, and Pratisara.

    Finally Mantranusarini continues until p.p. 425- 434.

    They are followed by two of the most powerful pieces, Pratyangira and Vijaya Vahini.

    Mantranusarini is almost illegible, although it does refer to Vasudhara. It may be one of the strangest things in existence. The language is basically wrong, words are frequently split in the wrong place, and what could possibly come out of uttering its syllables is unearthly.

    It is almost noise. If anything, her trait is svasti or svastika (su-astika), a benediction of well-being, and a cake offering:

    If among the offering rites you see one with ‘śāntika food,’ use svastika cakes, milk gruel, parched rice, ghee, honey, and milk dishes of barley cooked with milk, and bījapūra (citron): you will assuredly be able to eliminate calamities—of this you should have no doubts

    She does use odd twists for "Karuna" : Buddha Loka Anu Kampaka.

    The last is "wind", i. e. "towards", so "compassion towards", although the actual root is Kamp:

    1) To shake, cause to tremble.

    2) To utter with a thrill or shake.

    She is 3/4 of the kampaka in the book, leaving the position where you could say shaking is woven in to the fabric of karuna as expressed by a...deity of nothing other than mantra, who has done the worst job I have ever seen at describing herself sensibly in any way.

    This is one page that uses, I believe, 563 dharanis, which can be found in a type of structure similar to Vajrasattva confronts a wrathful initiation and the gnosis of bliss, and then there is a flow of deities in organized waves, like three Bodhisattvas in perhaps a different order than Sadhanamala, and so on, considering itself a Maha Purana.

    Probably the only source of dharanis for Bhrkuti, Nairatma, and maybe some others.

    368-434 is a fairly major observance of the Pancha Raksa considering the thing only uses around five hundred of its own pages and so many of the items are small, Ganapati Hrdaya is approximately a page or so.

    The full title of the one following Pancha Raksa is:

    āryā sarvatathāgatoṣṇīṣa śitātapatrenāmāparājitā mahāpratyaṁgirā mahāvipyā rājñī parisamāptaḥ ||

    and then from 461:

    vijayavāhi || 0 || om namo bhagatyaiāryya mahāmāyā vikṣayavāhinye ||

    it appears to include her Sutra in response to Narayana up to p. 471.

    After these, there is only a brief sequence until Vajra Tara, Ten Paramitas, Twenty-one Taras, Mahakala.

    So when you read through it, that perhaps is the climax, Pancha Raksha followed by two of the most powerful dharanis which are at the level of Adi Prajnas, Parasol and Vasudhara, or Kolhapur or Purnagiri or Pulliramalaya Mahalakshmi.

    Parasol is well-known across Asia, and Mahamaya Vijayavahini is only on a few manuscripts from Nepal. We have a study on it with a majority translation based from perhaps a less dharani-ese standalone Sutra version.

    It is possibly unique, many dharanis explained as gifts to Indra or perhaps others, this being the sole appearance of Narayan.

    One identifying Nepalese trait of Dharani Samgraha is that not long after Guhyesvari, Janguli, Vajrayogini, and Ekajati, is that it seems to use Swayambhu Purana followed by the dharanis per day of the week, such as Ganapati Hridaya. The week ends on Grahamatrika (Seven) followed by Rahu and Ketu (Eight and Nine), then Ten Wrathful Ones. That is the pattern which precedes Pancha Raksa. It seems standard for a seven-rayed manifestation plus a three-in-one trinity.

    Nepal has this plus Parasol and Vasudhara dharanis that are highly occult, which correspond to and expand from the next two deities here. The other Adi Prajna, Guhyesvari, is Mamaki who at least outwardly in part is Pratisara. So that whole thing is sort of cued right there.

    It would probably take a while to osmose any of these dharani-based Pancha Raksa, they are galactic.

    The theme of Mahamaya is also with Namasangiti Manjushri, Vajravarahi, Nairatma--Guhyesvari, Bhrikuti as a Kanaka Prabha version, Vijayavahini, Sarasvati, Gauri, and Uma, and as the characteristic of Maha Tejah.

    And so when Pratisara came up as Cintamani, this may seem generically diffuse in the literature, but it is pretty concentrated here.

    The basic Bhrim--Brihaspati--Jupiter Yellow goddesses are Cintamani Tara and Bhrkuti.

    It seems to be "basic" yellow, which more or less should pass into the hands of Mercury--from Puranic Tara's lawful husband to her illegitimate love-child. And so this episode then is echoed by Kurma Avatar and Churning of the Ocean, which produces a new "moon form", when Indra and the devas were weak and restored by Vishnu--Narayan:

    Lord Vishnu then advised them to churn the ocean of milk using Mount Mandara as the churning stick and serpent Vasuki as the rope. But as the churning started, the mountain started sinking. Lord Vishnu took the form of the tortoise or Kurma and kept the mountain afloat. As soon as the bowl of amrita was full, the nectar of immortality was out, along with fourteen treasures.

    These fourteen magnificent treasures were Kalpavriksha, Kamadhenu, Chintamani, Ucchaishrava, Airavata, Panchajanya, Bow of King Saranga, Rambha, Chandra, Varuni, Dhanvantari, Goddess Sri and Halahal. As a result of the churning, the asuras (demons) got hold of the treasure Amrita and became powerful. Past this, Lord Vishnu took the form of Mohini to lure them and made the asuras weak.

    From a Sri Vidya analysis of Rg Veda:

    The three Saraswatis are Matangi, Tara and Vina-Sarasvati. The three are the spouses of Ganesh or Matanga Rishi, Brihaspati the Guru of the Gods or Akshobhya Shiva and Brahmanaspati or Brahma, the Creator. Mantra, Vak or speech itself is Shakti, the Goddess as power.

    Mantra is more the primal forms as Matangi-Saraswathi. Vak or speech is more Tara-Saraswathi. Formalised language or Sanskrit is more Veena-Saraswathi.

    That is from their article about Akshobhya Tara, and now note in
    1008 Names of Vishnu:

    Vajra vaiduryako Vajri Chintamani mahamanih/

    Vasudhara has a Cintamani, Pratisara does, and Lokesvara.

    In Sadhanamala, with Sadaksari Mahavidya, Sita Tara, and White Ekajati.

    So it contains a kind of double mystery about yellow and the necessary vs. unnecessary aspects of Jupiter, and the two "layers" of moon, something like constant vs. changing, and the prcoess of "intake of Soma" into actual Nectar.

    This occult change is in tandem with associating the root, Bhr, with Bharati, whom we have mainly retained in her original aspect related to Bhu. Bharati is:

    Name of a deity (in, [Ṛg-veda] often invoked among the Āprī deities and [especially] together with Ilā and Sarasvatī [according to] to [Nirukta, by Yāska viii, 13] a daughter of Āditya.

    Bharati, in the intent of tantra, is not a basic Bhu Devi you as to ripen your seeds to harvest, but a kind of change and expansion of these life forces.

    Bhr is multi-faceted, and can be to bear/support/nourish like in the basic meaning, or, to fill and expand, similar to Vi or Vishnu on the tantric sense.

    In terms of "Bhima Devi", we can find in Buddhakapala's retinue Green Bhima in the west of the first ring, and Bhimadarsana in the East of the third ring.

    On a slightly different note, we do not have Chapter Eighteen available, I don't think, but Vajradaka Tantra also makes a distinction between "dakinis" and "goddesses", except we cannot see whether the original was devis or what. But in this case, they are the root of a common English word, "Hour", since they are the Horas, which derives from Hod, to go, to proceed. This simultaneously gives a more precise meaning to "Puja" than from the general ocean of ritual possibilities:

    Horā (होरा) refers to the twenty-four astronomical Goddess to be invoked during pūjā (ritual offering) in Tantric Buddhism, according to the 9th-century Vajraḍākatantra chapter 18.61-74. [...] A Yogin, putting a vessel in the left side of him, offers various things together with raw flesh, fish, immortal nectar (pañcāmṛta). Then the Yogin invites Goddesses to please them with nectar—five Ḍākinīs and twenty-four Goddesses come to the Yogin’s place, forming a maṇḍala.

    Names of these twenty-four Goddesses are as follows:

    1. Kṛṣṇā,
    2. Karālī,
    3. Bībhatsā,
    4. Nandātītā,
    5. Vināyakā,
    6. Cāmuṇḍā,
    7. Ghorarūpī,
    8. Umā,
    9. Jayā,
    10. Vijayā,
    11. Ajitā,
    12. Aparājitā
    13. Bhadrakālī,
    14. Mahākālī,
    15. Sthūlakālī,
    16. Indrī,
    17. Candrī,
    18. Ghorī,
    19. Duṣṭī,
    20. Lambakī,
    21. Tridaśeśvarī,
    22. Kambojī,
    23. Dīpinī,
    24. Cūṣiṇī.

    These twenty-four female deities are explained in chapter 24 as those of horā. [...] The text tells that the bring the Yogin success in all rituals or religious actions. Finally the bali offering in accordance with the distinction of the rituals (śānti, puṣṭi and so on) is briefly explained.

    So the Puja is more or less the Nectar Offering, and, in this case, Time deities become involved, suggesting why there might be a group of twenty-four minor Pithas in the body.

    That is a Buddhist clock, of course it has Uma at eight in the morning. In order to even make it there, it has Vinayaki, which the Hindus can barely explain themselves, although it is found at certain sites where perhaps Sri Yantra was crossed with a deification of five senses and elements at an early point in time.

    I do not think this kind of Puja or Bali Offering could have been done without that kind of basis. An outer form, yes, but not the inner one taught in the tantra.
    Last edited by shaberon; 3rd June 2021 at 18:52.

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    Allright. There turned out to be one more related bit.

    I tried to hone in on Dharma Samgraha, and, part of the difficulty with it is that the 563 dharanis are like a run-on sentence. No formatting. After a while, I was able to tell that the long Pratisara article has a "first sadhana" and then a second one, and it may be good to question in what parts a deity "has or is" something, because parts of these spells are hails to other spectators or retinue members. For instance, Pratisara refers to Matr Gana and Maha Matr Gana, so it should be obvious she is talking about two degrees of mothers' circles, and is not, herself, personally, all of that.

    At that point, it is concordant, that is how her Sutra is. The linked article is, I believe, also a thesis which gathers a lot of research on some twenty Pratisara manuscripts. It is described as an originally male noun, amulet, that somehow got deified as a female. Such amulets are found all over the place. And so when you start to look at it as everyone's hobby of amulet-making, you have missed the point entirely.

    Historically, yes, that probably is how "most people" practiced it, but, we are not so interested in that so much as the fact that it is a spoken incantation, a mahavidya, associated with something other than the external world.

    The amulets and/or Dharani Sutra could be accurately described as going around bundled with Lotus Sutra from Gandhara.

    The author believes there was probably a North Indian source of the material, which was expanded and developed its own style in Gandhara. The Sarma transmission then shows evidence of both.

    Because two places both have reasons to be considered Odiyana, one of them being in the northwest, and the other in the southeast, I am still going with "they both could be" and I think they might not be different "styles" so much as tantric Smoke and Sun.

    Admitting I am somewhat innocent of Lotus Sutra and most of the Gandharan transmission--I only heard of this relatively recently when trying to figure out Gauris and Pisacis--I don't know what might be the difference in the nitpicking finesse with which an actual translator handles recensions. However, it turns out he decided to show a Gandharan text for comparison, and, overall, it is much more like real language or standard Sanskrit than our dharani manuscript. Without any nitpicking, it is possible that the second chapter is identical to our version, if not, there are only minor differences you would have to scan for.

    The first chapter is not the same at all.

    It is written much more neatly, but, the manuscript is not pristine, and there is an average of one syllable per line left missing or blank.

    I am going to try to clean it up manually, and, what is actually astounding here is that we are going to find something tantricly-specific where it should not be, right off the page:

    [13] man.icud.a ca svarn.ake´sı pingala cama {...} nı ekajat.a ca maharaks.ası |

    tatha buddha {...} vara |

    tatha lanke´svarı dhanyaanye 'pi bahu {...} raks.anti yasyeyam. mahavidya hastagata {...} [ka]´s caiva ´sa˙nkhinı kut.adantı (ca)´srıya devı ca sa {...} baddha raks.arthepratisaradharan.asya nityam. ya dharaya {...} bala |

    Ekajati on the first line is not necessarily too surprising, since this is an outer practice of Hevajra Tantra.

    So, hang on.

    There is such a thing as Lankesvari whom we found seated at Devikota in the Eyes, along with Vajragarbha, who is pretty much the tantric alphabet guy.

    Was she idle chatter, no, it turns out she has a pitha that is a flat rock bed in the Maha Nadi River.

    Is she an original Sambalpur goddess, probably.

    There are attempts to identify her with something alternately spelled Samlei, Samalei, and Sitalei.

    According to an Indian temple study:

    ...in front of the Garbha-griha of Samalei Gudi (temple), there is a pillared hall wherein a pair of human foot prints with two eight-petalled lotus-rosette motifs on both sides is engraved on a stone panel. This pair of footprints is worshipped as Sitala-mata.

    ...availability of footprints in crude form at Rampad on the riverbed near Sambalesvari temple carries significance to a great extent. For that reason, Samalei Pitha had Buddhist connection. In other words, Sambalpur had made Tantrik Buddhism a potent spiritual power and effective cultural force in the Indian sub-continent. In view of this, Sambalpur might be recognized as one of the important urban centers with intercontinental reputation in between the second and eighth century A.D. it seems that, Tantrik Buddhism continued to triumph in Sambalpur till about 13th century A.D. long after Buddhism had vanished from many parts of India.

    Reportedly, Laksminkara had married Sevole, the son of the king Jalendra of Lanka / Lankapuri. But, Laksminkara preferred the career of a Tantrik Buddhist perfectionist and practiced Tantra Sadhana in Lankapuri which was regarded as Mahayogapitha or a great centre of Tantrik Buddhist Yoga. Continuous meditation and Tantra Sadhana for seven years in the cemetery of Lankapuri Mahayogapitha made her properly enlightened and she distinguished herself among the people of India and abroad as Bhagavati Laksminkara or Goddess Laksminkara because of her Uttama Siddhi or excellent attainment. Lanka or Lankapuri is identified with modern Sonepur or Subarnapur (Mishra, 2003:87-88). Lankesvari, therefore, may be recognized as Laksminkara as the former nomenclature appears to be a corruption of the latter. A legend also ascribes Goddess Samalei to Lankesvari. Furthermore, Chaurasi Samalei are important deities of the Keutas, the fishermen caste of Bolangir (Senapati and Sahu, 1968:107). This notion of Chaurasi (84) Samalei prevalent among the Keutas (fishermen) of west Odisha very probably refers to 84 Siddha-Gurus in Tantrik Buddhism. In view of this, Goddess Laksminkara may reasonably be identified with Laksminkara i.e. Samalei or Samalesvari who has been worshipped by the local people in Sambalpur.

    So says a non-Buddhist, but, then, we would have to say the recognition of Lankesvari in Buddhism probably predates the Gilgit manuscripts considerably. From her point, Laksminkara could certainly be considered a "branch" or "stream" of it, but, as the original, not hardly.

    A great deal of tantric origin also seems to be in the hill country between Orissa and Bihar.

    According to Orissan history research:

    The Buddhist incorporated autochthonous elements as is known from the description of the Buddhist goddess Parnasabari, who has been described in the Buddhist texts as Sarva śavarānām bhagavatí (the goddess of all savaras (Getty 1978, 134)).

    In this manner, Buddhism became a sect of mass lay followers, in competition with the more institutionally-favored Hindus.

    According to some 2005 new facts:

    Goddess Samlei of Sambalpur and goddess Subhadra of Sri Jagannath temple at Puri are worshipped in the same Bhuvanesvari
    mantra by the priests. There might be some similarities between both the goddesses. Lankesvari is called Vindhyavasini Durga also. In the Kaumudi Mahotsava, we find the mention of Ekanga (Ekanamsa) as the tribal goddess of the Yadavas. Here the goddess is depicted in her dual capacity as Vindhyavasini Durga and the tribal deity of the Yadavas.

    Well, we just mainly defined the Sabaris we have in mind as Vindhya Vasinis. Parnasabari is the top-ranked one, and Janguli, Mayuri, and Pratisara have this aspect. Those are equal to Lankesvari who is not from there. One could perhaps say that Durga is the thing subject to amalgamation or acceptance of other goddesses, or, it may be more correct that Matangi is the most anciently-known name that is in such a spiritual practice.

    According to Architecture of Bhubhaneswar, there is a temple of:

    Vaital (Lankesvari)

    Well, there is almost nothing to do with that spelling except acknowledge it as Vetali. I don't know where they got it. They live there.

    According to a brief wiki of the temple:

    Goddess Lankeswari or Nikumbhilaa was the presiding deity of Paschima Lanka.

    Does that also tell us something, it certainly does:

    Nikumbhilā (निकुम्भिला).—A particular spot in the forest outside Laṅkāpurī. (Uttara Rāmāyaṇa).

    Nikumbhilā (निकुम्भिला).—

    1) A cave or grove at the western gate of Laṅkā.

    2) An image of Bhadrakālī on the west side of Laṅkā.

    Is there a Ramayana theme here, something about Hanuman getting Sita out of Lanka, yes, there is something to that.

    Those are non-Buddhist, um, unbiased researchers telling us why Lankesvari might be in the beginning of a Pratisara sadhana five hundred or a thousand miles or something from her origin point, ages prior to Laksminkara.

    Bhadrakali is like a type of Durga or Pratyangira, it is probably appropriate to call it an instance of her.

    I have no idea if the person composing the thesis has any awareness of the significance of this "alternate" beginning in an older manuscript from farther away. This has to do with the Eyes Pitha and therefor Sight Gauri.

    This is the remainder of the Gandharan Pratisara opening. I do not see any more names, which suggests that this comes from, or is due to the prescence or grace of Lankesvari:

    sarvasiddhe sada tasya putragar(bho) su {...} [dha]tte sukha suyati gurvin.ısarvavyadhisu(a) {...} h.pun.yavan balavan nityam. dhanadhanyapravardhanam. {...} deyavacanata nityam. pujanıyam. bhavis.yati |

    {...} [pu]rus.o 'pi vasa nityam. sarvasatvanam. moks.an.artha {...} tya sarva[vya]dhivivarji(ta)rajano va´saga tasya sa {...}
    [ks.mya] pun.yara´se vivardhate |

    siddhyantu sarvakalpani pravi {...} mayajña´s ca bhavis.yati jinoktam. vacanam. yathaduh. {...} papaharam. param.kil(bi)s.a caiva na´syanti pratyami {...} ´sartham. bhas.ita jñanamahe´svaraih. sarvakama {...} (sya) nitya´sah.tad idanı sam. pravaks.yami bhutasam. gha ´sr.n.otha {...}

    It is about as specific as Pratisara's epithet Vilokini. And so for example in PR 206 we found she has or is Amrita Vilokini. The dharani continues this and adds Naga Vilokini. All are practically unique names.

    It has one resonance which is Padmanarttesvara. Curiously, he has another which sounds common but is practically unique, Bhurini, one of the closest matches being Pratisara who has or is Bhuri.

    Bhattacharya describes his lotus seat as supporting something to think about geometrically. Pratisara's names make a white-yellow axis; Tara's names make a green-white axis; then in the minor ring, there is another yellow-white one followed by a Sky-Variegated:

    On the East petal there is Vilokinī, white in colour and carrying the red lotus.
    The South is occupied by Tārā of green colour, holding the Palāśa and the lotus flowers.
    Bhūriṇī is in the West, is yellow in complexion and carries the Cakra and the blue lotus.
    Bhṛkuṭī is in the North, with white colour holding the yellow lotus.
    In the North-East there is Padmavāsinī, who is yellow in colour and holds the red lotus.
    The South-East is occupied by Viśvapadmeśvarī, who is sky-coloured and holds the white lotus.
    The South-West is occupied by Viśvapadmā, who is white and carries the the black lotus.
    In the Norh-West there is Viśvavajrā of variegated colour holding the double lotus.

    That is a pretty clear foreshadowing of Dombi of Hevajra Tantra.

    The thing he is referring to says they are Saumyas. Here it is with the addition of a mantra which is fairly simple:

    tataḥ oṃ kāyavākcittavajrasvabhāvātmako 'haṃ iti mantram uccārayet / tad anv aṣṭasu dikṣu aṣṭadevīṃ cintayet / tatrāṣṭadalaraktapadmapūrvapatre vilokinī śuklā raktapadmadharā; dakṣiṇapatre tārā haritā palāśapadmadharā; paścimadale bhūriṇī pītā cakranīlotpaladharā; uttaradale bhṛkuṭī śuklā pītapadmadharā; pūrvakoṇadale padmavāsinī pītā māñjiṣṭha-
    padmadharā; dakṣiṇakoṇadale vajrapadmeśvarī ākāśavarṇā sitapadmadharā; paścimakoṇadale viśvapadmā śuklā kṛṣṇapadmadharā; uttarakoṇadale viśvavajrā viśvavarṇā viśvapadmadharā /

    No, Pratisara has nothing ostensibly to do with Lotus Family, but, there are yellow and white Pratisaras, similar to Bhrkuti.

    Then back to Dharani Samgraha, we found additionally that Siddha of Sabari Yoginis is within what looks like a Sragdhara or probably Lotus Famly Green Tara article which was fairly large.

    Siddha Sabara was guided by and through Avalokiteshvara--Karuna to the Sabaris.

    Unaware of Vindhya names and never pressed the issue, it means Mahamaya, Sister of Krishna.

    According to a regional visitor, it is not far from Varanasi towards Allahabad:

    It is also said that while in most Shakti Peethas, the body parts of Sati had fallen. At Vindhya, she herself dwells on the hills.

    There are such ancient devi stone murtis that their features are nearly unidentifiable and you are not allowed to photograph them. She is also called Kajala, and has a temple in Pokhara, Nepal.

    That one is related to Lankesvari, who appears to be related to Pratisara, whereas Parnasabari is different.

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    I see that the OP's "break" now shows Unsubscribed, which is unfortunate.

    In that case, I will just index parts of it from my own thread. This has a lot in it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Shaberon, I wonder if you have an independent blog.

    The other thing I wonder about is whether Old Student happened to be an emanation of your advanced subtle self yearning to deliver message to “simple humans” ?

    What do you gather, are we capable of solving the whole paradigm of finding our true counterparts in this lifetime and thus complete the grounds and path of the King of tantras ?

    Is there anything remaining to be said ..

    by the Goddess of Learning ?

    Sarvartha Namastu


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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Okay, final collapsing instruction to your projects :

    log in to the galactic internet using your fingertips
    tap into letters, symbols or images swirling around
    whenever you wish to convey a message


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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Shaberon, I wonder if you have an independent blog.

    No, I thought about that, but, whatever comes from this, it was certainly available for public scrutiny. Nothing is really mine except the attempt to thread/organize a few hundreds or thousands of things.

    Quote The other thing I wonder about is whether Old Student happened to be an emanation of your advanced subtle self yearning to deliver message to “simple humans” ?

    Only in the sense that there are not separate selves.

    His question and/or message has been one of experience, which is, I think, rather more difficult. Most of us cannot access minute internal deities in expansive detail, whereas his just started happening. In a certain sense, it was way beyond what the Siddhas themselves said or did. What surprised me is that the skeleton or framework still does, to a fair degree, accurately represent the or an intended timeline of tantric Buddhism.

    What I have personally experienced is Suksma or Subtle Yoga of the Four and Eight Joys, although more from a Nath or Laya Yoga perspective, and what I see in Buddhism is a lot more wisdom and protective power welded onto the process. So I am in the position to say that Suksma Yoga is 100% real, without, for example, having deities such as Locana revealed to me.

    I think I am weak or a late-starter in areas where he is more proficient, and vice-versa, which we discovered specifically in Vajra Rosary, which deals with a path of Bliss as well as of Death and fuses them. So the different emphases are working to a common goal.

    Quote What do you gather, are we capable of solving the whole paradigm of finding our true counterparts in this lifetime and thus complete the grounds and path of the King of tantras ?
    As a devotee of Ekayana, I would have to say so.

    As a practical matter, I would say it is highly unlikely. I will be happy if I can ever convince myself that I have attained the very first Bhumi. As a non-believer in "this world", I lean more towards the teaching of "seven more births", i. e. one is going to increase in Bodhisattva power, and dying and taking rebirth consciously is part of that.

    As "one more birth" or Ekajata, realistically, I believe that applies to only a few, the Tenth Stage Bodhisattvas, which it would be impossible to be, without a major awareness of many births and the similar activities of many spiritual friends.

    Karma is difficult, if I could live in retreat, I could probably accomplish a lot of that stuff and never post anything online, but now is not the time to live in retreat. To the opposite, I would kind of say I have been "pressed" onto the internet, and while I don't like that, I do like the fact that many genuine texts can be found.

    Quote Is there anything remaining to be said ..

    by the Goddess of Learning ?


    This thread got so big I could not remember or track the stuff anymore.

    That is why I am going to compose an index page for it.

    At some point, I would want to be able to "new thread" it so it would be, kind of, like its own website or forum, except it will just link you to post 459 or whatever within itself.

    We just don't know where it starts.

    Towards the end, Old Student was digging at the most archaic forms of, not necessarily Buddhist, Shaktism.

    Well, as far as a written form, we can say Mahamayuri Vidyarajni Sutra existed since at least the time of Kumarajiva, ca. year 400. It is interesting in many ways, but, it has a section where each of the Seven Historical Buddhas say their Mahamayuri Vidyarajnis. The very first one, Vispasin, says:

    Parna Savare

    Because there is external evidence showing her as important enough to be offered gold since at least ca. 300, then we can say Parnasabari appears to be a type of shakti of "non-Buddhist origin" with some of the perhaps oldest specific evidence that she is a yogini.

    Bhima Devi is also a possibility, having an elaborate explanation, however as far as I know, she is only a retinue member in Buddhist tantra, not a principal. Parnasabari is an occult Bhaisajya or Medicine Guru.

    I am not sure if the starting point of the thread would be the oldest goddess, or what the Namasangiti and Dharani systems are, or the point of Nirakara and Shentong philosophy, or how Secret Doctrine or Rahasya is a very rare title in Buddhism, such as Dakini Jala Rahasya, which itself perhaps is the subject. I am not sure, because there are so many subtle points being made, but it would be that kind of "table of contents" that would describe why, for instance, there is a type of pattern to 84,000 scriptures, and how these points land it in a large but smaller number of things.

    As a style of activity, study of the texts and so forth is Upacara, a subjective precursor for Sadhana or spiritual practice. Furthermore, since the entire Dharmadhatu Vagisvara Manjughosha mandala is gated by the Pratisamvits, i. e. conventional forms of knowledge such as analysis, then you could say it remains valid for something that is considered non-dual highest yoga tantra, and there is one more practice which is like this, Vajra Tara. Both of those are accepted as having within themselves the full capability of Kalachakra or any of the more famous tantras.

    To me, it is mostly about the mantras, seed syllables, dharanis, sonic, can be placid or can be musical, etc.

    Ganapati Hrdaya has affected me significantly just from doing it on Tuesdays.

    To all appearances, that Buddhism that is barely distinguishable from Shaktism in Orissa was fully intended and functioned as the distribution of the Path into the hands of lay people, which is why although this may seem to have an academic edge, that is only the Upacara, because it is intended to incorporate with music or sabari nature and so forth, such as all the lower castes.

    The trouble is, I only know all of the subjects, like a sphere. I think it probably ends, or runs out of anything new, with Taranatha, although later personages such as Jamgon Kongtrul made very important commentaries. It begins mostly the same as Agni Yoga. Or, maybe it begins with Manjushri at Pattan, or Dipamkara Buddha? Perhaps the thesis is that of Ratnakarasanti, or Samdhinirmocana Sutra or Queen Srimala Devi.

    Legend or word of mouth or personal testimony is accepted as a valid means of knowledge.

    Mahamayuri's dharani, translated into Chinese by Kumārajīva, is considered to predate Mahayana Buddhism. It contains the only mention of the Rig Veda in the entire Chinese Buddhist canon.

    The Kumarajiva version says Bhima or Bhishana has the consort Shivabhadra. This is with respect to a Bhimakali temple in the Sutlej valley of Kinnaur, Himachal Pradesh. Chinese pilgrims attest the cult of Bhima in Gandahar, and at the Brahmagiri mountain in Kosala where Nagarjuna stayed. Further detail says he stayed in Kosala, and then went to Brahmagiri near Amaravati.

    In our Amoghavajra translation, it says the yaksha Shivabhadra resides in Bhisana, a location, which is used as a Cemetery in Dakarnava Tantra, or, mainly, is otherwise a male Red Bhairava from Rudrayamala Tantra.

    The first evidence of Buddhism in Kinnaur is a ca. year 100 penalty for bikkhus having sex with Kinnari women.

    The male name Shivabhadra does not really match anything except a type of text which is "further details" after a Saivite deity installation tantra which says:

    According to the pratisaṃhitā theory of Āgama origin and relationship (sambandha), it was Sadāśiva who first imparted the Candrajñānāgama through parasambandha to Ananta, who then imparted it through mahānsambandha to Bṛhaspati who then, through divya-sambandha, transmitted it to the Devas who, through divyādivya-sambandha, transmitted it to the Ṛṣis who finally, through adivya-sambandha, revealed the Candrajñānāgama to human beings (Manuṣya).

    Mahamayuri discovered in China in 2010:

    Bhima Devi appears to have been carved in turquoise when found by the Chinese in the 600s.

    In Devi Mahatmya, ca. 400-600, during Vaivasvata Manvantara or effective lifespan of our planet, Devi's first incarnation is as Vindhya Vasini; relatively soon, she becomes Shakambari or vegetables, and then she lives on Himavat as Bhima, before her last example, she becomes a swarm of bees (Brahmari).

    Devi Bhagavata Purana is considered to have begun its...compilation...somewhat after Devi Mahatmya, but, compare to the more widely-known Srimad Bhagavata, despite not wanting to argue about it, the translator says:

    This translation has been inscribed to the sacred memory of my friend the late Rāi Bāhādur Śrīś Candra Vidyārṇava who induced me to undertake the translation of this work. He had thoroughly read the two Bhāgavatas and it was his opinion that the priority of composition belonged to the Devī Bhāgavatam. The other Bhāgavat, according to him, is a modern compilation attributed to Bopadeva – the author of Mugdhabodha Vyākaraṇam.

    Although Bhima is later repeated as a place with a yogini, she comes from a rather exalted position within a response to the Himalayas about the sacred places of Devi, which more accurately begins with what we call Kolhapur Mahalakshmi:

    There is a great place of pilgrimage named Kolhāpura in the southern country. Here the Devī Lakṣmi always dwells. The second place is Mātripura in the Sahyādrī mountain; here the Devī Reṇukā dwells. The third place is Tulajāpur; next is the place Saptaśriṅga, the great places of Hingulā and Jvālā Mukhī. Then the great places of Sākambharī, Bhrāmāri, Śrīraktadantikā and Dūrgā. The best of all places is that of Vindhyācala Vāsinī, the great places of Annapurnā and the excellent Kāñcipur (Conjiverum). Next come the places of Bhīmā Devī, Vimalā Devī, Śrī Caṇdralā Devī of Karṇāṭ, and the place of Kauśikī. Then the great place of Nīlāmbā on the top of the Nīlāparvata, the place of Jāmbūnadeśvarī, and the beautiful Śrīnagara.

    11-20. The great place of Śrī Guhya Kālī, well established in Nepal, and that of Śrī Mīnākṣī Devī established in Cīdamvaram. The great place named Vedāraṇya where the Sundarī Devī is residing...

    Here again, the whole thing is 18,000 verses, and a summary of the contents alone is lengthy to read.

    That I suppose is the Shakta view of Bhima, but other things make it plain she was not written up and distributed from this; was probably a northern equivalent where there was no Parnasabari.

    If Bhima was the first subject, that would give us Buddhakapala Tantra. The closest example of her possibly direct use is within the dharani of Vajragandhari.
    Last edited by shaberon; 12th June 2021 at 07:28.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    On the same subject as just discussed, I, personally, came to a different conclusion because Old Student's interest seemed to be more along the lines of "autochthonous elements" or, so to speak, tribal experiences of shakti which may have inspired scriptures, rather than coming from them. And so in that vein, it looks like some of the earliest available evidence is gold and sex with Parnasabari and Bhima.

    We kind of overlook most scripture since, historically, it has been mostly male-based, and drawn out by cults such as in the Vedic period disputes between Indra and Varuna, and later between Vishnu and Shiva, and so the presence of Mayuri or Ushas in the Rg Veda is "inconclusive".

    My answer for Devi comes from such a male-based scripture, and so it doesn't really "count" in the same way as tribal goddesses.

    Firstly though I found an equivalent in another one, the Mahabharata. And we found a bit of confusion about the Ocean Mare and what the Terrible Fire is. This epic is believed to have been written around the beginning of the common era; as a scripture, Mahabharata is said to have thousands of handwritten editions, none of which are identical.

    And so this is in pre-material creation, and, the Terrible Fire itself has an origin:

    that terrible water-drinking sea fire called Vadava is the fifth son of Vrihaspati. This Brahmic fire has a tendency to move upwards and hence it is called Urdhvabhag, and is seated in the vital air called Prana.

    It is a flash frame. They just gave a meaning with respect to yoga practice in a human body while talking about how fire blazed on Jupiter.

    And so we know it destroys the world, however, it first begins the world in the hands of a five color flame, of whom only four are given:

    ...when the invocation was made with the vyahriti hymns and with the aid of the five sacred fires, Kasyapa, Vasistha, Prana, the son of Prana, Chyavana, the son of Angiras, and Suvarchaka—there arose a very bright energy (force) full of the animating (creative) principle, and of five different colours. Its head was of the colour of the blazing fire, its arms were bright like the sun and its skin and eyes were golden-coloured and its feet, O Bharata, were black. Its five colours were given to it by those five men by reason of their great penance. This celestial being is therefore described as appertaining to five men, and he is the progenitor of five tribes. After having performed a penance for ten thousand years, that being of great ascetic merit produced the terrible fire appertaining to the Pitris (manes) in order to begin the work of creation, and from his head and mouth respectively he created Vrihat and Rathantara (day and night) who quickly steal away (life, &c.). He also created Siva from his navel, Indra...

    You have to read a few more creations until "it" has a name, Tapa.

    Tapa (तप).—A Deva of fire-like splendour. Born of the power of penance of five sages named Kaśyapa, Vasiṣṭha, Prāṇaka, Cyavana and Trivarcas, this Deva has got a name Pāñcajanya (born of five) also. He did severe penance (tapas) and got the name Tapa. His head is like fire, his hands like Sun, his skin and eyes are of golden hue and his waist, blue. (Śloka 4, Chapter 220, Vana Parva).

    Same as the Sixth, or Buddhic, Plane of Varuna:

    1i) (also Tapoloka) a celestial world,1 forming the forehead of Virāṭpuruṣa; the sixth loka, the residence of Ṛbhu, Sanatkumāra and others, originators of Manvantaras; each of them resides conjointly with yoga, tapa and satya; four crores of yojanas above Janaloka; the residence of the celestial Vairājas; above it, the Satyaloka or Brahmaloka.2

    1) Bhāgavata-purāṇa II. 1. 28; VIII. 20. 34; XI. 24. 14; Matsya-purāṇa 61. 1; 184. 23.
    2) Vāyu-purāṇa 101. 17, 37, 211; 101. 208; Viṣṇu-purāṇa II. 7. 14-15.

    1k) The essence milked by Bṛhaspati from cow-earth in the vessel of the Veda; practised by Yayātī; greater than sacrifices.1 Fasting and restraint lead to vairāgya; other features are celibacy, prayer and silence.2

    1) Matsya-purāṇa 10. 17; 35. 15-17; 143. 33-40; Vāyu-purāṇa 57. 121-5.
    2) Vā 57. 116-17; 59. 41.

    Now. If we see this...unusual male Agni, then, without me being able to show this is directly connected with any forest maiden dance, but, could have just been slipped into Yajur Veda for someone to read and study, the important literary evidence to me is that Vairocani originates from Taittirīya Āraṇyaka 10 verse (ascribed with a terminus ad quem of 3rd century BCE), which hails Durgā as follows:

    “tām agnivarṇām tapasā jvalantīm vairocinīm karmaphaleṣu
    juṣṭām, durgāṃ devīṃ śaraṇam ahaṃ prapadye sutarasi tarase namaḥ,”

    which Coburn translates:

    “In her who has the color of Agni, flaming with ascetic power (tapas), the offspring of
    Virocana (vairocani) who delights in the fruits of one’s actions. In the goddess Durgā do I take
    refuge; O one of great speed, (well) do you navigate. Hail (to you)!”

    This verse is duplicated verbatim in Ṛg Vedic Khila, Rātrī Sūkta (4.2.13). (From Mother of Power, Mother of Kings)

    It is not necessarily "offspring of Vairocana": Vairocani means the daughter of sun or fire. And again, different people may try to put it to English different ways, such as:

    Wife of Rudra, Ambika--Durga is of the colour of fire, luminous owing to austerities; Vairocani who is worshipped for reaping the fruits of human deeds.

    Justam (worship, delight) has related meanings as above and is also Ucchista.

    This was recorded ca. 300 B. C., and although there may be some older Puranas, most of the older Puranas such as Vayu appear after the year 300.

    Tattiriya Aranyaka chapter ten is actually Mahanarayana Upanisad.

    This is Durga Suktam.

    There is a Sanskrit Mahanarayana Upanisad where you may need to select Roman script and it is "durgaa sooktam"; or, here is that section with a translation and commentary.

    According to Kamakoti, the main point of the Aranyaka is what Buddha called an Inner Homa:

    An important highlight of this Script is the „Manasika
    Yagjna‟ which has ready applicability to the present generation; one may not be able to execute Agni
    Karyas or even time for Introspection with- standing the harsh winds of materialism and family

    So, it is about the inner meaning of yoga, not necessarily an actual temple. Its title has its own origin story:

    The haughty guru disliked the audacity of
    Yagnavalkya and commanded the latter to cough up and vomit what all he taught so far. Yagnyavalkya
    had to so so while the co students assumed the form of Tittiri‟ birds or pigeons, hence the origin of
    Tittiriya Krishna Yajur Veda as the food that was vomitted.
    The disillusioned pupil Yagnavalkya decided not to take up a human Guru and prayed to Surya Deva to
    accept him as his Guru. Pleased by Yagnavalkya‟s penance, Surya descended in the form of a horse and
    disclosed a new form of Veda immortalised as Shukla Yajurveda or Vayajasaneya („Vaji‟ being a horse)
    from his manes, as distinguished from Krishna Yajur Veda, not known to Vaishampayana too; the Shukla
    Yajur has the rhythm of a horse gallop! Surya directed Yagnavalkya to worship Saraswati to improve

    HPB said that Yajnawalkya was the "world's preparation" for Buddha; and he was influential to King Janaka Vaideha and Sita, and what he also teaches in Bhrihadaranyaka Upanishad about Horse Sacrifice also being symbolic becomes almost identical to the Buddhist Namasangiti and Six Mantra Kings. There is another Aranyaka, or, Forest Literature, and, here, a tiny little slice of it is what we are dealing with. HPB says it is the root of Yogacara.

    So the origin of Vairocani having meaning as inner yoga is simple, it is just Durga's Song.

    And so although it is evident in line two that the intended name is Durga Devi, but, because we are not stuck with just the first analysis we encounter, the point is the epithet Vairocani:

    tāmagnivarṇāṁ tapasā jvalantīṁ vairocanīṁ karmaphaleṣu juṣṭām .
    durgāṁ devīɱ śaraṇamahaṁ prapadye sutarasi tarase namaḥ

    The reason we are not limited to just a first translation is because we are looking at Vairocani in the Buddhist Samvarodaya Tantra. It is not the "first" Samvara, which is Dakini Jala, it means Source of Chakrasamvara. Part of the significance here is that we were looking at ways to under-study Chakrasamvara without dealing with Vajravarahi. And so the Samvarodaya works slightly differently, in its Armor Deities, it replaces Vajravarahi with Vajravairocani, whose consort is Vajrasattva, in the Navel. Now we can under-study something that is a current song as well as the earliest written evidence I can find of this specific subject.

    Now, of course, the main reason this point would be swept under the rug is because the Upanishad text as a whole is still based on male Narayana and so it is Vaisnavite. It is not necessarily too sectarian, because, according to Wiki:

    The Upanishad, despite its title which means "Great Narayana", is notable for glorifying both Narayana and Rudra (Shiva), both as the first equivalent embodiment of Brahman, the concept of ultimate, impersonal and transcendental reality in Hinduism.

    If you just look at that page, it unmistakably highlights Tapas.

    According to a discussion, its important practice is Nyasa.

    And so if we look for example at the Greenmessage translation of that line:

    To Her, Who is of the colour of Fire (Agni Varna) and blazing with Tapas (Tapasa Jwalantim); Who was born of that Fire (of Tapas) (Vairochinim), and Who is worshipped through Fruits of Actions (Karma Phalas) (offered to Her Fire as oblations)

    then she has an identity of Tapas.

    "energy belonging to the Absolute in its various manifestations" actually all comes out of her name according to some.

    Yet another version says "you are born of the fire of tapas (vairocani), the fruits of all actions belong to you".

    It is probably also the first recorded mention of Katyayani (Kanyakumari). The corresponding Upanishad makes the goddess weave with Agni and, she becomes a specific power of fire with its own set of rays she is the sum total of.

    Vairocani is not said to be the whole or entire Durga, but is the crucial part for Yoga, arising from Tapas.

    So the Buddhist tantras have nothing to say on her origin, she suddenly is just there if you were to follow Cinnamasta or Chakrasamvara. And you do not have to go far before she becomes the Solar Nerve of the Three Channels.

    It is however correct that she may be greeted as a Yoga Deity. She will come in the class of Yellow Vajrayogini. What is a bit unusual is that if you pursue her, then you go out naked on a hilltop and the two of you face each other in Kurma or Tortoise Pose and you ask her to be your wife. Here again I am not sure if there is anything else that does this. That part is not, necessarily, necessary, but, she personally evolutes Vajravarahi, Cinnamasta, and Chakrasamvara.

    And so after hammering out her inner meaning--that she must not be any kind of outer deity, but, is an expansion of inner heat and light--traced back to her origin, where she is not called all forms of fire, but it is quite close to all forms of light produced by tapas; or, a particularly strong one, blazing.

    She is not a beginning yoga practice, she is a stage, or state, the Candali or Tummo, or Pandara. Yeshe Tsogyal could not get her after years on a mountain.

    The beginning, or the way to conjure oneself into this state, Varuni is the one taste of all tantras since Vairocani resides in her. That is what it says in Samvarodaya, and, the central male Heruka is hunting this Vairocani. Varuni is consistent with the practice of tapas, japa, etc., in the body of which is its illumination, Vairocani. If we follow the Armor Deities, it goes from tapas illumination Vairocani to Smoky samadhi Candika. So, until you actually have Tapas, it is not the real thing, although it is an underlying pattern of Six Families, which is Dakini Jala.

    Well, we were just talking about solar and smoky Odiyanas and so on, same pattern.

    And so I hope what is becoming apparent is "hypostasized" or, i. e. the one thing containing another or leading to it. As a basic way of arranging this to the more-famous male yoga deities, I would tend to say Vishnu is any consciousness, is all consciousness. Shiva however is only a fine thread in the most exalted samadhi. It does not matter that much to me if he is transcendent and perfected on his own plane. What is important is to "use" Vishnu to enter and achieve samadhi and at that time, in that reality, the two gods are equivalent.

    So, ok. If Mahanarayana Upanisad makes a hypostasis of Vishnu and Shiva, here is Bhima in Adbhuta Ramayana:

    You are Virupa (i.e., you have unconventional, distorted, terrifying
    and ugly features— see also verse nos. 54, 66 and 76) on the one
    hand, and on the other you are Surupa (i.e., one who is pleasant,
    charming and endearing to look at— see verse no. 39 also). You
    are Bhima (the divine consort of both Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu,
    i.e., Goddess Parvati and Laxmi respectively).

    Bhima is "terrible", is she a Terrible Fire? I am not sure, but, this Adbhuta Ramayana is within the doctrine that Mahalakshmi is the chieftess who emanates the trinity, Mahakali, Mahalakshmi, and Mahasarasvati, and places Devi as containing and awakening the male deity.

    Bhima is the dual consort of what has also been explained to be one and the same deity.

    In the Durga texts themselves, which are nowhere near as old as this, Bhima is said to be an early, sixth or so, manifestation of Devi, and, historically, has a very old practice, although we cannot say much about it.

    We can say Durga Suktam is a tiny gem hidden in ancient Aranyaka Forest Yoga, and, it asks her to fill me with Bliss so I may know her presence internally, it uses a verb form of Tara, and several of the same expressions as in Buddhist litanies, in fact it takes Refuge in her.

    Varuni is Soma drinking, which would still make sense here as it is in the first line.

    This is non-Buddhist and had been available for about a thousand years before Samvarodaya Tantra was composed, so, the possibilities of what may have happened with anyone who may have taken it seriously are hard to limit. I do not see contradictions between this song and Buddha Dharma, in fact, it has several of the same supports.

    I posted it near the beginning of this thread, but, it would be good to listen to it again.

    Greenmessage translation:

    जातवेदसे सुनवाम सोममरातीयतो निदहाति वेदः ।
    स नः पर्षदति दुर्गाणि विश्वा नावेव सिन्धुं दुरितात्यग्निः ॥१॥
    Jaatavedase Sunavaama Somam-Araatiiyato Nidahaati Vedah |
    Sa Nah Parssad-Ati Durgaanni Vishvaa Naave[a-I]va Sindhum Durita-Aty[i]-Agnih ||1||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    1.1: To that Jataveda (one from whom the Vedas are born) we press out the Soma (i.e. Invoke Her ardently); (We invoke that Jataveda) Who consumes by Her Fire of Knowledge (Veda) all the Adversities (within and without) (And frees us from the bondage of the world),
    1.2: May that Agni (Fire of Durga) carry us over this Ocean of the World which is full of Great Difficulties and beset with great Perils; like a Boat (carrying one over a very rough Sea),

    तामग्निवर्णां तपसा ज्वलन्तीं वैरोचनीं कर्मफलेषु जुष्टाम् ।
    दुर्गां देवीँशरणमहं प्रपद्ये सुतरसि तरसे नमः ॥२॥
    Taam-Agni-Varnnaam Tapasaa Jvalantiim Vairocaniim Karma-Phalessu Jussttaam |
    Durgaam Devii[ngu]m-Sharannam-Aham Prapadye Su-Tarasi Tarase Namah ||2||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    2.1: To Her, Who is of the colour of Fire (Agni Varna) and blazing with Tapas (Tapasa Jwalantim); Who was born of that Fire (of Tapas) (Vairochinim), and Who is worshipped through Fruits of Actions (Karma Phalas) (offered to Her Fire as oblations),
    2.2: To that Durga, to that Devi, I take Refuge (Sharanam Aham) by falling at Her Feet (Prapadye); (O Mother Durga, I Prostrate before You) Please ferry me mercifully (over this Ocean of the World full of great Difficulties and Perils),

    अग्ने त्वं पारया नव्यो अस्मान् स्वस्तिभिरति दुर्गाणि विश्वा ।
    पूश्च पृथ्वी बहुला न उर्वी भवा तोकाय तनयाय शंयोः ॥३॥
    Agne Tvam Paarayaa Navyo Asmaan Svastibhir-Ati Durgaanni Vishvaa |
    Puush-Ca Prthvii Bahulaa Na Urvii Bhavaa Tokaaya Tanayaaya Shamyoh ||3||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    3.1: O Agni (Fire of Durga), You Who are eulogized (for carrying one across this Samsara); Please ferry us (too), by carrying us (i.e. our Souls) over Your Auspicious Nature, and make us cross this World full of Great Difficulties (Samsara), ...
    3.2: ... (and also spread Your Auspicious Nature over the) Land and Earth, (so that the Earth) becomes abundantly Fertile and Green (and we feel Your presence in external Nature); And fill us, (We who are) Your Children with Your Bliss (so that we feel Your presence internally),

    विश्वानि नो दुर्गहा जातवेदः सिन्धुं न नावा दुरितातिपर्षि ।
    अग्ने अत्रिवन्मनसा गृणानोऽस्माकं बोध्यविता तनूनाम् ॥४॥
    Vishvaani No Durga-Haa Jaatavedah Sindhum Na Naavaa Durita-Ati-Parssi |
    Agne Atrivan-Manasaa Grnnaano-[A]smaakam Bodhy[i]-Avitaa Tanuunaam ||4||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    4.1: O Jataveda (one from whom the Vedas are born), You remove (grave) difficulties in all the Worlds; Please carry us like a Boat in this very difficult Ocean of the World (Samsara),
    4.2: O Agni (Fire of Durga), our Minds are invoking You (ardently) like sage Atri (who continuously chants the mantras), and our beings are (now) filled with Your Consciousness (by continuously invoking You),

    पृतनाजितँसहमानमुग्रमग्निँ हुवेम परमात्सधस्थात् ।
    स नः पर्षदति दुर्गाणि विश्वा क्षामद्देवो अति दुरितात्यग्निः ॥५॥
    Prtanaa-[A]jita[ngu]m-Sahamaanam-Ugram-Agni Huvema Paramaat-Sadhasthaat |
    Sa Nah Parssad-Ati Durgaanni Vishvaa Kssaamad-Devo Ati Durita-Aty[i]-Agnih ||5||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    5.1: (She is) the (Great) Fire Who is Invincible in Battle, and charges ahead in a Terrible manner conquering (the Enemies); We invoke Her together from the Highest Assembly (i.e. ardently invoke Her together with the greatest reverence),
    5.2: May that Agni (Fire of Durga) carry us over this World full of Great Difficulties, by (charging ahead and) Burning to ashes the very difficult Enemies (within us) with Her Divine Fire,

    प्रत्नोषि कमीड्यो अध्वरेषु सनाच्च होता नव्यश्च सत्सि ।
    स्वां चाग्ने तनुवं पिप्रयस्वास्मभ्यं च सौभगमायजस्व ॥६॥
    Pratnossi Kam-Iiddyo Adhvaressu Sanaac-Ca Hotaa Navyash-Ca Satsi |
    Svaam Ca-Agne Tanuvam Piprayasva-Asmabhyam Ca Saubhagam-Aayajasva ||6||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    6.1: You are lauded for spreading Bliss in the Sacrifice since ancient times (The Bliss resulting from killing the inner Enemies); You act as a Hota (Invoker of Bliss) by abiding as a New Maiden (Who is eternally young and free of decay) (in the Sacrificial Altar within the Hearts of the Devotees),
    6.2: Your own Conscious Form, O Agni (Fire of Durga) is a source of Happiness (Bliss) for us, and a source of Welfare for our Sacrifice,

    गोभिर्जुष्टमयुजो निषिक्तं तवेन्द्र विष्णोरनुसंचरेम ।
    नाकस्य पृष्ठमभि संवसानो वैष्णवीं लोक इह मादयन्ताम् ॥७॥
    Gobhir-Jussttam-Ayujo Nissiktam Tave[a-I]ndra Vissnnor-Anusamcarema |
    Naakasya Prssttham-Abhi Samvasaano Vaissnnaviim Loka Iha Maadayantaam ||7||

    (We offer our oblations to the Fire of Durga to cross over this very difficult ocean of worldly existence)
    7.1: With Senses (i.e. Mind and Heart) Pleased (by Your Blissful Presence) and becoming Unattached (to the external world), we are Infused with Your (Devotion), O the Highest One; May we Follow (i.e. Immerse ourselves in) Your All-Pervading (Blissful Consciousness) ...
    7.2: ... within the Spiritual Sky (Chidakasha), and dwell here in this Vaishnavi Loka (World of Your All-Pervading Consciousness), being Intoxicated (by Your Blissful Nature),

    ॐ कात्यायनाय विद्महे कन्याकुमारि धीमहि
    तन्नो दुर्गिः प्रचोदयात् ॥
    Kaatyaayanaaya Vidmahe Kanyaakumaari Dhiimahi
    Tan-No Durgih Pracodayaat ||

    Durga Gayatri:
    1: Om, (Let our mind contemplate) on Devi Katyayani to know Her (Conscious Form); (And then) Meditate on that Kanyakumari deeply (Who is the Universal Mother),
    2: May that (Fire of) Durga awaken (our Consciousness).

    ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥
    Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih

    Om, (May there be) Peace, Peace, Peace
    Last edited by shaberon; 13th June 2021 at 08:11.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    As a slightly different subject than just discussed, if I allow for a male-centric doctrine embodying many of the same principles expressed in yogini tantra, then things seem much clearer in terms of origin and development.

    To be less specific about "Shakti cults" and look more directly into the written sources of Yoga Tantra, we can go back a little farther into what could perhaps be described as a "transitional" era, when the Vedantic or Upanishadic teachings were in the domain of Priests and Kings, but began to be more "publicly accessible"--same as later ca. year 300 where it can be shown that Buddhism used a shakti-inspired Dharani system to provide its yoga system to lay people, thereby increasing its following versus institutionally-sponsored Hinduism.

    Because most written resources come from the medieval era forward, attributions to the Ramayana are normally older and more source-like than others. Puranas are somewhat like selective adaptations. Buddhism does have some of its own original deities, but still uses Brahma and others as the sub-stratum. And so if we see that some of the titles of Devi are simply her names as various manifestations at different times and places, then, we can find, for instance, that Katyayani appears to have been involved probably well before public rituals celebrating her as the sixth Durga at the time of Mahishmardini.

    Recollecting that Ganga is a river descending from the Akash to the physical plane, which will nurture the six mayavic Agni seeds and thereby also Karittikeya, she emerges at a pristine level as the sister of Uma:

    1) Menā (मेना).—Wife of Himavān. Beautiful Menā was the daughter of Mahāmeru [of Pitr and Svadha in some Puranas].

    Himavān lord of the mountains and the seat of many minerals and fossils had two daughters of unparallelled beauty and their mother was the lovely Menā, daughter of Mahāmeru and wife of Himavān. (Sarga 35, Bāla Kāṇḍa, Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa).

    Rāmāyaṇa states that Menā had two daughters of extraordinary beauty named Gaṅgā and Umā. They were both married by Śiva.

    But Vāmana Purāṇa in chapter 51 states that Menā had three beautiful daughters and a son named Sunābha. Menā’s first daughter was Rāgiṇī with red body and eyes and wearing a red dress. Her second daughter named Kuṭilā was white in colour, had lotus eyes, and wore white dress. The third was a girl of enchanting beauty named Kālī. She was blue-black in colour with eyes like the blue lotus leaf.

    It can be surmised that the Umā of Rāmāyaṇa and Kālī were one and the same person by the following verse in the Amarakośa.

    "umā kātyāyanī gaurī kālī haimavatīśvarī //"

    When the statements of the two Purāṇas are taken together Menā should have had four daughters, Gaṅgā, Rāgiṇī, Kuṭilā and Kālī and a son named Sunābha.

    And so that quick refrain evidently is the primary traditional description of a few phases, aspects, or incarnations of the same Devi.

    Katyayani is:

    2) Name of a wife of Yajñavalkya मैत्रेयी च कात्यायनी च (maitreyī ca kātyāyanī ca) Bṛ. Up.4.5.1.

    3) Name of Pārvatī; cf. उमा कात्यायनी गौरी काली हैमवतीश्वरी (umā kātyāyanī gaurī kālī haimavatīśvarī) Ak.

    As a yogini, she was Yajnawalkya's wife "of materialistic affairs". Correspondingly, her name must have had this significance at this early point.

    In terms of her later esoteric development, there is:

    Kātyāyanītantre Caṇḍīprakaraṇam. Rādh. 25.

    Kātyāyanītantra has the following synonyms: Devīmāhātmyamantravibhāgakrama.

    Vibhaga is divisions/classifications, so, an array, organization, or hierarchy of Devi mantras (cf. the Buddhist Ratna Gotra Vibhaga).

    There are Katyayani root mantras, related to Jupiter and Venus.

    Katyayani regularly appears outside of the Nine Durgas, such as in titles of Uma from Adi Parashakti:

    Parvathi or Visalakshi, the consort of Lord Kahi Vishwanatha is known by many names:- Uma, Karayayani, Gauri, Kali, Haimavati, Isvari, Sivaa, Bhadrani, Rudrani, Sarvani, Chandika, Ambik, Arya, Daksayani, Girija, Menakatmaja, Chamundi, Karnamoti, Carcika, Bhairavi.

    Or similarly in a Ramayana from Colonial Bengal.

    That one does show a medieval change, which is to associate Bharati to Sarasvati, whereas in Buddhist tantra this does not happen and she remains more primevally akin to Bhu.

    These, again, are grouped separately from Mahalakshmi who retains epithets such as Kamala.

    They or she is a major aspect and practice; approximately the same group is found in a larger Uma Stotram.

    Not being sure of the ages of most of these things, the short list is in Amarakosha (Ak in the definition above), an influential medieval thesaurus, considered to have been translated to Chinese by the seventh century. This is a major Indic text you can still get a PhD in. The author is considered to have been a Buddhist, which is reflected within:

    Svargadhikhaanda, the first Khaanda of the Amarakosha begins with the verse 'Svaravyam swarganakathridivatrishalaya..' describing various names of Heaven viz. Sva, Avya, swarga, Naka, Tridiva, Tridasalaya etc. The second verse 'Amara, nirjara, deva,’ describes various words that are used for gods and demigods. The fifth and sixth verses give various names of Buddha and Shakyamuni (i.e. Gautam Buddha). The following verses give the different names of Brahma, Vishnu, Vasudeva, Balarama, Kamadeva, Lakshmi, Krishna, Shiva, Indra etc. All these names are treated with great reverence. While Amara Simha is regarded to have been a Buddhist, Amarakosha reflects the period before the rise of sectarianism. Commentaries on Amarakosha have been written by Brahmanical, Jain and well as Buddhist scholars.

    Katyayani has a chronology which frames her as highly important since Ramayana:

    We worship Mata Katyayani the one whom Mahalakshmi herself prayed.

    Mata Sita prayed to Mata Katyayani for one valiant and kind husband and her wish was fulfilled when she married Lord Rama.

    Mata Rukmini prayed to Mata Katyayani because she wanted to marry Lord Krishna who was suitable for her after which Mata Katyayani fulfilled her wish.

    Radharani also prayed to Mata Katyayani to be with Lord Krishna and the other milkmaids of Vrindavan also prayed Mata Katyayani.

    Mata Katyayani is Mahishasuramardini.

    It is not saying she is not Mahishmardini, it says she must have been important prior to Sita, who is showing the puzzilingly inverse authority of Mahalakshmi.

    The Ramayana text does not have a certain origin, estimates may go to the 7th but not later than 3rd centruy B. C. E., so it is older than the written form of the majority of Puranas.

    The more archaic and direct source of Yogacara according to HPB is Yajnawalkya, credited for having coined "Advaita", is fairly reliably stated to have lived around the 7th-8th centuries B. C. E. Taittiriya which is really a complete school is shown to be much later or 3rd-4th century B. C. E. The involvement of Yajnawalkya to it is given in Vishnu Purana.

    Taittiriya and Brihad are both classed as schools of Yajur Veda.

    The Brihadaranyaka however is also estimated in the 700 B. C. E. range, attributed to Yajnawalkya, and probably refined or adjusted a couple of times. So this is closer to a "Root Text" than most anything.

    And so in the space of a few centuries, what seems to happen is that the Brihadaranyaka does not contain that much that highlights, exalts, or focuses on Devi per se, and then in the time of Tattiriya, then you get Durga Suktam.

    Brihadaranyaka is considered noteworthy for its Honey Doctrine:

    Madhu Vidya taught by Dadhyan Rishi to Ashwini Devatas assuming horse heads- the unique link between the Individual Self and the Supreme.

    According to Wiki:

    This theory appears in various early and middle Upanishads, and parallels Immanuel Kant's doctrine of "the affinity of phenomena" built on "the synthetic unity of apperception".

    As presented, it would have to be called non-Buddhist since in the first topic, there may be an "Atma" which is the subject but it is *not* an Individual Self because there is not one of those to do anything with. The second point is written from the view of looking at energy transforming throughout all kingdoms of nature, which may be an earthly Bhakta view, however, Apperception is Samjna Skandha, which is to be stopped, thereby converting the earthly shadow or Chhaya Samjna into a spiritual state or Saranyu Samjna, a Prajna, the wisdom of its emptiness or lack of inherent existence of Apperception. This is Purity of the Element Fire, or, i. e., heat of Tapas in Buddhism.

    At any rate, this is the beginning of the important point of Madhu.

    So, if Brihadaranyaka is Adwaita, then we basically just have a few philosophical and practice points which are different. This Aranyaka does seem to tell us something about Uktha, who in Mahabharata conjures the multi-colored Tapa Fire: He (Uktha) performed a severe penance lasting for many years, with the view of having a pious son equal unto Brahma in reputation. The Brihadaranyaka says according to Kamakoti:

    Meditation to Praana by Ukta Geeta facilitates unification of the body and the Soul!

    Even in Samkhya, Ukta-Gita is directly related to Paramarthika.

    The same practice is in Mahabharata:

    This agni is saluted with three kinds of Uktha hymns. (Mahābhārata Vana Parva, Chapter 219, Verse 25).

    In this sacrifice of king Janaka, the principal hymns relating to the Uktha rites are being chanted, and the Soma juice also is being adequately quaffed. And the gods themselves, in person, and with cheerful hearts, are accepting their sacred shares.

    It evidently does not mean Samans (sung) or Yajus (muttered) mantras:

    the mahad-uktham or bṛhad-uktham, ‘great Uktha’, forms a series of verses, in three sections, each containing eighty Tṛcas or triple verses, recited at the end of the Agnicayana

    At least one of the Ukthas is described in Aitareya Aranyaka, which begins more abruptly as a technical manual on chanting:

    1. He who knows one sacrifice above another, one day above another, one deity above the others, he is clever. Now this great uktha (the nishkevalya-sastra) is the sacrifice above another, the day above another, the deity above others 1.

    2. This uktha is fivefold.

    1 The uktha is to be conceived as prâna, breath or life, and this prâna was shown to be above the other powers (devatâs), speech, hearing, seeing, mind. The uktha belongs to the Mahâvrata day, and that is the most important day of the Soma sacrifice. The Soma sacrifice, lastly, is above all other sacrifices.

    So there is already a quite similar pattern to Panchamrita and Soma of the tantras.

    Without all the words for the hymn, we have a title, which means:

    Name of a [particular] recitation connected with the midday oblation and belonging to Indra exclusively.

    Looking at rites of the solstice, Nishkevalya is to Maruts and Indra, this considered to be among the oldest recordings of it, and likely linked to Proto-Indoeuropean.

    From II.1.3 with additional commentary:

    1. Next follows the origin of seed. The seed of Pragapati are the Devas (gods). The seed of the Devas is rain. The seed of rain are herbs. The seed of herbs is food. The seed of food is seed. The seed of seed are creatures. The seed of creatures is the heart. The seed of the heart is the mind. The seed of the mind is speech (Veda). The seed of speech is action (sacrifice). The action done (in a former state) is this man, the abode of Brahman. 2. He (man) consists of food (ira), and because he consists of food (iramaya), he consists of gold (hiranmaya ). He who knows this becomes golden in the other world, and is seen as golden (as the sun) for the benefit of all beings. performed on the last day but one (the twenty-fourth) of the Gavamayana sacrifice. That sacrifice lasts a whole year, and its performance has been fully described in the Brahmanas and Aranyakas. But while the ordinary performer of the Mahavrata has simply to recite the uktha or nishkevalya-sastra, consisting of eighty verses (trika) in the Gayatri, Brihati, and Ushnih metres, the more advanced worshipper (or priest) is to know that this uktha has a deeper meaning, and is to meditate on it as being the earth, sky, heaven, also as the human body, mouth, nostrils, and forehead. The worshipper is in fact to identify himself by meditation with the uktha in all its senses, and thus to become the universal spirit or Hiranyagarbha. By this process he becomes the consumer and consumed, the subject and object, of everything, while another sacrificer, not knowing this, remains in his limited individual sphere, or, as the text expresses it, does not possess what he cannot eat (perceive), or what cannot eat him (perceive him).

    The next passage explains prana--breath as the uktha. If it is a lower-case noun it means breath and chanting; as a proper name, the esoteric father of Tapa.

    NKU has published a page where someone has done similarly as we do, by clipping related passages from Chandogya Upanishad and Aitareya Aranyaka:


    1. 'The altar is man, O Gautama; its fuel speech itself, the smoke the breath, the light the tongue, the coals the eye, the sparks the ear.

    2. 'On that altar the Devas (pranas) offer food. From that oblation rises seed.


    1. 'The altar is woman, O Gautama.

    2. 'On that altar the Devas (pranas) offer seed. From that oblation rises the germ.





    1. This (nishkevalya-sastra) becomes perfect as a thousand of Brihatis. It is glory (the glorious Brahman, not the absolute Brahman), it is Indra. Indra is the lord of all beings. He who thus knows Indra as the lord of all beings, departs from this world by loosening the bonds of life '-so said Mahidasa Aitareya. Having departed he becomes Indra (or Hiranyagarbha) and shines in those worlds.

    2. And with regard to this they say: 'If a man obtains the other world in this form (by meditating on the prana, breath, which is the uktha, the hymn of the mahavrata), then in what form does he obtain this world?'

    3. Here the blood of the woman is a form of Agni (fire); therefore no one should despise it. And the seed of the man is a form of ditya (sun) therefore no one should despise it. This self (the woman) gives her self (skin, blood, and flesh) to that self (fat, bone, and marrow), and that self (man) gives his self (fat, bone, and marrow) to this self (skin, blood, and flesh). Thus these two grow together. In this form (belonging to the woman and to fire) he goes to that world (belonging to the man and the sun), and in that form (belonging to man and the sun) he goes to this world (belonging to the woman and to fire).

    If the Indra is a type of manifest or Sadguna deity which is rather like a gate to the Absolute, this is still the same sense as in the tantras.

    Then they added a few of the same things we have from Brihadaranyaka; this upanishad lacks much goddess portrayal, is written more as a lower-to-higher and prana-to-reality style, which was already quite vivid for its time. Aitareya is probably slightly younger than Brihadaranyaka.

    In the Brihadaranyaka's male-centric Purusha view, before the dawn of time, he lacks Rame or Ramate, and creates something female that does not quite seem to have a name, and the commentator associates terms which do not seem to be in the text:

    stree pumaamsau samparishvahtou

    tasmad ayam aakaashaah striyaa puryata eva taam ambhavat

    The female half and he fill the same Akash, and the act of creation begins with a merry chase owing to Lajja:

    This Shatarupa viz. the Prakriti Swarupa female realised that as to how the Purusha who tore off himself into two could create her and still has had physical union with her and thus out of shame hid herself in the form of a cow...

    I see things about Stri, or Patni, not about Rupa or Prakriti. I would make the same association, but I do not see how it is directly written there.

    Prakriti comes up once more in the commentary:

    Mind is comparable to Swarga whose body form is Surya of the
    complexion of extreme radiance; indeed as far as mind is extended, so far extends heaven and to Surya,
    both of the latter being united to Praana, the Vital Force. The Vital Force is Supreme and singular but the
    other two viz. Speech and its extensions viz. Earth and Agni and Mind its extensions viz. Swarga and
    Surya do have opposite partners. Indeed, the union of Prakriti viz. Speech, Earth and Fire on one hand and
    Mind, Heaven and Surya viz. Purusha on the other create Vital Force which indeed is unique and

    Here you already have Amrita and at least a foreshadowing of Annapurna:

    Prajapati the Swarupa of
    three ‘Annaas’or three kinds of food consisting of Speech-Earth-Fire resulting in the Vital Force has
    sixteen ‘Kalaas’ or components totalling a ‘Samvatsara’ or a Year of twelve months and twenty four
    fortnights, each alternative fortnight named as Shukla Paksha and Krishna Paksha or Moon Fallings and
    Moon Rises respectively). In other words, Prajapati is the ‘Annopaasaka Shodasha Kalaa Murti’ or He
    being the very creator and embodiment of Food is also the alternate form of Time which constitutes
    sixteen components of a Year comprising alternative moon falls and rises during twelve months. The
    nights and days are of fifteen units and the constant unit of the sixteenth is of Self himself!

    Maharshi explained to Shakalya that having accounted for thee thirty three Deities of the eight
    Vasus, twelve Adityas, eleven Rudras and Indra and Prajapati; now, the six Devas referred to earlier were
    Agni, Bhu Devata, Vayu, Antariksha, Surya and Chandra
    (The three Devas are three worlds: the Earth and Fire together
    make one Deva, the Sky and Air another and Heaven and Sun the third. The two Devas are the Matter and
    Praana or the Vital Force in the cosmic sense; and finally the one and half or the Cosmic Energy alone!)
    III.ix.9) Tadaahuh, yadayameka ivaiva Pavate,atha kathamadhyartha iti; yada asminnidam sarvam
    adhyaardhnot, tenaadhardha iti; katama eko Deva iti; Praana iti, sa Brahma’ tyat’ ityachaakshate/ (The
    catch in the existence of one and half Devas is explained as the Cosmic Energy being the interaction of
    Prakriti or Maya the Matter or the Glory of Existence and that of the Supreme viz. the Hiranyagarbha;
    now the reply of One Deva is indeed the Cosmic Energy or the Cosmic Vital Force is Brahman truly
    termed as ‘tyat’ or THAT!)

    Thus Vital Force in the cosmic context
    is indeed capable of expanding into infinite numbers, names, appearances, actions, features and powers.
    Now, one can recognise the deity if the empirical information is provided properly. For example, he who
    knows that person whose abode is Earth, whose instrument of vision is Fire, whose light is the Mind and
    who is the ultimate resort of the whole body and organs; it is that very being who is identified with the
    body; in reply to the query as to who is he, the reply would indeed be that it is the Amrita or the
    ‘Annarasa’ generated by food and nourishment of the Self and the Adhi Devata or the Deity concerned is

    The female deity perhaps has a kind of name:

    I do know that being of whom you mention about is the final resort of
    the body and organs and it is that very being who is obsessed with lust; indeed the reply is that the
    hridaya or the heart of the Self and the name of the relevant ‘Adhi Devata’ or the deity is ‘strees’ or
    women, as it is they who inflamed body pleasure in that Self!

    A female is the concatenation of offerings:

    Gautama! Woman is the fifth item to serve as the holder vessel of the Fire Sacrifice, the earlier ones being Surya deva, Rain God, Earth, and Praana! A woman in existence itself is a samidha or firewood, ‘loma harshana’ or body
    excitement is the ‘dhuma’ or smoke, Yoni is the jwaalaa or flame, the coals or the insertions into Agni are
    the ‘indhana’, angaara or sparks are the feelings of pleasure, and the ‘visphulinga’ or the climactic
    senses. Into that Agni, Devas implant the seed , out of which man is born. Water or liquids called
    conviction as offered to the ‘Devaagni’ or Celestial Fires result in gross forms of faith, moon, rain, food
    and seed thus in a man and the fifth oblation to Agni would create a human voice that has to die anyway!

    There is also a section telling you how to have sex to beget a good child; as a result, the Aswins grant the fertilized egg (germ) a Puskara lotus, and then they twist a flame with two golden sticks which makes the embryo grow.

    Prithvi is like/has the essence of Madhu/Honey. So, this is already semi-deified as a goddess.

    Gayatri--Savitri is the embodiment of prana. At this point we have a basis of the perhaps singular use of Marici Prana in the Buddhist Dharanis. Similarly, in Ganapati Hrdaya, there is an affixation of Ganapati to Mahaganapati, which has the same meaning, has harnessed prana and the five elements and is called Prana Shakti. This Gayatri spans the Three Worlds, as continuity into the Formless, who conveys a unique bliss. The following Surya is described as hidden by the visible sun.

    We have tried to say that Buddhist Marici is not "the wife of the sun", but, includes the pre-dawn twilight as well as the subtle nature indicated above. I am not sure that she has stand-alone sadhanas anywhere near this antiquity. Marici Prana is an epithet of Sarasvati in Golden Light Sutra, of which the oldest Sanskrit version is from Nepal, to which comparatively Surungama Sutra can be found in the second century. In Golden Light, Sarasvati expounds the art of bathing with mantra and aromatic herbs. After her presentation, she is praised by a Brahmin, who says:

    you stand on one foot, and are clothed in a garment made of grass.

    She is Lunar and has Eight Arms. This is, perhaps, the White Parnasabari of Samputa Tantra, part of the hypostasis of Marici. Drdha the earth goddess goes on to manifest palaces of the Seven Jewels. So here we already have a format of the trinity of an Apri Hymn, with Sri, who confers the Crown Initiation. Suvarṇa (सुवर्ण, ‘beautiful coloured’) is an epithet of gold (hiraṇya), and then comes to be used as a substantive denoting ‘gold’. The continuity of Mahamayuri Sutra to here is almost transparent, because Buddha is the Peacock King Suvarnaprabhasa (i. e., same as the name of Golden Light Sutra), Mayuri Vidyarajni is his attendant or queen, to the interior of which dharani, she is Hiranya Garbhe. So in this very early example of Buddhist Dharani craft is the very subject of the overly-male based explanations having been replaced by female via mantra. Pratisara and Sitabani are in it, so is Stambhani and Samantabhadri. The two-fifths of the Pancha Raksa that do not have folk origins do not seem to be here. Peacock King was said to use his mantra at dawn and dusk. Narayani seems to be the important family achieved here. Female Marici appears in it as a Raksasi on the same line with Varuni and Kali; there are multiple rings of these who guard a Bodhisattva in the womb.

    In Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Speech is related to Earth, which is probably how Bharati started to get mixed up with Sarasvati:

    speech is earth and its content is Agni; the body colour of Earth is terrestrial and its content Agni’s complexion is luminous. Both Earth and Fire are the vocal form of Hiranyagarbha viz. the speech.

    This Hiranyagarbha is a major subject of the Aranyaka, so, the Mahamayuri and the Golden Light Sutra also appear to enshrine this--not by elaborate repetition, but by mentioning it at all.

    In Buddhism, we would not have an issue with the Nirmana Gold Earth Chakra being swept by the Fire of Agni in the form of mantra. In fact that is exactly what we are trying to accomplish in Generation Stage. And it is perhaps here where there is a significant change from Hindu yogas because at this point, such fire becomes related to female deities almost exclusively. Therefor, the strange five-color male Tapa was a bit of a surprise to me, since we call the similar Tapasi as Vairocani (among others from other texts). If I suppress the knowledge that a great deal of the feminine presence refers to motions and flows in the subtle body, and accept there is an identical knowledge based just in Agni, the "veil of masculinization" is not that big of a deal. In our system, Tara repairs and opens the knots so that dakinis become the currents between the Pithas, whereas the Agni system does this mostly by fire oblations.

    In Mahabharata, Tapa came after the archetypal subject of "Agni enters the Waters", which is also stated here in the Aranyaka:

    In the waters is situated the ‘tejomaya and amritamaya Purusha’ or the ever shining and immortal Entity who is also known as ‘Antaratma’ or the Inner Self; indeed that is Immortal, is Supreme Brahma and ‘Sarvam’or the Totality! In fact water is
    absorbed in the Body as the ‘Retas’ or the seminal fluid!

    and the elements collapse or reduce similar to the Buddhist Tri-kaya:

    ...the body prevails upon the Elements of Prithvi-Varuna/ water, Vayu/ Ether, Agni / Fire. Then the body inculcates Kama/ Desire,
    Krodha / Anger, Dharma/ Righteousness as also the opposites of these feature.

    According to Wiki:

    Rahasya Brahmanas

    There is also a certain continuity of the Aranyakas from the Brahmanas in the sense that the Aranyakas go into the meanings of the 'secret' rituals not detailed in the Brahmanas. Later tradition sees this as a leap into subtlety that provides the reason for Durgacharya in his commentary on the Nirukta to say that the Aranyakas are ‘Rahasya Brahmana’, that is, the Brahmana of secrets.

    This material was basically the education of Sita (the incarnation of Mahalakshmi) and Gautama Siddartha (who became Buddha).

    It was mainly in the hands of priests literally following all of its complexity; Buddha essentially said--you do not need to do all that--but to follow the inner meaning. And so yes, the skeleton or framework being followed here--to mantricly reverse prana and become a type of Indra or gold--definitely follows through in the tantras. By the time of Tattiriya Aranyaka, the character and importance of Devi is recorded, which in the following centuries, at least in the hands of Buddhism, seems to incorporate non-scriptural practices of aboriginal or non-priestly tribes.

    I cannot quite say where this might definitely manifest as what Old Student decided to call "Siddha culture". I can say it is a lot like the narrow waist of an hourglass in Nepal for a few centuries.

    Roughly, the split between orthodox Brahmanism and heterodox doctrines or practices may be called Sramana:

    One of the outstanding distinctions between the brahmanical and the sramana
    doctrines is that whereas the former can be traced only to a body of literature of
    varying antiquity, the latter can be attributed to definite historical persons, who
    flourished around the sixth century B.C. in the ancient kingdoms of Videha and

    Sramana refers to a wandering mendicant, or a lovely or low-caste woman.

    As to "what kind" of a sramana and/or whether they may have encountered Matangi, etc., I am not exactly sure, except for Buddha himself.

    Such encounters must have been at least somewhat in play by the time of early Buddhist compositions such as Mahamayuri and the Lokottara Vijnanavadin or Yogacara corpus. There seems to be evidence of Kinnaris as Karma Mudras prior to most of these texts.

    Golden Light Sutra is in fact considered the Sutra source of Chod. If they say that, I would redouble the efforts about its Yaksha symbolism resembling the pisacis of the tantras.

    For Buddhist Yogacara of Samdhinirmocana and Lankavatara Sutras:

    ...Yogacara is a creative synthesis of three major formants--the mayavada of the
    early Mahayana Sutras, the Abhidharma world-plan, and a monistic emanation
    causality of the Upanisadic and Sankhya type, probably borrowed from some kind
    of Samkhya.

    Bhaviveka composed the first known comprehensive comparisons centuries later.

    The Aranyakas seem to be literally talking about the moment of conception, combined with a prana and five elements practice related to Indra; the first of which corresponds to Generation Stage, and the second being Rudra Krama or Mahabala Krama, resulting in the Indra Jala or Maya Jala which Old Student experienced. Because this is a practice of yoga, it is Yogacara, which is the further intended meaning beyond "philosophy of a Buddhist school", i. e. to practice it. Again this same metaphor appears with Buddhist Pratisara, an actual womb and then Generation Stage as Raudra Krama. This symbol is the first half of where Buddhism discretely classifies its yoga as being other-than Aryan Yoga. In this, probably both sides are true--if you literally wanted the pregnancy, this would be the way to do it, but otherwise it is the yogic male seed Smirti-Sadhana launching itself at the female egg or samadhi, which, if it successfully "conceives", it means you are experiencing Luminous Mind.

    That is why it is not too hard to recognize tantric stages, from Tapas experienced to Vairocani, which, when combined with the purified male, results in non-dual Luminous Mind, which is i. e. the vehicle used in a true tantric deity sadhana, Heruka Yoga.

    That is why I think we are just understudying Sadhana because we cannot actually even do a spiritual practice.

    No matter how much one one like to study and emphasize devis and goddesses, eventually, this male seed, point, or axis is "inevitable". If I was a woman and thought it would be weird to self-generate as a male deity and could do a lot of things from a Tara or female format, nevertheless, at some point, it has to have a Vajrasattva, even if you want to relegate him to androgyny so he is only half male, that will do. At some point when he is Heruka he is fully male. It is just half of reality but we can almost overlooking it by "reversing" the process of how most esoterism seems to be based from a male Purush and/or primarily male creators and lords. It is just a further and better explanation with the fullness of Devi.

    Katyayani and/or Durga or Kalaratri is Material Shakti corresponding to the Sister class of deities in Buddhism which produce Sambhogakaya, the Bhucari, Kshetri, and similar synonyms in the tantras.

    The Ramayana, itself, is an ancient legend taking place in Treta Yuga, whereas "historical Sita" who lived shortly before Buddha is a different person. Sita is also in a considerably different story which is in the Jataka tales as the daughter of the king of Benares.

    The Buddhist version of Ramayana is known as Dasarata Jataka. The story is more or less the same. A major difference between the Sanskrit Ramayana and the Buddhist version of Ramayana is that Rama, Sita and Lakshaman were sent by Dasaratha to live in the forest to protect them from his ambitious third wife. This version of the Ramayana has no mention of Sita's abduction.

    In a larger summary, the setting is that they become monarchs of Benares (Kashi).

    There is no Ravana or war in Lanka, which is not known to have taken place ca. 700 B. C. E. It is not about Vishnu because Rama is Buddha.

    The original, Valmiki Ramayana, has esoteric questions and answers in the twelfth-century Adbhuta Ramayana, which is where Sita--Mahalakshmi becomes Mahakali. But this is simply the "full explanation" which no one had asked about previously.

    That is why I take Ramayana and Brihadaranyaka Upanishad as "fundamental" types of texts, both are very early, very descriptive, and influential.

    This is the background of Yogacara, and of the medieval tantra system of Abhayakaragupta based in Vajravali, Sadhanamala, and Nispannayogavali, which is like a tapestry of associated Buddhist tantras, which themselves in turn are encased in an Agni Homa. The main explanatory tantra to this is Samputa, which we can easily study.

    The Samputa, itself, is a relatively late synthesis of several prior tantras.

    Nepal lacks any kind of Buddhism other than tantra intended to enhance Agni Homa.

    Because it does have continuity from Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, to Sita, to Buddha, and the advanced tantras are like intensifications of the same inner alchemy, then, not only am I unable to work around HPB's definition of "the or a Yogacara school", in fact it revealed itself by accident as what looks to me to be the best "thread" from among the oldest through many esoteric works.

    Everything, of course, has legends that it took place long before this, but this can be shown as a major system complete with corresponding divinities, whereas I am not sure how much could be said of a Stambhesvari post or a Lajja Gauri figurine even if it can be proven to be older.

    I can say Ratnakarasanti"s "Nirakara system" is "a Yogacara school".

    I am left with the beginning of the "subject" as Yajnawalkya, or, objectively, the oldest datable writings of it. Tantras as developed basically around the area became systems of Ratnakarasanti and Abhayakaragupta, which contradict the Adwaita less than they enhance, further refine, and complete it. At around the same time, almost the same could be said of the presumably-Hindu Adbhuta Ramayana. Because HPB said the "initiators" of her system derived from Yajnawalkya were "Cinnamasta tantrikas", and we know what this is due to the evolution and unfolding hypostasis of Vairocani, I am unable to obtain information that would actually change her "bookmarks". I did not try to do that or even know it was a thing, but, it bears out under extensive analysis.
    Last edited by shaberon; 15th June 2021 at 09:22.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Thank you for being so exuberant and linking all the different details together Shaberon 🙏 I’m always speechless when reading to you ( and that’s good for you).

    From practical perspective, I agree that both Yogacharya and Vedanta school of philosophy later turned to Buddhist Madhyamaka philosophical schools are ancient and intertwined.

    Practice lineages that survived many social cataclysms and historical upheavals are rare but they still exist, often namelessly.

    In India, there are millions of local deities but they all trace their origins to Mahashavari, Shiva Adi Yogi, Isha -Shiva-Parameshvati.

    There are old and new manifestation of Narayana,
    the Cosmic Life ,

    the first motion of cosmic waters

    where from the Egg of Brahma , this particular bubble of Universe was born.

    The daughter of Narayana, is Mahalakshmi but also Annapurna as she manifests in the form of subtle food - annam- the light we eat.

    The cycle of samsara really is revolutions of this particular planet and solar system we are dealing with.



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    Here is a bit closer look at the same as previous.

    I got something different when I first picked up Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, which I believe is in a complete translation with little of the original language. The beginning of it had to do with revamping Horse Sacrifice into a symbolic form, and then showing the inseparability of mind from pranic winds by using the horse metaphor Rider on the Winds with Six Mantra Kings, almost the same thing as in Namasangiti. So that was convincing.

    From the "inside", or, i. e., a reader and devotee of the original, the Kamakoti review talks about it in a different way. The kind of inextricable commentary placed in Essence of Brihadaranyaka is a little bit messy and over-zealous, probably like some things I have done. There are too many additions and changes compared to the original lines. In most Buddhist texts, you get the original, the translation, and the commentary is distinguishable, even if placed internally. Here, we have to work on which parts are the translations, such as:

    evam sarveshaam karmanaam hastaavekaanam,
    evam sarveshaamaanandaanaam upaasya ekaayanam

    hands for works or action,
    organ of generation for enjoyment and relief

    which are then followed by phrases which in this case, lack the bracketed words in the original text, in other words this comment is an addition or interpretation, does not seem to be there:

    Indeed, dissolution in any case is natural just as the termination of ignorance while Brahman
    or the Supreme Self is the only Reality [Satya] and the Ultimate Truth [Paramartha]!

    So it has already rung in the process of composition, and that reversing it is a normal process, dissolution is to be experienced.

    With minor work, we can find such things as "That Knower" is a form of Vijnana. Here, as a kind of semantic flip, Buddhism tends to call the transcendent consciousness Jnana, whereas Vijnana is more like Grounds and Path. Aside from the fact that Hinduism tends to call transcendent consciousness Vijnana, it is still close to the same subject. In their usage:

    When the Veil of Ignorance is lifted from Vijnana, it recognizes:

    the Absolute Self which is neither dual nor multiple

    asya sarvamaatmaivaabhuttatkena kam manveeta

    Here, there is Sarvamaatma, but not Paramatma as usually given, which seems to be an interpolation or association on the translator's part. So we are semi-questioning the use of Atma, not so much the fact that it is included in some way, but why translate it at all, especially as Self. The answer accepted more or less defines one's school of philosophy.

    In saying that "Horse Head rite is symbolic", this is at least answered by what they seem to be extracting as the special teaching here. Honey Doctrine or Madhu is an answer to yhe questions of Maitreyi, describing itself as within all elements and spheres, organically linking one organism to itself:

    Now, this Earth is like ‘madhu’ or honey which indeed is the essence of all the beings from Hiranyagarbha down to a blade of grass. The Self of any being comprises full of four entities viz. Prithivi maya, amrita maya, tejomaya and Purusha; or earth,
    honey, corporeal being in a mortal body and knowledge or intelligence and again the Self indicates Amrita Maya or Brahma maya; this indeed in Brahman all about; stated differently, existence is by itself is a sweet experience...

    with the next element:

    In the waters is situated the ‘tejomaya and amritamaya Purusha’ or the ever shining and immortal Entity who is also known as ‘Antaratma’

    which seems to be triune or triply-aspected:

    idamamritam, idam Brahma, idam satyam/

    This line becomes a refrain, with "satyam" replaced by "sarvam" in the following verses, idamamritam, idam Brahma, idam sarvam.

    "Antaratma" is not stated in the verse, although it can at least be found in the book. Tejomaya and Amritamaya become the companions of Purusha like they are here, that part is accurately emphasized in the original.

    Honey is discussed continuing its "oneness" within Fire, Air, Sun, Directions, Moon, Lightning:

    The Vidyut is at once a flash of piercing vision yet is a permanent phenomenon on the Skies. Identified with the sensation of touch and skin on a body of the Beings, this is an active segment of the Self comprising the body, its awareness or appropriately
    named as knowledge, the light within the body in the form of the touch and its sweet existence- all these four are ideally unified with Paramatma.

    It is trying to make the case that the individual "in these conditions" becomes the direct reflection of Paramatma. In the next category:

    Clouds are nice and sweet like honey to all Beings as these are the abodes
    of the ‘Tejomaya and Amritamaya Purusha’ who is identified with sound and voice in the body of each
    and every being in Srishti representing the Self, knowledge, inherent radiance and perpetuity interconnected to Brahman the Superior Most (the original has vidyut starting tejomaya, etc.).

    This Akasha is like honey to all the Beings in the
    Space identified with the heart in their physiques. This ether is where Purusha rests being replete with
    radiance and ecstasy, known otherwise as Antaratma or the Inner Self based on realisation, inbuilt
    brightness, and everlasting nature interconnected with the Supreme.

    Dharma or righteousness is the code of conduct as per the Scriptures enunciated
    in Shrutis and Smritis; indeed this dharma is like honey to the various Beings; yet this code is neither seen
    nor readily felt like Earth, Sun, Moon, Water, Fire, Sky, Lightning, Directions, clouds and so on; yet
    Dharmaacharana or Following the Established Principles of Morality is indeed divinely sweet like honey,
    bright like flood of radiance and gratifying and fulfilling like ‘Tejomaya-Amritamaya- Antaratma’ or
    Inner Conscience which again is eternal, radiant and Supreme viz. ‘Paramatma’ or Brahman; indeed the
    Self is but a reflection of the Utmost Abstraction!

    This concept of Satya or Truthfulness is sweet like honey for all the
    Beings in the Universe; it is in this Satya that is embedded in the Purusha who is the embodiment of
    Radiance and ‘Amritatwa’ or Eternity; he is the Adhyatmika Purusha or the Self who is interconnected
    with Paramatma or the Absolute Brahma who is Everything!

    Humans and other species:

    The Four factors governing the Self are righteousness, knowledge, brightness within and of everlasting nature.

    This "composite of four", adjusted from the beginning:

    Prithivi maya (Earth), amrita maya (Honey), tejomaya (body, incarnation, or Sarira in the text) and Purusha; the Self indicates
    Amrita Maya or Brahma maya

    Although they are translating Purusha as "Self", whereas it is being described in relation to atma:

    prithivyaayaam tejomayomritamayah purushah, yashchaayamadhyaamtam sharirah
    tejomayomritamayah Purushah ayameva sa yoyamatmatmam sharirastejomayomritamayah Purushah
    ayameva sa yoyamatmaa

    Compare to the Four Qualities of Buddha Nature by Maitreya:

    (1) First, ‘Buddha-nature is great purity beyond all concepts of pure and impure.’

    (2) Second, ‘Buddha-nature is the great self beyond all beyond all concepts of self and no-self.’

    (3) Third, ‘Buddha-nature is great blissfulness of pleasure and pain, or suffering and bliss.’

    (4) Finally, ‘Buddha-nature is the great permanent state beyond all concepts of permanence and impermanence.’


    The Śrīmālādevī Siṃhanāda Sūtra teaches the reality of an ultimate, immaculate consciousness within each living being, which is the Buddhic "Dharmakāya" (essence of Truth), which is yet temporarily sheathed in obscuring defilement. This Dharmakāya, when viewed as intrinsically free from spiritual ignorance, is said to constitute eternity, bliss, the self, and purity in their perfect state. The use of the word "self" in this sutra is in a way unique to this class of sutra. The great Queen Śrīmālā, who according to this text is empowered by the Buddha to teach the Dharma, affirms:

    [T]he Dharmakāya of the Buddha has the perfection of permanence, the perfection of pleasure, the perfection of self, the perfection of purity. Whatever sentient beings see the Dharmakāya of the Tathagāta that way, see correctly. Whoever see correctly are called the sons of the Lord born from his heart, born from his mouth, born from the Dharma, who behave as manifestation of Dharma and as heirs of Dharma.

    That is from the section defining Ekayana. Then it makes sure to sweep away any conventional psychological kind of atma:

    ...O Lord, the tathāgatagarbha is not a substantial self, nor a living being, nor ‘fate,’ nor a person. The tathāgatagarbha is not a realm for living beings who have degenerated into the belief of a substantially existent body or for those who have contrary views, or who have minds bewildered by emptiness.

    Purity, Self, Bliss, and Permanence characterize Tathagatagarbha, compared to Prithvi--Earth, Madhu--Amrita, Tejas--luminous incarnate life force, and Purush of the Aranyakas. Earth is Pure, Amrita generates Bliss, and Tejas, in Buddhism, has more to do with that Tapas that has reached the head and accomplished the wrathful rite and begins to affect the environment, a yoga practice requiring a body and its life forces and supposed to reveal fire. Without trying to force these two groups of Four Qualities to be identical, they certainly seem to be rather close.

    In Nepal, there is a World Lotus, said to have been visited/tended by Historical Buddhas, similar to spiritual custody of a germ in a womb growing into a lotus; and when revealed, it got the name Swayambhu Jyotir Rupa Adi Buddha--which is not far from the title assumed by Prithvi when conjoined with Vak here:

    Tasyai vaachah Prithivi shariram jyotirupamayamagnih; tadyavatyeva
    Vaak, taavatiee Prithvi taavaanaya magnih/ (Out of these entities, speech is earth and its content is Agni;
    the body colour of Earth is terrestrial and its content Agni’s complexion is luminous. Both Earth and Fire
    are the vocal form of Hiranyagarbha viz. the speech. Thus as far as Speech is extended so far Earth and
    Agni are extended too)

    Some metaphors of mantra include Cow:

    This most auspicious component of Dharma or Virtue and Justice embodied as a cow
    which posesses four teats of meditation akin to what calves suck are known as the sounds of Swaaha,
    Vashat, Hanta and Swadha! Swaha and Vashat are the sounds signifying the oblations to Agni targetted to
    Devas; hanta is meant for human beings as the food for them, literally meaning; ‘ if required’; swadha
    denotes the sound of the utterance of the mantra used for offerings to Pirtu Devas / manes as Shraaddhiya
    Vasthus or offerings in Shraddha Karmas. In this context, speech is likened to a bull which indeed is the
    Vital Force or Praana, while calf is the mind which stimulates the flow of milk. In other words, one who
    meditates Brahman uses speech the Cow and mind as the calf and bull as the vital force!)

    Agni Vaisvanara:

    Vaishwanara Agni Brahman declares his splendour clearly distinguishing Truth/Untruth

    V.ix.1) Ayamagnir Vaishwaanaro yoyamantah purushe, yenedam annam pachyate yadidam adyate;
    tasyaisha ghosho bhavati yam etat karnaavapidhaaya shrunoti sa yadoskramishyan bhavati nainam
    ghosham shrunoti/ (After identifying with the radiance of mind, then Vidyut or Lightning, and Speech
    signifying a cow and its means of meditation, now another medium of mediation is Agni and the
    personification within it as a Being viz. Vishvaanara, since Shruti states ‘Ayamagni Vaishvaanara’;
    indeed this Agni is well outside the Purusha or a Human and far before the human body! It digests food
    consumed by the person and the heat of his stomach. As the fire digests the food, it emits sound stopped
    by the ears with one’s fingers. Thus one should meditate upon the Agni as Vaishwanara or Viraja...

    Or Manas:

    The Mind is considered as the interiormost chamber of the heart and is likened to the inner grain of say rice or
    barley. Mind reveals every thing and in fact the Individual Self is identified with it and its brightness. It is
    considered by Yogins as the prime commander of the various other body parts. Mental stamina and
    stability are the cause and effect alike of meditation to the Supreme; indeed mind is Brahman and
    identical since ‘ one becomes precisely as one meditates upon the Almighty!

    The culmination is a type of Mrtyu Vacana or Deathlessness (yaścāsyāṃ pṛthivyāṃ tejomayo mṛtamayaḥ = amaraṇadharmā in Satapatha Brahmana):

    ...the Karta or the Chief Organiser of a
    Sacrifice could utilise the instrument of Ritvik Swarupa Agni or the Hota Priest could invoke Fire and
    overcome death by way of ‘Vaak’or the Speech and the relevant Mantras; indeed ‘Vaak’ is the medium of
    Sacrifices; Vaak is the conveyor to Agni, that is the role of a Hota, that is the Mukti and Ati Mukti or
    emancipation and total Salvation! In the ‘Madhukanda’ the ‘Udgeetaprakarana’ or the Chapter named
    Udgeeta, the Hota explains in brief the ways and means to surpass ‘mrityu’ by way of the fiery and
    radiant ‘Agni Mukha’...

    It is similar, but not the same as Uktha; Udgita is either Saman or Pranava, from an article showing the exposition of Om throughout the texts:

    Because it was not permitted to use the word directly, some early Upanishads referred to it indirectly as the udgita (upsound) or pranava (calling out), alluding to its significance in regulated breathing and religious chanting respectively. Other expressions used in the scriptures in reference to it are vācaka (symbol), tārāka (crossing) and akshara (imperishable word). It is also described as Brāhman in sound form (Sabda Brāhman).

    Savitri Gayatri being a pranic purification is intended to advance in stages and open the clairvoyant eye:

    Savitri being the hymn in praise to Surya deva is what a teacher instructs in stages ie. a quarter to
    commence at the time of wearing the holy thread, half eventually and finally the totality is thus identical
    with the vital force, enhancing vision of the inner eye!

    So there is frequently an Atma in here, but, compared to what the commentary seems to indicate, the more frequent term than Antaratma in the original Brihadaranyaka text is "Ayamatma". This is used in Upanishads in all Four Vedas and is "identity" like "Aham", and thereby about the same as Soham Hamsa, and so non-different identity with Brahman.

    The commentary says:

    This ‘Antaratma’ or the Self Consciousness is the
    sovereign of all Praanis or the most beloved like sweet honey itself; this is indeed is the dazzling fund of
    luminosity and the sustaining drink of Deva Ganas and what is more the Eternal Brahma that is
    ‘Saravaswa’ or the Totality. This Individual Self which is akin to burnt coal camouflaged by ash is
    possessed of add-on body- appendages just as the Basic Truth is covered by the thick layer of makebelieve maya or ignorance; it defies pure intelligence, but deep devotion and meditation with the aid of
    Brahma Gyaan alone can gradually clear the smokes of ignorance; indeed it is the ‘Shruti-Smriti pathanasmarana-jignaasa’ alone could loosen the tight stranglehold of Agjnaana and pave the gradual and thorny
    path of Illusions that reveals the hard away to Brahman and eventually identify Brahman ultimately. The
    identification and Identity of the Self as the Supreme Self is possible only when all the spokes are fixed
    properly in the nave and felloe of a wheel when all the organs of a body and their end-uses like speech,
    touch, smell , action, thought, etc. are ideally fixed on the Self.

    The commentary also uses Viraj frequently, however, as a Shakti, Viraj in Orissa is at least as old as Mahabharata before going back to an inscrutable Stambhesvari. This however does not seem to be used in the original, except for Patni Viraat in reference to the subtle body and prana, the better half, wife, or matter, which would refer to shakti. The Viraj temple link calls her Earth, and claims to be so throughout the older Atharva Veda history back to the 13th century B. C. E.

    In general use, Viraj is the original, non-dual unity with respect to our planet, and may be retained as an epithet of the primordial male and female divisions.

    The Viraja Homa Mantra chant is part of the Maha Narayano Upanishad (Narayana Upanishad / Narayana Valli), Taittireeya Shakha of Yajur Veda. During Avani Avittam (Upakarma), the Viraja Homa is usually performed after Mahasankalpam & Vedaarambam. This practice is mostly followed by people in Andhra/ Telangana and parts of Karnataka and a few in Tamil Nadu.

    In the book, Viraj is given as a synonym for Prajapati, and is distinctly used here but not present in the translation:

    IV.iv.20) Ekadhaivaanudrashtavyam etad aprameyam dhruvam, Virajah para aakaashaad aja aatmaa mahaan dhruvah/

    (As the form of consistent and harmonised Pure Intelligence realises like the elemental ether permeating
    all over the Universe, the Individual Self is taintless as being free from the imperfections and contami -
    nations of body and senses. The Self is infinite and indestructible as neither it comes into life, nor exists,
    grows, begins to decline, decays and dies!)

    Viraj originates in Rg Veda, is associated with motherhood in Atharva Veda, and in the Puranas as female is generally equivalent to Aditi.

    It perhaps has male--lunar and female--solar lines of descent:

    1a) Viraja (विरज).—A son of Pūrṇiman.*

    * Bhāgavata-purāṇa IV. 1. 14.

    1j) A son of Pūrṇamāsa and Sarasvatī; his wife was Gaurī; son Sudhāmā.*

    * Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa II. 11. 13; Vāyu-purāṇa 28. 10-12; Viṣṇu-purāṇa I. 10. 6.

    2a) Virajā (विरजा).—A daughter of progenitor, Viraja; wife of Ṛkṣa; loved by Mahendra, became mother of Vāli; loved by Sūrya, became mother of Sugrīva.*

    * Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa III. 7. 212-15.

    The oldest written Purana is probably the Vayu from ca. 200.

    But there is a strong likelihood it was originally one tradition from Vyasa which amalgamated, was probably orally transmitted:

    According to Wiki, the term Itihasa Purana is found in Chandogya Upanishad and in Atharva Veda.

    The Brhadaranyaka Upanishad also refers to purana as the "fifth Veda".

    The late Vedic text Taittiriya Aranyaka (II.10) uses the term in the plural.

    Those are many centuries before the first known recordings. The sense is, Purana is not a Saman, it is "with" a Yajus, so maybe it is an Uktham; has something to do with gathas or verses.

    In the Vedic age, those portions of the Brahmanas which narrated events of bygone days were known as itihasa and had some ritualistic importance. The recitation of the itihasa-purana in the pariplava nights was a part of the Asvamedha ritual. In the extant literature, the terms Itihāsa and Purāṇa have acquired a distinct use. Itihāsa may correspond to an epic and Purāṇa to a series of narrations, without the main purpose of a running tale, meant solely to explain cosmological and theological tenets.

    So the "subject" of purana was an entity, maybe something like the Charya Gitas of the Siddhas, but as to what it was, you will see for instance that the Brihadaranyaka contains little of what could be called "Puranic terminology". It has a close common root with the epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata, which are more objective. But there is no way to show quite what these were, whereas, in the Aranyakas, you have a pretty clear teaching that I would certainly say is the underpinning of Suksma Yoga, although it probably has a different name for the same thing. At the time, it consisted of a few chapters bundled in multiple other texts, kept at the end of a Veda. As to what exactly happened if people shifted this teaching into an alternate lifestyle where they do not automatically do five temple rituals every day, and, in the later Tattiriya Aranyaka there is a yogic song of Durga, all we know is somehow the forest maiden theme must have been relevant or corresponding to the male-centric Purusha, later Visnu and Shiva, exoteric material.

    The name Viraj is much more significant and, as we can see, roughly is the main agent in the tumult of masculine scriptures, and as feminine is "known" in Orissa without any such ancient writings to explain her:

    In the Atharvaveda, Viraj is a cow or with Prana, the life-breath. Viraj has something like twenty identifications in Atharvaveda, down to "Dhruva, the point of the heavens directly under the feet...in elder Upanishads this name appears thrice – once in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad passage IV.ii.3 as "the human form that is in the left eye", and twice in the Chandogya Upanishad in passages I.xiii.2 as the stobha called Vak (Vairaj Sama) and IV.iii.8 as the food and as the eater of food, Viraj is food - virad annam bhogyatvad eva (BUBh 4.2.3). Viraj is originated from Sutram (159,BUBhV p. 431,st18/9) also called Sutratman in Vedantasara, basically of feminine gender, its masculine gender is also found in Brahma Purana I.53, its coming forth is due to delusion. Viraj is said to be food, the essence of food, identical to the pinda, food and the eater of food, to be the eldest of beings as food, to pervade all products as their material cause, to be Prajapati. Viraj is said to be released by virtue of her own nature, originated from Brahman from Viraj, Purusa or Manu. In Vedantasara it is Vaisvanara and is said to be Caitanyam (intelligence)..."

    So, ok, it refers to the quote in Brihadaranyaka about the perfect feminine, which is related to Vak, Earth, and Food, and since we keep finding Food used in an occult manner, then, yes, we can also bookmark that as something like the finale of our Buddhist Dakini Jala Rahasya. The same subject or symbol comes up early in Sadhanamala, Vajra Navediye. Comparatively, there are only a few finishing touches that consist of Completion Stage. So this bookmark probably does represent a complete translation of symbolism to inner meaning, the major goal of Yoga Tantra. Therefor this one word, Viraj, pretty much teaches Generation Stage "by implication", and why it is a rare title for deities (primarily Parasol). In the esoteric view, it is sub-Hiranyagarbha or Sutra, that is all. Otherwise it is the Androgyne, such as Ardhanishvar and others.

    Note that the original text says Purusha Rupam, not manushya rupam or human form, and this commentary seems to add a lot to the actual line. Purusa Rupa is even overlooked in a line from Srimad Bhagavatam where it produces the Maha Tattva. The "left eye" or perhaps half of Purusha is Viraj:

    The left eye in the human form is called ‘Viraja’ or the better half or wife viz. the Matter. Indra of the Self is designated as Vaishwaanara the right eye, and Viraja the left eye, the matter or the wife , both being the objects of enjoyment. This couple named the matter and the Enjoyer are united that situation is called dreams.The Space that is within the lump of flesh
    named the heart of the body is their place of union and that indeed is the place where Indra and Viraja
    have each other’s company! Their food or the source of sustenance called the lump of blood or the
    essence of the food as eaten, takes two forms; the gross part that goes down as excreta and the rest is
    metabolised in two ways due to action of the internal heat; one part is of medium fineness that passes
    through successive stages of blood nourishes the gross body made of five elements named Vishva or
    ‘Vaishvaanara’; another penetrates through fine nerves and that is called the subtle body named ‘Taijasa’
    and the third viz. the causal body is called ‘Praagjnaa’or the very fundamental connection: these three
    forms correspond to wakefulness, dream state and dreamless sleep.Now, when one talks of the lump of
    blood in the heart or the finest food essence, there is a net like structure in the heart or warp; net like is the
    expression due to several openings of nerves; these nerves of the body are designated as ‘Hitaa’, placed in
    the lump of flesh viz. the heart. These branch off everywhere like filaments; this is how the subtle body
    contains food essence compared to the gross body)

    Ut or Udgeeta is possible only through vital force and speech, whereas Saman is an increase of wealth and Gold.

    And so that already has eighty percent or so of Buddhist mantra basics, it affects prana, leads to Bliss, produces Golden Light when done successfully. It speaks of, roughly, two main kinds of pranas, and, in the commentator's view, is an important original practice of Honey, which is almost exactly the same thing as Nepalese tantra having Varuni as a type of secret Soma goddess who is the One Source of any tantric attainment of samadhi or siddhis, etc.

    As to the origin of Madhu:

    Then the Maharshi explained what Dadhyan Rishi taught to Ashwini Devatas in Atharva Veda. But there was a huge catch behind the narration: Dadhyan cautioned the two Ashwini Devas that in view of Lord Indra’s condition that any one
    trying to learn Madhu Vidya would automatically have their heads dropped; however Dadhyan assured
    that the heads would be kept secured and replaced by the heads of horses and the operative portion of the
    Madhu Vidya meditation being the rite called Pravargya minus however the ‘goodhaartha’ or the secret
    portion called Self-Knowledge; indeed the Self Knowledge is as self revealing eulogy as a thick cloud with
    rumbling noises inevitably would end up in heavy rains! Obviously the two Ashwini Kumars yielded to
    the tempting offer of Dadhyan Rishi as also his assurances and agreed to the Offer to get beheaded and
    horse heads replaced.

    the Madhu Vidya or the Instruction of Honey which was ‘Twaashtra’ (in the original) or Related to Surya was thus being accorded; this was the Pravargya karma which would indeed be followed by Madhu Vigyaan implicitly if not explicitly!
    Indeed this Madhu Vidya not only reveals the transformation of the Inner Self to the heightened level of
    the Supreme Brahman and the incidental methodology of recovering the horse heads to normalcy as of
    original Ashwini Kumars. Moreover the ‘Puraschakre pura sharira’ or the erstwhile form of those since
    initiated to Madhu Vidya would subsequently lead to Purusha Swarupa and further help merge into
    Avyakta Swarupa of Brahman.

    It traces its lineage to Hiranyagarbha, which is called Swayambhu in the original, passing through Paramesthin--Viraj, eventually to Atharvan, Dadhyan, Aswins, Aswin Kumaras, Visvarupa Tvastr, Abhuti Tvastr, Ayasya Angirasa, eventually to Atri and Bharadwaj, ending on Pautimasya.

    This Angiras does not fail in his Jupiter role as sort of a divine transition of Prana out of Pralaya:

    The vital force which is the essence of the members of the body is called ‘Ayaasya Aangirasa'.

    Soyasya Angirasah, angaanaam hi rasah; Prano vaa Angaanaam rasah, Prano hi vaa angaanaam rasah; tasmadyasm aatkaramaaccha angrat praana udgaamati tadeva tacchshyati, esha hi vaa angaanaam rasah/

    Esha vu eva Brihaspatih, Vaagve Brihati, tasyaa esha Patih, tasmad Brihaspatih/ (The Vital Force under
    reference is Angirasa and is also Brihaspati or ‘Brahmanah pati’ and the embodiment of speech).

    Prithivyai chainamagnaischa Daivi vaagaavishati; saa vai
    Daivi Vaagyayaa yadyaddeva vadati tat tad bhavati/ (The celestial organ of Speech caused from Earth
    and Fire infuses into the father and is bestowed to the son and that ‘Daiva Vaak’ is indeed pure and
    devoid of falsehood, exaggerations and over- simplification; it is reliable and convincing). (I.V.19)
    Divashchainam adityaaccha Daivam Mana aavishati; tadvai Daivam mano yenaandyaiva bhavati, atho
    na shochati/ (‘Divya Manas’ or the celestial mind from Swarga and Surya Deva are also infused into the
    father and that divine mind makes him full of naturally joyful without evil thoughts or even traces of
    discontentment or disappointment at any point of time and keeps him even-minded and sense of
    fulfillment always!) (I.V.20) Adbhyaschainam chandramashcha Daivam Praana aavishati; sa vai Daivah
    praano yah samcharamshachaaschamscha na vyayate , atho na rishyati; sa evamvitsarveshaam
    bhutaanatmaa bhavati; yatheshaa devataivam sah; yathaitaam devataam sarvaani bhutaanyavanti, evam
    haivamvidam sarvaani bhutaanyavanti, yadu kinchemaah prajaah shochanti, Amaivaasaam tadbhavati,
    punyamevaamum gacchanti, na ha vai Devan paapam gacchanti/( Divya Praana or the Celestial Vital
    Force from water and Moon also permeates the father figure. That indeed is the Divine Praana which feels
    no pain or is not subject to any injury, either in the state of flux / motion or of constancy. Those who are
    aware of this fact or truism is indeed the Self or the Self-Conciousness. This Antaratma or the Pure
    Consciousness is as good as Praramatma or Hiranyagarbha himself! Indeed just as all the beings accord
    recognition to the Almighty so also one reverse and cares for the Self; in fact it is the ‘Manassakshi’
    which is the Conscience that is more relevant at every step that one takes! Yet another truism of life is
    that all shortcomings that one commits are squarely on the account of oneself and if virtuous deeds are
    performed the positive results are on the account of Hiranyagarbha who is the Final Judge!

    After that is a section on Nama and Rupa, close to the same as understood in Buddhism.

    Again, yes, true in origin about the derivation from Jupiter, again compare the rivalry of Tara and to Sarasvati as Vagisvari.

    There is "Antaratma Akasha" in II.iii, making a distinction from the prana of the mortal body's breath, and the formless, immortal prana of Vayu and Akasa. One is bound in space, the other is free to move, like a dakini.

    Antarātman (अन्तरात्मन्):—[tatpurusha compound] m.

    (-tmā) 1) The Supreme Soul (comp. paramātman and puruṣa) as residing in the interior of man, as the inward Spirit or individual Soul. In the Upanishads the words puruṣa, ātman and antarātman are often used apparently as synonyms, but the term antarātman is, more especially, appropriated there to the notion of the Supreme Soul when it resides, according to their doctrine, in the interior of the heart, of a thumb’s size (‘aṅguṣṭhamātraḥ puruṣontarātmā sadā janānāṃ hṛdaye saṃniviṣṭaḥ’).

    It is an old term also used by Manu, superceded in later philosophy by Jivatman. It seems to be distinguishing mind/feelings/conscience from "intellect within the senses". But this, small flame, also continues in Vaisnavite and Buddhist doctrine.

    Paramatma does not appear in the original at all; in some spots it appears to be pasted over these sorts of original names:

    Brahma Puranam

    Saptamam Brahmanam

    In one section, "self" appears to be Mahatma which is the same in dream (svapna) or awakened (buddha) conditions.

    Two groups of three syllables are explained, Hri Da Ya and Sa Ti Ya, in between which is:

    Tad vai tat, etad eva tadaasa satyameva; sa yo haitan mahad yaksham prathamajam veda;
    Satyam Brahmeti; Jayateemamlokaan; jita invasaa asat ya evam etan mahad yaksham prathamajam
    veda; Satyam Brahmeti, Satyam hi eva Brahma/

    I am not quite sure it says Yakshas cover the inner knowlegde of the Vedas, but it might.

    The importance of Honey Doctrine is recapitulated at the end:

    This is the Grand Message that Veda Vedangas have taught and the Great Teachers down
    the line had taught and finally the Dadhyan Rishi taught to Ashwini Kumars, who learnt the quintessential
    Pravargya having paid the price of having been beheaded , replaced with horse faces and finally restored
    with original faces again. The final Mantra of the rite of Pravargya was inferred by the Ashwini Kumars
    just as thick clouds would inevitably thunder into heavy rains from the Sky!

    It is extensively developed in the, probably sequential, Chandogya Upanishad:

    The simile of "honey" is extensively developed, with Vedas, the Itihasa and mythological stories, and the Upanishads are described as flowers. The Rig hymns, the Yajur maxims, the Sama songs, the Atharva verses and deeper, secret doctrines of Upanishads are represented as the vehicles of rasa (nectar), that is the bees. The nectar itself is described as "essence of knowledge, strength, vigor, health, renown, splendor". The Sun is described as the honeycomb laden with glowing light of honey.

    It also makes a seven-fold classification of elements such as clouds and rain to the aspects of chanting.

    Two of the oldest surviving manuscript copies of the Shukla Yajurveda sections have been discovered in Nepal and Western Tibet, and these are dated to the 12th-century CE. The middle layer of it contain the Satapatha Brahmana, and the younger layer includes six major Upanishads. Atharva Veda is not in the same class. The oldest name of the text, according to its own verse 10.7.20, was Atharvangirasah, a compound of "Atharvan" and "Angiras", both Vedic scholars. That is how Chandogya names the Atharva hymns. The Tattiriya and the Buddhist Nikayas refer to only three Vedas. The Atharva is considered to have lower-class priests than the other Vedas. The verse 11.7.24 of Atharvaveda contains the oldest known mention of the Indic literary genre the Puranas. The 1st millennium AD Buddhist literature included books of magico-religious mantras and spells for protection from evil influences of non-human beings such as demons and ghosts. These were called Pirita (Pali: Paritta) and Rakkhamanta ("mantra for protection"), and they share premises and style of hymns found in Atharvaveda. Atharva contains only three Upanishads we have never had recourse to.

    The Brihadaranyaka commentary is at least somewhat open to Bauddha Dharma, even though it is not in the original:

    Some call Him as Lord Buddha opined as ‘suddden flash of lightning’ or Enligtneement , that is aprameyam asamkhyeyam achinttyam anidarshanama, Swayam eva atmana -atmaanam twam eva jnaatumarhasi/ or That only the Self could realise about Him who is beyong measure, beyond number, beyond thought, beyond comparison.

    ‘Sutra’ or the thread between Brahman and the Self is Vayu-the subtle entity connecting the Five Elements, body organs and senses, praana and the past-present-future.

    This "atma" is not erased by Buddhism, but, instead, altered, such as being called Dhatu in RGV.

    Prajnaparamita on Dharani explains all the Bodhisattvas as having dharani, describes it mainly as words, qualities, and Upekka, and:

    is contained in one element (dhātu), one basis of consciousness (āyatana) and one aggregate (skandha), namely, dharmadhatu, dharmāyatana and saṃskāraskandha.

    Nine knowledges (jñāna) cognize it [Note: it is outside the knowledge of destruction of the afflictions (kṣayajñāna)]. One single consciousness (vijñāna) is aware of it [Note: the mental consciousness (manovijñāna)]. According to the Abhidharma, this is the definition of dhāraṇī.

    That is a bit like Vajradakini--Parasol having much to do with the head, but then also Samsara Skandha, which tends to be associated with the lower center.


    Dhāraṇī (धारणी) refers to the “four retentions” as defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 52):

    ātma-dhāraṇī (the rentention of oneself),
    grantha-dhāraṇī (the rentention of a book),
    dharma-dhāraṇī (the rentention of the dharma),
    mantra-dhāraṇī (the rentention of a spell).

    And so this atma is related to dharani.

    It is not an "ego", mental construct, is not an ego such as an attitude, but is not even its minute subtle components that are usually considered normal and healthy such as Apperception. Human ego-atma is denied, and the difference to a divine one is handled for instance in Lankavatara Sutra:

    Superficially, this denial of an Atman in persons and individual objects sounds negative and
    productive of no moral signification. But when one understands what is ultimately meant by
    Cittamatra (Mind-only) or by Vivikta-dharma (the Solitary), the negations are on the plane of
    relativity and intellection.

    Same idea or close as in Brihadaranyaka; it does not exist in a non-Absolute manner. Nevertheless, Atma, itself, may even be exalted:

    The Lanka is decidedly partial to the use of Aryajnana instead of Prajna, although the latter
    has been in use since the early days of Buddhism. Aryajnana, noble wisdom, is generally
    coupled with Pratyatma, inner self, showing that this noble, supreme wisdom is a mental
    function operating in the depths of our being. As it is concerned with the highest reality or the
    ultimate truth of things, it is no superficial knowledge dealing with particular objects and their

    This type of spiritual practice atma is shown in the following:

    He then sees the venerable Mahamati the Bodhisattva before each Buddha preaching
    about the spiritual discipline of one's inner life, and also sees [the Bodhisattva] surrounded by
    all the Yakshas and families and talking about names, words, phrases, and paragraphs." This
    last sentence is evidently the translation of the Sanskrit desanapathakatham, which is
    contrasted in the Lankavatara throughout with pratyatmaryajnanagocara (the spiritual realm
    realised by noble wisdom in one's inmost consciousness).

    It is an extension, like Granthi--Book to Yukti--Expounded, having to do with translating words to inner meaning, compared to "verbal instruction" here:

    It was asked of the Tathagatas of the past,
    who were Arhats, Fully-Enlightened Ones, and it was solved by them. Blessed One, now I ask
    of thee; [the request] will certainly be complied with by thee as far as verbal instruction is
    concerned. 1
    as it was by the Buddhas [of the past]. Blessed One, duality was discoursed upon
    by the Transformed Tathagatas and Tathagatas of Trans-formation, but not by the Tathagatas
    of Silence.
    The Tathagatas of Silence are absorbed in the blissful state of Samadhi, they do
    not discriminate concerning this state, nor do they discourse on it. Blessed One, thou
    assuredly wilt discourse on this subject of duality. Thou art thyself a master of all things, an
    Arhat, a Tathagata. The sons of the Buddha and myself are anxious to listen to it."

    1 That is, as far as the teaching could be conveyed in words. Desanapatha stands in contrast
    with siddhanta, or pratyatmagati in the Lankavatara.

    512. The unobtainable essence (alabdhatmaka) is indeed unborn, and yet it is nowhere
    separated from causation; nor are things as they are for this moment anywhere separated from

    Contra what it calls "theorizers" about atman:

    745. Those theorisers who are destitute of the principle are lost in the forest of Vijnanas;
    seeking to establish the theory of an ego-soul, they wander about here and there.

    746. The ego (atma) characterised with purity is the state of self-realisation; this is the
    Tathagata's womb (garbha) which does not belong to the realm of the theorisers.

    So it is the same underlying principle as in most esoteric views of Atma, but, it is comprehended and operated differently, such that Self is about the last name I would ever give it. Or, it is better untranslated. It is best to learn these "in context", such as right here, in Buddhist usage, you can get lost in vijnanas, which would be impossible in the Hindu usage as transcendent consciousness, or even "self realization" as translated here, which is more like Jnana in Buddhism. In general usage, jnana may just mean knowledge of mundane tasks. So in certain cases like this, the same language can be found to be used very differently. But overall, most of the principles from the Brihadaranyaka are also in Buddhism.
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    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    From practical perspective, I agree that both Yogacharya and Vedanta school of philosophy later turned to Buddhist Madhyamaka philosophical schools are ancient and intertwined.
    Very similar to Adi Shankara, who mainly quotes Chandogya Upanishad--810 times--more than anything else, in the cource of harnessing Adwaita to Shaktism.

    It has always interested me that most of this has revolved around debates. For example in the west in the Khazarian Empire which is labeled Jewish, it got that way by a debate between a Rabbi, a Catholic Priest, and an Islamic Cleric. In the emperor's opinion, there was no real winner, and he simply respected the Rabbi for having the oldest version.

    No Orthodox Priest was present, so, that view was unable to be provided.

    Similarly, Adi Shankara refuted every kind of Buddhist, except he never met one upholding the Nirakara view, or Shentong, which in modern analysis enables one to be accepted as a Hindu or Adwaita Yogi because it is about the same in the definition of Atma and Parabrahm, and by accepting an absolute mind that does not change from moment to moment.

    Quote The daughter of Narayana, is Mahalakshmi but also Annapurna as she manifests in the form of subtle food - annam- the light we eat.
    Lakshmi Tantra (ca. 9th-12th century) has it the other way around. According to Wiki, The Lakshmi Tantra attempts to "Hijack" Sakta Scripture Devi Mahatmya dedicated to Sri Chandika Mahadevi...but again that is from a quick reading, since this scripture also places Mahalakshmi as above/behind Durga, etc.

    The twelfth-century Adbhuta Ramayana is similar. Both of these more or less reverse everything against Narayan who was simply a sleeping figure awakened by Mahalakshmi.

    Even worse, Narayana was defeated one time making him ask Buddha for help, and what he was given was Mahamaya Vijayavahini Dharani, which then becomes something like a Buddhist Lakshmi refurbishing him.

    According to Ananda Sarasvati:

    The first mention of Goddess Mahalakshmi was found in 250 BC as Gajalakshmi, Lakshmi bedecked with jewellery seated on lotus and flanked by two white elephants, seen on stupas. These stupas were constructed by Emperor Ashoka in Sanchi and Bodh Gaya.

    Sounds odd, but you would call it Gajalakshmi by the form, and it may have been inscribed Mahalakshmi.

    In the principle of Golden Light, it is evident that she came from a prior planet or universe in what we call Jewel Family.

    The continuity you are mentioning to Annapurna I would agree is the ultimate manifestation or goal. It has multiple meanings from ordinary food or pregnancy to successful use of tantric energy to gift waves to the world.

    The Brihadaranyaka mentions two kinds of subtle food, and yes, food, sound, and light are sort of bundled together in the subject of Gnosis.

    Quote The cycle of samsara really is revolutions of this particular planet and solar system we are dealing with.
    In the sense of Time, sure.

    The Year or Samvat has a fairly occult definition from Brihadaranyaka that I did not copy over, and what is funny is that it is this occult year which is still used all over the world today, especially in terms of the days of the week and the twenty-four hours. The correspondences of these are of course also heavily detailed in western astrology and angelology, but, those lack the Parampara or living tradition of the fact that the eastern practices have never been completely broken.

    So when for example I started getting the hang of what Rahu and Ketu are, it was very animating, Sidereal Astrology seemed to have some kind of drive I was unaccustomed to. I don't really mean the charts, I mean those entities, and then if you start to look at what Jupiter actually is, it is extremely profound, and so on.

    A strange "crossover" of Jupiter is that its syllable, Brim, is also the seed for Cintamani Tara Fruitpicker Vasudhara:

    She uses the basic Tara mantra; Cintamani is an old name for Jewel Family. Taranatha says she should be in dancing mudra. As in IWS 138, she is crowned with Ratnasambhava, and comes from the lineage of Ratnaraksita. The Fruit should be a Picula, which is a tantric bindu, can be peeled/opened to reveal colors--not exactly a gem as in many texts.

    You can make a samaya to her in this Yoga view. It also is written up in a self-generation sadhana. This is probably the most basic Jewel Family Tara, suggesting perhaps Lakshmi used to be from Jupiter. Hard to say right now. Obviously this one is quite simple, and just happens to have a gazillion things under its hood.

    If I tried to describe what goes on between here and Mercury, it would be dizzifying. Syllables shift around, and the relations of the deities are a bit strange...

    May samsara be purified.
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    Quote Posted by Gekko (here)

    Yes, to some extent or other.

    The article does not reach the conclusion that the meaning of Right Hand is that South is the direction of Yama or Death, and so the right hand is supposed to be a shield/barrier against it.

    Almost everything we have represents some transgression of orthodoxy.

    A few temples still sacrifice animals. I suppose it does not seem like a big deal if you already slaughter animals all day, what would be the difference in doing one there. Nevertheless, we are all going to make a pile of dead meat some day, which is closer to what most of the meditations would deal with.

    Most of what I experience is not for the faint of heart.

    There is no way I would tell everything I know to an eight-year-old kid, and I suppose there is a reason to have rated R or X material that isn't exactly dangling in the market square.

    As to what exactly Vamacara may be, and/or one's relation to it, nothing is forced.

    As to how we have it, in the main, it is in Mahacina Krama Tara, which links back to Blue Lotus or i. e. Pushkara as recently discussed.

    I just noticed in a dharani of the similar Arya Ugra Tara Ekajati, it is given like a Sutra with an audience, among whom is:

    mārīcī parṇu sāmakī pāṇurā tatā||

    Parnu = leaf, samaki = covered in, panu = adored/worshipped, as if now Marici has a touch of Parnasabari like Sarasvati appears to have in Golden Light Sutra.

    If one understands Mamos, that is what we are really trying to harness/convert, and they are not hard to find, and they are not easy to do.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    I posted something about Cintamani Tara because she looks like the most basic Tara in Jewel Family.

    I am not sure if it needs correcting. In a lot of these dialects, B = V, such as Benza or Bajra = Vajra, and so on. In this case, the original spelled her bija syllable as Vrim, and I auto-corrected it.

    This may be erroneous because in the Sanskrit original of the same subject from Practice Manual of Kurukulla, it is just Vrm, here in the translation:

    Through the method of worship in accordance with the Dharma,
    One will attain dharmatā
    And oneself will become the dharmadhātu.
    That shall now be correctly explained.7
    Now follows the practice method of the wish-fulfilling tree:

    One should visualize, arising from the syllable vṛm,8
    A wish-fulfilling tree.
    As a transformation of the utpala,
    It should be visualized to the left.
    A rain of various riches
    Falls from the middle of the sky,
    And so fulfills wishes and desires.
    The one who meditates like this becomes the Lord of Wealth.
    The sentient beings of the four continents
    One must summon through light rays of the mind
    And so generously provide them
    With the gifts that consist of the seven jewels:
    The jewel of the foremost teacher,
    The jewel born from the sea,
    The jewel of a woman, the jewel of a horse,
    The jewel of a sword,
    The jewel of an elephant‍—such jewels
    Should be offered mentally to the buddhas.
    The jewel of a woman, adorned with ornaments
    And displaying abundant attractions, [F.32.a]
    Should always be offered to the buddhas
    By those who wish for the fruit of buddhahood.
    Through this all buddhas
    And knowledge holders will be achieved.
    Replete with his treasures
    A foremost teacher, a lord of wealth,
    Should be offered to the buddhas.
    By those who wish for the fruit of buddhahood.
    When likewise the other jewels
    Are respectfully surrendered
    One will turn into Vajradharma
    And so become the benefactor of all beings.
    This was the practice method of the wish-fulfilling tree.

    But we can look at the similar Jupiter mantra and see Brim overwritten or replaced by Vrim.

    In Narada Purana, Vrim is Camunda.

    In Lakshmi Tantra, Vrm is Vrddhi.

    Mahanirvana Tantra uses Vrim as the ninth Dikpala.

    Kurukulla calls the Wish-fulfilling tree a Kalpavrksa, and so chances are the syllable stands for Vrksa or Tree and would be Vrm.

    In Sanskrit, they may be equivalents spelled either way:

    Vṛṃh (वृंह्).—bṛṃh BṚṂH, i. 1, [Parasmaipada.] 1. To grow, to increase.

    as a common noun, Lakshmi's attendant is:

    1) Vṛddhi (वृद्धि):—Growth, Increase; gain

    The longer Cintamani sadhana we found may be non-scriptural; here is a similar Blue Tara one that sequentially uses Bhim and Vrim as if they were different spellings, and then they say both syllables pierce and cut, but also "cover", which is a possible etymology of vrks for Vrksa or Tree. But otherwise either spelling seems to mean growth.

    The transmitter of the basic Cintamani visualization is Ratnaraksita, a Nepalese or Newari Maha Pandita who also transmitted Kalachakrayana and Six Limb Yoga. The Yoga is also attributed to Savaripa, under whom Vibhutichandra attained the fourth stage or Dharana in Kathmandu.

    There is:

    A Study on Ratnaraksita and A Japanese Translation of his Ganacakravidhicintamani [in Japanese].

    Ratnaraksita's Padmini

    Ratnaraksita's commentary on the consecration section of the Samvarodaya Tantra

    Explanation of Vastu Naga (cf. Three Mountains Seven Rivers)

    Ratnaraksita translated Akashagarbha Sutra and Surangama Sutra into Tibetan.

    Buddhism in Nepal says he left Vikramasila two years ahead of the Moslem advance due to a vision of it.

    IWS 138 for Cintamani adds an All-purpose mantra with Dhanam Me Dehi. Or you can replace "dhanam" with something you need. She emanates countless replicas which assuage the suffering of poverty. In Taranatha's version, the seed syllable is spelled Brim.

    Her Tibetan name is:

    Yid bzhin Norbu

    It is supposed to be the straightforward translation of Wish Fulfilling Gem.

    That or its equivalent is the first of Seven Treasures, which is excerpted in "The Practice of Dzogchen". Seven Treasures is by Lonchenpa in twenty-two chapters, later commented by Mipham.

    Sometimes I am not sure the publishers have their mantras right. "Dehi" mostly is just a corporeal body, or, a rampart. "Dhana" however seems to have a "family shift" kind of meaning. It is "treasure", but, not much like money, it is personal qualities and morals and so on up to the kind of pulchritude of beauty and well-being represented by Jewel Family, which has more of the meaning of giving away money. And then the Treasure itself is the domain of Lakshmi and quickly presents itself as Nidhi or buried/hidden treasure, which means by the Yakshas, whereby it begins to acquire a similar meaning as "treasure of Kubera". Although this may have to do with the legend of Venkateswara, again it does not necessarily mean giving money to that temple. Because Yaksha is an original theme in the stories of Buddha personally, in the Sutras such as Golden Light, and then in the tantras as a sort of judge of the graveyards, this is what it is getting at. And so that is adding Karma Family.

    And so the "Yellow Tara" who seems to be presenting herself as the most basic Jewel Family devi easily has many skins or onion layers, she is not necessarily trivial just because the sadhana has no complexity. And when we go through the history and see how difficult it may have been to even attain the Fourth Yoga, Dharana, until spending time at the feet of a Mahasiddha, that is why I think most of us are not really doing it yet.

    After that in the fifth stage, you would experience Luminous Mind, in a way like standing firmly on the ground of it. Because I, personally, have done this, I agree it is not a theory, but, can I do it now, no. It would take time and different circumstances.

    What she has is much like Kaustubha, mani, cintamani, or ratna.

    On the one hand it is a male seed and a bit Lord-of-the-Rings:

    It represents pure consciousness shining in all its luminous manifestations. It was said by Lord Brahma, Lord Shiva and all other devthas that nobody in the universe except Lord Vishnu could handle the brilliance and magnificence of this "Mani", since it could corrupt the bearer by infusing in them with a greed to carry it forever.

    There, at least, is the sin of Jewel Family, greed.

    Its origin is as old as Ramayana.

    kaustubha which means treasure-of-the-ocean.

    yena sūryāgni vāk candra tejas āsvasvarūpiṇā |
    vartate kaustubhākhyaṃ taṃ pravadantīśamāninaḥ ||

    That by which the Sun, fire, speech and moon shine in their particular forms That is the form of consciousness known as the gem Kaustubha. (G.u.t.Up 54.)

    ātmānamasya jagato nirlepamaguṇāmalam |
    bibhartti kaustubhamaṇi svarūpaṃ bhagavān hariḥ ||

    The Glorious Hari wears the pure soul of the world, immaculate and free of negative qualities as the Kaustubha gem. (V.P. 1;22;67.)

    kaustubha avyapadeśena svātmajyotir bibharyajaḥ |

    What He wears as the jewel Kaustubha is the pure Jiva-consciousness. (S.B. 12.11.10)

    This total consciousness which is the “World-Soul” known in Vedānta as hiraṇyagarbha (golden matrix) pure, subtle and unstained is the chest-jewel named Kaustubha. This gem is comprised of the totality of the consciousness of all living beings, born from the causal ocean, and it is the enjoyer of material creation.

    In Astrology, Jewels may be of Heaven, Earth, or the Underworld; the first two heavenly ones are Kaustubha and Cintamani, blue and white. Kaustubh Mani has a deep blue colour like a blue lotus and a radiance equal to the sun. It was obtained during the churning of the sea. Followed by white, brilliant, and golden ones.

    So, this, and Varuni, emerge from the Ocean of Milk. The actual fruit that Cintamani has, is not really described, and it is perhaps with the similar Red Cunda Tara that it becomes opened, because she specifically is holding above her knee a picula fruit yellow inside, blue on the surface. The tree that Cintamani plucks also comes from the Ocean of Milk, where it is said to have diamond fruit.

    It has an artistic history:

    Ornamental Kalpavriksha design was a feature that was adopted on the reverse of the coins and sculptures in the Gupta period.

    Kalpavriksha is also dated to the Dharmachakra period of Buddhism. The paintings of this period depicting the tree with various branches and leaves have a female figure painted on its top part. The female figure is painted from mast upwards holding a bowl in her hand. Similar depiction of female figure with tree representing it as presiding deity was a notable feature during the Sunga period as seen in the image of "Salabhanvka" in the railing pillars.

    The oldest known relic of it is from the 3rd century B. C. E.:

    The tree has a kalash or a pot full of coins, a sack tied with a string, a conch, and a lotus hanging from it, signifying the goddess of wealth or Lakshmi devi.

    Satya Sai Baba has a good response to these three, the Cow, the Gem, and the Tree. He says they are fruits of Tapas each with a corresponding Siddhi: Kalpavrksa realizes what you wished for, Kamadhenu transcends desire, and then Cinta Siddhi has to do with stopping anxiety or stopping the thinking process altogether, and then Ananda is won. From that root, there is not much way to call it "wish fulfilling gem". But you could look at it in the view of purity and perfection of form and maybe it is like that. Again when he says Tapas then to us it means cultivating the practice that Dharana would be a sustained retention of. And so if you have ways to meditate on Tara, you can do a whole lot of those, before you will ever have Dharana on one of them, which you can mostly train on a Dharani basis. I can take this Jewel Family Tara, with those Mayuri and Lakshmi Sutras and dharanis related to yakshas, golden light, and other worlds, into Vasudhara, until eventually Vajra Tara would work, which again is considered non-dual Highest Yoga Tantra on the level of any of them.

    It will force a Quintessence since one of the primary meanings of the Family is Use of All Families Equally.

    This basic Tara form does not really end, but, you could say, "transfers". Picula is similar to a plum. Jamari Vasudhara of the Dharani according to H. H. 7th Panchen, the compiler of IWS, has both this Picula and the Corn from her Ila Devi form.

    Vasudhara's other basic form is Gopali with the Kamadhenu, so, she is already dealing with those three things Sai Baba said. I am not saying he is wrong. They are pretty close to the same. Vasudhara is a breakaway hypostasis mainly from Ila--Gopali--Manohara into Bharati. Ila is also "recruited", so to speak, as the first Namasangiti Dharani goddess, Vasumati Mahalakshmi.

    Ocean of Milk is a relatively peaceful, Jewel-like scene contra the cemeteries and/or Mahesvara, those perhaps being the two most operative legends within tantra.

    If the tree or its fruit are not specified, you can determine your own. But symbolicly it probably is closest to Bindu. It may be a part of the jewel tree in the case:

    Cintāmaṇi (चिन्तामणि).—A diamond. This was salvaged from the ocean of milk along with other precious items like Airāvata, Uccaiḥṣravas, Kalpavṛkṣa, Kaustubha, Candra, Apsaras, Mahālakṣmī, Tārā, and Rumā. (Yuddha Kāṇḍa, Kaṃpa Rāmāyaṇa).

    Cintamani is Jewel Family in Guhyasamaja, and in the Buddhist sense, it refers to different groups of jewels up to nine, the planets:

    Navaratna (नवरत्न).—According to the ancient “Jataka Parijata”, chap. 2, sloka 21 compiled by Sri Vaidyanatha Dik****ar, these gems must be high-born and flawless:

    Ruby (manikya) for Surya (Sun),
    Pearl (muktaphala) for Chandra (Moon),
    Red Coral (vidruma) for Mangala (Mars),
    Emerald (marakata) for Budha (Mercury),
    Yellow sapphire (pushparaja) for Bṛhaspati (Jupiter),
    Diamond (vajra) for Shukra (Venus),
    Blue sapphire (nila) for Shani (Saturn),
    Hessonite (gomeda) or Rahu (the ascending lunar node)
    Cat's Eye (vaidurya) for Ketu (the descending lunar node).

    So far, the most basic definition would seem to suggest that Cintamani Tara is handing out a Vajra for Venus, but, you have two things here. A whole lot of leeway as to what it actually is, and, a sort of pass-me-not stance with respect to Jewel Family. Because she is Tara, she is not hard to access because she responds to the same mantra. She just looks different and has a syllable in her heart. The Taranatha version is so small, it is "appearance only", arising in space, "standing gracefully in dancing mudra". The other version has a few mechanics and says she "stands in graceful posture". The simple version shows "fruit" and "Brim" and the second one shows "gem" and "Vrim".

    Now, if she was a Puranic descent from Jupiter, and, she gave us a Vajra, and, it was for Venus, that is what we would symbolicly want her to do anyway. To us, the Jupiterian Rta that is being dealt with has much more to do with natural law than it does to literal priestcraft running multiple rituals every day in a sanctified environment. At that point, Lakshmi or Venus is more effective as the Human Guru, Jupiter being for Devas.

    The book possibly misprinted "Dehi" where the similar Dhanada mantra says "Dhanam Me Dada", which is the one saying give me wealth. Following the yaksha theme about hidden things, when correspondingly activating earth and underworld goddesses, it enhances Bliss and leads to Sambhogakaya.

    By name, Dhanada Tara is a Prajnaparamita-esque goddess who is supposed to be crowned by Amoghasiddhi, which is obvious here, just like on the misidentified stonework of, I believe it was, Parnasabari:

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