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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote There is even a "Buddhist" Ramayana which has a few detectable variances.
    Yes, there's a whole section of a palace devoted to it in Bangkok. It's quite beautiful.

    Quote Others have suggested it should be Sitayana.

    Sita's sister was put to sleep for fourteen years as an exchange for Rama staying awake for fourteen years.

    Urmila or Nidra.

    Sita comes from and returns to Bhu, and it was a Plough which found her, and we can find this as the item of Bala Rama and a few Buddhist deities.
    Farther North, this is the focus, because of the (formerly) Sita River, which if I recall correctly was the river now known as the Helmand River.

    Quote
    Quote
    Quote yaścaitā vajraḍākinyaḥ parikalpitabandhanān
    Is this what Vajradakini is going to do to you, or is it that the consciousness of vajradakini is bound to the void? I couldn't get "yaścaitā" very well, but it seems like the well-known or eminent consciousness.

    My guess was that it was a type of Yas (with effort, through difficulty or pain) Ca Iti, "and therefor that is".
    Yes, I found that version of Caita. But it turns out to also be an Indian girl's name, and as such it means, "of or by the heart or mind".

    Quote The two are substrated by Kalpita, which is imaginary or artificial, in a fictitious or false way, often in a vain or conceited manner.

    Pari- in this sense is towards, round and round, excessively.
    My dictionary gives the whole term 'parikalpita' - wished for, invented, settled, imagined.

    Quote tasmādeva jñānānnirvikalpa sukhamāpnoti
    That is why jnanan nirvakalpa sukha ma apnoti. (I think. My dictionary gives tasmAdeva = "that is why" from tasmin = "in this manner".)

    Quote I think she is locking you into a condition where you can see the spray of minds arise, and have some ability to meditate into its quiescence as well.
    Whatever it is, the making several minds or states simultaneously available, or reversing them, like the other night, so that the ethereal feeling one is the waking one and the solid one is the dreaming, is not something I thought could be done.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Mahachohan said that even if it were all a fiction, Bodhisattva remains the most noble philosophy that has flowed from the pen of man.
    In it's mahayana form, it's incarnating to save the world, but by countless selfless beings, unlike the version to the West where there was only one.

    Quote Makes sense, yes, very removal-of-obscurations, a once-dungeon dissipating cloud room.
    It reminded me more of a very polished dark wood, like in a bar.

    Quote I am not familiar with this, but, the first sounds like the normal arising of the Vijnanas, and then the others are potential benefits of harnessing and re-directing them.

    If you move something directly from the Sutra into experience, especially as dreams, it is harnessed and re-directed Vijnana. Happens to me occasionally. Too much environmental muck for consistency.
    It was reversed from dreams -- the dreams were on solid ground with a body and 'normal' surroundings, the waking (shaking) state was the liquid. I don't know whether it was Removal of Fire Element, it was somehow using bliss to dissolve everything, but at the same time it drew a distinct equivalency between the lightning and that milk/curd/yogurt thing we discussed once before.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    There is even a "Buddhist" Ramayana which has a few detectable variances.

    Yes, there's a whole section of a palace devoted to it in Bangkok. It's quite beautiful.

    Interesting. Is there a way that it shows the "Buddhist variance?" I cannot remember what it is, but, I think a couple things are simply missing.


    Quote Farther North, this is the focus, because of the (formerly) Sita River, which if I recall correctly was the river now known as the Helmand River.
    I see.

    This is one of the sixteen rivers Agni's son Samsaya loves. I recall it was said to be in the Tarim basin.

    If there is a tradition of "Sitayana" there, it would be good to see something from it.

    Rama is just one of those things that is way overdone, so, I don't deal with him much. Similarly, the Bhagavad Gita is really not about Krishna. Pandara's name is related to Pandu, whose five sons including Yudisthira, is what it is about. The "common wife" Draupadi was said by HPB to be "human personality" and so the brothers must be pretty close to five skandhas or five senses.



    Quote Yes, I found that version of Caita. But it turns out to also be an Indian girl's name, and as such it means, "of or by the heart or mind".
    Popular names tend to obstruct technical meaning.

    Sometimes we work into a lather over the most basic things; the more common term in Mahamaya is "Yasca", which, according to Result Two, is a copy of an Avestan word meaning "and who". I am not sure if that would make sense?

    yaśca mūle mukhe varṇaḥ, sa eva dehe iti prasiddhametat |

    Maybe.

    Quote My dictionary gives the whole term 'parikalpita' - wished for, invented, settled, imagined.

    Pretty much.

    "I did not know Buddha so I invented television".


    Quote tasmādeva jñānānnirvikalpa sukhamāpnoti

    That is why jnanan nirvakalpa sukha ma apnoti. (I think. My dictionary gives tasmAdeva = "that is why" from tasmin = "in this manner".)
    Ok, I just took "deva" at face value, but, for some reason, "that is why" seems correct, not sure how it is different from tasma "therefor".

    The last word I only find as part of Paryavapnoti:

    masters, understands (words, a speech, a text, learning): often follows parallel form of Sanskrit vācayati

    "That is why the Wisdom of Nirvikalpa helps me master Bliss"?



    Quote Whatever it is, the making several minds or states simultaneously available, or reversing them, like the other night, so that the ethereal feeling one is the waking one and the solid one is the dreaming, is not something I thought could be done.
    A solid dream I might have trouble with.

    Etherealizing a wakeful body not so much.


    In general parlance, Vijnana is consciousness or even spiritual consciousness, but, is shaped a little differently in Buddhism:

    it is true that to the author of Laṅkāvatāra-sūtra applied knowledge (vijnana) has only practical, and hence in the last analysis no real, application

    Vijnana has three "levels", as a Skandha, an Element, and a Factor of Dependent Origination:

    Vijñāna (विज्ञान, “consciousness”) (pali viññāṇa) refers to the third of twelve pratītyasamutpāda (dependent origination) according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra chapter X. From saṃskāra there arises a defiled mind (samalacitta), initial cause of the present existence. Because it is aware in the way that a calf (vatsa) is aware of its mother, it is called vijñāna, consciousness. This vijñāna produces both the four formless aggregates (arūpiskandha) [perception (saṃjñā), feeling (vedanā), volition (saṃskāra), consciousness (vijñāna)] and form (rūpa) which serves as base them. This is name and form, nāmarūpa.


    So while we have a name, Gunavati, from Shiva Purana, nevertheless Buddhism appears to reverse the meaning there:

    the root of true knowledge (vijñāna) is unswerving devotion (bhakti). The root of knowledge (jñāna) too is devotion.

    They use Jnana in a mundane sense and Vijnana as spiritual truth.

    It also commonly appears equivalent to Cittamatra as Vijnanamatra:

    …is that only consciousness (vijnanamatra; hence the name Vijnanavada) is real and that external things do not exist. Thought or mind is the ultimate reality, and nothing exists outside the mind, according to this school.

    or Vijnaptimatra.

    Through individual Ignorance (Avidya), Vijnaptimatrata as the three vijnanas;

    viz: Alayavijnana

    Manas or Klishto manovijnana,

    and Pravrittivijnana, by which is meant the six consciousnesses - the five sense consciousnesses (seeing, hearing, etc.) and the manovijnana or mind consciousness.


    Is it a contradiction to Sunyata Matra or "Emptiness Only"?

    No.

    For Asanga and Vasubandhu, emptiness is the absence of subject object duality in the mind of the perceiver.

    There remains nevertheless the undeniable fact of consciousness itself.

    So in Shentong we would accept Citta and Sunya both as provisionally true, until joining them in the center without extremes.

    Parikalpita:

    The common sense world is pure imagination, covering up the true reality (dharmata or dharmadhatu), which is that ‘the imagination of something which is actually unreal’ (abhutaparikalpita).

    Paratantra:

    the ‘interdependent own-being’ is unlike the ‘imaginary own-being’, not entirely non-existent.

    The characteristic feature of this knowledge is that it is not altogether a subjective creation produced out of pure nothingness, but it is a construction of some objective reality on which it depends for materials.

    Parinispanna:

    Thirdly we penetrate by means of pure thought to the absolute aspect of the data of experience.

    Absolute knowledge, or ‘right cognition’, has immutable Suchness’ for its object, and for it the empirical object does absolutely not exist in the manner in which it is imagined’

    The Alayavijnana [in] the Lankavatara which is identified with Tathagatagarbha or the Pure Citta is identical with the Vijnaptimatra of Vasubandhu. Both are pure Consciousness which is the permanent background of all phenomena, subjective as well as objective, and which ultimately transcends the subject and object duality.

    From Vijnaptimatra.


    Clear Light or Prabhasvara is Pure Consciousness.

    Parinispanna is therefor the right relationship/right knowledge of Prabhasvara.

    If Ultimate Consciousness cannot be "individualized", cannot be "you" as distinguished from "me", is why the Alaya or Sarvabijaka is not exactly part of man's personal organism.

    The experience of it, is, of course, individual, Atma Vidya, or Atma as the individual perception of Brahman.

    Nirakara is generally "Formless" even in Ramayana, however:

    Nirākārajñānavāda (निराकारज्ञानवाद):—[=nir-ākāra-jñāna-vāda] [from nir-ākāra > nir > niḥ] 1. nir-ākāra-jñāna-vāda m. the doctrine that the perception of the outer world does not arise from images impressed on the mind, [Sarvadarśana-saṃgraha].

    Backwards right? There is no self collecting impressions.

    There is a geyser from one's own consciousness or "Creator" which appears to "send forth" the world. Nirakara meditation gains control of this, and/or prevents it. That would be the Absolute state. Anything that is capable of producing a "new" image is not Absolute. And so we don't fully agree with what is more commonly called Citta Matra school, which seems to insist that the mind must keep something going and changing from time to time.

    It is close, Citta Matra would hold true in the vast majority of experience, but again this is provisional not permanent. Citta Matra may be called Sakara Vijnana Vada (cf. Dharmapala).

    We further find that the Yogacara outlook represented by this school later divided into two distinct systems, one which we might call the orthodox position and the other a popular offshoot. The orthodox position is that held by Vasubandhu's direct disciple Sthiramati, who advocated what is called nirakara-vijnana-vada (the doctrine of non-substantive consciousness) based on asserting the emptiness (sunyata) of both external objects and consciousness. This view was eventually transmitted by Paramartha (499-590 AD) to China, and is the same as that held by Tilopa, the founder of the Kagyu school of Tibet, as expressed in his song of Mahamudra called the Ganga-ma. It is also the viewpoint expounded by Acarya Manjusrimitra in the penultimate Yogacara treatise, the Bodhicittabhavana.

    The popular or exoteric position:

    Dharmapala's line of thought was transmitted to China by Hiuen Tsang, the famous Chinese pilgrim mentioned above, in the seventh century and has since had a significant impact on the practice of Zen in Japan. Huge efforts on the part of generations of Tibetan scholars have been spent attempting to demonstrate in logical terms the impractical basis of this latter doctrine.

    Proponents of Nirakara Vijnana Vada include Ratnakarasanti, Santaraksita, Kamalasila, and by extension Haribhadra.

    Nirakara vs. Sakara and the nature of "Alaya" are the main things that caused splits in Buddhist schools.

    I am not terribly interested in the argument, since I, at least, understand Nirakara experientially. So I have just found others who described it centuries ago, it is neither mine nor something I made up out of wishful thinking. Probably more like a memory in this case, like remembering the subject rather than your life in which you found it.




    It is snakey since a lot of Buddhist Sanskrit is just lifted from normal language, but, in many cases, there is a change or difference in the definition or usage. Because I have only really studied the metaphysical terms, I am pretty lame with regular grammar and rhetoric and it sometimes takes a few tries.
    Last edited by shaberon; 1st May 2021 at 07:20.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    In it's mahayana form, it's incarnating to save the world, but by countless selfless beings, unlike the version to the West where there was only one.

    Indeed, by the Sangha.

    It is rare that a Full Buddha appears, whereas there are a lot of Bodhisattvas, in or out of incarnation.

    Buddha enters Parinispanna and is unable to incarnate again, at least on this planet. He is the "best example" with "a teaching" and it is really others who keep it going.


    Quote It reminded me more of a very polished dark wood, like in a bar.

    Never seen anything like that.

    Perhaps it was "Earth Element" in that state.

    Quote It was reversed from dreams -- the dreams were on solid ground with a body and 'normal' surroundings, the waking (shaking) state was the liquid. I don't know whether it was Removal of Fire Element, it was somehow using bliss to dissolve everything, but at the same time it drew a distinct equivalency between the lightning and that milk/curd/yogurt thing we discussed once before.
    That equivalency sounds pretty close to "you" being the Creator.

    In this way, I believe the Akash or Mental plane is quite similar to physical nebulae, the nurseries of stars.

    But it would be unrealistic for me to assume that any appearance of "sparks" is equal to Kadhyota.

    In the light of the Yogacara teachings, according to Tibet Museum after visualizing Tara:

    One simultaneously becomes inseparable from all her good qualities while at the same time realizing the emptiness of the visualization of oneself as the yidam and also the emptiness of one's ordinary self.

    This occurs in the completion stage of the practice. One dissolves the created deity form and at the same time also realizes how much of what we call the "self" is a creation of the mind and has no long term substantial inherent existence. This part of the practice then is preparing the practitioner to be able to confront the dissolution of one's self at death and ultimately be able to approach through various stages of meditation upon emptiness, the realization of Ultimate Truth as a vast display of Emptiness and Luminosity. At the same time the recitation of the mantra has been invoking Tara's energy through its Sanskrit seed syllables and this purifies and activates certain psychic centers of the body (chakras). This also untangles knots of psychic energy which have hindered the practitioner from developing a Vajra body, which is necessary to be able to progress to more advanced practices and deeper stages of realization.

    Therefore even in a simple Tara sadhana a plethora of outer, inner, and secret events is taking place...

    ...The mantra helps generate Bodhicitta within the heart of the practitioner and purifies the psychic channels (nadis) within the body allowing a more natural expression of generosity and compassion to flow from the heart center. Through experiencing Tara's perfected form, one acknowledges one's own perfected form, that is one's intrinsic Buddha nature, which is usually covered over by obscurations and clinging to dualistic phenomena as being inherently real and permanent.
    The practice then weans one away from a coarse understanding of Reality, allowing one to get in touch with inner qualities similar to those of a bodhisattva, and prepares one's inner self to embrace finer spiritual energies, which can lead to more subtle and profound realizations of the Emptiness of phenomena and self.

    As Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche, in his Introduction to the Red Tara Sadhana, notes of his lineage: "Tara is the flawless expression of the inseparability of emptiness, awareness and compassion. Just as you use a mirror to see your face, Tara meditation is a means of seeing the true face of your mind, devoid of any trace of delusion".


    Because she is a major guide on Dissolutions, removing Fire is dissolving Samjna Skandha:

    The third dissolution is that of the aggregate of perception or discrimination – the ability to recognize what objects are. The internal experience is that you would no longer be aware of who people like close family and friends were, you would forget their names. The fire element diminishes, with the external sign that the body begins to lose its warmth. The nose sense-power deteriorates and we can no longer smell odours. The external sign is that the inhalation is weak, the exhalation stronger. The rhythm of breathing speeds up, like panting. The internal vision is sparks – a fire funnelled up through a chimney with the sparks flying into the night sky.

    Hayagriva Center has one of the best summaries from four Rinpoches about it all. I, personally, think of it as the go-to process, since one is going to leave and return to this miserable ball of mud many times.

    There are other methods, such as I believe the Nyingma school does it just with the Hum syllable, but I am a bit more comfortable with a deity who has an accessible Pure Land giving practice runs on it by meditation and then definitive placement at death.

    I have never quite seen the vista where electricity plays with curds, but, to me, this has a lot more "potential" or feels like it is there in the background, unlike wood having much to do with the subtle body. But I don't like describing the types of prisons and obstacles I face, which would be a lot more drastic than a wooden appearance on a brief basis. It is like you saw "enough" of it to know that it "was" there, but, fortunately, you are not confined to it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Interesting. Is there a way that it shows the "Buddhist variance?" I cannot remember what it is, but, I think a couple things are simply missing.
    As far as I can remember (I saw it several years ago), there were no changes to the story, only changes in meaning and role of characters -- meaning that they were described differently or given different status. Lots of scenes of the forest.

    Quote I see.

    This is one of the sixteen rivers Agni's son Samsaya loves. I recall it was said to be in the Tarim basin.

    If there is a tradition of "Sitayana" there, it would be good to see something from it.
    The Helmand is in Afghanistan. There are several rivers in the Tarim. The analysis I saw didn't say there was a "Sitayana" it said there was an interest in the story of the Ramayana in which they cast it as happening there or near there because of the river. They were analyzing importations of Hindu deities into Buddhism that were extant in Khotan, which is in the Tarim, but they didn't say the Sita River was there that I can recall. The other major deity imported was Shiva, who was blended into one of the Buddhist deities, I don't remember which one.

    Quote "That is why the Wisdom of Nirvikalpa helps me master Bliss"?
    Sounds reasonable.

    Quote A solid dream I might have trouble with.

    Etherealizing a wakeful body not so much.
    Not sure that this particular combination happens any other way.

    Quote It also commonly appears equivalent to Cittamatra as Vijnanamatra:

    …is that only consciousness (vijnanamatra; hence the name Vijnanavada) is real and that external things do not exist. Thought or mind is the ultimate reality, and nothing exists outside the mind, according to this school.
    I don't guess I was aware of there being two terms. Just "mind only school".

    Quote Nirākārajñānavāda (निराकारज्ञानवाद):—[=nir-ākāra-jñāna-vāda] [from nir-ākāra > nir > niḥ] 1. nir-ākāra-jñāna-vāda m. the doctrine that the perception of the outer world does not arise from images impressed on the mind, [Sarvadarśana-saṃgraha].

    Backwards right? There is no self collecting impressions.

    There is a geyser from one's own consciousness or "Creator" which appears to "send forth" the world. Nirakara meditation gains control of this, and/or prevents it. That would be the Absolute state. Anything that is capable of producing a "new" image is not Absolute. And so we don't fully agree with what is more commonly called Citta Matra school, which seems to insist that the mind must keep something going and changing from time to time.
    That doesn't sound so different if the outer world does not arise from perceptions of the mind, and if anything created by the "Creator" is not absolute then there isn't a role for mind, what is being 'kept going'?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote That equivalency sounds pretty close to "you" being the Creator.

    In this way, I believe the Akash or Mental plane is quite similar to physical nebulae, the nurseries of stars.
    Much more soupy than space, in my case.

    Quote I have never quite seen the vista where electricity plays with curds, but, to me, this has a lot more "potential" or feels like it is there in the background, unlike wood having much to do with the subtle body. But I don't like describing the types of prisons and obstacles I face, which would be a lot more drastic than a wooden appearance on a brief basis. It is like you saw "enough" of it to know that it "was" there, but, fortunately, you are not confined to it.
    Fair enough, but I'm still not sure about why things were reversed. It has happened once again, completely different imagery, a very concrete, "real" feeling dream followed by a very non-corporeal shaking. My feeling is that this is being taught/is happening for a reason, and I'm just not figuring it out.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The analysis I saw didn't say there was a "Sitayana" it said there was an interest in the story of the Ramayana in which they cast it as happening there or near there because of the river. They were analyzing importations of Hindu deities into Buddhism that were extant in Khotan, which is in the Tarim, but they didn't say the Sita River was there that I can recall. The other major deity imported was Shiva, who was blended into one of the Buddhist deities, I don't remember which one.

    Ah, ok.

    Tagore says that the Agni Yajna cult's fire was spread from the Sita River (Oxus or Jaxartes) to South India. Skanda Purana says that Agni propitiates Shiva for the boon that the sixteen rivers become his wives.

    Or, a basis for a tantric Homa, if Shiva has an esoteric meaning to me and I will probably never be in any of his locations or linga, etc., then, so far, I understand what is intended by Nirajan.

    There is also a Sita River in India, or was, it is going dry.

    He does not really back up why he thinks the northern river was such a source, but, it sounds closer to Uttara Kuru at least.

    I would be more prone to see such a Sita River as the source of Agni or Fire Philosophy, since I believe it was the occult tradition of ancient Central Asia, which has two branches, Eastern, or Aryan, and Western. or Zoroastrian.

    I am not so sure I would move Lanka there. Because Ramayana, at least, involves Rama, and, historically it seems important to place him at Ayodhya, I think it is, ca. 5,000 B. C., and that historical Sita who lived shortly before Buddha is like a mini-repeat of this.

    I think the difference in Buddhist Ramayana is there was no war.

    In the original, ancient one there was, but I think the Buddhists may be referring to historical Sita.

    Probably a cyclic saga in that way.

    Inside India then you get the overlap from such Aryans with Kirats who came through China.

    Lankans are thought of as Lemurians, in which case the story may cycle even further back into any arbitrarily large number of years you choose to give it. Million?

    HPB told the oceanographers one day they would find a submerged mountain ridge going around South Africa, etc. How can you just say that and let it be discovered whenever it was?

    The corresponding view is that there is not really such a thing as tectonic plate drift, aside from of course some meters or maybe a few kilometers, and that instead, the plates mostly move up and down.



    Quote I don't guess I was aware of there being two terms. Just "mind only school".

    Yes, in fact I just noticed something because you can buy a reprint of Mahamaya tantra, with Gunavati comm. by Ratnakarasanti, critically edited Sanskrit text with Tibetan version by S. Rinpoche (Varanasi, 1992).

    And, oh, that is what it says at the end of the third or Vajradakini section, same as we already have:

    guṇavatīnāma mahāmāyātantraṭīkā
    mahāpaṇḍitaratnākaraśāntipādānāṃ samāpteti|


    Except the suggestion it is a "commentary" seems off. There is an author named Gunamati. This seems to name Gunavati as the tantra itself.

    We have already found some of Ratnakarasanti's material and that he is author of a significant Hevajra commentary and Vajra Tara sadhana.

    And so if he was active around the height of the Mahasiddha era or ca. 1,000, at that time he has landed in the philosophy disputes among the schools of Buddhism.



    Treasury of Lives has some of the best biographies:

    Other disciples of Ratnākaraśānti claimed he was one of the central four guardians [at Vikramasila] and that the Buddha had predicted he would counter the increasing hegemony of Candrakīrti's incorrect and nihilistic interpretation of Nāgārjuna's Madhyamaka.


    And so in general, Yogacara has been largely suppressed by Madhyamika. This has, to a limited extent, been countered, more like defrayed.

    But in order to classify itself as "not-Cittamatra", this strand sometimes has been described as Yogacara Madhyamika. I had thought there was a fair continuity from Haribhadra to Shentong. According to an Oxford thesis supervised by Vesna Wallace:

    Ratnakarasanti's Saratama sought to replace his teacher's [Dharmakirtisri's] Yogacara-Madhyamika framework with a causal explanation of Prajnaparamita through redefining the term Prajnaparamita as the path to awakening, rather than its goal. By unpacking that causal explanation in light of his broader system, the thesis demonstrates the way that Ratnakarasanti's own version of Nirakaravadin-Yogacara-Madhyamika refutes cognitive images (akara) as unreal ultimately, but claims they are still perceived by buddhas out of compassion. This conclusion debunks the long-standing theory that Ratnakarasanti was an Indian proponent of the controversial Tibetan gZhan-stong despite later gZhan-stong propon-ents' attempts to claim him as their own.

    The second part consists of an annotated translation of the Saratama's introductory section, contrasted with the prior standard interpretation by Haribhadra's (9th century C.E.).


    It may be interesting to see what they have gotten into. If it means Shentong, I do not understand why we would not say Buddhas perceive any realm due to intense compassion. All we are saying is that there is an Imagelessness accessible in Formless meditation. If this is practically the same thing as said by Adwaitees, we say to them yes but I am going to go back out from it into a Realm and conduct Enlightened Activity.

    On the Tibetan side, Taranatha, Dolpapa, and H. H. 3rd Karmapa in Luminous Heart are thought of as further bastions in a "minority trend".




    Quote Citta Matra school, which seems to insist that the mind must keep something going and changing from time to time.

    That doesn't sound so different if the outer world does not arise from perceptions of the mind, and if anything created by the "Creator" is not absolute then there isn't a role for mind, what is being 'kept going'?
    Sakara. If the form or mind terminology is confusing, call it Time.

    He who knows what Time itself dissolves into knows the Vedas.

    I have no idea if that is what it says for example if we crack open the thesis, but, that is usually how I take the difference between One and Zero.

    One has divisions, moments of time, and zero does not.

    The Point has zero dimension.

    There are terms for the Point, perceived everywhere, found nowhere, which alone has Infinite Extension and Permanent Duration, which is normally not even represented in its bounding plane of manifestation and reflection, the Circle.

    In original Theosophy:

    Prabhavapyaya (prabhavāpyaya) is a Sanskrit term formed by two words: prabhava (प्रभव) meaning "source" or "origin"; and apyaya (अप्यय) can be translated as "cessation" or "dissolution".[1] Thus, the compund term means "the orignal source and place of dissolution".

    In Stanza I, verse 8, Mme. Blavatsky translates this term as "the One Form of Existence", that from which the cosmos originates and into which it dissolves back:

    The tendency of modern thought is to recur to the archaic idea of a homogeneous basis for apparently widely different things—heterogeneity developed from homogeneity. . . . The Secret Doctrine carries this idea into the region of metaphysics and postulates a “One Form of Existence” as the basis and source of all things. But perhaps the phrase, the “One Form of Existence,” is not altogether correct. The Sanskrit word is Prabhavapyaya, “the place, or rather plane, whence emerges the origination, and into which is the resolution of all things,” says a commentator. . . . It is, in its secondary stage, the Svâbhâvat of the Buddhist philosopher, the eternal cause and effect, omnipresent yet abstract, the self-existent plastic Essence and the root of all things, viewed in the same dual light as the Vedantin views his Parabrahm and Mulaprakriti, the one under two aspects.


    According to David Reigle:

    The word prabhavāpyaya is found in the fourth verse of the cosmogony account derived from the original Purāṇa-saṃhitā, as may be seen in the September 1 (2012) posting: Creation Stories: The Cosmogony Account from the Purāṇas, Part 2. “In the Beginning” as Derived from the Original Purāṇa-saṃhitā. This verse is:

    anādy-antam ajaṃ sūkṣmaṃ tri-guṇaṃ prabhavāpyayam |

    asāmpratam avijñeyaṃ brahmāgre samavarttata || 4.20 ||


    also:

    A synonym for Brahman-pradhana.


    Zero or Laya still exists during the times when Realms appear strewn over it.

    Laya Points are more like a "chemical condition" than a mathematical point.

    The worlds are not built upon, neither over, nor in the Laya Centres. They are for the motion of Fohat.


    Complete Stoppage is equivalent to Bagalamukhi who is Pitambara as we recently found in Buddhakapala Tantra.

    There didn't seem to be much doubt that Parameswara was involved.

    Adi Sankara also held the same belief called "Illusionist", that the absolute mind was unchanging eternal, refuting a common popular view that it changes with time. And so, while, in his personal opinion, he had refuted Buddhism by debating some of its members, he never met anyone from Nirakara Yogacara.


    I am not sure if I can speak much about the competing view or represent it fairly. But I am fairly comfortable that at least in certain streams of Buddhist, Shakta, and Shaivite yoga, there is some amount of agreement about a No or Zero Time condition.

    In having said that, I am also saying that the simple fact in nature that this no or zero is the Truth is useless without the Image or Svasamvedana, Circle, or Ouruborous, etc., being of divine inspiration rather than artificially assembled.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Much more soupy than space, in my case.

    I try to keep reminding myself about this palpable liquidy-ness.

    It sounds kind of important in a way that I have been weak on.



    Quote It has happened once again, completely different imagery, a very concrete, "real" feeling dream followed by a very non-corporeal shaking. My feeling is that this is being taught/is happening for a reason, and I'm just not figuring it out.

    The closer to concrete and real dream, but in some other place, sounds to me like what I would call a projection of Mayavi Rupa descending through the planes, and so i.e. you might even cross into the physical world.


    If you were, so to speak, "stuck" in the Linga Sarira or astral body, it would be more like the thing you described as projecting when you were young.

    It would be difficult to say a reason for the weird combination...my guess is that things are mostly either for the gaining of an ability, or communication.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Tagore says that the Agni Yajna cult's fire was spread from the Sita River (Oxus or Jaxartes) to South India.
    Okay, those are to the West, due north of the Helmand. They go through the Kyzyl Kum and Kara Kum deserts. Sounds like everybody knows the Sita river goes through a desert. The Helmand ends in the desert instead of going to the sea.

    He probably puts it there because the Aryan invasion came from near there, or near Herat, the Aryans were Persians. There were outposts of Harappa in Afghanistan for mining, so stuff around there is very old.

    Quote And so if he was active around the height of the Mahasiddha era or ca. 1,000, at that time he has landed in the philosophy disputes among the schools of Buddhism.
    The philosophy disputes were in part because of the collapse of the Buddhist world. Khotan falls in 1003, Srivijaya and Pala also fall around then. Mahmud of Ghazni invades the Purushpur and the Sindh.

    Quote Sakara. If the form or mind terminology is confusing, call it Time.
    I'm not familiar with this term.

    Quote He who knows what Time itself dissolves into knows the Vedas.

    I have no idea if that is what it says for example if we crack open the thesis, but, that is usually how I take the difference between One and Zero.

    One has divisions, moments of time, and zero does not.

    The Point has zero dimension.

    There are terms for the Point, perceived everywhere, found nowhere, which alone has Infinite Extension and Permanent Duration, which is normally not even represented in its bounding plane of manifestation and reflection, the Circle.
    If taken as dimensions, maybe. Otherwise, zero is the origin. Or it is the identity element, or a whole lot of other things. It turns out there is a thing called "Pointless topology" in which spaces and systems are put together without any points, points then are not fundamental, they are derived. Or they could be complicated, strings, branes, in String Theory, where a point can be several dimensions rolled up.

    Quote Zero or Laya still exists during the times when Realms appear strewn over it.

    Laya Points are more like a "chemical condition" than a mathematical point.

    The worlds are not built upon, neither over, nor in the Laya Centres. They are for the motion of Fohat.
    Interesting reference to mathematics in her stuff. Not sure zero point or zero line is math, it's probably physics.

    Quote I am not sure if I can speak much about the competing view or represent it fairly. But I am fairly comfortable that at least in certain streams of Buddhist, Shakta, and Shaivite yoga, there is some amount of agreement about a No or Zero Time condition.
    Being from a math/physics background, if there is no time then there is no space either. The Big Bang arises from a point, it creates both time and space as it explodes.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote
    Quote Much more soupy than space, in my case.
    I try to keep reminding myself about this palpable liquidy-ness.

    It sounds kind of important in a way that I have been weak on.
    I do believe in the doctrine that the teachings are tailored to the student. For me, there are very different liquid and space states. The liquid gets used to handle transitions is something I had talked about.

    But in this case, the liquid was just that I was dissolving, and I happened at the time of dissolving to have a lot of lightning, so along with the rest of me the lightning also dissolved -- into a liquid. It was my first experience with reversing the dreaming and shaking states, I've done it in very much more mundane fashion once since then. I'm really not sure what I am learning with it, unless it just puts lots of different consciousness states on a par with each other or something. I had thought I was learning all this because one can go places using dreams and then sort of materialize in them in shaking. So maybe this was a place or something. Where everything was liquid.

    Quote ...you might even cross into the physical world.
    This is what I was thinking, too.

    Quote It would be difficult to say a reason for the weird combination...my guess is that things are mostly either for the gaining of an ability, or communication.
    So I guess I stay tuned. It really is a weird feeling.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The philosophy disputes were in part because of the collapse of the Buddhist world. Khotan falls in 1003, Srivijaya and Pala also fall around then. Mahmud of Ghazni invades the Purushpur and the Sindh.

    I am trying to pick my way through the thesis and it is very difficult.

    Reading between the lines, there evidently was a kind of collective challenge to...I am not exactly sure who to call them...but those teachers who were in the position of why anyone should pay attention to Prajnaparamita Sutra out of the bevy of extant Sutras.

    Ratnakarasanti seems to be ripping at a Nirakara tendency to dismiss The Illusion along with the Sakara position that cognitive objects are real.

    He contends that Luminosity is real, which is Prajnaparamita--Prakasa.

    “luminosity” (prakāśa), which should be distinguished from “lucidity” (prabhāsvaratā)

    He molds her into a Hetu or Cause which is the same way we have portrayed Vajrasattva and thereby placed him at the *beginning* of a Pancha Jina, rather than at the end or above them as if he were the discovered or accumulated King, or crown of them.


    For Ratnākaraśānti, Prajñāpāramitā is a proper topic to be investigated, since
    Prajñāpāramitā can be recognized by reflexive awareness (svasaṃvedana), but
    cannot be found (avidita) by ordinary consciousness (citta) with a grasper and
    grasped.


    That is the exact statement of original Theosophy, at least with respect to Paramartha, and so the pro-Sutra argument is then to say, well, this Prajnaparamita is equivalent to Paramartha.

    And so he is strongly pushing her as a path, a sadhana, Hetu Phala.

    Given that we can see he was an adept of Hevajra Tantra, it is pretty easy to get where he is coming from. Haribhadra is not really known for any tantric works.

    However he is virtually unknown in Tibet and the main Prajnaparamita commentary is from Haribhadra.

    In part he is saying Prajnaparamita is the Path and the Path is Prajnaparamita, identity, as experience, which is of course a tantric view underpinning the Sutra.

    He took time to define the Vastus or "things" such as the Skandhas, Dhatus, and Ayatanas as nothing new because they are already in the Abhidharma, and, from there, goes on to argue that if the Sutra has things in it that are not new, what is its point, purpose? And that is how Prajnaparamita comes around as a type of immanent deity. But he does not use that word, it is just an argument and conclusion, so, it is not really a tantric exposition. But it is like he has injected tantra already into people who do not realize they are doing it.




    Quote Sakara. If the form or mind terminology is confusing, call it Time.

    I'm not familiar with this term.
    It is...sticky because there are differentiations or gradations, such as Sakara Madhyamika and Sakara Yogacara...but, to present it in the way it seems to come out here:


    The implication of this
    characterization in the context of the MPS/MAv is that propounding “everything” to
    exist means propounding both luminosity and cognitive images to be real—as
    opposed to Ratnākaraśānti’s position which holds only luminosity to be real. Hence,
    this MPS/MAv “everything exists” position likely refers to a SākāravādinMādhyamika. Given that this “everything exists” ultimate position cannot be
    differentiated from the ultimate position that Prajñākaragupta holds, we cannot
    exclude Prajñākaragupta from being considered a representative of SākāravādinMādhyamika in Ratnākaraśānti’s particular way of classifying schools.




    Quote Being from a math/physics background, if there is no time then there is no space either. The Big Bang arises from a point, it creates both time and space as it explodes.
    Yes, if that is what happens.

    Steady State or Electric Universe has quite a few good posts on here. Again, it is something I have no need to bitterly argue about, but, it may still be open for question. Einstein said "if there is an ether, I am wrong".

    Relativity, perhaps, is a 99% accurate good lead which is overpowered by Quantum events that are not understood.

    From what I recall, the Sun "uses" the Imaginary Number i to emit photons, whereas the most basic cells in order to absorb oxygen use Quantum Tunneling.

    The Nodes of the Moon are the most powerful Grahas and they are not even objects.

    In the Yogacara perspective, once it is realized this Zero is kind of sacred, not much is really said about it because the answer is silence, and then it is like having Prajnaparamita blow one flat and one enters the Nirvritti. In other words just meditates the state.

    Sadhanas often refer to the End of Time, Pralaya Sannibha and other synonyms, according to Koothoomi which means direct fire from our Central Sun which is in Hercules then described as Ananta spewing venom throughout the world and I guess matter in its active condition will be finished.

    According to Sivekshin this Varuni or Hellfire is Dense Dark Light.

    So it will say a deity is engulfed in a blaze like the fire at the end of time thus acknowledging the Pralaya or Nirvrtti.

    Bagalamukhi is personally defined as a complete stoppage of mental formations and subtle wind; paralysis; stambhana; the use of her Hercules-like club. Crane Face.

    Zero Heat is defined as the cessation of all molecular activity. I do not know if this is in some way actually possible, i. e. Heat Death, or only predictable.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    ...you might even cross into the physical world.

    This is what I was thinking, too.


    So I guess I stay tuned. It really is a weird feeling.

    I bet it is.

    With a little more retrospection, I might say I have a similar sensation or experience to the things you are talking about, with the liquid known as Dew.

    Perhaps even Fog and Dew.

    That would be in a subtle mental way, I suppose, compared to physically, nothing much more than "sea waves", in a similar way to what felt like a Needle pulling a Thread with Sheaths relatively recently.

    There have been people who accidentally and unintentionally "dropped" into the physical world, such as the lady who was seen "haunting" a house until she showed up to buy it.

    Being able to do that at will is another story.

    Being able to do it into Kama Loka and Akanistha another still.

    In the terms of Kama Loka only the two lowest planes have anything to do with our world. If the second plane is "governed" by Indra, when he is there, if he is successful, it is, so to speak, always mastered by Tvastr or Vulcan. From there, to our world, in the terms of original Theosophy, are a plane of Prana or Jiva, and one of Linga Sarira or astral double or image of this world.

    If I look in Shakta terms, this plane of Prana appears to be that of Sri Nagara and Tripura Sundari, so then when a Murti such as Bhuvaneshvari has her toe on the Sri Yantra, then she has also the Mother nature of a higher plane free in space and so forth, such deities eventually understood as Prakriti and Mula Prakriti or homogenized matter which can enter a zero or passive condition. Whether by gravity, loss of heat, radiation by dark energy, or what method it means physically, is hard for me to say.


    Theosophy is relatively close in that Space--Akash and Matter--Prakriti are identities:

    Akâsa—of which Ether is the grossest form—the fifth universal Cosmic Principle (to which corresponds and from which proceeds human Manas).

    This principle is sometimes referred to as primordial or cosmic substance, which is the vehicle of the Divine Thought, or Cosmic Ideation. It is the higher aspect of the manifested cosmic matter or Prakriti:

    The Tibetan esoteric Buddhist doctrine teaches that Prakriti is cosmic matter, out of which all visible forms are produced; and Akâsa that same cosmic matter—but still more imponderable, its spirit, as it were, “Prakriti” being the body or substance, and Akâsa-Sakti its soul or energy.

    Akâsa, then, is Pradhâna in another form. . . . It is, as said, the noumenon of the seven-fold differentiated Prakriti.
    After a Maha-pralaya Akasha is "resolved back again into the primary state of abstract potential objectivity" (mulaprakriti). When the manvantaric impulse re-awakens and Akasha is evolved, it becomes the upadhi of the cosmic ideation.


    It perhaps may be more frequently said that Prakriti is the root from which arises Akash and the Mahabhuts, but, the first Prakriti and Akash are basically the same either way.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Yes, if that is what happens.

    Steady State or Electric Universe has quite a few good posts on here. Again, it is something I have no need to bitterly argue about, but, it may still be open for question. Einstein said "if there is an ether, I am wrong".
    Neither has much credibility among physicists.

    Quote Relativity, perhaps, is a 99% accurate good lead which is overpowered by Quantum events that are not understood.
    Relativity is much more than 99% accurate, and is not overpowered by quantum events. Yes, there are quantum events that are not understood.

    Quote From what I recall, the Sun "uses" the Imaginary Number i to emit photons, whereas the most basic cells in order to absorb oxygen use Quantum Tunneling.
    The latter statement may be true, there is thought to be also some tunneling involved with some enzymatic processes by some scientists. I don't even know what it would mean to "use the number i to emit photons". i is the square root of -1, it is used symbolically for complex numbers, but they can also be generated as just taking a two dimensional field with certain properties, as can the quaternions, which use i, j, and k. The Schroedinger equation is a complex equation, the number i shows up in it. Maybe that's where something like that could have come from. But it doesn't mean anything.

    Quote Zero Heat is defined as the cessation of all molecular activity. I do not know if this is in some way actually possible, i. e. Heat Death, or only predictable.
    Meaning, I guess, absolute zero (0 degrees Kelvin). It was defined that way but quantum mechanics does not allow that state to exist (same reason as quantum tunneling) so there is something called the lambda-line for helium (which is the only thing liquid near there) where crossing it actually sees the molecular activity increase in a very strange way, causing what are called superfluids -- macroscopic fluids of liquid helium which act as a single or small number of quantum particles. Since those discoveries, other materials have been found to exhibit superfluidity at higher temperatures, they are a big research area.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote With a little more retrospection, I might say I have a similar sensation or experience to the things you are talking about, with the liquid known as Dew.

    Perhaps even Fog and Dew.

    That would be in a subtle mental way, I suppose, compared to physically, nothing much more than "sea waves", in a similar way to what felt like a Needle pulling a Thread with Sheaths relatively recently.
    I'm trying to imagine what it would be like if the state had been replaced by dew. That brings up 'images' of bleeding into the breeze, and of the rainbow drops. Not sure this is what you meant.

    Quote Being able to do that at will is another story.
    So far, being able to do anything at will has been limited to using some will to bring the dreams into shaking, and to being forced to do something in response to direct consequences. I'm not very good at the 'at will' stuff yet.

    Quote ...such deities eventually understood as Prakriti and Mula Prakriti or homogenized matter which can enter a zero or passive condition. Whether by gravity, loss of heat, radiation by dark energy, or what method it means physically, is hard for me to say.
    I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why such pre-matter or root-matter is conceived of as having a zero condition. That's certainly not an equilibrium condition in this universe.

    Quote After a Maha-pralaya Akasha is "resolved back again into the primary state of abstract potential objectivity" (mulaprakriti). When the manvantaric impulse re-awakens and Akasha is evolved, it becomes the upadhi of the cosmic ideation.
    This is where it is given meaning, "primary state of abstract potential objectivity". Why would that be associated with zero energy?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Neither has much credibility among physicists.

    No, they don't, but see for example Wade Frazier's thread on here.

    It is a difficult thing which usually leads to bashing, and, I think, is the dirty truth behind the French Revolution.

    The outer path of original Theosophy is a weapon against two things: religious dogmatism, such as the 1879 Papal Bull about the Johannite Heresy, and materialistic science, which was already in sway.

    Dead Souls Materialism is a school of thought which evidently plucked Newton's Tensor Calculus and had vested interests emplace it in European universities contra the school of Leibiniz.

    We also have on here the original Maxwell Quarternion Equations (Tesla science) which have been "simplified" to four tensors (Bell science).

    What is terrifying is that in the math and science training I had, yes, there was a total sense that "I learned this calculus, so all the other competing ideas are nonsense".

    The ideas of tectonic plates as rising pegs, and the non-Big Bang or Steady State Universe, can be found to still be institutionally oppressed in a way that is much more overbearing than a debate process.

    The Theosophical statement is that this oppression began with Aristotle and has historical continuity from there.

    Newton was a Natural Scientist who valued Alchemy--which seems like it probably originally was the European equivalent of the secret doctrine of tantra--and astrology, or intelligences in nature, or pantheism.

    If we might say the original French Revolution was "legitimate"--i. e. an attack against the government--but turned into a fracas, the Terror, its architect Maxillillien Robespierre then warned that there was yet something else beyond him which then he was terrified of. It was English in origin and more connected to some of the Encyclopedists; vested interests with a hand in shaping science and history.





    Quote I don't even know what it would mean to "use the number i to emit photons". i is the square root of -1, it is used symbolically for complex numbers, but they can also be generated as just taking a two dimensional field with certain properties, as can the quaternions, which use i, j, and k. The Schroedinger equation is a complex equation, the number i shows up in it. Maybe that's where something like that could have come from. But it doesn't mean anything.

    No, not the way I said it. However it simply appears in a solution step of a particular equation. It is not that "i" just says "Hi, I'm i", but the solution is balanced by dividing both sides of the equation by some type of function; or, rather, it is like multiplying both sides by x/x, and then when you simplify the left side, you get i as a factor.

    I cannot remember exactly what the mechanical question or problem was, but, I am pretty sure it was along the lines of converting fusion energy to visible radiation. Possibly taking into account polarization.

    All I am getting at is that there can be laws or math which may not be fully explained, and that things that are believed explained are not necessarily completely so.

    For instance I might suggest that Ether Drift experiments are not asking the right question towards the Ether of metaphysics.

    How does an ideal Foucault Pendulum work?



    Quote Since those discoveries, other materials have been found to exhibit superfluidity at higher temperatures, they are a big research area.
    So Entropy ceases to be dominant at this threshhold. Too much material resistance against fading out.

    What about spontaneous neutron decay? In which case the Helium, etc., is no longer there.

    The worst one is False Vacuum Collapse, from which as I recall, there is a solvable mathematical entity whereby if the universe is found to be false, the whole thing instantly vanishes with no trace.

    How could we in any way define or limit Potential Energy?



    Occultly, physical ether would correspond to what we call Akash which is really the Cosmic or Mental Plane above the Kama Loka. It has a nature that is self-luminous and is synonymous with Prakrti. And this is Space.

    From the physical view, we would probably say, well, space is pretty doggone dark unless it is occupied by something radiant.

    What color is Dark Matter or Dark Energy? The stuff that is twenty times more powerful than the observed baryonic or star system matter.

    Time is quantized by the Planck scale at around 10^-34 seconds, which would correspond to the Yogacara view that Time is the apparent succession of a series of static states.


    HPB did not really give out a particularly detailed exposition of Buddhism, aside from talking about Yogacara and then making the Three Natures a main part of her Secret Doctrine and actually doing a decent job with these. Aside from the inflections of this or that school of it, Yogacara can be found beginning in Sandhinirmocana Sutra ca. 150. Thereafter, Asanga and Vasubandhu re-vitalized it in the 300s, according to legend by inspiration from Maitreya. And so it would be correct to say this doctrine has been rolling around on a sutra basis for quite awhile, and why HPB would refer to an esoteric or non-public Book of Maitreya.

    There turn out to be patterns in many of the subjects that come up.

    Similarly, here again, I was simply unaware of the significance of the author of the Vajra Tara sadhana which the Sadhanamala text is almost "about".

    He is also in the middle of the original textual tradition. Prajnaparamita as he is discussing it is voluminous and some of the points are difficult. But there is something else.

    Lankavatara Sutra may appear to contradict the following and I am not going to deal with that right now. But a great deal of what I or we mean by Yogacara--without disputing its technical qualifier or sub-species--is more simply based in
    Srimaladevi Simhanada Sutra.

    A complete Sanskrit original is no longer extant, but extensive quotations are found in the Sanskrit text of the Ratnagotravibhāga as well as some recently discovered fragments conserved in the Schøyen Collection.

    The Śrīmālādevī Siṃhanāda Sūtra was translated to Chinese in 436 CE by Guṇabhadra (394-468).

    Brian Edward Brown, a specialist in Buddha-nature doctrines, writes that the composition of the Śrīmālādevī Siṃhanāda Sūtra occurred during the Īkṣvāku Dynasty in the 3rd century CE as a product of the Caitika schools of the Mahāsāṃghikas. Alex Wayman has outlined eleven points of complete agreement between the Mahāsāṃghikas and the Śrīmālā, along with four major arguments for this association. Anthony Barber also associates the earlier development of the Tathāgatagarbha Sūtra with the Mahāsāṃghikas, and concludes that the Mahāsāṃghikas of the Āndhra region were responsible for the inception of the Buddha-nature doctrine. In the 6th century CE, Paramārtha wrote that the Mahāsāṃghikas revere the sūtras that teach the Buddha-nature doctrine.

    Translation of the Simhanada Sutra



    This Sutra is a major basis for the almost-as-old
    RGV. The text was originally composed in Sanskrit, likely between the middle of the third century and no later than 433 CE. Authorship is uncertain, the Tibetan tradition states it was taught by the Bodhisattva Maitreya and transmitted via Asanga, while the Chinese tradition states it was written by a certain Sāramati. Modern scholarship favors Sāramati. [or Sthiramati]

    The RGV itself has very little commentarial evidence or evident history for many centuries, even though it was spread far and wide.

    Mathes relates a version of the traditional textual transmission of the RGV by Maitripada (also called "Maitrīpa", ca. 1007-ca.1085), the disciple of Naropa and the guru of Marpa Lotsawa, and proffers his critical analysis that Maitripada's teachers Jñanasrimitra (980-1040) of Vikramashila and Ratnākaraśānti must have had access to the RGV, RGVV and/or their extracts:

    Tradition has it that the Dharmadharmatāvibhaga and the Ratnagotravibhāga were rediscovered and taught by Maitrīpa, but Maitrīpa's teacher at Vikramashila, Jñānaśrīmitra (ca. 980-1040), must have already known these two works when he composed his Sākārasiddhiśāstra and Sākārasamgraha. Ratnākaraśānti, another teacher of Maitrīpa, also quotes the Ratnagotravibhāga in the Sūtrasamuccayabhāṣya. Maitrīpa passed the Dharmadharmatāvibhaga and the Ratnagotravibhāga on to *Ānandakīrti and Sajjana.


    So Ratnakarasanti was is the position of a general audience who may have been resistant to Prajnaparamita to begin with, and so probably were not much informed about how RGV might work. They resisted terminology such as a possible "fourth kaya".


    The principal subject matter of this treatise [RGV] is the special theory of Dhatu (fundamental element) of the Absolute (Tathagata-garbha = essence of Buddha)...

    If Dhatu is a simple "word substitution" for Hindu Atma, then, the principal subject is teaching what it means differently.

    Both the Śrīmālādevī Siṃhanāda Sūtra and the Ratnagotravibhāga enunciate the idea that the buddha-nature is possessed of four transcendental qualities:

    Permanence

    Bliss

    Self

    Purity

    The buddha-nature is ultimately identifiable as the dharmakāya. These elevated qualities make of the Buddha one to whom devotion and adoration could be given...

    Tibetan Dzogchen commentaries describe the text in terms of five chapters that distill seven 'diamond points' (vajrapada):

    'Buddha' (Wylie: sangs-rgyas)
    'Dharma' (Wylie: chos)
    'Sangha'
    'Essence' (Sanskrit: dhātu; Wylie: khams)
    'Awakened' (Sanskrit: bodhi; Wylie: byañ-chub)
    'Qualities' (Sanskrit: guna; Wylie: yon-tan)
    'Activities' (Sanskrit: karman; Wylie: phyin-las' )


    Almost anyone can recognize those as the Five Families with the addition of Dhatu and Bodhi.

    It is "the root of all these sadhanas" and therefor why the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment are such a powerful corresponding retinue. When you cross this sutra definition with that tantric one, you have everything boiled down.


    What happens with the Yogacara Three Natures is that there is a major body of teachings all bounded within Parikalpita, or the first nature, mostly concerned with emptiness and non-ego, and then the second nature which mostly concerns Suchness only has a narrow bandwidth of subtle teachings.

    Vajrayana is the path of ceasing to revolve between the Two Truths, Conventional and Ultimate. From the Ratnakarasanti thesis on the role of Suchness:

    Here, the transformation of the path refers to the bodhisattva path, which is
    transmundane during the meditation sessions, but mundane in the post-meditation
    practice of the pāramitās and so on. Whereas the first transformation correlated to
    seeing the dependent nature’s emptiness of the imagined nature in order to counteract
    the negativities which might be connected with the achievement of the path of seeing,
    this transformation appears to be a result of the path of cultivation. On the path to
    buddhahood, the bodhisattva alternates between transmundane and mundane
    awareness, but in buddhahood there is no longer any alternation from mundane to
    transmundane. A buddha is ceasing to be on a path of mundane learning based on
    antidotes to negativity, but is proceeding as a transmundane path of no more learning
    without any antidotes. This transmundane awareness is sheer luminosity.
    Ratnākaraśānti then describes the third transformation:

    Also, those [buddhas] have the basis that is the suchness of all
    qualities (sarvadharmāḥ). Their transformation of that is the absolute
    purity of all the adventitious obstructions.

    Here, the absolute purity of all adventitious obstructions is the natural purity that is
    suchness. Although Ratnākaraśānti does not state it as a rule of what ceases and what
    continues, we can understand that there is some small final obstruction that ceases
    here—through the Vajra-like concentration (vajropamasamādhi) at the end of the
    bodhisattva grounds—and the absolute, i.e. natural, purity continues on. This is the
    moment where the buddha achieves the body of qualities (dharmakāya), as
    Ratnākaraśānti explains:

    That transformation of (1) the basis of negativity, (2) the basis of the
    path, and (3) the basis of suchness of the buddhas is precisely their
    awakening, precisely their body of qualities (dharmakāya), [understanding the Sanskrit compound to mean] the body, i.e. basis, of the
    qualities of a buddha. It also is called [a buddha’s] natural body
    (svābhāvikakakāya), given that suchness and luminosity remain (avasthāna) absolutely in [their] own nature.


    In the original, his phrase for Suchness and Luminosity is Tathata Prakasa Svarupa Atyanta:

    KTṭ (231): yeyaṃ buddhānāṃ dauṣṭhulyāśrayasya mārgāśrayasya tathatāśrayasya ca parāvṛttiḥ
    saiva teṣāṃ bodhiḥ saiva dharmakāyaḥ, buddhadharmāṇāṃ kāya āśraya iti kṛtvā. svābhāvikaḥ kāya
    ity apy ucyate, tathatāprakāśayoḥ svarūpeṇātyantam avasthānāt.


    Ati Anta, beyond or above endings and boundaries; or, Atyanta, Nothingness of Nothingness.

    In the comparative analysis, other texts give Natural Luminosity as Prakriti Prabhasvara:

    Cf. ASbh (93ar.106) nirantarāśrayaparivṛttividhā 'śaikṣamārgalābhinaḥ| cittāśrayaparivṛttir dharmatā, cittasya prakṛtiprabhāsvarasyāśeṣāgantukopakleśāpagamādyā parivṛttiḥ, tathatāparivṛttir ity arthaḥ| mārgāśrayaparivṛtiḥ pūrvalaukiko mārgo'bhisamayakāle lokottaratvena parivṛtaḥ śaikṣaś cocyate sāvaśeṣakaraṇīyatvāt| yadā tu
    nirhatāśeṣavipakṣo bhavati traidhātukavairāgyāt tadāsya mārgasvabhāvasyāśrayasya paripūrṇā
    parivṛttir vyavasthāpyate| dauṣṭhulyāśrayaparivṛttir ālayavijñānasya sarvakleśānuśayāpagamena parivṛttir veditavyā.


    Does the synonym Prakasa have a scriptural precursor, yes, Lotus Sutra:

    Prakāśa (प्रकाश).—nt. for regular m., light: yad andhakāraṃ tat prakāśam iti saṃjānīṣe, yac ca prakāśaṃ tad andha- kāram iti saṃjānīṣe Saddharmapuṇḍarīka 135.4 f.



    Occult Ether is more of the nature of Root Matter which resembles Space but also Luminosity. And so it is possible that the term Prabhasvara on its own means more "luminous" than it is "Natural Luminosity", i. e. the difference is that it may be something formed into a syllable or object which glows, whereas root matter is formless.

    Prakrti is in Sadhanamala somewhat selectively.

    Vistara Khasarpana and Vistara Tara do Prakrti Parishuddha.

    Prakrtiprabhasvara is used by Manjushri a few times, and is the environment of Advayavajra's (Maitri's) Vajravarahi:

    raktapaṃkārajam aṣṭadalapadmaṃ tadvaraṭake ālikālipariṇatacandra-
    sūryyasampuṭamadhye raktavajrāntargataṃ raktavaṃkāraṃ prakṛtiprabhāsvaraṃ
    paśyet /


    Unmodified prabhasvara is near the beginning:

    akṣararūpaṃ bodhicittasvarūpaṃ prabhāsvaram ātmānaṃ paśyet /

    Arapacana:

    paramārthasārthaṃ punar ātmadehaṃ prabhāsvaraṃ taṃ sakṛd eva paśyet //

    Manjushri:

    mañjuśrīrūpaparāvṛttam amitābhabuddharūpam ātmānaṃ
    dharmadhātusamaṃ prabhāsvaraṃ bhāvayet /

    White Kurukulla:

    oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'habhityanena
    mantreṇa śūnyatāṃ vibhāvya tritattvenādhiṣṭhāya punar ātmāna-
    m ākāśe citralikhitam iva prabhāsvararūpaṃ cintayet /



    With a close look, Prakrti and Prakasa appear to be used in characterizing what I would call the two main practical mantras, Purity mantra and Emptiness mantra, or Svabhava and Sunyata. What holds true in the majority of Sadhanamala practices that have any amount of detail, the Four Brahma Vihara are ported into Voidness; the Purity mantra is said, which is something like "cue for voidness". And then whatever the sadhana is about, is said to begin arising from void.

    When the student adds the second mantra then we are saying that within the practice is found a Jnana or Gnosis, Self Knowledge or Atma Vidya that is direct.

    And so for example, Vistara Tara is going to apply the first mantra as Prakrti Parishuddha; and then for Emptiness mantra, she teaches it as, a rather large word, which ends in Citra Advaita Prakasa Matra Atmaka, as what the experience is like:

    caturbrahmavihārabhāvanānantaraṃ
    sarvadharmaprakṛtipariśuddhatāṃ bhāvayet / sarva
    eva dharmāḥ prakṛtyā svabhāvena pariśuddhā aham api prakṛtipariśuddha
    ityādikam āmukhīkuryāt / imāṃ ca sarvadharmaprakṛtipariśuddhatām
    anena mantreṇādhitiṣṭhet oṃ svabhāvaśuddhāḥ
    sarvadharmāḥ svabhāvaśuddho 'ham iti / yadi prakṛtipariśuddhāḥ
    sarvadharmāḥ kutas tarhi saṃsāram āvahati ? grāhyagrāhakādimalāvṛtatvāt /
    tadvigamopāyaḥ sanmārgabhāvanā,
    tayā sa niruddhaḥ syāt / ataḥ prakṛtipariśuddhāḥ sarvadharmā
    iti siddham / sarvadharmaprakṛtipariśuddhatāṃ vibhāvya
    sarvadharmaśūnyatāṃ vibhāvayet / tatreyaṃ śūnyatā /
    grāhyagrāhakādisakalakalpanāprapañcavañcitacitrādvaitaprakāśamātrātmakaṃ
    sacarācaraṃ viśvam iti cintayet / imām eva
    śūnyatām anenāpi mantreṇādhitiṣṭhet oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako
    'ham iti /


    Shortly after this, Tara's form arises. It could be said that many deities have their own twist on the steps, Brahmavihara, Purity, and Emptiness; here, it is fairly specific. Purification of Prakriti produces natural luminosity.



    Back in the thesis, by "transformation of the Path" it should be understood that the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment are that which is the basis of the Dharma Realm. In other words, I can reverse Smrti into Sati and back out into minor levels and multiple associations, but, the Jewel is a complete unit of this which goes forward and penetrates the Dharma Realm.

    It is this kind of reasoning which leads in tantras alone to postulate other kinds of Kayas or Buddha Bodies, but, these are ultimately aspects and degrees of Dharmakaya.

    There is a fairly well-known principle of Saddharma, which is similar to Sadguna, Supreme Lord having Six Transcendental Attributes.


    Ratnākaraśānti’s description of dharmakāya as “the body of the buddha qualities” (and hence my translation) may seem unfamiliar to readers...

    Among the transformations of the three bases, the first basis being transformed leads
    to the liberation body, which fulfills a buddha’s own benefit, and to the body of
    qualities (dharmakāya)—here a synonym of the natural body (svābhāvikakāya)—
    which allows a buddha to benefit others. The second and third bases appear to
    correlate to the realization of the two inseparable aspects of the established nature,
    namely (2) the transformation of basis of the path, which is the realization of the
    transmundane awareness, i.e. sheer luminosity, and (3) the transformation of basis
    that is suchness, which is the realization of the absolute suchness of everything as
    luminosity. Ratnākaraśānti does not make it explicit here, but these three transformations also echo the threefold
    ultimate reality discussed above and his interpretation of the three types of sarvajñatā in the AA,
    namely sarvajñatā, mārgajñatā, and sarvākārajñatā.


    Tara's light is described as endowing one with Buddha Qualities. These may for example have lists of their own, and then in the tantras we see it means All Families Equally, which is Guna, or Jewel Family.

    Ratnakarasanti composed a major sadhana for Tara in Jewel or Ratna Family.


    Suchness involves mantra, wind, and bliss quelling the mind, to which natural luminosity presents itself.

    At that point, Paratantra will still "exist" but it is going to do something not of this world.

    If in the readings they would give us "Lokottara" instead of "transmundane", then correspondingly in Sadhanamala, we would find it in the beginning practice, and then just with Ratnakarasanti's Vajra Tara. But Lokottara is an even older name for "transcendental Buddhist" going back to the various councils and philosophies from the pre-Medieval times when there are hardly any written records.



    Vajra Tara is very in-depth, and, after enumerating the Kleshas such as Raga--Mouth and so on, her sixth principle is

    āyataneṣu vijñeyā hṛdyā nairātmyayoginī //

    she also appears to have the only Agnina:

    agninā—by the fire SB 3.11.30, SB 3.31.17, SB 4.1.21, SB 4.17.10-11
    agninā—by the fire-god SB 5.23.1
    agninā—simply by generating the fire of sacrifice SB 9.14.49


    vicintya vāyupreritāgneyamaṇḍalāgninā upari vajrāgninā

    which does a unique type of

    Vilīna (विलीन).—p. p.

    1) Sticking to, clung or attached to.

    2) Perched or settled on, alighting on.

    3) Contiguous to, in contact with.

    4) Melted, dissolved, liquefied.

    5) Disappeared, vanished.

    6) Dead, perished.

    7) Infused into the mind, imagined.


    ca tat sarvaṃ pariṇataṃ dṛṣṭvā tadbāṣpasparśena praṇavaṃ vajravilīnaṃ

    to attract the Dharmadhatu.


    If she is a Sampatti Vardhani:

    praṇamya tāriṇīṃ bhaktyā sarvasampattivardhanīm /

    in tantric terms this would mean raises the Gauris. Nairatma has Gauris. Nairatma is encountered here. She and the other Kleshas are in normal garb with kartri, kapala, and tiger-skin skirt and are the Yosit which seems to be the only time this is mentioned in the book. But it is a hint for Vajra Ladies of the tantras.

    Another early term for "mind-only" was Vijnapti Matra.

    She and Hevajra Krama Kurukulla share:

    advayavijñaptilakṣaṇāṃ

    and Vijnapti is only otherwise with Alimanmatha Manjushri, who firstly involves:

    śrīherukarūpam ātmanaṃ niṣpādya vijñaptimātraṃ

    which passes through

    nairātmāherukasvabhāvaṃ.


    Vijnapti is in a brief examination of an Object:

    In the beginning of the Vimsatika, Vasubandhu stated his philosophical position as follows: "The three realms (traidhatuka) are vijnapti-matra (perception-only)." As a central point of controversy, the term vijnapti-matra not only was mistreated by Vasubandhu's contemporaries, but also caused trouble for modern scholars. Various renditions of it have been provided, such as "consciousness-only," "ideation-only," "representation-only," "perception-only," etc., but none of them could be of much help without the whole argument being fully articulated. Meanwhile, we need to know only that the term vijnapti literally means "proclamation" or "making known," and that the term matra means "only." As a compound, vijnapti-matra in the present context means "being known or presented [in the consciousness] only." The whole statement means that the entire universe, which consists of the realm of desire (kamadhatu), the realm of form (rupa-dhatu) and the realm of formlessness (arupya-dhatu), are nothing but that which is known or presented within consciousness. "Only" is stressed in order to rule out any external referent or object (artha).

    Mahāyāne traidhātukaṁ vijñaptimātraṁ vyavasthāpyate (Viṁśtikā)

    “In the Mahayana system it has been
    established that those belonging to the
    three worlds are mere representations of
    consciousness.”


    The last question is, "What is the real for Yogacara?" Though the Yogacara says that all are perception-only, ordinary people do not realize this truth. They name the thing which they perceive, and believe that the named or signified exists "out there". For Yogacara, the signified is mistakenly endowed with ontological status, though in fact it is nonexistent. Confined within, all sorts of nonexistent but signified constitute the world-construction of daily discourse. This discursive world is called "imagined" (parikalpita).

    But this "imagined" conceals the reality which needs to be disclosed. As a closed system of consciousness in which the object-like appearance arises, this reality is called "dependent" (paratantra), meaning that the arising of an object depends on the cause and conditions. The "dependent" is the reality, but is defiled and in need of being purified or perfected.

    Only if one is detached from the "imagined" and stays in the state of perception-only (vijnaptimatrata), realizing that all are nothing but vijnapti, is one able to achieve the perfected state (parinispanna).
    Last edited by shaberon; 4th May 2021 at 22:43.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I'm trying to imagine what it would be like if the state had been replaced by dew. That brings up 'images' of bleeding into the breeze, and of the rainbow drops. Not sure this is what you meant.
    No, nothing fancy. Ordinary dewfall. Perhaps related to the alchemical act of Deliquescence. You take a suitable potash, such as Melissa, and leave it out in a ceramic dish and the pure dew suspends the potassium, etc.

    The closest things I have seen to the rainbow lights of the tantras are either externally, or more as simply an effect on an opalescent white moonish or semenish color. I can feel the vibrational motion of how it is supposed to make Bliss Whorl, which kind of leaves me with a blank grey one, "unpainted".

    But I think I can almost relate to the "state" of "being dew" to a minor strength compared to the way you explain liquids.



    Quote So far, being able to do anything at will has been limited to using some will to bring the dreams into shaking, and to being forced to do something in response to direct consequences. I'm not very good at the 'at will' stuff yet.

    Well it also seems that usually you go through a series that leads to a "click" and then it shifts on to something else.

    The fact that you can also identify elements that have stability and continuity is the encouraging part.



    Quote I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why such pre-matter or root-matter is conceived of as having a zero condition. That's certainly not an equilibrium condition in this universe.
    It is due to the Day and Night or Pravrrti and Nirvrrti of Primordial or Cosmic Mind.

    The zero is a rest from creative/formative activity, not an ending of Breath or Primordial Motion which is the Father which is in the One Element or Space which is the Mother. As a simple duality, they remain passive and unmanifest; by sloughing light as their progeny, world systems and beings arise.

    A universe is called a Day and Night of Brahma. When, eventually, such a Brahma "sleeps", the spiritual question is of Parinispanna. If one "has" this, a universal night is reckoned as a non-different experience of supreme bliss, whereas, without it, one lacks the corresponding "vehicle" to exist.

    The corresponding root matter is mental, not physical.

    What we know about the physical Akash is next to nothing. But if we know there is vacuum energy and quantum foam and so forth, we are at least on the track of "nothing" is very pregnant.

    The sixth kind of matter is not even hinted at, although the seventh is pretty close to "atom = highest intellection".

    The principle is not necessarily Buddhist in origin, although it is in application.

    Adi Buddha Nirvrtti as Formless and Pravrtti revealing itself through Fire.

    This is the same standard as in comparing the philosophy of the Theosophical Mahatmas to the Svabhavikas of Nepal.


    Pravrtti and Nirvrtti according to Alex Wayman:

    There seems to be no essential difference between
    Tantricism within the province of Hinduism and that
    within the province of Buddhism. Apart from the
    multifarious accessories, to judge by the essentials,
    Tantricism, both Hindu and Buddhist, lays stress upon
    a theological principle of duality in non-duality. Both
    the schools hold that the ultimate non-dual reality
    possesses two aspects in its fundamental nature, — the
    negative {nivrtti) and the positive (pravrtti), the static
    and the dynamic, — and these two aspects of the reality
    are represented in Hinduism by Siva and Sakti and in
    Buddhism by Prajna and Upaya (or sunyata and
    karuna).

    These conceptions of Prajna and Upaya have
    important ontological and cosmological bearing on the
    four philosophical systems of Nepalese Buddhism. ’
    The Svabhavika school holds that there is no imma-
    terial ultimate truth in the form of the soul substance ;
    matter is the primordial substance from which the
    world proceeds. This matter as the ultimate sub-
    stance has two modes which are called pravrtti and
    nivrtti, action and rest, dynamic and static, concrete
    and abstract. Matter is eternal as a crude mass (how-
    ever infinitely attenuated in nivrtti) and so are the
    powers of matter. These powers are not only active
    but also intelligent. The proper state of existence of
    these powers is the state of nivrtti or rest as the abstrac-
    tion from all phenomena. When these powers pass
    from the state of rest into their causal and transitory
    state of activity the phenomenal world comes into
    existence and it again ceases to exist when the powers
    repass from pravrtti to nivrtti. This nivrtti is the
    Prajna" and the pravrtti is said to be the Upaya.
    Prajna is said to be the abstraction from all effects
    while Upaya is the concretion of all effects or activities.
    In the Aisvarika school these Prajna and Upaya are
    deified as Adi-Prajna and Adi-Buddha and the visible
    world is said to be created from the union of the two.
    According to the Prajnikas ^ Buddha as the principle
    of active power first proceeds from nivrtti or Adi-
    Prajna and then associates with her and from their
    union proceeds the actual visible world. The prin-
    ciple is symbolized as Prajna being first the mother
    and then the wife of the Buddha. ^ The well-known
    triad of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha has often been
    explained as Prajna (Dharma), Upaya (Buddha) and
    the world (Sangha) produced by their union.

    cf. the Hindu Tantric principle of designating the Sahasrara
    (situated in the cerebrum region) to be the abode of Siva and the
    lowest Muladhara-cahra to be the seat of Sakti in the form of an
    electric force, generally known as the Kulakundalini-sakti ; this lower
    region where Sakti resides is generally known as the region of
    Pravrtti while the higher region or the region of pure intellection
    is called the region of Nivrtti — and the Sadhana consists in rousing
    the Sakti, residing in the region of Pravrtti, to unite with the Siva
    residing in the region of Nivrtti; the bliss proceeding from the union
    of Siva and Sakti is the highest religious realization.




    More advanced where the Pancha Krama of Nagarjuna may take some effort:

    (iii) Advaya {non-duality) and Yuganaddha
    (Principle of Union)

    A study of the above speculations on the nature of
    the Bodhicitta will bring it home to us that the central
    point of all the Sadhana of the Tantric Buddhists was
    a principle of union. The synthesis or rather the uni-
    fication of all duality in an absolute unity is the real
    principle of union, which has been termed as Yuganad-
    dha. This principle of Yuganaddha is clearly explain-
    ed in the fifth chapter (Yuganaddha-krama) of the
    Panca-krama. There it is said that when a state of
    unity is reached through the purging of the two
    notions of the creative process (samsara) and absolute
    cessation (nirvrtti), it is called Yuganaddha. When
    the transcendental nature of both phenomenal (sam-
    klesa) and the absolutely purified (vyavadana) realities
    is realized and the two become unified into one, it is
    called the Yuganaddha. Again, when the Yogin is
    able to synthesize the thought-constructions of all cor-
    poreal existence with the notion of the formlessness,
    he can be said to have known the principle of Yuganad-
    dha. Thus the text goes on explaining that the real
    principle of Yuganaddha is the absence of the notion
    of duality as the perceivable (grahya) and the per-
    ceiver (grahaka) and their perfect synthesis in an
    unity ; it is the absence of the notions of eternity and
    limitation and is their synthesis in an unity, — the unity
    of Prajna and Karuna, — the state of all-void {sarva-
    sunyata) through the union of Prajna and Upaya.
    Where there is no notion of extinction with some residu-
    al substratum (sopadhi-sesah) or extinction without any
    residuum (anupadhi-sesah), i.e., no notion of the non-
    essentialness of the dharmas (dharma-nairatmya) or
    of the self (pudgala-nairatmya) — that is what is called
    the Yuganaddha; — for, the very nature of Yuganaddha
    involves its freedom from all kinds of thought-
    constructions. To realize through constant practice
    the truth of both svadhisthana (which is the third
    mnyata as self-establishment or the universalization
    of the self) and the resplendent {prabhasvara, which is
    the fourth or the final stage as sarva-sunya) and then
    to unite them — this is Yuganaddha. To enter into the
    final abode of ‘ thatness ’ in body, word and mind and
    thence again to rise up and turn to the world of
    miseries — that is what is called Yuganaddha. To
    know the nature of samvrti (the provisional truth)
    and the paramartha (the ultimate truth) and then to
    unite them together is real Yuganaddha. Where the
    mind does neither lose itself in the absolute ‘ thatness ’,
    nor does it rise up in the world (of activity) — that
    immutable state of the Yogin is called the state of
    Yuganaddha. Here there is neither affirmation nor
    denial, neither existence nor non-existence, neither
    non-remembering {asmrti = non-subjectivity through
    the absence of the vdsands) nor remembering {smrti),
    neither affection irdga) nor non-affection {ardga),
    neither the cause nor the effect, neither the production
    (utpatti) nor the produced (utpanna), neither purity
    nor impurity, neither anything with form, nor anything
    without form; it is but a synthesis of all these dualities
    — that is what is meant by the principle of Yuga-
    naddha. A Yogin thus placed in Yuganaddha is called
    the omniscient, the seer of the truth, the support of the
    universe; — he has escaped the snare of illusion by
    attaining perfect enlightenment, — he has crossed the
    sea of birth and death, — he has attained non-dual
    knowledge and eternal tranquillity. This in fact is
    perfect enlightenment (buddhatva), — this is what is
    meant by becoming a Vajra-sattva, — this is the way to
    attain all power and wealth. This stage is called the
    absorption in the Vajropama (or thunder-like) medi-
    tation, — the nispanna krama or the absolute state, or
    the absorption in the Mayopama (illusion-like) medita-
    tion, or it is called the non-dual truth (advaya-tattva).


    So when he mentions Sarva Sunya, this is our Parasunya or Fourth Void, which itself is not even clear from a perousal of tantras.



    Quote After a Maha-pralaya Akasha is "resolved back again into the primary state of abstract potential objectivity" (mulaprakriti). When the manvantaric impulse re-awakens and Akasha is evolved, it becomes the upadhi of the cosmic ideation.

    This is where it is given meaning, "primary state of abstract potential objectivity". Why would that be associated with zero energy?
    Is it a semantic confusion for Zero Point Energy?

    No, I don't think the literal zero energy of Heat Death is what we are aiming at. The ether of physical space would be something superior to/evolutive of Plasma.

    Mulaprakriti has infinite potential and I suppose it could be called nothing kinetic.

    Awakening mind is not thought of as having an idea yet. It is a subconscious desire for sound. And so it goes through a subtle awakening before there is a letter (idea), which is a formation in the Akash of the Mental Plane, which establishes the Divine Word and then retreats to its subtle lair.

    In order to make sense, it has to be understood that there is "mental matter" in which to exist. Activity by a mental-only mind causes the physical plane to begin forming out of its rest condition.

    As to the occult secrets of physical matter, I believe we have largely not been given them.

    We have not been given the truth about numbers and cycles.

    Part of the secret of Apas Vajra is that it really is a weapon.

    Now back in original Theosophy, one of the original Chelas explained that when a Mahatma wanted your attention, from about a mile away, there would be a "contact" which was really an electrical jolt about like touching a car battery. And so you would know that in a few minutes, you could find him somewhere.

    Well, if this laukika siddhi were not being used in such a friendly manner, obviously you would be harmed or killed.

    Other things might act like dynamite in the Yellowstone faults or what have you.


    Everything I personally intend with the meaning of zero is more like Zero Point Energy, not zero energy, and I was probably just throwing around a few different things suggestive of zero.

    Even if the once-expected Heat Death is technically impossible, it could perhaps come close enough to make organic life go extinct. But this still has a low chance on the Doomsday scale.


    I believe that matter may be "attenuated" to a mental-only condition which is let drop into chaos or an unformed passive condition by lack of mental activity. It is equivalent to energy and cannot be created or destroyed, only converted.

    Therefor, from the Svabhavika view, an explanation of a Svabhavika Kaya is not terribly difficult.

    In about the same way that "continent" = "container for those capable of taking birth there", most of the occult teaching that concerns "universe" means Sakwala or life-wave of our solar system.

    The Sun is the visible, but not actual, source of it, acting like a transformer and mirror.

    Because the real force is not physical, but consciousness, all the worlds in our system are inhabited by people made of some kind of mental matter. There is a special karma in those of us who are able to be born in the "physical container".

    But here we see the same active and passive principles used for Divine Mind as well as the meditator.
    Last edited by shaberon; 4th May 2021 at 09:17.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Dead Souls Materialism is a school of thought which evidently plucked Newton's Tensor Calculus and had vested interests emplace it in European universities contra the school of Leibiniz.
    What? Newton didn't invent tensor calculus, it was invented almost 200 years later by Ricci (Gregorio Ricci-Curbastro). Newton, Leibniz, and Fermat independently invented differential and integral calculus. In terms of common notation, Leibniz won, because the notation we use nowadays is Leibniz notation.

    Quote We also have on here the original Maxwell Quarternion Equations (Tesla science) which have been "simplified" to four tensors (Bell science).
    Not sure what the references to Tesla and Bell are about here. Maxwell did indeed discover quaternions. Four tensors, and four vectors were first promulgated AFAIK by P.A.M. Dirac. He wrote a whole book in which he redid quantum mechanics in 4 vectors and operators, in the process becoming one of the discoverers of spin. I'm thinking the Bell you're talking about is Bell's Theorem Bell, who did the groundwork for quantum entanglement? Not sure what Tesla has to do with it.

    Quote No, not the way I said it. However it simply appears in a solution step of a particular equation. It is not that "i" just says "Hi, I'm i", but the solution is balanced by dividing both sides of the equation by some type of function; or, rather, it is like multiplying both sides by x/x, and then when you simplify the left side, you get i as a factor.

    I cannot remember exactly what the mechanical question or problem was, but, I am pretty sure it was along the lines of converting fusion energy to visible radiation. Possibly taking into account polarization.
    If it involved polarization then it was a factor in determining the polarization angle of something, multiplication by i rotates things in the complex plane. It's still just a symbol for the base for the algebraic completion of the real numbers (meaning that if you complete real numbers to complex numbers all algebraic equations have a solution).

    Quote All I am getting at is that there can be laws or math which may not be fully explained, and that things that are believed explained are not necessarily completely so.
    In Physics mostly. In math, something is not considered 'true' until it is proven. People have opinions on whether they think it will be proven, but it isn't finished yet if it is not proven.

    Quote So Entropy ceases to be dominant at this threshhold. Too much material resistance against fading out.
    Not sure what you're saying. The lambda line is a quantum effect. It occurs for the same reason as quantum tunneling: The uncertainty principle limits the ability to know the position and momentum of a particle at a single instant. If you know the momentum too well, (because its motion is going to zero) it's position has to get fuzzy.

    Quote What color is Dark Matter or Dark Energy? The stuff that is twenty times more powerful than the observed baryonic or star system matter.

    Time is quantized by the Planck scale at around 10^-34 seconds, which would correspond to the Yogacara view that Time is the apparent succession of a series of static states.
    By definition, dark matter cannot be seen, so its color is moot. 10^-34 is the order of magnitude of Planck's constant, it is the order of magnitude of the uncertainty principle. Things have to be confined in some way for them to have quantized states.

    I have to take a break, I will write more later.

    My Sanskrit book says that the conjunctive 'ca' conjoins the two objects that precede it. The example they use is that "eggs and bacon" using 'ca' is written "eggs bacon ca".

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The worst one is False Vacuum Collapse, from which as I recall, there is a solvable mathematical entity whereby if the universe is found to be false, the whole thing instantly vanishes with no trace.
    It's actually if the false vacuum tunnels to its true equilibrium, but it's both controversial and not probable.

    Quote How could we in any way define or limit Potential Energy?
    For rest mass, Einstein described it with his most famous equation.

    Quote 'Buddha' (Wylie: sangs-rgyas)
    'Dharma' (Wylie: chos)
    'Sangha'
    'Essence' (Sanskrit: dhātu; Wylie: khams)
    'Awakened' (Sanskrit: bodhi; Wylie: byañ-chub)
    'Qualities' (Sanskrit: guna; Wylie: yon-tan)
    'Activities' (Sanskrit: karman; Wylie: phyin-las' )


    Almost anyone can recognize those as the Five Families with the addition of Dhatu and Bodhi.

    It is "the root of all these sadhanas" and therefor why the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment are such a powerful corresponding retinue. When you cross this sutra definition with that tantric one, you have everything boiled down.
    So these are derived from the four qualities of buddha-nature? And from these derive the rest? So one to four to seven to the rest?

    Does the synonym Prakasa have a scriptural precursor, yes, Lotus Sutra:

    Quote Prakāśa (प्रकाश).—nt. for regular m., light: yad andhakāraṃ tat prakāśam iti saṃjānīṣe, yac ca prakāśaṃ tad andha- kāram iti saṃjānīṣe Saddharmapuṇḍarīka 135.4 f.



    Occult Ether is more of the nature of Root Matter which resembles Space but also Luminosity. And so it is possible that the term Prabhasvara on its own means more "luminous" than it is "Natural Luminosity", i. e. the difference is that it may be something formed into a syllable or object which glows, whereas root matter is formless.
    But glows as well? Root matter is formless but luminous?

    Quote Another early term for "mind-only" was Vijnapti Matra.
    I haven't heard this, but you later say this is "perception only".

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote The closest things I have seen to the rainbow lights of the tantras are either externally, or more as simply an effect on an opalescent white moonish or semenish color. I can feel the vibrational motion of how it is supposed to make Bliss Whorl, which kind of leaves me with a blank grey one, "unpainted".

    But I think I can almost relate to the "state" of "being dew" to a minor strength compared to the way you explain liquids.
    The rainbows I see in dew are related to the refraction in a single dewdrop.

    It is due to the Day and Night or Pravrrti and Nirvrrti of Primordial or Cosmic Mind.

    Quote The zero is a rest from creative/formative activity, not an ending of Breath or Primordial Motion which is the Father which is in the One Element or Space which is the Mother. As a simple duality, they remain passive and unmanifest; by sloughing light as their progeny, world systems and beings arise.

    A universe is called a Day and Night of Brahma. When, eventually, such a Brahma "sleeps", the spiritual question is of Parinispanna. If one "has" this, a universal night is reckoned as a non-different experience of supreme bliss, whereas, without it, one lacks the corresponding "vehicle" to exist.

    The corresponding root matter is mental, not physical.

    What we know about the physical Akash is next to nothing. But if we know there is vacuum energy and quantum foam and so forth, we are at least on the track of "nothing" is very pregnant.
    Or a zero that is a fulcrum or balance point, not an absolute zero. Nothing can be very pregnant, if it is the precursor state to some kind of bifurcation or singularity. It isn't a zero energy then, it's some other unstable equilibrium. That's fine, my empty spaces don't need to be empty.

    Is it a semantic confusion for Zero Point Energy?

    No, I don't think the literal zero energy of Heat Death is what we are aiming at. The ether of physical space would be something superior to/evolutive of Plasma.

    Quote Mulaprakriti has infinite potential and I suppose it could be called nothing kinetic.

    Awakening mind is not thought of as having an idea yet. It is a subconscious desire for sound. And so it goes through a subtle awakening before there is a letter (idea), which is a formation in the Akash of the Mental Plane, which establishes the Divine Word and then retreats to its subtle lair.
    This makes more sense, I think.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    The Ratnakarasanti thesis is large and difficult, but, focusing in on some parts, he is saying something that is almost definitively unique, compared to which, anything else can probably be found as a change from.


    In the thesis there are probably thirty pages on attempts to map the schools of thought.

    Ratnakarasanti is really saying that he follows the actual doctrine of Maitreya, Asanga, and Nagarjuna, and that most of the other positions he can describe make some sort of minor mistake.

    The sphere of his debate is something like the "upper half" of a Buddha and how the Ultimate Nature operates along with the Dependent or Paratantra. It is like saying there is a transcendent Svabhavikakaya and Sambhogakaya which works a particular way, and then an emanation of Sambhogakaya and Nirmanakaya into Form which is partially subjected to error. A Buddha is simply unaffected by the error because he sees Forms as Emptiness and Luminosity (Suchness). The fact of him perceiving some error because form is unreal, is part of the unique statement and explanation by Ratnakarasanti. The other schools vary on whether he perceives forms or not, not whether error is involved.

    That is actually pretty close to the Hindu definition of Avatars. Mortals only have 2-3% of divine nature unless they attempt to cultivate it, whereas an Avatar comes into the world fully conscious of 90% divine nature, i. e. he still retains a bit of Maya simply due to Contact or limitation in Form.

    The debate is mostly in the upper stages of the Path wherein a Bodhisattva gains what keeps being translated as "transmundane awareness".

    He explains these by paraphrasing a passage in the Avikalpapraveśadhāraṇī as follows:

    When [a bodhisattva] is on the ground of non-appearance, on the
    grounds with the noble motivation of purification (Śuddhi), on the
    special grounds, and in the Vajra-like concentration, [it is said:]
    [It is through transmundane awareness that] he sees
    everything (sarvadhārmā) as having a homogenous
    surface like space (akāśasamatala). [But in the postmeditation] it is through pure mundane awareness (dag
    pa ’jig rten pa’i ye shes)
    that he sees everything as
    being like the eight similes, [i.e.] illusion [and so on].

    In this [passage], [the term] pure mundane awareness [refers to] the
    awareness that is pure, due to delimiting suchness, and that is
    mundane, insofar as [it is] an error (’khrul ba nyid kyis; bhrāntatvena).


    So while it was perhaps radical to say that Buddha retains some bit of mundane error, he is also trying to promote Prajnaparamita as the path of luminosity, and so, i. e. the main motivation for someone to pursue the subject and practice.


    “Prajñāpāramitā is of two types, transmundane and pure mundane. The bodhisattva, who is established
    (pratiṣṭhita) in the nonconceptual source, sees all entities as uniform [like] space, through awareness
    [which is] not distinguished with regard to [objects] to be known. Through [the cognition] attained
    after that (tatpṛṣṭhalabdha), he sees all entities as magical illusions (māyā), mirages (marīci), dreams
    (svapna), light reflections (pratibhāsa), echoes, image reflections (pratibimba), moons in water,
    magical creations (nirmita). For this reason, regarding the transmundane awareness, [in the root text]
    he says space and so on. Regarding the pure mundane [awareness], he says what and so on.”


    Here is the first way I find "transmundane" translated:

    Ratnākaraśānti is explaining the three natures according to the
    dichotomy between the imaginary grasper and grasped, which do not exist in reality,
    and the imagination’s luminous nature, which does exist. However, we will see that
    he is setting up a contrast between the imagination of the unreal, which is a
    malfunctioning, and sheer luminosity, which he will explain below as a natural
    functioning. That is to say, the imagination of the unreal, which appears as/with the
    false cognitive images of grasper and grasped due to an error, is a term that
    describes the dependent nature’s role in the erroneous production of cognitive images
    which are not separate from its luminous nature. Since the imagination of the unreal
    is only appearing in that manner by force of an error, it is just a false cognition.
    However, that is just the unreal nature. That is to say, in confusion, the dependent
    nature takes on the appearance of the cognitive image of a grasper and a grasped,
    which he explains further as follows:

    For this very reason, the cognitive image (rnam pa; ākāra) is called
    the sign of deviation [or] the sign of proliferation (prapañcanimitta),
    because it is the object (ālambana) in/of error.
    It is also called the
    sign of the two (dvaya), because it is the [false] appearance
    (pratirūpaka) of the two [i.e. the grasped and grasper].

    Thus, in Ratnākaraśānti’s Nirākāravādin system, the presence of cognitive images
    themselves are just signs of deviation from the inherent nature and signs of erroneous
    proliferation. The two aspects of the grasper and grasped are what proliferates into
    manifold false appearances. That these signs are not the inherent nature of phenomena
    is proven, for Ratnākaraśānti, through their dissolution within a yogi’s transmundane
    awareness, which he explains as follows:

    All signs of the two vanish in the transmundane awareness (jñāna).

    Hence, that [transmundane awareness] is called unerroroneous (abhrānta) and an accurate awareness. For this very reason also, that [transmundane awareness] is the established (pariniṣpanna) nature,
    since, by actualizing (pariniṣpatti) nonconfusion (aviparyāsa), the
    actualization of it [becomes] the state of nonerror (abhrantatā).
    As for Suchness, [it is also] the established nature, since, by actualizing
    nondeviation (avikāra), the actualization in it (tasyām) [becomes] the
    state free of deviation (nirvikāra).


    So what is generally translated as Gnosis in the Sarma, Jnana, is the Parinispanna of Yogacara. Properly employed, all it would ever perceive is Suchness.





    In Ratnākaraśānti’s system, during the meditation periods, a bodhisattva’s
    transmundane awareness has no cognitive images and hence, he has the direct
    perception of the ultimate reality qua object that is Suchness. However, during the
    post-meditation periods, a bodhisattva’s awareness has cognitive images—produced
    by the imagination of the unreal [Parikalpita] in error—and hence, his post-meditative awareness is
    not transmundane, but rather a pure mundane awareness. Here, Ratnākaraśānti is
    introducing a distinction between the two aspects of a bodhisattva’s awareness. It is
    mundane, because it is an error that produces cognitive images, which, for
    Ratnākaraśānti, is what it means to perceive conventional reality as illusions and so
    on during the post-meditation periods. But, the bodhisattva’s awareness is also pure,
    because, due to the after-effect of the transmundane awareness, the bodhisattva sees
    the Suchness of these cognitive images and knows them to be false.


    His tradition is Nirakara which has adherents or followers in "certain streams" of both Yogacara and Madhyamika.

    The awareness (shes pa; jñāna) on [all these] grounds are both
    transformations of the basis (gnas gyur pa; āśrayaparāvṛtti) and
    different ripenings [of the fruits of previous actions] (mi ’dra bar smin
    pa; vipāka<visadṛśaḥ pāka). Thus, there are two awarenesses, [i.e.] the
    mundane awareness and the transmundane awareness. Under the
    [rubric of] mundane awareness, there is the impure mundane awareness and the pure mundane awareness. This system is Nirākāra.



    As for a noble bodhisattva, during the meditation sessions, he perceives sheer
    luminosity through transmundane awareness, but during the post-meditation periods
    he perceives cognitive images as Suchness through pure mundane awareness. He
    always has access to the transmundane awareness, but must re-charge that awareness
    in meditation sessions so that he can maintain the pure mundane awareness during the
    post-meditation.


    . In that explanation, various bodhisattvas’
    transmundane and pure mundane awarenesses are like the two aspects of the middle
    member, i.e. they are like the conventional and ultimate aspects of the dependent
    nature [Paratantra] purified to different degrees. On the other hand, a buddha’s transmundane and
    pure mundane awarenesses are like the two aspects of the final member, i.e. the
    established nature that at the ultimate level [Parinispanna] is not separate from the dependent nature [Paratantra].
    How are they not separate? Ratnākaraśānti describes a buddha, whose dependent
    nature is thoroughly transformed, as arising as an all-pervasive being who is both
    transcendent and immanent in the following verse summarizing his Nirākāravādin
    system:

    After the cognitive images dissolve into transmundane awareness, the
    very same [awareness] arises as an All-Pervasive One (khyab bdag;
    vibhu/vyāpin) free of appearances, free of the two [i.e. grasper and
    grasped], and free of [conceptual] proliferations.

    Even though [we assert a buddha’s] mundane awareness [to have]
    cognitive images, since those cognitive images are delimited as false
    and unreal, [this is the system] called Nirākāravāda ("No Cognitive
    Images").

    Many people understand Nirākāravāda to be asserting that a buddha has “no
    cognitive images.” Although this may be true for other Nirākāravādin systems,
    Ratnākaraśānti explains that in his system, a buddha’s pure mundane awareness has
    false cognitive images. According to Ratnākaraśānti, when a buddha’s three bases
    are transformed, the cognitive images, i.e. signs of proliferation, completely dissolve
    into the transmundane awareness. After that dissolution, that awareness arises as a
    buddha with both a transmundane and a pure mundane awareness simultaneously. In
    Ratnākaraśānti’s Nirākāravādin system, it seems, the simultaneity of a buddha’s
    transmundane and his pure mundane awareness is what distinguishes him from a
    bodhisattva and makes him an All-Pervasive One (khyab bdag; prabhu). The arising
    as an All-Pervasive One is due to his compassionate aspiration to benefit beings. His
    pure mundane awareness is necessary to fulfill his compassionate activity for the sake
    of beings everywhere. Although a bodhisattva has the same pure mundane
    awareness as a buddha, the extent of his realization of the transmundane awareness
    does not permit him to function in an all-pervasive way. Thus, for Ratnākaraśānti, an
    all-pervasive buddha is someone who has so fundamentally transformed his three
    bases that he can benefit beings in both an immanent and a transcendent way at the
    same time. It should be pointed out that Ratnākaraśānti’s notion of an immanence
    and transcendence that involves a buddha’s possession of cognitive images is not far
    from Śāntarakṣita’s notion of an illusion-like buddha’s functioning in the world. The
    difference is that in Ratnākaraśānti’s causal system, a buddha must have a real
    awareness in order to delimit those cognitive images as illusion. Ratnākaraśānti’s
    thesis, mentioned above, about the equivalent established conclusions of both schools
    implied that the Nirākāra-Yogācāra and Śāntarakṣita’s Mādhyamika are only slightly
    different. Here, we can see that at the functional level of bodhisattvas and buddhas,
    that difference would be negligible. The difference is in how those functions are
    explained.

    Pervasion or Expansion is the same thing which in the tantras is the difference between our Gnosis and that of Sangyas or Vibuddha, same principle as Agni Vaisvanara. Ours is not Full or All (Purna).


    Ratnākaraśānti explains the slight
    difference as follows:

    The difference is just this much: The Yogācāra [position] is that the
    sheer luminosity, which is the inherent nature of phenomena, exists as
    a real substance, whereas the Mādhyamika [position] is that it does not
    exist as a real substance. This itself is a baseless quarrel of
    Mādhyamika [scholars] with Yogācāra.

    The agenda is expressed in the final line, i.e. “This itself is a baseless quarrel of
    Mādhyamika with Yogācāra.” Given that this is introducing the argument, we can
    see that Ratnākaraśānti’s intention here is to demonstrate that Mādhyamika cannot
    refute Yogācāra, so that he can put forth his own interpretation of Nāgārjuna and
    claim that he is both a Yogācāra and a Mādhyamika, as he does with his MPS/MAv
    doxographical list of the four Buddhist schools.

    Furthermore, Ratnākaraśānti’s classification of his own viewpoint—in the third place among the four
    Buddhist schools—as both Yogācāra and Mādhyamika is really just to say that both
    Yogācāra proponents and Mādhyamika proponents hold his same single true
    Nirākāravādin viewpoint, which subsumes the correct understanding of both
    Yogācāra and Mādhyamika. Thus, this statement about this Yogācāra system being
    difficult to refute is not indicating that his own viewpoint is merely Yogācāra.



    ...all phenomena completely dissolve into the transmundane awareness and that very same
    transmundane awareness instantly re-arises as the pure mundane awareness in the
    form of an All-Pervading One (vyāpin). When it arises, the realization of the
    buddha is pure, insofar as it sees only Suchness, free of attachment insofar as out of
    sheer compassion it retains a small amount of error, and pervading all domains
    (viṣaya), in that it is knows infinite objects of awareness to be Suchness.



    In terms of Prajnaparamita:

    [Regarding the line] what the Teacher has taught in this, [it says] in
    this (gang ’di las; atra), [meaning in this] sūtra, because the sūtra is
    the indicator (lakṣaṇa/lakṣaka) [of that path qua awareness of all
    aspects]. Here the wise are the bodhisattvas. Regarding that [attainment] behold means realize (sākṣātkaraṇa), [hence] realize the
    attainment. The idea is that [they] know [that path], based on this [AA]
    treatise, to be nothing but luminosity (prakāśa eva; gsal ba nyid). Not
    encountered [means] not realized. Others [means those who are] not
    bodhisattvas. By this the predominant purpose of the undertaking is
    taught.

    Here, we can understand Ratnākaraśānti’s glosses to mean that the main purpose of
    the undertaking, i.e. why the Aṣṭa is taught. What is that purpose? It is to teach sheer
    luminosity.


    It is frequently structured as Eight Topics.

    Third, according to Haribhadra and Buddhaśrījñāna, there are eight actual
    realizations (abhisamaya). The first seven topics describe the causal aspects of the
    single resultant realization of the jñānadharmakāya, which perceives the natural body
    (svābhāvikakāya). Furthermore, the Correct Understanding of All Aspects is the
    content of the other three Correct Understandings (abhisaṃbodha)—all of which are
    said to occur on the three types of Noble Ones’ paths.
    Fourth, according to both Dharmakīrtiśrī and Ratnākaraśānti, even though the
    first seven topics have the nature of realization, Prajñāpāramitā is their single nature.
    However, even though in general, they say that the eight realizations are what is to be
    expressed (abhidheya) by the eight chapters expressing (abhidhāna) them, they do not
    take the eighth topic “Dharmakāya” to be an actual realization, since it refers to the
    resultant bodies and their activity.


    According to Dharmakīrtiśrī, at the instant of the Correct Understanding in a
    Single Moment everything dissolves into the transmundane awareness, which is the
    State of Awareness of All Aspects. However, in the next moment, a buddha awakens
    as an awareness body that grasps only the unfabricated characteristic
    (akṛtimalakṣaṇa) and hence, becomes the body qua true nature (dharmatātmakaḥ
    kāyaḥ).

    Since Dharmakīrtiśrī follows Haribhadra in asserting the ultimate truth to
    be the true nature inseparable from the nondual Prajñāpāramitā that is like an
    illusion, he is implicitly refuting luminosity as real.

    As we saw above, according to Ratnākaraśānti, at the instant of the Correct
    Understanding in a Single Moment everything dissolves into the transmundane
    awareness. In the next moment, his sheer luminosity re-arises as an All-Pervasive One
    with pure mundane awareness that has error but sees the suchness. This is the State of
    Awareness of All Aspects that refers both to buddhahood and to a buddha himself.


    Ratnākaraśānti wants us to understand that when we see the term Prajñāpāramitā
    used with respect to either the path of preliminary practice or the Dharmakāya
    with its activity, we should know that these are merely secondary or figurative uses
    of the term based on their causal connection to Prajñāpāramitā. We call a budding
    bodhisattva’s conceptual awareness on the path of preliminary practice “Prajñāpāramitā” only because it is a cause for it, not the real Prajñāpāramitā. We call the
    awareness of the three bodies (dharmakāya) “Prajñāpāramitā” only because it is
    result of Prajñāpāramitā, not the real Prajñāpāramitā. Ratnākaraśānti’s definition of
    Prajñāpāramitā as “seeing emptiness” is the key distinctiveness of a bodhisattva.
    That is to say, if someone is on the path of preliminary practice, they still have
    conceptualization, i.e. cognitive images, mixed in with their experience of emptiness.
    Even though figuratively that person can be said to be practicing Prajñāpāramitā,
    without experiencing sheer luminosity free of cognitive images, it is, by definition,
    not the irreversible path of Prajñāpāramitā of the bodhisattvas who see emptiness. It
    may lead to that path, but it is not that path. Hence, when Prajñāpāra-mitā refers to a
    pre-bodhisattva, that is a figurative usage of the term. Likewise, after practicing
    Prajñāpāramitā, the dharmakāya is the indirect result of purification, but that
    dharmakāya, in Ratnākaraśānti’s system, is not perceiving emptiness anymore, since
    it arises as the All-Pervading One, which is pure mundane awareness.

    Prajñāpāramitā is of two types, transmundane and pure mundane. The
    bodhisattva, who is established (pratiṣṭhita) in the nonconceptual
    source, sees all entities as uniform [like] space, through awareness
    [which is] not distinguished with regard to [objects] to be known.
    Through [the post-meditative cognition] attained after that
    (tatpṛṣṭhalabdha), he sees all entities as magical illusions (māyā),
    mirages (marīci), dreams (svapna), light reflections (pratibhāsa),
    echoes, image reflections (pratibimba), moons in water, magical
    creations (nirmita)

    When a bodhisattva meditates, he is in the
    nonconceptual source which has no cognitive images whatsoever. When he is in the
    post-meditative state attained after that, he naturally experiences the pure mundane
    awareness, which is the natural after-effect of the transmundane awareness. That is
    to say, a bodhisattva does not need to deliberately practice anything in the postmeditation; his pure mundane awareness cannot help but see all entities, i.e. cognitive
    images of entities, as magical illusions (māyā), mirages (marīci), and so on, i.e. as
    false. Above, he told us that, by relying on Prajñāpāramitā, all experience is
    transformed into a path. That is precisely what is distinctive about Prajñāpāramitā.

    In Ratnākaraśānti’s system, the goal is not buddhahood, but the purification or
    removal of all obstructions. The goal is the path, insofar as one focuses merely on the
    path of purification. In this way, goal orientation along the path is avoided, but that
    path still results in a genuine awakening based on particular real causes aimed at
    removing particular obstructions one by one through the various methods explicated
    in the AA. For Ratnākaraśānti, the instructions of the AA are not a convenient lie, but
    a particular method for arriving at awakening through the pāramitā method (pāramitānaya). The important part about the Aṣṭa is precisely the particular method that it
    employs to arrive at buddhahood. But more importantly, it is only by emphasizing
    the importance of the Aṣṭa’s distinctive method that all the various methods of the
    tantras can be distinguished. Without these various methods being considered real,
    i.e. not illusory, there is no way to justify the superiority of any method in the
    Mahāyāna, much less the Śrāvakayāna. According to Ratnākaraśānti,
    Prajñāpāramitā is the activating element that makes either the sūtras or the tantras
    lead to awakening, but those methods must be defined and explained as functioning in
    a particular way.



    Here is a rough idea of how Ratnakarasanti was not much followed in Tibet:

    Yaroslav Komarovski (personal communication) notes that Śākya-mchog-ldan cites Ratnākaraśānti
    throughout his works, but further research is needed to determine how closely he or other Tibetan
    systems follow Ratnākaraśānti. Although Śākya-mchog-ldan mentions sNying po mchog roughly ten
    times in his Prajñāpāramitā commentaries, the fact that Ratnākaraśānti follows the Madhyāntavibhāga
    model of the three natures differentiates him from Śākya-mchog-ldan (who holds the chos dbying to
    ultimate) and even moreso from others gZhan-stong writers like Dol-po-pa (who hold’od gsal to be
    ultimate while emphasizing the ekayāna system and the Kālacakra framework).


    Even if it is the case that Dolpopa emphasized Ekayana, I do not see why this is any conflict to the Three Natures. The controversial Shentong position is more or less in saying the Parinispanna is real.

    Taranatha deals with it, or Luminous Heart.

    Coming from a background of having Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra before Vajrasattva--Vajradhara Guru Yoga, it is not hard to get the point of what Ratnakarasanti is doing by installing "she is the Path", which is not much different from Nepal or Namasangiti. There would seem to be plenty of prior sources placing her in the same way he does. He is trying to connect this in a standard commentary.

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