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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Sva Rama, pleasure in oneself is one's form.

    With pleasure in oneself is one's form being the entire thing, svaramasvarūpaṃ, right?

    Yes, again this is like the first dichotomy of Yogacara is that most traditional Buddhists refused to listen to anything other than a Tri-kaya. And so it was a bit disturbing that such a thing as a "fourth" kaya, Svabhavikakaya, was even mentioned.

    Well, it means the basic arising of Vajrasattva: Prajna-Upaya. And so we have noted that this is a kernel which takes off through the sadhanas, and increases to Karuna and Sukha and so forth.

    And so yes, these sadhanas consistently give you a Sva Rupa or Sva Bhava, and Atma is the consistent term for self-identification or self-knowledge or experience. The words say Atma this that or the other and you follow it until you become it.

    Here, Rama is like Ramate which is Remati, who is a Palden Lhamo in Tibet. Those roots all mean sportive, playful, and is not necessarily a precise identity, which as a name often would be Rama Chandra, but possibly Bala Rama, or Parasu Rama. And so the sadhana is not really saying "you have turned into the Rama avatar of Vishnu", it is a quality or feeling you have gained which has an "entirety" to it.




    Quote I have heard of the Maya Jala tantras, they are Nyingma?
    No. These all come from Sanskrit originals.

    Guhyagarbha Tantra is Vajrasattva Maya Jala.

    Several others are Vairocana Maya Jala.

    There is Padma Jala and Padma Jalini.

    Sadhanamala has a Mayajala Krama Avalokiteshvara, and a Maya Jala Mahayoga Kurukulla. Namasangiti Manjushri incorporates it in parallel, because he uses things like the entire Vajradhatu system by way of expecting you to learn it elsewhere.

    Quote There are certain 'visions' or inner things, which when one is younger seem very scary or maybe repulsive, and seem like they would suck you in and you'd never escape with your sanity. When older, something makes one shove right into them one time for some reason, and they lose this threatening quality and vanish as obstacles. I think that is what happened along the line.
    Well, that kind of describes what I am doing, since I am more like a battering ram, and I have to deal with someone who has the hesitancy. But that is in terms of outer karma. If I could adjust this, my subtle body would work better.







    Quote svaramaNDala kind of vINA or stringed musical instrument
    So that even while svarama means do enjoy or delight in oneself, it is also a kind of vina music somehow.
    I am pretty sure that is Svara Mandala, Circle of Notes, I think it basically means the scales, which is close enough to a vina.

    The phrase from the sadhana could perhaps be Svara Ma Svarupa or something like "make music my form".

    Bhattacharya took no notice of Vajravina other than the fact she plays music. However she uses five vowels for Nyasa, associated with the skandhas in a non-specific manner, aside from the fact they are pretty much always given in the same order. In this case it appears it may insulate celibacy. Nevertheless it employs Sukhasana.

    So she is a minor moon, since Kurukulla has eight vowels and Nairatma has sixteen.

    The context of her use of Rama is the very end of the sadhana:

    idaṃ hi cakraṃ kavirājatārthibhir
    niṣevitavyaṃ varṣārdham udyataiḥ /
    niṣevyamāṇaṃ svaramasvarūpaṃ
    samarpayiṣyatyacirādatulyam //

    Most instances of the grammar are just a noun stuck to svarupam, such as bodhicittasvarupam, or sugatasvarupam, which says to me the whole "Svarama" should be a noun on its own. And it would come out as Playful-Own-Nature or something close to that.

    What is also intriguing is that the beginning of her piece is conversant with "Picu" terminology, and increases Prajna, then it increases Medha, and then it appears to increase Buddhi, and we see precious little mention of Buddhi in the lore of Buddhism. Manjushri has Buddhi Siddhi, and Kurukulla has a little bit. Aside from Picu, its most noticeable appearance is that Vajra Sarasvati deals with a Maha Buddhi Bija.

    Vajravina next refers to Sugata Mantra, whereby Sugata is like Tathagata except it means Thusly-Gone-to-Bliss.

    And this enters Prajna Tattva or Prajna Element of Reality and makes her the source of dominion in the throat center:

    dharmapādaṃ praṇamyādau prajñātattvopadeśakam /
    sārasvatam idaṃ vakṣye cakraṃ lokahitodayam //

    She also uses Am Bija but does not seem to have a mantra. Certainly one of the shorter practices.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote That is why Drum Dakinis are a higher or more energetic class, Buddhadakinis, usually having four arms.
    Does this apply to the small damaru drums as well?

    Quote Jnanagni is that fire which dissipates the karma of karmic wind, which is the Red Aura around Vajra Tara and others. It involves the sacrifice of fruit of action, i. e. even the "good" parts are no longer "yours", you offer it all back to the deity. Vajra Tara's articles begin with "homa karma".
    The book I'm reading on Dream Yoga talks about 'karmic traces' or 'karmic shadows'. Is this related to this karmic wind at all, or are they different things?

    Quote Since Parasunya is the correct medieval or Sanskrit name for Shentong, and, it has a virtually identical meaning in strands of Nath or Saivism, then we should not have much difficulty with it deified as Annapurna.
    But doesn't Annapurna connote plenty? Parasunya is a kind of emptiness, no?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Here, Rama is like Ramate which is Remati, who is a Palden Lhamo in Tibet. Those roots all mean sportive, playful, and is not necessarily a precise identity
    Thanks for this, I was having a hard time running down what kind of "feeling good" this meant in the whole phrase. I did find out that 'svarama' was also a type of vina.

    Quote Well, that kind of describes what I am doing, since I am more like a battering ram, and I have to deal with someone who has the hesitancy. But that is in terms of outer karma. If I could adjust this, my subtle body would work better.
    I think what I was describing is more like being what the battering ram batters. Something shoves you where you were reluctant to go and you find out your worries about it were nothing.

    Quote And it would come out as Playful-Own-Nature or something close to that.
    Or, if svarama is a reference to a kind of lute, it could indicate the lute was her nature.

    Quote What is also intriguing is that the beginning of her piece is conversant with "Picu" terminology, and increases Prajna, then it increases Medha, and then it appears to increase Buddhi, and we see precious little mention of Buddhi in the lore of Buddhism.
    This is true, isn't it? There is very little mention of Buddhi in Buddhism.

    I had a very not-self night, at one point churning in bliss, at another blazing in fire. I then had a very powerful dream after, and woke and was unable to connect up between dreaming and shaking. But the first part, when i dissolved not once but three times and the first one was this kind of maelstrom thing, there was even while that went on (on the other side of the dissolve) no way to hold on to any kind of self.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    That is why Drum Dakinis are a higher or more energetic class, Buddhadakinis, usually having four arms.

    Does this apply to the small damaru drums as well?
    Yes. Same kind used by Dakinis, Vira Vajradharma, Padmasambhava, and quite a few of the female Mahasiddhas.

    A "basic" dakini usually has Vajravarahi's items, Kartri and Bowl. Then, following the normal principle, they change or gain attributes.

    In the tantras, the levels or progression are:

    Jnanadakini + Yogambara or Vajrasattva, Buddhadakini + Mahamaya, Sarvabuddha Dakini (Varnani, Cinnamasta)


    Jnanadakini is a tantric authoress, she is a transmitted lineage parallel of the most exalted type of "sixth principle" goddess we can muster, who is allowed different identities in Dakini Jala, whether Jnana Dakini, Vajravarahi, or another that fits appropriately, is allowed. If someone wanted a basic one then we have Sadaksari, the female Avalokiteshvara from the beginning of Sadhanamala. She will just immediately give you the whole Six Family system, and, we can show that it is intended to be convertible into female forms in a Guhya Vajradhatu type process, or, more particularly, as female Bodhisattvas. And we have learned not exactly to worship Buddha for being majestic, but, to cherish Bodhisattvas, since they are the source of Buddhahood, as well as the eminences or teachers to human beings. Tara, for the most part, is Bodhisattva-class entities. So it should be obvious why a "system of Tara" such as that at Ratnagiri can be used equivalently to Vajradhatu as normally practiced.


    Quote The book I'm reading on Dream Yoga talks about 'karmic traces' or 'karmic shadows'. Is this related to this karmic wind at all, or are they different things?
    If it means appearances, then it means if we make monsters in the astral light, they will be there waiting for us. Sounds like thoughtforms.

    "Residue" or "seeds", etc., refers to unspent energy that one has stashed without ever dealing with it.

    We have to spend it, and, this is what we are trying to spend "colorlessly", unaffected by personality or skandhas.

    Wind is an active motion like a habit. Some people are almost entirely consumed by subconscious habit. Think of "Restless Leg" syndrome. Where are they going? Unfinished business.

    The threat of it to the meditator is, let's say you calmed your system, but then if your legs feel...like you should pace around aimlessly, then wind tries to move them, and the mind will become agitated by unfinished business.

    Ideally, you should zap it out with Bliss. If you do not have that, it is still possible to become completely calm, which may help you get Bliss.



    Quote But doesn't Annapurna connote plenty? Parasunya is a kind of emptiness, no?
    Bingo.

    Parasunya "has no natures other than its own". If I admit a Svabhavikakaya and roam about cultivating Rama and all these other qualities associated to it, then, by exclusive definition, none of them could be Parasunya, or anything like it.

    The Annapurna is its "own-nature" that it "has".

    Om Purnam Adah Purnam Idam
    Purnas Purnat Udacyate
    Purnasya Purnamadaya
    Purnam Eva Vasisyate

    From the fullness of void issue infinite universes, back into the fullness of void dissolve infinite universes, fullness remains unchanged.

    And so from that state you return to rain nectar over the world and offer for the welfare of all.

    Again, it is like holding "both schools" in that there is something that is so empty, so neti neti, that I really just don't talk about it much, although perhaps Laya or Zero is accurate. At the same time, there is something so perfect which emerges in unconditional orgasmic bliss, that we as practitioners do not remain in the stillness, but try to give out what we can, into manifestation.

    Tri-kaya Vajrayogini says to accomplish *both* Illusory *and* Vajra bodies, and so she is talking about a blissful form, as well as the perfect recognition of deathly silence:







    Her Tri-kaya starts at the navel with a Red Sun Disk with Dharmodaya upon which is a Lotus with a tawny red triangle having four chakras. This has a Yellow Hrim and Yellow Vajrayogini in the central channel. The attendants guard the Solar and Lunar nerves. The four chakras (pleasing seat) and three paths are the residence of Sarvabuddhadakini Trikayavajrayogini standing in Pratyalidha. With Green Vajravarnani and Yellow Vajravairocani, whose hands and feet are reversed. One praises and refers to no longer dwelling in the Six Realms, being abandoned by Mara, fulfill Illusory and Vajra bodies and gain all siddhis. You dissolve her lights, and resolve to be Vajrasattva and achieve Mahamudra. This is from Virupa.


    If we tried to take Annapurna literally, I would not believe her, Kashi--Benares and Ganges are horridly polluted, hunger has not exactly disappeared in India, and so at best, she just is not manifested the way she should be.

    To show her place in the eight main phases of Homa, here we go. I have retracted most of the details so we just get an idea of the framework. This is based on a grand ceremony which can last one to three days. I am trying to approach it as something you might do on New Year's or something like that. Each section is a major sadhana and it relies on the Fires which we will ignore for the time being, other than the general idea.

    It is still a Buddhist continuation of the same Agni Vaisvanara of Janaka and Sita Vaideha of Mithila, which is heavily characterized by Brihadaranyaka Upanishad.



    (1) Purification and Lighting of the Fireplace

    One meditates on Samayagni.

    Om Vaisvanaraya Vidhmahe Lalelaya Dhimahi Tanno Agni Pracodayat

    Om Let us know Him who burns inside of us, let us meditate (and absorb His energy) to Him with the 7 tongues, may Agni inspire and guide us.

    Conjuring Agni from Ram (Hrum), you unite three fires: stomach, bindu, terrestrial. Place into fire the consciousness of Vahni: Om Hrum, before the consciousness of Vahni I bow! Terrestrial in this sense means ritual fire (Ahavaniya, presence of Samsya and Saharaksa).


    (2) Fire Offering to the Fire God Agni

    In the Agnyahuti, meditate on Jnanagni. Then unite Jnanagni to Samayagni. Then draw them into the body into the Sesahuti.

    When Ahamkara is burned in Jnanagni, the person becomes Nandi. Sacred form of Taurus.


    (3) Fire Offering to the Main Deity

    Then start with Akshobya ritual.



    (4) Bali Offering and Worship of Holy Places

    Then Devatahuti, fire offering of grain and butter. Followed by hundred syllable mantra. First esoteric sacrifice is the Soma offering.


    Brihadaranyaka Pavamana (Soma) mantra:

    „Om Asatoma Sadgamaya,
    Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya,
    Mrityorma Amritamgamaya,
    Om Shanti, Shanti, Shantihi.”

    Unreal to Real, Darkness to Light, Death to Immortality, Om Shanti.


    (5) Purification of Disciples

    Then 1,000 offerings, Sahasrahutihoma. Brass plate with barley and red cloth.

    Without knowing any better, we are going to do an Inner Homa of 1,000 Lights Ceremony in Brahma Randra, and, using our seven head colors, insert Vajra Danda into Higher Yoni and elevate on Three in One Fire.

    Second esoteric sacrifice of King Moon.


    (6) Filling the Fireplace with Offerings

    Purnahuti.

    pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ
    pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate|
    pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
    pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate||

    The priest of the ceremony recites the particular mantra and says "Svaha", which means, "we offer". "I offer worship to Bhagwan Swaminarayan, also known as Nilkanth Varni. As Shrihari, together with Aksharbrahma, He is glorious. He is the God of all gods, the son of Bhakti and Dharma and has the supreme divine form".

    We stay in Maha Sunya and third esoteric sacrifice is nectar of Tvastr rains on Talu.

    This is called the Deity Agni entering the body.

    We achieve Maha-sunya in the Tri-svabhava because the first fixed fire has No Essence. The second has Suchness, the third Paramartha.

    To dissolve the voids, our Paramartha flies through Suchness into No Essence of Parikalpita. This is what we have to hold steadily and expand until it culminates and hold that steady. The sun is no longer the radiant sun, but its soft luminousness of dawn.

    Tvastr's nectar comes from the secret Water Vajra Sikhin Vaidyuta, who turns out to be Garuda Thunderbird Senya:




    Can be gold, female, charioteer of dawn; it is the brother of our charioteer. It is any vajra up to the extent of Vishnu's Chakra. This is heavily archaeologically examined, and presented with some of our same information in an Homage to Hindu civilization.


    (7) Offering the Remainders of Oblations

    Sesahuti, offering of remainders. Fourth esoteric sacrifice of rain into Food or Anna Purna.

    We emerge slowly and methodically by specific imaginations instead of random, uncontrolled. There will be a few Wars in Heaven and we will do a few incarnations of Vishnu as the layers of form and oridinary waking consciousness are restored.

    Anna Purna sloka:

    annapūrṇe sadāpūrṇe śaṅkaraḥ prāṇavallabhe ।
    jñāna vairāgya siddhyarthaṃ bhikṣāṃ dehi ca pārvatī ॥


    (8) Sending forth the Gods

    Finally Visarjana or sending forth the devas. Formal dismissal. Fifthly seed may be esoterically offered to a woman. If done, that kind of seed is supposed to be offered in a ritual way, Lata Sadhana, that aspect of the Path called Vira Chara.

    "Sending forth" is perhaps similar to Ganapati's "sending away" by Gauri.

    So I have compressed most of the tantric concept to the point where we can see the sketch of an Inner Homa is really to use Soma and to penetrate the void as deeply as possible and experience Nectar, or Abhisambodhi Sequence, Dissolution, etc., and after it passes our Talu or throat, then it becomes "rain", i. e. it will definitely work on our body and if we are any good at magic it will work in the world, Annapurna.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Or, if svarama is a reference to a kind of lute, it could indicate the lute was her nature.

    Yes, that could certainly be so. If it means "lute" it may perhaps be calling it "instrument that is pleasurable to play". It would be a colloquialism, unlike Sarod which means a particular kind of lute. I am less confident in my ability to figure out ordinary words than in showing how mantras work.

    Quote This is true, isn't it? There is very little mention of Buddhi in Buddhism.
    Mostly in the Picu ethos, where we should say Sarasvati wears white because it is cotton, and then we soon get to Weaver Caste, which seems to have a lot to do with the fluidity of tantric practice across the hinterlands from Orissa to Assam and Princess Bhrkuti.

    It is hard to mention because it is like an intelligence "before words" which only has meritorious qualities. I suppose it has Metta, Mudita, Karuna, Upekka. Sometimes the Puranas seem clinical in talking about it. I don't think simply listing it as "a sheath" does it justice. Comparing it to Tapar Loka might. An unfathomably deep ocean from which arises this wonderful condition. I do not think you can access it by mere force of discipline, it is to be found in the Path with Heart.

    Because this hypostasis uses Dhi syllable, it is in:

    Medha

    Samadhi

    Buddhi

    Dhyana being its most direct expression. However, this is a very compunding, melding syllable. One could probably say Manjushri and Sarasvati both have a way of extending Dhi to Dhih, and then they get together. If you look at Manjushri mantras, you can easily find the perhaps-Khotanese Arapacana saying A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhi. And so it is like invoking this whole lost northwestern legacy into a syllable that is "synonymous to or indicates" samadhi, even though the word does not start with it.

    These deities penetrate languages using Sanskrit.

    They intend for you to do philosophical study or Upacara such as this, studying mystical information and ingesting it into what we do. They want you to get the Prajnaparamita mantra especially and follow it as well as you can.


    And so I think of this as the first Muttering Deity, is Prajnaparamita and Sarasvati, is a refined and the refining of consciousness.

    Once we meet her, she is permanently present at the Homa, since you are still encouraged to follow the traditional way and invite the Three, Ila, Bhu, and Sarasvati.

    Lakshmi is a different class of goddess, since she requires the establishment of Sarasvati and her Fire by Friction or mantras and music, and a house or sacred environment. And so Ila and Bhu mean that for us, it is the Path of Vasudhara, and subsequently there are other Lakshmis such as Mahalakshmi and Mahasri.


    A maelstrom sounds like Marut Gana.

    Dream or Svapna is a somewhat common subject in Sadhanamala, often in the usage Svapna Maya, but there is also such a thing as:

    svapnendrajālasadṛśāḥ

    which appears to be Svapna Indra Jala Sadarsah. Sthiracakra and Vadiraj have this.

    Vajravarahi is Vidya of Indra Jala. So there is another tantric Net tucked away by it being obscure.


    I was probably also wrong about handling Mrtyuvacana's Upacara as "access concentration", since, according to Ganapatya:

    Upacāra (उपचार) refers to a “certain sequence of items” used during the worship of a deity (pūjā).—More elaborate types of worship consist of an offering complete with a certain sequence of items (upacāra),each one being accompanied by the recitation of certain mantras. Such types of pūjās may vary from 16 items to 108 or even more. As a rule, the name of a pūjā is often given according to the number of items that are being offered, that is, pañcopacāra-pūjā (5 five items), ṣoḍaśopacāra-pūjā (16 items), and so on.

    Since she has literally that--Pancopacara Puja--then it is probably referring to Five Offerings ending in Navediye or Food.

    It, also, in a specifically Buddhist context as a stand-alone word, refer to the precursor of Samadhi as defined by the teachings. This would still be...pretty similar...to how it is defined in a ritual, to the extent such ritual is translated internally.

    It is probably also more accurate that she is targeting Parasunya at what is ordinarily called Emptiness Mantra:

    oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham

    which is probably the most powerful tool of a disciple. The Purity Mantra is, so to speak, cleaning everything "into" Emptiness, whereas this one is the Void Gnosis itself, i. e. it has Dawned to you, you are Face to Face.

    This mantra is probably used in any school, but, Mrtyuvacana is teaching it as Parasunya, while she is teaching about Death. What she says about it is in reference to the eight entities including Manmatha:

    apy akhaṇḍitaromāgro mṛtyuṃ jayati muktavat //

    Akhandita is "uninterrupted" and the second half is difficult.

    I see Aro (Lotus Family) Umaga (appearing or coming to light), not because it seems like the most perfect match, but nothing really matches that. Whatever it is, leads to liberation by conquering death.

    Because Lotus Family has something to do with this, Aro would make sense here.

    However, Romagra is a measurement, eight Romagras (tip of a coarse heir) make one louse egg.

    So it probably just means "all of your fine particles without exception" are liberated by conquering death.

    The phrase is not found elsewhere, although Vajra Tara has:

    apyakhaṇḍitaromātmā

    which would be something like "every last hair without exception".

    The typist maybe was not the best; in one version, there is "Brahmedra" which would be an unusual combination involving Venus, but the other version plainly has "Brahmendra", so, Brahma, Indra, and others up to Manmatha. It seems to be interjecting them between Tara mantra and the Eight Fears, as if perhaps they are the true identities of the fears she quells.
    Last edited by shaberon; 1st March 2021 at 10:04.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote If it means appearances, then it means if we make monsters in the astral light, they will be there waiting for us. Sounds like thoughtforms.

    "Residue" or "seeds", etc., refers to unspent energy that one has stashed without ever dealing with it.
    The author was talking about strong experiences that leave a trace that affects behavior going forward by causing "grasping or aversion". I was just wondering if karmic winds were related.

    Quote The threat of it to the meditator is, let's say you calmed your system, but then if your legs feel...like you should pace around aimlessly, then wind tries to move them, and the mind will become agitated by unfinished business.

    Ideally, you should zap it out with Bliss. If you do not have that, it is still possible to become completely calm, which may help you get Bliss.
    This does sound more like what he was talking about. In shaking, bliss is either an overall problem (started shaking with no bliss for some reason) or not a problem at all.

    Quote If we tried to take Annapurna literally, I would not believe her, Kashi--Benares and Ganges are horridly polluted, hunger has not exactly disappeared in India, and so at best, she just is not manifested the way she should be.
    Is this something that she could/would do something about? She may not be manifested the way she should be because of the way people treat what she offers.

    Quote So I have compressed most of the tantric concept to the point where we can see the sketch of an Inner Homa is really to use Soma and to penetrate the void as deeply as possible and experience Nectar, or Abhisambodhi Sequence, Dissolution, etc., and after it passes our Talu or throat, then it becomes "rain", i. e. it will definitely work on our body and if we are any good at magic it will work in the world, Annapurna.
    So this is sort of an "as within, so without" concept.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Yes, that could certainly be so. If it means "lute" it may perhaps be calling it "instrument that is pleasurable to play". It would be a colloquialism, unlike Sarod which means a particular kind of lute.
    Or it could mean the quality (expensiveness, size, whatever) of a lute, that the lute she carries is one which one would use to play for self enjoyment, rather than to, as they say in rock and roll, 'play out'. That might contrast with the vina that Sarasvati has, which may be fancier. It would fit with the whole living in the cemetery thing.

    Quote Because this hypostasis uses Dhi syllable, it is in:

    Medha

    Samadhi

    Buddhi

    Dhyana being its most direct expression.
    I tried to see if I could verify this using root words (sometimes my dictionary has them, sometimes not) but didn't find one. It is interesting.

    Quote If you look at Manjushri mantras, you can easily find the perhaps-Khotanese Arapacana saying A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhi. And so it is like invoking this whole lost northwestern legacy into a syllable that is "synonymous to or indicates" samadhi, even though the word does not start with it.
    So, I had looked into this when you mentioned it before. My guess was that the language which begins "A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhi" is a lingua franca for probably traders or sailors, and is a juxtaposition of the letter order they would find at the Arabian coast with the letter systems they had in the subcontinent, to which someone later attached the meaning of using the order because one could remember the prayers.

    I'm not sure about it, but at least some substance has to be given to the fact that contrary to what most scholars in the West, or for that matter Arabia or China would like to believe, and how they characterize the flow of culture, it remains that as established fact, the first seagoing ports built in the world were in modern day Gujarat, not among the Phoenicians or Arabs or Chinese.

    It's similar to the insistence that Western scholars have for that the durgan (funerary mounds in the steppes) must have come from North of the Black Sea and spread East, even though domestication of the horse, which caused all the movements on the steppes, happened in what is now modern day Khazakstan.

    Quote A maelstrom sounds like Marut Gana.

    Dream or Svapna is a somewhat common subject in Sadhanamala, often in the usage Svapna Maya, but there is also such a thing as:

    svapnendrajālasadṛśāḥ

    which appears to be Svapna Indra Jala Sadarsah. Sthiracakra and Vadiraj have this.

    Vajravarahi is Vidya of Indra Jala. So there is another tantric Net tucked away by it being obscure.
    This is interesting that there is a Indra Jala of dreams -- doesn't Sadarsah mean a different kind of vision, though?

    As per the maelstrom (and the subsequent fire), this was the first time that such a centered thing had not been centered on my centerline. Instead, I was drawn into a tight curled up pose that when through the dissolve became more like a coil, with the front of me to the inside and the back to the outside, the center of the whorl or maelstrom was black, the outside white, the boundary (which sliced through my body head to toe in a frontal or coronal section) was gold. I did put in my notes that the coil became intense just before everything started to spin as a 'snake eating its tail', and I did use the word churn because it had at least some relation to the churning of the milk.

    When it dissolved away eventually, after a stint being a stream, I was standing on a small world, or I was huge and standing on a big one, and fire was rushing upwards through everything.

    Quote The Purity Mantra is, so to speak, cleaning everything "into" Emptiness, whereas this one is the Void Gnosis itself, i. e. it has Dawned to you, you are Face to Face.

    This mantra is probably used in any school, but, Mrtyuvacana is teaching it as Parasunya, while she is teaching about Death. What she says about it is in reference to the eight entities including Manmatha:

    apy akhaṇḍitaromāgro mṛtyuṃ jayati muktavat //

    Akhandita is "uninterrupted" and the second half is difficult.

    I see Aro (Lotus Family) Umaga (appearing or coming to light), not because it seems like the most perfect match, but nothing really matches that. Whatever it is, leads to liberation by conquering death.
    Interesting that conquering death is seen as a dawning, this imagery is also in the Bardo literature.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The author was talking about strong experiences that leave a trace that affects behavior going forward by causing "grasping or aversion". I was just wondering if karmic winds were related.
    Ok.

    "Graha" or "Dvesa".

    You could almost call that "Attachment or Aversion", Raga and Dvesa, Lotus and Vajra Family, or the Goad and Noose of Ganapati.

    Graha or "Grasping" perhaps most poignantly means "grasping for truly-established existence in the Bardo", i. e., believing in the reality of skandhas or that a thought-construct based from ignorance is reliable. It does not work! In the Bardo these will simply turn into demons and torment you forever. Same thing happens in waking consciousness, only we filter it. That is because they are demons or they are made of demons, "whenever the mind is in the grip of any external object" according to Yeshe Tsogyal.

    When we feel the wind move, the subtle mind displays Ignorance, such as believing the reality of the false can be established, and then the coarse mind experiences grasping and aversion, and the ordinary mind gets drop-kicked into a cycle of phenomena.

    I would think the winds are "related", in that they do not move without layers of mind arising, and, vice versa, any arisen thought attracts the pressure of the winds. And then we can look to see for example, exactly where and in what pathways the winds of Lotus Family are dominant and so forth, but the Minds and Families are like passengers in a car driven by Wind.

    The point in calling it "karmic" means "established by habit", otherwise it would be free and patternless.

    Rahu or Dragon's Head refers to the ability to change karma by reviewing habits and making conscious decisions. Most human choices would be considered "conditioned" by sheaves of stored mental impressions. So it is pretty difficult to get Rahu under control. But, so to speak, by steering the Chariot with the Head, then the thrashing of the Tail subsides, its energy is no longer diverted into calamity, but, aligns as a propellor to the Head.


    Quote Is this something that she could/would do something about? She may not be manifested the way she should be because of the way people treat what she offers.
    Yes, there is no shortage in finding aspiration that Devi eradicates poverty and so on, but, if we look at how the money collected into the temples goes, then we would typically think people misunderstand Wealth entirely.

    Outer Wealth is to be given away; Inner Wealth is wisdom revealed by re-directing the winds.

    The higher forms of deities are pretty much inert in terms of "doing anything" for the world, there are karmic reasons for instance why adepts do not go around turning stones into bread until everyone eats. The disparity, injustice, and how to fix it, is a lot more complicated and horrible than a personal quest for Buddhahood. But in the vision of a Bodhisattva, we are brave enough to choose to remain and deal with it. That is why they are so ultra-strong, and persons such as myself, barely have any of the Upeksa we claim to represent.

    Annapurna may be in the future glory of Kashi as she was in the past, although is scarcely visible at this point in Kali Yug.

    She only works right in a perfected environment, so, if our business is anything else, we have driven her out.


    Quote So this is sort of an "as within, so without" concept.
    Yes.

    You could do Homa completely internally, except there is a lot to learn if you are not a Vajracharya.

    One could make or use as many of the outer symbols as may be helpful. If your "permanent household fire" is a candle in an apartment, if you cultivate the Bhava, it will work. If you make "real" Soma according to Vedic instructions, great, but if it just a cup of tea, if your mind and heart are in the right place, it will work.

    The real thing involves purification by a blast furnace which has been found to be as hot as the sun's surface, 4,000-ish degree range. So if you were just willing to do a few things with fire, sunlight, water, milk, ghee, and/or yogurt, then you could quickly make a type of "outer sanctum" which can only assist your "inner sanctum".

    One of the simplest definitions of Kundalini is "the right adjustment of inner to outer relations".

    And so you do this and Emptiness means there is no boundary between one and one's environment or "others" who appear there, no difference.

    The stages of a Homa performed publicly are going to involve the burning of various goods and lengthy prayers, etc., but, it translates to inner meaning of the tantric expansion of the deities.

    And so where it says "Akshobhya ritual", this is the distinctly Buddhist part. Well, let's say we use Varuni and Soma in place of Varuna and Holy Water, and then Vajrasattva and his method drive everything, even Agni. And so it is actually towards the beginning that one employs Tri-samadhi of "one's deity", which is usually Chakrasamvara, but it is allowed to be Mahattari Tara, so I can do Tara's Saptavidhanuttara Puja and then the closest thing I can figure out for Vajrayogini.

    That is why we are in a position to say "system of Tara" is:

    a next step for Guru Yoga

    an acceptable samadhi for Homa

    the only Akanistha in the Forest

    she misses nothing and makes everything more accessible and easy and heals us.

    I think she is laughing now that someone has seen that the formulaic male Bodhisattva system distributed across most institutions is "secretly" convertible to female. It says so in the commentaries. So, ok, if I was brought up in school that Manjushri is/does/becomes these, then this would be like new information and I would go "oh now what?". Since my mind was never filled with that kind of formal education, but it does have Tara, the thing is very direct.


    Dhi syllable also stands for Dhimahi which is in all the Gayatris.

    The nebulous position of Buddhi has been attempted to be explained as that which makes the Mirror possible, i. e. is able to operate Svasamvedana, employing Manas as the Reflection of Buddhi as shown in the Moon Mirror.

    So, here, we probably have to fudge a bit of "our" philosophy into "their" vocabulary:

    Buddhi (बुद्धि) alone among the twenty-four components of prakṛti directly interacts with puruṣa. Orthodox Sāṃkhya wishes to maintain (1) a radical distinction between puruṣa and prakṛti, and (2) a prakṛti that is at once fully cognitive, sensorially aware and active, intellective, etc., and at the same time non-conscious (acetana). How can buddhi be rational, discerning, reflective, discriminative, in short, cognitive, and yet lack consciousness? Buddhi must provide both the linkage or communication between puruṣa and prakṛti, as well as generate the discernment that realizes their ultimate separation.

    According to Annaṃbhaṭṭa, buddhi is of two kinds:—

    smṛti (remembrance),
    anubhava (apprehension or experience).

    That knowledge is known as smṛti which is produced from mental impressions only.

    “buddhi (intellect), jñāna (knowledge and upalabdhi (apprehension) are not different from one another"


    I do not think it is quite so "intellectual", but has a lot to do with the Sixth Principle and Svasamvedana.



    The Vina itself was at one time important in Vinasikha Tantra, which was behind Angkor Wat, which employs Tumburu--Rudra along with the goddesses Jaya, Vijaya, Ajita (or Jayanti), and Aparajita. It uses the rare form of sadhana called Sirascheda. The tantra may be called Vina Tantra or simply Vina and is among the Vama tantras. There is, from Java, the entire Vinasikha.

    It is from the Jayadrathayamala which is preserved in Nepal.

    Sirascheda is in the same class (Vidya Pitha) as Yogini Jala Sambara which is Shiva's use of sixty-four yoginis in a big pattern. Sirascheda is apparently a group of Eight Bhairava tantras including Vina.


    General information surmises that tantric practice "begins" in the Atharva Veda, has Kubjika as the earliest major strand, and is relatively limited in literary scope until the medieval era. And sio examined in the light of the development of Cambodia with some of the most major masonry ever attempted, it still traces to Bhairava tantra and Nepal, such as in Studies on Tantras:

    One of the principal
    Yamala texts, the Brahma Yamala, is preserved in Nepal in a
    manuscript of a.d. 1052. It gives a list of the eight Yamalas and
    says that they were communicated by the eight Bhairavas—
    Svacchanda, Krodha, Unmatta, Ugra, Kapalin, Jhankara,
    Sekhara, and Vijaya. Whereas the original Siva Tantras or
    Agamas represent the Rudra or Sadasiva tradition, the Yamalas
    represent the Bhairava tradition. Bhairavas seem to have been
    human teachers who had attained complete spiritual emancipa¬
    tion and had almost become Siva. Two other old texts belong to
    the Yamala group. They are Pihgalamata and Jayadratha Yamala .
    Pihgalamata explicitly states that the Jayadratha Yamala, an
    extensive work of about 24,000 slokas (caturvimsati-sahasra), is a
    supplement to Brahma Yamala , and that Pihgalamata itself is a
    supplement to Jayadratha. The Jayadratha Yamala also exists in a
    manuscript of about the same period; but as the special mode
    of sadhana called sirascheda which it advocates was introduced
    in the Hindu colony of Kambuja (Cambodia) in the early ninth
    century, it must have existed in India much earlier.

    The translation says that references to Tumburu--Rudra are abundant in literature, but, this is the only known source of the sadhana. Mainstream references often describe him as a Gandharva in the company of Narada (inventor of the Vina).

    In one example, he is white, mounted on a bull, holding skull and citron, surrounded by four wrathful goddesses. They give a fair few forms found in, I suppose, later or derivative works. They say the "most interesting addition to our information" is that:

    Tumburu is a Bodhisattva in Manjushri Mulakalpa. His retinue has "several" mantras, different from the Hindu ones, and they have they feature of roaming over the ocean, honored by the world, bestowing grace upon creatures.

    It deals with healing herbs, white Tumburu as the akash of the five elements, and the four sisters as Yakshinis, wrathful and sometimes needing reprimand from the central figure.

    If the translator did not know, he has just described to us the cult of Jambhala. Again there is the MMK in an overpowered role of holding some of the only history of many subjects. It is among the "most antique" books.

    Vinasikha is Devi asking Isana for the Five Bijas and their Heart. Their "base" is the lute string, or, it is Vinadhara by method of the Sikha. The Bijas have a Sakala and a Niskala variety, and they communicate secrets called samayah.

    Aparajita is chariot-mounted and loudly roaring, and it has intermediate goddesses such as Gayatri and Savitri. It does subtle body yoga based in Amrita and Agni. There is a secret-secret bija which contains the deities' supreme forms, and is held by Sukra, who churned it from nectar.

    It has Four Activities and meditation on flame in the heart. So this is an excellent work, large and heavily annotated introduction, Nepalese Sanskrit original, with translation beginning on p. 99.
    Last edited by shaberon; 2nd March 2021 at 19:42.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I'm not sure about it, but at least some substance has to be given to the fact that contrary to what most scholars in the West, or for that matter Arabia or China would like to believe, and how they characterize the flow of culture, it remains that as established fact, the first seagoing ports built in the world were in modern day Gujarat, not among the Phoenicians or Arabs or Chinese.
    Dwarka--Door of Ka--City of Krishna.

    No, no one had ever really forgotten about it, it just seems like news to us.

    Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 m (120 ft) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old. It is believed to predate the oldest known remains in the subcontinent by more than 5,000 years. Carbon dating on debris recovered from the site, including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth, put it at nearly 9,500 years old, making it older than the Sumerian civilisation by several thousand years. It is also older than the Egyptian and Chinese civilisations. The city is believed to be even older than the ancient Harappan civilisation.

    Dwarka is mentioned in a number of texts, including the Mahabharata, the Shrimad Bhagavad Gita, the Harivamsha as well as the Skanda Purana, and the Vishnu and Vayu Puranas.

    Its main contender in the archaeological record appears to me to be Baalbek.

    In the riddle of Seven Cities of India, if we change "death at Kashi" from literal to symbolic and therefor Kashi changes from the Ajna to the Heart center, it would be necessary to designate how the others change. My guess would be Dwarka as throat center/mouth, since, as a port, it represents the whole "system of India" talking to other systems.

    Similarly, upon a time, there was Adam's Bridge from India to Lanka.

    The possible extension of trade routes from Dwarka to ancient Khotan when it was an oasis seems likely to me.

    Human habitation in some of these places is practically timeless, but, civilizations displaying advanced masonry can certainly be shown as far older than they have been given credit for.

    I believe that when they did so, language was a type of poetry or song, and all of it being a divine invocation, they did not know the limited mundane speech we use.

    Same principle is true for the small kurgans and so on.

    Maybe the thing called the Bosnian Pyramid.

    There is a theory which could never really be objectively proven that these ancient monolithic and masonic structures were like a natural internet, like radio chambers, such that someone sitting in India could telepathically correspond with a counterpart in Chichen Itza. And so then, if I do not really know that much about something like Andean culture, it is still possible they have a school of occultism which is different in its details and is unknown to me and not particularly open to my curiosity. It can remain a mystery and we are fine. The difference with Buddhism is that, even after you try to rout it out with genocide, it manifests fractals in foreign civilizations returning to its original language. It will take converts with very little formal recognition. Buddha told me not to take everything he says as revelation, as if it had been spoken by a Deva, or Indra, or a Sage, but grind it through your own questions. So, I did, and what happened is that it turned out to be more useful and reliable than anything else. Eventually, one ceases debating and surrenders to the Wheel.





    Quote This is interesting that there is a Indra Jala of dreams -- doesn't Sadarsah mean a different kind of vision, though?
    It means "identical", so, this phrase is like Svapna Maya: Svapna is equal to Indra Jala, so, triangularly, Indra Jala is equal to Maya.

    Your description of "maelstrom" sounds a bit like "whirlpool or tornado"?


    Dawning is...literal. Sure it has that figurative meaning like eureka, like something occurs to you, but in tantra, it means manifests in visible form. Particularly when it says, Dawning of the Peaceful and Wrathful Deities, this is the Hundred Families, usually caused by a "burst" of the confining ignorance, such as the utter disposal of brain consciousness by death. Then they will appear.

    In that state, they are Luminous. In sadhana training, it is possible to generate a mundane form of a deity, that still is kind of like an object, or person, but ultimately they have a Self-arisen Heruka which is Fiery or Incandescent. So, one could speak of the Dawning of Luminosity, as the environment, as Luminous Mind, or, of various classes of deities or Lokas or Talas.

    Luminosity has its source beyond Kama Loka, so, conquering death and the three worlds is the way to get to the highest part of Kamaloka and meditate/interact with the luminosity, spiritual consciousness, cosmic plane, or Buddhi Manas.

    Again, here, one can self-gauge it. Once you become a little bit sensitive to what Kamaloka is and what those states of consciousness are, then you can figure out what you need to train in order to smash the obstacles and let in the Buddhi Manas or Amrita. To gain repose in Sambhogakaya.

    We do not much use this term, Buddhi, or "the Buddhic plane", etc., very much, like there is not much Medha.

    Maybe the best I can do here is to suggest the symbolic difference in Sutra and Tantra. The common Prajnaparamita deity is a Four Arm Golden form who represents her own Sutra and the Gate Gate mantra, and is found in at least most of the Kagyu Refuge Trees, and again is like a "day one" thing for anybody who wanted to see what our meditation is like.

    White Prajnaparamita is a single-follower Sherab who mantricly conjoins Sarasvati by sharing this Picu or Cotton formula:

    oṃ picu picu prajñāvarddhani jvala jvala medhāvarddhani dhiri dhiri buddhivarddhani svāhā


    And so Mrtyu Vacana is at least "indicative of the same". These tantric forms impel you to Void Gnosis, to which, Mrtyu Vacana is perhaps a Heroine for explaining it as Parasunya. Here, she assigns Parasunya to Emptiness Mantra, which is the main workhorse in these sadhanas, used fifty times. Usually you are just told to use it during a process. Only a few spots hint any more "about" it:


    Vajra Tara adds Nisprapanca to it, right before referring to Prajnaparamita. Marici uses it for Sunyata Samadhi. With Kurukulla it is Citta Adhistitha. Then White Kurukulla uses it for the Prabhasvara itself. Pratisara explains it as Nirvikalpa. Vajravarahi makes it Ahamkara--so your Ego has been replaced by her Divine Ego.

    So it is very important and has been the main thing I have been aiming at lately besides Ganapati and Matangi.

    The Parasunya is arguably "the same as" its Adwaita definition, but, is being used differently to make Complete Manifest Buddha. It parallels terms which are drawn from Nirakara Vijnana Vada which is Shentong. These are the terms which are present, and others are not. So it is heavily towards the elimination of all phenomena for the sake of appearance of Absolute Object or Prabhasvara.

    Since the actual name Sita Tara is applied to Mrtyuvacana, then, I would say that Sita is dealing with the above. It is not necessarily "a Tara in Buddha Family" or "part of Long Life Trinity" or most of the modern labels. Has more to do with a flow from outer, common Sarasvati, into Void Gnosis mantra. Purity mantra is not that hard to figure out; it cleans and it washes away phenomena. Voidness or Sunyata mantra is all about the Face to Face, the power of being in it longer and more fully and so on.

    Picu is like an intermediate, an interface, elevating aspects of Manas which adapt to reflecting Buddhi.

    You could use Picu as Sarasvati, Sunya as Mrtyuvacana, and combine them both into White Prajnaparamita. That looks to be the structure.

    For whatever karmic reason, Sarasvati was the only other deity I ever had much communion with, and then I feel I basically did a horrible job entering and exiting voidness, which makes Mrtyuvacana very relevant.

    Because Kurukulla is very popular, and, she uses the phrase "Sunyatamantram", and Mrtyuvacana is not and so her more explanatory Parasunya evidently fell out of the common knowledge base. When we find a word used uniquely, it is indicative, like a Dharmacakra moment, but, if there is not a copy of Sadhanamala in our country, we do not notice this sadhana, and may tend to roll with the more common "Emptiness-only" of the Rangtong view of Sunya.


    Sarasvati and Kurukulla are Hrim deities, it is the Mirror of Maya and also the symbol of Bhuvaneshvari who is sometimes considered Empress of Manidvipa. Even Hindus have a hard time telling if it is Bhuvaneshvari or Tripura Sundari.

    Durga is a different system than the Mahavidyas, but, there is a mantric identity of the sixth Durga, Katyayani:

    Katyayani Mahamaye Bhavani Bhuvaneshvari

    Now, seeing as Raja Rajeshwari is in one instance a form of Matangi, but, appears to dovetail into Kamakhya Devi, it continues with Bhuvaneshvari in a few songs.

    With the Ten Mahavidyas as Vilasini:

    Jaya Jagat Janani Jagadeeshwari
    Parthi Puri Parameshwari
    Anantha Koti Brahmanda Nayaki
    Dasha Maha Vidya Veda Vilasini
    Mukti Pradayini Bhava Bhaya Haarini
    Sathya Sai Bhuvaneshwari


    virtually the same as Tripura:

    Raja Rajeshwari Rajya Pradayini
    Raakshasa Nashini Paalaya Maam
    Sri Bhuvaneshwari Tripura Sundari
    Shiva Shakthi Roopini Paalaya Maam


    as Parashakti:

    Amba Parameshwari Akhilandeshwari
    Adi Parashakthi Paalaya Maam
    Sri Bhuvaneshwari Raja Rajeshwari
    Ananda Roopini Paalaya Maam


    as Ganapati Priya:


    Gaana Priyey Sai Karunamayi
    Kadambari Amba Katyayani [ Gaana Priyey ... ]
    Hari Vallabhey Sukha Dayini
    Omkara Roopini Narayani
    Bhuvaneshwari (Amba) Jaganmohini
    Sri Chakra Vasini Sayeeshwari


    as Annapurna:

    Annapoorneshwari Paalaya Maam
    Adi Parashakthi Paalaya
    Sri Bhuvaneshwari Paalaya Maam
    Sri Jagadeeshwari Paalaya
    Parthi Pureeshwari Paalaya Maam
    Paahi Maheshwari Paalaya
    Sundara Roopey Paalaya Maam
    Chira Sukha Dayini Paalaya


    as Vilasini and Harini Bhairavi:

    Jagadodharini Ma
    Vishwa Vilasini Ma
    Sthira Sukha Dayini Ma
    Durgati Nashini Ma (Hey)
    Parthi Pureeshwari Parvathi Ma
    Bhava Bhaya Harini Bhairavi Ma
    Sambhavi Ma Gowri Ma
    Jaya Parameshwari Jaya Bhuvaneshwari
    Jaya Partheeshwari Parvathi Ma



    and as Annapurna:

    Rajeshwari Sri Bhuvaneshwari
    Parameshwari Sathya Sayeeshwari
    Partheeshwari Annapoorneshwari
    Sarveshwari Sathya Sayeeshwari


    Even though the expert commentator said she is in pink saree, this is a common image of Bhuvaneshvari:




    And so it is like just her toe touches the top of Sri Yamtra, or Sri Nagara, Manidvipa, Manipura.

    According to Bhuvaneshvari, Hrim is also Hridaya syllable.

    Whose Body is the Cosmos. Space. Her astrological planet is Moon. The fullness of inner space merges with the cosmic womb of outer space. Love of infinite space. Love that provides space for growth.

    In the primary account, she is red, dressed in red, and red paste, consort of Trayambaka Bhairava, who is crowned with a Crescent and the Ganges. This is Brahman.

    There, Ganges again is symbolic of the whole mirror nature of the astral plane, or Maya of the inner world, so, this greatly-pleasurable form probably does have something to do with transcending form alltogether.



    And so there is some sense of Annapurna Shakti as "something" parallel to this weird Mahavidya Bhuvaneshvari, who, if an Omkara Rupini, cannot be anything other than a future state of Matangi.

    Hrim is a Maya Mirror on goddesses like Sarasvati; the Buddhi Manas mirror is a rarely-taught aspect of a central Moon Disk.

    Matangi uses Hrim in her Ucchista Chandali form.

    And so we can say Bhuvaneshvari "is" Hrim and then there is little we can say about her, but, try to get this Mirror and Sarasvati and this type of progression, with the intention that the actual Bhuvaneshvari is later revealed or displayed by the work.
    Last edited by shaberon; 2nd March 2021 at 09:31.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote ...such that someone sitting in India could telepathically correspond with a counterpart in Chichen Itza.
    Chichen Itza is probably not as old as the others, Teotihuacan is older, to the North.

    Quote The difference with Buddhism is that, even after you try to rout it out with genocide, it manifests fractals in foreign civilizations returning to its original language.
    Buddhism is very much like a science of concentration, and it was against the exclusivity of the times, which makes it somehow more willing to accept new people.



    Quote
    Quote This is interesting that there is a Indra Jala of dreams -- doesn't Sadarsah mean a different kind of vision, though?
    It means "identical", so, this phrase is like Svapna Maya: Svapna is equal to Indra Jala, so, triangularly, Indra Jala is equal to Maya.
    I got that from Sri Aurobindo, he said there was a samadhi called sadarsah samadhi that is about visions, like, but not identical, to dreams.

    Quote Your description of "maelstrom" sounds a bit like "whirlpool or tornado"?
    I meant maelstrom like the original - a mythical whirlpool off of Scandinavia. The whole thing was a big mixture of things Nordic and Indic. The outside of it was like the churning of the ocean of milk, the inside was like a deep black whirlpool like the maelstrom.

    Quote And so Mrtyu Vacana is at least "indicative of the same". These tantric forms impel you to Void Gnosis, to which, Mrtyu Vacana is perhaps a Heroine for explaining it as Parasunya. Here, she assigns Parasunya to Emptiness Mantra, which is the main workhorse in these sadhanas, used fifty times.
    I have Mrtyuvacana meaning "death-cheater". Maybe that is consistent.

    Quote You could use Picu as Sarasvati, Sunya as Mrtyuvacana, and combine them both into White Prajnaparamita. That looks to be the structure.
    So then can White Prajnaparamita decompose to Mrtyuvacana and Sarasvati as Sunya and Picu?

    Quote And so it is like just her toe touches the top of Sri Yamtra, or Sri Nagara, Manidvipa, Manipura.
    Her foot rests on a small platform. That's a direct analog to the small lotus that the same foot of Tara is always on?

    Quote According to Bhuvaneshvari, Hrim is also Hridaya syllable.

    Whose Body is the Cosmos. Space. Her astrological planet is Moon. The fullness of inner space merges with the cosmic womb of outer space. Love of infinite space. Love that provides space for growth.

    In the primary account, she is red, dressed in red, and red paste, consort of Trayambaka Bhairava, who is crowned with a Crescent and the Ganges. This is Brahman.
    This symbolism is vaguely familiar from shaking. This is the woman who witnessed the Buddha's enlightenment, is she not?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote When we feel the wind move, the subtle mind displays Ignorance, such as believing the reality of the false can be established, and then the coarse mind experiences grasping and aversion, and the ordinary mind gets drop-kicked into a cycle of phenomena.

    I would think the winds are "related", in that they do not move without layers of mind arising, and, vice versa, any arisen thought attracts the pressure of the winds. And then we can look to see for example, exactly where and in what pathways the winds of Lotus Family are dominant and so forth, but the Minds and Families are like passengers in a car driven by Wind.

    The point in calling it "karmic" means "established by habit", otherwise it would be free and patternless.
    It's kind of funny, I think about this kind of thing from time to time in a deliberately completely secular manner, about patterns and brains and the like. And even if I was to interpret all of my shaking completely secularly, I would have to believe this one part, because always as I move through experiences in it, holding on is what constrains and prevents the free expansion of thought and imagination.

    Quote That is why we are in a position to say "system of Tara" is:

    a next step for Guru Yoga

    an acceptable samadhi for Homa

    the only Akanistha in the Forest

    she misses nothing and makes everything more accessible and easy and heals us.
    I have something to report I found. I was reading this article on Lajji Gauri in the Buddhist artifacts at Aurangabad, because I was looking for information about squatting goddesses (I have several times now in the past two weeks had an identification from such a Dakini) and this author links her stance both to sexuality and to giving birth, and says, in essence, there has been a deity like this, frequently pulling an ear of grain from herself, since Harappa/Mohenjo Daro era, and that she may eventually be Vasudhara.

    Quote It deals with healing herbs, white Tumburu as the akash of the five elements, and the four sisters as Yakshinis, wrathful and sometimes needing reprimand from the central figure.
    Is Tumburu local to Cambodia or earlier? This does seem like it is more centered there.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Chichen Itza is probably not as old as the others, Teotihuacan is older, to the North.
    Again correct. Yes, the Teotihuacan has been discovered to have a purposeless, difficult-to-make shaft of Mercury, which perhaps was the antenna. It is the appearance of such things in Bosnia, South Africa, etc., which has made some other people surmise a telepathic network having been globally distributed.

    Ultimately. Illusory Body would render such a thing useless or unnecessary, but, perhaps, there were a lot of semi-developed disciples using metallic or other assistance to communicate.



    Quote Buddhism is very much like a science of concentration, and it was against the exclusivity of the times, which makes it somehow more willing to accept new people.
    Well, yes--and here, there is no way to say it does not have a "take over the world" mentality, it definitely does, just not of the more familiar crusader or heavy proselytism of many religions. Just an open door. Largest growth that I know of, post-Tibetan diaspora, is the conversion of six million Dalits, so, the Chandali or low or out-caste acceptance certainly has not blinked.

    Islam is almost as easy to convert to. You just take a simple vow in front of witnesses. I almost became an Islamic Buddhist, but, I was committing Shirk or Heresy, which is a bit risky. It saya, La Illaha, Illa Allah, which they interpret as "there are no gods except Allah". I took it more as "there are no gods, there is only One Form of Existence". Although we constantly use "gods and goddesses" for the convenience of translation, they are Devas, Asuras, or Bodhisattvas. We take them more as powers of the mind/powers of nature. So, although we are dealing with the "invisible world" same as most religions, that is where the similarity ends.

    Quote I got that from Sri Aurobindo, he said there was a samadhi called sadarsah samadhi that is about visions, like, but not identical, to dreams.
    He is one of the better Hindu yogis. I suppose "identical" is not really the best word--Maya and/or life in this world is similar to, is like a dream; or, dreams are a condition where we want to carry on the same work.

    If his samadhi is about visions, then, this is at least somewhat resembling Buddhist samadhi which involves concentration on a vision. That is why it is not Dhyana. I can do Dhyana by concentrating on a sentence or two from this page, but I can't even visualize a potato.

    Quote I meant maelstrom like the original - a mythical whirlpool off of Scandinavia. The whole thing was a big mixture of things Nordic and Indic. The outside of it was like the churning of the ocean of milk, the inside was like a deep black whirlpool like the maelstrom.
    Oh, good. "Original meaning" is what makes Theosophical jargon difficult, especially with Greek. Such as, Ego is not the ego of psychology, but, the "true individual", who is not of this world; Chaos = Mulaprakriti, Eros = Amitayus, Eos = Ushas, and so on. And so I would think the Norse should be similar; another branch from Orpheus, most likely, especially seeing how bardic the culture was.

    A milk-and-ink whirlpool sounds awesome, there is almost no way that cannot be showing the centrality of the Avadhut and what its likely condition is.


    Quote I have Mrtyuvacana meaning "death-cheater". Maybe that is consistent.
    Yes, that is the direction of it. Vacana is "explaining", an extension of Vach or Voice; but an "explanation" might be a simple report, whereas this one has a purpose. Sadhanamala similarly has:

    Amoghasiddhi as Tri-samaya Raja is Tantra Vacana

    Khasarpana says that purified prakriti is Upapanna Vacana--hard to say what this is, but, Sragdhara Tara is the only other use of Upapanna; she happens to end with Tarini Sadrsa.

    Vadiraj has Sunyata and Karuna Adhivacana.

    Vistara has saṃlikhyate vacanataḥ suhṛdābhihāpi.

    Vajra Tara has Cinta Vacana.

    White Kurukulla has Sarva Vidita Vacana.

    The weird Pancha Raksha 206 has one so convoluted I cannot guess what they are saying.

    Elsewhere, Ganapati Hrdaya has Rudra Vacana.


    With Sadrsa, Ali Manmatha has Nairatma Heruka Svabhava, and a difficult use of Jala with Sadrsa:

    kausumbharāgarañjitajalabindusadṛśau

    Sadrsa also has other uses related to color; Mirror is Adarsha; these being forms of Drsti, "to see".



    Quote So then can White Prajnaparamita decompose to Mrtyuvacana and Sarasvati as Sunya and Picu?
    I suppose you could.


    White Prajnaparamita is from Vajra Panjara Tantra, easy to recognize by her Dharmachakra gesture and two texts:




    How it works is shown here by Buddhasri. He is in the Yogacara lineage, and the main teacher of the founder of Ngor, which retains these special white deities such as Four Arm Sita and Amaravajra. Under Buddhasri are the two sherabs, White Prajnaparamita and White Vajravarahi:






    So for the most part, it is about rolling Prajnaparamita forward into further deities. But if you feel a link to Prajnaparamita and not to Sarasvati, yes, having the one assures the other, and believe me if anything, basic Sarasvati is as far away as simply thinking of her name. If you have a brain and are willing to listen, she will help.

    Mrtyuvacana is Tara, who is about as far away as saying her mantra. I would not think of Tara as the ordinary indwelling deity of the brain, eyes, hair, memory, or anything--she arises by request and emplacement. She is not hard to get, but, it is a bit more like she wants to know if you are talking to specifically her. That is all. No basic Tara requires a baptism or an oath and she will help non-Buddhists as long as they are talking to her. Just a matter of attention, respect, and seriousness. At least the Eight Fears Tara is there to help the utterly devastated, she is a solace to mental and emotional distress.

    Since the fact of death may be a mystery or grievance, Mrtyuvacana will alleviate those issues.

    The Met has a ca. 1100 Bengali Prajnaparamita manuscript with a few amazing images which unfortunately they have nothing or misleading things to say. But what it does have is Vajra Feet Taras. And so this "White Tara" is the closest thing I have found to White Vajra Tara:






    Mrtyuvacana is similar, but, I am not sure she is fiery, she may have a knees-cloth, and she bears a wheel on her chest.

    I am not sure if "Green Tara" has Vajra Feet in any other image in the world, so, this is quite close to Mahattari Tara:





    They were able to figure out this is Marici but say nothing about the elephant in the room, on the floor, and apparently on her red face:





    This one says nothing; almost looks like Slapping Aparajita, but I think it may be something else:





    Since that stuff is coming from the eminent domain of Sadhanamala, it is likely to be conversant with that book. If one can read the script around the images, it might be more straightforward. The tradition does allow you to make a couple of minor changes--so if for some reason you needed Marici to get a Ganapati face, it looks like you can do that, provided she is still recognizable with her twig and pig face and so on. Perhaps this one is talking about Amritakundalin "The Servant". Hard to say. If the work was a studio or school production, it would be expected to completely conform; but, if this was most likely commissioned by a donor, that person has their own motives, to please a king, remember a saint, sponsor a household deity, express an interpretation or vision, and so on.


    Quote Her foot rests on a small platform. That's a direct analog to the small lotus that the same foot of Tara is always on?
    It is on the Sri Yantra, which is really three-dimensional, so it is more like dakinis with one foot on a triangle or dharmodaya.

    Basic Taras have nothing to say about Generation Stage or tantra, etc., until you look at Saptavidanuttara Puja as exemplified with Mahattari. Her most direct "into tantra" form is Pitha Ishvari or Pitheshvari Tara, which was contributed by Saraha, the first Mahasiddha; Pitheshvari is a dakini form with one foot on the triangle.

    Tara "about to leap" represents her quickness in answering distress calls.




    Quote This symbolism is vaguely familiar from shaking. This is the woman who witnessed the Buddha's enlightenment, is she not?
    That was Bhu Devi and Aparajita. It is just Bhu in most of the scriptures, whereas Aparajita also appears in the stonework at Ratnagiri.

    Bhu, I think, is really incredibly complex. She always has the simplicity of the solidity and floor-like nature of earth; and it is not said that her body is the cosmos (Bhuvaneshvari), but, in a more general view, the earth element includes the entire physical plane or manifested cosmos; the Earth Sphere being but a particular habitat found therein. If I said there are Pancake People on Jupiter made of Cobalt, they would, in a sense, be earthlings, because part of the physical world.

    Bhuvaneshvari is more like all the lower worlds or lower three planes. The planes of Form as a whole. She is effectively Brahman Shakti. She is the normal/standard female Moon to Matangi's Sun; this relationship or Ray is Sushumna or Avadhut.

    Because her consort is Bhairava, this represents a person who has achieved her level.

    Bhairava tantra is based in nectar and bliss and so it does share a great deal of inner meaning with Buddhist sadhanas.

    The oldest Orissan deity is Viraj of Jaipur, whereas it is hard to give the Mahavidyas besides Matangi much evidence prior to the general dissemination of tantric literature.

    Because they are Mahavidyas, it means they emerge from their mantra practice, which is to say Bhuvaneshvari is not the default resident of the earth planet or physical body.

    In one version, she orders Savitri to marry Brahma, which makes a different kind of Tri-Shakti.

    Lakshmi, Gauri, Savitri:





    The page says, and the definition of Bhuvan is, the Three Worlds, Bhu, Bhuvar, Sva. If you spell it Bhuvana, it may be Three or Fourteen worlds, which, the fourteen are just the esoteric expansion of three to seven worlds, doubled as Talas.

    Bhuvaneshvari is not really Bhu but includes Bhu, whether you think of it as the material plane, or the earth globe. She is the whole cosmos including sky and heaven similar to how most people think of them. However, it is not too obscure that if you ask about this, "there are really seven".

    Buddhism usually calls it Form, Desire, and Formlessness--so, Form is the lower three worlds, Desire is Kama which is not material form but is linked to it, and Formlessness is three higher worlds of something else. So by counting Kama as Form, the four form planes are a Square, to which Formlessness is a Higher Triangle.
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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    always as I move through experiences in it, holding on is what constrains and prevents the free expansion of thought and imagination.

    Yes, I am sure that just as it puts tension in the physical body, it puts tension in the subtle body.

    Grasper and Grasped connote the two main branch nerves, as if one is motor and one is sensory.

    And so if we see the deletrious effects of Grasper continuing its karmic patterns, then, that which is Grasped is probably not something we want to see at all. Again, if we perceive a coffee cup and think that is all it is, we are not seeing. It is a target of skandhas and sins. That is what really resides there unless we purify it.

    When we really see what we are grasping and it is Worldly Mamos, we are going to be unhappy. Those things have to be sealed away. If I was attached to the cup in any outer way, it houses demons, nothing but sickness waiting to spread.

    The Grasped is considered the Moon and Varnani, who is Pranava Vajradakini, i. e., Om and the alphabet, and is a more difficult form than Vairocani and Varahi. So, she is like a furthering of Buddhadakini called Sarvabuddhadakini.

    From the same era and region of the manuscript, the Met also has a stone what they call Sarvabuddhadakini. Not sure how they named it.


    Quote there has been a deity like this, frequently pulling an ear of grain from herself, since Harappa/Mohenjo Daro era, and that she may eventually be Vasudhara.
    Lajja is often decapitated with a lotus covering the stump.

    It means "shame or modesty" and is very similar to Samaya "bond of dignity".

    Vasudhara would likely be the first female Samaya one would make as a Nepalese Buddhist.

    Ila, Bhu, Cintamani, and Gopali are basic Yellow Vasudharas. Cintamani is a bit unusual for her Jupiterian Bhrim syllable, which is shared with Bhrkuti.


    Renuka is another decapitated goddess, and, it seems to me, Vina Tantra must be at least suggestive of Cinnamasta.

    The "method" looks similar, but, I hesitate to say these deities "are" each other. Cinnamasta in our tantras is completely Noumenal, we would never think if she had anything to do with creation or whether she has any direct influence on the world whatsoever. Maybe she does, but, I would look to someone else for that kind of thing.



    Quote Is Tumburu local to Cambodia or earlier? This does seem like it is more centered there.
    Well, if I spelled it right, it is the name of Rudra in Vina Tantra, which was the main driving force in the Hinduization of Cambodia and Indonesia. I am not sure what the Khmer may have said. The Indonesian royalty openly stated they wanted the best magic and believed that Hinduism and Buddhism were both effective and almost the same thing. And so this particular Rudra may be the only way he is expressed there.

    I try to look at the unifying spirit. Everybody knows what a Vina is, and can do their best to think of its associations and what that means in terms of inner experience. I don't expect anyone to believe in the way of the Bodhisattva unless they are fairly exposed to it and have time to ponder it thoughtfully. And so if this Vina is reciprocally meaningful to Manjushri since early times...well, we mainly have different mantras.

    Atharva Veda is a difficult book since it constantly tempts you with black magic. Because this Veda is so old and, perhaps, dangerous, the relative dangers of tantra do not seem all that bad. At worst, we can argue tantric blood and sacrifice "may" be symbolic, whereas packaging malevolent spells into what is ostensibly a religious scripture is a pretty strong push in that direction.

    It seemed like the Hindu sources make Vina Tantra "slightly" older than Wat building, but, if we have the same Rudra in MMK, this is one of the oldest texts, ca. 300. Again when I think if there is even a scrap of Prajnaparamita that can be carbon-dated to ca. 75, it is probably more like tip of an iceberg. Especially in the light of most teaching being spoken.
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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote I can do Dhyana by concentrating on a sentence or two from this page, but I can't even visualize a potato.
    You say this often, and I always have a kind of knee-jerk reaction of, "How can I help?" I don't have a problem with visualization. I think, "But you can remember things you saw, right? If I asked you without you looking at it, what color is the border in the White Prajnaparamita image you posted, you could think about it and eventually say, right? So you must have visualized it at least a little bit to do that?

    Quote A milk-and-ink whirlpool sounds awesome, there is almost no way that cannot be showing the centrality of the Avadhut and what its likely condition is.
    That's just the thing, I was curled up (both physically and in vision) and the center of the whirlpool/churning was the center of the curl, in other words, perpendicular to Avadhut and outside of the body.

    The night, which is now the night before the night before, was another of the 'starting lessons' points, although the lesson about the dreaming does not appear to be done (since I can only do a couple of things not the whole thing yet). I was convulsed into that vision with my consciousness quickly going through the dissolve almost instantly from the shock. I managed to 'do it myself' once out of maybe a dozen tries last night, but the once was at the beginning so I don't have a handle on it, I am being asked to be able to do a dissolve in an instant and the method is painful, I did find out the pain is not the method, it's to make me do the method because I react reflexively. I certainly hope I figure it out sooner than later, I end up in the morning very sore from all of my muscles in my whole body spasming tense at the same time and not even being able to breathe.

    On the sleep front, I figured out how to do something that for lack of a better word, I've been referring to as "lucid sleeping". I stay aware at and then through the little portal or switch or whatever it is for falling asleep, and end up lucid but asleep but as far as I can tell, not dreaming, I tried all those weird things like trying to fly or looking at my watch and seeing it run backwards and so forth and could do none of them, all I did was watch myself sleep and then pop back after a few minutes.


    Quote So for the most part, it is about rolling Prajnaparamita forward into further deities. But if you feel a link to Prajnaparamita and not to Sarasvati, yes, having the one assures the other, and believe me if anything, basic Sarasvati is as far away as simply thinking of her name. If you have a brain and are willing to listen, she will help.

    Mrtyuvacana is Tara, who is about as far away as saying her mantra. I would not think of Tara as the ordinary indwelling deity of the brain, eyes, hair, memory, or anything--she arises by request and emplacement. She is not hard to get,...
    Understood for normally, but in my shaking, I 'have' Prajnaparamita, I have only Sarasvati's lute, and I would have only a death-cheater indirectly.

    Quote Since that stuff is coming from the eminent domain of Sadhanamala, it is likely to be conversant with that book. If one can read the script around the images, it might be more straightforward.
    That looks almost more like Devanagari than Bengali although it doesn't look enough like Devanagari for me, I will ask a Bengali speaker.

    Quote The page says, and the definition of Bhuvan is, the Three Worlds, Bhu, Bhuvar, Sva.
    The page actually says that Bhuvantraya means three worlds, doesn't it? It says Bhuvaneshvari is synonymous with Bhuvanpati -- Master or Creator of the world. But I take your point, she is not at least directly the same one who bore witness.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Yes, I am sure that just as it puts tension in the physical body, it puts tension in the subtle body.

    Grasper and Grasped connote the two main branch nerves, as if one is motor and one is sensory.

    And so if we see the deletrious effects of Grasper continuing its karmic patterns, then, that which is Grasped is probably not something we want to see at all. Again, if we perceive a coffee cup and think that is all it is, we are not seeing. It is a target of skandhas and sins. That is what really resides there unless we purify it.

    When we really see what we are grasping and it is Worldly Mamos, we are going to be unhappy. Those things have to be sealed away. If I was attached to the cup in any outer way, it houses demons, nothing but sickness waiting to spread.
    To me, it shows up as either obstacles or lack of focus. And a constraint on what I am able to imagine, and therefore what I am able to see.

    Quote Lajja is often decapitated with a lotus covering the stump.

    It means "shame or modesty" and is very similar to Samaya "bond of dignity".

    Vasudhara would likely be the first female Samaya one would make as a Nepalese Buddhist.
    I didn't know it was decapitated, I just thought she had a lotus for a head, but I can see what you mean. The article discussed that it was both an image of sexuality and an image of giving birth. The ancient version from the Indus River Valley has her giving birth to an ear of wheat, a theme the author traces far and wide.

    Quote Well, if I spelled it right, it is the name of Rudra in Vina Tantra, which was the main driving force in the Hinduization of Cambodia and Indonesia. I am not sure what the Khmer may have said.
    I probably should have looked it up before I asked. A corruption of Tumbara or Tambara, musician (Gandharva) to the gods Kubera and Indra. Carries around a veena.

    Quote It seemed like the Hindu sources make Vina Tantra "slightly" older than Wat building, but, if we have the same Rudra in MMK, this is one of the oldest texts, ca. 300. Again when I think if there is even a scrap of Prajnaparamita that can be carbon-dated to ca. 75, it is probably more like tip of an iceberg. Especially in the light of most teaching being spoken.
    Yes, definitely. I have learned that I am always better off assuming that the ancients always knew more about each other and traveled more than we can see from the present, and that the texts we have now are the subset that just happened to be in that building that sanded in in the desert, or just got lucky to be buried beneath the best tree.

    Oh, and that any animal with a 6-layer cortex can converse and learn, and that music and language were invented together so there has never been a culture that could talk but could not sing.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I don't have a problem with visualization. I think, "But you can remember things you saw, right? If I asked you without you looking at it, what color is the border in the White Prajnaparamita image you posted, you could think about it and eventually say, right? So you must have visualized it at least a little bit to do that?
    I remember the border because I have been rifling the set for a couple of years now since Himalayan Art decided not to read everything that is plainly written on them.

    I asked people in our dorm what color the inside of the elevator was. Only one knew.

    I am at best average and perhaps below average in visual memory.

    I promise I have seen auras, and can hardly use inner sight at all.


    Quote That's just the thing, I was curled up (both physically and in vision) and the center of the whirlpool/churning was the center of the curl, in other words, perpendicular to Avadhut and outside of the body.
    Ah, ok. Well, there is centrifugal and centripetal. The way occult color is at right angles to terrestrial color.

    Which way was it spinning?


    Quote Understood for normally, but in my shaking, I 'have' Prajnaparamita, I have only Sarasvati's lute, and I would have only a death-cheater indirectly.
    Without a player, how would we know whose it is? Nritya--Vina? Could be Matangi or Janguli.

    If it is there, it is probably the "subject" of Vinasikha Tantra, decapitation or Siracheda.

    Perhaps you can determine whose hands it goes into.

    I would say part of the purpose of Emptiness Mantra, is, the more the Vajra Gnosis, the more the other deities are likely to appear and perform. Sarasvati is not a Buddhist deity, so it, perhaps, has less bearing on her. Mrtyuvacana seems to embody it.

    Mrtyuvacana is a Wheel goddess, and I seem to recall you had something for a wheel when I posted an image of the similar-looking White Pratisara.

    The actions of White Prajnaparamita are rather minimal.

    There are exercises for "Bhava" or "feeling towards" Prajnaparamita, but, you would not do these if she is manifest. What is odd is that Vajrasarasvati 168 does not appear to have any Sarasvati but attracts Jnanasattva Prajnaparamita. The following exercise uses Prajnaparamita Samaya Sattva for Jnanasattva Bhava.

    151.

    oṃ nama āryaprajñāpāramitāyai /

    athātaḥ sampravakṣyāmi prajñāpāramitodayam /
    yasyāṃ bhāvitamātrāyāṃ nigrahaḥ sarvavādinām //
    dvibhujām ekavadanāṃ sitavarṇāṃ manoramām /
    ardhacarccarakeśāṃ ca śvetāmbhoruhasaṃsthitām //
    padmaṃ dakṣiṇahaste tu raktavarṇaṃ vibhāvayet /
    prajñāpāramitāṃ vāme vajraparyaṅkasaṃsthitām //
    sarvālaṅkārasampūrṇāṃ bhāvayen nābhimaṇḍale /
    aṃkārajñānasambhūtāṃ paramānandakāriṇīm //
    samayasattvaṃ niṣpādya jñānasattvasya bhāvanā /
    ṣaṇmāsābhyāsayogena prajñāpāramitā bhāvet //
    saptarātraprayogeṇa sarvaśāstraviśāradaḥ /
    lakṣajāpaprayogeṇa śataślokaṃ dine dine /
    karoti cāprayotnena śatagranthaṃ ca dhārayet //
    tatra mantrapadāni bhavanti - oṃ picu picu prajñāvarddhani
    jvala jvala medhāvarddhani dhiri dhiri buddhivarddhani svāhā /
    anena mantreṇa saptābhimantritaṃ kṛtvā ayācitamāranālaṃ
    ṣaṇmāsaṃ yāvat pibet / mahārājño bhavati / oṃ praṃ
    svāhā ayaṃ mantraḥ / akṣobhyamudritā ceyam /

    // iti śuklaprajñāpāramitāsādhanam //

    So in other words this generates her Luminous form from her original one. That is what we use for Completion Stage.



    Quote That looks almost more like Devanagari than Bengali although it doesn't look enough like Devanagari for me, I will ask a Bengali speaker.
    Probably Siddham, same way that most Sanskrit mantras entered Japan.


    Quote The page actually says that Bhuvantraya means three worlds, doesn't it?
    Well, yes, if you need to specify. Otherwise.

    bhuvan (भुवन) is alternatively transliterated as Bhuvana.

    Bhuvana (भुवन).—[bhavatyatra, bhū-ādhārādau-kthun]

    1) A world, the number of worlds is either three, as in त्रिभुवन (tribhuvana) or fourteen; इह हि भुवनान्यन्ये धीराश्चतुर्दश भुञ्जते (iha hi bhuvanānyanye dhīrāścaturdaśa bhuñjate) Bh.3.23 (see loka also).

    bhuvana (भुवन).—n (S) A world; a sphere in general as peopled whether by mortals or immortals. Fourteen are enumerated. See saptalōka, saptapātāla & caudā bhuvanēṃ.



    Sri Nagar, the abode of Devi, is in Svar Loka, which is what guides us to choose that she is in the third of the three world description.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    To me, it shows up as either obstacles or lack of focus. And a constraint on what I am able to imagine, and therefore what I am able to see.
    We are both glad the obstacles constrain themselves from being Mamos.

    If you "have" Ekajati Queen of Space Mamo Botong, then, you get this somewhat stable slew of objects and blur. If you did not have her, they would take on menacing forms and haunt you. They are "bound" as some kind of mundane detritus which can be burned or swept away.



    Quote Oh, and that any animal with a 6-layer cortex can converse and learn, and that music and language were invented together so there has never been a culture that could talk but could not sing.
    I am not sure about the argument, but I like the conclusion.

    I would think speech--words, especially as we have them now, takes much more development, and a reduction of thought to trivialities. Without words, I can still point at an apple and make some kind of ooga-booga singsong which conveys a much more powerful emotional blast than "May I have an apple?" I cannot order 300 kg of apples to be delivered by a diesel-burning behemoth, but, I can enjoy it a lot more with no sentences or words.

    Often when we get into words we get into trouble, since we try to impute inherent meaning to them, which is like grasping for an apple in the bardo and having it turn into five million dead grandmothers that eat your fingers.

    Being musically inclined, it is hard for me to conceive, why cannot everyone compose a new symphony in the morning and write in some spiffy lyrics by lunch? Or at least some ooh ahh wailing that fits? I can do things like this and use it to emotionally manipulate someone across the globe years after I am dead. After all, they are doing it to me.

    Words can be difficult and dangerous, especially with what I am doing now, which in many cases results in the unpleasant discovery that communication is useless since we are not actually talking about the same thing. However, a lot of what I fish for is "opportunities to enter"; I do not go around promoting or proselytizing what anyone could get from themselves out of a book, Avatamsaka or maybe one of the simpler ones; I have to live it and try to translate.

    And so after months of me not using aggrandizing language which sounds like "you are x, y, z", I have finally gotten a true enough confession from my party of concern that they have...anxiety, depression, and other qualities along these lines. So in other words, I have to make them comfortable enough to tell me, which is like asking for rescue, rather than me putting a diagnosis on them and forcing treatment. I am not a professional.

    I already know that gunk doesn't work since I have a lifetime filled with people saying "you are..." and then deciding what the answer is. Don't tell me what I "am", or what I think, or offer advice, or, preferably, bring nothing from this system of collapse.

    So when I *don't* say "you are", then, all I have to do is describe those things "which have been useful to me", which are 0% of the background civilization that has been given to us, and I can smite that thing from all directions since now it can be easily shown that forty years of beneficial experience from that thing reduces you to a neurotic catastrophe, making oneself and others around feel horrible.

    One of the choice terms I heard was "hopeless", which is about right, since it is really "helpless" that breeds "hopeless". That is pretty much my take on the "system that was provided for us". That is why I walked out of it when I was about thirteen. What we are talking about on these pages is "helpful". Most of it would of course be useless to someone who has never thought about it. Here is where I think good recordings of mantras and especially if they are set to good music are effective. It can quickly jump ten years into the "verbal" future.

    There are not that many and I cannot find any good Ucchista ones. There are several clips of someone speaking Hindi about it, but, so far I cannot find any good Ganapati or Matangi stuff (other than her normal root mantra).

    I listened to Hundred Syllable mantra a few months before getting into this thread, and it was rather strange that after I stopped listening and never attempted it, one night I was sitting here reading and writing and suddenly I just "knew" it. This is great because it works on its own, and, also, it makes one less note to haul into sadhana practice. And so I hinted at it to my friend in years past under the umbrella "Purification"--which has its ordinary meaning which we are going to attempt with some sassafrass tea and so forth--but I also see it as the axe to the roots of our problematic "lack of culture". Why? Because "purify the mind" really starts by releasing the grasp on everything outside us.

    Neurosis is like the opposite, is like constant worries about "something", so, the meaning should be pretty clear.

    "People" believe in this junk and all they do is wind up miserable and totally helpless about how to change it in any lasting way.

    I don't because I turn a deaf ear to whatever "that discussion" may be, and then, by releasing the phenomenal world, I know that just about the only thing of value is nourishing whatever is going on with the mind and life winds. That is why I can turn any bad thing around fairly quickly, since I am not going to wander lost in the apparent meanings of words, nor sit there with a blank sentiment of wishing for change, I just eliminate the stupidity and replace it with something that works.

    So, if I am doing Vasikaran, well, at this point it has effectively "hooked" someone's attention and persuaded them to tell me things I can't even ask for or talk about without risking a bomb. Now, I have to try, agonizingly, step by step, some way to change the underlying lifestyle so we are no longer ruled by garbage, but by good guidance. On my own, sure, it took me from when I was roughly thirteen until I saw the Lightning Deity, which means I now have a greater knowledge base and ability to travel there more directly. That was probably more than twenty years of flailing and working with fragments. Now I could squeeze twenty years down into one day if it will help alleviate someone's suffering in a lasting way.

    When we go the "other" way, we get maybe a day of "mediocre", followed by a rapid descent into bad karma for untold lengths of time.

    Often it is only intense suffering like this which will bring someone to us. That makes it more genuine than intellectual curiosity. Then we can show it is more of a practice and way of life than it is a religion or philosophy. That is something Tara would be avid about. Immediate salvage.

    I still have to stay on my toes and not say various things which could launch conflict. It is a conundrum of causing total destruction very nicely. Well, maybe I should just say total change of unnecessary bad habits. That is the thing when one becomes accustomed to Wrathful deities and the violent disposal of obstacles, that kind of thing is usually too strong for the average person, and so we should not really "push" it, but wait for the questions to come up.

    This is really important.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote I am at best average and perhaps below average in visual memory.

    I promise I have seen auras, and can hardly use inner sight at all.
    I can't recall ever being tested on that, except possibly an IQ test I was given as a child.
    I've never seen auras.

    Quote Ah, ok. Well, there is centrifugal and centripetal. The way occult color is at right angles to terrestrial color.

    Which way was it spinning?
    It was spinning clockwise w/respect to the top of the whirlpool. In terms of the snake with its face touching its tail the snake was facing forward to the movement. Since I became the snake, and briefly felt my nose touching my toes (which could not happen in physical, it was in clear body in a dissolve), the top of the whirlpool was my right side.

    Quote Without a player, how would we know whose it is? Nritya--Vina? Could be Matangi or Janguli.

    If it is there, it is probably the "subject" of Vinasikha Tantra, decapitation or Siracheda.

    Perhaps you can determine whose hands it goes into.
    In the terminology I use in my notes, this is an identification. The identifying entity enters me and until release controls my movements. The lute is that entity here. In a best that I can describe it sense, I become the lute. I'm not sure why I think it is Sarasvati's. You're right that it could be someone else's.

    Quote Mrtyuvacana is a Wheel goddess, and I seem to recall you had something for a wheel when I posted an image of the similar-looking White Pratisara.
    Yes, a pose of a sword in the left hand and a wheel in the right.

    Quote
    Quote That looks almost more like Devanagari than Bengali although it doesn't look enough like Devanagari for me, I will ask a Bengali speaker.
    Probably Siddham, same way that most Sanskrit mantras entered Japan.
    I did ask, it is very archaic Bengali (possibly proto-Bengali, not sure where the boundary is), readable haltingly.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote We are both glad the obstacles constrain themselves from being Mamos.

    If you "have" Ekajati Queen of Space Mamo Botong, then, you get this somewhat stable slew of objects and blur. If you did not have her, they would take on menacing forms and haunt you. They are "bound" as some kind of mundane detritus which can be burned or swept away.
    I can be a bit more specific, the blurring is an inability to concentrate properly on detail, the barriers are places that give off a feeling of uncomfortableness that make me turn away from them.

    I am not sure about the argument, but I like the conclusion.

    Quote I would think speech--words, especially as we have them now, takes much more development, and a reduction of thought to trivialities. Without words, I can still point at an apple and make some kind of ooga-booga singsong which conveys a much more powerful emotional blast than "May I have an apple?" I cannot order 300 kg of apples to be delivered by a diesel-burning behemoth, but, I can enjoy it a lot more with no sentences or words.

    Often when we get into words we get into trouble, since we try to impute inherent meaning to them, which is like grasping for an apple in the bardo and having it turn into five million dead grandmothers that eat your fingers.
    I was taking that from paleo- or archaeolinguistics. The oldest extant languages are the "click" languages in Southern Africa. Language is believed to have developed there before the hominids there fought their way out of Africa and eventually populated the world as homo sapiens. Music is believed to be of the same age, and was present in those hominids before they fought their way out. So both are extremely old.

    The cortex thing is just my own observations (and so could be wrong), but it is fact that 3 layer cortex animals are untrainable, whereas 6 layer are, and there is good evidence that some birds (6 layer) have language, and at least some non-human mammals do.

    Quote Words can be difficult and dangerous, especially with what I am doing now, which in many cases results in the unpleasant discovery that communication is useless since we are not actually talking about the same thing. However, a lot of what I fish for is "opportunities to enter"; I do not go around promoting or proselytizing what anyone could get from themselves out of a book, Avatamsaka or maybe one of the simpler ones; I have to live it and try to translate.
    Other than the things I've brought up in these discussions, I am not prepared to talk about what I have been getting out of Avatamsaka quite yet. But I get your point.

    Quote And so after months of me not using aggrandizing language which sounds like "you are x, y, z", I have finally gotten a true enough confession from my party of concern that they have...anxiety, depression, and other qualities along these lines. So in other words, I have to make them comfortable enough to tell me, which is like asking for rescue, rather than me putting a diagnosis on them and forcing treatment. I am not a professional.

    I already know that gunk doesn't work since I have a lifetime filled with people saying "you are..." and then deciding what the answer is. Don't tell me what I "am", or what I think, or offer advice, or, preferably, bring nothing from this system of collapse.
    Not so sure I understand what this is. If you are talking about me saying that about visualization, I was relating a feeling. I see all of the various ways of seeing something as sheets or layers (or curtains in one of the shakings I told you about), so it seems like if you can do the things which correspond to those sheets, you can visualize -- it seems like that to me. That's all.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Another beginner's question, if I may, sorry.

    How do you keep the flame steady in the mind's eye during candle meditation? Any tricks? Pointers?

    It continues to drift up and to the left...
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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