Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I'm surprised it isn't Vajrayogini. In the Phowa for the Chikhai Bardo, it is hers where the bindu goes on exit from the crown of the head.

She slipped under the radar.

Pracanda = Cinnamasta = Tri-kaya Vajrayogini.

Purnagiri is actually used in Vajrapani's Laghutantratika which is a primal text of the Kalachakra school as for instance Vimalaprabha quotes from it. And this book manages to quote from Dakini Jala Rahasya. The Pithas are listed male first here. It says that "dakinicakrasamvara" is the only translation of samvara = excellent bliss = demchog, which is the Tibetan name for Heruka in Jewel Family (and Vajrapani's samadhi in this case). Otherwise Samvara is sdom pa meaning union of upaya and prajna.

This text has mainly been preserved in Nepal having an interesting tabulations of the three nerves above and below the navel chakra where they join:

Kaya Upaya Candra upper left; Citta Sunyata Rahu upper Avadhut; Vach Prajna Surya upper right.

Mutra Vach lower left; Vis Kaya lower Avadhut; Sukra Citta lower right.



It refers to Vistara as being part of Hevajra.

Vajrapani is commenting Chakrasamvara into Kalachakra; he begins with the Four Jnana Cakra Dakinis and the Pithas and so on, and folds it into a Six Chakra system. He discusses the movement of yoginis in the Ganacakra, and is viewed as the pre-eminent spokesman of Sadanga Yoga.


It is a relatively large work, twenty-one chapters, I will try to pick through some more.

I was looking for something on Candaksi; this is how she is in Brahmayamala or Picumata:

"When the [flower cast into the mandala during initiation] lands on Rakta, the clan of Siva [i.e. Mahesvari] is enjoined. When it lands upon Karala, he is said to be of the brahma-clan [i.e. the clan of Brahmani], When it lands on Karali, he is of the clan of Vaisnavl. When it lands on Dantura, she is born of the clan of Kaumari. When it lands on CandaksI, she is born of the clan of Vaivasvatl [i.e. YamI]. By landing on Bhlmavaktra, the clan of the great Indra [i.e. the clan of Indranl] is enjoined. If it lands on Mahocchusma, he has the clan of Carcika [i.e. Camunda]. If its fall [indicates] Mahabala, the clan of The One Who Completes [the Mothers] is enjoined [i.e. the clan of Bhairavl]." The gender shift w ith the feminine °sambhava in 892b and 892b is suspect; m ost probably read °sambhavah. Subsequent verses give a concordance of the Mother-clans and the Six Yoginis of the mandala as well.

I'm asking these questions because of a conjoining that seems to be happening between two things that are hard to understand with what seems like two centerline phenomena, and with one recurring and now persistent vision where it seems like they are not in the right physical order, involving Locana and "if" it works, with Vairocana or Vajravairocani, or something.

When I go to look things up, there is some shifting around of who's with who. There seems to be two primordials, and a lot of switching around about consorts. I think at least some of it is that in some renditions, Vairocana is the only primordial buddha and Samantabhadra is instead a primordial bodhisattva -- that point of view is in at least one chapter of the Avatamsaka, for instance. The rest on the next post...

Yes, it is a bit lively.

Since you are no longer in a beginner stage, its terms no longer apply to you, except it is always provisionally true like a set of entry steps.

The main thing that I recall about rotation of yoginis is that Dharmadhatu Vajra asks to replace Sparsha Vajra as the central consort.

That is much like saying the altered, inner tantric energy sensitivity has been superceded by the sixth sense of mind alone and samadhi.

In the aspect of Vajrasattva, we would say he arises however you may know him and worms his way up to the point where this sixth element is his domain.

It may have various names, but, the main one is Nairatma, which is true with Vajra Tara and in Hevajra Tantra.

That is true that Samantabhadra may be considered a Bodhisattva.

Similarly, Nairatma is the Element and Dharmadhatu Vajra is the Object, which is the same thing feminized, a Prajna and her Bodhisattva.

That is probably the critical point. We see in one case, Dharmadhatu Vajra is harnessed as Padmajalini apparently in Jewel Family and works under Varahi Vajravilasini. But it is a "universal name" for an object of samadhi, utter mental focus on such a mental object.

The more it manifests, probably the more it becomes consort of Vajrasattva related to Bell and Avesa, and could be called Vajrasattvatmika or Vajra Garvi.

The position and role of Vairocana definitely changes in the tantras but importantly he is still the center of Vajradhatu when it arises as Maha Vajradhatu which is Sambhogakaya Six Family Wheel.

If you have a lot going on, you may no longer have a Quintessence, but a Quintessence of revolving Quintessences.

It seems like dakini humor would be to throw someone into something like that and see if they fend for themselves.


Vertical axis is not a thing that is initially important but then it becomes very important, and here, there is good reason to use the expression Dhruvam according to the Adwaita roster of Vasus, which would be "held" by Vasudhara:

Aṣṭavasu (अष्टवसु) refers to:—āpa (water), dhruva (pole star), soma (moon), dhava or dhara (earth), anila (wind), anala (fire), pratyūṣa (dawn) and prabhāsa (light).

Again, Prabhasa is the main cursed one for stealing the Kamadhenu (i. e. also an expression for Mental Object).


Here, it is not the physical north of the pole star that is important, it is one's personal "up" in the pinpoint aperture of the crown.


Dhruvam Arya Tara is Durgottarini, who does not have this axis but appears to be balancing one for it, by manifesting a Quintessence. Her relation to Dukha is Mocana (Liberation) and she appears to weave braids of Srnkhala--Chain onto the following entities:

Grahagrasta (ग्रहग्रस्त):—[=graha-grasta] [from graha > grah] mfn. possessed by a demon, [Harṣacarita iv.]

which is its only use in the book, and, slightly different from the Grasper and Grasped as applied to the two nerves.

Usually Graha is just taken for the malefic effects of planets, but Durgottarini seems pretty certain there are things that should *not* be given possession of one's person.

If I read through her, it seems to also indicate a Union mandala, since the center is Kham Tam, Amoghasiddhi and Tara. The rest of the Buddhas and Prajnas are not in union but beside each other; curiously, normal Tara is in the ring, probably adjusted to the Northwest, and her would-be companion is Akshobhya. Vairocana and Locana have already been given Earth in the East, so, Durgottarini has perturbed a form of Akshobhya tantra, and has, perhaps, "doubled" Tara, like we can find double Khandarohas and double Aparajitas.

Amoghasiddhi is Kha--Sky or Space in some more vivid way than Vairocana as the original teaching that Space is an Element.

Probably, it is because he is the result, Activity, which itself is largely "Sky-going" or freedom to move in space, along with the appearance of dakinis.

Dhruvam is an esoteric subject which ultimately "is" Vasudhara, and has precious little other mention, other than with Six Syllable Avalokiteshvara and with White Kurukulla in what looks like her Nyasa.

Since Vajra Tara is closely related to Vasudhara, then, it should not be too surprising she does have this axis.

In most respects it is a condition we would like to maintain.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
Instead, everything that wasn't compatible with being Locana was just kind of ejected into a non-existent being that felt like a piece of silk drifting in the wind but was less substantive, was more kind of nothing, and (I just came to one of those stops) the rest of me was her for a while.

That is what it means.

That is an example of Vajra Garvi or Divine Ego, which, technically, is the consort of Vajrasattva, but, it is basically the same process with any Yidam.

That is what I am doing when I Mutter Voidness mantra, except without the Yidam. I suppose it would be Mrtyuvacana, since she defines this as Parasunya and later is willing to sacrifice her personal form to Patani or "anyone appropriate" to do her deed, which uses Amrita from proficiency at Generation Stage.

Like carving a statue, getting rid of whatever isn't the right part.

So I asked about Locana and Vajravairocani because the brightness of this construct is initially moonlight and by the time it is really fired up it is more like lightning.

Varuni is Soma-drinking. The name of this drink is of course "Moon" and also:

2. Heaven, sky, æther. E. ṣū to bear, (as young,) or to sprinkle,

and so she is considered to be mixing Kha--Sky into Water, whatever the "liquid" really is. She is "that" starting point, if it works at all, or if you dwell in sixteen kinds of voidness constantly.

Vairocani is the fiery product of having used Varuni.


So the deity herself has a triply-nested aspect, being a self-generated form, a pose, and a powerful impulse from the sacrum.

I'm thinking the brilliant thing up my back that turns to crystal or diamond or something just before it becomes brilliant, and feels like Locana doing her possession thing, is her in conjunction with her consort somehow, which kind of makes it not Vajravairocani but Vairocana or something.

The Avadhut does not have to microscopically conform to any part of the spinal cord.

It is a subtle energy, which, if anything, the cord simply responds to.

It is, of course, very close, but the important thing is its balanced upwards ability.

Yes, the esoteric metaphor for Union is Contact--Sparsha, which is a slightly enhanced meaning from Sparsha--Touch. This is understood as Phassa from the Pali Canon:

Phassa arises together with every citta; it "contacts" the object so that citta can experience it.

When 'seeing' experiences visible object(s), phassa (which accompanies seeing-consciousness) also experiences visible object(s), but it also performs its own function. At that moment phassa 'contacts' visible object(s) and conditions 'seeing-consciousness' to see.

Phassa is different from what we mean in conventional language by physical contact or touch. Phassa is not the mere collision of hardness with the bodysense, it is not touch in the physical sense.

So when you have done the initial weird thing of "removing" Sparsha from North--All Surfaces and moved it the the center, Space, then it adjusts to any new meaning of Contact, any perception of Dharmadhatu Vajra, or, is the moment of the Earth Square of our Inverted Stupa connecting with the Stupa of the deity, etc., up to the meaning of tantric union, which in one sense is certainly Fire and Avadhut.

The real union is, yes, something more subtle than just a picture of meditational sex. It is happy like that, but, it has more to do with the mind being in realization of some condition of matter or the cosmos, especially subtle conditions.

Vairocana with Locana is Dharmadhatu Jnana:

the wisdom that apprehends the nature of phenomena.

The more you figure out the structure, the more you increase this wisdom, as a function of the first jewel of enlightenment, Dharma Pravicaya.

It is a little bit circular, like a feedback loop.

If it was not "them" to start with, by the time you do "this" to it, then you "have/are" them, by definition.

[jtcribbs]

Old Student, the clear body you saw at the beginning of this thread is the etheric body. I've seen mine too before, it was blue-ish shimmering clear/see through.

The etheric body is the next higher body from the physical organism body we all see in waking daytime consciousness. Still higher than the etheric body is the astral or emotional body, which if we are fully objective conscious in during sleep, we can travel through the astral planes of that higher world. Still further beyond that is the mental body...these are all interpenetrating bodies of different densities of matter on their higher dimensions.

[Old Student]

It says that "dakinicakrasamvara" is the only translation of samvara = excellent bliss = demchog, which is the Tibetan name for Heruka in Jewel Family (and Vajrapani's samadhi in this case). Otherwise Samvara is sdom pa meaning union of upaya and prajna.

Bliss is the definition I had heard, but that was actually in the context of Heruka Chakrasamvara.

This text has mainly been preserved in Nepal having an interesting tabulations of the three nerves above and below the navel chakra where they join:

Kaya Upaya Candra upper left; Citta Sunyata Rahu upper Avadhut; Vach Prajna Surya upper right.

Mutra Vach lower left; Vis Kaya lower Avadhut; Sukra Citta lower right.

This is interesting. It still has the navel at the center. Right now with what is happening, the navel (or slightly below it) is mostly the center of that mass I told you about. Although, when I actually found dantian for the purposes of a Daoist meditation in the early days of my shaking, it was farther back than I had looked for it.

Since you are no longer in a beginner stage, its terms no longer apply to you, except it is always provisionally true like a set of entry steps.

I suppose, although the reason for keeping them separate in my own case is one seems to be at the throat and one at the sacrum. I suppose it is possible to see them all as the same, but that would be in the way of the females all being shakti and the male primordials as all being, well, primordial.

If you have a lot going on, you may no longer have a Quintessence, but a Quintessence of revolving Quintessences.

It seems like dakini humor would be to throw someone into something like that and see if they fend for themselves.

It might have to do with "concentrations". There seems to be a push on to show that combinations of concentrations are possible, and produce different results. Like the thing where they had me do math for a while in the middle of shaking at my sacrum. Last night there were several different combinations of dreaming and shaking -- one or the other 'dominant' so that there was shaking in dreaming and dreaming in shaking and so forth.

Vertical axis is not a thing that is initially important but then it becomes very important, and here, there is good reason to use the expression Dhruvam according to the Adwaita roster of Vasus, which would be "held" by Vasudhara:

Aṣṭavasu (अष्टवसु) refers to:—āpa (water), dhruva (pole star), soma (moon), dhava or dhara (earth), anila (wind), anala (fire), pratyūṣa (dawn) and prabhāsa (light).

Eight vasus, I'm guessing that the various meanings of vasu from wind to ray of light to jewel to treasure, etc., are all operative in this one, but as different vasus?

In my previous training, the centerline (which we are calling the vertical axis) is very important, I've spent literally decades worrying about it, to the point where it is almost instinctually 'comforting' to straighten it at any point when I need to clear my head.

In my previous shaking, it is part of the 'pillar' (what it is usually called in my notes). I think I described it a bit before, it has two forms, a thick and a thin one. The thick one actually looks like a pillar, I am a part of the scenery when it happens, it goes very high, above clouds, etc., and one facet of it is that I can walk into it and be lucid dreaming and walk out of it and be back in shaking -- it is a post dissolve thing. The thin version is the one from which this particular centerline of light is formed, it is infinitely thin, silver colored, fairly bright, and if one gazes into it there are millions of people in it, and was in a few shakings characterized as the 'pillar of all souls'.

It is this latter one which gets ensheathed by the thicker formation, that rises up from my sacrum to my throat. The two together is what I was describing as a kind of yab-yum (anecdotally or perhaps not, 'ensheathed' is 'invaginated').

Dhruvam is an esoteric subject which ultimately "is" Vasudhara, and has precious little other mention, other than with Six Syllable Avalokiteshvara and with White Kurukulla in what looks like her Nyasa.

Since Vajra Tara is closely related to Vasudhara, then, it should not be too surprising she does have this axis.

In most respects it is a condition we would like to maintain.

It is in my respect a condition very far into possession, and something like the way I might imagine an all encompassing bliss like descriptions of clear light would be.

[Old Student]

That is what it means.

That is an example of Vajra Garvi or Divine Ego, which, technically, is the consort of Vajrasattva, but, it is basically the same process with any Yidam.

Okay. I suppose it's okay then that I'm being pushed to experience it in every conceivable mental state.

Varuni is Soma-drinking. The name of this drink is of course "Moon" and also:

2. Heaven, sky, æther. E. ṣū to bear, (as young,) or to sprinkle,

and so she is considered to be mixing Kha--Sky into Water, whatever the "liquid" really is. She is "that" starting point, if it works at all, or if you dwell in sixteen kinds of voidness constantly.

Vairocani is the fiery product of having used Varuni.

Okay, so a fire that comes from moon, that sounds right.

So the deity herself has a triply-nested aspect, being a self-generated form, a pose, and a powerful impulse from the sacrum.

I guess so, if by triply-nested you mean can occur in any of these forms (or all of them).

So when you have done the initial weird thing of "removing" Sparsha from North--All Surfaces and moved it the the center, Space, then it adjusts to any new meaning of Contact, any perception of Dharmadhatu Vajra, or, is the moment of the Earth Square of our Inverted Stupa connecting with the Stupa of the deity, etc., up to the meaning of tantric union, which in one sense is certainly Fire and Avadhut.

The real union is, yes, something more subtle than just a picture of meditational sex. It is happy like that, but, it has more to do with the mind being in realization of some condition of matter or the cosmos, especially subtle conditions.

Vairocana with Locana is Dharmadhatu Jnana:

the wisdom that apprehends the nature of phenomena.

This must be why all the exercises -- do this while you are dreaming, do this while you are shaking, do some mathematics and this at the same time, etc.
-- more than a picture of meditational sex. There is very little left except the ensheathing I mentioned earlier in the visual.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Thanks, jtcribbs. Do you know anything more about this hierarchy? I did have experience with the astral body a long time ago, my recollection is that it felt to me pretty much like my physical body except that I had moved away from my physical body. My clear body is not so constrained.

[shaberon]

When samvara is defined as "bliss" and Tibetans translate this as Demchog, it means the Jewel Family Heruka who is the source of wrathful deities after death.

Usually, Heruka is considered Vajra Family and one would naturally expect the wrathfuls to flow from here, so, why they pin everything to another family is a good question.

Yes, I would say Dhruvam consists of "holding" the Vasus in a balanced way, similarly to how, I may not know exactly why Jewel Family would launch the Bardo experiences, but, they are supposed to use All Families in a balanced way, and protect the crown, and/or are its fire, and the Great Coronal Dome.

The important centerline is not 100% Jewel Family, but, they must have a lot to do with its healthy function.

I agree it is always important as what we called in T'ai Chi "Body Upright", but, in most oriental practices, this is because the upright keeps going through the head, which is being held upwards, so the chin is slightly tucked compared to most western posture.

I do not know of another term for it other than Pole Star, which pairs with the astrological mystery of the beginning of Kali Yug when the Four Creatures of Ezekiel were valid and the Pole Star was Thuban in Draco. This important era "is" the Fixed Cross, in astrological terms, which is the Outer Wheel of Time.

Dhruvam is a sensation most of us would probably build bit by bit well prior to any Avesa, but, it is like you are getting the Fourth Activity and then just picking up the pieces of whatever remains obscure about how you got there.

Posted by Old Student (here)
Okay. I suppose it's okay then that I'm being pushed to experience it in every conceivable mental state.

I would think so. It sounds like you are absorbing the Divine Ego of Locana while releasing some degree of human ego. It is also "Locanadi", i. e. Locana and Others.

Okay, so a fire that comes from moon, that sounds right.

Something close to that, sure. After all, Avesa must be a heightened degree of Matta or Intoxicated Bliss. Varuni is not directly a "moon goddess", by any means, however her function is strongly intertwined with it.


For a survey of monuments at Pattadakai:

According to the Bhāgavata-purāṇa “When the charming Goddess Lakṣmī disregarded the demons they became dispirited, voluptuous, indolent and devoid of shame. There upon arose the presiding deity of wine, Vāruṇī by name, in the form of a girl with lotus eyes. The demons took hold of her, by the consent of Lord Hari”. (verses 29-30). But in the Vālmīki Rāmāyaṇa, Vāruṇī, is mentioned as the daughter of Varuṇa and emerged from the sea, and the gods took possession of her. (Bālakāṃḍa, 45, verses 36-38.) The crescent moon also has emerged from the ocean.


From a native view of drink:

Whatever be the scriptural provisions, the name of Soma is known as the god of wine but likeDionysushe could never attain that influential position among Hindu gods. Experts have shown that later on his position was shifted to Chandradev (the moon). It can be assumed that drinking party was arranged under moonlight. It was never allowed in daylight.

It is beyond doubt that Soma was at the top position in the mythological world of intoxication and beverage. His own brand was based on the moon. It is believed that in old days the moon overflowed with dazzling Soma and gleamed as brightly as the sun. It was also known as The Cup of Soma and all the gods created a noise to get it for instant immortality. Over the years supply of Soma plant reduced and the bright moon faded and just some dregs are left. As believed, the beverage master is now simply a potter around on the moon having the name Chandra.



In ages past, such as when Central Asia was flourishing, maybe everyone understood about how to use their Moon Cup.

Not now.

Again this makes Dakini Jala fairly interesting since here we do find a transparent crystal cup in a lunar theme.

Varuni is more like a synthesis with lunar components that continues to relate to the Moon as about half of itself no matter how far you go.

This must be why all the exercises -- do this while you are dreaming, do this while you are shaking, do some mathematics and this at the same time, etc.
-- more than a picture of meditational sex. There is very little left except the ensheathing I mentioned earlier in the visual.

Yes. Dharmadhatu could perhaps best be translated as "the Phenomena".

In the case of Dharmodaya, it has been specifically harnessed to work a certain way according to the dictations of Sambhogakaya, within a sadhana. On a Sutra level it applies generally everywhere as Dharmadhatu.

Dharmadhatu is the source of all phenomena, both nirvana and samsara.



From looking at Vajrapani, Claudio's paper does not translate anything. I suppose the purpose was just to give a Romanized Sanskrit text like Nagarjuna Institute does on DSBC. So it is only possible to glean a few ideas from what Vajrapani is saying. In fact, it turns out that Claudio's version is hosted as the accepted Laghutantratika on DSBC.

What is unusual is that Worship of Dutikas is a commentary on Chakrasamvara 6D. But here and in other places it looks like he (Vajrapani) is re-branding Chakrasamvara with some of the unique details of Kalachakra.

He describes to Four Dakinis as the Family of Vajravarahi, and then casts them in normal clockwise order but switches their positions so it goes to Lama in the South and ends on Rupini in the North. I do not think it is like that in any Chakrasamvara literature.

Also, he changed Dakini, who is in Vajra Family, to Vajradakini. This is a bit of a split since we have learned it as Parasol who is an aspect of Pandara.

He calls the Four Dakinis Bhoghinyas of cittavakjnanakaya vaktra bhedena. This means a concubine, a naga, or:

Bhoginī (भोगिनी).—A Rahasya Yoginī Devī.*

* Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa IV. 19. 48.



What seems important to the book is the theme of Eight Spoked Wheel, for which the eightfold Citta Vak Kaya circles are clearly intended to be practiced with the Eight Cemeteries.

Then what I notice in the Pithas is that for instance Candaksi is Purnima, and the Mahanasa and others are Purnamas. They are almost the same, except Candaksi is the time period:

[masculine] the same, full-moon sacrifice; [feminine] ī the day or night of full moon.

It may be talking about their seats or something, but, offhand, it seems like Candaksi is the "time" that several others "do their thing". Of course Oblations to Lunar Pitris are part of a Homa.

He then has a section on Thirty-six Kuladutikas although there are thirty-seven kulas probably because:

vajravarahi kulika...akulina dombini

Then the Four Dakinis are Four Castes, and, all of the dakinis get a similar "personality trait", such as svanasya matangi, yamadamstrini pukkasi, and mahavirya ganika.

In this case, Syamadevi is a Napiti or of the Barber Caste or Family.

Fierce Matangi has been channeled into Dog Face, whereas, whether Barber should convert to Raja Matangi, might be a little difficult to justify.

I don't think she can display herself as Raja Rajeshwari in a setting where everyone is low class.

They are then given mounts or animal affiliations, such as Lama Asvi. This meditation is evidently the Samaya to them.

They are then given Khecara Rupa which appear to be Bird affiliations, such as Rupini Kokila and Khandaroha Kokilaksi. This appears to increase the Samaya to Cemeteries, Amrita, and Samapatti.

They are then given Places, such as Vajravarahi Private, Vajradakini is Atma Pitha of the Heart, Lama is Para Pitha of the Throat, Khandaroha is Mantra Pitha of the Navel, Rupini is Tattva Pitha of the Head, and Heruka is Sarva Pitha of Jnana Cakra. This obviously changes the Four Pithas from Chakrasamvara where Tara is in the crown.

The Cemeteries are directly attached to this, they are Patala which seems to have Agni and Vayu at the center of the wheel.

It recurs again under the designation of what looks like the special teaching of this book:


Bogha, Laya, Adhikara, and Prabhutvam.

Then comes shuffling and movement, such as Rupini has her peculiar sequence when leading things, and so on. This is very long and I am not sure what it may say about how or why this is happening.


Then there is "Development of Location" which begins with Inverted Stupa. Then you are doing Four Face Heruka and Varahi, and now the Four Dakinis are in the Jnana Chakra, and the sadhana has at least tracked that Khandaroha arises from Mam. Then the Cemeteries are given as a Ganacakra and the Pithas as the three cakras (Ciita Vak Kaya).

Varuni and Khandaroha are weird because they are Mamaki even though they appear consistently as Lotus Family deities. This is almost the reverse of saying Pandara--Parasol is Vajradakini in Vajra Family.


Strangely, from DSBC is the only thing with "pitha" in the title, which is filed under Chakrasamvara literature. This is a mediumishly-long song, which seems to have nothing to do with Chakrasamvara, but does seem to set up an Eight-spoked wheel using what looks like the Eight Matrikas. It starts with Heramba Vinayaka Mahabala Krama, and scarcely can be called Buddhist at all, since it only says Varahi and not Vajravarahi. The Mothers as given in Pitha Stava Stotra are:

East--Prayaga Brahma Sakti or Brahma Savitri, Brahmani

North--Varanasi Mahesvari

Southeast--Kolhapur Kaumari

Southwest--Attahasa Narayani

South--Jayanti Varahi Kolarupi (boar form)

Naga (West)--Cirana Sakra Ishvari Mahavajradhara Devi

Maruta (northwest)--Ekamaksa Camunda Candi Candaksi Pracanda

Northeast--Devikota Mahalakshmi

Devikota and its relation to Khecari is similar in Kubjika Tantra and Buddhism.



It mentions an unusual Parasol or Chatra Bindu and that Four Pithas have become eightfold here.

The outcome appears to be Bhadra Pitha of Bhadra Kali.

She appears to summon Unmatta Bhairava. Then you have Ten Directions. It is a Vighna Mandala which is destructive or Nas towards suffrering, fear, etc.

He does not seem to get any Buddhist names, although he is also called Virabhadra, also meaning a horse fit for sacrifice.

Towards the end one finds:

ṛddhiṃ siddhiṃ śriyaṃ lakṣmīṃ vidyāṃ jñānaṃ sutādi ca |

buddhiṃ prajāṃ sumitrāṇi vardhayecca dine dine || 66 ||



It looks to me like an almost entirely Hindu Ganapati and Lakshmi wrathful circle, and I believe we found in Samputa the same out-of-order casting sequence for the Vajraraudris and had to figure out that "the third goddess is in the southeast" rather than where you would expect her to be.

[shaberon]

Here are a few more things from the rest of Laghutantratika.

It looks almost exactly to a Kalachakra-style tweak to the older Generation Stage that we mostly talk about, which perhaps is closer to Jnanadakini.

The brief intro does not tell us much about the practice, but, it does revere Bodhi as unchanging or motionless (aksara) bliss which is innate (sahaja). This type of bliss is not experienced by ordinary man, it is sublimated, Mahasukha.

Transfiguration of the elements is a severe obstacle. Again, this is still similar to Tumburu and Vinasikha, and I think the wrathful terms such as Bala, Mahabala, or Raudra Krama are mainly dealing with life winds in the face of wrathful force and whatever the elements really are.

Here, they taught me a new word for Raga: Concupiscence. This is actually a modern theological term which has almost the same meaning in Catholic doctrine:

In its widest acceptation, concupiscence is any yearning of the soul for good; in its strict and specific acceptation, a desire of the lower appetite contrary to reason.


Raga is the lowest form of Maharaga, which, unlike the former, is unchanging. Once delevoped, Maharaga sublimates Dvesa, which in turn purifies Moha. The transformed three unwholesome roots (akusalamula) sublimate Nescience (avidya) which is composed of the three. When this happens, it begins to annihilate the chains of Dependent Origination.

So that is not very different from a Sutra explanation, which we already have a ton of commentary about the Three Natures-or-Naturelessnesses.

The inner Jnanacakra where Heruka and Vajravarahi reside is evidently a change of terms and means Nirmana Cakra. It is the fulcrum between the outer and inner mandala. In most of our older commentaries, Jnana seems to be the upper, Mahasukha or Sahaja Cakra.

Instead, it says the Kaya Cakra is the Sahaja Cakra, which is the forehead area of Pracanda, rather than the crown.

This is a bit like flipping it around, but, Kaya Cakra has always been a head development which is applied to Nirmana Cakra, which is why we are doing Noumenal Yoga.


Heruka's Four Faces make these correspondences:

East, Mind--Citta, Dakini, Atma Pitha, Heart

South, Speech--Vak--Sambhoga, Lama, Para Pitha, Throat

West, Knowledge--Jnana, Khandaroha, Mantra Pitha, Navel

North, Body--Kaya, Rupini, Tattva Ptha, Lalata/forehead


Claudio notes these are a bit different than in Chatur Pitha Tantra (i. e., Jnanadakini).

The rest of Vajrapani's text after the big rotations is a bit more familiar.

X. Pills of Secret Elements is less a bunch of recipes and more Pancamrita.

It is a Bali Offering which uses Heruka to attract dakinis. After a seemingly standard way of doing so, there is an exclusive use of Vajravairocani--quoted here along with what he says about her:

oṁ vajravairocanīye svāhā| ity anena mantreṇa raksāṁ
kṛtvā svagṛham āgatya catuḥsaṁdhyāsu caturvaktramantraṁ japed dvāda-
śyām| aṣṭapadikaṁ trayodaśyām| caturviṁśatipadikaṁ caturda-
śyāṁ ca| tato 'māvāsyāyāṁ sūryagrahaṇe uddhṛtya naravasayā
mudgapramāṇāḥ gulikāḥ kuryāt| tayā gulikayā khānapānādi-
kaṁ kuṇḍagolakobhavena sārdhaṁ prokṣitaṁ viśuddhaṁ bhavati|
mukhe prakṣiptayā mukhaviśuddhir bhavati| gaṇacakre bhāvanākāle'pi
sarvarakṣā bhavati| iti gulikāvidhiniyamaḥ||


XI. Food and Drink in the Ganacakra brings Dombi and others.

It works with Ganadhipati, which is familiar from Ganapati Hrdaya. It goes to a Garuda Mudra to produce a Dharmodaya. It moves to Hariti and Ucchista Bali mantra.

XII. Practice of Mantras continues to be based from Gahvara cemetery.

It uses six, seven, and eight syllable Heruka mantras and then invokes Vajravairocani as the ten syllable mantra. Then there is Armor. It is a form of Homa and then you get Purification of the Four Faces.

This goes back to Vajradakini and refers to Gahvara and Lama and the other dakinis, who are now apparently esoteric forms called Vajralama and so on.

Then there is Purification of the Eight Doors, the cemetery yoginis, and then Purification of the Twenty-four Secondary Members. This gives personal mantras to each dakini, such as Candaksi is associated with Gahvara.

XIII. brief description of threefold Dutikas' siddhi

XIV. Meditation on Love-Perfection and the Initiations concerns Mahamudra. It goes into Kamarupa and Kamasiddhi, Prajnaparamita, Karma Mudra and so on. It goes to Hevajra and Mayajala. It is a long section which gives Skullcup Initiation to Adi Buddha and others, and picks up Nairatma as purification of the skandhas.

There are a few transitional sections until

XVIII. Sadanga Yoga

goes on for very many pages.

The final few chapters deal with Pledges (Guhyasamaja, Namasangiti, Eight Great Pledges, and breaking them).

The pattern of a Tri-samadhi and then the large wrathful Bali Offering is used here, basically the same as in all the traditions.


So we can see it stops at Vairocani and does not involve Varnani. Vairocani expands to a thirteen syllable mantra, and Varnani proceeds from that. So I think the Tri-kaya Vajrayogini commentary is a bit faster and more direct to this co-inhabitance or hypostasis.

The only difference is that Cinnamasta is not dealing with Union, whereas, with a male seed, that is the inevitability.

Kalachakra cannot be much different from Chakrasamvara, it just looks really weird and alien because it overhauls most of the pantheon into its own format. Even if there is nothing really wrong with that, it is still a big daily commitment, whereas by digesting the Chakrasamvara format, you can kind of go at leisure.

This text may be useful if it reveals the tenets behind "rotation", but, it may be best for the Sadanga Yoga section, which is the general structure of all the tantras. The character it imputes to the minor dakinis is perhaps also useful, but this is almost a matter of cut and paste, whereas his actual Yoga teaching may be difficult to fathom.

[Old Student]

Yes, I would say Dhruvam consists of "holding" the Vasus in a balanced way, similarly to how, I may not know exactly why Jewel Family would launch the Bardo experiences, but, they are supposed to use All Families in a balanced way, and protect the crown, and/or are its fire, and the Great Coronal Dome.

Great coronal dome meaning the dome of the head? How does that differ from the crown? It would seem to be the same.

I agree it is always important as what we called in T'ai Chi "Body Upright", but, in most oriental practices, this is because the upright keeps going through the head, which is being held upwards, so the chin is slightly tucked compared to most western posture.

I've never understood why people emphasize the chin tucking, it is a natural part of straightening the spine if it is done by lifting at the centerline. It is more natural to teach that one envision being suspended from the crown of one's head, then the chin ends up correct but so does the rest of the body.

Dhruvam is a sensation most of us would probably build bit by bit well prior to any Avesa, but, it is like you are getting the Fourth Activity and then just picking up the pieces of whatever remains obscure about how you got there.

So far, that's been the way, start from the other end and work backwards, we've noticed this before.

Something close to that, sure. After all, Avesa must be a heightened degree of Matta or Intoxicated Bliss.

Heightened degree is a terrific understatement. I actually spent a little time worrying about whether it was possible to be injured by too much bliss, I'm not convinced it cannot happen.

It is beyond doubt that Soma was at the top position in the mythological world of intoxication and beverage. His own brand was based on the moon. It is believed that in old days the moon overflowed with dazzling Soma and gleamed as brightly as the sun. It was also known as The Cup of Soma and all the gods created a noise to get it for instant immortality. Over the years supply of Soma plant reduced and the bright moon faded and just some dregs are left. As believed, the beverage master is now simply a potter around on the moon having the name Chandra.

In ages past, such as when Central Asia was flourishing, maybe everyone understood about how to use their Moon Cup.

I've heard accounts that soma came from amanita muscaria or some such thing. Thousands of years ago, before any Buddhism came to the Taklamakan (where Khotan is) they buried people with cannibis leaves. I'm guessing the moon thing comes from trying to use analogy to those substances to try to describe the moon thing more like what I have been experiencing. Not sure they are much of a comparison, except metaphorically.

The outcome appears to be Bhadra Pitha of Bhadra Kali.

So, when it occurs in the context of Samantabhadra, Bhadra means 'goodness'. So envisioning something called Bhadra Kali seems very strange.

[Old Student]

The brief intro does not tell us much about the practice, but, it does revere Bodhi as unchanging or motionless (aksara) bliss which is innate (sahaja). This type of bliss is not experienced by ordinary man, it is sublimated, Mahasukha.

I wonder what the experience of it is, if it is idiosyncratic.

The inner Jnanacakra where Heruka and Vajravarahi reside is evidently a change of terms and means Nirmana Cakra. It is the fulcrum between the outer and inner mandala. In most of our older commentaries, Jnana seems to be the upper, Mahasukha or Sahaja Cakra.

Instead, it says the Kaya Cakra is the Sahaja Cakra, which is the forehead area of Pracanda, rather than the crown.

This is a bit like flipping it around, but, Kaya Cakra has always been a head development which is applied to Nirmana Cakra, which is why we are doing Noumenal Yoga.

Which forehead area?
Before, we were taking Nirmana Cakra as being at the navel, weren't we?

XIV. Meditation on Love-Perfection and the Initiations concerns Mahamudra. It goes into Kamarupa and Kamasiddhi, Prajnaparamita, Karma Mudra and so on. It goes to Hevajra and Mayajala. It is a long section which gives Skullcup Initiation to Adi Buddha and others, and picks up Nairatma as purification of the skandhas.

I haven't seen Kamarupa in this kind of context before, this is personified? And of what relationship to Kamasiddhi?

[shaberon]

Crown Protuberance or Great Coronal Dome is, like the hair top-knot, representative of the flame tuft which begins to display from the top of the head, Ratna Sikhi or Ketu Sikhi.

Posted by Old Student (here)
I've never understood why people emphasize the chin tucking, it is a natural part of straightening the spine if it is done by lifting at the centerline. It is more natural to teach that one envision being suspended from the crown of one's head, then the chin ends up correct but so does the rest of the body.

Yes, exactly.

I believe it is also how a Dervish works.

It is like an infinite thread pulling you from "straight up" and this is broadly known throughout many physical disciplines.

Tantra is an esoteric adjustment or conformity to this.

Heightened degree is a terrific understatement. I actually spent a little time worrying about whether it was possible to be injured by too much bliss, I'm not convinced it cannot happen.

Also true. Dangers of Fire. That is why if necessary in sadhana practice, you add in a "cooling vent" which I thought might be portrayed by Sitabani transferring from Fire to Air.

There are probably other ways of doing it, if you skim the miscellaneous Homa rites for something that sounds related.

In the Inverted Stupa you get a Bindu Nada which is from Void and then a Crescent (Moon), which is Air, before the Fire Triangle. And when we get where this is a real apparatus rather than a couple of symbolic shapes, then, in a certain sense, we are trying to develop the ultimate Vessel and Nectar. Since this is a form of inner alchemy involving heat, I, personally, would definitely attach a relief valve for possible use. I don't think I have ever quite needed it. But I can see the value if one was to proceed.

I've heard accounts that soma came from amanita muscaria or some such thing. Thousands of years ago, before any Buddhism came to the Taklamakan (where Khotan is) they buried people with cannibis leaves. I'm guessing the moon thing comes from trying to use analogy to those substances to try to describe the moon thing more like what I have been experiencing. Not sure they are much of a comparison, except metaphorically.

There is that, as well as a southern Indian plant, and so on.

One can take this either way, as a mushroom tea or just a regular one that has been enchanted. One can transcend the outer symbol and use an inner equivalent.

So, when it occurs in the context of Samantabhadra, Bhadra means 'goodness'. So envisioning something called Bhadra Kali seems very strange.

Bhadra Kali is perhaps an aspect of Camunda and is one in the afternoon after Aparajita in the Horas.

She is part of Bhairava tantra I believe.

The destructive fury of the Mamos has been harnessed and re-purposed for good.

That is why they seek her.

Camunda is why I did not dismiss the Asta Matrikas and their particular pitha set. Compared to the inhabitants of some of the major pithas in Buddhist tantra, the Camundas involved here are:

cāmuṇḍā caṇḍikā caṇḍī pracaṇḍasurasundarī |

caṇḍāṭṭahāsā caṇḍākṣī pracaṇḍacaṇḍanāśinī || 32 ||


What is that? You have two kinds of Pracandas. One is a Surasundari (Varuni) which is related to the Candi(ka) names. The other is a Canda Nasini, Destroyer of Anger. Attahasa is loud laughter or "horse laugh" which is related to Candaksi "Fierce Eyes".

Pracanda is well-known as Cinnamasta according to Amritananda:





Chinnmasta is the indomitable force, the striking power of the Supreme. What is the difference between Her action and the action of KAli. When KAli is fierce and terrible, She is Chandi. Chinnamasta is more terrible than the terrible KAli, hence the name Prachanda Chandika. KAli works with the aid of KAla (Time). Chinnamasta destroys instantaneously. KAli is the prâna shakti (vital force) while Chinnamasta is vidyut shakti (electric force). She has Her seat between the eyebrows (ajna chakra) and commands the power of will and vision.

Chinnamasta is the power of lightning (Vajra Vairochani), and spreads Herself along myriads of channels enveloping the whole cosmos. When a being is created, this energy enters into the being through the Bramharandhra. Bramharandhram is the only apperture that connects the flow of energy in the body with that of the cosmos. The energy then spreads throughout the psychic body by means of nâdis¹. Of all the nâdis, the three important ones are Ida, Pingala, and Sushumna. Sushumna is the central nâdi that terminates in the Bramharandhram.

Chinnamasta is in the concentrated form at the ajna chakra. However, Her activity is in the Sushumna where She traverses up and down as the sustaining current of electric energy and power. The flow is restricted by the granthis. The knots have to be cut by the scissors which She holds in Her hand. Prachanda Chandika is the current through the Sushumna, while the charming Varini and the terrific DAkini are the currents through the Ida and Pingala.



So, he is relatively close to the way we have it. I am not sure I would conclude Vairocani is lightning, but, the source of realizations along these lines.

Ours is slightly shifted such that this "ajna" is a bit higher up since there is a distinct devi for "Brows".

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I wonder what the experience of it is, if it is idiosyncratic.

Aksara in this sense is unstable, decays.

Akanistha is the condition of Ksara, does not fade.

And so for us, we do not have Full Samboghakaya, which Buddha does, which means he emerged as Maha Vairocana after Dissolving the Voids.

We can Taste Sambhogakaya but then it will deteriorate and slip away, and so therefore we are only gravitating towards Bodhi rather than manifesting it as Anuttara Samyak Sambuddha.

And so in this level of meditation, we are trying to remain stable in the Akanistha.

Which forehead area?
Before, we were taking Nirmana Cakra as being at the navel, weren't we?

Pracanda is the upper front part of the head, I suppose like the majority of a quadrant from above the brows to close to the center.

Nirmana Cakra is still the Navel.

In this Kalachakra primer from Vajrapani, Jnana Cakra means the Nirmana Cakra, whereas in some previous tantras, it was synonymous for the crown center, which has a few different names.

Body Mandala or Kaya Chakra itself is based from the head, and, I suppose, "makes" an operational Nirmana Cakra.

So yes, this book or the Kalachakra subject also changes chakras in a couple ways compared to older tantras.

I get the point that the way that there are six chakras from the five-fold form of "inner couple" plus the four dakinis is due to the axis, the Heruka is in the head and Varahi is at the root.

I haven't seen Kamarupa in this kind of context before, this is personified? And of what relationship to Kamasiddhi?

These appear to be a layer between the Dutis and the Bodhicitta.

XIII. Threefold Dutikas' Siddhi concludes:

evaṁ jñātvā mokṣārthibhir yogibhir
antargatena manasā kāmasiddhir bhāvanīyā| iti tathāgataniyamaḥ||



And then some snippets from Love-Perfection and the Initiations:

tenāntargatena manasā
'cyutabodhicittena karmamudrāprasaṅge jñānamudrāprasaṅge vā
traidhātukalakṣaṇaṁ buddhabimbaṁ bhāvayed iti| traidhātukaṁ
kāmarūpārūpalakṣaṇaṁ sthiracalabhāvasvabhāvā-
tmakaṁ sarvākāravaropetaṁ bhāvayed aśeṣato yogīti| tad eva
prajñāpāramitā sarvākāravaropetā sā cāsmin tantre kāmasiddhir ity uktā
bhagavatā prajñātantratvād iti| tāṁ kāmasiddhiṁ bhāvayed yogī
| iha kāmo mahārāgo vajrasattvo mahārthaḥ paramākṣaraḥ| siddhir

(74)

mahāmudrā prajñāpāramitā sarvākāravaropetā iti| athavā kāmo
nirālambā mahākaruṇā siddhir sālambā mahāśūnyateti yogināṁ
svasaṁvedyatvād iti| karmamudrājñānamudrāsiddhyor uttarā siddhiḥ
| tāṁ mahāmudrāṁ kāmasiddhiṁ sarvajñatāṁ sarvākārajñatāṁ
mārgajñatāṁ mārgākārajñatāṁ daśabalacaturvaiśāradyādibuddhagu-
ṇadāyakīṁ bhāvayed buddhatvāya| iti tatrāntareṣu tathāgatani-
yamaḥ| tatraṁ tantrāntareṇa boddhavyam iti tathāgatavacanāt| asyaiva
bhāvanā dvidhā| pūrvabimbabhāvanā paścādbimbabhāvanā|
pūrvabimbabhāvanā dhūmādinimittabhāvanā bimbaparyantam|

So it indicates Vajrasattva experiencing Karma and Jnana Mudras, and there at the end you see Dhumadi (Smoke and others) Nimitta (Signs), which means it is going to teach the Dissolutions, which it does in Sadanga Yoga.


iha mantranaye trividhaṁ phalaṁ
kāmarūpasarvajñatāsiddhibhedena| tatra karmamudrāsiddhiḥ
kāmāvacaraphalam| jñānamudrāsiddhī rūpāvacaraphalam| mahāmu-
drāsiddhiḥ sarvajñatāphalam| vitarāgāṇām arūpadhātuphalaṁ
mudrātrayarahitam|

So the Kama principle appears tied to Karmamudra.


tena paramādibuddhe bhagavān āha-
kāmāvacarāṁ siddhiṁ sādhayet karmamudrayā| akaniṣṭhabhuvanapa-
ryantaṁ rūpākhyāṁ jñānamudrayā||

Akanistha principle appears tied to Jnanamudra.


narā vajradharākārā yoṣito vajrayoṣitaḥ||

A person becomes Vajradhara with the Vajra Ladies.

So far it looks a bit like the Initiations are relevant to Akanistha and Dissolution, and so the system of Mudras is built in.

Akanistha is the Purified Kama Loka.

Lakshmi is Kama Dhatu Ishvari.

Even with weird Catholic words for Raga and so forth, the same lever is intended, mortal desire versus Divine Desire, the latter having to do with propagating sublimated bliss or Mahasukha.

Kamarupa is the original Theosophical term for "astral body" in the sense of "not connected to physical form".

Most of the time it is an indistinct blob of various "stuff". It becomes a body or vehicle under two conditions: conscious projection by an adept (which is Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body), or death. In those cases it will default to resembling the person who made it, although it can be changed.

It is fairly straightforward, "one's form in the Kama Loka".

[Old Student]

Will go back and do the other comments later:

iha mantranaye trividhaṁ phalaṁ

Here is the advice (method) for the three 'fruits' (pujas)

kāmarūpasarvajñatāsiddhibhedena| tatra

kama, rupa, sarvajnata siddhi split or distinguished here
(kama love/desire, rupa form. sarvajnata omniscience)

karmamudrāsiddhiḥ kāmāvacaraphalam|

The karmamudra siddhi is the phalam of the realm of desire (kamavacara)

jñānamudrāsiddhī rūpāvacaraphalam |

The jnanamudra siddhi is the phalam of the realm of form (rupavacara)

mahāmudrāsiddhiḥ sarvajñatāphalam|

The mahamudra siddhi is the phalam of omniscience (sarvajnata)

vitarāgāṇām arūpadhātuphalaṁ mudrātrayarahitam|

The completely tranquil and dispassionate phalam the place of mudra dissolution.

tena paramādibuddhe bhagavān

By the pure non-dual wisdom of god

āhakāmāvacarāṁ siddhiṁ sādhayet karmamudrayā|

drawing toward the realm of desire (kamavacara) siddhi is acquired by karmamudra

akaniṣṭhabhuvanaparyantaṁ rūpākhyāṁ jñānamudrayā

||
As far as the land of the Akanisthas, the announcement of the form (?) by jnanamudra.

It seems like an explanation that karmamudra gives power over kamavacara, jnanamudra gives power over rupavacara, and mahamudra gives sarvajnati or omniscience.

[Old Student]

It is like an infinite thread pulling you from "straight up" and this is broadly known throughout many physical disciplines.

Tantra is an esoteric adjustment or conformity to this.

That's interesting, that they're related. Tantra is a thread.

Also true. Dangers of Fire. That is why if necessary in sadhana practice, you add in a "cooling vent" which I thought might be portrayed by Sitabani transferring from Fire to Air.

There are probably other ways of doing it, if you skim the miscellaneous Homa rites for something that sounds related.

I'm not sure what you mean by a vent here, the 'escape' that I have is that I can switch to one of the other parallel worlds -- it only happens while I'm simultaneously dreaming, waking, transitioning, and shaking all at once. The fear is that I wouldn't do that automatically.

Camunda is why I did not dismiss the Asta Matrikas and their particular pitha set. Compared to the inhabitants of some of the major pithas in Buddhist tantra, the Camundas involved here are:

cāmuṇḍā caṇḍikā caṇḍī pracaṇḍasurasundarī |

caṇḍāṭṭahāsā caṇḍākṣī pracaṇḍacaṇḍanāśinī || 32 ||


What is that? You have two kinds of Pracandas. One is a Surasundari (Varuni) which is related to the Candi(ka) names. The other is a Canda Nasini, Destroyer of Anger. Attahasa is loud laughter or "horse laugh" which is related to Candaksi "Fierce Eyes".

So is this related to Candi, then? At Durgapuja they read the Chandipath.

Chinnamasta is more terrible than the terrible KAli, hence the name Prachanda Chandika. KAli works with the aid of KAla (Time). Chinnamasta destroys instantaneously. KAli is the prâna shakti (vital force) while Chinnamasta is vidyut shakti (electric force). She has Her seat between the eyebrows (ajna chakra) and commands the power of will and vision.

Okay. And Kali would be seated elsewhere? The two others are Varini and Dakini, they are the other channels.

That association of Vajra-vairochani with lightning is because it was previously the name of Indra's vajra (which presumably is shining).

[Old Student]

I get the point that the way that there are six chakras from the five-fold form of "inner couple" plus the four dakinis is due to the axis, the Heruka is in the head and Varahi is at the root.

This I did not know. So in terms of the channels from the previous post with Chinnamasta and Varini and Dakini, do these then intersect these chakras, and is Kali worked in somehow if she is prana?

Kamarupa is the original Theosophical term for "astral body" in the sense of "not connected to physical form".

Most of the time it is an indistinct blob of various "stuff". It becomes a body or vehicle under two conditions: conscious projection by an adept (which is Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body), or death. In those cases it will default to resembling the person who made it, although it can be changed.

It is fairly straightforward, "one's form in the Kama Loka".

Just to check, this is the same astral body people try to project here in the West? And does it fit in with the hierarchy that jtcribbs was talking about? (My reply to him ended up as an edit of a reply to you, there doesn't seem to be a way to not do that once the editor has decided to make something an edit).

[shaberon]

This is back to the Pitha Song which is really an Eight Mothers Circle.

One thing we have noticed is that the tantric Gauris include the Tri-shakti embedded in a ring of eight dakinis. They are not in apparent order, and so for instance you get Ghasmari = Mahesvari. So if we pan this out for similarities, the song at least follows the convention of naming the retinue first, then has a few verses for Ganapati, and then a few verses for each member, and then Bhairava. And so the very beginning tells us at least something about who is involved:


brahmāṇī tattvarūpā vividhaghanaravā ghoracaṇḍī ca raudrī

kaumārī kīrtikāmā pibati madhumadaṃ vaiṣṇavī gāyamānā |

vārāhī vādayantī paṭutarapaṭahān nṛtyamānā tathaindrī

cāmuṇḍā cāpi lakṣmīrharagaṇasahitā mātaro vaḥ punantu || 1 ||


Looks simple but with an odd snag.


Tattva is both the general yoga term for elements of reality, and is the beginning of Kriya Tantra instructions if one was to pursue Buddhist Deity Yoga, it starts with Atma Tattva and Devata Tattva. Usually there are held to be around thirty-six tattvas, similar to the large description in Laghutantratika.

In her verse text, Brahmani is also called Brahmasavitri which is a rare title for her in consort mode, enshrined in temples, and is an ongoing Darshan and Vrata. Arthur Avalon says it is known as Vedic but is Tantric.

After "form or body of reality", then she is:

Vividha (many kinds of) Ghanarava (Thunder) Ghoracandi ca = and Raudri

I think all of the epithets are on Brahmani, and then Raudri = Mahesvari; Kaumari gets most of the second line, and Vaisnavi one term; then Varahi gets all the epithets and Indri is simply listed; and then Camunda is only named and Lakshmi is described as completing the circle. It is a kind of asymmetrical portrayal, but, you can do that; may be done to attempt a certain verse rhythm.

Raudri would standardly be a synonym for Mahesvari. Since this is the second goddess, there is not much question about her being at the end of the first line, if each line has two devis.

Ghoracandi is split from other Candis which are under Camunda. Ghoracandi should refer to Camunda's red form, and the others are smoky or dark. In her text, Brahmani is associated with Hamsa, Saumya, and Pita = Yellow. Nothing seems horrifying = ghora or any titles of Candi. Elsewhere, Varahi and Bhairava are ghoras, and Kaumari is a Maharaudri, Camunda is a Bhisani Raudri. So Brahmani is pretty clean of violent imagery that does apply to others.

Thunder and Ghoracandi are perhaps the "real form" of Brahmani. It is not clear, but it looks to me like Ghoracandi is fastened to Brahmani, which seems implausible, except that is the way the line seems to actually read, then separates Raudri = Mahesvari. It could be that the Thunder is detached from Brahmani and on its own, makes the two, Ghoracandi and Raudri, except there is no room for, or any further evidence of, any individual Ghoracandi.

Elsewhere, Ghoracandi is a single-use deity, apparently having one Hindu legend and one Buddhist sadhana appearance. However, it is important, since we are following a layering of tantric Gauris, into Vajraraudris as in Samputa, into the group that is with Seven Syllable deity, because their Purity is the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment. Seven Syllable retinue is:

Accordingly, [...] on each of the six spokes of the wheel of the sun on which the god stands there are six deities, namely, (commencing from the right) Herukī, Vajravārāhī, Ghoracaṇḍī, Vajrabhāskarī, Vajraraudrī and Vajraḍākinī. They have respectively blue, yellow, red, green, smoky and white colour. All of them have dishevelled hair, fierce appearance, three eyes and the quarters as garments. They carry the resounding ḍamaru and the ghaṇṭā in the first pair of hands, and the human skin in the other pair. They [viz., Ghoracaṇḍī] stand on the orb of the sun placed on a corpse. Their head-dresses are decorated with rows of skulls, and they stand in the ālīḍha attitude.

From the original in Himalayan Passages, we find Vajrabhairavi instead of Vajravarahi, and that ca is more like a "disjunct and", such as "this and that different one", and less like "this is that and that". So again, Ghoracandi ca Raudri strongly looks to be naming them distinctly, not together.

Samputa has the odd inclusion of Sound Object and Earth Element along with its named dakinis from the quick mandala description:

Vajraraudri, Vajrabimba, Ragavajra, Vajrasaumya, Vajrayakshi, Vajradakini.

There is a clear continuity of Vajraraudri and Vajradakini from here into the Seven Jewels; but on this, I was tricked, I thought Samputa might be the way to Pacify Vajraraudris, but it turns out these are really Vajrasaumyas or have pleasant appearance, so, that must have already been done. That is why Samputa is advanced and represents work already done with Gauris.



Rāgavajra (रागवज्र)or Mahāmāyā is the name of a deity associated with the Āyatana (sense) named Mukha, according to the 9th century Vajraḍākatantra chapter 1.16-22. As a male name, it is Atisha's Ganapati. The dakini is red and arguably in Lotus Family and most similar to Ghoracandi.

There was a Ghora Angiras from Chandogya Upanishad wherein he teaches Krishna human life as a sacrifice, which is his main claim to fame. This, perhaps, is the basis of Ghora Yoga; Ghora Vrtti is an outburst of Rajas, something to be controlled.

There is a Ghoradakini with Jnanadakini (cf. simple mandala; with mantras in Japanese version). Same in Samputa, or Wayman's Buddhist Tantras.

Although ghora and raudri are common adjectives, as names, Samputa interchanges Raudri with Vajraraudri:

“White Raudrī in the east,
Yellow Vajrabimbā in the south,
Red Rāgavajrā in the west,
And green Vajrasaumyā in the north. {3.4.48}
3.­153
“In the northeast there is white and yellow Vajrayakṣī;
In the southeast, yellow and red Vajraḍākinī;
In the southwest, red and blue Śabdavajrā;
And in the northwest, green and white Pṛthivīvajrā. {3.4.49}

Purve Raudri suklavarna in the original. Her form is particularly white as she holds a cup of semen. I am mixed up, it must be some other retinue that is cast like the Eight Mothers. Obviously this Raudri is equivalent to Vajraraudri from the similar stanza in Samputa.


The rest of the Eight Mothers' intro tells us:

Kaumari Kirti (famous as) Kama pibati = pivati, drinking, Madhu Mada, intoxication

Vaisnavi is Gayamana = singing

Varahi is vadayanti, probably playing a musical instrument, patutara (very clever)

Paṭaha (पटह) refers to a “musical instruments” (a sort of drum) that existed in ancient Kashmir (Kaśmīra) as mentioned in the Nīlamatapurāṇa.—The Nīlamata says that the land of Kaśmīra was thronged with ever-sportive and joyful people enjoying continuous festivities. Living amidst scenes of sylvan beauty they played, danced and sang to express their joys, to mitigate their pains, to please their gods and to appease their demons.

Accordingly as Brahmā narrated to Nārada:—“[...] On the top of the mountain near the city of Himālaya, Śiva sported about for a long time in the company of Satī. [...] The celestial damsels played on their lutes, tabours and drums (paṭaha) and danced with enthusiasm”.

Battle drums were sounded both big and small [viz., paṭaha].

1) A kettle-drum, a war-drum

Nrtyamana "danced"

Capi is combining Api-ca "but, further".


In her verse, Mahesvari is Maha Humkara Nadini, which is the same as a standard Suryagupta Tara, specifically meaning arising from or emitting the sound of Hum instead of just its appearance as a letter. She is Maha Vrsa (bull or strength) sama rudha, probably "fully grown".

She has a gold face, Nibha (shining likewise) Deha (body) and:

Kapala Sasi Sekhara -- Skull Moon Crest

She has three eyes, trisuli--trident, rosary, and initiation pitcher.

She has white clothes and flowers.

Most of these devis are in a forest or grove, hers is Tala, palm or palmyra tree, around Varanasi, the territory of Annapurna, who would correspond in Saiva Agama. Mahesvari (Ghasmari) is distinct from Candi (Cauri) in Samputa, as she is here.


There is one brief ode of "sarvabuddhanam" between the Mother's Circle and the first appearance of Bhairava. His description is "interrupted" by Bhadrakali before he gets more thorough and exalted descriptions. She deploys from:

sālaṅkāreṇa sarvāṅgaṃ narāsthipuṣpaśobhitam |

śīrṣamālādharā devī kāpālikoṭaraṃ śubham || 49 ||



cūḍāmaṇiṃ mahātejaṃ kapālaṃ candrabhūṣitam |

mahāpretāsanaṃ nityaṃ nīyamānā sadā priyā || 50 ||



sahasrasūryasaṃkāśā chatrabindusamanvitā |

catuṣpīṭhasthitā nityam aṣṭakṣetranivāsinī || 51 ||



aṣṭamūrtisthitā devī aṣṭakayoginīpriyā |

bhadrapīṭhe sthitā nityaṃ bhadrakālīsamāvṛtā || 52 ||


"Cuda" is not necessarily "Cunda", it refers to having a top-knot. But here it says there are Four Pithas related to eight regional inhabitants.


Encyclopedia of Tantra vol. iv seems to copy Alex Wayman and then add a section on Agni Janana which is not necessarily Buddhist but Bengali and mentions the following:

Fire in the Kunda is followed by Nyasa for seven tongues or flames and their deities, the jatis, and eightfold Agni forms. He evidently is two armed on a lotus embracing his sakti. Then the Mothers are added on eight petals; there are six flames of Agni at the corners and one at the center. So it is telling you to attach an equivalent of this Pitha Song and you have Agni in a seven-fold scheme which is the same as only about three of all Buddhist mandalas, Seven Syllable deity, Mahakala, or Armor Deities.

There are ghee oblations involving Soma, and then the use of Ganapati plus Agni mantras makes the "mouth of Agni". Then the performer does "merger of the mouth" (vaktraikikarana) and merger of the arteries (nadisandhana, the merger of the arteries of fire, deity, and self). There is a "birth of Agni" and manifestation via Nirmanachakra.

That is almost the same as Mystic Kiss Tantra and Inverted Stupa--Nadi Dakini Jala. To purify the skandhas and ayatanas is Father tantra; to purify the Nadis is Mother tantra.

And so Agni in his own terms is very similar to Yogini tantra, which reciprocally uses him as the main element to drive Nirajan or rivers of nectar in the nadis.

He also uses something that Note 6 p. 214 calls the following the "Jatis", same six categories as in Kamika Agama which contains Shiva's method of Homa:

Having known well the process of employing the kila-technique, the sadhaka should perform all the rituals. ‘Namah’, ‘svaha’, ‘vashat’, ‘hum’, ‘vaushat’ and ‘phat’ – these are the six categories which are to be identified with the hrudaya mantra, siro mantra, sikha mantra, kavaca mantra, netra mantra and astra mantra respectively. Having done the nayasa of phonemes in this way, the sadhaka should do the nyasa of nine tattvas.

4.174-177

The nine letters of the mantra to be pronounced through madhyama-sound should be identified with dvadasanta, brahma-randhra, midpoint of the eyebrows, uvula, neck, heart, navel, the region where the base of the genital organ meets and the base of the spinal (muladhara). The letters of Siva’s specific mantra added with the corresponding Sakti kalas should be identified with navel, heart and the forehead. The ‘vyoma vyapi’ mantra should be identified, from the top of the head to the big toe. Having perfectly assumed the state of being in the form of mantras (mantratvam), the sadhaka should design appropriate locations within his vidya-deha for the performance of puja, homa and Samadhi, in an orderly way. The systematic worship should be done in the location of the heart. Fire-ritual should be performed in the navel. In the forehead, he should meditate on Lord Siva, who is the dispenser of boons and whose look is directed towards all directions and all beings.


Kila refers to a way of making mantras, and, Buddhism does not discard these mantric Jatis, although they are defrayed somewhat into Four Activities and Armor.

We found that Smoke is equivalent to Prana in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, and, here:

The akasa tattva (space) has the symbolic form of circle. There is no distinct mark for it. It is with the color of smoke. Its presiding Deity is Sadasiva. Its seed letter is ‘ham’. It is related to isana mantra and astra mantra. It is associated with santyatita kala. It is raised above through one elevation effected by the recital of ‘haum’ one time.

also:

Hrudaya is with the color of moon; Siras is in the color of gorocana (a bright yellow pigment); Sikha is with the brightness comparable to the effulgence of the lightning; Kavaca is in the color of smoke, from the head to the feet; Astra is with the tawny color; Netra is with a brightness of the luminous shaft and the Guru should worship this as present at the center of the lotus.


There with Kavaca "Armor" you see a correspondence to Buddhist Smoky Candi--Limbs and Surfaces. This Nyasa, itself, is fairly close to Buddhist Armor. It is also crossed with nine tattvas which is quite close to Six Families mixed with Nine Winds as in Vajra Rosary.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I'm not sure what you mean by a vent here, the 'escape' that I have is that I can switch to one of the other parallel worlds -- it only happens while I'm simultaneously dreaming, waking, transitioning, and shaking all at once. The fear is that I wouldn't do that automatically.

I was going from the basis that Bliss is derived from Fire, and, in that sense could be dangerous.

If you mean Bliss more in a Noumenal context and the processes it works with, that may be beyond the scope of any idea I have.

So is this related to Candi, then? At Durgapuja they read the Chandipath.

Heavily.

In one interpretation, Ca = cale = motion and munda is "head", thereby meaning motion inside the head.

She mainly is the wrathful aspect of Amoghasiddhi's Tara.

But she is tiered and branched, which is why I am digging in the sources of different names.

Okay. And Kali would be seated elsewhere? The two others are Varini and Dakini, they are the other channels.

No, Kali does not pertain to the Buddhist Pitha system, and she has very little showing at all, except in Vajrapanjara Tantra. Otherwise she functions as a Houri or Time goddess and perhaps a retinue member somewhere.

That explanation was from the Mahavidya system, which has similarities to Buddhist practice, but Kali is not really among them. It would foil their logic if we mentioned Pranashakti = consort of Ganapati = Matangi, which I got from a Hindu Homa.

Hindus have different names for the attendants which with us are Vairocani and Varnani.

That association of Vajra-vairochani with lightning is because it was previously the name of Indra's vajra (which presumably is shining).

Yes. It is close but so far I am sticking with the ancient explanation of her as the heat of Tapas.

That, in itself, may not grant you much electrical effect for some time.

Vairocani however continues through the tantras as the brighter solar nerve. That is the intent of forming the subtle body according to the stack of Chakrasamvara mantras.

The thirteen syllable mantra of Vajravairocani gives rise to Varnani, who is Pranava Vajradakini, arising from the first syllable, Om.

She is a bit more subtle and must have to do with sound produced in the illumined state.

The two nerves may have other names, but, operationally, they are these entities. The two nerves do not even exist, in our terms, until energetically activated, which requires the (first) Vajravairocani as in Samvarodaya in the navel. Even if this were learned as Candali or some other way, the "big" Vairocani will still be a main nerve.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
I get the point that the way that there are six chakras from the five-fold form of "inner couple" plus the four dakinis is due to the axis, the Heruka is in the head and Varahi is at the root.

This I did not know. So in terms of the channels from the previous post with Chinnamasta and Varini and Dakini, do these then intersect these chakras, and is Kali worked in somehow if she is prana?

Yes, our system is mainly the Three Channels and Four, Five, or Six Chakras.

It adds more chakras by doing something to the effect of taking the center point of a mandala and extending it to a line or vertical axis, represented in the body by new deities involved with the powers of wrath and union.

I am fairly certain the operations with prana are not quite pinned on a specific deity, but, are the Bala, Mahabala, or Raudra Krama as trained on various deities. That is why "Bali Offering" represents using the power of it. It is close or in tandem with Cemetery Yoga, and, Kali is certainly a Smasana Vasini, but, our system seems to have almost erased her like it did the Klim syllable. It will detach a big name like Kali and yet hold onto things that have only one story like Ghoracandi and Carcika.

Just to check, this is the same astral body people try to project here in the West? And does it fit in with the hierarchy that jtcribbs was talking about?

More or less.

It concerns three worlds, Bhuvar, Svar, and Mahar or Kama, which I personally could lump together as "the astral plane", although they are distinguishable.

In original Theosophy, the name for astral double is Linga Sarira (Bhuvar), the plane above that houses the body of Prana (Svar), and then there is the plane of the Kama rupa or Mayavi Rupa. There is no "etheric body" as half of the physical plane which was a modification from CWL and debased the nature of the rest of the planes. It has no corresponding ancient Puranic term.

The original system said that Dr. Crookes was correct in discovering the fourth state of physical matter, Plasma, which must have been well-known to adepts who can see the sun's corona at will.

They said if he "tried again", he might have discovered the fifth state, and then, if he had discovered the sixth state, they would have taken him and bound him to secrecy.

The seventh state was barely alluded as being activated by "the highest intellection" and must have to do with the inseparability of consciousness and matter.

Obviously it does not talk about an etheric sub-plane except to the extent of kidnapping anyone who really knew about it, but, arguably, what it calls entire worlds or planes, has been "shifted" by him so as to appear part of the physical plane. This drop allowed him to postulate planes higher than Atma. So the original system "is" the Puranas, and his is his own declaration.

So exactly what people may mean by astral and etheric bodies is, probably, not particularly versed in the system we are using; but if we say there is one aspect of it that is a "physical model" and another aspect that is "mentally responsive", then, a projection would have to go in one or the other kind.

What the Mahatmas considered an Adept was someone who had complete use of Mayavi Rupa, and since this included Europeans who had no clue about Buddhism, they nevertheless achieved this same siddhi. So it must be the same as astral body or other names.

[Old Student]

"Cuda" is not necessarily "Cunda", it refers to having a top-knot. But here it says there are Four Pithas related to eight regional inhabitants.

My dictionary says cUDAmaNi is the jewel worn at that location.

There are ghee oblations involving Soma, and then the use of Ganapati plus Agni mantras makes the "mouth of Agni". Then the performer does "merger of the mouth" (vaktraikikarana) and merger of the arteries (nadisandhana, the merger of the arteries of fire, deity, and self). There is a "birth of Agni" and manifestation via Nirmanachakra.

Is this possibly a description of a Tummo generation? It sounds very similar.

Having perfectly assumed the state of being in the form of mantras (mantratvam), the sadhaka should design appropriate locations within his vidya-deha for the performance of puja, homa and Samadhi, in an orderly way.

Being in the form of mantras means saying each of the mantras and attributing them as you are saying them to the body parts in the paragraph?

Hrudaya is with the color of moon; Siras is in the color of gorocana (a bright yellow pigment); Sikha is with the brightness comparable to the effulgence of the lightning; Kavaca is in the color of smoke, from the head to the feet; Astra is with the tawny color; Netra is with a brightness of the luminous shaft and the Guru should worship this as present at the center of the lotus.

Hrudaya is from the same root as Hrdaya? Meaning heart? Netra is a bright luminous shaft at the center of a lotus, but netra also means 'eye'?

[Old Student]

I was going from the basis that Bliss is derived from Fire, and, in that sense could be dangerous.

If you mean Bliss more in a Noumenal context and the processes it works with, that may be beyond the scope of any idea I have.

I don't know what this means. What I meant is that the thing with the bliss that I described is entered in a way that has several components, but I could, in theory just leave again into any of them, since I am, for lack of better descriptors, both awake and asleep and dreaming and shaking all at the same time. So I could, in theory, just leave into a dream or into shaking, or fall asleep, or just physically stand up or something. The worry is that I won't. I understood what you said as being some kind of a specific 'vent' or route or something to one of those that would be there. Maybe I'm not making sense.

That explanation was from the Mahavidya system, which has similarities to Buddhist practice, but Kali is not really among them.

Do the 10 Mahavidyas correspond to body places? Chinnamasta appears to.

The two nerves may have other names, but, operationally, they are these entities. The two nerves do not even exist, in our terms, until energetically activated, which requires the (first) Vajravairocani as in Samvarodaya in the navel. Even if this were learned as Candali or some other way, the "big" Vairocani will still be a main nerve.

They are called nerves for a reason, though?

[Old Student]

I am fairly certain the operations with prana are not quite pinned on a specific deity, but, are the Bala, Mahabala, or Raudra Krama as trained on various deities. That is why "Bali Offering" represents using the power of it. It is close or in tandem with Cemetery Yoga, and, Kali is certainly a Smasana Vasini, but, our system seems to have almost erased her like it did the Klim syllable. It will detach a big name like Kali and yet hold onto things that have only one story like Ghoracandi and Carcika.

The Klim syllable was in that thangka you posted the last time with Chinnamasta (directly above on this page).

Obviously it does not talk about an etheric sub-plane except to the extent of kidnapping anyone who really knew about it, but, arguably, what it calls entire worlds or planes, has been "shifted" by him so as to appear part of the physical plane. This drop allowed him to postulate planes higher than Atma. So the original system "is" the Puranas, and his is his own declaration.

So exactly what people may mean by astral and etheric bodies is, probably, not particularly versed in the system we are using; but if we say there is one aspect of it that is a "physical model" and another aspect that is "mentally responsive", then, a projection would have to go in one or the other kind.

Thanks for this explanation. I have trouble understanding some of these systems, because I associate the astral plane with astral projection, which was for me just a going somewhere out of my body and looking back at it, the astral body I was in at that point, if that's what it was, was pretty much a copy of me. The clear body in my shaking is nothing like that. He said he had experienced that, but didn't elaborate on what it looked like. So I wasn't sure.