Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
My dictionary says cUDAmaNi is the jewel worn at that location.

Yes, and so I think the Cudabhikshuni mentioned in Swayambhu Purana means "nun with a top-knot", not that she is named for Cunda. But again we are only looking at one manuscript; I am not going to take her name too strenuously, the point being that Buddha had disciples inside Nepal.

Is this possibly a description of a Tummo generation? It sounds very similar.

Yes, except with Agni, it will probably go with the term Nirajan.

Sandhana as in Nadi Sandhana has the same meaning as yoga:

1. Holding together, uniting, joining.

This method, of course, is usually not as "natural" and is the recipient of numerous actual fires and the intercession of a guru...but an Inner Homa is fine.

Being in the form of mantras means saying each of the mantras and attributing them as you are saying them to the body parts in the paragraph?

Yes. When doing a Nyasa, the components should remain in place for that part of the meditation. Usually you are just putting a seed syllable somewhere. But with Vajrapani for instance, he adds a thing or two so it is something more.

Hrudaya is from the same root as Hrdaya? Meaning heart? Netra is a bright luminous shaft at the center of a lotus, but netra also means 'eye'?

Yes, in some accents you hear "hrud" and in others "hrid".

Netra is an eye and they may mean an eye in a lotus with a shaft of light.

Netra is associated with Vaushat, which is an intensification of Vashat (similar to vasikaran or vasikuru, vasat, through the power or influence of).

Although used in Buddhism it is rare and has only one instance in Sadhanamala where Kurukulla takes control of the Earth syllable:

oṃ kṣaḥ kurukulle hrīḥ namo vauṣaṭ svāhā - devyā
hṛdayamantraḥ /


It is a little strange since svaha is a redundancy; but I suppose it is like seeing "phat svaha" where phat can serve as the ending of a mantra.

Phat = Astra = Weapon is its meaning. So the group of words are traditional endings for mantras; "namah" is used in Hinduism *unless* an actual fire sacrifice is done, in which case it is svaha. Buddhist mantras probably never end on "namah" and if we are going to make this exclusion, we should be clear that svaha is not just a phrase for inner or mental fire sacrifice, it is the name of Agni's wife.

When spoken, svaha should carry your message on the vahnis of fire to the deity.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
Maybe I'm not making sense.

You are...sometimes I don't. Let's just say you mean risk related to "process" rather than the standard safety sign I was raising. In the case of slipping off the rails of the processes, yes, I can imagine that might be risky, but since I and most of us cannot do what you are doing, to me, it is conceptual if not out of the range of comprehension.

Do the 10 Mahavidyas correspond to body places? Chinnamasta appears to.

They might.

They moreso stand for the Planets and the incarnations of Vishnu.

Because they use Kali as the underlying fabric of all, they explain Tara in a certain relation to this, and so on, so they represent the development of all phenomena from void into manifestation.

Tripura Sundari is the solar plexus and very similar to what we call Nirmana Chakra. So I think she is the best example of it.

They are called nerves for a reason, though?

Hmmm...yes and no...it is the same word for a stem, reed, flute, etc.:

The root of nadi is nad, which in Sanskrit means, “to flow”. So nadis are the flowing currents of energy in the body. They are energy centers in the body so are actual physical organs. The origin point of the nadis is called the medhra and is located between muladhara and manipura charkas.

The physical termination point of ida nadi is said to be the left nostril and the pingala nadi is the right.

Nāḍī (नाडी, “nerves”)

Nāḍī (नाडी, “subtle channel”)

Nāḍī (नाडी) denotes a ‘vein’ or ‘artery’ in the human body in the Atharvaveda

nāḍī (नाडी).—f (S) Any tubular organ of the body, an artery, a vein, an intestine &c.


If it is a nerve, it is physical, and just responds to physical things. If it is subtle, it can be affected by the mind and in consequence affect the physical nerve.

Then if I say Lalana and Rasana:

Rasanā (रसना).—name of an artery, vein, or passage-way (nāḍī) in the body: Sādhanamālā 448.11 ff.; nāḍyo lalanā-rasanāvadhū- tayaḥ 11; rasanopāyena saṃsthitā 13; rasanā raktapra- vāhinī 15.

Is the name of it, having its own meaning, such as "to taste". So then if I call them Taster and Player am I calling them nerves any more?

I generally think of them as Motor and Sensory systems (Grasper and Grasped).

I cannot say I have perceived them in individual detail but I can say external currents can get sucked into them and be balanced or not. That is what Vajra Muttering or Pranayama is for.

Even though we can dance around it a bit, yes, I would still say it definitely involves a physical nerve experience, although the point is Noumenal, not just the energy of the system.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
The Klim syllable was in that thangka you posted the last time with Chinnamasta (directly above on this page).

Hindu version of her.

I like them all, I have just never seen anyone attempt to explain some of the obvious "scrubs" of major components.

Now if our tantra is 80% similar to Bhairava tantra, we can say a major part of the difference is the technique. But the seed is not the technique. If we keep Srim = Laksmi, what happened to Klim?

I don't know but it is ultra gone for something abundantly common.

Thanks for this explanation. I have trouble understanding some of these systems, because I associate the astral plane with astral projection, which was for me just a going somewhere out of my body and looking back at it, the astral body I was in at that point, if that's what it was, was pretty much a copy of me. The clear body in my shaking is nothing like that. He said he had experienced that, but didn't elaborate on what it looked like. So I wasn't sure.

Since "either kind" of astral body would look like you, then it is hard to say. The Mayavi Rupa can still interact with the physical world, but, can cross it at the speed of light. The Linga Sharira which was called astral body in original Theosophy would be limited to walking or maybe drifting around. It can, perhaps, get off the ground, but probably not fly all that well. It decays with the physical body, so, if one is not cremated, it may roam around the grave until all the flesh is disintegrated.

Original Theosophy said there are only three "bodies", physical, astral, and Mayavi Rupa. Many other systems make it seem like each sheath or "kosha" is an independent body. But here we see there is no such thing as a Mental Body; Koothoomi said the "higher self" is not a body, is a breath. In checking what we get "above" Akanistha, the result is the Formless Dhyanas.

If the clear body is unable to extract itself, then, it may be Prana Kosha or it may be ethereal "sub-planes" of the physical body.

The similar thing that most of us perceive is slightly larger than our physical body and probably is Linga Sharira.



Another thought on the Moon is its early role in Puranas, and these, generally, as "creation myths" are more closely related to re-emergence after experiencing Voidness.

Buddhism is considered non-theistic in terms of a creator being as explained in most religions. This kind of function is handled by Brahma and Kasyapa, but Buddhism is a practice which focuses on the moment-to-moment collative process whereby phenomena are spewed out of the Dharmadhatu and they become experiences.

And so the Puranas use for example Wars in Heaven to indicate the mixings and evolutions of forces as they arise from nothingness into manifestation. After a war there is a new arrangement and the forces "descend" into a "less spiritual" veil of matter. There is such an occurrence after Varuni is Churned.

But more primordial than that is when Tara leaves Jupiter (her husband) for the Moon.

Jupiter is the principle of natural order or Rta, something like a "mini-sun", which is the relevant law for Devas and I believe classed as Yoga Maya, and also represents something more like Kriya or rather Tirtha or "obediently following rules" without getting the inner sense of things.

More like an exoteric, formal relationship to a typical creator.

Tara went instead to Moon--Soma, being an indication that some of the esoteric experience she reveals is in this domain. The product of their union was Mercury--Budha. And the Yellow--Earth color is shared with Mercury, and we have also found in the inner sense what this is and how it pertains to Rasa and Ekarasa. At the door, so to speak, is Nagarjuna.

This energy could be described as "bottled" into Varuni in the further stage of production.

So then in the tantras, if you take Varuni, then you are headed to a Yellow Vairocani, and eventually The Vessel or Bharati intended for the experience of Mercury, in the reverse or dissolution.

Correspondingly, Jupiter is honored or respected but then the human Dharma according to Lakshmi is Mahamaya and of course she is more like Venus.

Since Buddhist Tara's name from a prior cosmos was Jnana Chandra--Wisdom Moon, and we find Lakshmi critically unfolded at a high level in our practices, this approach seems sound.

[Old Student]

Yes. When doing a Nyasa, the components should remain in place for that part of the meditation. Usually you are just putting a seed syllable somewhere. But with Vajrapani for instance, he adds a thing or two so it is something more.

Hrudaya is from the same root as Hrdaya? Meaning heart? Netra is a bright luminous shaft at the center of a lotus, but netra also means 'eye'?

Yes, in some accents you hear "hrud" and in others "hrid".

Netra is an eye and they may mean an eye in a lotus with a shaft of light.

This is interesting, an eye in a lotus with a shaft of light. It is almost like the inverse of putting syllables or visualizations at points in the body, it is putting points in the body at the things in the mantra.

Buddhist mantras probably never end on "namah" and if we are going to make this exclusion, we should be clear that svaha is not just a phrase for inner or mental fire sacrifice, it is the name of Agni's wife.

When spoken, svaha should carry your message on the vahnis of fire to the deity.

Quite a few chants in both Buddhist and Hindu traditions begin with, "Om namo," and end with "svaha". In fact, little kids in India imitate priests by going, "Om namo namo namo namo svaha!" In Japan, my recollection is that many drop the "Om" and just begin with "namo". There is a special use of characters for it (same characters in both Chinese and Japanese "南無" which would ostensibly be pronounced "nan wu" in Mandarin and mean "south nothing" but instead is pronounced "namo" and means "namo". It's the same two characters in Japanese.

[Old Student]

You are...sometimes I don't. Let's just say you mean risk related to "process" rather than the standard safety sign I was raising. In the case of slipping off the rails of the processes, yes, I can imagine that might be risky, but since I and most of us cannot do what you are doing, to me, it is conceptual if not out of the range of comprehension.

A new thing happened over the night before last and last night: The night before, I was having breathing problems, and I've explained before that I try to split a drop of bliss at my heart level or so and let one part drift down and become a bigger ball of bliss and the other drift up and become nausea. I couldn't do it but I could get nausea started in my throat and I could get bliss started in my belly, so I just kind of 'will'-ed them to be connected to end the problem, and it worked. So then last night I couldn't get the third dream yoga exercise to work (the one at the heart with the black HUNG), because I couldn't go all the way to sleep, so somehow I did the same 'will' thing and forced myself to be dreaming while still awake, which produced a perfectly portable and usable dream, albeit kind of strange. The form of 'will' is similar to will in Taijiquan, (yi, 意) but also quite different.

They more so stand for the Planets and the incarnations of Vishnu.

Because they use Kali as the underlying fabric of all, they explain Tara in a certain relation to this, and so on, so they represent the development of all phenomena from void into manifestation.

Tripura Sundari is the solar plexus and very similar to what we call Nirmana Chakra. So I think she is the best example of it.

So is Tara similar to Kali or more properly to Durga? She is a sort of always around deity the way Durga is, Durga is often just called 'Devi', it seems like Tara is a similar universal female.

Nāḍī (नाडी, “nerves”)

Nāḍī (नाडी, “subtle channel”)

Nāḍī (नाडी) denotes a ‘vein’ or ‘artery’ in the human body in the Atharvaveda

nāḍī (नाडी).—f (S) Any tubular organ of the body, an artery, a vein, an intestine &c.
[...]
Even though we can dance around it a bit, yes, I would still say it definitely involves a physical nerve experience, although the point is Noumenal, not just the energy of the system.

Okay, so I've said some of this before, but time to spell it all out. I think the actually are nerves, and there are two bodies before getting to the spiritual -- the body of inspection and the body of introspection. Inspection (really dissection on cadavers) gives the nerves and so forth, introspection (meditation and going within) gives the nadi like you say. Perhaps this is what you are labeling phenomenal and noumenal, I'm not sure.

The original Buddhists, and indeed up past people like Niguma and Naropa by some, did two meditation on bliss and meditation on decay, the latter in the charnel grounds. They were also competing in the world of medicine -- that is known from the proclamations on Asoka's pillars.

So careful lining up of the introspective energies and the inspective nerves and vessels. The spine has two long jointed nerves that run down either side, ending near the waist (lumbar vertebrae) which are the sympathetic ganglia (they do 'fight or flight') and then there are two big nerves that come down from the neck and curve back and forth across the inside of the torso, which are the parasympathetic vagus nerves (they do 'feed and breed'). Then below the waist (where the lumbar vertebrae join the sacrum) there is another set that come out of the eight holes in the sacrum, the splanchnic nerves which form a net through the pelvis and do both sympathetic and parasympathetic.

So my guess at one point which has only strengthened over time is that what is now the body of thought called yoga was originally the development of control over all of this -- control gained by accessing things by the introspective version and controlling the inspective version. That is, there is an internal (tantric/yogic) way to awaken the nerves themselves to 'consciousness' which looks like all the things we do, but it really is awakening these physical nerves which are capable of much more than what they do in a non-practicing person.

What a fully awakened physical body is capable of isn't a known thing, and the difference between physical and spiritual falls away when extra physical capabilities created by practicing the spiritual are harnessed to complete the circle and enhance spiritual capabilities.

The pictures if you took a drawing of a human body with only the big nerves drawn in would show chakras, the winding back and forth, and the two vertical channels along the main one.

[Old Student]

If we keep Srim = Laksmi, what happened to Klim?

I don't know but it is ultra gone for something abundantly common.

That is strange.

Original Theosophy said there are only three "bodies", physical, astral, and Mayavi Rupa. Many other systems make it seem like each sheath or "kosha" is an independent body. But here we see there is no such thing as a Mental Body; Koothoomi said the "higher self" is not a body, is a breath. In checking what we get "above" Akanistha, the result is the Formless Dhyanas.

If the clear body is unable to extract itself, then, it may be Prana Kosha or it may be ethereal "sub-planes" of the physical body.

The 'astral' one I did when young was just like my physical body and my perceived sensation was that I got up and walked to the window before turning and seeing my body sleeping in the bed.

My clear body does not leave my body while I am aware of both. If I go "completely clear body" I have no physical, 'muscle' memory of my physical body during that time and have no idea how I would tell where they were w/resp to each other.

The bodies I press out into the shaman bodies are definitely not inside my physical body, they're scattered all over the world. The animal bodies are a transformation, so I cannot perceive both my physical body and one of those at the same time at all.

There may be others, but all these might be a matter of function and not really different. I have no idea about the things that go back and forth between the various worlds-- dream, shaking, etc. those are all extremely new to me. The vision bodies, such as they are, are often not mine, or I'm not sure if I'm me while they are present.

But at least all the things from Theosophy etc. are useful to try to figure out what to call things when trying to compare experiences with others.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
This is interesting, an eye in a lotus with a shaft of light. It is almost like the inverse of putting syllables or visualizations at points in the body, it is putting points in the body at the things in the mantra.

We may have a Kamala Locana or something like that, I cannot recall.


If I start wondering about the "place" of a pitha like in the second comment, the one that comes to mind is Lankesvari of the eyes, since her name would mean Ishvari of Lanka.

In Varahi tantra it uses four families and she is under Locana; in Vajradaka tantra, there are six families and she is under Samcalani.

Lanka generally means "island", and, one specifically, which, considering there used to be Adam's Bridge to India, has the following interesting information:


Laṅkā (लङ्का).—The hypothetical place on the equator where the meridian of Ujjain intersects it, i.e., place with 0° longitude and 0° latitude.

[according to] to some accounts Lanka was much larger than the island of Ceylon is at present, or was even distinct from it, the first meridian of longitude which passed through Ujjayinī being supposed to pass through Lanka


But if her "place" is really "the pitha", could she be the Ishvari of Lanka other than an island?


2) An unchaste woman, a prostitute, harlot.

Laṅka (लङ्क).—A lover, paramour.

3. The name of a Śākinī, or evil spirit.

of a Yoginī, [Hemādri’s Caturvarga-cintāmaṇi]


Maybe.

Well, then, where is the pitha?

Devikoṭa (देविकोट).—Sacred to Lalitā-pīṭham.*

* Brahmāṇḍa-purāṇa IV. 44. 96.

Devīkoṭa (देवीकोट) or Devakoṭa (also Diw-kot) refers to the ancient headquarters of Koṭivarṣa: a place-name classified as a viṣaya and mentioned in the Gupta inscriptions.

Koṭivarṣa (कोटिवर्ष) or Koṭīvarṣa (कोटीवर्ष).—Name of the capital of the demon-chief Bāṇa.

The Prakrit lexicon Pāia-sadda-mahaṇṇavo describes Koṭivarṣa as the capital of Lāṭa country. The name is known to the Jain Prajñāpanā in which it is placed in Lāḍha or Lāṭa. Hemacandra (Abhidānacintāmaṇi 390) says that Koṭivarṣa, Bāṇapura, Devīkoṭa, Umāvana and Śoṇitapura are identical. Puruṣottama (Trikāṇḍaśeṣa 32) agrees with Hemacandra with the only difference that he mentions Uṣāvana in place of Umāvana.

Lāṭa is the ancient name of Southern Gujarāt.

Koṭivarṣa (कोटिवर्ष) or Koṭivarṣaviṣaya is the name of an ancient city active during the rule of the Gupta empire. Koṭivarṣa-vīthī is present Bangarh in the Bogra district of Bengal.

Or:

Koṭivarṣa (कोटिवर्ष).—n. (-rṣa) The name of a city, Vanapuri or Devikote, on the Koromandel coast.

which is the southeastern coast adjacent to Lanka.

Devikota and Caritra are really the hotbed of schism in the "relocation" of Indian pithas to Tibetan locations. When the original is mentioned, it is held to be at the south coast around Kanci. So probably the last interpretation is accurate:

south-east of Chidambaram

about as close to Lanka as you can get without actually being there.

Vajrapani's addenda about Lankesvari suggests that as many "Purnamasas" as there are, these devis are related to other asterisms and "times" such as February-March:

phālgunāmā-vasyāṁ laṅkeśvarīṁ vajraprabham ākṛṣtyartham|

Vajraprabha is the liver and so it is believed there must be a nadi from the eyes which passes through the heart. But it is stated that the husband of Eyes is Subtle Light.

Her pasttime is wrking with bell metal:

laṅkeśvarī kaṁsakāri|

Her associate is Forest Dog (wolf):

laṅkeśvarī araṇyaśvānī|

Her bird association is indecipherable to me:

laṅkeśvarī pājī|

She is in Citta Cakra:

nairṛtyāre devīkoṭe cakṣurdvaye laṅkeśvarīvajraprabham|


And on that last point, there are two eyes, so, some contend that two pitha locations would be appropriate.

Well if we ask where her eyes really went:

Shivaharkaray: Shakti Mahisha-Mardini, Body part--Eyes

This Shakti Peeth is situated near the Parkai Railway Station, near Karachi in Pakistan. Goddess Sati's eyes fell here and she is worshipped as Mahisha-Mardini.

or:

A mystical shrine on the Birbhum District of West Bengal, Tarapith is an ancient temple dedicated to one of the 12 incarnations of Goddess Kali called Tara. It is said that the eye ball (tara) of Sati dropped here.


and she had a third eye anyway.



Devikota is also used in Shakta in a mantral construction similar to the Tri-kaya and Asta Smasana right before specifically mentioning Eight Vasus.


Where did my Vajra Eyes go? Almost to Lanka, but they may not be where I dropped them...

In fact, little kids in India imitate priests by going, "Om namo namo namo namo svaha!"

Priceless.

In Japan, my recollection is that many drop the "Om" and just begin with "namo".

It is not necessarily dropped, it is not present in NSB or NSV mantras.

Yes, Buddhism begins a lot of things with Namo or Namah, but it is rarely if ever an ending, certainly not compared to Phat.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
so somehow I did the same 'will' thing and forced myself to be dreaming while still awake, which produced a perfectly portable and usable dream, albeit kind of strange.

It is conceivable to me, at least.

I get "intersections" like that, but not to the same degree.

I was reading a commentary on Vajrapani's "Adhikara" and related terms and now I cannot find it and cannot be sure that was not a dream.

So is Tara similar to Kali or more properly to Durga? She is a sort of always around deity the way Durga is, Durga is often just called 'Devi', it seems like Tara is a similar universal female.

Closer to Durga.

Safe transport over the quagmire of samsara.

Following the analogies, if I call her consort of Amoghasiddhi (Shiva), that would be like calling her Uma--Parvati--Durga.

Yes, I take her as the overall divinity whereas even someone like Ekajati is really Tara in Ekajati Amnaya.

Kali, as Guhyakali, could be said to be incorporated into Guhyeshvari. Even if she is the ultimate Mystery Lady by name, it is another way of Tara.

Sticking Tara's name to something directly usually means it has a peaceful bodhisattva appearance but I would think of her as Female Buddha or Prajna or Adi Prajna that splits into other names and forms.

Inspection (really dissection on cadavers) gives the nerves and so forth, introspection (meditation and going within) gives the nadi like you say. Perhaps this is what you are labeling phenomenal and noumenal, I'm not sure.

Coarse (sthula) and subtle (suksma).

That is, there is an internal (tantric/yogic) way to awaken the nerves themselves to 'consciousness' which looks like all the things we do, but it really is awakening these physical nerves which are capable of much more than what they do in a non-practicing person.

Agreed.

What I mean by "Noumenal" is more like this:

If you go to Buddhism, it is going to teach you Bodhi Mind and confess Vajrasattva 100,000 times. Only then might it say something basic about the subtle body. The physiological aspect of it is always constrained and that is why the term Prajna is preferred over Shakti. If we are not ready to do Karuna it will be shoved down our throat until we repent.

I can do a laundry list of other things that can and possibly will start doing something to my subtle body today.

We say we are dealing with something that is not really of this world at all. In the Pali texts, Mano Indriya was not said to be physical. Man does not participate directly in the outpouring of the Absolute except in the moments of deepest samadhi (which is my understanding of Shiva).

This can and must operate through the body at times, but, it is not of it. When the Pitha System is called Vajra Kaya and this is supposed to become "Deathless", then the subtle body and mind are simply unaffected by the various collapses that usually ensue after death. So whatever was developed in and through the nadis in life is like the "river" that will be followed afterwards.

So at a more subtle level, the thing that is the same in meditation or dreams, is the same in life or death.

A Pratyeka Buddha is said to have followed the Path of the Eye whereas an Anuttara Samyak Sambuddha has followed the Path of Heart.

We are value-emphasizing the Bodhisattva ideal, whereas a great deal of siddhis can be accomplished by rigorous physical discipline alone.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
That is strange.

Yes, I have my ideas about how "magnetism" is split into Hook (attraction) and Chain (locking) and that it can be shown that Hook and Noose are a basic, common set of items for deities such as Ganapati, but then the Chain is like second-tier and stronger and Lotus Family, where it should be, shows no development of it.

If the same dakinis remain accompanying you, then you have Chain.

I get the feeling that since most people cannot achieve this very quickly, it is a way of discarding assumptions that just saying Klim might automatically complete the task. In this sense it would be a prod that Buddhist techniques are different than those found in Hindu tantras.

It must have been intentionally ignored.

The bodies I press out into the shaman bodies are definitely not inside my physical body, they're scattered all over the world. The animal bodies are a transformation, so I cannot perceive both my physical body and one of those at the same time at all.

In my view that would have to be Mayavi Rupa.

Some believe if you were to see it with your physical eyes you would die.

In the Mayavi, you could go to the Gobi Desert, or, you could go into the memories of it by someone you don't know. It does not normally do these things because a person lacks the capacity. But it is plastic enough for you to become, or merge into, an animal, or anything else.

I would think if you looked like a hawk, someone who knows you, would know it was you.

In reverse, the Mahatmas put a Mayavi on their house near Bombay, so you could only get there if you were invited, no one else could see it.

Still the same thing whether experienced from physical meditative consciousness, or dream, or both flashed back and forth like movie frames. I am unaware of the latter from any of the sources. But again the sources are like "how-to" manuals, and my guess is that any experiences such as yours are ear-whispered and not written into commentaries.

[Old Student]

Lanka generally means "island", and, one specifically, which, considering there used to be Adam's Bridge to India, has the following interesting information:


Laṅkā (लङ्का).—The hypothetical place on the equator where the meridian of Ujjain intersects it, i.e., place with 0° longitude and 0° latitude.

[according to] to some accounts Lanka was much larger than the island of Ceylon is at present, or was even distinct from it, the first meridian of longitude which passed through Ujjayinī being supposed to pass through Lanka


But if her "place" is really "the pitha", could she be the Ishvari of Lanka other than an island?

Lanka is famous from the Ramayana, my impression was that most people put it in modern day Sri Lanka or generally that direction. My impression also was that the word 'dvipa' is used for island, including Lanka dvipa, but also for jambudvipa which is Asia but is it as a big island. Suvarnadvipa is Indonesia.

Her bird association is indecipherable to me:

laṅkeśvarī pājī|

My dictionary says 'falcon'.

Yes, Buddhism begins a lot of things with Namo or Namah, but it is rarely if ever an ending, certainly not compared to Phat.

My impression was it was always near the beginning.

Kanzeon namo butsu...

which is the same as what you said.

[Old Student]

It is conceivable to me, at least.

I get "intersections" like that, but not to the same degree.

I am on chapter thirty-something in the Avatamsaka, there was one several chapters ago on concentrations. It is Cleary and coming from the Chinese, I know that one document of yours translated concentration and 定 and samadhi all the same. But they said there were millions of them and they enabled one to see different things. I am beginning to think of it that way, it's a particular mental state that makes it happen.

Closer to Durga.

Safe transport over the quagmire of samsara.

Following the analogies, if I call her consort of Amoghasiddhi (Shiva), that would be like calling her Uma--Parvati--Durga.

Yes, I take her as the overall divinity whereas even someone like Ekajati is really Tara in Ekajati Amnaya.

Kali, as Guhyakali, could be said to be incorporated into Guhyeshvari. Even if she is the ultimate Mystery Lady by name, it is another way of Tara.

Makes sense.

This can and must operate through the body at times, but, it is not of it. When the Pitha System is called Vajra Kaya and this is supposed to become "Deathless", then the subtle body and mind are simply unaffected by the various collapses that usually ensue after death. So whatever was developed in and through the nadis in life is like the "river" that will be followed afterwards.

So at a more subtle level, the thing that is the same in meditation or dreams, is the same in life or death.

That sounds a bit more like the concentrations thing. I need to think this over.

[Old Student]

In my view that would have to be Mayavi Rupa.

Some believe if you were to see it with your physical eyes you would die.

That seems scary.

In the Mayavi, you could go to the Gobi Desert, or, you could go into the memories of it by someone you don't know. It does not normally do these things because a person lacks the capacity. But it is plastic enough for you to become, or merge into, an animal, or anything else.

I would think if you looked like a hawk, someone who knows you, would know it was you.

I don't have such a witness. I do know that I am 'felt' or heard or something by the birds outside sometimes.

Still the same thing whether experienced from physical meditative consciousness, or dream, or both flashed back and forth like movie frames. I am unaware of the latter from any of the sources. But again the sources are like "how-to" manuals, and my guess is that any experiences such as yours are ear-whispered and not written into commentaries.

And I'm beginning to think there is a reason a how-to is written that way. Some things require my body to be in a particular position, I might be able to do it after two years of shaking from a variety of poses, but a lot of times the pose that does something like pull my spine straight to make something flow, if one were going to teach it to someone and wanted it to succeed, the pose really is the one they teach, with legs folded, etc.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
Lanka is famous from the Ramayana, my impression was that most people put it in modern day Sri Lanka or generally that direction. My impression also was that the word 'dvipa' is used for island, including Lanka dvipa, but also for jambudvipa which is Asia but is it as a big island. Suvarnadvipa is Indonesia.

When the Dvipa is a Continent, it means a Container, for those beings with the ability to take birth there.

I cannot remember if Vajrapani had placed these devis all in the same form. But as it turns out, there is nothing obscure, Lankeswari is the patron deity of Sonepur, Paschima Lanka.

A government paper gives some history of her:

Lankeswari is stated by tradition to be the
protectress of mythical city Lanka ruled by Ravan
referred to as Lankini or Lankadevi. Similarly
Lankeswari was also the presiding deity in the
Sonpur region during the reign of
Chhindakanagas. After defeating the Soma rulers,
Chhindakanagas installed the
Telgu Chodas as local ruling
chief there. Even today
Lankeswari is worshipped in
the form of a flat rocky islet in
the bed of Mahanadi and a
whirlpool of Mahanadi is
known as Lankeswari Darha.


...Lankeswari is four armed.
She sits in Bajraparyanka posture on a lotus
throne. She holds Sankha and Chakra in her
upper left and right hands respectively and her
lower right hand having Varada Mudra and left
hand inAbhaya Mudra with spread out tongue.
The image is carved in black chlorite stone
measuring 32" by 16". Such iconic feature
synchronizing Kali with Vishnu is unique and only
of its kind in the State of Orissa. The deity is
worshipped with Vanadurga Vija Mantra.

[Mahattari = Varendra Vana Iccha, i. e. Vana Durga is a particular practice or lineage I believe]

The dispute about Devikota is significant to the general fact of three sacred mountains in Tibet, Kailas, Lapchi, and Tsari. One of the most detailed accounts of it is in The Ravines of Tsari. It is at the border to Arunchal Pradesh. Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra are the first ones considered to have accessed it, and it has remained important to for instance the founder of Drikung who had dreams about it.

They consider the mountains to be Chakrasamvara mandala.

They are part of the Twenty-four Pithas.

Heruka blessed the Lingam of each Pitha with a mandala of the sixty-two Chakrasamvara deities.

The sixty-two are Chakrasamvara and his consort, and his retinue: the twenty-four male and twenty-four female Bodhisattvas, and the twelve goddesses.

The last sounds vague but is the Tenma, the Four She Maras, the Four Yakshis (Turquoise Lamp, Mari Rabjam, etc.], and the Four Medicine Ladies, these last appearing to be the class we usually spell Mamo.

Tenma are entirely local.

Well, Tibet is not said to be the source of Chakrasamvara, but the transmission of it.

In their case they do have the ability to say, well, Padmasambhava importantly, and some others, tamed and oath-bound these beings, so perhaps it is possible to expand the original and make a new Eyes Pitha even though it does not seem to concern Sati or her personal parts.

I don't, there aren't any demonic stomping grounds converted to Dharma practice anywhere near here. Therefor I am not in a position to innovate what the Pitha may be.

That also persuades me that I am not in a position to say where Lankesvari is. Evidently, she was and still is in West Lanka, and that is whom was originally given as governess of the two eyes. Why that may or may not have anything to do with attributions of where Sati's eyes went, I am not sure.

I am also pretty sure it would be over-reach for us to try digging into deities that are strictly local and have no bearing to us, such as the Tenma, or Tseringma. They are representatives of classes. That is why I tend to fall back to the Sanskrit, same as with the Tara system that is evident in Sadhanamala.

My dictionary says 'falcon'.

Then that is what we will go by.

My impression was it was always near the beginning.

Kanzeon namo butsu...

which is the same as what you said.

The Eight Mothers' Circle brought up recently is an exception, it uses Namostu'te--which, without further qualifications a single word, would be understood as Mahalakshmi Stotram. I am not yet sure if there is anything about that Circle which is not a Hindu import, with maybe one sentence added in using "sarvabuddhanam". There are almost a hundred each of Namos and Namahs in Sadhanamala as headers. and you can actually find one at the end of a Vajratiksna mantra, so as an ending it may not be thoroughly sanitized, but it is barely there.

Refuge Vow done with Namo sounds rather strange to me, but, some of them do it that way.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
coming from the Chinese, I know that one document of yours translated concentration and 定 and samadhi all the same. But they said there were millions of them and they enabled one to see different things. I am beginning to think of it that way, it's a particular mental state that makes it happen.


That sounds a bit more like the concentrations thing. I need to think this over.

Yes, exactly.

We can see three or four degrees of Samadhi in the Chakrasamvara Pithas, and, there are four important ones in Dharma Samgraha.

Four Concentrations is also defined in the Dharma-saṃgraha (section 136):

Heroic march (śūraṅgama),
Sky-jewel (gagaṇa-gañja),
Pure light (vimala-prabha),
Lion’s sport (siṃha-vikrīḍita).

Now even the Dharma Samgraha itself has a different Four Concentrations in another area, and, they have posted it in a one-page pdf so we can sort through it better.

The reason this one is important is since it begins with the first Mantra Yana Sutra, that of Parasol.

The others are explained in the tantras, i. e. Gagana Ganja is generally Samadhi of Entry, via Void Gnosis, and so on from there and the last class being like an extension of Lion's Roar of Queen Srimala Devi which is Ekayana, Refuge of One.

The mental state is the Noumenal factor which results in corresponding Phenomena.

Samadhis and Mandalas are unlimited. Nevertheless, with respect to our planet, it could be said that a quantifiable number have been established here by Buddha and others and that is what we rely on. I say this due to Sraddha or Conviction that any legitimate teacher of Sambhogakaya has said something valid, and that it is impossible to deviate very far from what has been said. After all, the Spiritual Community is continuous to the Akanistha. If I am there, I will find them; no one else is there.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
Some believe if you were to see it with your physical eyes you would die.
That seems scary.

I am not sure how you really test that.

I am not trying to.

I don't have such a witness. I do know that I am 'felt' or heard or something by the birds outside sometimes.

Very interesting.

The fact that these devis are granted Animals and then are entirely re-iterated as Birds tells us something.

Bird is very special in both its symbolic forms and the feathered friends outdoors.

Who is Controlling Food to begin samadhi? Crow.

The most beneficial magical creature is usually held to be Garuda.

I can infinitely assert the Naga Kingdom all I want and that Garuda is still poignant to whatever happens in Time.

Time, as Kali, is also the name of the consonants, which are Bodies for the Consciousness of the Vowels.

And I'm beginning to think there is a reason a how-to is written that way. Some things require my body to be in a particular position, I might be able to do it after two years of shaking from a variety of poses, but a lot of times the pose that does something like pull my spine straight to make something flow, if one were going to teach it to someone and wanted it to succeed, the pose really is the one they teach, with legs folded, etc.

It is a bit odd, your descriptions sounded like "spontaneous" asanas coming from an in-the-moment need.

I can conceive of it, but do not really have a similar experience.

I have more or less come under the instructions of Yoga Tantra of the Jnanapada lineage.

It is something like a point of not actually using Vajravarahi and Cinnamasta, but, building the engine under their hood very thoroughly and meticulously.

The truth is that anyone, even a beginner, might go into the Mirror Wisdom and perceive things much more deeply than is currently being taught. But again, it is more like we are honing the processes of going in and coming out. We enhance the navigation and stay longer. I really did not get this when I was younger. It was more the simple fact that there could be an energetic peak that enthralled me. And so yes, it is much like that is now "self-sealed" and inaccessible while I really grind on the basics.




I was thinking about Hook Rays recently in somewhat of an uplifting sense, because this is part of semi-advanced sadhanas and so it is familiar to us. But it could be uplifting because if thought of in reverse, if we are having difficulties, nevertheless we must be on someone's Hook Rays if Bodhisattvas and advanced practitioners are constantly sending them to all beings.

These are different from "The Rays", which are subsumed in the creatures pulling Marici's (or other similar) chariots. Thos have to do with the Sun, and so. i. e. Marut or Wind "digging holes in space" as the planes or veils of matter, which are "entered" by seven principles of Vishnu and Agni.

And so Vajradaka Tantra does not yet have the most elaborate, detailed instructions about Pithas and so on, but it gets very close and has probably the most direct collusion of tantric principles to the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment.

Simultaneously, that is the value of Dharma Samgraha; on its own, it is nearly useless, but then for example if you look at the ealry 40s section, there is tantra in a nutshell. It is like a blueprint upon which sadhanas are formulated.

This is a very succinct passage from Vajradaka which summarizes Inner Fire very elegantly, while also having "fires" that are actually Hook Rays:


15.26-32:

The text details the yoga of the inner fire named Mahāmāyā. A practitioner meditates as follows
― The inner fire, Mahāmāyā, is ignited on the circle in the navel area (viz., the emanation cakra) with the wind of karma (karmamāruta). The fire is a hundred-thousandth of the point of a hair in size, and it looks like a mass of flashes of lightening. The fire blazes upward, enters the dharma cakra in the heart, and burns (letters put on) the dharma cakra. Then the fire passes the enjoyment cakra in the
throat, and it goes out from the body both through the right nostril and through between the eyebrows.

Subsequently, the fires spread and go into the bodies of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in the ten directions through their left nostrils. The fires enter the cakras in the heads (viz., the great bliss cakra) of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, burn them, (take bodhicittas or amṛtas [immortal nectars] produced in the great bliss cakras in the heads of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas,) and go out from their bodies. The
fires (holding bodhicittas or amṛtas) come back into the body of the practitioner and enter the great bliss cakra in his head. Then the bodhicittas, or amṛtas, drip from the great bliss cakra to the dharma cakra and cause the experience of bliss of the burnt letters (which represent the Five Buddhas). Finally they drip into the emanation cakra and reside there. This is the whole process of the yoga described in
the text. The Vivṛti comments that it is a form of the yoga of Caṇḍālī (96r4-r5). The Sampuṭodbhava and Kṛṣṇācārya's Vasantatilakā have almost the same teachings.
The fire is named "Nairātmyā" in the former scripture and "Vārāhī" in the latter scripture.


That refers to the Four Joys or the entire first half of Suksma Yoga ending in The Vessel or Bharati.

In terms of the operative male seed hypostasis:

It is informed that all above were taught by the Lord, who is the Vajra-holder, Vajrasattva, a Tathāgata, and Vajraḍāka (who is the fusion of all Ḍākinīs).


Also it says that Mahamaya is Mam-arisen which implies she is Mamaki.

Varuni, Khandaroha, and Pratisara are Mamaki. Nairatma and Vajravarahi are both aspects of Guhyesvari, who is Mamaki, albeit at her "highest explanation level" or perhaps Paramartha or Ultimate Meaning, the almost worldess teching that directs us to the Third Void.

[Old Student]

I cannot remember if Vajrapani had placed these devis all in the same form. But as it turns out, there is nothing obscure, Lankeswari is the patron deity of Sonepur, Paschima Lanka.

A government paper gives some history of her:

I believe there is a copper plate, I believe they have some justification. I take a lot of attributions of things to Orissa as being of the same status as the disputes over where the Queen of Sheba reigned, between the Ethiopians and the Yemeni.

The dispute about Devikota is significant to the general fact of three sacred mountains in Tibet, Kailas, Lapchi, and Tsari. One of the most detailed accounts of it is in The Ravines of Tsari. It is at the border to Arunchal Pradesh. Padmasambhava and Vimalamitra are the first ones considered to have accessed it, and it has remained important to for instance the founder of Drikung who had dreams about it.

I had only heard of Kailash, the lake and swamp at its base is headwaters to a surprising number of great rivers.

There are almost a hundred each of Namos and Namahs in Sadhanamala as headers. and you can actually find one at the end of a Vajratiksna mantra, so as an ending it may not be thoroughly sanitized, but it is barely there.

Refuge Vow done with Namo sounds rather strange to me, but, some of them do it that way.

The Japanese I quoted is from a protection chant. There are two kinds of Buddhist temples in China and Japan, shi - 寺 and miao - 廟. I had a Chinese friend one time that said that all miao are dedicated to Guanyin (Avalokitashvara) and the others are to anyone. I don't know if that is true. In front of most of the miao that I've seen, is a pole or stake in the ground that begins, Na mo .... I don't know how they say the Refuge Vow, at the Zen place I attended it was one of the ones we did in English.

[Old Student]

Thank you for the pdf, that is a good one.

The mental state is the Noumenal factor which results in corresponding Phenomena.

Samadhis and Mandalas are unlimited. Nevertheless, with respect to our planet, it could be said that a quantifiable number have been established here by Buddha and others and that is what we rely on. I say this due to Sraddha or Conviction that any legitimate teacher of Sambhogakaya has said something valid, and that it is impossible to deviate very far from what has been said. After all, the Spiritual Community is continuous to the Akanistha. If I am there, I will find them; no one else is there.

So in the Avatamsaka, they need to be taught a particular concentration any time there is something they cannot see (e.g. a buddha or bodhisattva or a place), the concentration is like a siddhi that enables them to see some part of the teaching. They are, as you say, limitless, and they stop in the sutra at one point to teach the assembled a new concentration so they can see something and then move on.

[Old Student]

I am not sure how you really test that.

I am not trying to.

I'm not sure either. I do know there was a similar belief about hitting the ground in falling dreams. I hit the ground in one, and then wondered where the story had come from and in investigating it, found out tons of people had, just like me, hit the ground and nothing had happened to them. This one sounds really difficult. What would it mean? That I would walk, ride, or fly from where I was in the shaman body, and go to where I was physically and do what exactly? It seems like an unlikely thing. Maybe other people aren't as strewn all over as I am.

Very interesting.

The fact that these devis are granted Animals and then are entirely re-iterated as Birds tells us something.

Bird is very special in both its symbolic forms and the feathered friends outdoors.

Who is Controlling Food to begin samadhi? Crow.

Oops. I kicked the crows out. They were trashing the place and frightening the smaller birds. I (as the bird familiar of that shaman) told them to leave. They hang out across the street or next door. I didn't actually know that I had succeeded until they all stayed away, that's the first I found out they can somehow understand me.

The most beneficial magical creature is usually held to be Garuda.

This is how they usually translate 'Khyung'. I only know that because after the crow thing I spent days trying to find out more about eagles and Tibet and shamans.

It is a bit odd, your descriptions sounded like "spontaneous" asanas coming from an in-the-moment need.

I can conceive of it, but do not really have a similar experience.

That's a good way of putting some of the poses. Sometimes the poses are 'extremes' they are the kind of limiting position of a particular kind of shaking and I stay in them for sometimes minutes (this kind usually have a lot of muscles at their maximum tension). Others are positions within which the shaking happens -- one of the most frequent, and I was told was "my position" for a lot of stuff is supta baddha konasana. I am in that pose sometimes when my whole pelvis is shaking in multiple ways and my sacrum is twisting, and also sometimes in it when my spine needs to straighten. I am sometimes in a (lying down) half-lotus, but it is hard for me to move my lower body in all the different ways it moves from there, I'm just not that loose. Most of the other positions I don't know the yoga names for. The Sarasvati's lute pose I told you about is kind of both kinds, it's a limiting pose and also one from which I shake within it.

The fire is named "Nairātmyā" in the former scripture and "Vārāhī" in the latter scripture.

That refers to the Four Joys or the entire first half of Suksma Yoga ending in The Vessel or Bharati.

In terms of the operative male seed hypostasis:

It is informed that all above were taught by the Lord, who is the Vajra-holder, Vajrasattva, a Tathāgata, and Vajraḍāka (who is the fusion of all Ḍākinīs).


Also it says that Mahamaya is Mam-arisen which implies she is Mamaki.

Some of this sounds like blazing and dripping. Mamaki is water related. Is Mahamaya, who in this passage seems like fire -- and therefore almost an opposite -- a complement?

It is interesting that earlier it is Nairatmya and later it is Varahi. I get the feeling that Varahi gradually accumulates things earlier ascribed to a larger set of deities.

[shaberon]

Sadanga Yoga from Vajrapani



I am simply going to copy the majority of this section since it is extremely obscure and was not translated yet but just Romanized.

It is a commentary on Chakrasamvara 9 & 10.

And so if we turn to the handy Dharma Samgraha, it should not be hard to find Six Yogas, Six Yoginis, and most other aspects of a potential Mandala, however the entire basket is unnecessary for this purpose and it is not in order.

Samputa Tantra says Six Yogas is the practice of "Guhyasamaja and the other tantras", and so Vajrapani must be commenting the way Guhyasamaja and Chakrasamvara practices have been Accomplished. And so he summarizes what he knows and it is this upon which Kalachakra is founded.

It is held to be one of the most critically fundamental commentaries on the subject.

I certainly had never seen it and was obfuscated by the title since it sounded like it was part of Laghu Chakrasamvara. But that is probably the text he is working from. There probably are articles where this or that Lama has said something about it, although its historical importance has dimisnished because it is subsumed in the later Vimala Prabha. But, particularly here, it is really only talking about the tradition of the Esoteric Community which operates any of the tantras in its genre. So it is primary in the same sense that saying Varuni and Candali, Vajravairocani, etc., are names for the only physiological conditions that make the operation work.

Chakrasamvara was revealed by Manjushri and is getting a little more Vastness from Vajrapani.

I am just going to point out a few things that stand out to me and perhaps we can focus parts of the text as needed.

The end of the previous section says it is going to bring two kinds of siddhis:

iha yogitvaṁ dvidhā laukikaṁ lokottaraṁ ca|


So, part of the meaning of "technique" is that Buddhism says it has Lokottara or Transcendental Siddhis, Utpatti and Nispanna, Generation and Completion Stages, which are not present in Hinduism, although the Laukika Siddhis are.

It is the male half of Prajna:

upāyaḥ ṣaḍaṅgayogaḥ|



This may be the Dharma or Reality of unlimited Upeksa:

parasparāpekṣakadharmo


It looks like it negates Paratantra or "Other-Dependent" Nature, which makes Samaya Uttare or Unexcelled Bond of Bhagavan:

aparatantrāntaroktaiḥ ṣaḍaṅgair asmin piṇḍīkṛto 'rtho 'ṅgatrayāṇām avagantavyaḥ| iha śrīsamājottare bha-
gavān āha-

Iteration of the Six Yogas:

pratyāhāras tathā dhyānaṁ prāṇāyāmaś ca dhāraṇā|
anusmṛtiḥ samādhiś ca ṣaḍaṅgo yoga iṣyate||

Vajra Muttering leads to Dharana or Retention of Prana, which produces Bliss like a fuel for Samadhi:

ato dhyānapūrvaḥ pratyāhāro veditavyaḥ| mantrajāpapūrvaḥ prā-
ṇāyāmo veditavyaḥ| atra mantrajāpaśabdena napuṁsakajāpo vajra-
jāpo vā prāṇadhāraṇā ucyate| sukhapūrvānusmṛtir veditavyā| atra su-
khaśabdena samādhir ucyate|


Laukika Bala Yoga is the Fruit of Muttering, Withdrawal, and a noteworthy appearance of Samjna in a hyper form similar to Samjna Samjnin, followed by a Wheel with Consorts:

ādi-karmikāṇāṁ bālayogināṁ laukikaṁ phalaṁ mantrajāpena pratyāhāra-
saṁjñijnā| dhyānena maṇḍalacakrādivikalpabhāvanācittena sukhena
ca karmamudrājñānamudrākṣaraspandasukhena|


Then he gives each Yoga a paragraph.


Pratyahara:

iha pratyāhāro nāma bāhyarūpādiviṣayeṣv apravṛttiś
kṣurādīndriyaiś cakṣurvijñānādīnām| adhyātmani viṣayeṣu pravṛttir
vyacakṣurādīndriyair divyacakṣurvijñānādīnām iti| adhyātmani śūnyatā-
mbhanenāakalpitaṁ sarvabhāvadarśanaṁ śūnye pratisenādarśe
mārikāyā iveti pratyāhārāṅgam ucyate traidhātukabuddhabimba-
rśanād iti|


Dhyana:

tato dhyānaṁ nāma śūnyeṣu sarvadharmeṣu dṛṣṭeṣu satsu|
ajñā nāma teṣu cittapravṛttiḥ| vitarko nāma bhāvagrahaṇaṁ citta
sya| vicāro nāmo bhāvagrahaṇapratipattiḥ| ratir nāma sarvabhāveṣu
tāropaṇam acalasukhaṁ nāma sarvabhāvebhyaḥ sukhasaṁpattiḥ| evaṁ
ñcadhā dhyānāṅgam ucyate|


Pranayama:

tataḥ prāṇāyāmo nāma lalanārasanā-
madakṣiṇamārganirodhaḥ| avadhūtīmadhyamārge prāṇavāyoḥ sadā
avṛttir iti| pūrakakumbhakare cakayogenāvadhūtyām
_kāreṇa śvāsaṁ| hūṁkāreṇa nirodham| āḥkāreṇa niḥśvāsam|
candrarāhusūryasvabhāvena kurute yogīti prāṇāyāmāṅgam ucyate|


Dharana:

tato dhāraṇā nāma prāṇasya māhendravāruṇāgnivāyumaṇḍale nābhau
hṛdi kaṇṭhe lalāṭe praveśo bāhye 'nirgamaḥ| bindau prāṇaniveśanam iti
dhāraṇāṅgam ucyate|


Smrti:

tato 'nusmṛtir nāma sveṣṭadevatādarśanaṁ
pratibimbākāraṁ vikalparahitam| tasmād anekaraśmisphuradrūpaṁ pra-
bhāmaṇḍalam| tato 'nekākāraṁ sphuradrūpaṁ traidhātukaspharaṇam
ity anusmṛtyaṅgam ucyate|


Samadhi:

tataḥ samādhir nāmeṣṭadevatānu-
rāgād yadakṣarasukhaprāptis tasyām ekīkaraṇaṁ cittasya| grāhya-
grāhakarahitaṁ cittaṁ samādhyaṅgam ucyate tathāgataiḥ| iha ṣaḍaṅ-
gayogo 'tra saṁkṣepeṇokto| vistar<at>o lakṣābhidhāne paramādibuddhe
vā sadgurūpadeśenāvagantavyo yoginā mahāmudrāsiddhaya
iti|


In Kalachakra, those are given the forms of Animal-Headed Tramen, and we can also see them integrated by degrees of Indra, Bala, and Bodhyanga in the Pitha system.


It appears the male seed is going to interface through Maha Usnisa which has already come to our attention as a culmination of the male-based Vajra Sekhara system such as is known in Japan, manifesting Amrtakundalin:

iha ṣaḍaṅgasya punar ādimārgabhāvanopadeśas tantrān-
tareṣūkhaḥ| iha śrīsamājottare sevopasādhanaṁ sādhanaṁ mahāsā
dhanaṁ ceti| tad eva bhagavān āha-

sevākāle mahoṣṇīṣaṁ bimbaṁ vibhāvya yatnataḥ|
upasādhanakāle tu bimbaṁ cāmṛtakuṇḍalīm||
sādhane devatābimbaṁ bhāvayed yogatatparaḥ|
mahāsādhanakāle tu bimbaṁ buddhādhipaṁ vibhum|| iti|


So this is a Seva or Upa Sadhana. That means the male seed, Smrti, has to arise and succeed at something to make it a full Sadhana. The reason for saying it "equates" to Sati is to make the correspondence in the various Dharma Samgraha categories or degrees that the Pitha symbolisms are drawn from. This similarly says that a female Sati can work as a "placeholder" in the same way that sometimes one "stands" for Upaya, the female can substrate the normally male roles, but, here, it has to eventuate in a male Smrti as in Vajradaka Tantra.

It will activate via Dharmodaya and so on:


atra saṁdhyābhāṣāntareṇoṣṇīṣabimbaṁ buddhabimbaṁ tra-
idhātukam aśeṣataḥ| ākāśe dharmodaye cittavajraṁ pratiṣthāpya sevākāle
prathamakāle pratyāhāreṇa bhāvayed dhyānāṅgena sthirīkuryād ity atra
bhagavataḥ pratijñā-

(86)

sarvacintāṁ parityajya dinam ekaṁ parīkṣayet|
yadi na syāt pratyayas tatra tadā me tanmṛṣā vacaḥ|| iti|

It mentions Smoke which the the wrathful color of Samadhi:

atra pratyayo dhūmādikaṁ nimittaṁ nānyan mantrādikaṁ
dinenaikena sādhyate yena pratyayo bhaviṣyati mantriṇām| ato 'stināsti-
buddhiṁ parityajya nirāśrayāṁ kṛtvā śūnye gambhīro nirālambaḥ
pratyayo bhavati| sa ca pratyayārtho dhūmādiko bhāvyate
yogineti tathāgataniyamaḥ| tathā-
karaṇair bandhasaṁyogaiḥ sādhayed bhuvanatrayam| iti|
buddhabimbaṁ bhuvanatrayaṁ sādhayet karaṇaiś cakṣurādibhiḥ| sa evo-
padeśo guruvaktreṇāvagantavyaḥ| tatra gurūpadeśenākāśe prathamaṁ yogī dhūmaṁ paśyati na marīcikām iti svānubhavato jñeyam|

He gives the signs of Dissolutions beginning with Smoke which results in Dakini Panjara which becomes related to Maya Svapna:

tato marīcikā
paścāt tad eva dhūmādikaṁ kalpanārahitaṁ pratisenāvad iti|
evaṁ prathamaṁ dhūmanimittam| dvitīyaṁ marīcikānimittam|
tṛtīyaṁ khadyotanimittam| caturtham dīpanimittam| pañcamaṁ
nirabhragaganasaṁnibhaṁ nimittam iti samājottare| ḍākinī-
vajrapañjare 'pi bhagavatoktam| tadupari bhagavān āha ḍākinīvajra-
pañjare-

sarvajñahetukaṁ tad dhi siddhinikaṭe nivartakam|
paścān māyopamākāraṁ svapnākāraṁ kṣaṇāt kṣaṇaṁ|| ityādi|
ato bhagavato vacanād ādau dhūmādinimittabhāvanā-
pratyayo bhavati| kecit siddhikāle vadiṣyanti te sarve bhagavataḥ
pratijñābhaṅgakāriṇaḥ| sarvacintāṁ parityajya dinam ekaṁ parīkṣayet
pratyayam iti bhagavato vacanaviheṭhakāḥ| yat siddhikāle laukikaṁ
dhūmādikaṁ tan nimittaṁ māyāsvapnopamaṁ na bhavati| sākṣād dhū-
majvālādidahanakriyāsāmarthyāt tathā kuñkumapuṣparatnasuvarṇā-
divṛṣṭir api| ataḥ ṣaḍaṅgayogād dhūmādikaṁ nimittaṁ bhavatīti
| tathā ḍākinīvajrapañjare bhagavān āha-

(87)

"This" is Svadisthana or Water Moon, etc.:

ṣaḍaṅgaṁ bhāvayet tasmāt svādhiṣṭhānasamaṁ punaḥ|
paścāt saṁlakṣayec cihnam anulomavidhikramaiḥ|| iti|


The Void and a Fire Bindu are in a Non or Nira Bhram which constitutes Maya Jala Samadhi of Patala:

atra svādhiṣṭhānaṁ nāma saṁvṛteḥ satyadarśanaṁ śūnye darśanaṁ
pratyāhāreṇa| cihnaṁ nāma meghadhūmādivat pratibhāsaḥ| sa ca pra-
thamaṁ dṛśyate pradīpaparyantam|tata ākāśaṁ nirabhraṁ
nirmalam iti| tantreṣv aparaṁ jvālādibinduparyantaṁ ṣaḍ-
dhā nimittaṁ māyājāle samādhipaṭale proktaṁ bhagavatā|
tadyathā|


The Swayambhu or Self-Arisen:

gaganodbhavaḥ svayambhūḥ prajñājñānānalo mahān||
vairocano mahādīptir jñānajyotir virocanaḥ|
jagatpradīpo jñānolko mahātejāḥ prabhāsvaraḥ||
vidyārājo 'gramantreśo mantrarājo mahārthakṛt| iti|


By pursuing this through Rahu to Prabhasvara you reach a Blue Wheel and by Conquering the Three Worlds, Pranayama Locks one into the birth of a Kama Rupa:

gāthādvayena māyājāle 'paranimittaṁ bhagavatoktaṁ saṁdhyābhā-
ṣāntareṇa pūrvoktān nirabhragaganād bhavati pratibhāso yaḥ sa
gaganodbhavaḥ svayambhūḥ sarvavikalparahitacittād iti| atra prajñājñānā-
nala iti jvālāpratibhāsaḥ| vairocano mahādīptir iti candrapratibhāsaḥ| sa
eva jñānajyotir virocana iti| jagatpradīpa iti sūryapratibhāso jñānol-
ka iti rāhupratibhāsaḥ| mahātejāḥ prabhāsvara iti vidyutpratibhāsaḥ| vi-
dyārājo 'gramantreśa iti bindupratibhāso nīlavarṇacandramaṇḍalākāra
iti| mantrarājo mahārthakṛd iti sarvākāratraidhātukabhāvapratibhāso
māyāsvapnapratisenātulyo dṛśyate yoginā pratyāhāreṇeti
cakṣurādīndriyakaraṇena| tatra prāṇāyāmabandhena ebhiḥ karaṇair
bandhasaṁyogaiḥ sādhayed bhuvanatrayaṁ kāmarūpārpyalakṣaṇaṁ sthi-
racalasvabhāvātmakam iti| tathā ḍākinīvajrapañjare bhagavān
āha-

(88)

sidhyaty aśeṣaniḥśeṣaṁ traidhātuka<ṁ> carācaram|
lokadhātuṣu sarveṣu yāvanto vajradchinaḥ|| iti|
ṣaḍaṅgabhāvanayeti bhagavato niyamaḥ| tathā śrīsamāje bhagavān
āha-

abhāve bhāvanābhāvo bhāvanā naiva bhāvanā|
iti bhāvo na bhāvaḥ syād bhāvanā nopalabhyate|| it|
ihābhāve nirabhragagane bhāvanā pratyāhāraḥ| sa <evābhāve>
bhāvanābhāva iti bhāvanā naiva bhāvaneti| iha pratyāhārabhavanā yā
'bhāve nirabhragagane sā bhāvanā naiva bhāvanā bhavati| vikalpabhā-
vanārahitatvād iti bhāvo yaḥ pratyāhāreṇa dṛṣṭaḥ sa bhāvo na bhāvaḥ syād
akalpitātītānāgatavartamānabhāvābhāvadarśanād iti| ato vikalpabhāva
nā nopalabhyate pratyāhārabhāvanāyām iti bhagavato vākyam|
iyaṁ bhāvanā prajñāpāramitāyām api bhagavatoktā|


Indra has apparently fused with Ayus which has to do with Subhuti and Prajnaparamita and then Kausika Yoga applies:

tadyathā|
atha khalu śakro devānām indra āyuṣmantaṁ subhūtim etad avo-
cat| ya āryasubhūte 'tra prajñāpāramitāyāṁ yogam āpasyate kva sa yo-
gam āpsyate| subhūtir āha| ākāśe sa kauśika yogam āpsyate| yaḥ
prajñāpāramitāyāṁ yogam āpsyate| abhyavakāśe sa
kauśika yogam <āptukāmaḥ> yaḥ prajñāpāramitāyāṁ śikṣita-
vyaṁ mansyata iti|

mahāmudrābhāvanā pratisenāmāyātulyā nirabhre gagane
bhagavatokteti| evaṁ pratyāhāreṇa dhyānena sevāṅgam
ucyate| tato 'mṛtakuṇḍalībimbasaṁjñayā saṁdhyābhāṣāntareṇa vāyur
uktaḥ| sa ca pañcaprakāraḥ| tathā samājottare bhagavān āha-

(89)

pañcaratnamayaṁ śvāsaṁ pañcabuddhair adhiṣṭhitam|
niścārya piṇḍarūpeṇa nāsikāgre vibhāvayet|| iti|


He is going to take the Quintessence to the main Nerves until going into Candali Yoga:

iha pañcaratnaśabdena rasanā pañcamaṇḍaladhar-
miṇyaḥ pṛthivyādipañcadhātavas tanmayaṁ śvāsaṁ pañcaratnama-
yam iti savyanāsāpuṭe| tathā pañcabuddhā lalanāpañcamaṇḍaladharmi-
no vijñānādipañcaskandhāḥ| tair adhiṣṭhitaṁ śvāsaṁ vāmanāsāpuṭa iti
| niścārya piṇḍarūpeṇeti| iha piṇḍaṁ savyāvasavyamaṇḍalānām
ekatvaṁ madhyamāyām avadhūtyāṁ prāṇavāyor iti| taṁ ca prā-
ṇavāyuṁ niścārya piṇḍarūpeṇa nāsikāgre vibhāvayet| atra nāsikā-
śabdena nābhihṛtkaṇṭhalalāṭoṣṇīṣakamalakarṇikocyate| tasyāgre
bhāvayen nāsikāgre bhāvayet| karṇikāt karṇikāmadhye na savyāvasa-
vyakamaladala iti| evaṁ bindusthāne piṇḍarūpeṇa nirodhitaḥ
prāṇaḥ| tenaiva tasya dhāraṇocyate| evam aṅgadvayenopasā-
dhanam amṛtakuṇḍalībimbeneti| tad evopasādhanaṁ vajrajāpa ity
ucyate| madhyamābhinnāṅgena japtavya iti| prāṇasya na vāmadakṣiṇa-
nāḍyāṁ pracāreṇeti| uṣṇīṣabimbe dṛṣṭe sati paścāt prāṇāyā-
maṁ kuryān mantrīti| gurūpadeśaḥ saṁdhyābhāṣāntareṇā-
vagantavya iti prāṇāyāmadhāraṇopasādhanam ucyate| tataḥ sādhane deva-
tābimbam iti| iha dhāraṇābalena nābhisthāṁ caṇḍalīṁ jvalitāṁ pa-
śyati yogī sarvāvaraṇarahitāṁ pratisenopamāṁ mahāmudrām anantabud-
dharaśmimeghān sphārayantīṁ prabhāmaṇḍalavirājitā<m sā>nusmṛti<ḥ>
sādhanam ucyate| dhāraṇānte caṇḍalīyogaṁ bhāvayed iti
niyamaḥ| tatas tasyā jñānārciṣā skandhadhātvāyatanādīni dagdhāny
ekalolībhavanti| vāmadakṣiṇanāḍīgatāni vijñānādipṛthivyādīni maṇḍa-
lasvabhāvāni lalāṭe candramaṇḍale praviṣṭāni| tataś caṇḍālyā jñānārciṣā

(90)

candradrute sati yad bodhicittaṁ bindurūpenādhogataṁ kaṇṭhe
hṛdi nābhau guhyakamale ānandapara maviramasvabhāvena| ta-
to vajramaṇiṁ yāvat sahajānandasvabhāveneti| athavā vicitra
vipākavimardavilakṣaṇasvabhāveneti| evaṁ ṣoḍaśakalāpūr-
ṇaṁ maṇyantargataṁ yadā sukhaṁ dadāti bhāvanābalena cyavanasukha-
sadṛśam iti dṛṣṭāntamātram| svarūpato dvīndriyajaṁ kṣarasukhaṁ koṭīsa-
hasratamīm api kalāṁ nārghati paramākṣarasukhasyeti| ihākṣarasu-
khāvasthā yā sahajānandarūpiṇī sāvasthā kāpy avijñeyā bālayoginām
| bodhisattvaiḥ śūnyatā samādhir ity ucyate| na punar lokarūḍhyā
nāstikyārthānupātinīti| evaṁ ṣaḍaṅgayogena mantrajāpena
dhyānena sukhena ca yogitvaṁ yogināṁ sidhyate paramaṁ puṇy-
aṁ pavitraṁ pāpanāśanam| janmanīhaiva sādhyasādhakaniyamo
bhagavatoktaḥ||


The culmination is a Sahajananda Rupini, which certainly sounds like the intention of the Four Dakinis if understood well from the beginning.

[shaberon]

Posted by Old Student (here)
So in the Avatamsaka, they need to be taught a particular concentration any time there is something they cannot see (e.g. a buddha or bodhisattva or a place), the concentration is like a siddhi that enables them to see some part of the teaching. They are, as you say, limitless, and they stop in the sutra at one point to teach the assembled a new concentration so they can see something and then move on.

That is a pretty good rationale for why someone might be interested in such a vast volume.

The "simple" way I would connect to it would be to say that the various Pure Lands are ranked by how easy they are to enter.

Green Tara's Forest of Turquoise Leaves is the easiest.

Akshobhya's Abhirati is unreachable by less than a Bodhisattva of the Eighth Bhumi.

Most of the rest of them are between there. The next easiest is probably Vajrayogini. So the system of Tara and Vajrayogini is pretty much the same thing.

This is, of course, far less vivid than the uncountable possible Subtle Obscurations and therefor potential Buddha Fields there may be, which comes under the domain of Vajra Ignorance. One, Turquoise Leaves, is in this case enough for me to dedicate myself wholly into it.