Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

[TomKat]

I think the important question is: Do you HAVE a soul or ARE you a soul? Big, big difference. Yes, a body HAS a soul, but is that soul YOU?

I admit, I don't know for certain myself.

[Free Thinker]

Posted by TomKat (here)
I think the important question is: Do you HAVE a soul or ARE you a soul? Big, big difference. Yes, a body HAS a soul, but is that soul YOU?

I admit, I don't know for certain myself.

Much better stated than what I had said. Kudos to you on that.

Edited: Regarding the first part of my statement, that is.

[TomKat]

Posted by Free Thinker (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
I think the important question is: Do you HAVE a soul or ARE you a soul? Big, big difference. Yes, a body HAS a soul, but is that soul YOU?

I admit, I don't know for certain myself.

Much better stated than what I had said. Kudos to you on that.

Edited: Regarding the first part of my statement, that is.

Based on a lifetime of exorcisms, my conundrum is this. Spirits attach to human bodies, not just at birth, but they accumulate well into adulthood. The personality of the human changes as a result of each attachment. As we exorcise these spirits the personality gradually reverts toward that of childhood. Does that mean that the birth spirit is the REAL person? Or does that mean that the body is the real person, and it just THINKS that it's whatever spirit is in its auric field? Is the spirit (software) the source or is the body (hardware) the source of life?

My experience says that it's a little of both: The birth spirit gradually BECOMES the body, without which the body would die. But with a hostile childhood environment, the birth spirit loses partial ability to BE that body, that person, inviting attachment by other spirits. This is further exacerbated by sexual and religious shaming. And that's how we get teenagers!

[Ernie Nemeth]

If the soul is the greater part of a human's identity, stretching back to before birth and beyond, then when we die, the thing we thought we were will dissolve and be no more.

It must be so because the thing we think we are cannot contain the truth of our selves. What we are precludes these bodies.

[Free Thinker]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Free Thinker (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
I think the important question is: Do you HAVE a soul or ARE you a soul? Big, big difference. Yes, a body HAS a soul, but is that soul YOU?

I admit, I don't know for certain myself.

Much better stated than what I had said. Kudos to you on that.

Edited: Regarding the first part of my statement, that is.

Based on a lifetime of exorcisms, my conundrum is this. Spirits attach to human bodies, not just at birth, but they accumulate well into adulthood. The personality of the human changes as a result of each attachment. As we exorcise these spirits the personality gradually reverts toward that of childhood. Does that mean that the birth spirit is the REAL person? Or does that mean that the body is the real person, and it just THINKS that it's whatever spirit is in its auric field? Is the spirit (software) the source or is the body (hardware) the source of life?

My experience says that it's a little of both: The birth spirit gradually BECOMES the body, without which the body would die. But with a hostile childhood environment, the birth spirit loses partial ability to BE that body, that person, inviting attachment by other spirits. This is further exacerbated by sexual and religious shaming. And that's how we get teenagers!

I feel this is only partially true, Tomkat. One's life experiences change them - ultimately either for the better or the worst. Based on my current understanding, there may very well be something to what you said about the birth spirit ultimately winning out, though what/how you said it seems to exclude what came after, so I am not in total agreement there. But that's okay.

We're all on this journey called LIFE.

[Patient]

And depending upon your definition of a soul - some people do, and some don't.

I am sure that it has to be earned.

[TomKat]

Posted by Patient (here)
And depending upon your definition of a soul - some people do, and some don't.

I am sure that it has to be earned.

That's another thing I'm not certain of. To me, spirit seems more mental, and holds the identity, located in the head. Whereas soul seems to encompass the heart and at least one chakra above and below that. Seems like the spirit occupies the soul which in turn occupies the body. According to some Taoist writing I've seen, at death the spirit goes up to "heaven" and the soul goes down to "earth." A true, complete unity of spirit and soul might be what Jesus was teaching. There's a book called Division of Consciousness that ponders this:
https://www.amazon.com/Division-Cons.../dp/1571740538

[Patient]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Patient (here)
And depending upon your definition of a soul - some people do, and some don't.

I am sure that it has to be earned.

That's another thing I'm not certain of. To me, spirit seems more mental, and holds the identity, located in the head. Whereas soul seems to encompass the heart and at least one chakra above and below that. Seems like the spirit occupies the soul which in turn occupies the body. According to some Taoist writing I've seen, at death the spirit goes up to "heaven" and the soul goes down to "earth." A true, complete unity of spirit and soul might be what Jesus was teaching. There's a book called Division of Consciousness that ponders this:
https://www.amazon.com/Division-Cons.../dp/1571740538

...you also have to wonder - will we ever know?

I think that there will always be an opportunity to be better than we are at any time, in any stage of existence.

[Antagenet]

Posted by East Sun (here)
We believe because we were told by religion that this is so.

I have been pondering these questions for ever.

There is no way for anyone to prove that we have a soul or spirit.

We may be believers in God or whatever or be Atheists but we
just do not know for definite.

We hear or have been told of OBE's and they seem to be very real
and may very well be real even though not explainable.

That does not tell us if we have a Spirit or a Soul?

I personally do not think we can ever know if we have a Soul or Spirit.

That does not make us any less human.

I hope some Spiritually advanced person can throw some light
on my questions, without going into long rehashed dogma.

Spare me the religion approach.

Is there a definite proof or not.

My proof is that I remember how it felt to exist in a place that is not earth, before I was born here.

[Ti]

Posted by Antagenet (here)
My proof is that I remember how it felt to exist in a place that is not earth, before I was born here.

Indeed. It's no proof to anyone else, but I too remember and that's good enough for me to feel confident that I'm a soul steering a body.

[TomKat]

Posted by Antagenet (here)

Posted by East Sun (here)
We believe because we were told by religion that this is so.

I have been pondering these questions for ever.

There is no way for anyone to prove that we have a soul or spirit.

We may be believers in God or whatever or be Atheists but we
just do not know for definite.

We hear or have been told of OBE's and they seem to be very real
and may very well be real even though not explainable.

That does not tell us if we have a Spirit or a Soul?

I personally do not think we can ever know if we have a Soul or Spirit.

That does not make us any less human.

I hope some Spiritually advanced person can throw some light
on my questions, without going into long rehashed dogma.

Spare me the religion approach.

Is there a definite proof or not.

My proof is that I remember how it felt to exist in a place that is not earth, before I was born here.

I've gotten rid of enough attached entities to know that their memories can feel like my own while they're attached.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Antagenet (here)

Posted by East Sun (here)
We believe because we were told by religion that this is so.

I have been pondering these questions for ever.

There is no way for anyone to prove that we have a soul or spirit.

We may be believers in God or whatever or be Atheists but we
just do not know for definite.

We hear or have been told of OBE's and they seem to be very real
and may very well be real even though not explainable.

That does not tell us if we have a Spirit or a Soul?

I personally do not think we can ever know if we have a Soul or Spirit.

That does not make us any less human.

I hope some Spiritually advanced person can throw some light
on my questions, without going into long rehashed dogma.

Spare me the religion approach.

Is there a definite proof or not.

My proof is that I remember how it felt to exist in a place that is not earth, before I was born here.

I've gotten rid of enough attached entities to know that their memories can feel like my own while they're attached.

Funny. I imagine this being said by a puppet, while its strings make its arms and legs jerk around involuntarily...show me the proof!

By the way, the proof is inside, not outside. Therefore the proof is subjective, always will be. So in the context of this line of expectation the 'show me the proof' adage borders on petulance. It is the classic Doubting Thomas parable.

'Show me the proof' by the thing that is the proof, priceless.

[TomKat]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)
I've gotten rid of enough attached entities to know that their memories can feel like my own while they're attached.

Funny. I imagine this being said by a puppet, while its strings make its arms and legs jerk around involuntarily...show me the proof!

By the way, the proof is inside, not outside. Therefore the proof is subjective, always will be. So in the context of this line of expectation the 'show me the proof' adage borders on petulance. It is the classic Doubting Thomas parable.

'Show me the proof' by the thing that is the proof, priceless.

Your meaning is lost in all the complicated sarcasm and referencing of things in only your own mind. Try again?

[Ernie Nemeth]

I agree it was a tad rude. Sorry. Must have been having one of those days...

My point was that the body is all we know. It is our ground, our reference point, our one constant. When we speak of spirit or soul, we speak of a thing we have no direct knowledge of and so we fall back to what we do know, the body. But the soul is not the body and it has an entirely unique coherence, very much different than the body. Because its aspects are subtle and somewhat tenuous, its relationship to the body is also sublime.

The soul is inward, deep inside, at the core of our beings. Similarly, Spirit resides within and connects us all to one Source. The soul is the 'driver of the bus', the animating aspect of the body. Spirit is the observer, forever silent and serene, at one and at peace.

The difference between soul and Spirit is the soul was created in the likeness of Spirit. Spirit always was, is and will be.