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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I'm not sure either. I do know there was a similar belief about hitting the ground in falling dreams. I hit the ground in one, and then wondered where the story had come from and in investigating it, found out tons of people had, just like me, hit the ground and nothing had happened to them.

    Same here.

    It is one of the things that comes to mind in trying to relate to what you describe as corrections or adjustments, because it was just like seeing nothing happens--which for me it happened because I consciously released any Aversion or Fear.

    That same attitude should pop a significant portion of many apparent barriers.


    Quote Oops. I kicked the crows out. They were trashing the place and frightening the smaller birds. I (as the bird familiar of that shaman) told them to leave. They hang out across the street or next door. I didn't actually know that I had succeeded until they all stayed away, that's the first I found out they can somehow understand me.
    That is the same Siddhi as a Wrathful Bird Deity.

    If you can do that then you can use All-Purpose Khandaroha to deflect any Enemies.

    In reality we had better be careful in trying to identify what the Enemy is.

    In this case where such an enemy is invasiveness, and you have just effected a fence rather than harming them, that is like the intended role of Kila. But in the esoteric sense, you had better get a good Fence, the Cemeteries are outside it, and then if something comes crawling through, you Kila it.


    Quote Sometimes the poses are 'extremes' they are the kind of limiting position of a particular kind of shaking and I stay in them for sometimes minutes (this kind usually have a lot of muscles at their maximum tension).
    How close is this to isotonic exercise?


    Quote Some of this sounds like blazing and dripping. Mamaki is water related. Is Mahamaya, who in this passage seems like fire -- and therefore almost an opposite -- a complement?

    It is interesting that earlier it is Nairatmya and later it is Varahi. I get the feeling that Varahi gradually accumulates things earlier ascribed to a larger set of deities.

    Mamaki is Vastness of Vision who changes Elements and Families and the Arch Guhyesvari is multiple Families.

    Perhaps I am jumping to conclusions since Mam can be three entities:

    Manjushri

    Mamaki

    Marici

    If there is reason to doubt she may be Manjushri, it could be possible it means Marici.

    However the translation of a passage says:

    She is manifested from a rope developed from the letter Maṃ (which is dark blue and whose rays are reddish) surrounded by the vowels and consonants on a moon disk, which was produced from the letter A on the origin of existences (dharmodaya, namely, the bhaga) placed at the center of a lotus of eight petals in a divine castle
    that was developed from the letter Bhrūṃ on the summit of Mt. Sumeru. Mahāmāyā is dark-blue,
    emits dark-blue fires, is of one face with three eyes and of four arms, makes her yellow hair stand on
    end, is adorned with all good ornaments, wears a tiger skin on her waist, holds a rope, a hook, a bow
    and an arrow, and stands in the shooting posture (g’yon brkyang gis bzhugs pa, *pratyālīḍhapada). He
    visualizes eight goddesses standing in the same shooting posture on the eight petals of the lotus in a
    divine castle. Then he keeps meditating them with the mantra "oṃ aṃ maṃ hūṃ."

    Dark blue sounds less like Marici and Chapter Eleven describes itself as:

    paramasiddhividyā mahāmāyā nāma mahāguhyeśvarī /


    It tells you to meditate Vajrasattva, and then if we recall what his Vajri Bhava means, he relies on that to be Vajradaka, who is fused with dakinis. To do so, first Mahamaya comes, and she at first attracts Brahma and others, and then attracts White Four Face Vajradaka. And so her form from the original assures us the translator should not have said Rope but Noose:


    ity āha bhagavān vajrī ◊ vajraḍākaḥ paraṃ sukham //17//
    bhāvayed bhagamadhye tu ◊ sampūrṇacandramaṇḍalam /
    tasya madhyagataṃ bījaṃ ◊ nīlāruṇasamaprabham //18//
    nīlajvālākulā divyā ◊ nīlapaṅkajasaṃnibhā /
    caturbhujā ekavaktrā ◊ trinetrā piṅgalordhvakeśajāe
    //19//
    sarvālaṃkārabhūṣitā ◊ vyāghracarmāvṛtā kaṭiḥ /
    pāśāṅkuśadharā divyā ◊ dhanurbāṇākarṣaṇā parāe
    //20//
    indranīlasamāyuktam ◊ ādi-akṣarabhāvanā /
    yasya vidyāṃ prayuñjīta ◊ kṣipram ānayate kṣaṇāt //21//
    raktavarṇaṃ tato dhyātvā ◊ paścād dhyānaṃ vidadhītau /


    Guhyeshvari is all three of those "Flames", Nairatma, Vajravarahi, and Mahamaya, but yes those are also codes for using the power to see different things.

    Chapter Fifteen is Bhagavan Vajri Vajrasattva becoming Dakini Samayoga Paramasukha Vajradaka, and summarizes itself as:

    iti kāyatrayodayamantratantrodayākālamṛtyuvañcano nāma paṭalaḥ pañcadaśamaḥ /


    As if the whole thing was a part of Mrtyuvacana, not that she or it were optional or incidental.

    It uses the "famous"

    Rahasye Parame Ramye

    to enact Mahamaya.

    That is about all it says, although I am already a bit blurry what was in the other available chapters.

    The Mahamaya Tantra is even further, except it is male Four Face Mahamaya who is a sex-changed Lakshmi who couples with the increased Vajravairocani, which is a second good reason to think of Vairocani as Source, because she is intended to increase into Buddhadakini and consort with Mahamaya.

    Now if we could compound her across the whole Vajradaka, it would appear she is first taught as Akasha Dhatvishvari, before becoming Inner Fire:

    Mahāmāyā (महामाया)or Padmaraśmī is the name of a deity associated with the Bhūta (element) named Ākāśa, according to the 9th century Vajraḍākatantra chapter 1.16-22.—Accordingly, this chapter proclaims the purity of the five components (skandha), five elements (bhūta) and five senses (āyatana) as divine beings [viz., Mahāmāyā].


    That is the same pattern, from a conceptual teaching of Voidness, to a personal experience of Akash, which becomes Void Gnosis, which merges with Inner Fire.

    She appears to be Mahesvari in a retinue for Mahakala:


    To the East is Mahāmāyā (consort of Maheśvara), who stands in the ālīḍha attitude and rides a lion. She has four arms, of which the two left hands carry the kapāla and the ḍamaru, and the two right the kartri and the mudgara. She is blue in complexion, has dishevelled hair, three eyes and protruding teeth. All these deities are terrible in appearance, with protruding teeth and ornaments of serpents.

    In Sadhanamala, Mahamaya is Maha Sarasvati, Varahi 221 is Guhyesvari and Mahamaya Mahesvari, and Mahamaya is also Cemetery Varahi and Jvalamukhi.

    Maha Sarasvati is the one holding a flaming white lotus with her four special goddesses. It looks like a Medicine or Bhaisajya made from the sweet sound of Matta Kokila. Back to the birds.

    Although Autumn Moon is perhaps common and is her origin here, it (Saradindu) is part of a famous Sloka that makes her a type of Pitha goddess and an aspect of Parabrahm:

    Om Sri Gnana Saraswathi devathayai namaha,

    śaradiṃdu samākāre parabrahma svarūpiṇe
    vāsarā pīṭha nilaye sarasvatī namostute

    That is about Blue Sarasvati; Maha Sarasvati is White.

    The other ones have it as an epithet, whereas Sarasvati is the only one invoked mantricly by it, although as Mahamayange, suggesting she and her retinue are the "limbs" or portions of Maya. It is in conjunction with Hrih, perhaps suggesting this is Mahamaya compared to the Maya of Hrim.

    Overall Mahamaya is a broad reaching name discussed in probably all philosophies, one of the most succinct being:

    A vidyā taught to Pradyumna by Māyāvatī to vanquish Śambara; it was an astra and one which could dispel all māyā.
    Last edited by shaberon; 19th April 2021 at 07:41.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Only got to a little of this, it is very interesting.
    Quote parasparāpekṣakadharmo
    paraspara = mutual or reciprocal
    apeksaka = aspirants or candidates
    dharmo = to the dharma

    And then a beginning on (90), it seems to be that thing you had talked about about bringing the drop to the throat, etc.
    Quote (90)

    candradrute sati yad bodhicittaṁ bindurūpenādhogataṁ kaṇṭhe
    The moon-messenger Sati whenever the bodhicitta in the form of a bindu descends to the throat...

    Quote hṛdi nābhau guhyakamale ānandapara maviramasvabhāvena|
    the sky-goer guhyakamala (or secret lotus) extreme joy unending svabhAvena.

    For svabhAvena or svabhAvenat or svabhaveneti, I'm getting purification of the self of all desires or the completely pure nature of getting rid of all desires. It keeps showing up as an ending to all these sentences.

    Quote tato vajramaṇiṁ yāvat sahajānandasvabhāveneti|
    If I break sahajAnanda svabhAveneti, then this is:
    In this vajramani (I assume sex) as soon as sahajAnanda hold the true nature of purity from all desires
    If I don't then it's:
    In this vajramani as soon as the sahajAnanda of a true nature completely devoid of desires.

    Quote athavā vicitra vipākavimardavilakṣaṇasvabhāveneti
    Or (or "is it not so that") the wonderous or splendorous...
    "vipAkavimardavilakSanasvabhAveneti" I believe breaks as

    vipAka vimarda vilakSana svabhAveneti

    Withering (or fading) tumult perceiving one's true nature pure and rid of all desires.

    So I'm not sure if it is all one thing, if this is a thing done by two mutual or complementary candidates and that has bearing on the 'vajramani' part, or it's separate. But (90) seems to start out talking about that drop you had said drops on the back of the throat, and some bliss that has to be pure of desire, or is pure of desire.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    So I'm not sure if it is all one thing, if this is a thing done by two mutual or complementary candidates and that has bearing on the 'vajramani' part, or it's separate. But (90) seems to start out talking about that drop you had said drops on the back of the throat, and some bliss that has to be pure of desire, or is pure of desire.
    It looks to be after the conclusion of Pranayama and Dharana as Upasadhana.

    It takes a Bimba and moves to the stage of Sadhana--Smrti.

    The prior parts gave you the Inner Fire of Generation Stage and so that itself cease to be the focus:

    iha dhāraṇābalena nābhisthāṁ caṇḍalīṁ jvalitāṁ pa-
    śyati yogī sarvāvaraṇarahitāṁ pratisenopamāṁ mahāmudrām anantabud-
    dharaśmimeghān sphārayantīṁ prabhāmaṇḍalavirājitā<m sā>nusmṛti<ḥ>
    sādhanam ucyate| dhāraṇānte caṇḍalīyogaṁ bhāvayed iti
    niyamaḥ|

    it moves to the Arci or practice of Jnana made chiefly of Skandhas, Dhatus, and Ayatanas:

    tatas tasyā jñānārciṣā skandhadhātvāyatanādīni dagdhāny
    ekalolībhavanti| vāmadakṣiṇanāḍīgatāni vijñānādipṛthivyādīni maṇḍa-
    lasvabhāvāni lalāṭe candramaṇḍale praviṣṭāni|


    the beginning of the sentence you had takes your fire-infused wisdom yoga:

    tataś caṇḍālyā jñānārciṣā

    (90)

    candradrute sati yad bodhicittaṁ bindurūpenādhogataṁ kaṇṭhe
    hṛdi nābhau guhyakamale ānandapara maviramasvabhāvena| ta-
    to vajramaṇiṁ yāvat sahajānandasvabhāveneti|

    and in what we might call Kalachakra style has attached the root center or Guhya Kamala.

    This is of course also added in Kila and other practices, but, yes, sounds like it is talking about descent of the bindu from the throat.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote This is, of course, far less vivid than the uncountable possible Subtle Obscurations and therefor potential Buddha Fields there may be, which comes under the domain of Vajra Ignorance. One, Turquoise Leaves, is in this case enough for me to dedicate myself wholly into it.
    Interesting. The sutra introduces Indra's net, and several descriptions of it are that everything is represented in each atom or jewel in the net. So there is, of course, a debate over what the infinity of the net is. So whether or not it is uncountable is a mater of debate, I suppose (it does actually fit the definition of an uncountable infinity (like the irrationals) instead of a countable infinity (like the rational numbers).

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote ...which for me it happened because I consciously released any Aversion or Fear.

    That same attitude should pop a significant portion of many apparent barriers.
    I usually figure out that I released such things afterward, when it comes up that what I was afraid of turned out to be nothing.
    Quote That is the same Siddhi as a Wrathful Bird Deity.

    If you can do that then you can use All-Purpose Khandaroha to deflect any Enemies.
    I didn't know that. It is the only time I use that position of my tongue, and I have to change first.
    Quote In this case where such an enemy is invasiveness, and you have just effected a fence rather than harming them, that is like the intended role of Kila. But in the esoteric sense, you had better get a good Fence, the Cemeteries are outside it, and then if something comes crawling through, you Kila it.
    I am trying to imagine the one time I had an experience with a Kila, the one I told you about, and it being related to the Khyung and the cries. My guess is that it is related, and is something to puzzle on. The 'animal point' where the 'animalness' of these familiars comes out of (in the case of the bird, feathers pour out and cover me) is directly front to back (not approximately, directly, I noticed it at once) opposite from the place where the digging was and the huge ash me came out and held up the Kila that time. BTW I still haven't solved what was the thing in my chest, it was detoured around with all the dream yoga.

    Quote How close is this to isotonic exercise?
    That's an interesting question, I do sometimes muse about how this is building my muscles in my abdomen. So if isotonic exercise is defined as holding a muscle tense to build it up, then that would end up being a subset of this. These holds are frequently starting with one muscle group or part of a muscle group and gradually recruiting more muscular tension in a widening or deepening way until everything is tensed. The final tension might be similar to the tonic phase of a seizure or to catatonia, except that only very rarely is my diaphragm affected, and that is usually recruited in during a seizure.

    The amount of time is a difference, too, isotonics aren't generally held more than a few minutes and a tonal-clonal seizure that lasts over 5 minutes is life-threatening. These can sometimes go over a half-hour, and I cannot tell you what the mechanism is for that, the tensed state sort of sets in or becomes the new normal. And the final difference is these, like some kinds of meditation, can substitute for sleep. In other words, I feel energized and refreshed afterwards, and it doesn't bother me if half the night was taken up doing that, I feel that I've had a good night's sleep. That part is related to the fact that the state starts to produce bliss after a few minutes as well. So there is something slightly different going on.

    Quote Mahāmāyā is dark-blue, emits dark-blue fires, is of one face with three eyes and of four arms, makes her yellow hair stand on end, is adorned with all good ornaments, wears a tiger skin on her waist, holds a rope, a hook, a bow and an arrow, and stands in the shooting posture (g’yon brkyang gis bzhugs pa, *pratyālīḍhapada).
    I did a lot of digging into Mahamaya, because for a while she was identifying in my shaking. It's actually a she, but is represented as a he for purposes of depicting in consort form. The form above is nearly identical with Kurukulla, except blue, somewhat a he, and facing the other side.

    That document you gave, the Dharma Samgraha, put Marici with the Moon?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    There are a lot of roundabouts in this system, but they tend to return the same values, which is reinforcing.

    Vajrapani related Samadhi to Devata Anuraga and to the Yogacara phrase Grahyagraha.


    This second phrase happens to appear somewhat similarly in what I guess is a non-Buddhist syncretic view of Soul by Akalankadev:


    It is identified with knowledge, hence it is amikta (not free). The Soul is embodiment of knowledge (narmati) and indestructible (akshayam). (1) The Soul is grahyagraha, an independent object, which can only be conceived through knowledge and not through senses. It is permanent, having neither a beginning nor an end, but at the same time it is characterized by the triad of origination, destruction and permanence.

    He develops this into a nine-fold view of dualistic extremes, but, without diverting too much, let us see how it may resemble Buddhist Yogacara.

    In the Trimsika of Vasubandhu and its commentary by Sthiramati, this idealism is more clearly explained. It is said that both the soul (or the knower) and all that it knows as subjective ideas or as external objects existing outside of us are but transformations of pure intelligence (vijnanaparinama).

    Both Vasubandhu and Sthiramati repudiate the suggestion of those extreme idealists who deny also the reality (4) of pure intelligence on grounds of interdependence or relativity (samvrti). Vasubandhu holds that pure consciousness (vijnaptimatrata) is the ultimate reality. This ultimate consciousness is a permanent entity which by its inherent power (sakti) undergoes threefold transformation as the inherent indeterminate inner changes (vipaka) which again produce the two other kinds of transformation as the inner psychoses of mental operations (manana) and as the perception of the so-called external sensibles (visayavijnapti).

    So it is just about as if he has re-stated (1) from the random literature above. And here:

    4 Thus Lankavatara, one of the most important works on Buddhistic idealism, denies the real transformation of the pure intelligence or alayavijnana. See; Lankavatara, p. 46.

    The main difference in Yogacara sects is that some believe consciousness is always accompanied by an image and changes from moment to moment, whereas the Nirakara Vijnanavadin or Parasunya sect would say that certainly at the ultimate level it does not change, i. e. is Absolute:


    The ultimate principle of consciousness is regarded as absolutely permanent in itself and is consequently also of the nature of pure happiness (sukha), for what is not eternal is painful and this being eternal is happy.(1) When a saint's mind become fixed (pratisthita) in this pure consciousness (vijnaptimatra), the tendency of dual thought of the subjective and the objective (grahyagrahakanusaya) ceases and there dawns the pure indeterminate (nirvikalpa) and transcendent (lokottara) consciousness. It is a state in which the ultimate pure consciousness runs back from its transformations and rests in itself. It is divested of all afflictions (klesa) or touch of vicious tendencies and is therefore called anasrava. It is unthinkable and undemonstrable because it is on one hand pure self-consciousness (pratyatmavedya) and omniscience (sarvajnata) as it is divested of all limitations (avarana)

    1 Druvo nityatvat aksayataya; sukho nityatvad eva ya- danityam tad duhkham ayam ca nitya iti asmat sukhah. Sthiramati's commentary on Trimsika, p. 44.

    and on the other hand it is unique in itself.(1) This pure consciousness is called the container of the seed of all (sarvabija) and when its first indeterminate and indefinable transformations rouse the psychosis-transformations and also the transformations as sense-perceptions, these mutually act and react against one another and thus the different series rise again and again and mutually determine one another. These transformations are like waves and ripples on the ocean where each is as much as the product of others as well as the generator of others.

    1 Alayavijnana in this ultimate state of pure consciousness (vijnaptimatrata is called the cause (dhatu) of all virtues, and being the [Absolute (ultimate)] state in which all the dharmas, or characterised appearances, had lost all their limitations it is called the dharmakaya of the Buddha (mahamnueh bhumiparamitadibhavanaya klesajneyavarana- prahanat... sarvadharmavibhutualabhata's ca dharmakaya ity ucyate).

    This short article is extracted from a 346 page book of third year studies. So I suppose it is not considered "introductory" to most people.

    Parasunya is not the same as the school which only teaches Nirguna Brahman because it states the connection to form is filled with Karuna issuing from the Tathagata Garbha giving a "reason" for manifestation rather than entry to permanently-still nirvana.

    Sthiramati, Ratna Gotra Vibhaga or RGV, is the main crux which distills Yogacara into a seven-fold appendage of the Absolute which is the root of all these sadhanas, and the significance of Seven Syllable Deity having the Seven Jewels which are the branches of this.

    So there is a very close correspondence of Gotra, Ekayana, and Tathagatagarbha.

    As we found before, some of the main exponents of this view included Kamalasila, Haribhadra, and Ratnakarasanti who has a text linked there. They had to contend with things like the educated monks of the time did not generally want to accept anything new and weird like Svabhavikakaya.

    It is probably the case that Alaya is the main cause of confusion and schism between sects and schools, and I think the point we are making is that the seven principles are, so to speak, the organism of man, whereas the Alaya is not exactly part of him. One can simply align oneself so that there is repose with respect to it.

    So far, most of our tantras, even the Sadanga Yoga from Vajrapani and Dakini Jala Rahasya, speak of Five Dissolutions, the last being Void. The tantric flourish or finishing touch, I believe, is to slow this fifth sphere down to Three Voids, which really have to do with the Three Natures of Yogacara, and therefor is the experience of what is expressed in the Sutras and their commentaries.

    A similar teacher, Dharmamitra, also refers to three characteristics ( laksana ) taught in
    certain Sutras, namely the imaginarily constructed ( parikalpita ), the de¬
    pendent (paratantra) and the perfect {parinispanna ). These laksanas,
    otherwise known as natures (. svabhava ), as such are of course special fea¬
    tures of the school of the Yogacarins/Vijnanavadins, whose philosophi¬
    cal system is largely articulated round them.

    Again those are like the three tantric voids harnessed as:

    Parikalpita--No Ego--Nairatma,

    Paratantra--Suchness--Tathagatagarbha,

    Parinispanna--Ultimate Meaning--Paramartha.

    A bit like a pyramid, we can see Nairatma as the sixth principle of the tantras as the hem of this garment, Suchness or Thusness is profoundly described deep within the experience of Bliss Winds, and Paramartha is scarcely referred to at all, except as something like "if you do this right, you are getting the Paramartha".

    Sun, Moon, and Rahu, significantly conditioned by the Three Nerves.



    Abhayakaragupta not only compiled Sadhanamala, NSP, and Vajravali, explaining them as cogent to Agni Homa, he did so as a lynchpin of Gotra and all the foregoing.

    Unlike Dharmamitra, but like
    Haribhadra and the latter’s predecessor Kamalasila, Abhayakara also
    devotes special attention to the doctrine of the ekayana, the gnoseo-
    soteriological corollary of the theory of the prakrtistha-gotra and of the
    tathagatagarbha according to which all sentient beings as potential
    Buddhas are certain to achieve supreme and perfect Awakening ( anut-
    tarasamyaksambodhi). With regard to the ekayana he quotes the Sad-
    dharmapundarika and the Lankavatarasutra as well as Nagarjuna’s
    Niraupamyastava .

    The ekayana theory
    is in fact founded gnoseologically on the oneness of the knowledge of
    reality ( tattvajnana ), which has as its ‘object’ the single undifferentiated
    reality ( tattva ) or dharmadhatu.

    Concerning the tathagatagarbha Abhayakara refers to-verse ix. 37
    of the Mahayanasutralamkara quoted in the commentary on the Ratna-
    gotravibhaga (i. 148), a passage which deals with the universal pre¬
    sence of Thusness ( tathata ) in all incarnate beings, saying that by his
    use of the expression tathagata the author of the verso accepts the
    naturally luminous dharmadhatu which has as its characteristic the non¬
    substantiality of both the individual ( pudgalanairatmya ) and the factors
    of existence ( dharmanairatmya ).

    In this way Abhayakara links together in a remarkable manner the
    scriptural teachings on the prakrtistha-gotra, the ekayana, the dharma-
    dhatu, and the tathagatagarbha, as well as on nairatmya (: sunyata) and
    nihsvabhavata.

    As to the meaning of the
    term, gotra is so called because it realizes qualities ( gunottarana ), for
    it has the meaning of ‘germ’ (bija) and ‘capacity’.


    If Gotra realizes Guna, this is a major clue to it already expanding to Guna = Ratna Family = Use of Six Families.

    Furthermore, the teaching concerning the ekayana being thus
    quite certain, it has been established that apart from the dharmadhatu
    having the nature of the non-dual gnosis (advayajhana) of transcending
    discriminative knowledge ( prajna ) and means ( upaya), 10Z [189b] there
    exists no other vehicle of liberation.

    Abhayakaragupta explains that this procedure involves teaching im¬
    permanence to persons whose faculties are weak ( hlnendriya ) by eradi¬
    cating any imputation ( samaropa ) of reality, only self-awareness
    ( svasamvedana ) to persons with middling faculties by eradicating the
    imputation of [a real duality between] object and subject ( grahya -
    grahaka ), and sunyata or absence of discursive development (prapanca)
    to persons with sharp faculties by eradicating all imputation whatsoever.

    "Procedure" being "teaching by degrees".


    Moreover, the word yana denotes the path ( marga ) leading to the
    place of nirvana , i.e. the nature of knowledge of reality ( tattvajnana )
    (the means of progression), and nirvana (the goal of progression). . .
    [187a] For liberation (viz. nirvana ) is attained by knowledge of reality
    only, and not otherwise. Now this reality ( tattva ) (comprehended by
    transcending discriminating knowledge [prajna]) is only (eva) one;
    although theory ( drsti ) is differentiated (in virtue of this or that theory),
    the real ( vastu ) [i.e. the ‘object’ of tattva-jnana ] is not objectified as
    diverse realities, for this would involve over-extension (atiprasahga ).
    Therefore, (there being no multiplicity in reality,) gnosis (jnana) that
    has as its object reality having a single nature is also only one in (the
    mode of) nature. It being in fact gnosis consisting of the buddha' s and
    bodhisattva' s exact knowledge of reality, it has reality as its object; for
    it is the counteragent against confusion ( sammoha ) in all its forms.
    Partial (pradesika ) knowledge (of the Sravaka and the other) [on the
    contrary] will not comprehend reality; for this (namely understanding
    reality through partial knowledge) would involve over-extension, and
    thus (by comprehension through partial knowledge) everybody would
    see reality. Therefore, (the yana being the marga and this being estab¬
    lished as one,) that very gnosis which directly knows (saksatkr-) reality
    consisting in non-substantiality ( nairatmya) of pudgala and dharmas is
    the exact path allowing nirvana to be attained, and there is no other
    [such path]. In view of the preceding, the vehicle is only (eva) one.

    After having discussed the three natures (svabhava) and non-substan¬
    tiality (nairatmya) in connexion with the parinispannasvabhava (fol.
    187b-188a), Abhayakaragupta concludes his first chapter with the
    following observation (fol. 188b4-6):

    Thus (or: therefore) the nature of the Mahayana is established as
    being only the one vehicle (ekayana) and the absolute ( paramartha )
    absence of own being (nihsvabhavata) of all dharmas . This (the Great
    Vehicle) is the Bhagavati Prajnaparamita. This (Prajnaparamita) is to
    be known as the absolutely real (paramarthika ) bodhicitta , which con¬
    sists of the non-differentiation of the Empty (comprehension of sunyata)
    and compassion.


    For in the Ratnagotra-
    vibhaga(-Commentary), where it is said [i. 148] (quoting the Bodhi-
    chapter of the Mahayana sutra lamkara ): ‘Although in all without
    differentiation, Thusness ( tathata ) once it has reached purity (from
    adventitious impurities) (is) this tathagata- ness; all living beings there¬
    fore have this ( tathagata ) as embryonic essence’ etc., (teaching that all
    living beings possess the buddhagarbha ), Arya Maitreya too has, by
    using the expression tathagata (in this text), accepted the statement that
    the dharmadhatu, having the characteristic of non-substantiality ( nairat -
    mya ) of the individual ( pudgala ) and the dharmas, is naturally luminous
    ( prakrtiprabhasvara ).


    The Prajnaparamita itself, the Bhagavatl, is the essence of the Maha-
    yana, the ekayana precisely.


    AAA 1.28-30 (p. 47): tat punas trividham rupam / kalpitam rupam grahyagraha-
    karupena kalpitatvati vikalpitam rupam asadbhutaparikalpenajnanam eva tatha prati-
    bhasate iti vikalpitatvati dharmatarupam tattvato 'rupam eva sunyatarupena parini-
    spannatvati



    In Sadhanamala, Grahyagraha comes up with Khasarpana, Halahala, Manjushri, Canda Maharoshana, Vistara Tara, Vajra Tara, White Janguli, Prajnaparamita, and Hevajra Tantra Krama Svadisthana Kurukulla.

    Then it is also part of Cinnamasta.

    In simple terms, the idea is to quit projecting the Imaginary (Parikalpita) onto the Other-Dependent (Paratantra), but, because we do not know Reality, we are unable to cease imaginary projections.

    So when I found Mrtyuvacana was the Sadhanamala entity of Parasunya, and that also she is equal to Nectar Offering in Vajradaka Tantra, it is as if she is standing in for both the subtle Yogacara argument as well as its realization through Amrita, like the Alpha and Omega from dictionary definitions to Accomplishment.

    She does this in her form with the power of an Eight Spoked Wheel which attracts Brahma and others up to eight, Manmatha. Template-ish towards the Wheels of the Tri-kaya in the Pitha system.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I didn't know that. It is the only time I use that position of my tongue, and I have to change first.

    That might not be the only way you can do it.

    But yes it is the general principle behind All-Purpose (Sarvakarmika) Amritakundalin and Khandaroha.

    I can understand fairly well how your shaking goes, compared to the exercises, thank you.



    Quote Mahāmāyā is dark-blue, emits dark-blue fires, is of one face with three eyes and of four arms, makes her yellow hair stand on end, is adorned with all good ornaments, wears a tiger skin on her waist, holds a rope, a hook, a bow and an arrow, and stands in the shooting posture (g’yon brkyang gis bzhugs pa, *pratyālīḍhapada).

    I did a lot of digging into Mahamaya, because for a while she was identifying in my shaking. It's actually a she, but is represented as a he for purposes of depicting in consort form. The form above is nearly identical with Kurukulla, except blue, somewhat a he, and facing the other side.
    Male Mahamaya is among the oldest and most important tantras.

    Aside from the Vajravali lineage of Abhayakaragupta and the Mitra Yogin lineage there are several lineages from India that were passed through Marpa Lotsawa.

    Lineage 1: Vajradhara, Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa Chokyi Lodro, Ngog Choku Dorje, Shedang Dorje, etc.

    Lineage 2: Vajradhara, Kukkuripa, Padmavajra, Tilopa, Naropa, etc.

    Lineage 3: Vajradhara, Vajrapani, Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Samantabhadra, Sumati, Gewai Gocha, Namgyal Wangpo, Marpa Chokyi Lodro, etc.


    As a "she", she is mostly Hindu, except for when she is with Vajradaka. Himalayan Art has no awareness of this combination. We might be able to track it down in IWS. It might also be buried in the mess of calling Samputa and Vajradaka the same thing as Chakrasamvara.

    She starts as Akash with Patani, etc., in Chapter 1 and 42.

    Vajradaka Mulamantra says something as to why I tend to see Janguli with a Seven Serpent Hood as the poison processing precursor to the Jewels of Enlightenment with Vajradaka in this phrase:

    sapta-pātāla-gata-bhujaṅga-sarpaṃ


    Yes, it does paint her almost exactly as Blue Kurukulla. Male Mahamaya has Bow and Arrow, but not Hook and Noose.

    There is a similar Four Arm Nairatma, but, she is not an Archer, her main item is Vajra as in this example which just came in from China:








    Varahi 221-223 is Mahamaya and Jvalamukhi, which is mainly a Dharani, and does not refer to any particular form, other than it says Arya Vajravarahi, which nothing else does. That is the only way I can find a solo female Mahamaya.

    The Kurukulla-alike Mahamaya that is with Vajradaka rather has Noose as her main item. Hers are identical with Red Avalokitesvara 37:

    pāśāṅkuśadhanurbāṇadharaṃ

    compared to:

    pāśāṅkuśadharā divyā ◊ dhanurbāṇākarṣaṇā parāe

    She looks a bit Vasikaran dyed Blue.

    She is not yet called Fat or a Dwarf.

    Like the array of weapons or items, "tantric self-hood" increases, such as going from matted hair to this electric Big Hair. It could be argued she is not as wild and grisly as she can get.

    I am not sure if she is intended to be Jvalamukhi or Kurukulla. So far we know her mainly by context. The attribution of Guhyesvari would suggest she combines Jvalamukhi and Nairatma. I would guess that if you can identify the presence of Nairatma, that, a little further along, it should reveal a portion of the feet of this Mahamaya.

    I would say the restricted use of what is otherwise a popular name magnifies the relevance of this tantra, Vajradaka is fused with all dakinis, Vajradaka is in Union with Mahamaya.


    The male Mahamaya and Buddhakapala tantras are supposed to be the most potent ones, most advanced. There it seems like maybe the hardest part was given first and then Chakrasamvara and Hevajra tantras opened like gates to it. The Buddhadakini that is with Mahamaya is Vajravairocani who has not only increased in wrath and to four arms, but she displays the skill of mounting him sexually with no feet on the ground. This to me sounds like a mix of Akasha or Khecari or Flight with Bliss at a Jnanamudra level.

    Vajradaka with Mahamaya is the most indrawing and explanatory. And so if we go to Dharma Samgraha in the 40s--which is talking about Thirty-seven Point Enlightenment--there are still other ways of doing it, but, there is not any way around Sapta Bodhyanga, which is Vajradaka's provenance. This, itself, is like taking a Six Yogas' Samadhi training which we may have done on some external goddess and forcing the male or Vajrasattva element into the picture so that Union ensues and by his addition you now have Seven with a new Crown, Upeksa, meaning never lose it, a much different thing than attaining and stabilizing it in the first place.





    Quote That document you gave, the Dharma Samgraha, put Marici with the Moon?

    Even weirder, it did so by over-writing Mayuri in the Pancha Raksa.

    In about the vaguest and most indirect sense as a lower-case word, marici could be:

    2) ray of light (of the sun or moon), [Ṛg-veda] etc.


    I had noticed that before and kind of filed it under "no idea how to work with this".

    As their normal solar selves, one might say, yes, Marici and Mayuri are similar, and I think Mayuri is another Mam.

    The very brief Mahamaya Jvalamukhi 222 manages to wield a Mayura Picchaka twice.

    I have no clue about the double confusion in that Pancha Raksa which should have been among the easiest things to have known anyway.

    The work is attributed to Nagarjuna but was actually written by a Japanese student of Max Muller; the student had however consulted with I believe the same Pandit Amritananda who had assisted Brian Hodgson. It therefor should be Nepali in origin and may float up on DSBC perhaps with a correction. There are small mistakes in the majority of these old writings.

    When I originally looked for it I got Dharani Samgraha which was a total surprise.

    I have no other example of this "version", or any idea why it would be like this or what it could possibly mean if intentional.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    In looking at the Ratnakarasanti article that came up, it is along the lines of Claudio's paper, has scraped together a Romanized version of a few Sanskrit originals and is not translated.

    We noted approximately where he stands in the historical analysis, and, is the author of the major Vajra Tara 110, where again, even as a Yoga deity, she is considered capable of handling non-dual Highest Yoga, like Namasangiti Manjushri.

    The recent publication is his version of Heruka Yoga called Brahma Hara Nama Hevajra Sadhana.

    Offhand we would not expect it to be a "round one" Heruka Yoga because to call it Hevajra means he should be in Union with Nairatma.




    At the start it indicates Tandava Heruka is going to produce Sixteen Arm Hevajra via:

    astananasya racayami sadhanam

    It briefly summarizes an introductory puja and then smacks right into the tantric Gauris in the next sentence.

    These are written in the Hevajra format, not Dakini Jala's.


    gauri sasinam bibharti (or: bharamti), cauri ravim, vettali jalam, ghasmari palalam, pukkasi candanam, sabari madhu, candali damarukam vadayati, dombi kanthalagna purusayate

    There is Refuge Vow and Four Brahma Vihara and then a section on Grahyagraha and Paramartha.

    Paramarthika is described as Bodhicitta Lokottara Sunyatajnana Nisprapanca Nirvikalpa.

    You do Emptiness Mantra which evokes Prajnaparamita.

    A mandala builds around her forming Simabandha, there is a focus on five elements, and Maha Vajradhara arises. You add a Mahabhut mandala of the Four Devis which looks to be an upright Stupa. There is an essence of Vairocana and reference to the Cemeteries.

    A Moon made of the Mirror Wisdom unfolds other wisdoms and the Pithas. Vajrasattva becomes Heruka, Nairatma is mentioned, and they are going to Purify the Dharmadhatu.

    A few of the Gauris do...something inscrutable...and an Eight Arm form arises with Nairatma Sampanna who has two arms. There are some weird passages which might be Telugu or some other devious twist.

    There is a Nyasa, except Nairatma is situated in Manas.

    The Skandhas are listed as Afflictive Emotions, Matsarya Vajra, etc., and Ayatanas are iterated as the Gauris, as Gauri Sight, Cauri Sound, Vetali Scent, Ghasmari Taste, Bhucari Touch, Khecari Dharma.

    Then you have:

    Kaya--Bhucari

    Vak--Khecari

    Citta--Nairatma

    followed by Mamse Pukkasi, Rudhire Sabari, Sukre Candali, Majjamedayor Dombi, carmani sapta bodhyangani, asthisu satyacatustayam.

    Tri-kaya connects to Mahasukha.

    You attract Tathagatas of the Ten Directions and Eight Mothers.

    You make Five Nectar Offering.

    This is Adiyogo Nama Samadhi, svabhavikas ca kaya.

    In other words, it appears that the Tri-kaya infused into a new condition, Mahasukha, is the intent of the "fourth" or Svabhavikakaya. It has evidently done so by replacing by way of elaborating Dharma Kaya which is otherwise lacking.

    Then it moves to Dvesa and the Four Joys.

    The Gauris are generated from their initials in specific forms, except Lam = Candali. They have Two Arms and Big Hair.

    There is a Jnana Mandala and a Samaya Mandala, and the Gauris appear to attract the Dhyani Buddhas, and the Families of the Tri-Kaya produce Nirvana Heruka.

    At that point you have Devata Tattva manasikuryat. Kaya and other aspects are in vijnaptimatrata. You are in nisprapanca anasrava prajna uttara with Pukkasi and others as the elements. The fruit is Maha Vajradhara of Niruttara Bodhi Mandala Tattva.

    Then there is Blaze of Agni and the Ten Directions and Eight Mothers, pure ramye.

    It is the Rajagri, second samadhi, of Sambhogakaya.

    The Gauris cycle again according to Kaya, Vak, Citta, and Jnana, having to do with Nisprapanca Sukha, and then you do Sadanga Yoga. This seems to complete Sahajananda.

    Then there is Karmarajagri third samadhi of Nirmanakaya. It tells you to emit clusters of mantras you must have learned elsewhere.

    nidrakale sadangayoga sahajanandayoga

    seems to indicate you carry it through sleep.

    Four devis' samcoditas has to do with nidrata.

    At this point it looks like Brahma Hara Heruka.

    It ends with a Maya Janma Bhajam, and vajri jinah syam.


    So that is pretty advanced.

    That is why, for most of us, the progressive Chakrasamvara descriptions are the way to get the ingredients that are "taken for granted" here. Commensurately, Vajra Tara is probably the "conversion kit" from systems of Tara and Chakrasamvara into Hevajra. Her material has the training and development into the formula used here.

    She is also quite close to Self-arisen White Heruka. In other words, if I visualize White Tara "with effort", I am going to compose an image probably like Mrtyuvacana, and then, if I persist, this image will become easy and then just follow me around, at which point it is capable of being "re-born" in its own higher state which is luminous if not shiny, which would be White Vajra Tara.

    Everything has this capability, even ignorance or Avidya, in which case it would be said to arise as Maha Avidya. Although this term can mean "great" in a variety of contexts, it comes to mean new forms produced from Sambhoga Kaya, such as Maha Vairocana and so on. Thus they have Six Arms or other extraordinary features. Objects or any forms certainly have a "new light".



    Concerning the Mahamaya Mahesvari in Mahakala's retinue, the second ring includes Kalika which is Kali, followed by Red Carcika similar to her, Candesvari carrying a Deer, and Kulisesvari.

    Vajrajvalanalarka can be found using a Mahamaya Cakra that Bhattacharya does not mention.

    Buddhadakini that is with male Mahamaya is crowned by Vairocana and has the unusual mantra Om Om Hum. This one varies by using the All-Purpose Mantra of Karma (Visva) dakini, Om Ha Hum.

    Vajravarahi is used as the consort in the stand-alone sadhana of Seven Syllable Vajradaka. So female Mahamaya is probably only his consort in the full Vajradaka Tantra and so is not likely to appear in the IWS. She might only be found in imagery if Vajradaka "of the tantra" can be distinguished somewhere in the mass of Chakrasamvaras.



    Back on Vajrapani's Six Yogas synopsis, he uses the term Pravrtti which is active, thrown forward into manifestation. Pratyahara is the negation of it, which takes for instance a Vya or "Looking" Eye and makes a Divya or Dine Eye, and so on:


    iha pratyāhāro nāma bāhyarūpādiviṣayeṣv apravṛttiś
    kṣurādīndriyaiś cakṣurvijñānādīnām| adhyātmani viṣayeṣu pravṛttir
    vyacakṣurādīndriyair divyacakṣurvijñānādīnām iti| adhyātmani śūnyatā-
    mbhanenāakalpitaṁ sarvabhāvadarśanaṁ śūnye pratisenādarśe
    mārikāyā iveti pratyāhārāṅgam ucyate traidhātukabuddhabimba-
    rśanād iti|

    Then Dhyana occurs when voidness of all dharmas is seen to be reality:

    tato dhyānaṁ nāma śūnyeṣu sarvadharmeṣu dṛṣṭeṣu satsu|

    It then focuses Pravrtti as just mentioned and houses it in the ajna:

    ajñā nāma teṣu cittapravṛttiḥ|

    Vitarka and Vicara are Graha and Graha Pratipatti, the practice or yoga of it:

    vitarko nāma bhāvagrahaṇaṁ citta
    sya| vicāro nāmo bhāvagrahaṇapratipattiḥ|

    Rati is all that Bhavana stabilized to Acala Sukha and Sukha Sampatti:

    ratir nāma sarvabhāveṣu
    tāropaṇam acalasukhaṁ nāma sarvabhāvebhyaḥ sukhasaṁpattiḥ| evaṁ
    ñcadhā dhyānāṅgam ucyate|

    Vitarka is one of those "scaling" terms, which can mean defiled or Discursive Thought, mentation generally, or then an aspect of dhyana such that:

    Vitarka (वितर्क, “examination”) refers to one of the five characteristics of the first dhyāna according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XXVIII).—“are vitarka and vicāra one and the same thing or are they two different things? Answer.—They are two different things. Vitarka is the first moment of a coarse mind, vicāra is a more subtle (sūkṣma) analysis. Thus, when a bell is struck, the first sound is strong, the subsequent sound is weaker; this is vicāra”.

    Also, “although the two things reside in the same mind, their characteristics re not simultaneous: at the moment of vitarka, the vicāra is blurred (apaṭu); at the moment of vicāra, the vitarka is blurred. Thus, when the sun rises, the shadows disappear. All the minds (citta) and all the mental events receive their name prorata with time: [vitarka and vicāra are distinct names of one single mind]”.

    So, yes, in that analaysis, a slight gradation from Vitarka to Vicara would be expected in Dhyana, until, later, Dharma Pravichaya is I believe the extension of Vicara in the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment.

    He then has romanticized or updates "bliss" which was called Priti or Joy in the original Dhyana classifications.

    Priti is part of the first Dhyana as Mudita is the first Bhumi and part of the Brahma Vihara. They are both Joy in an emotional context until you look at the Dhyanas where the likelihood of physical ecstasies is stated. Then we have reason to ally these synonyms with tantric Bliss and note the main part of the procedure is called Joys by still other synonyms.




    Juggling from Vajrapani to Vajradaka, there is something other than a "clutter of miscellaneous rites" like in Samputa Tantra and elsewhere.


    Chapter Eleven begins with the Four Cakras and the Letters and then goes on to six practices of Attraction--Akarsana--Hook.

    It is a compact enough bundle that we might tend to think it is actually making the female and male Triangles.

    As a tangent, although I mostly operate in a mantric basis without much success at visualization with effort, the other day I found a self-arisen White Hexagram which lasted for about eight seconds. Very plain.

    Translators don't always pick up on the practical aspects, and I doubt this is a random array.

    First are three meditations as Mahamaya to attract:

    A person

    The consciousness of anyone in the three worlds, Padakarsana

    The "lump", Pinda

    which are three ways of using Hook Rays.

    It is at least partly red and uses three similar Mahamayas.



    Next are three meditations as Vajradaka attracting other things:

    White Four Face Vajradaka, semen out of the head

    Yellow Four Face Horse Head arisen from Vi, Liquor by unexplained method

    Red Vajradaka born from Ram and a Sword, Four Faced Jackal head with each devi having jackal head, blood using weapons



    I am sure I just waltzed over that strange Four Horse Face recently and cannot place it.

    Now with Vajradaka at least we can make some quick associations with Red and White, Sun and Moon, and, maybe, this Yellow is why you also have Vairocani and Cinnamasta, Vajravilasini, Jewel Family Vajravarahi, etc.

    In the original way it is written, Vajradaka starts at 27cd:

    tadanantaraṃ
    madhyamasyāntasaṃyuktam ◊ /
    bindunādasamākrāntaṃ ◊ kāyavākcittasaṃsthitam //26//
    bhāvayed bhāvabhāvena ◊ piṇḍākarṣaṇam uttamam /
    bhagamadhyagataṃ caiva ◊ cintayej jñānasāgaram //27//

    White:

    akṣarākṣaraniṣpannaṃ ◊ śuklavarṇaṃ caturmukham /
    vajrakhaṭvāṅgadharaṃ vīraṃ ◊ candrārdhakṛtaśekharam //28//
    kapālacaṣakaṃ cāpi ◊ bhāvayec chvāsaniścalam /
    anilānalasaṃyuktam ◊ //29//
    māhendravaruṇākrāntaṃ ◊ sphārayet spharaṇātmakam /
    sādhyam ālambya yatnena ◊ śukrākarṣaṇam uttamam //30//

    Yellow:

    vikārajñānaniṣpannaṃ ◊ pītavarṇasamaprabham /
    caturbhujaṃ caturvaktraṃ ◊ kapālālaṃkṛtamūrdhajame
    //31//
    tarjanīvajrapāśaṃ ca ◊ kapālaṃ cāpi vāmataḥ /
    dakṣiṇe tu jvaladvajram ◊ aṅkuśaṃ ca tathā param //32//
    hayākāramukhaṃ kṛtvā ◊ madyākarṣaṇam uttamam /

    Red:

    rakārajñānaniṣpannaṃ ◊
    raktavarṇaṃ mahāghoram ◊ //33//
    kapālamālādharaṃ vīraṃe ◊ sarvālaṃkārabhūṣitam /
    caturbhujaṃ caturvaktraṃ ◊ jambūkāsyavirājitam //34//
    khaṭvāṅgaṃ ca kapālaṃ ca ◊ vajrakhaḍgaṃ tathā param /
    sādhyam ālambya yatnena ◊ raktaśobhitavigraham //35//
    sphārayeḍ ḍākinīcakraṃ ◊ cūṣayantyāṃ vibhāvayet /
    sūkṣmavajraprabhāvena ◊ raktākarṣaṇam uttamam //36//


    ity āha bhagavān vajrī ◊ vajrasattvas tathāgataḥ /
    sarvamāyāsamāyoga-◊-vajraḍākaḥ prasidhyati //37//
    iti sarvamāyāvikurvito nāma paṭala ekādaśamaḥ /


    Does Yellow have Horse as per Ratna Family? Perhaps.

    It it going to take over Rahu or Avadhut? Probably.

    It is strange that its left hand Vajra Noose is mentioned first before its right hand Flaming Vajra. We would have to say that what it says about Madya or liquor is nothing, and plug in the equation it is a synonym of Varuni.

    It says a lot less about itself than I can say even by saying anything about it, and is noticeably smaller than the other two.

    Madya is not referred to anywhere else in this extract. However, I also do not see where Vajradaka is specifically named in the passages, not in any way that the Yellow fails to follow.

    The seeds used for the three Vajradakas are Ah Vi Ra.

    That is detectable as a Heroes' mantra I have seen several times.

    We see this points straight into the similar symbols of Rahu and Cinnamasta, and that there is a Horse Head involved.

    When Vairocani is understood as the influx to Cinnamasta, in this way, she is really beyond Indrani, because she is Tvastr Shakti.

    Nectar of Tvastr is Aswin Shakti.

    This requires Horse Head Rite.

    There you have Amrita as the actual Nectar of Immortality as compared to Long Life Medicine. From this Nectar, then, Vajra Kaya or Amaravajra or Deathlessness, meaning in a Noumenal way, so that for instance if you decide to take rebirth then you do so from Tusita and "go down the staircase".

    Presumably this would be quite similar to the current condition of Maitreya.

    This is why I would think that Nectar Offering, Mrtyuvacana, is like Vitarka and Vicara, in that the latter especially can have ever superior grades, more profound--gambhira and subtle--suksma; mrdu--soft.

    With Tara, there is Amrita Locana which is part of Prasanna which cerrtainly means a superior grade.

    So there is something to "why" have Vairocani entangled in a great deal of the material, since you can look at ever better formulations of Nectar until you reach the Quality which is Equal to the Power of Tvastr.

    Beyond that, I would say it is also a reason to have something such as Vetali or Corpse involved in the methodology, since she actually can be shown as playing a role in Rasa such as this.

    The only remaining thing is the Quicksilver but the previous means Sahaja or Four Joys. Mercury is used for Eight.

    Both of the surviving Sanskrit texts of Vajradaka Tantra that were not recovered in Nepal are in Newari script.

    Avira is what specifically links Mahavairocana to Six Elements.

    It is in the Garbhadhatuu to produce the Vajradhatu.

    There you have the return from the fact that five-fold Vairocana got out of the way and let anyone go to the center.

    It is from the NSB mantras.

    There are two forms of the Vidya most commonly associated with Mahavairocana - a va ra ha kham and a vi ra hum kham. In the center is the seed syllable elaborate 'ahm', the very top is plain 'ah'. The Vajra dhatu (diamond realm) represents the wisdom or consciousness aspect of Virocana. In the Gharbhakosa (lit. womb store) dhatu, the Vidya has a complex range of associations but are strongly connected with the 5 elements(dhatu) of earth(prithvi), Water(apas), Fire(agni), Air(vayu), and Space(akasha). Mahavairocana himself represents the 6th element that completes the set of elements which make up all of the universe: ie consciousness.

    Because it has this renown, there is nothing unusual in discovering Vajradaka meted out this way.
    Last edited by shaberon; 21st April 2021 at 05:19.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote ...and in what we might call Kalachakra style has attached the root center or Guhya Kamala.
    Okay, thanks. I wasn't sure how to do the Guhya Kamala part.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    I had something longer written, but it disappeared by hitting key in a flash, the reply window seems very fragile sometimes.

    What I had said was that this kind of debate, while important to know, seems very much like the debates in mathematics that happen sometimes for centuries until someone comes up with precisely the right way of saying something or writing something.

    I am coming off of spending a bunch of days understanding something about topos theory (the link is to part one of four), which is a mathematical theory of theories, in which it is always promised that one will be able to prove things that will apply to many different kinds of thought.

    A single undifferentiated reality makes a reality out of whatever is perceived if one is not differentiating, which arguably isn't an easy task, but it seems like there needs to be a richer vocabulary, which is why people then populate a simple decision that undifferentiated is reality with all sorts of other things. It seems to indicate (to me) that a richer vocabulary would help. And it seems like the vocabulary in use is so rich, with all of the terms and all of the stages and grounds and so forth. But it is after all that, missing something, and somewhere in that missing place is the thing everyone is trying to characterize.

    That seems like a lot of the 'digging' that happens in my shaking when my listening is trying to understand something. It almost always leads to something with no or not much self, but it is in itself hard to characterize.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote That might not be the only way you can do it.

    But yes it is the general principle behind All-Purpose (Sarvakarmika) Amritakundalin and Khandaroha.
    I'm not sure, it seems like it's a bird to bird communication.

    Quote She starts as Akash with Patani, etc., in Chapter 1 and 42.

    Vajradaka Mulamantra says something as to why I tend to see Janguli with a Seven Serpent Hood as the poison processing precursor to the Jewels of Enlightenment with Vajradaka in this phrase:

    sapta-pātāla-gata-bhujaṅga-sarpaṃ

    Yes, it does paint her almost exactly as Blue Kurukulla. Male Mahamaya has Bow and Arrow, but not Hook and Noose.
    The Bow and Arrow were the important part when I was looking at it, and the facing direction which was opposite.
    Quote The Buddhadakini that is with Mahamaya is Vajravairocani who has not only increased in wrath and to four arms, but she displays the skill of mounting him sexually with no feet on the ground. This to me sounds like a mix of Akasha or Khecari or Flight with Bliss at a Jnanamudra level.
    How odd that we again have Vajravairocani. It seems she might have a descriptive value, sort of the way you describe a sort of 'little m' marici as being a ray of light, rather than describing Marici the deity. The Romans did this too, Venus was both love and the goddess of love, there was no space between the two for them.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote There is Refuge Vow and Four Brahma Vihara and then a section on Grahyagraha and Paramartha.
    So in some other places, there seems to be a 'usual' juxtaposition of grahakagraha and grahyagraha, one being the knower and one the known. Is this the same grahyagraha here? I know you had used it before with grasping and grasper or something, and I know one part of it is synonomous with the word used for the planets.


    Then you have:

    Quote Kaya--Bhucari

    Vak--Khecari

    Citta--Nairatma
    This seems interesting. Body is related to ground walking, speech to sky walking, and then mind to -- without atma.

    Quote She is also quite close to Self-arisen White Heruka. In other words, if I visualize White Tara "with effort", I am going to compose an image probably like Mrtyuvacana, and then, if I persist, this image will become easy and then just follow me around, at which point it is capable of being "re-born" in its own higher state which is luminous if not shiny, which would be White Vajra Tara.
    Is this really the way visualization is supposed to work? When it becomes easy one is re-born? I'm thinking about the multiple states that I have been doing, when they get easy do they become part of me somehow? I'm not sure of this and it seems right but it also seems unlikely.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    So in some other places, there seems to be a 'usual' juxtaposition of grahakagraha and grahyagraha, one being the knower and one the known. Is this the same grahyagraha here? I know you had used it before with grasping and grasper or something, and I know one part of it is synonomous with the word used for the planets.
    Yes; again it is kind of a "graded" word, from having unpleasant lower associations, to being the subtle duality permeated throughout the mind and why Object or Vajra goddesses are very important Bodhisattvas.

    Because the tantric Graha vocabulary involves that of the Yogacara, that is why I am prepared to say the Three Voids correspond to the Sutra teachings of Parikalpita, Paratantra, and Paramartha.




    Quote Kaya--Bhucari

    Vak--Khecari

    Citta--Nairatma
    This seems interesting. Body is related to ground walking, speech to sky walking, and then mind to -- without atma.
    Yes. I think something has shifted from the "Underworld" as is standard for instance in Vajradaka Tantra:

    1) ‘a woman going in the sky’ (khecarī--Citta), 2) ‘a woman going on the ground’ (bhūcarī--Vak), 3) ‘a woman living underground’ (pātālavāsinī--Kaya).

    Because again the Akash or Khecari is like an initial discovery which moves on to new functions, such as Sambhogakaya, which is mainly established by the throat. If the first Vak women are Bhucari then they can be other individuals proficient in mantra, but then the second wave with Nairatma are like Vidhyadharis who have accomplished a significant tantric change.




    Quote Is this really the way visualization is supposed to work? When it becomes easy one is re-born? I'm thinking about the multiple states that I have been doing, when they get easy do they become part of me somehow? I'm not sure of this and it seems right but it also seems unlikely.

    Well, yes, it is still rather like the Vishuddhi Magga and Theravada exercises on "anything". If it is a coffee cup, at some point after I am able to visualize a normal one effortlessly, then it could, so to speak, arise as a Maha coffee cup.

    If visualization = samadhi which, when combined with Abhisambodhis, definitely has death and rebirth, because it is employing the Bardo consciousness, and one is re-born as deity.

    Heruka is really the name for a Vajrasattva that has come up on his own in a more brilliant and shiny form.

    Then it is like trying to get such a "simple" self-arisen Heruka to pop out the other side of a Void Sequence as Four Face Maha Vairocana.


    I found something in the Vajradaka that pertains to Maha Vairocana and added it in the preceding post.

    If we look at what this means compared to Nairatma also arising as the sixth principle, one could say it is considered they cause shifts.

    This may be the only place where she governs Citta Cakra. She is always the sixth or manasic or mental principle, but, there is that of the novice, and that of one who has begun the Relative Bodhicitta, and so on up.

    She does mean No Human Ego but she is co-substantial with Vajra Garvi or Divine Ego.

    In our table of correspondences, the "sixth skandha" is Sakkaya Ditthi, a belief that skandhas may have inherent meaning, or that one may have any identity in them. This faults the third Noble Truth and says the Path is unimportant or does not apply to me.

    And so Nairatma has to do with stopping the skandhas in a mental way, not artificial.

    The full term from Dharma Samgraha is Pudgala Nairatma.

    In Buddhism, Pudgala means the entity that reincarnates as an individual or person, i.e., the bundle of tendencies that keeps an individual reincarnating until they attain enlightenment.

    I. e., samsara and other skandhas.

    Pudgala [puggala] an individual, self. Pudgala stands for an individual entity as opposed to a group. It signifies a sentient being who is a mere combination of material as well as mental processes. According to one etymology, human beings are called pudgala-s because they have to undergo afflictions in hell due to their evil actions. [Pun ti vuccati nirayo tasmin galantīti puggalā.]

    2. A person, in the everyday sense of an individual.

    3. The concept of personhood, particularly in the philosophical sense of an enduring self similar to (but not quite the same as) the eternal soul (ātman),

    called Pratyeka by the Mahatmas in distinction to Amrita,

    If I am non-dual then I do not have any such "person" that can be individually distinguished from the cosmos.

    Nairatma I think says there is no Pudgala in the Citta Cakra, which is the Heart, which houses the "real" Manas, which is Bodhi.

    Then you get a really clear sixth principle able to handle the seventh.


    I am not quite sure I would put it as easy visualization means you are re-born, but that Heruka Yoga is essential for the Abhisambodhis and so on.

    Nairatma has this same role with Vajra Tara. We could say that although Sadhanamala has staggering revelations of devis such as Marici and Vajravarahi, these are at least well-known from other sources. Vajra Tara is not also a Hindu deity like Kurukulla, she is not a generic Tara in Vajra Family, she is massive and powerful for something that has little visible representation elsewhere. She did however at Ratnagiri.

    If it seems peculiarly sensible to deploy Nairatma in this manner in Citta Cakra, then perhaps that is the appropriate tantric "template" for you.

    After seeing that Hevajra, I will say that the same author's Vajra Tara 110 heavily follows the same stamp if not quoting entire passages from it. Differences are she does Inverted Stupa up to Bhrum since she is interested in affixing Usnisa of Ratna Family (along with Sumbha of Vajra Family), and that she is initiation into Vajra Surya (Wrathful Ratna Heruka, or, i. e. what the Book of the Dead says actually emanates the wrathful deities in the Bardo).

    Now what is inside that Secret Sun really has much more to do with the perfection of Amrita as we have described.

    As to how conversant she may be to Hevajra, her Nyasa says:

    āyataneṣu vijñeyā hṛdyā nairātmyayoginī //

    although she gives Citta Vajra to Mohavajra in the Tri-kaya next.

    She has actually just used Tara mantra to attract ten Paramita devis. And in this section, Nairatma is juxtaposed with Afflictive Emotions:

    mohavajrāṃ nyasen netre dveṣavajrāṃ ca karṇataḥ /
    īrṣyāvajrāṃ tathā ghrāṇe vaktre tu rāgavajrikām //
    saparśe mātsaryavajrāṃ vai sarvakleśatamo 'pahām /
    āyataneṣu vijñeyā hṛdyā nairātmyayoginī //
    iti cakṣurādyadhiṣṭhānam /
    dvibhujāś caikavaktrāḥ syurnānārūpā hi yoṣitaḥ /
    katrikapālakaravyagrā gataprāṇordhvasaṃsthitāḥ //

    So it is as if she has fused the mental or vijnana aspect of the ayatanas into the heart, as if the heart-mind were a mental-only mind.

    She is pervasive and has a couple other examples.

    Vajra Tara 94:

    kāye cerṣyāvajrāṃ tu mano nairātmyayoginī //



    Vajra Tara 95:

    tad anu cakṣurādiṣu mohavajrādayaḥ ṣaṭ cintanīyāḥ,
    kāyavākcitteṣu oṃ-āḥ-huṃkārapariṇatāṃ khecarī-
    bhūcarīnairātmāś cintanīyāḥ /

    So there she is using the same Nairatma = Citta Cakra pattern.


    She is used by Khasarpana, Canda Maharoshana, and Vistara Tara.

    The corresponding Dharma Nairatma is Cunda and Marici and is a somewhat common thing usually dismissed with Emptiness Mantra.

    Nairatma is extra Nairatma in her personal sadhana which forms the end of our current Sadhanamala text at 228.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Yes; again it is kind of a "graded" word, from having unpleasant lower associations, to being the subtle duality permeated throughout the mind and why Object or Vajra goddesses are very important Bodhisattvas.
    I checked on this end (graha being an important word in India because of Satyagraha), it doesn't just mean to hold or seize, but also to receive (grahankara).

    Quote If it is a coffee cup, at some point after I am able to visualize a normal one effortlessly, then it could, so to speak, arise as a Maha coffee cup.

    If visualization = samadhi which, when combined with Abhisambodhis, definitely has death and rebirth, because it is employing the Bardo consciousness, and one is re-born as deity.
    From my own personal experience, it takes more than this, arising as a deity if one follows the instructions in, e.g. Lama Yeshe's book (I did so assiduously with Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini, before finding out I wasn't 'supposed' to do that without an initiation), it has a feel to it of being, and then when Locana did the possession thing it had a feel to it of being, the latter was very very far beyond what the former had been. Maybe the second is really really being the coffee cup and the first is just being the coffee cup or something. And I do sense there is an even more thing.

    Quote If I am non-dual then I do not have any such "person" that can be individually distinguished from the cosmos.

    Nairatma I think says there is no Pudgala in the Citta Cakra, which is the Heart, which houses the "real" Manas, which is Bodhi.
    My limited experience with Nairatmya is of someone with form but without being. Having written that, I am again sensing that I'm coming up against a difficulty in expression. It is possible to experience not-being/being without all appearance of form being altered in any way or something like that.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I checked on this end (graha being an important word in India because of Satyagraha), it doesn't just mean to hold or seize, but also to receive (grahankara).
    Yes, let us think of it as one of those things like an infinity knot or Pisces Fish, like Kula Akula, Varrta Avartta, sort of like the "thing to stabilize" with respect to the Three Channels, it is the associated mental context.


    The Yogacara phrase is Grahyagrahaka, which comes from:


    the subject or the knower (grahakagraha) and a relation with the object which is known (grahyagraha)

    So yes, Grahaka is "receiving" impressions, knowledge, etc., and when you whisk away the clutter-sh "graha" endings, then we wind up something that reads more like Seized and Seizer, and it is the duality of cognized and cognizer, Parikalpita, which is, in reality, to the Paratantra or Other-Dependent, non-existent.

    Parikalpita, an imaginary nature which says there could be identity in Skandhas, is non-existent.

    Duality of the Object and Knower is non-existent.

    And so the sin of the seventh principle is this, which faults the fourth Noble Truth by saying the Path is wrong. It is called Drsti; Vajrasrnkhala is a Drsti Sampatti.

    Transcending this sin handles Parikalpita or the First Void.

    That is how it seems to fit to me and why the seventh principle turns out to be a "Three in One", such as Three Natures, Three Voids, or Shakti or Agni.


    The Other-Dependent or Paratantra can't do anything if you don't feed it.

    Drsti is of course sensitive to the slightest Karmic Wind.

    If it is and the Paratantra does, well, you go back to samsara.



    In Sadhanamala, Grahyagrahaka comes up a reasonable amount of times, such as by Avalokiteshvara in relation to Mahatma:

    mantrārtham āmukhīkurvana sarvaṃ vastu mahātmanā /
    grāhyagrāhakanirmuktaṃ bhāvayet jñānamātrakam //


    and to Svapna Indra Jala Upama and Natural Luminosity from Void:

    grāhyagrāhakahānito jagad idaṃ svapnendrajālopamaṃ śuddhaṃ ca prakṛtiprabhāsvaratayā vyomopamāmāśritam /
    ātmānaṃ ca manovilāsakalitaṃ niśritya saṃkṣepato muḥkāraṃ punaraṃśujālajaṭilaṃ tatsambhavaṃ bhāvayet //


    Canda Maharoshana again related to Svapna Maya and Voidness Mantra:

    174ḷ01 bhāvayitvā jagad idaṃ niḥsvabhāvasvabhāvaṃ grāhyagrāhakavinirmuktaṃ
    174ḷ02 svapnamāyopamaṃ buddhvā śūnyatāṃ vibhāvayet oṃ
    174ḷ03 śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham /


    Vajra Tara breaks it in bits which I would think is much like Varnani and Vairocani:

    yathā svapne cittādanyatra
    grāhyaṃ na vidyate grāhyābhāvāt, cittam api grāhakaṃ
    na bhavati, tasmād viśvam idaṃ niḥsvabhāvaṃ pratikṛtipariśuddhaṃ
    ādyam anutpannaṃ paśyet /


    And brings it back around in the material we just looked at, along with, what I believe is a unique instance of using the phrase Citta Sarira--Mental Body:

    tasmāc cittaśarīrāḥ sarvadharmāḥ teṣāṃ
    grāhyagrāhakaśūnyatā paramārtha ity evam ekāntena niścitya
    bhrāntisamāropitaṃ bhrānticihnaṃ sarvadharmāṇām ākāram apahāya
    teṣāṃ prakṛtim eva kevalām advayavijñaptilakṣaṇāṃ
    śuddhasphaṭikasaṅkāśāṃ śaradamalamadhyāhnagaganopamāmanantāṃ
    paśyet / idam ucyate lokottaraṃ śūnyatājñānaṃ niṣprapañcaṃ
    nirvikalpam /


    Janguli has it in perhaps a more preliminary way directing it into Purity Mantra:

    prathamaṃ tāvan mantrī śuciḥ snātaḥ śuklamālyāmbaradharaḥ
    śuklagandhānulipto vijane sulipte pradeśe śuklasugandhitoyopasikte
    śuklapuṣpaprakarāvakīrṇe sukhāsanopaviṣṭo jagati
    maitrīkaruṇāmuditopekṣāṃ vibhāvya oṃ svabhāvaśuddhāḥ sarvadharmāḥ
    svabhāvaśuddho 'ham ity uccārya jagad grāhyagrāhakarahitaṃ
    paśyet /



    Hevajra Tantra Krama Svadisthana Kurukulla is going to do something with it in terms of a, I suppose, resurrected Pudgala, which blends into Voidness Mantra:

    tato dharmmapuḍgalayor grāhyagrāhakasvabhāvayor abhāva-
    svabhāvām advayavijñaptilakṣaṇāṃ śūnyatāṃ vibhāvya tanmantreṇādhi-
    tiṣṭhet - oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham iti /


    That is strange and perhaps takes into account that Dharma and Pudgala are both known to be Nairatma. I suppose it is saying dharmas, persons, subjects, objects, have no becoming as you non-dualize into pure consciousness, which again flows into Voidness Mantra.





    Quote From my own personal experience, it takes more than this, arising as a deity if one follows the instructions in, e.g. Lama Yeshe's book (I did so assiduously with Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini, before finding out I wasn't 'supposed' to do that without an initiation), it has a feel to it of being, and then when Locana did the possession thing it had a feel to it of being, the latter was very very far beyond what the former had been. Maybe the second is really really being the coffee cup and the first is just being the coffee cup or something. And I do sense there is an even more thing.
    Oh, yes, completely, Bhava and the rest up to Pranidhana and then the example of Samaya.

    Even Samaya is a two-lobed axis...time spent in upholding the behaviors that represent the bond, into Time spent in the actual presence of the deity.

    In my case they are 99% Bhava, if I say I have relationships to Tara and Sarasvati, it is from cultivating them in the fairly ordinary common and garden devotional means.

    Almost nothing to do with any signs whatsoever.

    Vajrasattva and Vajradhara are a little different. The former as a fairly constant practice is to some degree palpable but not visual. The second is, to me at least, as I have described, so subtle as to be almost nothing and yet extraoridnarily powerful, which requires an almost cave-like environment for me to cope with.

    Deity Yoga means that for instance Tara is used within this. Whereas certain Mantras and Dharanis are allowed to be conveyed into the mundane environment, and/or you can use them in a session that is lighter and briefer than Guru Yoga--Deity Yoga.

    I just meant with respect to the visual sense, it is supposed to work that way.

    Truly merging with the deity is part of Completion Stage, which is not the same as generating the form of the deity on one's person.



    Quote My limited experience with Nairatmya is of someone with form but without being. Having written that, I am again sensing that I'm coming up against a difficulty in expression. It is possible to experience not-being/being without all appearance of form being altered in any way or something like that.

    That is where the technical Sanskrit terms come in. She wouldn't have any skandhas which might make it seem like no one is there. Maybe she is looking for a male principle to trigger samadhi. Or maybe you mean something else.


    Nairatma 228 is a Mahaghora who emanates her retinue and the Gauris from the Vowels. She becomes Ali Kali Sampatti by bringing in the Dhyani Buddhas. So, as we saw in some tantras about Vajragarbha as the mantra wheel, then Nairatma is like a level three boss of it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The Yogacara phrase is Grahyagrahaka, which comes from:


    the subject or the knower (grahakagraha) and a relation with the object which is known (grahyagraha)

    So yes, Grahaka is "receiving" impressions, knowledge, etc., and when you whisk away the clutter-sh "graha" endings, then we wind up something that reads more like Seized and Seizer, and it is the duality of cognized and cognizer, Parikalpita, which is, in reality, to the Paratantra or Other-Dependent, non-existent.
    Not sure if this is important (it was undoubtably noted somewhere by someone) but they are male and female, grahaka is Sanskrit masculine, grahya is feminine, when they are nouns, which they aren't always I guess.

    Quote Duality of the Object and Knower is non-existent.
    I just happen to be at a place (chapter 37) of the Avatamsaka where they are talking about 'thusness' and giving analogies to the creation of the universe from a cloud that rained. There is a state, the state they are talking about in the chapter, where the Buddha creates the teaching the same way the world is "never born and never decays but comes into being nevertheless".

    Quote Truly merging with the deity is part of Completion Stage, which is not the same as generating the form of the deity on one's person.
    Ah, so there is a set of different levels of being the deity. Good to know.

    Quote That is where the technical Sanskrit terms come in. She wouldn't have any skandhas which might make it seem like no one is there. Maybe she is looking for a male principle to trigger samadhi. Or maybe you mean something else.
    I guess I meant that my experience was of something like that line I paraphrased from the Avatamsaka, neither existing nor not-existing but nevertheless coming into being. I hadn't really thought about it when you wrote what I was reacting to, but there seem to be a lot of very different not-self's.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Not sure if this is important (it was undoubtably noted somewhere by someone) but they are male and female, grahaka is Sanskrit masculine, grahya is feminine, when they are nouns, which they aren't always I guess.

    Allright, then it would be feminine Grahya--Seized, masculine Grahaka--Seizer.

    The root Graha is multi-faceted to say the least. Here is one Hindu definition where we could practically say, oh, the Pudgala and the Tri-kaya:

    12) [v.s. ...] Name of the 8 organs of perception (viz. the 5 organs of sense with Manas, the hands and the voice), [Śatapatha-brāhmaṇa xiv; Nṛsiṃha-tāpanīya-upaniṣad i, 4, 3, 22]


    Nowhere remotely Buddhist in origin, but, used pretty specifically in Yogacara.

    Seeing it defined as Parikalpita by someone else is reassuring. I had assembled that view just by following the symbols.

    If so, this is a really good marker to show how the Tantras bridge to the Sutras. So far, one of the most concise but thorough digests of all tantra is Dakini Jala Rahasya, which combines several important factors along with Five Dissolutions ending in Void. I did not know it, but this, appears to be a sort of demarcation zone including everything under the Parikalpita. This Void, per se, is definitely a work area, until the nature of Three Voids hits.

    Graha is also an equivalent of the seventh sin, Atma Graha, which is a way of saying the older Atta Drsti.

    Imputation of a personal identity whatsoever.



    Quote I just happen to be at a place (chapter 37) of the Avatamsaka where they are talking about 'thusness' and giving analogies to the creation of the universe from a cloud that rained. There is a state, the state they are talking about in the chapter, where the Buddha creates the teaching the same way the world is "never born and never decays but comes into being nevertheless".

    I would contend that the most subtle mysteries are Time, Death, and the Aswins.

    I certainly have an odd perception of time, like a growing egg. When I deal with people then of course I have awareness of what they are saying in the moment, but what I get is more like an astral image of them which "inflates" in Time until it displays their entire life cycle. I am not sensitive enough to really see this, but, I can get enough from it that makes it really easy to suss out a liar.

    To deal with this I suppose is the same science of Brahman as held by Adwaitees.

    There is a No Time (Nirguna) and With Time (Sadguna).

    The world comes into being effectively enough for those who experience it.

    In Yogacara terms, if I kill someone, that means my Manas affected their Manas in such a way as to permanently interrupt Ordinary Waking Consciousness.

    If I am any good at Yogacara, it would instead happen that my Manas affects their Manas in such a way as to tend towards Samadhi. If I perceive that as one flow instead of one unit to another, it will flatten my Skandhas.




    Quote Ah, so there is a set of different levels of being the deity. Good to know.
    Yes. The self-generated Form of a deity is just a way to do Body Mandala. And so you are also going to have Vak and Citta. And you would increase each of them with Karma Mudra, Jnana Mudra, Dharma Mudra, and Maha Mudra. The goal is to get to the Mahamudra and whatever extremely subtle things it involves.

    It has Inner, Outer, and Secret aspects, and "Secret" is like one's "personal time" where occurs the initiatory process. Those are the Wheels of Time.

    Hook and Noose are Invite and Request to Remain (also Seeing or Entering the Mandala), Chain is a Bond, Bell is Satisfaction. And so you would tend to cycle these Four Activities up to Bell, which is conveyed to the Mudras or Initiations.

    It seems to me this is encapsulated in the "Vajri Bhava" part of Hundred Syllable Mantra, because it suggests Vajrasattva is undergoing such procedures in the realm of the Vajri goddesses, which leads to a "shift" from the older STTS mandala formats, through things which, we might say, are equal to the Garbhadhatu--Vajradhatu and Vajrasekhara. I am convinced that most of this can be handled on a Dharani basis by an informed practitioner. Rigid guidelines would be needed for persons who want to try but have little ability. If you are able to study and get a lot of it by Inner Meaning you do not have to become a monk.




    Quote I guess I meant that my experience was of something like that line I paraphrased from the Avatamsaka, neither existing nor not-existing but nevertheless coming into being. I hadn't really thought about it when you wrote what I was reacting to, but there seem to be a lot of very different not-self's.

    On this one, there are not any Hindu or general usages of Nairatma.

    It is in Lalita Vistara, Lankavatara Sutra, and as the devi.

    “... Just as a lump of clay is made into various shapes, so it is the non-essential nature of all phenomena and their freedom from all characteristics that is variously described as the garbha or the nairātmya (essencelessness)”.

    There is Dharma Nairatma (no inherent self of things) and Pudgala Nairatma.

    Nairatma was consequential to Virupa, who attempted to stop blood rituals, is significant in Nath, and possibly the author of the first Hatha Yoga book, Amritasiddhi, which mentions Cinnamasta, although they have only found texts from centuries after Virupa.


    His story was that he had practiced Chakrasamvara for years without any result, and threw his rosary in the toilet.

    That very night, in a dream, he saw Nairatmaya as a blue ordinary lady.

    She spoke to him saying, "Son of my race, such an inappropriate act was not well done. Retrieve your mala and wash it with scented water. Confess and commit yourself to right practice. I am the deity with whom you have a karmic connection. I will bless you and you will swiftly reach attainment." Speaking thus she disappeared.


    Shri Dharmapala [Virupa's ordination name] awoke and arose with his mind filled with regret. The next day, on the twenty-third, he retrieved his mala and did as she prophesied. That night he perceived the primordial wisdom emanation body of Vajra Nairatmya with a retinue of fifteen goddesses and they bestowed upon him the complete four empowerments in their mandala. During the empowerment the primordial wisdom of the path of seeing arose in his mind, which is the stage of a first bhumi Bodhisattva. Similarly, his realization advanced successively each night until the night of the twenty ninth when he reached the realization of the sixth bhumi.


    Nairatma not only called herself an "I", she practically said she was human.

    What? If there is a goddess who has been my hearing since beginningless time...is there not another who has been my human since beginningless time?


    Hevajra Tantra was requested by Vajra Garbha and Nairatma. One way of counting its lineage is:

    --- Adibuddha Vajradhara
    --- Vajranairatmya
    01. Mahasiddha Virupa (Mahasiddha Birwapa)


    From the Buddhist historical point of view, the Tantric deity Nairatmya directly appeared to Virupa and bestowed the Hevajra empowerment - this is called the 'Near Lineage.' According to the Sakya Tradition, Virupa later appeared to Sachen Kunga Nyingpo in Tibet and again bestowed empowerments for Hevajra and consort and this is called the 'Very Near Lineage.'.




    Cleveland has a fine specimen which shows that Nairatma is allowed to consort with Vajradhara; it is an Ngor piece and Virupa is there in his normal dark form.

    Virupa has several forms, and, much as Ngor seems to be a repository for white deities up to Amaravajra, here, it looks like they have placed him with Samputa Vajrasattva:








    That would be an anachronism, if it was composed after him. Nairatma is an anachronism. She has been there since beginningless time but not in our world until Virupa--aside from the fact if he had a karmic connection, it means from another lifetime. Nairatma is in Buddha Kapala mandala so actually she is at the beginning of tantra.

    His lineages are held in all the schools of Buddhism.

    Time also melts when I ask what she just did to it.

    Virupa must have known of Vajra Garbha and carried him forward into the terrible accident with whatever the blue lady is. If among other things, she is Ali Kali Sampatti, that fits her in with the previous scriptures.

    I am pretty sure we don't have the whole article for Nairatma 228, but, there is a lot, and we can see she has "the two Gauris". And first of all she is strange because she has some Gauris as Gatekeepers culminating in Ghasmari. Another part of her retinue is strange because we will have to say--which one is Vajradakini?

    indre vajrā yame gaurī vāruṇyāṃ vāriyoginī /
    kaubare vajraḍākī ca madhye nairātmyayoginī //

    It is unusual since here is has West = Varuna = Vari (Water) Yogini.

    It is possible Lotus Family is "in decline" or something else like that.

    The answer was in her skandhas:

    rūpaskandhe bhaved vajrā gaurī vedanayāṃ smṛtā /
    saṃjñāyāṃ vāriyoginī saṃskāre vajraḍākinī //
    vijñānaskandharūpeṇa sthitā nairātmyayoginī /


    That arrangement is why we might as well say Samsara is Vajradakini.

    Vajradakini's other two major associations are the Fiery Crown center and Upeksa.

    Samsara is however usually conditioned by the lower chakra.

    This uses the same Nyasa as Vajra Tara has.

    Although this sadhana does incorporate Sumbha, it does not appear to mention any lower chakra. Again, the sixth spot in the Nyasa where it could have been mentioned is occupied by Nairatma--Manas. She does however deal with Root Sound at the beginning:

    bījaṃ mūlasvarādikaṃ

    and end:

    ādisvarasvabhāvā


    Although it is not the very end, it does seem like it was in the summing up after the whole ritual was cast:

    mahāmudrā sthitā nābhau mahāsukhakarā śubhā /
    tīkṣṇatvād agnirūpeṇa ruṣitā sā tu mātṛbhiḥ //

    Mahamudra has a place in the navel, and something is being ignited.

    Bhattacharya says she has two sadhanas, both evidently in the same form.

    In her major mandala is that Four Horse Face I was thinking about. She has Horse, Boar, Dog, and Lion Face Gatekeepers, which he says all have four faces, in NSP.
    Last edited by shaberon; 23rd April 2021 at 08:15.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Graha is also an equivalent of the seventh sin, Atma Graha, which is a way of saying the older Atta Drsti.
    Using the knower/known version of grahaka/grahya, that would be self oriented knowledge versus self-oriented view. What is apparently sinful is Atma, maybe that's why Nairatmya is important.

    Quote I certainly have an odd perception of time, like a growing egg. When I deal with people then of course I have awareness of what they are saying in the moment, but what I get is more like an astral image of them which "inflates" in Time until it displays their entire life cycle. I am not sensitive enough to really see this, but, I can get enough from it that makes it really easy to suss out a liar.
    At first glance that seems really interesting, but you can shut it off can't you? I might find it difficult knowing that much about everybody around me.

    Quote Yes. The self-generated Form of a deity is just a way to do Body Mandala. And so you are also going to have Vak and Citta. And you would increase each of them with Karma Mudra, Jnana Mudra, Dharma Mudra, and Maha Mudra. The goal is to get to the Mahamudra and whatever extremely subtle things it involves.
    Good to know. I worry about things like this, I told you I had had a block installed about it before. I have a lot of, not sure what the word is, 'pressures' around letting my barriers down, as in they might get hard to put back. A lot of my nights right now are a nearly seamless mixture of states that are usually separate, like sleep and wakefulness, dreaming and so forth. I'm not so sure I want to just embody all that without any boundaries.

    Quote Nairatma not only called herself an "I", she practically said she was human.
    This does not seem like a contradiction, depends on what she meant by "I".

    Quote Root Sound at the beginning:

    bījaṃ mūlasvarādikaṃ

    and end:

    ādisvarasvabhāvā


    Although it is not the very end, it does seem like it was in the summing up after the whole ritual was cast:

    mahāmudrā sthitā nābhau mahāsukhakarā śubhā /
    tīkṣṇatvād agnirūpeṇa ruṣitā sā tu mātṛbhiḥ //

    Mahamudra has a place in the navel, and something is being ignited.
    All of these follow a pattern, but I would guess it is because they are sort of connected by the Mahamudra thread or something.

    The above para about worries about getting pulled away by things are in part due to sort of (not sure where the boundaries are) accomplished the lucid dreaming thing last night (it's been moving more and more in that direction). I'm not sure where the boundaries are because I've read some people talk about lucid dreaming as being self-aware of the dream during the dream, and others talk about being able to control the dream. I did the former multiple times, but have no control over the dream progress. But the conversation during the dreams was about lucidity and about finding the luminous (the dream yoga has as a goal having all form dissolve into a luminous state). But what has been developing before, and is therefore better developed, is seamlessly moving back and forth, carrying the dream into shaking, and lately also practicing shaking inside a dream.

    This all sounds wonderful, but is kind of worrisome unless I have clear boundaries. I also slipped back and forth today while working on category theory. Granted that latter is slow going and I sometimes get sleepy working on it because of having to concentrate on every single word on the page slowly, but even so. That's why I seem to be all about, "Oh, that sounds wonderful but..." right now. I hope it isn't or doesn't seem too negative.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Using the knower/known version of grahaka/grahya, that would be self oriented knowledge versus self-oriented view. What is apparently sinful is Atma, maybe that's why Nairatmya is important.

    I might say it was the Graha or Drsti which is sin.

    I cannot remember if it was Maha Vyutpatti but somewhere one of the disciples keeps pressing Buddha through all the possible philosophies until saying "but is there really an Atma?" to which the answer is Buddha Smile.

    He certainly means any concept of atma is groundless.

    We are in a bit of a sensitive condition because the part of RGV which explains "Dhatu" is a copy of Bhagavad Gita that simply replaces the word "atma" with "dhatu". Because it is the same sentence with the same meaning, it is only a semantic shift.

    Now if we enter Formless Dhyanas into such a thing as Infinite Nothingness of Nothingness, well, we are just attempting to stabilize that kind of Samadhi and yet we still follow an injunction to go out in the world and do Karuna.

    Beings enter Realms which arise from an originally formless Dhatu, and, if we are going there in a Buddhist manner, as the Dhatu expands and makes or does whatever it does, this is done for the purpose of Increasing Bliss.

    If not, strong chance we get an immutable series of nightmares.


    Quote At first glance that seems really interesting, but you can shut it off can't you? I might find it difficult knowing that much about everybody around me.
    I suppose the astral seed is like a little nibble of Clairsentience.

    I never actually "know" anything, it is more like a taste, like soup that you don't really know all the ingredients, but a chunk of lard would make you raise your eyebrows.

    It doesn't stop in the Pravrtti.

    I can stop everything with Nirvrtti.

    Otherwise, no, it won't exactly stop, it is all like a dhatu or embryo of living light that reproduces itself according to whatever it was impressed with.

    Akin to what is called intuitive or empathic, etc.


    Quote I worry about things like this, I told you I had had a block installed about it before. I have a lot of, not sure what the word is, 'pressures' around letting my barriers down, as in they might get hard to put back. A lot of my nights right now are a nearly seamless mixture of states that are usually separate, like sleep and wakefulness, dreaming and so forth. I'm not so sure I want to just embody all that without any boundaries.

    Whether you should or should not do that, it is probably best not to go too fast.

    To an ordinary person who is "under" the dakinis' power rather than "at par" with it, then you can see why they might slide into something and lose control, which would get them laughed at, and it would all go downhill from there.

    I would turn Dharma Pravicaya on the barriers and mull about what they really are and whether or not to "do" something.


    Quote This does not seem like a contradiction, depends on what she meant by "I".

    Exactly.

    She features in NSP which is significant since it means Nispanna Yoga Vali, it means mandalas that have been relied upon to perform Completion Stage.

    NSP could use a little help in terms of framework or what the heck is that stuff in it. Kind of bare-bones. Now when we take Sadhanamala, we get an intro that turned out to be the entire Amoghasiddhi-strength Wrathful practice up to Vajra Fist. Then when the book begins its individual deity sadhanas, you get Sadaksari Mahavidya, who is really a Dharani basis for putting together everything about Six Families that you can.

    On one side, the sixth principle is Vajrasattva, and, on the other, Nairatma.

    And so NSP begins with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra, which is a fusion of Manjushri and Vajrasattva, which exhibits the sixth principle according to the following:

    Manjuvajra is an emanation of Akshobhya.

    Dharmadhatu Vajra is an emanation of Vajradhara or Akshobhya.

    So there we get the correct term, Dharmadhatu Vajra, for the mind goddess Bodhisattva, Mental Object, who in turn has a primordial or Mother level of herself, an Ishvari or Prajna, Mental Element.



    The rest of the contents of NSP are very similar to Vajravali:

    2. Guhyasamaja Akshobhya

    3. Samputa Vajrasattva

    4. Jnanadakini shows a reversed retinue. By accident and he doesn't say anything, but, we know they do this, and we can watch for the difference in things that are cast "standardly" or not. This is a not. This chick is insane. I would love to figure her out but it is too detailed. I like her anyway. The basics of her such as Nyasa are quite good.

    5. Hevajra

    6. Nairatma

    7. Vajramrita which calls to our attention that his tantra is considered critical, and yet we still have no source for it.

    8. Heruka

    9. Four Face Heruka (Mahamaya)

    10. Buddhakapala whose consort Citrasena is in the East in Vajra Family. But the rest are shifted--Vairocana South, Ratna West, Lotus North. This kind of mandala appears to be a fundamental alteration, i. e. water is in the west and so on.

    11. Vajrahumkara

    12. Four Face Sambara

    13. Buddhakapala with his consort casting in reverse. Here, where he has says we find Kalika (Kali), the closest I see is Kalaratri. It has two Sumalinis, Sundari and Vajra Sundari, and states that Citrasena's sire is Maha Vairocana. In other words, for this to even work, you would have to get him actually manifesting in Sambhogakaya first. The Families are in layers, not directions, the inmost being Ratna. Rupini is also used here, although she is in Lotus Family. Actually it was Nairatma he said was here that I cannot find. IWS does not even deal with the retinue, but says Buddhakapala displays Nine Moods. It has a corpse laying on its back. On the back is the identifier to Nairatma.

    14. Yogambara with Jnanadakini casting in reverse.

    15. Yamari

    16. Vajra Tara

    17. Marici

    18. Pancha Raksa which includes Kali and Kalaratri.

    19. Vajradhatu

    20. Jnanapada Manjuvajra with Cunda, etc.

    21. Dharmadhatu Vagisvara Manjughosha

    22. Sarvadurgati Parishodana

    23. Bhutadamara

    24. Pancha Daka

    25. Six Chakravartins which is comparable to Dakini Jala and, I believe, would be valid to "change forms as needed" into it.

    26. Kalachakra. He suggests it was composed to unite the Hindus and Buddhists against the Mlecchas. It is interesting but very weird, one of the first things you notice is Locana with Amoghasiddhi.


    Along with that, a few tidbits I noticed passing back over the typewritten Taranatha deities:


    Amritakundalin has a consort resembling himself, tramples Ganesh, but, mantricly, he is Maha Ganapati. It further states he is the essence of Vajrapani. Again the Maha Ganapati seems to indicate his Prana Shakti nature, and so he has transcended the "luck charm" or whatever basic Ganesh is supposed to be. He is featured the same way in Ganapati Hrdaya Dharani which I got from Dharani Samgraha.



    Buddhist Viswamata is crowned by Vajrasattva. She is Vajra Kandaki. Perhaps not quite a name, it says see kantaki--Theravada. Thorny fence or cactus hedge, possibly, but there is a Kantaki Sutra. Therein, Anuruddha says that the four satipatthanas should be attained both by the sekha and the asekha (the learner and the adept), and declares that he himself came to understand the thousand fold world system by developing these four. If we look at Satipatthana, it is similar to tantra, going through the Dhatus and Cemeteries until the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment near the end. Kandaki ia a river in the Buddhist Bon Kingdom of Lo; spelled Gandaki, this is a Ganges tributary flowing through Nepal which crosses Annapurna, so this is likely the meaning meant. It is actually called Kali Gandaki and starts from a glacier at the Mustang border. Gandaki has this name in Mahabharata.

    Sramana the dream goddess is attributed with knowledge of past and future lives.

    Maitreya is accompanied by Wrathful Aparajita, in other words these Bodhisattvas are shown with their wrathful reflex, and this is interesting because Aparajita's consort is Aparajita. So then Maitreya's consort is Aparajita, who is said to reveal the power of the Buddha, and witness Buddha initiation.

    Sarva Nivarana Viskambin is Amrita Bindu, which is also Ganapati.

    When with Vajrapani, Mamaki is quite similar in form to Nairatma.

    Cunda 163 is her twenty-six arm form, although it says nothing about Prithvi or Mula Mudra.

    Acala Canda Maharoshana's consort is called Tummo Gaj'e ma and Vajra Candi and has the Prajnas in five chakras including Tara = secret.

    Dhvajagrakeyura is Vetali, which tells us something about the two nerves, since they are "surmounted" by Banner and Parasol, and Dhvaja is Banner.


    This and NSP are tough documents since there is no way to link or search or copy particularly well.


    Quote All of these follow a pattern, but I would guess it is because they are sort of connected by the Mahamudra thread or something.

    Yes.

    Mahamudra is perhaps the best Sarma name for the attitude and practice in these tantras.

    On this particular pattern, I believe we have found the vowels expanding from Sarasvati--five, Kurukulla--eight, Nairatma--sixteen. If the first two are arguably part of Hinduism, etc., the same cannot be said of Nairatma.


    Saraha was the guru of Nagarjuna and the pioneer of Sahaja, Mahamudra, Vajrayana, Doha, and I suppose commentaries and sadhana for Buddhakapala, rather than being the author of the tantra.


    Saraha says:

    When the mind abides motionless, one is released from the toils of existence. // When you do not recognize the Supreme One in yourself, how should you gain this incomparable form [of the Supreme Lord]? I have taught that when error ceases, you know yourself for what you are. // …It is this supreme bliss that pours forth unceasingly as existence…. Know but the pure and perfect state! //

    “He who does not enjoy the senses purified, and practices only the Void [and neglects Compassion], is like a bird that flies up from a ship and then wheels round and lands back there again. // But do not be caught by attachment to the senses, Saraha says…. // Whatever pours forth from the mind, possesses the nature of the owner. Are waves different from water? Their nature, like that of space, is one and the same.” (70-2)

    “He who clings to the Void and neglects Compassion, does not reach the highest stage. But he who practices only Compassion [with the fixed idea of other sentient beings] does not gain release from the toils of existence. He, however, who is strong in practice of both, remains neither in saṃsāra nor nirvāṇa.”




    On this one, Buddhakapala does not have the most grandiose forms or difficult arrangements, it is all pretty simple. However, I would suggest it is complementary to Mahamaya. The Mahamaya by having Four Faces is like Sarvavid Vairocana, i. e. knowing all the directions at once, has done so in a fairly conceivable way by displaying spherical vision.

    This deity is doing something else, he is changing space to suit his whims.

    The common tactic we will find on almost any other mandala is a "swap", like Vairocana jumps out into the quadrant of whichever other one is being centered. Buddhakapala is doing something more than this, and more than a simple Family change, if we watch what happens to the Grounds on his mandalas. He moves four things around a single face. Like most Herukas, he is an Akshobhya emanation, and if so this may be unusual.


    1300s Kagyu Vajravali appears to be Vairocana-centered, i. e. lacking white:







    Ratna-centered 1500s Ngor:








    Karma-centered and rotated such that Ratna or Water is West although Lotus is not North:








    He would have to augment it again to match his sadhana. I do not think any other deity does this, at least not so blatantly and as early in the literature.



    Svadisthana Krama of Saraha is a relatively simple Vajrasattva devotion.

    The somewhat abrupt academic view is:

    “Without genitals there is no Mahamudra,” proclaimed the eighth century mahasiddha (literally “great achiever”) Saraha, and the Buddha Kapalatantra “presents passion as “a skilful means for transcending subject-object duality.”

    There are Five Chapters of Buddhakapala Tantra available from a Chinese-German effort, and at the end of the first page we see:

    mahāmudrā labhyate dhruvam||8||

    so I am pretty sure that pattern is in there.

    DSBC has a quick eight verse Nairatma Namostute wherein she is Surasundari and Visvamata of Nirvikalpa Svarupini. Correspondingly, the Swayambhu Purana Manjunatha Guhyesvari Stotram is the only other item in the Nairatma category.


    But there is some English from the Chinese translator.

    I am not going to clean this up, part of an as-is scan from this table so we can see the subjects of its fourteen chapters and read a bit about what it says.

    I have never seen this before but as I said, Lakshmi is important and she seems to be "one side", Kama Dhatu, probably the Seized or the Grasped, compared to all the other Dhatus enumerated in tantra which seem to be bundled opposite her. Ad so it is very close to calling her the Kama Loka as a whole.

    the herb for rasa-ayana groweth on the mountain in the moon
    10:6-7
    p. 55
    “Great Goddess! … What is the great herb
    p. 56
    … by which … a barren woman can have a son and the dead revive and never fall into death again?”
    10:10
    p. 58
    “the supreme marvelous herb … abides [in] … the vein {psychic channel} named Rasani”.
    10:18
    p. 61
    “At that time … [when] the [dark-skinned] lady is in menstruation, … visualize the Moon (candra) smeared with mercury … .
    {Is this menstruation aequivalent to Ren.uka's “water without a vessel”, or the moon to her “jar”

    This may be an allusion to Jamad-agni's becoming a star (BhP 9:16:24); as shall in the 8th manu-antara his son Paras`u-Rama (BhP 9:16:25).}

    Now … a son for a barren woman; just after

    the bathing [fn. 74 : “bathing by spyan ma / Locana and other (goddesses), cf. JV 10.40.”] [“accompanied”] by union (samyogen.a),
    {This is an allusion to the sexual water-sport of the Gandharva Citra-ratha of Mr.ttikavati with the Ap-saras goddesses, as observed by heroine Ren.uka (Mbh 3:116; BhP 9:16:3).}

    she will immediately become pregnant with a son.”
    {This may be an allusion to the birth of Viduratha


    “O Goddess … great wisdom (mahaprajn~ana)! Chief[ess] of the Yoginis!” [fn. 3 : “Chief among the twenty four Yoginis, cf. AP 12.2. In the Nis.pannayogavali, the names of the other twenty three Yoginis are … thus :
    Sumalini, Kapalini, Bhima, Durjaya; Rupini, Vijaya, Kamini, Kalini, Mahodadhi, Karin.i, Maran.i, Tarin.i, Bhima[-]dars`ana, Sudars`ana, Ajaya, S`ubha, Astaraki, Kala[-]ratri, Mahayas`a; Sundari, Vasun[-]dhara, Subhaga, Priya[-]dars`ana (NYA : 39-40).”]
    12:6-7 pp. 86-7 effects of laughter by the Yogini
    12:6-7
    p. 86
    “Yogini Citrasena laughs (hasita); and due to [this] boisterous laughter (at.t.at.t.ahasena),
    12:6-7
    p. 87
    All the Gods become frightened …; [and] all the Supreme Victors (jinavaraih.) [“are astonished …”]”.
    12:14-16 pp. 89-90 sexual love-making
    12:14
    p. 89
    “the very wise Yogin should moreover … drink … the [love-]playing rosary (kelimalini). [pp. 89-90, fn. 37 : “The Yogin should with his tongue drink the sexual fluid directly from the [p. 90] wisdom consort's vagina, cf. also JV 12.27.”]
    12:15
    p. 90
    [The] 16-year-old girl is endowed with … compassion …, [and] the Yogin who is solely devoted to the benefits of sentient beings should make love with her.
    12:16

    Being naked, tuft loosened, the wise one [vidvan] should chant the mantra of [has] and [hos]; [and] on that occasion … he should drink the [love-]play rosary (kelimalini), and afterwards he should start the love play (krid.a).”

    miraculous powers of distance-sight {This would be Caks.usi-vidya (the power of seeing all things in the 3 worlds), such as was taught Arjuna by a gandharva (EDP, s.v. “Citraratha”).}
    12:22-3
    “using the ring-finger … [“of his right hand” (AP 12:14)], [the Yogin] sees Buddhas as many as the [particles of] dust in the Three Thousand Worlds; he sees to the extent of eighty hundred thousand Yojanas downwards and upwards. … .
    12:24-5
    … using his fore-finger, [the Yogin] sees the movable and the immovable; and [he sees] Pretas, Bhutas and Pis`acas; and [hee sees] other Siddhas … . He sees to the extent of one thousand Kot.is of Yojanas upwards and downwards”.

    “a man – love playing (ratikrid.a) … – does not drop semen”
    buffalo

    Complete purification of mind
    101 to 110
    13:2-3 pp. 101-2 females who are appropriate for sexual intercourse with a man, in order therewith to acquire supernatural power
    13:2
    p. 101
    “Sister, niece, mother, daughter …; the wise one (prajn~a), if he wants [to achieve] the Great Seal (mahamudram), should thus make love [to them].
    13:3

    Wife of a D.omba [“drummer” (fn. 6)] (D.ombini), as well as Wife of a dancer

    p. 102
    (Nartaki), wife of a washerman (Dhorvin.i), wife of a Can.d.ala (Can.d.alini) and wife of a tanner (Carmakarin.i), are traditionally taught (smr.ta) [“as appropriate consorts” (AP 13:4-10)]. The intelligent one should thus make love [to them].”
    13:21-2 p. 108 erotic activity of the Maha-mudra ('Great Sigil') rite, for goddess Laks.mi {the divine wife of god Vis.n.u}
    13:21
    “Whatever love play, embracing and kissing (alingana[-]cumbanasya) as well, rubbing and squeezing, this … is called … the Great Seal. …
    13:22
    The five Yoginis … are bestower[esse]s of the Great Seal, Laks.mi of Buddha … . The Yogin should worship (pujayet) them”.


    functions of particular words in the dharan.i of goddess Kapalini
    its function
    word
    entring
    OM
    emerging
    HRIM
    reposing
    BUDDHA
    joy
    HUM
    disappearing
    KAPALINI
    rising
    AS
    14:18-19 pp. 116-7 declaration by Yogin to Yogini while they are eating together just prior to their ritual sexual intercourse
    “I am sunk in the mire of cyclic existence [samsara]; be my [p. 117] savior[ess], oh {O!}, beautiful … (sundari)! … I am connected with the covering subtle traces, oh, renowned (mahayas`a) and compassionate (kr.pavati) …! Please put them to rest …!”


    Citrasena is an Attahasa and we can see Vasundhara is a possible confusion with Vajrasundari as Bhattacharya wrote.

    In the text, it looks like Vajrapani is doing some asking and Citrasena does a good bit of the explaining.

    She is "supposed" to be red as in this modern print:






    but is "sometimes" blue as in this from IWS:






    and they say she has been found in white.

    Himalayan Art has retracted the statement that Viswasukha is a name of her, although it is still all over the pages. It came up erroneoulsy trying to back translate Tibetan.

    In this detail sketch it has the corpse face down, which is supposed to be an indicator of Vajravarahi:






    And, from Nepal, we can find her lower goddess has a Ghona and must be Vajravarahi:







    The type of Heruka used in Buddhakapala is:

    vajrahūṃkārasambhavam|

    which then does Garuda Yoga.


    Citrasena seems to occupy a brief dual Dharani with him where she is called Buddhakapalasyajna and Sumbhaya.

    There is also a Citra Karoti.

    atyantavarangana refers to a Yogini initiated by the Yogin himself.

    In the basic retinue, we can find Pitha goddess Saundini:

    the other seven Goddesses are Kamini, Patala[-]vasini, Saubhadra, S`aun.d.ini, Bhutini, Catur[-]bhuja and Akas`a[-]vasini (NYA : 31)]
    Last edited by shaberon; 24th April 2021 at 09:18.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Whether you should or should not do that, it is probably best not to go too fast.

    To an ordinary person who is "under" the dakinis' power rather than "at par" with it, then you can see why they might slide into something and lose control, which would get them laughed at, and it would all go downhill from there.
    I can, but the fact that they would get laughed at is not probably the worst of it, from what I was talking about. There are kind of two different kinds of losing control, one is a sort of blissful surrender and the other is a kind of terrifying coming apart. One can at root say perhaps that they are the same underlying surrender, but they aren't, and that isn't a percept, it's a deep feeling.

    At any rate, I am going to have to apologize and take at least a day off, for a kind of embarrassing reason. During my dreaming and shaking work last night, I tangled my foot in the sheets, and somehow broke my toe, and I cannot both keep it up in the air and type. So I do want to respond to the rest of your comment, but will have to wait a day or I hope not two before I can sit for more than a minute or two in front of the computer. The odd thing was I just continued on mixing up dreaming and shaking while the pain got worse. But I need to do RICE for now.

    So continuing for a little while,

    Quote I would turn Dharma Pravicaya on the barriers and mull about what they really are and whether or not to "do" something.
    What they really are is that they define things like waking, sleeping, dreaming, shaking, etc. When they come down it is with a consequent loss of self at each boundary point, and the loss of self may come with loss of a path back to self, as well.

    I think in its own way, it is similar to what you had described in ritual how you needed to go in and then return retracing exactly the steps you went in with, in reverse order, and how it would cause damage if you didn't.

    Quote On one side, the sixth principle is Vajrasattva, and, on the other, Nairatma.

    And so NSP begins with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra, which is a fusion of Manjushri and Vajrasattva, which exhibits the sixth principle according to the following:

    Manjuvajra is an emanation of Akshobhya.

    Dharmadhatu Vajra is an emanation of Vajradhara or Akshobhya.

    So there we get the correct term, Dharmadhatu Vajra, for the mind goddess Bodhisattva, Mental Object, who in turn has a primordial or Mother level of herself, an Ishvari or Prajna, Mental Element.
    I told you about the visualization of Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini, that was during a meditation, following the directions in Lama Yeshe's book, and that also included Vajrasattva and consort at the beginning.

    But in my shaking, there are only two male deities that have ever been part of it in identifications, Surya and Avalokitashavara.

    So if there were to be a primordial, it would either be without corporal form (could be symbol but not bodily form) or female, in my shaking.

    Quote 26. Kalachakra. He suggests it was composed to unite the Hindus and Buddhists against the Mlecchas. It is interesting but very weird, one of the first things you notice is Locana with Amoghasiddhi.
    So this is after the 11th century, then.

    Quote On this one, Buddhakapala does not have the most grandiose forms or difficult arrangements, it is all pretty simple. However, I would suggest it is complementary to Mahamaya. The Mahamaya by having Four Faces is like Sarvavid Vairocana, i. e. knowing all the directions at once, has done so in a fairly conceivable way by displaying spherical vision.

    This deity is doing something else, he is changing space to suit his whims.
    So these two things, knowing all directions, and creating all spaces (worlds) are listed as two separate acquired abilities of a bodhisattva in the Avatamsaka, along with a similar pair that does the same thing with time.

    Quote The somewhat abrupt academic view is:

    “Without genitals there is no Mahamudra,” proclaimed the eighth century mahasiddha (literally “great achiever”) Saraha, and the Buddha Kapalatantra “presents passion as “a skilful means for transcending subject-object duality.”
    That certainly seems to be the rule in shaking, the question is, what passion, what body, which genitals?
    Last edited by Old Student; 27th April 2021 at 02:56.

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