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Thread: Communism (and China)

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    delete it all.
    Last edited by Kamikaze; 13th November 2020 at 17:26.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    delete it all
    Last edited by Kamikaze; 13th November 2020 at 17:25.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)
    I think you’re confusing communism with totalitarianism.[COLOR="red"]
    Well not really, the two go hand-in-hand, that's the problem. The reason for that is: humans. The wider the bureaucracy (which communism requires to function) the more powerful the state becomes, and the more powerful the state the steeper the tilt towards totalitarianism. That's exactly what history has shown, time and again. I'm not critiquing the political, social, or the economic 'theory' of communism, merely the trend it follows to final conclusion, which is implosion - into bankruptcy, insurgency and revolution, or at the far end of the scale genocide.

    I think this is a very difficult discussion. Whatever merits there are "on paper" in the communist system, and there are some, they do not translate in reality. They just don't. The history proves it. Democracy doesn't work all that much better either, it too is different on paper than in reality, because of the exact same common denominators - invariably being elitism, the lust for power and the struggle for control. Our western democracies are waist deep in corruption, evil and greed. It's just a more behind the curtain type of totalitarianism. You may say then that capitalism is the problem. It isn't. It's still, and always, corruption, evil and greed in the system.

    It was definitely not what the ancient Greeks had in mind when they formulated the first democracy, which they called "δημοκρατία", or demos-kratos meaning people-rule. For the first time it wrested power from the clutches of a despot, a king, and handed it to the people. I still believe it is the best model there is, having the most checks and balances to prevent abuse. Of course the 'elites' toil endlessly to navigate their way around those checks and balances and to stay hidden in the shadows -- but at least they keep to those shadows. We in the west have the very best of it compared to the rest of the world, perhaps the best in all human history, with the exception of ancient days when we lived in harmony alongside nature. In our modern, technologically sophisticated world, and with 7billion+ of us to look after, democracy - people-rule - is the best chance we have, if only the corrupt, the greedy, and the evil could be removed completely from the equation.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    If it fully arrives and takes over, I don't think the new corporate communism will go bankrupt like the early test models did by design ( kinda like a terminator gene to stop it getting out of control before the whole plan was ready for it ).
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
    Seems more apt to live on earth. Most if not all animal species thrive wither and die in mother Earth's example.

    Maybe there's something there..

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
    Right. Someone should try to organize that.


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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Maybe we should give anarchy a try.
    Right. Someone should try to organize that.

    Ha Ha

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Well a few posts ago it was argued that any system is basically flawed. And for the most socialist i.e. communisme a totalitarian regime was mandatory. So we are settling for 2nd best. A weak simily of the democratic ideology corrupted by humans.
    Which as was argued is the end of every existing ideology which comes to "power". So some cataclysmic event and the anarchy for a few 100 years with the survivors of the aftermath...

    Who knows.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    I agree about the anarchy thing. But I mean self-sovereignty, self-informed and self-motivated. For that to occur we need a few tools released from the magical treasure trove of goodies under wraps in black op projects even the presidents don't know about...

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Here's the ideology on paper.
    A tad dated perhaps

    AlexanderBerkman-ABCofAnarchism.pdf

    Alexander Berkman's ABC of Anarchism. 1929
    Last edited by Catsquotl; 11th July 2020 at 06:57.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Childhood's End
    With the current chaos and lawlessness in cities, I am reminded of Arthur C. Clarke's masterpiece futuristic scifi novel, Childhood's End.
    If you haven't read it, at the end of the story the children of the world are so disconnected from the rest of the populace that they gather together in a trance-like existence as one mind, used to do the bidding of the all-powerful Overmind which controls them.
    Finally a huge column of flame appears and in Earth’s final moments in the year 2125, the planet evaporates, leaving no trace that it had ever existed.

    I am reminded of that story because people, especially young people now, seem to have increasingly less appreciation of history and consequently little understanding of how the world really works.
    They are so entranced and hardwired into their cell phones that they seem like they would be very easy prey to the takeover of AI.
    In Childhood's End the "Final Solution" that the young arrive at for Earth is simply to vaporize it completely.

    We can only wonder how many other worlds which, when they reach the point of being technologically able to destroy themselves or to create a Golden Age, end in destruction.
    In Clarke's novel, it's the open arrival of an advanced ET race, The Overlords, that brings about a temporarily more ordered society on Earth, but in the end even the Overlords are helpless to stop them when the children of Earth become one with "The Overmind", something which the Overlords have been unable to do themselves.

    If the Annunaki, as Sitchin and others have suggested, have been the Overlords of Earth (and perhaps still are to some degree, through their puppets here), and they are ruled by the Reptilians who are in turn ruled by AI, we can draw some parallels from the story to our own reality.
    From what I have gathered, it's the Reptilians wish to genetically engineer a hybrid race that they can incarnate into that will provide them with the best traits of both races in order to jumpstart their own evolution, but the objective of AI seems to be simply to destroy organic life.
    Which brings me to the question: is the Multi-Verse evolving, or simply revolving through endless cycles of creation and destruction?
    Childhood's End brings that question into focus in a unique and very troubling way that is evocative of developments we are seeing in the world today.

    How that relates to communism imho is that communism historically seems to discourage individuality and encourage conformity and people walking in lockstep, ie "hive mind"..
    There will always be those who choose otherwise, and often they are the most creative and innovate minds which should be encouraged, not squelched.
    Last edited by onawah; 10th July 2020 at 19:37.
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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)

    How that relates to communism imho is that communism historically seems to discourage individuality and encourage conformity and people walking in lockstep, ie "hive mind"..
    There will always be those who choose otherwise, and often they are the most creative and innovate minds which should be encouraged, not squelched.
    This isn’t true at all though. This is just what popular culture tells us. Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?

    The timing of the application of communism last century meant most people were forced into factory work. The monotony of factory work actually lead to increased creativity.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)

    Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?
    Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.
    Last edited by Constance; 11th July 2020 at 01:49.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by Justjane (here)

    Has anyone here actually lived through or known anyone who has experienced communism?
    Yep. I personally know people who have lived through it. I've been regailed with horrific stories regarding imprisonment, rape, torture and abuse. Not a whole bunch of creativity going on there, just a whole bunch of suffering.
    Interesting. My ex partner is Lithuanian which was part of the USSR. He has a very different impression. I imagine that people have an entire range of experiences under various types of rule. My point is, we shouldn’t be generalising or taking our cues from popular culture.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)


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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    We need to get rid of all the isms. They always seem to lead to violence


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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Someone wise once told me this :

    "The only time communism ever works is in the context of a nuclear family". - and he was right! I think it was designed that way.

    All the children get a standardized allowance, and everything is a shared resource within the nuclear family. Beyond the family it is a little more difficult.

    The furthest applications of communism also works for the military or in the context of a school where most of the students are of the same financial background in society.

    Anything beyond these contexts of institutionalized implementation is a disaster waiting to happen. To apply it to whole nations is tyranny. China is horrific (all the wealth in concentrated into the CCP). Any talk against the CCP is directly flagged by AI as dissent on your phone and lowers your social credit score. Millions are unable to travel nowadays due to their social credit score. No doubt millions were culled under the context of coronavirus without having covid. too many thrown alive into the cremation chambers. Communism in full swinging action right before your eyes.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by spade (here)
    No doubt millions were culled under the context of coronavirus without having covid. too many thrown alive into the cremation chambers. Communism in full swinging action right before your eyes.
    It almost seems like a competition these days as to who is the world's biggest boogeyman, Russia or China.

    This is a new one I've not heard before, that the "Chicoms" have been systematically disposing of unwanteds by throwing them alive into cremation chambers. Kinda reminds me of the lead up to the first Iraq war, the story of Saddam's troops supposedly throwing incubated babies on the floor, which was later shown to be totally untrue, but did it's intended job at the time by enraging the American public.

    Do we have any evidence that this was going on in China? I've got a feeling it's more along the lines of the Russiagaters still unverified claims that Trump is a "Putin Puppet".

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    ]

    It almost seems like a competition these days as to who is the world's biggest boogeyman, Russia or China.
    I would happily add America to that list. Maybe a little less grotesk in terms of cremating living human beings, but the end result is pretty much the same.

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    Default Re: Communism (and China)

    Hi gracy may - https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3881683
    “Chinese woman describes Wuhan virus patients being burned alive
    Video shows Chinese woman describe Wuhan coronavirus patients being stuffed into body bags and burned alive”

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