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Thread: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

  1. Link to Post #61
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

    You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

    You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.
    I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

    Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

    Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

    Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.


    Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

    Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

    Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

    As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

    I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

    The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.
    Last edited by Mike; 9th July 2020 at 21:16.

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  3. Link to Post #62
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

    You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

    You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.
    I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

    Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

    Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

    Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.


    Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

    Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

    Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

    As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

    I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why they're disastrous and unproductive.

    The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.
    I get all that ...

    I just haven't seen you respond so emotionally to something in a while, if ever. Emotional reactions tend to try to replace good clear discussion with logic and proper dialogue.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  5. Link to Post #63
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Hi Mike, you're right, I suppose I have been more emotional lately. Which is kind of ironic, because some members have accused me of not being emotional enough! And maybe they have a point. Maybe I am overintellectualizing somewhat when it comes to the suffering of minorities. I acknowledge that.

    I fear that western civilization is being destroyed. Right in front of our eyes. There's just no more time for niceties. It's happening right now. If I seem short on patience, or more animated than usual, that's why. Believe me, i'd prefer to be talking about something else!
    Last edited by Mike; 9th July 2020 at 20:08.

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  7. Link to Post #64
    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    ...
    I think it is, and has been for a while. Generations with less history and more SJW in schools and universities getting older. Knock out education for a generation, and you have an ingredient for cultural marxism; ...it seems to be the common thread. Who profits is anyone's guess and I very humbly suggest everyone does.

    This from last year (it might be posted elsewhere on the forum) - Zuby, Escaping the SJW Cult | Real Talk with Zuby #048 - Keri Smith (youtube link). Interesting bit at the 44:00 mark.

    But they are shooting themselves in the foot, like with the Fortnite trick on the 4th July (youtube link), when they bait and switched a game for education, to teach you hip hop is good music, I;m not kidding. I think hip hop is good music, I'm not even learning anything. Other educational content pushed in the 'game' is woke-bias.

    Have you seen what has happened to comics? There's a new Marvel super-hero called snowflake. I;m not kidding, this is a real thing. Here she is with her friend safespace

    Snowflake? Safespace? Beautifully illustrated but not funny. No, it is funny. Also, not funny. Woke cultural-marxism lol cry lol


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    Madagascar Avalon Member silvanelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds
    Here is the Encyclopedia Britannica ("The world standard in knowledge since 1768") about "Communism". You should read about it for at least 30 seconds -- you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.

    Quote Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society. Communism is thus a form of socialism—a higher and more advanced form, according to its advocates. Exactly how communism differs from socialism has long been a matter of debate, but the distinction rests largely on the communists’ adherence to the revolutionary socialism of Karl Marx.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by silvanelf (here)
    you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Please.

    This doesn't help. Referring to anyone as being in a "far-right-wing bubble" is almost as bad (and generalized, and inaccurate) as calling someone a "racist", a "white supremacist", a "snowflake" (which Justjane called me once — Wow!) or a "commie bastard". (That's Australian. )


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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?
    Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?
    Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.
    Jane: do you have children?
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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  16. Link to Post #69
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by silvanelf (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I'm not a fan of censorship. But I regard any post or thread supporting communism and/or marxism as being on par with a post or thread supporting the flat earth. How to handle that? I don't know. Maybe a sub-forum for people who refuse to google stuff and read about it for at least 30 seconds
    Here is the Encyclopedia Britannica ("The world standard in knowledge since 1768") about "Communism". You should read about it for at least 30 seconds -- you seem to ignore any arguments outside of your far-right-wing bubble.

    Quote Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories) and the natural resources of a society. Communism is thus a form of socialism—a higher and more advanced form, according to its advocates. Exactly how communism differs from socialism has long been a matter of debate, but the distinction rests largely on the communists’ adherence to the revolutionary socialism of Karl Marx.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/communism


    read it. didn't take 30 seconds, but i digress.

    didn't learn anything new there. it's just reinforced my belief that communism is a horrible idea. what is it about this brief description that you find to be so enlightening?
    Last edited by Mike; 9th July 2020 at 22:10.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?
    Apparently it’s a-ok to call people dumb and sociopaths but we draw the line at white supremacist.


    the difference is that i don't go around arbitrarily insulting people. but if i am insulted, like i have been by praxis many times, and by you, i will defend myself. his accusations are groundless, and so are yours..and in the spirit of politeness, lets just say unintelligent.

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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

    You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

    You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.
    I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

    Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

    Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

    Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.


    Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

    Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

    Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

    As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

    I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

    The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.
    I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

    The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

    Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

    Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

    You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

    You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.
    I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

    Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

    Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

    Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.


    Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

    Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

    Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

    As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

    I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

    The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.
    I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

    The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

    Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

    Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.
    You're riddled with contradictions here Jane. Reread what you've posted.

    And I did ask a little further up-chat: do you have children?
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.

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  24. Link to Post #74
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    A word of advice though, I think you will find it is not worth engaging white supremacist. They wont admit they are, but you can see in their beliefs and language that they speak the exact same ways as white supremacist.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Listen up: that's unacceptable. You're simply not being rational — just over-emotional. There are no 'supremacists' or 'racists' here. Just people who are very concerned about the world. (As you are.)

    And you can't use the "you're in denial, so it must be true" trick. That's cheap, insulting, and unintelligent. Socrates would have you splayed out in little intellectual pieces within minutes if you were to try that in his forum.
    So he can call me stupid and that is ok?

    He has expressed views that are white supremacist in nature. If you keep expressing viewpoints that consistently and clearly use their language then you start to look like one.

    Bill, Having read many of my posts, can you honestly say you find me to be a stupid person?

    So again, it is alright for Mike to attack me personally?

    You attacked *me* personally, genius. It wasn't the first time either. And it was a dumb comment. You just keep bleating the white supremacist accusation over and over and have never once argued it intellectually. List one thing I've said that is "white supremacist in nature". List one. And then explain precisely why it's racist.

    You also insulted the entire forum. Don't forget that. Did you expect a big hug afterwards? When you congratulate the communist on her boldness (an actively murderous ideology responsible for countless millions of deaths) and then wag your finger at the rest of us for our hypothetical intolerance, the very universe demands that you're made aware how unintelligent that sounds. It would be a sin if you weren't.
    I didn't think I'd find myself saying this, but Mike you are sounding a bit arrogant and ignorant today.

    Praxis' comment and all that crap aside ... There is no intrinsic evil, or cult, or religion, or nefariousness built into the general ideologies of socialism or communism. Communist systems tend to become destructive, like any other top down powered organization (including all religions), when the controlling interests get hijacked and/or corrupted by greedy people.

    Is capitalism immune to this? You tell me .. how's this capitalist world working for us? Everything humming along brilliantly! No starvation, no more human rights issues, no more trafficking, pedophilia has been wiped out, and capitalism has led us to the verge of heaven on earth ... right? Oh wait ... but capitalism does allow all that to happen while we can blindly turn around and pretend it doesn't exist. Communism doesn't allow for that.

    Come'on man ... the issues in this world is greedy people. Not ideologies, or religions, etc.


    Notice I wasn't necessarily defending or supporting capitalism. I've merely pointed out the glaringly obvious about communism.

    Capitalism is not without its problems, of which there are many. But comparing it to communism and finding them both inadequate in some way and then dismissing them as equally futile is, well, nuts. That's like comparing a BMW and a ford pinto and declaring them a wash because they'll both break down someday.

    Anything that is top down - a hierarchy- has the potential to be corrupted. But you can't have a value system without a hierarchy. Herirachies are millions of years old. You can't place them at the feet of capitalism.

    As a society we have problems and issues. We have to solve those problems and issues. If we don't we have suffering and death to deal with. So as we collectively try to solve them, we begin to find out that some people are better at solving certain things than others. And hierarchies form. The risk is that some may dissolve Into tyrannies, but if you want to have a coherent society, they're essential.

    I would submit that most of our hierarchies in the west are built on competence, not power. Communism flattens hierarchies and therefore competence and coherence. That's why it's disastrous and unproductive.

    The biggest issue is deficient people, not deficient systems. Agreed. But some systems make that problem infinitely worse than others.
    I’m responding to this comment for the benefit of others because you’ve raise two very very important issues that need to be addressed.

    The problem with our world is precisely what and how we value both things and people. This value is constructed not inherent. We value celebrity over scholarship. Profit over community contribution. And so on. Capitalism ensures that the worst of us, narcissists, sociopaths, are more likely to become successful and affluent whilst the best of us are simply left to make do, teachers, nurses, social workers.

    Hierarchies in the west are not built on competence. And even if they were that doesn’t make them right. Why should I get more by virtue of my birth?

    Am surprised that I would have to make either of these arguments in this group.


    hey, fair enough. cool. i don't agree with any of this and i can explain why a bit later when i have more time, but if we just stick to the issues here, like this post does, i think we can have a productive chat

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  26. Link to Post #75
    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.
    Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Fwiw,

    On the issue of competence and hierarchies in Western society...I want to propose a middle ground here. The people most likely to succeed are those who have some generational wealth behind them (not always necessary, but it gives them a bit of an edge) who are highly competent and who are also ruthless and pitiless.

    Take Jeff Bezos, for example....Now, you could say he's highly competent. Sure. Has society truly benefited from Amazon? Looked at one way, sheer convenience, yeah...Looked at another way...monopolization of retail and expanding across sectors illegal business practices (I can elaborate but won't here).

    Not to mention the malinvestment of so many investors piling into this stock and a few others, which starves a real community of needed capital. He pays as little as he can get away with to his employees and works around providing health care by using temp workers. Workers who may have had a shot at starting their own little retail operations could not get past the Amazon barrier. Amazon has a sweet heart deal with delivery services and they don't pay taxes in Canada, though they ship their product here.

    In nature this would be seen as parasitism disguised as mutualism, or a mutualism evolving into pure parasitism.

    Bezos represents the very essence of success and you can say he is the most competent but you can also say, he is the most sociopathic, as well. Does society over all benefit when we reward people like him way too much? At a certain point, you can't say, "Well, he worked hard for it. He deserves it." No he doesn't, and no,
    we don't deserve his pathology.

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  29. Link to Post #77
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.
    Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.
    Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

    Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.

  30. Link to Post #78
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.
    Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.
    Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

    Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.
    I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

  31. Link to Post #79
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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.
    Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.
    Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

    Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.
    I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.
    Good luck with that. Don’t go in for blackmail.

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    Default Re: Mainstream Sportscasters Waking Up

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Justjane it would be really helpful if you could share why you support communism.  As you are well aware it is a word that could be said is very triggering to some as it is loaded with different interpretations, perspectives and experiences.

    I did read you mentioned being pushed for time so perhaps a brief list of communist ideals you support or a brief explanation of what advantages you see in communism; in other words how do you imagine a communist society to look like.

    I'm genuinely interested in the contemporary marxist/communist view and if there are others of like mind; perhaps some links that I could look at.

    If you are able to share information on this topic perhaps a new thread would be helpful for discussion.  Thanks.
    Well in theory Communism is of course one of the best systems out there. Way better then Capitalism. Communism is all about sharing, cooperating, equality etc. While Capitalism is all about competing, rich get richer, 1 percent owns more then half of the worlds wealth etc.
    I don't think any of our current rigid exclusive systems as designed are the answer. We need to start thinking outside the boxes.
    Yeah i agree with you there. Personally i love the ideas like a resourced based economy. Or a donut economy. There are plenty of things to use. Problem is that the people at the top are not open for this kind of ideas. So the whole fake democracy system should be changed as well. Bottum up democracy seems like the way to go.
    Absolutely but both of these are just derivations of communism and are so named to delineate their association.

    I found it interesting that the alt right videos I’ve been watching lately have started attacking and demonising technocratic economic principles. No surprise there.

    RBE needs a resurgence.
    Jane: you're quite good at sounding smart but more importantly, and i did ask nicely: do you have children? It's a pertinent question, simple to answer, and totally relevant. You could call it the relevant in the room, if you like.
    Why is having or not having children important? I’ve only just returned to this thread, not ignoring you, but I’m perplexed by the question.

    Also, can’t note anything contradictory in what I’ve written perhaps you’d like to explain.
    I'll respond to your question when you have answered mine. As I said, it's the relevant in the room.
    Good luck with that. Don’t go in for blackmail.
    Interesting response. Don't go in for obfuscation....and dishonesty....
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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