Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

[Old Student]

The ‘subtle contemplation of the lower orifice’ is dis¬
cussed at length in Tson-kha-pa’s commentary on the Pancakrama called “(idan rdzogs kyi dinar khrid” (PTT, Vol. 159,
pp. 120 and 121). It is the ‘arcane body’ as a practice in the
Stage of Completion; therefore it docs not involve experience
of the three Lights, which is called ‘arcane mind’ (cittaviveka );
rather, it is a preparation for that experience ol the Lights. The
‘lower orifice’ refers to the lower orifice of the central vein (the
avadhuti ), which Tucci ( Tibetan Painted Scrolls, I, p. 241) identi¬
fies as the perineum. In Tsoh-kha-pa’s work (op. cit., p. 120-2)
the ‘lower orifice’ seems to be equivalent to the ‘middle of the
gem’ (nor buhi dbtis) or ‘tip of the gem (nor baht rtse). In the
male this is the root of the penis. The ‘subtle contemplation’
(ibid., p. 120-4) involves contemplating at that spot a small
solar disk and on it a ‘drop’ (thig le, S. bindu) of substance having
three features : its color is blue; its shape is round; its size is no
bigger than a tiny grain such as barley and seen as the form of
one’s presiding deity (adhidera) brilliantly shining with five
rays.


the same spot seems to he called ‘site of the vajra’ (rdo rjehi sa
gsi), which he explains as ‘the lotus of the woman which is the
basis of the vajra (i.e. penis) in the sacral place’ (gsah gnas kyi
rdo rjehi rten yum gyi padma).

It is situated in the middle of the sacral place by the
excrement orifice. Its name is ‘Great Unborn Root*.
It is free from vijnana. The Knowledge-Body, selfless,
is the best of life born there, and is said to have the best
of animated beings.
Tson-kha-pa’s commentary (based on Alamkakalasa’s) ex¬
plains the ‘Great Unborn Root’ as the womb of the mother,
the place where one takes birth. It is unconscious, insentient
matter, hence free from vijnana. The Knowledge-Body of the
Intermediate State, which is selfless because devoid of any ego
substance that craves rebirth, so also devoid of the coarse body
(the vipaka-kaya ) that undergoes states, is the best of life born
there, and rides on the prana- wind which is the best of animated
beings. (That discussion may point to the yoga-praxis of a
woman as distinct from that of a man).

I need to learn some of these symbols. As for the points, this is something that has already been taught in some detail by the Dakinis.

1. Insight is the sense organs and means is the sense
objects. The yoga of their equipoise and enjoyment, is
pratyahara.
2. Insight is the sense organs and means is the Tathagatas. The yoga as their equipoise, is dhyana.

3. Insight is paramartha-bodhicitta and means is samvrtibodhicitta. The yoga as their equipoise, involving the
emanation and reunification of them in upper and lower
sequence, is prana-ayama.

4. When insight and means are as previous, the yoga of
their equipoise, holding the bindu the size of a mustard
grain in (or at) the three ‘tips of nose’, is dharana.

5. When insight and means are the Tathagatas embraced
by the goddesses, the yoga of emanating into the sky, as
their equipoise, is anusmrti.

6. When insight and means are the Dharmakaya and the
Sambhogakaya, the yoga of joining them with the Nirmanakaya as their equipoise, is samadhi.

This is a good list for me, I will study it.

I had to do a kind of overcoming intense distraction last night. What transpired from that is I kind of 'went traveling' in that I became various places. I'm not really sure whether this is all still part of learning 'action'. The definition of samadhi in 6. is interesting because it is not formless, but rather a union of a form and formless. In the Avatamsaka (in the chapter I'm on, which is mostly about dedications) it talks about expanding the body to fill the cosmos and expanding the mind to fill the cosmos separately (it makes separate reference during the same action).

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
As for one site, which says Daoism is 10,000 years old and the 10,000 y.o. Daoists met seven foot strangers, etc., Daoism, which was the focus of my big paper when I was studying Chinese, dates from only the 1st millenium B.C.E. with Laozi and Zhuangzi. (My big paper wasn't officially a senior thesis, but it was the length of a master's thesis in Chinese, I wrote it for a class on Laozi, where we had to memorize the whole text).

With Laotze, I am willing to consider "not an individual".

Similar to Zoroaster or Nagarjuna. For instance, Theosophy claims that the "historically known" Zoroaster was the thirteenth one, and that Laotze the compiler of texts did so as a proponent of a much older Laotze lineage. If I were to even try to claim that a single Nagarjuna lived 1,000 years, I would be faced with the difficulty that he attained Rainbow Body in Shantipur, Nepal around 650--so he passed away, at least once, from our point of view.

The Vedas are said to be in their twenty-eighth cycle of dispensation.

Maybe Nagarjuna is a tulku--probably should be. It would be like calling the same reincarnated individual "Dalai Lama" regardless of birth name. Obviously that is not consistent, if we say that Yeshe Tsogyal reincarnated as Sukhasiddhi, then you have a changed name with no apparent connection unless you study how the lineage works. Of course, in Tibet it can be found that feminine influence has been downplayed if not covered up. Only in Shangpa and Bodong is it particularly evident.

It does not seem to have been the case in India, at least by "word of mouth". If there was an important yogini at Dhumathala, there is not a ton of written material making her into a national pilgrimage site, but she must have been widely-known and revered anyway.



Here is another simple skeleton which may help for a quick view of how tantras get organized:


Amitabha does not have many goddesses--Kurukulla, Bhrkuti, Guhyajnana, and anyone such as in Pancha Raksa that may stand in his sector.

Akshobya has the most emanations, most of whom are Wrathful.

So we can quickly answer two simple questions--what are some basic Akshobhyas, and who has a Kalasa or Kamandalu, keeping in mind that historical Princess Bhrkuti was a devotee of Akshobya, this is actually kind of tight.

So there are two minor goddess forms equipped with an Initiation Vessel, Cunda and Bhrkuti. It does wind up in the hands of advanced tantric deities, but where is it coming from and how does it get there?

Cunda is said to be a Vairocana emanation when in the Isana corner of Manjuvajra mandala, but, her sadhanas do not say this; she seems closer to Amitabha, and then, of course, she enters Vajra Family as Sattvavajri and from there to Vajrasattva.

Now if I though Akshobhya was dreadful and difficult and I just wanted a basic peaceful interface, this is what he gives us:


Namasangiti and Manjughosha
Prajnaparamita
Yellow Parnasabari


So, yes, even though Manjushri "is" a Vairocana deity, he does something substantial in Vajra Family, and Manjuvajra is his Vajrasattva hypostasis. Akshobhya has command of two of the most major "text deities" and so, oh...rather approachable. Failing that, he is still behind the most currently-promoted Buddhist deity.



Bhattacharya said that the Sadhanamala contains the only known Cunda sadhanas and that he could not find an image of her major form from NSP; one has showed up, even if it is not that great, there definitely is a Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra who also has this Yoga mandala where Cunda looks like a blotch or square.


Cunda carries a Prajnaparamita manuscript in Manjuvajra mandala. Most of her forms have a Kamandalu. She does a Mula Mudra also called Cunda Mudra.

Most of her forms are relatively minor, but, she has Sixteen arms at the Patikera temple, also in a Prajnaparamita manuscript. He says there is an Eighteen Arm form and does not give an example. So there is like a massive gap between basic and advanced Cunda, which looks rather to be fulfilled as/by Sattvavajri.


Mayajala Kurukulla then for instance has the Pitcher. Kurukulla also has Cunda. So Cunda does get to employ her personal name, even if in a Lotus Family tantric retinue.

Here appear to be a couple Tibetan translations:

CundavajrI|{bskul byed rdo rje ma}: (PH) Cundavajrī. imperative|{bskul tshig }

Now since she only has the Pitcher as a basic Dharani or in her big form, arguably, the Bowl, and Satvvavajri's use of a Vajra are instrumental in turning her "conceptual" initiation into a real one. If we look at the Dharanis, it is an Amodhasiddhi Krama where Prajnaparamita has her standard, somewhat exalted appearance, compared to the rest, of whom Cunda looks to be initiatrix.

The Dharanis are part of Namasangiti, which also includes Vajradhatu, for which there ostensibly is a Dharani system called Vajraguhya, triggered by Sattvavajri and Vajradhatvishvari.

And so I hope there is a sense that Akshobya is "explaining" this, it is really Vajrapani doing the talking. Vajrasattva and Sattvavajri are more like the person experiencing it, and arise from Akshobhya.




The Pitcher is also held by numerous males, Agni, Brahma, Bhrigi, Frog Bhrihaspati, Sukra, Avalokiteshvara.

It almost looks honorary since most of those are non-Buddhist and not active in the rites, except Agni, whose significance is that he is used in a Buddhist manner starting from a Pledge Being. With him as Fire, and Avalokiteshvara is Lotus Family--Fire, the Water Flask has a certain path, perhaps this is the Fiery Water.

Bhrkuti holds the Vessel when she is with Khasarpana Avalokiteshvara; virtually the same Four Arm Yellow Bhrkuti as her personal sadhana. Solo Cunda is Patra Dhara or has a Bowl instead. Bhrkuti does not do a whole lot in her own name, so, her Pitcher is strongly suggestive as equivalent to this Khasarpana state.

There is Red Avalokiteshvara (emanator of Hindu deities such as Sukra) with Tara and Bhrkuti; Mayajala is thought to be his only fierce form known in India.

If Bhrkuti is an underpinning of Parasol and Cunda is still Cunda, then, the seeming lack of a Kamandalu from a large number of simple Taras points to the likelihood that that pair is highly significant.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)

This is a good list for me, I will study it.

I had to do a kind of overcoming intense distraction last night. What transpired from that is I kind of 'went traveling' in that I became various places. I'm not really sure whether this is all still part of learning 'action'. The definition of samadhi in 6. is interesting because it is not formless, but rather a union of a form and formless. In the Avatamsaka (in the chapter I'm on, which is mostly about dedications) it talks about expanding the body to fill the cosmos and expanding the mind to fill the cosmos separately (it makes separate reference during the same action).

Yes that is extraordinary for the Six Yogas.

Read it with Equipoise = Upeksha.

Paramartha Bodhicitta or Mahamudra Bodhicitta is actually the Namasangiti explanation of why Amoghasiddhi moves to the "top position" in a System of Six and becomes equivalent to the full-strength Samadhi of the tantras, same as the Sixth Yoga here.

Sky corresponds to Sadhana and Luminescence.

And, yes, I think that is the point. It "includes" formless into infinite nothingness of nothingess as a state of nature to be experienced, but, the major emphasis in the teachings is how to arise from this into Manifest Perfection, a "there-and-back-again", withdrawal and assertion.

[Rawhide68]

Is there a stop to this thread, no, of course, it isnt.
and thats good.

what?
Its all good

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
Okay, if this is what you mean by mental only. I guess I find it confusing because it is not my normal mental state to be body-less or to be maybe illusory body, if that is what my clear body is, but I guess it is. I just wasn't connecting that up, even though I know it is not a physical state at all.

Yes, again it is pretty tricky.

I would say I am a lifelong dweller with Dharmadhatu Vajra or Mental Object--I tend to delete the external environment and pay attention to what I think and feel. But that is not really Body-less, it is just ordinary waking consciousness.

If I can withdraw my senses so the body is essentially asleep but the mind is lucid, then that would be mental-only or Body-less.

When that is done to the point that it is not interrupted by sounds, touches, etc., it is Sampatti.

The likely origin of "Body-less" is Shiva incinerating Kamadev. Any tantra Hindu or Buddhist derives from the subjugation or destruction of Kamadev and Rudra; in Buddhism, Rudra's Heart is significant to Oddiyana and Vajradhatvishvari.

It does not sound to me much like you are stuck in the astral plane, i. e., a phantasmal blueprint of the physical world. So it must be some degree of Impure Illusory Body.

1) Vajradhara is not embodied
2) Only an extremely accomplished person can communicate with Vajradhara and it is a mark of accomplishment of bodhisattva pretty much.

Personally -- and this is from my experiences and only such reading as I had to do to try to understand them as they happened -- I would make a pretty big distinction between illusory body, if that might be roughly what my clear body is, and rainbow body, which I have been 'allowed to experience' in a limited way by seeing someone with a rainbow body (Mandarava), and by the experience (not done by me so much as done to me by the Dakinis) of the body all made of lightning and light, which was shown to me, a big difference from 'achieving' it, which is way out of my league.

Again, personally, they don't perceive the same at all. One is far more mundane than the other.

It still says to me that Mandarava is really your Guru.

One could argue that she reincarnated and should have a new name, such as Niguma.

According to Treasury of Lives, she meditated on the union of Hayagriva and Vajravarahi before going to Oddiyana, where she caused everyone to attain Rainbow Body. She then went to Shamballah to subdue hostiles. She departed to the Akaniṣṭa Paradise of Padmavyūha and arose as the supreme secret consort of primordial wisdom.

Here is an interesting modern Jetsunma report on going to Mandarava cave.

According to Wiki:

As Mandarava attained the vajra rainbow body (jalus), she is held to be present in the world now spreading and inspiring the Dharma through various incarnations in both the east and the west.

The dakini Niguma is considered to be an incarnation of Mandarava.

The female tertön Jetsunma Do Dasel Wangmo Rinpoche (1928-2019) of Kham, Tibet, is understood as an emanation of Mandarava.

In the USA, Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo was apparently recognized by Lama Orgyen Kusum Lingpa as an emanation of Mandarava. (author of the linked article).

Mandarava Lives and Liberation recent entire book in pdf.

If Rainbow Body is one thing and White Heruka is another, though they are held to be the same, they sound like different appearances. Heruka Yoga is roughly "Holder of the Vajra" with its dual meaning of Lightning and Five-colored light. I do not really know if they are alternate modes of perception, or why they have the same name in Tibetan. Since it is stated that Rainbow Body only means the realization, whereas Heruka represents development from initial to completion, that is why I lean towards Heruka for assistance.


I am not sure whether the two represent the varying influences of Parasol and Cunda, but, maybe.

Suryagupta's Tara two, "white as the moon", has an unusual twelve arms and a Kamandalu, which implies Cunda, although this one is more frequently called Sarasvati and in a lesser form, though still with a Pitcher.


Alice Getty reported what I always thought, that the name Cunda is neither Candra nor Candi:

"...the Jun-tei resembles the Tibetan goddess, Cunda or Cunti"

That is a plebian word--Cunti--a well.


Santideva mentions Cunda in his Shiksa Samuccaya:


Or let him recite the Cundadharani until he sees in sleep the tokens of the destruction of sin : namely, when he dreams of
uttering various cries, or partaking of milk and whey and so forth, vomiting, staring at sun and moon, passing through
the air, overcoming a black man, a bull, or blazing lire, beholding a congregation of Brethren and Sisters, climbing upon milk-trees, elephants, bulls, mountains, thrones, palaces, boats, by hearing the Law, the annulling of sin is to be indicated.

In the index, Bhattacharya calls her Bahubhuja Cunda. "Bahu" can mean many, but, ironically, it also means "arm".

Aside from her being in Kalachakra, she is only found with Manjushri (Manjuvajra and DDV) and Kurukulla.

Manjuvajra may be more complicated than I thought; Manjuvajra emanates four Dhyanis, so he emanates Akshobya, as well as Locana and Cunda. Akshobya however emanates Mamaki and Sattvavajri. This information is a bit different than by default visual appearance. And since Vajrasattva emanates Manjuvajra who emanates Cunda, then, Sattvavajri is an Akshobya deity, and so it looks like here is where Cunda will commandeer Sattvavajri, and then you would get no more Sattvavajri, and a Cunda who has been hypostasized.

By using this weird extra ring, Manjuvajra is probably dealing with dharanis of Cunda, Ratnolka, Bhrkuti, and Shrnkala.

Yellow Ratnolka is a Light goddess, holds a jewel, wrathful and nude, called Ulkadhara in China. Red Ratnolka is a dharani goddess holding a banner. In Shiksa Samuccaya, she is called Ka Dharani. Ulka is a torch, or, meteor.

Ratnolka is so big it is actually a Sutra in a massive list of Sutras with Dharanis. It can also be found as a separate Sutra from that of Dhvajagrakeyura. I had thought they were the same; STTS study enumerates Ratna Dharanis as Ratnottama, Ratnolka, Dhvajagrakeyura, and Hasavati. Dharani Samgraha mentions Ratnottama and Ratnosni. But so far, although it is quoted like everyone knows it, I cannot find a Ratnolka Dharani or Sutra.

I would stick my neck out far enough to guess that Dhvaja is just a tantric Ratnolka.

Hasa is Mirth and Hasavati is from Mahavutpatti, and Hasavajrini is from Manjushri Mulakalpa. It appears that many or most of the obscure-to-us names are in these sources.


In Sadhanamala, Dhvajagrakeyura is called Arka Vimala and Urnamukhi, and does a Maha Abhiseka of the Three Worlds and Three Guhyas, with a function:

sarvvatathāgatābhiṣekasamayaśirye

and uses a Kha Khahi mantra.

Urna is the wife of Puranic male Marici, and also a Vidyarajni who attended Manjushri Mulakalpa. It also refers to the Ajna.

Ulkamukhi is a title of Bagala, as is Jvalamukhi. The common Dhvajagrakeyura Dharani calls her Ulkamukhi; here is a Dharani that calls her Ulka Dharani. The version more like a Sutra calls her Ulka Mukhi.

MMK is perhaps older than Bagala, thought to have been written ca. 200; Jvalamukhi is the Tongue Pitha, so, it is archaic, and, one would have to say, significant.


Her further tantric correspondence is Vetali; cf. IWS 268 and the apparent intersection of them in Rinjung Gyatsa. 268 is a Blue Akshobya Urna Mukhi. So, for some reason she is Vetali in this form, particularly.

"Sirya" is "fragile", so, one would guess it is Asirya combined into All Buddhas' Initiation there.

According to Bhattacharya, there is also a Blue Dhvajagrakeyura that must be in the back of the book:

Dhvajagrakeyura is blue in colour, three-faced, and four-armed, with the right and left faces of red and green colour (respec- tively). She carries the sword and the noose in the two right hands, and the Khatvahga stamped with a Vajra and the Cakra in the two left, has brown hair rising upwards on her head which is embellished by a row of five shrivelled heads. She wears garments of tiger-skin, and has faces distorted with bare fangs. She has a protruding belly, stands in the Pratyalidha attitude,
has her seat on and glows like the sun, wears yellow garments and jacket, originates from the syllable 'Hun' and bears the image of Aksobhya on the crown.

He did not assume the yellow one is a Ratna form, and, it does not say, but it does in the old classification with Ratnolka. The blue form equated to Vetali is quickly glossed on TBRC.

The Light Goddesses are only found in Hevajra's Pancha Daka:

1. Suryahasta ;

2. Dlpa ;

3. Ratnolka ;

4. Tadit-kara.

The last being the main one we have found appearing to have static or plasma on her hands. One holds the sun, the next is hardly distinguishable from Dipa Tara with a "light stick", the third has a jewel that is either glowing or surmounted by a torch.

Bhrkuti is plain enough, and, although Shrnkala was elusive for years, we see that Parasol Dharani equates to her.

Bhrkuti appears to have a Caitya with Khasarpana, followed by the male Manidhari Vajrini, or, that is his mantra, his name is actually Manidharin or Sudhana--but he has near-identity to Pratisara based on this. She is two armed white with a yellow lotus with Padmanarttesvara 30. His corner goddesses are a trip:

pūrvakoṇadale padmavāsinī pītā māñjiṣṭha-padmadharā; dakṣiṇakoṇadale vajrapadmeśvarī ākāśavarṇā sitapadmadharā; paścimakoṇadale viśvapadmā śuklā kṛṣṇapadmadharā; uttarakoṇadale viśvavajrā viśvavarṇā viśvapadmadharā /

They are all Saumya. He is red and none of them are--there is a Sky and a Variegated one.

Min Bahadur Sakya says she is in Hevajra Tantra, probably due to Kurukulla. She is the end of Part One in Sadhanamala, and Dvitya Bhaga begins with Tarodbhava Kurukulla. Further, he says:

When she appears in blue colour, she is depicted as three headed and a six armed form.

In her right hands are a sword, an iron hook and a rod; in the left hands
a skull, snare and a Brahma's head. Reeds are believed to be growing in
the eight directions around her. The following is the hymn in praise of
Bhrikuti Tara:

Hail! with frown and angry eyes
Beating ground with fist and feet
Uttering the mystic \Hung '

Conquering the sevenfold foe

I don't know where he got it.

It is Tara Fourteen, which standardly is Bhrkuti which is why I questioned it since she has no wrathful forms. This explains it. Also, I had forgotten, but Suryagupta teaches Transference on Tara Seven, who, in Jonang, is Black Pramardani in Ratna Family. Called Vadipramardaka in another version--which also has the Wrathful Bhrkuti, or, gives her form. So there are two versions listed for that, and so on, none of them are cast in stone--all we get are the verses. But then if we look at the general agreements for Seven, the closest thing is Pramardani from the Pancha Raksa. Suryagupta goes so far as to use Sukhasiddhi for nineteen.

Pitheshvari Tara uses the Twenty-four Pithas, and Nyan's Green Tara is Six Limb Yoga Tara. So you could legitimately incorporate the majority of the Chakrasamvara system on just those two.

That is why Twenty-one Taras is so amazing. You can't do it wrong if you follow it as close as you can. And so if Pitheshvari makes more sense than the regular first Tara, who is similar, but unknown, having a similar form anyway, it would not be wrong to use Pitheshvari and learn her syllables and the Pithas.



He is however also the author of Life and Contribution of Nepalese Princess Bhrkuti which indicates her syllable is Bhrim. This is also confirmed by a German book. This is significant because it is botched in Sadhanamala. It of course means she is Jupiterian and immediately calls to mind the Yellow Tara Cintamani who also uses this.

By this name, she does not go on to advanced rites, which is about like saying we can truncate Jupiter into Ganapati into Avalokiteshvara. I think if we go back over how Jupiter is a "mini-sun", that Ganapati expresses Jivanmukta or Sound Conveyed into Light, and that the older spelling Avalokita Svara would mean Sound which is Seen, and then that Jupiter is not really the human guru anyway because he handles Rta or "natural order", this is the gate to Suci or Solar Fire. Suci is Marici's Needle or one of the Three-in-One Agni. In Buddhism, Agni's samaya being is Yellow.

Her sadhanas are miniscule but there is a Bhrkuti Mudra, spreading the thumbs in some way, related to Sesa:

pūrvavat hastadvayaprasāritenāṅguṣṭhena kaniṣṭhikānakhaṃ pidhāya pṛthak pṛthak śeṣā vajralakṣaṇāḥ, iyaṃ bhṛkuṭīmudrā /

That is attention-grabbing since Vajralaksana is not a subject. Laksana are the "marks or signs" of Buddha Qualities, etc., but to call it Vajra suggests the esoteric or perhaps sixteen marks of being receptive to the Four Noble Truths. The only other place it is even mentioned is right at the beginning related to Vajra Mudra:

tataḥ sarvavighnavināśārtham acalahṛdayam amoghacaṇḍaṃ vajramudrāṃ
003ḷ05 budhvā trir uccārayet / tatreyaṃ vajramudrā / dakṣiṇahastam
003ḷ06 ūrdhvaṃ prasṛtaṃ kṛtvā vṛddhāṅguṣṭhena tarjanyagramākramet /
003ḷ07 śeṣo vajralakṣṇāḥ / mantraḥ / namaḥ samantavajrāṇāṃ trāṭ
003ḷ08 amoghacaṇḍa mahāroṣaṇa sphāṭaya huṃ bhramaya bhramaya huṃ traṭ hāṃ
003ḷ09 māṃ /

I am not quite sure what it is or means, except it is that, which is geared towards Canda Maharoshana, the most wrathful and sexualized Akshobya, Acala Hrdaya.

Since that is unique, and, her Wrathful form appears to be unique to Twenty-one Taras, then she is probably significant to the incipience of Ten Wrathful Ones.



A Reddit translation of Dhvajagrakeyura flag shows Bhrkuti in her dharani. That is also in the Gretil version, but, it may just be an ordinary adjective and one could say Dhvaja is scowling. It is used in Sadhanamala many times obviously as an adjective.

It was Tara and Bhrkuti that Avalokiteshvara wept into manifestation, which is why they are the chief residents of Mt. Potalaka.

I tend to think Peaceful Bhrkuti refers to either the knitted brows of concentration, or, vibration of the Ajna.

Although she is used on flags, Dhvaja is actually supposed to be on something like this, permanently affixed to a post:









Here is a French collection of Dharanis seemingly for Parasol, Usnisa Vijaya, Jvalosnisa, Vimalosnisa, and Vairocana Sarvadurgati Parishodana. It says to take Refuge three times and generate Bodhicitta, and self-generate as Buddha. I am completely unaware of that unless it pertains to the Body Mandala of Sarvadurgati Parishodana. It has Mahakarunika and makes "Vyuharajaya" one word, so, it very clearly is not the meaningless "vyuhara jaya" as in most editions. Vimala says to build a stupa and recite this:

Om traiyadhé sarva tathâgata hridaya garbhé / jvala dharmadhâtu garbhé / samharana âyuh samshodhaya / pâpam sarvatathâgata samanta ushnîsha vimalé vishuddhé svâhâ

It is evidently a personal ritual, not a funeral. You pick an element, and are born in that family, liberated by it. Again, only four female Usnisas are known to be described, and that is the only thing I have ever found for Vimala. They are a category not really because they pertain to the crown center, but, because Buddha communicated them telepathically. Ultimately, yes, at least two of them are significant to the crown, but they are connected with other things as well.





I certainly do not believe I communicate with Vajradhara directly, but, I have an idea what the barriers are.

He does not have a mandala or retinue, and is usually shown with Eighty-four Mahasiddhas, or a whole Refuge Field. There is a Drikung Five Families version. In this Sakya piece, he is over a red deity that is probably Takkiraja:







Note that in Kalachakra, Takki couples with Cunda, whereas in Sakya, it is Bharati.

This Kagyu piece says he is under Samantabhadra and between two colors of Varahi:






This Kagyu goes far enough to name his consort Bhagavani:







In this very rare Kagyu, he appears to be with the Four Dakinis:






Here, the consort is a nicer Light Blue than the previous version:






This Sakya has perhaps one of the most significant details:








The red figure on the right is his personal Bodhisattva, Vira Vajradharma, with Drum and Skullcup. It is not to be confused with the Lotus Bodhisattva, Vajradharma, who just looks like a red Vajradhara.

This shows Hevajra and lineage, Chakrasamvara and lineage (with two Dancers), the Three Red Dakinis (over his shoulders and towards the upper right), and the first known Kalachakra syllable monogram.

Unique Iconographic Features:

1. Vira Vajradharma as a central figure.
2. The group of three Vajrayogini figures.
3. The group of three power deity figures. (Takki, Kuru, and Ganapati towards the lower left)
4. The inscriptions written on the cloth hanging of the thrones.
5. The two Pamting brothers seated on the same lotus seat. (towards the lower right)


So when we see a Drum with Niguma, or on the powerful Buddhadakinis, we know it is something that a Dakini does not automatically have; and Achi shows that it is almost the same as/replaceable with her Mirror. So those should be thought of as very important items.




Dandaron tells us that the Guhyagarbha Vajrasattva tradition comes from Indrabodhi twenty-eight years after Buddha's Parinirvana. And, he tantalizingly refers to the "Seventeen deities" as if it were common knowledge, without telling us anything about them.

Sarah Harding had made a point that the number of bhumi went up over time, and that perhaps it was always several higher than one achieved when one achieved the current highest one. There are 10 in the Avatamsaka and it is supposed to be the original document on the subject. But there were quickly more over time.

Yes, again, perhaps no one to understand it. Being born on the Tenth Bhumi means you should accomplish whatever is left in one life. By explaining it as simply another Four-fold initiation, then, it is just describing Buddha initiation. To me, that is easier to ingest than some of the systems of thirteen or sixteen which I have never really examined.

Practice appears to tell us to bundle seven together since the eighth is very challenging.


Maitri--whose version of the Prajnas and Vajradhatvishvari is considered one of the only ones (eighth in his Samgraha)--has a few songs called Charya Gita which retain Vajri terms in his seventh, Vajradhara song:

vajradhara panca buddha raya gatavara jhapa samudra samudra/

mandala sutra samprathana sanjali khamiva bhavasamam//

sasvata vajra sutrameprayeccha mandala sutra saprathayami/

simgasanasthita purna candra dhutiva abhimata sukha phala dayani/

ratnadhrka pita varna dahina varada kara asvarudha virajita/

mahamandala bhumi sutra naya hum/

arolika dahina rddhi siddhi/

dharmavajri rakta varna mayurasanasthita dhyana mudra anbunatha//

sutra patana me sodhayama danapati samraksata/

karmavajri jinavara abhaya mudra dharam garudasana sthita rayana//

tatva jnana vijnana siddhi vara mahamandalam sutrayami/



Mixing it with "-dhrk" and Arolik is from Guhyasamaja, so, it is like he blended this with STTS. Interesting that Aro represents Ganapati's two wives while seated on a Peacock. The phrase about Vajra includes Moon Dhuti--Messenger Initiation Mother Sourse of the Fruitional Bliss.

[Hym]

Posted by Rawhide68 (here)
Is there a stop to this thread, no, of course, it isnt.
and thats good.

what?
Its all good

Yes, it's an interesting journey between two scholars and adepts (?). We are happy to listen in on the discourses. May it be blessed and continue without abatements.

And Oh, yes, O.S.,

My transliteration is used for American English speakers only. There is no need to share it with anyone else, especially those used to another transliteration form. As you said, they get it quickly with the system they have.

[Old Student]

With Laotze, I am willing to consider "not an individual".

Similar to Zoroaster or Nagarjuna. For instance, Theosophy claims that the "historically known" Zoroaster was the thirteenth one, and that Laotze the compiler of texts did so as a proponent of a much older Laotze lineage. If I were to even try to claim that a single Nagarjuna lived 1,000 years, I would be faced with the difficulty that he attained Rainbow Body in Shantipur, Nepal around 650--so he passed away, at least once, from our point of view.

So here is the deal on Lao Tzu (Wade-Giles) or Laozi (pinyin): Someone penning under that name wrote in about 3-400 B.C.E. That was the time, during the Warring States period, when, "the hundred flowers bloomed," meaning that there was an explosion of thought and writing -- about how to govern society. It is the time when Laozi, Kongzi (Confucius), Mengzi (Mencius), Hanfeizi (Han Fei Tzu), etc. wrote. It is the time when the 4 books and 5 classics (sishu wujing) and the Spring and Autumn Annals (qunqiu) were written, the classic of the golden mean, etc.

When Qinshihuangdi (literally: The First Qin (Ch'in) Emperor) unified China for the first time in 229 B.C.E. he ordered the books to be burned, following the philosophy of the Legalists (Hanfeizi). So scholars and adherents hid them in the walls (literally). Archaeology is still turning up versions previously undiscovered when they newly excavate old walls. So, for instance, when I studied Laozi, the latest was that they had just discovered a complete version which was known as the "Cloth Laozi" because it was written on cloth. Discovered much later than that and the newest now to date is a "Bamboo Laozi" which is written on bamboo strips.

Previous to these, the version was one handed down in the dynastic period, and during the reign of various emperors, the characters would change because they needed to substitute for characters or sounds shared by the emperor's name. I read a (not supposed to be) hilarious paper one time analyzing the concept of yuan (元) in Laozi because all the 玄 characters had been replaced by 元 characters for that reason.

So there is a debate over who Laozi is, because the name just means "Old Master". There is no similar debate over the others -- Kongzi, Mengzi are historical figures with lasting lineages. But it is a debate over which person it is, not that the book (which is only 4,000 characters, so shorter than that paper I wrote) is written by multiple sources or is a compendium. The one which is thought to be such is Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu) which is a collection of stories and so is thought to be things handed down.

I need to save and come back so I will write more later.

[Old Student]

Maybe Nagarjuna is a tulku--probably should be. It would be like calling the same reincarnated individual "Dalai Lama" regardless of birth name. Obviously that is not consistent, if we say that Yeshe Tsogyal reincarnated as Sukhasiddhi, then you have a changed name with no apparent connection unless you study how the lineage works. Of course, in Tibet it can be found that feminine influence has been downplayed if not covered up. Only in Shangpa and Bodong is it particularly evident.

I have mixed feelings about the whole tulku system, but I would not be a bit surprised if the reason Niguma and Sukhasiddhi are seen as tulkus of Mandarava and Yeshe Tsogyal is because they worked together in a similar tag team format as the former two did, and because people were reminded of them. There is no such similar system in Daoism, and part of that is because the goals are different and the system does not have a singular person from whom all writings are supposed to emanate.

Bhrkuti holds the Vessel when she is with Khasarpana Avalokiteshvara; virtually the same Four Arm Yellow Bhrkuti as her personal sadhana. Solo Cunda is Patra Dhara or has a Bowl instead. Bhrkuti does not do a whole lot in her own name, so, her Pitcher is strongly suggestive as equivalent to this Khasarpana state.

When I was looking into Cunda, she always has either the Patra, the Prajnaparamita or the Kamandalu, if she had enough arms for them. She also is portrayed sometimes with dharmacakra mudra, in such a form she is so nearly indistinguishable from Prajnaparamita that art historians and scholars spend pages arguing for one or the other. There is apparently a similar argument on when a sculpture is Sakyamuni and when it is Aksobya.

[Old Student]

It does not sound to me much like you are stuck in the astral plane, i. e., a phantasmal blueprint of the physical world. So it must be some degree of Impure Illusory Body.

I've gotten the feeling over the past many months that it isn't always the same thing. It is sometimes like a complete substitute for my physical body, a body with similar attributes, and then there are times when it expands to cosmic size, or times when it branches into lots of bodies or I merge with the breeze or many of the other things that don't seem like the same thing, but maybe they are, I don't know.

It still says to me that Mandarava is really your Guru.

One could argue that she reincarnated and should have a new name, such as Niguma.

She doesn't look like Niguma. Certainly Niguma is important, and the connection seems to be involving reading Niguma to 'prepare' for encounters with Mandarava. Mandarava is not in control currently (they shift depending on the subject of training), currently things are being led by Ushas. They are about action, which I find quite difficult and have been making only slow progress.

Manjuvajra may be more complicated than I thought; Manjuvajra emanates four Dhyanis, so he emanates Akshobya, as well as Locana and Cunda. Akshobya however emanates Mamaki and Sattvavajri. This information is a bit different than by default visual appearance. And since Vajrasattva emanates Manjuvajra who emanates Cunda, then, Sattvavajri is an Akshobya deity, and so it looks like here is where Cunda will commandeer Sattvavajri, and then you would get no more Sattvavajri, and a Cunda who has been hypostasized.

If sometimes Cunda is Sattvavajri this (above) seems to confuse things. On a related note, I went looking for some direct connection between Ushas and Marici, other than the belief by some scholars that Marici is a later and more Buddhist Ushas. I could not find one, but I have been having a lot of Ushas lately and there was one distinct vision in which it seemed that Ushas expressed/emanated/birthed Marici. It was in response somehow to a not enunciated question about her and Marici.

Ulkamukhi is a title of Bagala, as is Jvalamukhi. The common Dhvajagrakeyura Dharani calls her Ulkamukhi; here is a Dharani that calls her Ulka Dharani. The version more like a Sutra calls her Ulka Mukhi.

Ulkamukhi literally meaning "meteor face"?

Although she is used on flags, Dhvaja is actually supposed to be on something like this, permanently affixed to a post:

A post or the lintel above a door? This looks like something that people have over a door.

So when we see a Drum with Niguma, or on the powerful Buddhadakinis, we know it is something that a Dakini does not automatically have; and Achi shows that it is almost the same as/replaceable with her Mirror. So those should be thought of as very important items.

Interesting. I would not have made a connection between a drum and a mirror.

Yes, again, perhaps no one to understand it. Being born on the Tenth Bhumi means you should accomplish whatever is left in one life. By explaining it as simply another Four-fold initiation, then, it is just describing Buddha initiation. To me, that is easier to ingest than some of the systems of thirteen or sixteen which I have never really examined.

I haven't gotten to the chapter on the Ten Bhumi yet (I'm on 25 it's 29). If it were dedications (which is my current chapter and there are 10), there are some dedications that have multiple subparts, so maybe this is the explanation. As for "accomplishing the rest in one lifetime", I had thought Sakyamuni had said this for the whole ball of wax.

[Old Student]

And Oh, yes, O.S.,

My transliteration is used for American English speakers only. There is no need to share it with anyone else, especially those used to another transliteration form. As you said, they get it quickly with the system they have.

Yes, I read what you said about them on the other thread (the one about speaking languages). For that, perhaps it's okay, but for especially languages as far from English as Chinese, it's good at some point to learn the standard transliteration.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Is there a stop to this thread, no, of course, it isnt.
and thats good.

what?
Its all good

Might not happen. Shaberon has a lot of texts at his disposal, and for me, there is new material added daily when I shake.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I have mixed feelings about the whole tulku system, but I would not be a bit surprised if the reason Niguma and Sukhasiddhi are seen as tulkus of Mandarava and Yeshe Tsogyal is because they worked together in a similar tag team format as the former two did, and because people were reminded of them. There is no such similar system in Daoism, and part of that is because the goals are different and the system does not have a singular person from whom all writings are supposed to emanate.

Me too.

However there are plenty of cases just around India of some child being intimately familiar with the details of someone else's life who had recently passed away.

If there is reincarnation, there would be tulkus.

The only similar system I am aware of is the five elders of the Druze.

This is why Bodhisattva is really the most sublime concept. Almost everything is really geared towards them, and/or us joining their ranks. HPB said if our third eye really opened during sleep in unity with the heart, we would remember all our past lives. Koothoomi said that some adepts have the ability to see those of others--followed by that he did not like doing it.

I think there is a "real thing", which again may suffer from human mistakes or exploitation. Such as unjustified "recognitions". Should we accept that Mandarava is one or more people right now? Is it really "her" or is it a mindstream in Akanistha which is able to enter the minds of others?

I don't really know the technicalities of how that works, and I think it is a dangerous subject due to tomfoolery. Well, dangerous in the sense of who knows how many "HPB reincarnations" have been asserted, or the ongoing activities of Morya, etc., especially since in Kama Loka if I say..."there is a Morya", then there will be one, and when everybody else energizes it, then you have a bona fide phantom. I bet this happens a lot.

Koothoomi said the adepts serve the Chohans who serve the Bodhisattvas. Since we have figured out what a Chohan is, that is entirely correct--Nechung oracle is like a lieutenant to the tulkus, Bodhisattvas, or Jangchubs who hold Gelug offices.

If I am not a Druze--which I can't be, since it is a closed society that only ever initiated HPB into it--then as a Buddhist, I have to believe that at least some of our Sangha has really succeeded and become Bodhisattvas themselves.

When I was looking into Cunda, she always has either the Patra, the Prajnaparamita or the Kamandalu, if she had enough arms for them. She also is portrayed sometimes with dharmacakra mudra, in such a form she is so nearly indistinguishable from Prajnaparamita that art historians and scholars spend pages arguing for one or the other. There is apparently a similar argument on when a sculpture is Sakyamuni and when it is Aksobya.

Yes...without color, Mahasri Tara is also indistinguishable from that.

The Cunda Mudra or Mula Mudra was said to "resemble" Dharmacakra Mudra without being able to tell the difference.

On Mahasri, it is called Vyakhyana Mudra:













Vyākhyānamudrā (व्याख्यानमुद्रा) is a Sanskrit word referring to “the gesture of teaching”.

The Vyākhyānamudrā (व्याख्यानमुद्रा) is another name for the Chinmudrā,

Also called Vitarka, and Sandarshana; it is not Buddhist in origin, but indicates discussion and transmission of teaching.

According to Wiki:

The Buddha preached his first sermon after his Enlightenment in Deer Park in Sarnath. The dharmachakra Pravartana or "turning of the wheel" mudrā represents that moment. In general, only Gautama Buddha is shown making this mudrā except Maitreya as the dispenser of the Law.

Dharmachakra mudrā is two hands close together in front of the chest in vitarka with the right palm forward and the left palm upward, sometimes facing the chest. There are several variants such as in the Ajanta Caves frescoes, where the two hands are separated and the fingers do not touch. In the Indo-Greek style of Gandhara, the clenched fist of the right hand seemingly overlies the fingers joined to the thumb on the left hand. In pictorials of Hōryū-ji in Japan the right hand is superimposed on the left. Certain figures of Amitābha, Japan are seen using this mudra before the 9th century.

In Sadhanamala, Dharmacakra is used only a couple of times in the intro and then with a few forms of Manjushri, six instances total. Vyakhyana Mudra is there a dozen times, on Manjushri and Prajnaparamita. Green Janguli's first line is:

atha bhagavatyā hṛdayakalpaṃ vyākhyāsyāmaḥ /

Mahasri is not literally what Bhattacharya said; it is:

vyāsthānamudrādharāṃ

Obviously it is a similar word and is in the Abhidharma:

(i) by definition (vyasthana), (ii) by discrimination (vikalpana), (iii) by experience (anubhava) and (iv) by perfection (paripuri)


So Dharma Chakra is Wheel of the Law, which has only been turned three times.

It may not be the best choice of words for Mudras generally, since if someone gives me a teaching or initiation, that is hardly the same as turning the Wheel, which will be done by Maitreya.

If you understand what Mula Bandha is, Mula Mudra spawns from it. That article says you are trying to find the androgynous energy in your pranic body. If you do the Zen mudras associated with martial arts, they are all elements, so you are doing Prithvi Mudra.

Yoga Anytime uses "Jnana or Chin" for what looks like Dharmachakra. Mula Mudra is of course about the Muladhara Chakra. And if you look at the page, Mula is just a slight push from Prithvi Mudra, which is intended almost the same way.

I can well imagine that Mula Mudra is well applicable to Cunda. Her Sadhanamala form uses Varada Mudra. Twenty-six arm Cunda does Mula Mudra with both of her main hands. She also has a Club--likely reminiscent of her relationship with the Pala dynasty. Here, he bothered to extract her from Manjuvajra in NSP:

"Cunda candravarna sadvimsatibhuja pradhanabhyam hrdi mula-mudram daksinairabhayam khadgam ratnadama bljapuram sararh parasum gadam mudgaram ahkusam vajram tripatakabhinayarh aksasutram ca ; vamaiscintamanidhvajam padam kamandalum pasarh capam saktim cakram khadgam tarjanam ghantam bhindipalam prajnaparamitapusta* karh ca vibhrati. NSP, p 49


"Cunda is moon*white in colour. She has twenty-six arms. With the two principal hands she exhibits the chief mudra l . In the remaining right hands she shows the 1. Abhaya mudra, 2. sword, 3. garland of jewels, 4. citron, 5. arrow, 6. axe, 7. club, 8. hammer, 9. goad, 10. thunderbolt, 11. Tripataka and 12* rosary.

In the remaining left hands she shows the 1. flag marked with Cintamani jewel, 2. lotus, 3. Kamandalu, 4. noose, 5. bow, 6. javelin, 7. discus, 8. sword, 9. Tarjani (raised index finger), 10. bowl, 11. Bhindipala and 12. the Prajnaparamita Scripture".

Bhindipala is a short javelin, similar to sakti--spear that she also has.

If he had not done that, Mula Mudra would have vanished into "the chief mudra".



Cunda is present at Ellora:

Ellora cave shows Sarvavarana (?) Tara. Ellora's Tara is with Mayuri. At Ellora, there is primarily Tara, Khadiravani-tara, Chunda, Vajradhatvishvari, Maha-mayuri, Janguli, Sujata, Pandara and Bhrikuti. Tara and Jambhala are door guardians, but it is at Ratnagiri that Jambhala unites with Hariti. In cave twelve of Ellora, a stout female figure is depicted wearing a waistband and headgear of a cobra. Khadrivani-tara also holds a cobra in one of her hands in the same cave.

There are extant relics of her Eighteen Arm form--and it is Devi Mahatmya which states that Eighteen is the worshipable form of a 1,000 arm deity. Her Eigtheen Arm form is in metalwork at Nalanda, and a stone image from Bodh Gaya. There are multitudes of her at Ratnagiri (presumably lesser forms).

In the Sutra, when you mutter her at a stupa, she is able to summon Aparajita and Hariti.

She is referred to as "Extreme Purity", whereas the word is not very different from chandala. Her origins lie with a yakshini cult in Bengal and Orissa and her name in Sanskrit "connotes a prostitute or other woman of low caste but specifically denotes a prominent local ogress". Her cult spread with the Pala Empire, eventually becoming important in Tibetan Buddhism and Tangmi.

As a Dharani goddess, Namasangiti says:

cundāṃ prajñāṃ ca padmāṃ ca sarvāvaraṇaśodhanīm |

This link will show a magnified Cunda in Manjuvajra mandala, and, it is nearly impossible to see what her mudra is. The Mongolian version is clear, but, it does not look like they really understood what it is supposed to be:






There are several similar images of sixteen or eighteen arms where you cannot see the mudra or it looks like dharmachakra; here may be the only one it looks like Prithvi or Mula (open in tab is *much* larger):







Evidently, the strangeness about her operating in the "tantricly-restricted" Muladhara is perfectly plain if you know anything about Yoga and look at her large form that way. Kickstarter of Samadhi according to the progression, origin of a Fiery or Fast chakra prodicing Light Blue goddesses? Seems fair to me.

There is a common tale of a male Cunda the Blacksmith, but, in Swayambhu Purana, Buddha enters Nepal and gets a female disciple named Cunda, to whom he tells the history of Swayambhu. If you look in the last chapter, the spelling is Cuda, but, it is followed by Cale Cule and Dharani Parama Vidya, and then:

etanpuṇyānubhāvena cūṃḍeyaṃ bhikṣuṇī satī|

pañcābhijñāvatī varṣairdvādaśabhirbhaved dhruvaṃ||6||


Marit--Anubha--Cum is the seed syllable of Cunda, which becomes the Nun Sati. And then the second line is something about the Five Knoledges being centered and aligned, Dhruvam meaning Pole Star, or, as in Dhruvam Arya Tara, which is Durgottarini.

If that means Sati in any way, they are standing on her vagina. Again, if not literally her, it suggests someone related/knowledgeable of/lineage of, etc., and Sati is the Pithas. Nepal is, of course, commercialized, so even a travel agent can say the Guhyeshvari temple is dedicated to Sati.

Well, I though Cunda was nonsense because she is going into a place characterized by Amoghasiddhi and Wrathful Green Taras such as Candi at a degree whose Peaceful equivalent is Durgottarini. I am not quite sure we can say Cunda "is" Candi, since she is really Sattvavajri or Vajrasattvatmika, etc., part of Vajrasattva, who "starts" this and keeps going to other things. Like Cunda temporarily shares a room with the Candi and Diptachakra types, who stay there. At most, we could say in some tantras, Karma and Jewel Family switch roles and Karma is in Nirmana Chakra and Ratna goes to the base. In most cases, it is an Amoghasiddhi center, meaning everything has been cranked to the stages Extremely Wrathful and Samadhi.

Cunda matches the Samadhi; it starts with "this" intensity, and is able to find new kinds.


Sadhanamala Cunda 130 is crowned by Vajrasattva and tells you to do Saptavidhanuttara first, i. e., what we learned with Mahattari Tara. She, currently, is Nepalese, same as Swayambhu Purana always has been.



Khandaroha is weird. She has all appearances of being in Lotus Family, but she is Mamaki. It is interesting with respect to Padmanarttesvara, since he is a tantric Avalokiteshvara who unites with Guhyajnana, surrounded by the Four Dakinis including Kandaroha. However, Pandara is used with Padmanarttesvara 30 and:

RG 152 is Eleven Face Thirty-two Arm White Amoghapasha, made of Hindu deities, who splits into Vishvesvara and Pandaravasini. His heart mantra refers to Pashupati and Padma Kula Samaya. Pandara is "similar in aspect", so White. She says:

Om Padme Pandaravasini Kunda Kunda Svaha

That is not Cunda, but Agni's fire holder.

Neither one of those represents Union, such as 30:










Now in going over STTS and Guhyasamaja, we found the West hardly ever changes, it is Red and occupied by Lotus deities. However, we can actually carve out a sequential rotation done by Avalokiteshvara where that is not the case:

Lakshmi Eleven Face Lokeshvara: Vairocana is in the West.

Amoghapasha: Ekajata (Vajra)

Two Arm Red Nartesvara 30: Bhurini (Jewel)

Sabara's Nartesvara and Vilasini: Ram Amoghasiddhi is in the West. He has the normal fire syllable associated with males and the blood symbol of red females.


Padmanarttesvara's consort can be found to be either Guhyajnana Dakini, or Vajravilasini.

Yes, ultimately it is Amitabha + Pandara, but that is on some higher plane; the more active part, the Bodhisattva, goes as described in sadhanas.

[shaberon]

Posted by Hym (here)
Yes, it's an interesting journey between two scholars and adepts (?). We are happy to listen in on the discourses. May it be blessed and continue without abatements.

Thank you but I refuse any titles. Yogin, perhaps, or disciple or devotee, but to the Buddhists I am not even an Upasaka, just a lay follower.

That being said, this is the only thing I can vouch for. I can't tell you what really happened on 9/11, or what the secret planet is. Such things are curiosities perhaps, but never did me much good. This does.

Were I to go to a formal Buddhist site, they would shred me for bringing in the Puranas and Upanishads, which I think is to their detriment. I look at it as a cumulative distillation of Sanskrit culture, of which Buddha is the most advanced exponent, who teaches tantra as Vajradhara. Creme de la creme. That might sound elitist or something, but, at some point I have to assert the meaning of our Refuge Vow:

This is the safest and most reliable guide for me.

I used to question it and react against it, which now I just call the Sixth Sin: that it is not important or that it does not apply to me.

The more important it is, and the more it applies, that is Vajrasattva.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I've gotten the feeling over the past many months that it isn't always the same thing. It is sometimes like a complete substitute for my physical body, a body with similar attributes, and then there are times when it expands to cosmic size, or times when it branches into lots of bodies or I merge with the breeze or many of the other things that don't seem like the same thing, but maybe they are, I don't know.

The alternate bodies or non-bodies are very unusual. I am not sure I have ever heard of it.

My guess is that they are what we would call Laukika Siddhis, Worldly or Mundane. That may sound unusual since they can be interpreted in terms of subjugating others or finding cash, which is probably their traditional origin. But like the Eight Fears, there is a tantric Buddhist re-interpretation, such as invisibility and rapid travel, which is the closest comparison I can come up with to your descriptions, other than the general worlds-within-worlds metaphor.

There are a lot of deities who are considered capable of granting them, but, only a few seem to really emphasize them, such as Kurukulla.

Illusory Body is usually trained with a Mirror and based in non-reactivity. Have someone alternately praise and insult you. This, of course, develops Upeksha.

It says one who spontaneously sees mandalas no longer needs visualization exercises.

She doesn't look like Niguma. Certainly Niguma is important, and the connection seems to be involving reading Niguma to 'prepare' for encounters with Mandarava. Mandarava is not in control currently (they shift depending on the subject of training), currently things are being led by Ushas. They are about action, which I find quite difficult and have been making only slow progress.

Dakinis are Activity, particularly in the sense of pranic currents between the Pithas. Not in the ordinary medical sense, but in the reversed tantric method. Each is like a new door to a different country. They are yoginis of the body until you realize her liberated nature able to move freely through space.

As to their forms, yes, Niguma has a dark appearance; the Purified White Heruka of them all is Siddharajni. She "is like" a white Guhyajnana, but again, by Purified, it means the same thing as the Theravadins talking about any object.

When I can visualize without effort something ordinary, I can just do it with a coffee cup, when it looks like itself--that is the astral blueprint of the material world. Then if I continue the meditation on this astral object, eventually, on its own, it will arise in a radiant condition.

Prior to that, I have an inability to visualize it, followed by a trail of fits and starts until being able to do it with supreme effort.

The deities are the same as the coffee cup, except they are pregnant with meaning and power.

They make mandalas on their own; world-systems gain the ability to realize one or more of these.

The difference between Ushas and Marici would be Method. Of course, we still believe the real, original Ushas is what she is, and may be of benefit to those who realize her, whereas Marici just means using a certain spell to do it, which produces:

Vajrasattva Ishvari

If Cunda is Vajrasattva's sister, consort, or both, Marici is in effect the most subtle wisdom behind all their antics in STTS, Guhyasamaja, etc.

If sometimes Cunda is Sattvavajri this (above) seems to confuse things. On a related note, I went looking for some direct connection between Ushas and Marici, other than the belief by some scholars that Marici is a later and more Buddhist Ushas. I could not find one, but I have been having a lot of Ushas lately and there was one distinct vision in which it seemed that Ushas expressed/emanated/birthed Marici. It was in response somehow to a not enunciated question about her and Marici.

Perhaps mind-born, a Prajapati, an Usnisa.

Possibly even sweat-born, a nectar residue.

Marici underlies the cosmology of all, since, as Dipper Mother, she is mother of the Rishis whose wives are the Pleiades, which is the entire origin of Maya and the descent from mental into physical matter.

I am not too sure we should think of them as "local deities" of our personal sun visible from earth; Surya and his conventional shakti would be that. They are Dawn wherever it happens. First as the visibility of form even from the animal kingdom, then, later, as a Noumenal apparition to consciousness, Luminous Mind and so on.

If success with Vajrasattva means the Dawn of Luminous Mind, it is the beginning of never-ending success under this Ishvari.

The way Manjushri is talking about Cunda best makes sense in the way of him bearing the teaching of Swayambhu Adi Buddha. This is exclusively Nepalese and cannot be borne out by the Bodhisattva Manjushri of the Sutras. I do not know Manjushri at all, but, Vajradhara is my Swayambhu, so it will all concatenate.

Without really having the lineage of Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra, we lack any text that would be more explanatory telling us exactly how it works. It will be almost the same as Akshobya Guhyasamaja, which is what we can delve into by way of learning something about it, but Manjuvajra has additional meanings, and is the method of Jnanapada lineage. I am not sure whether to call it the Yogacara lineage of Yoga or what. It consists of a certain sect which forces us to ingest all of the Kriya-Chara and Yoga vocabulary, techniques, etc., into the appropriate inner meaning which really works. Its philosophy is therefor the same as building all of the real ingredients of Seven Syllable deity, instead of simply initiating us into higher rites and telling us to try. It perhaps could be called the training of Heruka Yoga, until, when you "have" Heruka Yoga, it is self-arisen and purified. At that point you really can do the Seven Syllable, which is like constant fusion in the Bodhisattva Path. When you do it, then you can get the purified self-arisen other deities, you can do Completion Stage in actual realization.

Vajrasattva was originally drawn forth from Akshobya. Eventually, he is able to meander off on his own and emanate other deities, such as his own potential consort. He distinctly emanates basic Cunda because:

A Cause Crown-seals a Result.

There are just a few deities who are crowned by him. One could say in STTS, Sattvavajri arises from Akshobya, but if Vajrasattva gets a little more powerful and blends with Manjushri, he can throw her into alignment with his self-produced Cunda. This is the only place we can even find this apparent path of Cunda, which uses her most impressive form, so we would expect it to be really intricate. Manjushri is a much elder custodian of Swayambhu, whereas we can find historical Cunda initiated into it by Buddha himself.

She is not going to match any Hindu root chakra goddess or the like. This is utterly different, slower, and a lot more difficult. With Nairamta being in the Root of Swayambhu, and, being also the Sixth Principle, she is equivalent to this Vajrasattva class, even if an Akshobya emanation. Vajrasattva is like a personal experience or Atma Vidya of Akshobya deity. That is why he is basically forced to blend with Vajrapani and take on Wrathful Mode. As or with Manjushri, he is capable of displaying the entire Path up to Adi Buddha, which requires a Vajrapani or Trailokya Vijaya role, after his gaining Sword, Lion, Sarasvati, and Blue Sarasvati. The Sword is secretly a Visva Vajra, which implies he must have placed the Vajra Bhumi or Ground.

Namasangiti starts with Manjuvajra, who is "tied" to his "implied consort", Sparsha Vajra as Vajradhatvishvari.

Again we just follow the meaning that centering Sparsha Vajra means prana has been withdrawn from the surfaces and limbs, which is the Crescent or Bow of Inverted Stupa, which is marked by Banners. To say Vajradhatvishvari means having centered prana in the heart and able to begin a reversed upwards motion. And then you are placing Vajradakini on top of it all.

Those are not the Victory Banner, they are like gating banners, and so when you reverse the wind, they flutter. Therefor we are able to say this Crescent is a type of entity, phase, or stage, represented by limitations on the sadhana structure, and when you achieve this and get beyond into Heat, it is Pranayama, and much more complex. When successful overall to the whole body, it is Victory Banner, the Winds are ready to flow through the allowed exit of the crown aperture.

Ulkamukhi literally meaning "meteor face"?

A post or the lintel above a door? This looks like something that people have over a door.

Yes, Meteor Face, I think so. This is because in her upwards brown hair, Dhvajagrakeyura has an upper Smoky Face:






I have only seen her "dharani post" set around the edge of a village. I am not sure about home use; chances are, Pancha Raksa would be more popular. Dhvajagrakeyura has precious little use in the sadhana basket overall, so, probably harder for people to connect to. It makes sense because mainly she is tantric Banner and with a Smoky Face must have some amount of Karma Family energy. She does not have any basic or non-tantric forms and does not pal around in evolutionary retinues. The lesser equivalents would therefor be the other minions of Jewel Family such as Vasudhara or Ratnolka or Cintamani Tara. It is like she is a stage of Accomplishment of theirs.

I haven't gotten to the chapter on the Ten Bhumi yet (I'm on 25 it's 29). If it were dedications (which is my current chapter and there are 10), there are some dedications that have multiple subparts, so maybe this is the explanation. As for "accomplishing the rest in one lifetime", I had thought Sakyamuni had said this for the whole ball of wax.

Well, yes, Buddha did it in one lifetime since he was born in the state of Vajradhara.

It is, technically possible, on a Sutra basis, to reach the final attainment in this life, but even most Vajrayana practitioners will say they do not realistically expect this. Mahayana is an acceleration of older practices mainly due to praying to ripen one's karmic seeds. Vajrayana accelerates that intensely with the assertion you can do it in this very life, but, if it were all that easy, it would not be confusing to us about who or what is a Bodhisattva and a tulku; that would become self-evident. They would manifest mandalas and be our company without any effort from us.

Buddha's initiation is a role model of all the tantric sadhanas. This point is not emphasized enough, and it would be the response to the questions of outsiders as to why we have these rites. It is really only mentioned in Vairocana Abhosambodhi Tantra, and maybe one or two other places. So that is a major part in Yogacara-of-Yoga, it says that we are going to emulate whatever Buddha actually did that made him Buddha. Until that point, he was a Hindu, or Vaisnava, or just a generic Yogi.

Therefor I cannot say much about the Tenth, but, a whole lot about the first, Vajrasattva.

The Four Brahma Vihara are the same as in any kind of yoga, and never exit the sadhana arena:

Metta--Mudita--Karuna--Upekka

and these are a mandala ring at higher levels, but, they are basic synonyms for:

All Deities--Vajrasattva--Avalokiteshvara--Vajradakini Parasol


it essentially dictates the framework of all the teachings.

The Tantras do not really contradict Sutra Mahayana, or Theravada, or the Vedas, or this, probably the oldest, "yoga technique". I think all yoga in the sense of Raja Yoga stems from this. The Tathagatas must have accepted the key to their initiation in that Buddha was inspired by the recollection of Joy of the First Dhyana. Nobody gave him a Kalachakra initiation. He put a slight twist onto ascetic yoga which pleased them, and then he was able to emanate Kalachakra in a way that others could see it.

When that Buddha fractal is injected into our world-system, it makes more.

He was able to emanate Parasol in a way that others would know her.

As we can see, the first two names are Method entering non-dual union with Prajna, which is found in the Heart and then governed by Vajradakini.

Subba Row said that Prajna is what is represented by Death at Kashi. Its onset is a very eerie condition that could last for months. It is primarily represented by our blue six-arm deities. Now if we look at the Homa rite then we have a Buddhist Agni Yoga and, if this places him in the position of Smrti, the resultant Samadhi is Annapurna.

It is "usually" Chakrasamvara that is employed in order to do this, but, if you have Guru Yoga, Saptavidhanuttara, and Tri-Samadhi, this would be equivalent.

Annapurna is Parasunya, which simultaneously means Shentong Nirakara Vijnana Vada, as well as the complete operation of the Great Coronal Dome or Usnisa. The way in which Vajradakini and Usnisa are significant to Jewel Family is in the sense of Ratnaketu, Fiery Comet Tail, which is above the head. Dhavjagrakeyura Smoke Face is showing Samadhi as a gate to the large Flame-Swept Tuft. It consists mainly of Vyoma or Void, Higher Yoni Triangle within Void, and then a sort of arboreal paradise which I forget the name of (it may be Purnagiri Pitha), which consists of the Three Voids as discussed in our Yoga, beyond which is Para Sunya, or Maha Sunya, Sarva Sunya, or other synonyms.

There is brilliance of the aperture of the Crown, itself, and from there it relies on the action of Vajra Danda or Staff, which is an extention of the Avadhut or Central Channel.

The Danda is using Rainbow Guru as a propellor, if you see how his centers produce torque, the Danda is aiming this upwards through the aperture. It is affected much like the ray passing between the plates in the original television sets, magnetically, by whatever currents are rolling around in the brain. If you want it to be aimed precisely, Dhruvam, as powerfully as possible, Mahabala, then you should understand these as names of your conductor plates and why you don't want streams of karmic habit-patterns jumping around in the brain.

Part of the whole point in retinues of wrathful male deities is to shear the limbs of Catuskoti, the wrathful mainly means in the brain, so, they grind out these useless currents. The female equivalent is the resultant harmonious dance.

On a male, Rainbow Guru correspondingly does Vajra Surya initiation through the Tip of the Jewel. That probably really is the best way to snuff your karmic winds, they become exhausted and not replaced.

The equivalent deity for both sexes is Khaganana, who has an Eighteen Arm Saffron form.

With the blue, you have to endure that creepiness without any aversion, and for the orange, you have to enjoy it maximally without any attachment. The first results in Light Blue or Turquoise or Turquoise Lamp, the second, in Nectar.


So I think Dhvajagrakeyura really has no outer forms and that the face of smoky samadhi and upwards flame from the head are fairly precise definitions related to Victory Banner; is like a tantric transformation of the entire Six Family Wheel in Peaceful and Wrathful modes. Is like Vajra Varnani, Kama Dhatvishvari, the Lunar Nerve, the Grasped.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Does yoga activate the ghosts of the archetypes? I am finding more and more resistance to practice. As my devotion increases so does the resistance.

My body is quickly detoxing and readying itself but my mind is weak. My body says go, go go! I need this.
My mind says no no no! Not sure this is a good idea.

It is not like the first time at all...that time my mind was all in and my body thought it was all too much for it.

I am finding a lot of mental resistance to installing the temple within, again.

Do archetypes hold a grudge? Can they be appeased? And if not, can yoga be done without the mental aspect?

I hope this is not as rhetorical as it sounds when I read this post back to myself.

sorry to break the flow, but could use some guidance

[Old Student]

The alternate bodies or non-bodies are very unusual. I am not sure I have ever heard of it.

I'm not sure if this is even relevant, but I did run across this in the Avatamsaka, and maybe it alludes to lots of different bodies:

Great enlightening beings also dedicate roots of goodness for the
sake of all sentient beings to the attainment of various pure subtle
bodies -- the body of light, the body of freedom from pollution, the
body of nonobsession, the body of purity, the body of extreme purity,
the body of detachment from objects of sense, the body of ultimate
detachment from objects of sense, the body of freedom from defilement,
the body of beauty, the body of nonobstruction...

My guess is that they are what we would call Laukika Siddhis, Worldly or Mundane. That may sound unusual since they can be interpreted in terms of subjugating others or finding cash, which is probably their traditional origin. But like the Eight Fears, there is a tantric Buddhist re-interpretation, such as invisibility and rapid travel, which is the closest comparison I can come up with to your descriptions, other than the general worlds-within-worlds metaphor.

I wonder if any of those would be connected to this thing of being told to "Act!" which I am still trying to understand and do. So far, the only thing I have actually felt like I have learned from this one is that I am supposed to go to a place inside and effectuate the dissolve.

Prior to that, I have an inability to visualize it, followed by a trail of fits and starts until being able to do it with supreme effort.

The deities are the same as the coffee cup, except they are pregnant with meaning and power.

And they seem to be able to be visualized in several different ways -- in the bright but less distinct near vision, in the crystal clear far vision, or taking control of the body in an identification.

The difference between Ushas and Marici would be Method. Of course, we still believe the real, original Ushas is what she is, and may be of benefit to those who realize her, whereas Marici just means using a certain spell to do it, which produces:

Vajrasattva Ishvari

If Cunda is Vajrasattva's sister, consort, or both, Marici is in effect the most subtle wisdom behind all their antics in STTS, Guhyasamaja, etc.

This is a most interesting relationship when combined with the feeling of Marici as Ushas' daughter in my shakings, and then combined with the fact that in my shakings only Locana, Ushas, and Cunda's Prajnaparamita form are sitting, most of the rest are either standing,dancing or flying, or having sex.

I am not too sure we should think of them as "local deities" of our personal sun visible from earth; Surya and his conventional shakti would be that. They are Dawn wherever it happens. First as the visibility of form even from the animal kingdom, then, later, as a Noumenal apparition to consciousness, Luminous Mind and so on.

That's an interesting question, if someone who was a yoga practitioner were stationed on the Moon, would they do Surya Pranam when the sun came up on the moon or when it came up relative to the earth?

When successful overall to the whole body, it is Victory Banner, the Winds are ready to flow through the allowed exit of the crown aperture.

Are these banners that show up all the time supposed to be thought of like regular banners? Sometimes they end up being made of jewels or flowers or incense and I end up wondering what they are and whether 'banner' is the right translation.

So I think Dhvajagrakeyura really has no outer forms and that the face of smoky samadhi and upwards flame from the head are fairly precise definitions related to Victory Banner; is like a tantric transformation of the entire Six Family Wheel in Peaceful and Wrathful modes. Is like Vajra Varnani, Kama Dhatvishvari, the Lunar Nerve, the Grasped.

I have not heard the term 'Lunar Nerve' before.

[Old Student]

Maybe shaberon can answer, he's more acquainted with yoga practices than I. If I take from my own meditative practice -- standing -- there are times when either the body or the mind is, as you call it, 'sluggish'. I have to be perfectly honest, during my long time of standing, I've both given in, and overcome. Overcoming is more satisfying at the end of the practice and has its rewards.

Do archetypes hold a grudge? Can they be appeased? And if not, can yoga be done without the mental aspect?

This one I can only answer from my shaking side. I don't have archetypes, I have Dakinis. They do not hold grudges (they are also completely unforgiving if they have asked me to do something (training) and I haven't accomplished it. In my experience they do not allow appeasement. There is no form of spiritual practice I have done which can be done without a mental aspect, even if the mental aspect is to be silent.

Hope this helps, I'm not an authority, just relating personal practice.

[shaberon]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Does yoga activate the ghosts of the archetypes? I am finding more and more resistance to practice. As my devotion increases so does the resistance.

I would guess so. If that is Jungian terminology, my point is that Jung went as far as he could with our doctrines, but, in the end, didn't completely gel with all of it. My suggestion would be that we out-Jung him.

In Mahayana we generally call it "ripening of karmic seeds", but, in experience, the subconscious is really a cesspool, I have probably erupted and flushed millions of demons, including things like psychically hearing screams from when my parents got hurt when they were kids.

Cemetary Yoga is definitely going to produce awful hallucinations and dreadful voices. There certainly is a "terrible" aspect of the Path, which can potentially be ended. One of my greatest reliefs is simply ignoring the western media and press, which is like sucking neurosis bombs through a straw.

I know people are intimidated by this. I personally intimidate most of them. If I were to say non-mental Yoga, no, in our definition there is no such thing, since that would be a lower or introductory grade. What we call Kriya simply means "action" and that means more of an outer ritualistic performance which is less intense. I would suggest looking at things at this level until one is ready to move on. It constantly talks about Protection and Purification. And so we do want this in unlimited quantities because the truth is that reality is not going to be nice to us just because we would like it to. The Path is not made of butterflies and fairies, it is mud and filth.

Mantra is Manas or Mind + Tra "to protect". I hope that makes sense as an underlying reason why the more advanced rites are made of Mantra. I cannot visualize anything, but, when bad things happen, I can shake off violent rage with mantra in a few minutes. I have just gotten comfortable with it and can use it to delete any disturbing emotions, which is a major part of what we are doing, to prevent them by preventing their causes.

No matter what happens, the Tathagata never gives up on you. The smallest good thing always makes them rejoice.

[Ernie Nemeth]

They do not hold grudges (they are also completely unforgiving if they have asked me to do something (training) and I haven't accomplished it.

yes, this is our disagreement

Mantra is Manas or Mind + Tra "to protect". I hope that makes sense as an underlying reason why the more advanced rites are made of Mantra.

interesting, I can work with that, thanks


I don't do cemetary meditation but I do do subway meditation. Does that count? Lot of walking dead around...

[Agape]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Does yoga activate the ghosts of the archetypes? I am finding more and more resistance to practice. As my devotion increases so does the resistance.

My body is quickly detoxing and readying itself but my mind is weak. My body says go, go go! I need this.
My mind says no no no! Not sure this is a good idea.

It is not like the first time at all...that time my mind was all in and my body thought it was all too much for it.

I am finding a lot of mental resistance to installing the temple within, again.

Do archetypes hold a grudge? Can they be appeased? And if not, can yoga be done without the mental aspect?

I hope this is not as rhetorical as it sounds when I read this post back to myself.

sorry to break the flow, but could use some guidance

Actually, if your Yoga activates the Spirits of Archetypes, you’ll only experience smoothening of all matters , worldly and spiritual and no difficult or differential pulls at all unless you’re after something else.

Yoga is perfect unison of mind and energy and body and mind, or as Patanjali Yoga Sutras define it, “cessation of mental transformations”,
from simple to the deepest core levels of our beingness.

Whatever your discipline is about, it should make you happy. There’s no other condition to various disciplines than that have to be happy, harmonious and non violent activity to be called yoga.

It’s because mind and its energy is subtle and sensitive to every motion of ours. In its natural pure state, it’s happy and without boundaries.

The same state where we started as children.

So yoga exercises, physical or mental should never be forceful or crude, or done in hurtful way. Focus on your subtle energy and what it says, not on Spirits or Archetypes I suggest.

It’s winter now where I’m, without the heating we are generally used to so I can’t do much physical activity either unless I’d be hurting myself constantly,
it’s hibernation time it seems it has to wait till spring.

There are conditions recommended for yoga disciplines, in the Patanjali Yoga Sutra itself and Vedas in general that should be followed such as :


the best times to practice is during spring - summer ( warm climates) but avoiding temperature extremes

sunrises and sunsets are generally the best times of the day or anytime around those hours

practicing either in nature or well cleaned and beautiful room , away from crowds or having anyone watching you is preferable

practice after taking bath, clean cloth and eat light meals on that day

arrange some small incense, flower and fruit offerings that you can either eat or give someone after your practice

Do not drive cars or city transport on Yoga day if not necessary

Yes and never do yoga if too tired.

Take a good nights sleep instead and call it samadhi ( I do that, no pun intended).

Figured out after many strenuous mental exercises of past years that it’s the deep sleep - the non-REM sleep that we are often missing the most even while we are too tired or maybe because of it - and the one item that eventually restores all the rest of our functions once we can “get it”.

You may want to try conscious yogic sleep - the Yoga Nidra - and pretend your physical body is dead for an hour if you’re exhausted.

It works miracles but it too requires willingness and effort.


So cold , so late


🙏😀🌟

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I'm not sure if this is even relevant, but I did run across this in the Avatamsaka, and maybe it alludes to lots of different bodies:

Great enlightening beings also dedicate roots of goodness for the
sake of all sentient beings to the attainment of various pure subtle
bodies -- the body of light, the body of freedom from pollution, the
body of nonobsession, the body of purity, the body of extreme purity,
the body of detachment from objects of sense, the body of ultimate
detachment from objects of sense, the body of freedom from defilement,
the body of beauty, the body of nonobstruction...

That is definitely relevant!

Subtle Body = Suksma Sarira

Light Body = Rainbow or Heruka

Freedom from pollution = Vimala

Non-obsession I can't remember off the top of my head

Purity, Extreme Purity = Vishodhani and Parishuddhi

Detachment = Vairagya, etc.

And so forth. Again, we know there was an academic impulse which felt all of the Sanskrit had to have a small, exact match in English, which is certainly not the case. If only they would leave the original terms along with their "version" of it, we could decide for ourselves how well they are doing, rather than being told.

Yes, within the body or within Kama Loka there are certainly different states or spheres of mind, and so, for example, if we define one of these as Animal and decide we are not going to regress into it, then the things given are examples of the opposite of that. What is "above" mundane human consciousness?

I wonder if any of those would be connected to this thing of being told to "Act!" which I am still trying to understand and do. So far, the only thing I have actually felt like I have learned from this one is that I am supposed to go to a place inside and effectuate the dissolve.

Although Khadga Siddhi is the name for the Transcendent or Lokottara Siddhis-- Generation and Completion--the Laukika may be described as:

Khadga

Anjana (can see devas and other such beings)

Padalepa (speed)

Antardhana (personal invisibility)

Rasarasayana (nectar, ambrosia)

Khecara

Bhucara (Bali)

Patala

Last time I checked, Flitting appears to be a type of invisibility, and, the majority of what you discuss is a type of Khecara.

The Sanskrit terms I am able to find for Act as a verb are Abhini and Acar, Kriya and Karma being nouns.



Sword apparently having a dual role, the Laukika definition of Sword is "invincible in battle", and, we know several examples of this power being a Dharani which Buddha gave to Kaushika--Indra. Sometimes it was a weapon, sometimes it was protective (Dhvajagrakeyura). I can only come up with one example where a similar thing was gifted to Narayan--Vishnu, which is Mahamaya Vijayavahini, who is an utter violation because her only form is a 1,000 Arm War Chariot goddess in the middle of an army of replicas.

Invincibility is Aparajita, which is Parasol, a total state of combining all of these. At that point, the only thing left is Final Crushing of the Enemy, Pramardani, which is a Tara of Transference. If I can get Tara to work, she will Carry Me All the Way Across, since I can take those Sutras and Dharanis and her on a Yoga basis and I have a gazillion times more information than Buddha did when he did it.

I will fail, miserably, and probably wander in Preta Loka for incalculable eons, it does not matter, Tara will be there and she is able to manifest the same result as Jnanadakini does, Transference. I am so slow I will probably watch the whole earth vaporized by black fire and then I will lie dormant in the Alaya until some other bungling Creator sets up another ball of suffering. Maybe then I will figure out where Turquoise Leaves is, and at least this will quit happening so badly.

Jnanadakini is like a personal instructor of tantric experiences her way, whereas Tara has a form defined as Final Samadhi.

Khadga Siddhi is not discussed much; Skanda Purana ch. 59:

52-56. Hence, O goddess, the Liṅga has become very famous as Siddheśvara. Those men who devoutly see it get eternal Siddhi. They may gain the Siddhis of Añjana (collyrium), Pādalepa (smearing the feet), Pādukā (sandals i.e. ability to move about anywhere), Guṭikā (magic pills) and Khadga Siddhi (Siddhi of the sword). Mahāsiddhi (Ultimate Siddhi) is rare. There are other Siddhis too, such as those obtained through divine medicines, those through Mantras, Laghimā (weightlessness) etc. Then there are the Siddhis of piety, wealth, love and of salvation which is the most excellent. All these are obtained by visiting Śrī Siddheśvara. Thus the sin-destroying power of Siddheśvara Deva has been recounted to you. Listen to that of Mataṅgeśa.



Lalita Mahatmya ch. 36 Interior Chamber of Cintamani is all about using the Solar Plexus Manipura, which is physiologically identical, and, in its symbols, very close to Buddhist tantra if we think of it as Nirmana Chakra. She mentions what appears to me to be the likely reason for giving Ghri syllable to Mamaki in Vajramrita Tantra:

15-16. Behind that are the sun (named) Ghṛṇi, the temple of Oṃkāra, the deity Turīyagāyatrī (Fourth Gāyatrī) and Cakṣuṣmatī, O Sage—

Then the king of Gandharvas, Pariṣadrudra (Rudra of the Assembly) and goddess Tārāmbikā are stationed behind.


That is some kind of Ganapati and Tara.


The siddhis section will explain that there is Varuni in the Solar Plexus:

There are many Siddhis including eight Siddhis mentioned below and many others honoured by Yogins viz.—Rasasiddhi, Mokṣasiddhi, Balasiddhī, Khaḍgasiddhi, Añjanasiddhi, which is Pādukāsiddhi, Vāksiddhī, Lokasiddhi and Dehasiddhi thereafter.

All these serve Parameśvarī within that space. There are crores of Siddhis, O Sage, in that space between Aṇimā etc.

55. They are full of fresh youthful bloom. Their lotus-like faces beam with smiles (for ever). Their hands (palms) are like radiant Cintāmaṇi gems. They are always sixteen years in age. They have noble and highly exalted nature. They play about in their excitement due to inebriation.

This chapter will also cast Annapurna and Mahalakshmi in the ways that we use them. Siddhi is inexhaustible. There are about eight you can more likely describe and attain, and from there, who knows.


The way we would use them is to increase Prajna or Transcendental Wisdom, so, the Sword gets a double meaning, at first it points toward the center, and then it arises, so to speak, because the center points up. Once that starts happening, we go to and work on Lokottara Siddhis, and this second life is called Sword of Prajna.


Khadga is Karma Family's sign, although it is thrust into the public's face on the readily-visible Guhyajnana Dakini, and on the more specifically-Nepalese Mahacina Krama Tara.

In Sri Vidya, it is the guide or pointer to the center of Sri Yantra. According to a Khadga Mala Mantra article:

Kriya Yogis know how to rapidly achieve the evolution of one complete year of healthy living in one day. The chanting of this Mala mantra has a similar effect.

My personal, physical tantric experience is much more in Kriya Yoga or Laya Yoga or Soft Breath Yoga. And so I understand what he means--a type of Anuraga or component thereof. I do no understand his yoginis and chakra system. But I will have to agree that we are working in an 80-90% identical subject.

He says this is one you never chant without initiation. You can listen to it, but don't recite it.

I personally love Sri Yantra even if I kind of look at it with the eye of a Theravadin, as if were just a neat thing I was concentrating on. I would say it is helpful in seeing astral and occult light.

And they seem to be able to be visualized in several different ways -- in the bright but less distinct near vision, in the crystal clear far vision, or taking control of the body in an identification.

Pretty much so. The way tantras work and how they compound is that it may say self-generate as your yidam, or a wrathful deity, it may be specific or it may not care, before presenting you a new thing. Our Mahalakshmi is crowned by Yamantaka. And so that is pretty straightforward what she is asking for.

This is a most interesting relationship when combined with the feeling of Marici as Ushas' daughter in my shakings, and then combined with the fact that in my shakings only Locana, Ushas, and Cunda's Prajnaparamita form are sitting, most of the rest are either standing,dancing or flying, or having sex.

Yes, if you can get that close to narrowing a relationship between Locana and Cunda, that is quite close to the tantra, and if they are relatively immobile, that is a bit like Akshobya. If he is our Vishnu, then, Mahamaya Vijayavahini must be significant to him.

If someone were to say, what has Cunda got to do with Prajnaparamita, we can certainly say that the second simply turns into her own symbolic item, which is carried by others.

That's an interesting question, if someone who was a yoga practitioner were stationed on the Moon, would they do Surya Pranam when the sun came up on the moon or when it came up relative to the earth?

Haha, well, I suppose it would count in the visual sense. Unfortunately I wouldn't want it to touch my skin there.

Are these banners that show up all the time supposed to be thought of like regular banners? Sometimes they end up being made of jewels or flowers or incense and I end up wondering what they are and whether 'banner' is the right translation.

That is a good point, if we are going to say there are different types of Cups and Vases and so forth.

Apologizing for the shorthand, yes, Dhvajagrakeyura means Ornament on Victory Banner, which generally refers to a ring slid on to the upper end of its pole. Others are Cintamanidhvaja. I believe the ones on the Crescent are more like pennants, very sensitive to the forces of Wind.

Banner like the wallpaper-looking thing, or, Flag of whatever kind, are all Dhvaja. And so yes, there are different kinds in the sadhanas in terms of material or shape, but pretty much all under that category.

Like how Jitana is Curtains like decorative silky ones whereas Panjara is a Canopy as a protective dome. Panjara is one set thing in Buddhism, although it could generally mean "tent" or something.

I have not heard the term 'Lunar Nerve' before.

Those are the standards. Solar and Lunar Nerves twisted around the Avadhut. Hence the Sun and Moon at the top of tantric images, over the Parasol and Banner. You can see how it fits as each is protective and representative of the corresponding category. That is why those are the Victory items.

That is why Kamadhatvishvari is kind of singled off from other kinds of Ishvaris, she is the domain of Mahakala who is Panjara, the arcane wizard of them all, handling the Black Sphere.

That is why if you managed to trigger Vairocani and Varnani without being well-grounded and prepared for it, you might wind up completely schizophrenic. Those who actually witness the Dawning of Deities without any training, frequently result in temporary or permanent madness, H. P. Lovecraft style. That whole subject of his forbidden books and insanity may well have been based in his awareness of the Book of the Dead.

That manuscript has simply been handed to Evans-Wentz by some British soldier who got it who knows how. It means that it was possible to somehow pilfer such manuscripts, whether by conquest, theft, bribery, etc., and so when they start going off in the wrong hands, it is possible for someone to press it enough to get it to work, especially by forcing it with Hatha Yoga, and, well, that is more or less what I did as a teenager.

Fortunately, I started figuring out some of the non-dualizing self-corrections like you do, and instead of melting down, I wound up as a Buddhist.

Vairocani and Varnani trigger Tramen, which are animal-headed deities such as Vajravarahi, and, ultimately, Pisaci. It is like having Boars and Vampire Ghosts devour your soul. You generally do not want to see these in their current form. You want one that is specifically harnessed and constrained by magical commands. Like the people who used to summon Djinn or Demons such as Moloch and Azazel. If you slip out of that magic circle (i. e., mandala), then they simply destroy you. If you stay in the circle but your will (iccha or samsara) is submitted (vasikaran) to theirs, they will come in.

They are permitted to appear as hideous as they want, as long as they are on your side, destroying anything of the Skandhas that may try to bubble up. That is the meaning of Queen of Space. If you do not have her, I would not want to be you either during a profound tantric trance, or, when you die.


In knowing Illusory Body is generally co-eval with Dream Yoga, I don't really do either one, but, I might say I perform Sneeze Yoga.

Someone once told me that sneezing was equivalent to death in suspending all your processes for like a microsecond. If my allergies flare, I find sneezing is easily triggered by the sun, and I always do it as powerfully as I can. It is quick, but, tantrists assert it is the same thing, the series of voids or light exercises, and I strain to keep my actual eyes and my inner eye open when this happens, and I think they may be right. Done properly, it jams a lot of force upwards and causes an image, which, probably is an Abhisambodhi sequence at maximum speed.

The real thing would be like catching that pinnacle without expelling the sneeze and the intensity just keeps going.


Now there is such a thing as White Pratisara who is similar to Mrtyuvacana, and is the outer deity of Vajrapanjara Tantra:













but, in Sadhanamala, you could call her Sword Raksa of Ratna Family.




In my running conception, I think of her as stage two Muttering or a Crescent Goddess. She shares her syllable with Prajnaparamita (Pram). And so from using Prajnaparamita as a Dhamachakra, or, Vyakhyana or teaching moment of Om Ah Hum in Three Colors, Pratisara is the only place I know of where she changes her Throat Light to Yellow:

evaṃ vicintya tataḥ kāyavākcittacandreṣu
oṃ āḥ huṃ sitapītanīlatryakṣarāṇi cintayet / tataḥ
stānāntare candrasthapraṃkāraṃ vicintya nānāvidhadevatībhi-
r ātmānaṃ pūjitaṃ dṛṣṭvā tāvad bhāvayet yāvat khedo na
japet / khedo sati svahṛccandre muktāhāropamaṃ mantraṃ
paśyan japet / oṃ maṇidhari vajriṇi mahāpratisare huṃ huṃ
phaṭ phaṭ svāhā /


And so that has something to do with the appearance of her Vajrini mantra.

Her next exercise is a concise format of a familiar-sounding hypostasis:

First you Mutter her until she appears, and, then, while crowned in Ratna Family, she:

tataḥ svahṛdayān nirgataraśmibhir akṣobhyādīn sañcodyā-
nīya abhiṣekaṃ gṛhītvā mukuṭe adhipatim akṣobhyaṃ cintayet /

is the Vadin, explainer of Akshobya Abhisekha.

and then on to Vajrasattva mantra.


It then makes a very quick view of the basic Panca Raksa: Six Arm Harita Mayuri Vidyarajni in Srngara Mood, White Six Arm Vairocana Pramardani, Blue Four Arm Akshobya Mantranusarini, and Four Arm Lotus Sitavati. This is the format used in Bari tradition which states is is from Vairocana Maya Jala Tantra. Jetari and Bari further give a Fifty-six deity Pancha Raksha by adding:

Outer Mandala Deities:
- Guardians of the Ten Directions
- Nine Heavenly Bodies
- Twenty-four Mansions
- Four Guardian Kings



Next in Sadhanamala, a piece begins which is probably their assembled mandala, and it is here the text is missing for a few pages.

Compared to that listing, here are a few versions where Pratisara has a basic Pancha Raksa.






Vajravali version:








On its full thangka with Vasudhara, Usnisa Vijaya, and "unidentified", which we may have figured out somewhere:








It appears to me that the basic Quintessence mode of the standard formats is going to change. There is a triangular rotation, since, it looks to me like Pramardani is going to remain in place. What that implies is that she should greatly resemble the initiation of Final Samadhi. She seems to, because as weird as this may look to artists and historians, it at least makes tantric sense.

Now, because we do have, the famous, the weird Pancha Raksa 206, it specifically states that Blue Pramardani is in the East in Vajra Family. She is the Mahabala Krama, Raudravesa, and:

amṛtavare varapravaraviśuddhe

She is doing a Method similar to that of Ganapati which entails Purification by Nectar. She is in the East, meaning you have some type of prior bond with her, and she starts the process that is being unfolded.


Yellow Mayuri is in Ratna Family in the normal spot, who has something to do with Marici:

aśoka-vṛkṣopaśobhitā

which looks like it has to do with Seven Poisons and Raudra's Skull:

sasaptaviṣasañchādanakarī
saraudrakapilādirākṣasīvidhvaṃsanakarī

and she is a type of Nectar Eye, Amrita Vilokini and the Garbha or Womb of all Raksas.


followed by the big White Mantranusari who is still in Ratna Family and is Vimala and Viraj. These are all Maha forms and this one is staggering, almost as grand as Cunda. Vimala Viraj is Parasol. Who am I to try to tell her to get out of Ratna Family? This is equivalent to saying that Mantra Memory is a critical part of Buddha's initiation and this aspect of the deity is like a Vidyarajni and gets charged up by the best we can do.



Then there is Green Sitavati emanated from Ratna's syllable Tram and is:

tathāgatamukuṭinī

in Tathagata Family, and she is going to do Indriya Bala Vishodani.

Non-dualizing purification of weak sense faculties, Indriyas, into powerful ones, Balas.

Pancha Raksha in the large Bari mandala are like Sadhanamala, except Pratisara is White, and Mantranudharin is Red. By comparison, we found the Sadhanamala's White one from Nepal only a year or so ago. Aside from that, if you compare this to the previous mandala, the change on Pramardani is very evident, since she is still in the East but Blue:









It is something like a more peaceful meaning of the harsher Cemetery environment. You can harass this rite with any teaching of advanced tantric technique and it is going to refer you to or require exactly that. If I have a hard time with it, then, Mayuri Vidyarajni has volumes of Buddhist and pre-Buddhist material. In Pancha Raksa, any deity is allowed to take the center. You would make the Mayuri mandala by trading her with Pratisara.



Amoghasiddhi's Sword is the main item in this whole rite, Green Mayuri resembles him but does not mention his name, and he is crowded out of the major version which only has Four Families. It is heavily skewed into Ratna Family and so it would also make sense as a prequel to Vajramrita Tantra.

This is like a Sword Spell from Buddha. Like a charge-up to tantric Dhvajagrakeyura.

Vasudhara is very similar in relating to Vajra Family, but, she also does a wide variety of things. This Pancha Raksa is very focused in a way that sounds highly suggestive to me of round two of Muttering and the Crescent.


So I believe this, too, is directing you to do some kind of exchange between Jewel and Vajra Families. Mahabala is the Method you are training now, which, when successful, is equivalent to opening Amoghasiddhi Family. Pancha Raksa is a bit more compact summary of this same design which appears to be borne out in the tantras.


Mayuri is not done justice by the art site. Sita Tara has two companions, Marici and Mayuri. For a good view of Sadhanamala compared to other systems, here is Mahasiddha Avadhutipa of Lamdre or Marga Phala or Path and Fruit lineage of Sakya. Over his shoulders are White Cause Hevajra and Blue Result Hevajra.

Bari lineage contains Sadhanamala Sita Tara, and here, she is beside Atisha's Seven-Eyed Tara. Her companions are not shown; according to the site:


Along the bottom register beginning on the left side are seven deity figures. The first is Green Tara followed by a yellow female figure, followed by red Padmanarteshvara Avalokiteshvara. At the center is Hari Hari Hari Lokeshvara, white, with one face and six hands, followed by Black Lokeshvara with five faces and twelve hands. The final two figures on the right are both White Tara. The first has one face and four arms and the second, one face, and two arms and seven eyes.

Four Arm Sita does her unique Utpala Mudra:








Chinese Pancha Raksha where she is surrounded by Quintessences: