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Thread: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Just decide.
    What would you rather have/be?
    An answer from outside will never satisfy you, anyway.
    It's not a matter of what I would rather be or believe.
    No answer will suffice. I asked for answers and I got what I expected.
    There are no adequate answers because we simply do not know.

    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    Well I've left my body body on more than one occasion ... that kinda was enough for me. Maybe I'm fortunate in that regard - I cannot share, nor give you that experience.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    It’s a rare kismet when others can help to corroborate. This is an experience of bi-location. I recalled the events and now have a better understanding if/when I maybe bi-locating.


    In the mid-1980’s, I was on my way to meditation that was reschedule on a day I usually attended healing service. I was in conflict but picked the meditation which was one exit away from the healing service.

    Still torn by my decision and bewildered, I pulled over, readjusted my seat and stared out the sun roof at the stars. It was 6:50 p.m., a few moments away from my 7:00 p.m. meditation class. I felt disoriented and confused by the indecision.

    During the meditation I experienced a split in vision. Where one eye watched a scene that was in black and white while the other was of a past life.

    It wasn’t until the following week that I found out the rest of the story. At the healing service, a man asked if I’d been experiencing any troubles lately. He went on to explain he has the ability to see people bi-locate. And that I was there a little before the 7:00 p.m. healing service.

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 11th July 2020 at 00:30.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    It’s a rare kismet when others can help to corroborate. This is an experience of bi-location. I recalled the events and now have a better understanding if/when I maybe bi-locating.


    In the mid-1980’s, I was on my way to meditation that was reschedule on a day I usually attended healing service. I was in conflict but picked the meditation which was one exit away from the healing service.

    Still torn by my decision and bewildered, I pulled over, readjusted my seat and stared out the sun roof at the stars. It was 6:50 p.m., a few moments away from my 7:00 p.m. meditation class. I felt disoriented and confused by the indecision.

    During the meditation I experienced a split in vision. Where one eye watched a scene that was in black and white while the other was of a past life.

    It wasn’t until the following week that I found out the rest of the story. At the healing service, a man asked if I’d been experiencing any troubles lately. He went on to explain he has the ability to see people bi-locate. And that I was there a little before the 7:00 p.m. healing service.


    Interesting ... I've "bi-timed" before -- I experienced two different times, separated by a year exactly, in the exact same location (my office cubicle and chair). It was weird, and I didn't realize what happened until I experienced it the 2nd time, one year later, then suddenly the first experience (which was weird as hell, and my coworker was there observing me go through it - embarrassing, because I weirded out a bit), made complete sense to me, and revealed what had actually happened.

    Mine doesn't help on the soul thing necessarily, but I thought I'd share my (one of a few) weird experience, inspired by yours.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Just decide.
    What would you rather have/be?
    An answer from outside will never satisfy you, anyway.
    It's not a matter of what I would rather be or believe.
    No answer will suffice. I asked for answers and I got what I expected.
    There are no adequate answers because we simply do not know.

    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    Well I've left my body body on more than one occasion ... that kinda was enough for me. Maybe I'm fortunate in that regard - I cannot share, nor give you that experience.
    It is great that you had those experiences. I never did have an OBE but do not doubt
    that anybody did.

    All I'm saying is that what we have been told by religions etcetera may not
    be in any way what actually is.
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Just decide.
    What would you rather have/be?
    An answer from outside will never satisfy you, anyway.
    It's not a matter of what I would rather be or believe.
    No answer will suffice. I asked for answers and I got what I expected.
    There are no adequate answers because we simply do not know.

    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    The reason that people will not admit that they do not know is because when we have a direct connection to our true nature, like a near-death experience, or an out-of-body experience, or we bilocate or we have a parallel universe experience, there is direct awareness of the truth that we are universal, supernatural, cosmic, multidimensional, spiritual, infinite, eternal beings. It is something that has to be experienced to comprehend. We cannot appreciate what we cannot perceive.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Interesting ... I've "bi-timed" before -- I experienced two different times, separated by a year exactly, in the exact same location (my office cubicle and chair). It was weird, and I didn't realize what happened until I experienced it the 2nd time, one year later, then suddenly the first experience (which was weird as hell, and my coworker was there observing me go through it - embarrassing, because I weirded out a bit), made complete sense to me, and revealed what had actually happened.

    Mine doesn't help on the soul thing necessarily, but I thought I'd share my (one of a few) weird experience, inspired by yours.
    Thanks for sharing, Mike. I never considered a time difference bi-location. What we call deja vu might be more like your experience. Interesting food for thought.

    Quote Mine doesn't help on the soul thing necessarily
    It depends on how you want to look at the whole. Knowing there's more through experience helps point to the unknowns. The experiences help us move the goal posts. It quickens the processes/possibilities and opens more doors.

    Whether it's called soul or spirit, or what is the difference between them? Experiences are enough for me to understand “this” isn’t the only thing that happens/happening. I’d rather put focus on the doing and/or the paying attention to those surprised gifts of subtleties. And figure out how to sharpen them.

    Last edited by RunningDeer; 11th July 2020 at 07:15.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Just decide.
    What would you rather have/be?
    An answer from outside will never satisfy you, anyway.
    It's not a matter of what I would rather be or believe.
    No answer will suffice. I asked for answers and I got what I expected.
    There are no adequate answers because we simply do not know.

    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    The reason that people will not admit that they do not know is because when we have a direct connection to our true nature, like a near-death experience, or an out-of-body experience, or we bilocate or we have a parallel universe experience, there is direct awareness of the truth that we are universal, supernatural, cosmic, multidimensional, spiritual, infinite, eternal beings. It is something that has to be experienced to comprehend. We cannot appreciate what we cannot perceive.
    Quote It is something that has to be experienced to comprehend. We cannot appreciate what we cannot perceive.
    That's it in a nutshell.
    Constance.
    Sharing experiences helps,
    but one needs to be open to the possibilities.
    Be the fire-walker.


    Last edited by RunningDeer; 11th July 2020 at 01:28.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    I don't think our brain/mind/cerebral think space is all there is to even our '3D' intelligence. We have a full body intelligence that has to be used in balance. Over relying on just one aspect of the whole gets us into all sorts of trouble.

    If our mind throws out a question like yours looking for an answer in it's own cerebral terms, and doesn't, for the obvious reason, get one, maybe the lesson to learn ( more than getting it's answer ) is about 'full sentience' self discovery.

    Maybe the reason you are so keen with the question is a sign you are really ready now for some holistic self discovery.
    Last edited by norman; 11th July 2020 at 01:21.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    Sharing experiences helps, but one needs to be open to the possibilities. Become the fire-walker.
    Exactly Paula! Fabulous stuff. When we remain in a constant state of openness, we can experience our true nature. It is inevitable

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    ...

    All I'm saying is that what we have been told by religions etcetera may not
    be in any way what actually is.
    Well my experiences have helped, but I have always have had my own views that differed from the religious ideologies. I have allowed my view to be from the various inputs on the subject over time, and using discerning skills to extrapolate most probable outcome. I use a lot of deductive reasoning which, while not perfect, often can get to high probabilities quickly.

    So my views are generally my own, but the do align with various elements on the subject.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Well, once one's been regressed a few times to re-experience some of one's past lives, there's absolutely no doubt (for oneself) that these are real.

    But because the experience is subjective, it's unprovable. I had eggs for breakfast this morning. I know because I remember it clearly. There's no doubt. But I can't prove it.... no-one else was around, and I didn't record it on video.

    So if past lives are real, then of course that's not my own current body. What it has to be is that part of us that also remembers things, but which is non-physical.

    QED — for me, personally. I have absolutely not a molecule of doubt. But everyone has to discover this for themselves, if they can or want to. And in the end, as meeradas says, it'll be self-evident.
    I agree Bill, but when one considers is anything real at all?
    Are you a program running in or as part of some virtual reality?

    Our brains take in input from outside of our body, and then we say that is all as is.
    Life is but a dream, and we have many, many dreams
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Avalon Member Cognitive Dissident's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    This is a slightly different point from the other comments, which have been great - I would like to highlight one theory which states that the spirit and the soul both exist, but are different things.

    The theory is the Binary Soul Doctrine or BSD.

    I’m not saying that it is true (my personal opinion is that probably, it is), but it is fascinating and there is a lot of evidence that many cultures, some very ancient, believed in it, without any physical connection between those cultures. Could they all have independently discovered something very important about the nature of spiritual reality?

    Bear in mind also that, if this theory is true, it would have been one of the most closely guarded esoteric secrets in the world. Not only the theory itself, but the practical implications for each person. That means in order to learn it you would have to spend 20 years being initiated and trained in some secret society before being considered ready to receive such knowledge. However, as we all know, these are very unique times that we are living in, so you can get this deep spiritual wisdom from a random stranger on the internet…

    The basic theory is that the spirit and the soul are two different things. Most people (who are not materialists) believe that they both survive death and they are basically two words referring to the same thing. However, the BSD states that the spirit is pure awareness, but the soul is more like unconscious memories and a deep energetic connection with reality. During incarnation, both the spiritual and the soul inhabit your body together and interact with each other (one of the many reasons the human experience is so unique), but at death, they fragment and go on different journeys: the spirit, having lost its memories, to be reborn in a new body, and the soul, having lost its awareness, to live in a non-physical world which it basically created out of its own unconscious and belief systems (a good depiction of the soul’s journey is in the Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come).

    Everything written above comes from this book by Peter Novak, which I read about 15 years ago:

    https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Secret-D.../dp/1571743243

    At this point, hopefully you are reading this and saying - wait, what? But hold on, there’s more!

    What if the traumatic fragmentation of the spirit and the soul at the moment of death was not inevitable and could be prevented by certain esoteric integration practices during life, which, if undertaken diligently and persistently, would result in the integration of the spirit and the soul during the period of physical incarnation itself, so that upon death the spirit and soul did not fragment but instead were able to exist as one in the spiritual realm? Such a being would become, as Obi Wan said in a different context, “more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. In other words, immortal and able to select its next physical incarnation at will.

    One is reminded of the avatars of the Hindu gods, who presumably attained this state a long time ago and were able to return to the physical plane when required. And also of the doctrine of Tibetan Buddhism that the highly evolved lama is able to chose his next incarnation. Also, the obsession of the ancient Egyptians with surviving death - Novak convincingly shows that the ancient Egyptians understood very well that the spirit and the soul are different, having two different names and descriptions with very different qualities - and he shows that the same is true for many cultures around the world. Naturally, this information is heavily suppressed during modern times. As Bill Hicks would say (and yes, this is connected): it’s just a ride, but what do we do to those people who tell us this truth? https://youtu.be/KgzQuE1pR1w. Spend 2 minutes watching this to the end and you will understand what he means about “exploring space, inner and outer, forever, in peace”.

    So. It is all about integration, which is long, difficult and complicated work. Yoga is one example, the literal meaning of the word yoga is “union”. But emotional, intellectual and spiritual integration is also required. Onwards, fellow gentle and brave seekers…

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by Cognitive Dissident (here)
    This is a slightly different point from the other comments, which have been great - I would like to highlight one theory which states that the spirit and the soul both exist, but are different things.

    The theory is the Binary Soul Doctrine or BSD.

    I’m not saying that it is true (my personal opinion is that probably, it is), but it is fascinating and there is a lot of evidence that many cultures, some very ancient, believed in it, without any physical connection between those cultures. Could they all have independently discovered something very important about the nature of spiritual reality?

    Bear in mind also that, if this theory is true, it would have been one of the most closely guarded esoteric secrets in the world. Not only the theory itself, but the practical implications for each person. That means in order to learn it you would have to spend 20 years being initiated and trained in some secret society before being considered ready to receive such knowledge. However, as we all know, these are very unique times that we are living in, so you can get this deep spiritual wisdom from a random stranger on the internet…

    The basic theory is that the spirit and the soul are two different things. Most people (who are not materialists) believe that they both survive death and they are basically two words referring to the same thing. However, the BSD states that the spirit is pure awareness, but the soul is more like unconscious memories and a deep energetic connection with reality. During incarnation, both the spiritual and the soul inhabit your body together and interact with each other (one of the many reasons the human experience is so unique), but at death, they fragment and go on different journeys: the spirit, having lost its memories, to be reborn in a new body, and the soul, having lost its awareness, to live in a non-physical world which it basically created out of its own unconscious and belief systems (a good depiction of the soul’s journey is in the Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come).

    Everything written above comes from this book by Peter Novak, which I read about 15 years ago:

    https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Secret-D.../dp/1571743243

    At this point, hopefully you are reading this and saying - wait, what? But hold on, there’s more!

    What if the traumatic fragmentation of the spirit and the soul at the moment of death was not inevitable and could be prevented by certain esoteric integration practices during life, which, if undertaken diligently and persistently, would result in the integration of the spirit and the soul during the period of physical incarnation itself, so that upon death the spirit and soul did not fragment but instead were able to exist as one in the spiritual realm? Such a being would become, as Obi Wan said in a different context, “more powerful than you can possibly imagine”. In other words, immortal and able to select its next physical incarnation at will.

    One is reminded of the avatars of the Hindu gods, who presumably attained this state a long time ago and were able to return to the physical plane when required. And also of the doctrine of Tibetan Buddhism that the highly evolved lama is able to chose his next incarnation. Also, the obsession of the ancient Egyptians with surviving death - Novak convincingly shows that the ancient Egyptians understood very well that the spirit and the soul are different, having two different names and descriptions with very different qualities - and he shows that the same is true for many cultures around the world. Naturally, this information is heavily suppressed during modern times. As Bill Hicks would say (and yes, this is connected): it’s just a ride, but what do we do to those people who tell us this truth? https://youtu.be/KgzQuE1pR1w. Spend 2 minutes watching this to the end and you will understand what he means about “exploring space, inner and outer, forever, in peace”.

    So. It is all about integration, which is long, difficult and complicated work. Yoga is one example, the literal meaning of the word yoga is “union”. But emotional, intellectual and spiritual integration is also required. Onwards, fellow gentle and brave seekers…
    Quote As Bill Hicks would say (and yes, this is connected): it’s just a ride, but what do we do to those people who tell us this truth? https://youtu.be/KgzQuE1pR1w. Spend 2 minutes watching this to the end and you will understand what he means about “exploring space, inner and outer, forever, in peace”.
    Thanks, Cognitive Dissident.


    Bill Hicks - It's Just A Ride

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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    I do know.


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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    I do know.

    Dear Bill,

    Would you be able to tell us more about your knowledge surrounding soul and spirit dynamics between lives?

    I did have a drowning experience when about 7yrs. old and can clearly remember being able to see surroundings underwater super clearly (without physical eyes) and all fear was non-existant, where ever consciousness was focused I was suddenly there. At the time I was in a deep fast flowing saltwater river with my Mother's diving weight belt on. 🙄. The experience happenned after struggle to stop falling down steep submerged rocky enbankment and I couldn't get wire buckle undone. Luckily my Dad realised I was missing and saw me underwater with a swimming mask on and brought me out 😊.

    I don't have past live memories except very small flashes. Can you remember what happens inbetween lives?
    Last edited by Harmony; 12th July 2020 at 12:38.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by Harmony (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Why will people not admit that we do not know?
    I do know.

    Dear Bill,

    Would you be able to tell us more about your knowledge surrounding soul and spirit dynamics between lives?

    I did have a drowning experience when about 7yrs. old and can clearly remember being able to see surroundings underwater super clearly (without physical eyes) and all fear was non-existant, where ever consciousness was focused I were suddenly there. At the time I was in a deep fast flowing saltwater river with my Mother's diving weightbelt on 🙄. The experience happenned after struggle to stop falling down steep submerged rocky embankment and I couldn't get wire buckle undone. Luckily my Dad realised I was missing and saw me underwater with a swimming mask on and brought me out 😊.

    I don't have past live memories except very small flashes. Can you remember what happens inbetween lives?
    Great question, but I've never personally recalled anything between lives — in the sense that most people mean. (I did have a remarkable, complex and protracted experience between my last life and the current one, but it was so weird and unusual — very likely even unique — that it really doesn't count.)

    However, I can share a great story.

    A close friend is highly skilled in this area (she herself is a past life therapist), and she clearly recalled that between this life and her previous one she'd acted as what some might call "a guardian angel" for a Jewish artist who escaped from Nazi Germany and made a long a difficult journey across Europe to end up in Spain. He encountered many problems, again and again, and each time my friend was able to help him continue safely.

    She recalled all this without knowing a thing about this person in the "real world". But she recalled enough detail to be able to look him up and discover who this was, and sure enough, he'd written about his experience.

    In his writing, he vividly described how many times, he'd most distinctly felt he was being assisted by "an unseen hand".

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 12th July 2020 at 12:26.

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    United States Avalon Member NX.P's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    I understand there are those, that once able, assist those in need via astral projection during sleep..or otherwise. A truly remarkable class of individuals devoting both physical and non-physical means to service.

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    Avalon Member meeradas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Maybe the reason you are so keen with the question is a sign you are really ready now for some holistic self discovery.
    Most obviously.

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Just decide.
    What would you rather have/be?[...]
    It's not a matter of what I would rather be or believe.
    No answer will suffice. I asked for answers and I got what I expected.
    There are no adequate answers because we simply do not know. [...]
    Your free will is accepted & honoured.
    Know that you can choose differently at any time.
    [<-I mean it!]
    Last edited by meeradas; 14th July 2020 at 12:25.

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    United States Avalon Member andyangel1205's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    This is a great question - awhile ago, my wife channeled an entity we call "Jack" and asked him about past lives, his life as an Earth human, crossing over, etc - one of his answers stood out - "I needed to go where my soul needed to work." Jack said we have a choice at the life review stage and suggested to me that your "soul" helps drive you to your next destination. Fascinating stuff.


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    Serbia Avalon Member XelNaga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a Spirit? Do we have a Soul? And where's the proof?

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    We believe because we were told by religion that this is so.

    I have been pondering these questions for ever.

    There is no way for anyone to prove that we have a soul or spirit.

    We may be believers in God or whatever or be Atheists but we
    just do not know for definite.

    We hear or have been told of OBE's and they seem to be very real
    and may very well be real even though not explainable.

    That does not tell us if we have a Spirit or a Soul?

    I personally do not think we can ever know if we have a Soul or Spirit.

    That does not make us any less human.

    I hope some Spiritually advanced person can throw some light
    on my questions, without going into long rehashed dogma.

    Spare me the religion approach.

    Is there a definite proof or not.
    Dear East Sun,

    I guess you will have the answer to this question when you get your first personal experience with "it".

    I don't want to get into detail as it is off-topic in a way, but I have been standing next to my sleeping body in my bed.

    Now, the "me" looking at my body, was it my spirit, my soul, my astral body, or just pure consciousness, I have no idea.

    But there was me, not physical, looking at my sleeping body. Something is there inside of these meat suits, but what? Who knows...

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