+ Reply to Thread
Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 12 18 LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 359

Thread: Cancel Culture (Examples)

  1. Link to Post #221
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Oh how I love it when you two get together, (Mike and Mark) and hash it out.  Deep, intelligent, honest, respectful dialogue on deep, important, sensitive cultural topics that need introspection and awareness.

    I would really love to see you both set up a weekly, fortnightly, or monthly podcast series where you discuss and track key cultural issues.

    Inviting viewers to contribute by sending in their position, experience and questions would add another level of community to the discussions.  And a guest voice could join in from time to time.

    You could keep your anonymity by just being "Mike and Mark".

    I really do think that fundamental, coherent and compatible solutions could arise from this process in the space you create.  You are perfect voices for representing both sides of a divide that could bring a powerful demonstration, and shift, for bridging gaps.

    Seeing two people "evolve together in public on meaningful topics" would beat any reality tv show in my book.

    But I do understand that writers often prefer to write because it is the better medium for conveying what they want to say so perhaps a couple of Avalon threads could be considered dedicated for this purpose.  A closed "Mike and Mark" thread for the two-way conversation, and an open "Mike and Mark Comments" thread for comments, sharing of experiences and questions.  

    My point is to create a council between two qualified representatives that can talk for as long as they like on topics, (rather than a few soundbite minutes in parliament), whilst including public contributions until satisfactory resolution evolves.

    What say you?
    I really like this idea, it sounds awesome and also like something that people can get behind! I think it would involve concentrating on the deeper issues, the things we share in common, as well as discussing the issues that divide in a contentious but friendly manner, closing the show with something that brings folks back together. Great stuff Gemma, thanks for thinking of it!


    I'll be on the internet sparingly for the next few weeks, but anytime after that I'm game for this kind of thing!

    I don't know anything about podcasts - it's a miracle I can turn my computer on and off - but starting some kind of thread here sounds like it could be fun and productive. I'm open to any and all ideas. I had one idea maybe a couple months ago which would require members to steel man any position they disagreed with...to, in good faith, make the best possible argument for something you actually disagreed with. It would be so painful! LOL! But I think hugely eye opening.

    It feels a little presumptuous starting a thread with my own name in it (Gemma, I'd rather see *you* and Mark discuss the issues!) But if the members are interested in watching Mark and I squabble like an old married couple, I'll do it No, in all seriousness I think it could be great. Mark I like how you outlined the spirit of it above. I think it would be fun to collaborate on a thread and do something resembling what Gemma suggested.
    Wonderful   Thank you both so much for your affirmations.

    I'm ignorant on forum policy for how this could proceed so would like to FORMALLY REQUEST Bill and Moderators to take a look at the suggested format and advise on the following:

    1.  Is it possible to set up the 2 Threads, (one closed, except for Mike and Mark, and one open for members contributions).

    2.  If possible can Moderators vote yay or nay or does voting need to go out to members?

    My vote is obviously Yay because:  If this space was created it could evolve into a "Here's How" prototype that demonstrates not only how to bridge gaps of division but creatively inspires workable solutions that could then be lobbied into political and social arenas; let alone providing a valuable resource for people to use, and refer people to, when encountering the division topics in family, friend and work situations.



    [Mike - thanks for the vote of confidence but I wouldn't even come close to being able to respond with the ease and fluidity and clarity that you (and Mark) display.  I would support you both though by being a dedicated contributor on the discussion thread sharing experiences, research, analysis and questions.]  

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (2nd April 2021), Mark (25th March 2021), Mike (24th March 2021), rgray222 (24th March 2021)

  3. Link to Post #222
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    In his latest podcast Richard Dolan (@1:21:00) made a comment that he learns more from his listeners who engage him with their comments and discourse than they learn from him.  I thought this was a great point in support of the recent proposal here to have two Avalon Members engage exclusively with each other on a closed thread that is hitched to a community thread for members to contribute.
    In other words a written vs verbal podcast.

    [Link to Dolans podcast. https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...1#post1418247]

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (2nd April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Mark (25th March 2021), Mike (2nd April 2021), rgray222 (26th March 2021)

  5. Link to Post #223
    Finland Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th September 2010
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,290
    Thanks
    8,985
    Thanked 21,027 times in 2,189 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Finally, someone has pushed back at the cancel culture and of all places a university. Every high school teacher, college professor, and administrators now have legal precedent and protection from punishment. I am sure this unanimous decision by the 6th Circuit Court has sent a shockwave through the entire educational system.

    Professor who refused school order on transgender student’s pronouns wins in court



    An Ohio college professor who resisted his school’s orders to go along with transgender students’ preferred pronouns has won his First Amendment case before a federal appeals court.

    In a unanimous ruling, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said that Shawnee State University violated Prof. Nicholas Meriwether’s rights of free speech and free exercise of religion by punishing him for resisting school rules that forced him to address students in the terms of their choosing.

    Meriwether, a philosophy professor and devout Christian, sued Shawnee State, claiming that its mandate to use terms that conflict with biology infringed on his religious belief that gender is fixed from the moment of conception.

    The court’s decision, written by a judge appointed to the bench by President Trump and issued Friday, upheld Meriwether’s argument.

    “The First Amendment interests are especially strong here because Meriwether’s speech also relates to his core religious and philosophical beliefs,” Judge Amul Thapar wrote in a 32-page decision.

    “If professors lacked free-speech protections when teaching, a university would wield alarming power to compel ideological conformity,” add Thapar — who was widely seen last year as a contender for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s seat on the US Supreme Court.

    Meriwether, a 25-year member of the Shawnee State faculty, was reprimanded in 2016 after a transgender student complained that he used of “Mr.” instead of “Ms.” when responding to the student in class. The ruling clears the way for the professor to pursue a lawsuit seeking damages.

    “Nobody should be forced to contradict their core beliefs just to keep their job,” said John Bursch, a lawyer with the conservative Alliance Defending Freedom who represented Meriwether in court.

    Source: https://nypost.com/2021/03/27/prof-w...wins-in-court/

  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to rgray222 For This Post:

    atman (16th May 2021), Bill Ryan (2nd April 2021), Chris Gilbert (2nd April 2021), Ewan (3rd April 2021), Icare (5th April 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (5th April 2021), Mike (2nd April 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021)

  7. Link to Post #224
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Finally, someone has pushed back at the cancel culture and of all places a university. Every high school teacher, college professor, and administrators now have legal precedent and protection from punishment. I am sure this unanimous decision by the 6th Circuit Court has sent a shockwave through the entire educational system.

    Professor who refused school order on transgender student’s pronouns wins in court



    An Ohio college professor who resisted his school’s orders to go along with transgender students’ preferred pronouns has won his First Amendment case before a federal appeals court.

    In a unanimous ruling, the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said that Shawnee State University violated Prof. Nicholas Meriwether’s rights of free speech and free exercise of religion by punishing him for resisting school rules that forced him to address students in the terms of their choosing.

    Meriwether, a philosophy professor and devout Christian, sued Shawnee State, claiming that its mandate to use terms that conflict with biology infringed on his religious belief that gender is fixed from the moment of conception.

    The court’s decision, written by a judge appointed to the bench by President Trump and issued Friday, upheld Meriwether’s argument.

    “The First Amendment interests are especially strong here because Meriwether’s speech also relates to his core religious and philosophical beliefs,” Judge Amul Thapar wrote in a 32-page decision.

    “If professors lacked free-speech protections when teaching, a university would wield alarming power to compel ideological conformity,” add Thapar — who was widely seen last year as a contender for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s seat on the US Supreme Court.

    Meriwether, a 25-year member of the Shawnee State faculty, was reprimanded in 2016 after a transgender student complained that he used of “Mr.” instead of “Ms.” when responding to the student in class. The ruling clears the way for the professor to pursue a lawsuit seeking damages.

    “Nobody should be forced to contradict their core beliefs just to keep their job,” said John Bursch, a lawyer with the conservative Alliance Defending Freedom who represented Meriwether in court.

    Source: https://nypost.com/2021/03/27/prof-w...wins-in-court/
    Well that's some good news Finally a positive turn for the better.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (2nd April 2021), Icare (5th April 2021), Mike (2nd April 2021), rgray222 (2nd April 2021)

  9. Link to Post #225
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,410
    Thanks
    211,308
    Thanked 459,494 times in 32,928 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Oh how I love it when you two get together, (Mike and Mark) and hash it out. Deep, intelligent, honest, respectful dialogue on deep, important, sensitive cultural topics that need introspection and awareness.

    I would really love to see you both set up a weekly, fortnightly, or monthly podcast series where you discuss and track key cultural issues.

    Inviting viewers to contribute by sending in their position, experience and questions would add another level of community to the discussions. And a guest voice could join in from time to time.

    You could keep your anonymity by just being "Mike and Mark".

    I really do think that fundamental, coherent and compatible solutions could arise from this process in the space you create. You are perfect voices for representing both sides of a divide that could bring a powerful demonstration, and shift, for bridging gaps.

    Seeing two people "evolve together in public on meaningful topics" would beat any reality tv show in my book.

    But I do understand that writers often prefer to write because it is the better medium for conveying what they want to say so perhaps a couple of Avalon threads could be considered dedicated for this purpose. A closed "Mike and Mark" thread for the two-way conversation, and an open "Mike and Mark Comments" thread for comments, sharing of experiences and questions.

    My point is to create a council between two qualified representatives that can talk for as long as they like on topics, (rather than a few soundbite minutes in parliament), whilst including public contributions until satisfactory resolution evolves.

    What say you?
    I really like this idea, it sounds awesome and also like something that people can get behind! I think it would involve concentrating on the deeper issues, the things we share in common, as well as discussing the issues that divide in a contentious but friendly manner, closing the show with something that brings folks back together. Great stuff Gemma, thanks for thinking of it!
    I'll be on the internet sparingly for the next few weeks, but anytime after that I'm game for this kind of thing!

    I don't know anything about podcasts - it's a miracle I can turn my computer on and off - but starting some kind of thread here sounds like it could be fun and productive. I'm open to any and all ideas. I had one idea maybe a couple months ago which would require members to steel man any position they disagreed with...to, in good faith, make the best possible argument for something you actually disagreed with. It would be so painful! LOL! But I think hugely eye opening.

    It feels a little presumptuous starting a thread with my own name in it (Gemma, I'd rather see *you* and Mark discuss the issues!) But if the members are interested in watching Mark and I squabble like an old married couple, I'll do it No, in all seriousness I think it could be great. Mark I like how you outlined the spirit of it above. I think it would be fun to collaborate on a thread and do something resembling what Gemma suggested.
    Wonderful Thank you both so much for your affirmations.

    I'm ignorant on forum policy for how this could proceed so would like to FORMALLY REQUEST Bill and Moderators to take a look at the suggested format and advise on the following:

    1. Is it possible to set up the 2 Threads, (one closed, except for Mike and Mark, and one open for members contributions).

    2. If possible can Moderators vote yay or nay or does voting need to go out to members?
    Mod response from Bill:
    1. Yes, we know we can do that. We just have to remember how!
    2. The mods are happy to okay this, for sure.

  10. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Ewan (3rd April 2021), kudzy (3rd April 2021), Mark (13th April 2021), Mike (2nd April 2021), rgray222 (2nd April 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021), Tintin (2nd April 2021), Yoda (2nd April 2021)

  11. Link to Post #226
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    Oh how I love it when you two get together, (Mike and Mark) and hash it out. Deep, intelligent, honest, respectful dialogue on deep, important, sensitive cultural topics that need introspection and awareness.

    I would really love to see you both set up a weekly, fortnightly, or monthly podcast series where you discuss and track key cultural issues.

    Inviting viewers to contribute by sending in their position, experience and questions would add another level of community to the discussions. And a guest voice could join in from time to time.

    You could keep your anonymity by just being "Mike and Mark".

    I really do think that fundamental, coherent and compatible solutions could arise from this process in the space you create. You are perfect voices for representing both sides of a divide that could bring a powerful demonstration, and shift, for bridging gaps.

    Seeing two people "evolve together in public on meaningful topics" would beat any reality tv show in my book.

    But I do understand that writers often prefer to write because it is the better medium for conveying what they want to say so perhaps a couple of Avalon threads could be considered dedicated for this purpose. A closed "Mike and Mark" thread for the two-way conversation, and an open "Mike and Mark Comments" thread for comments, sharing of experiences and questions.

    My point is to create a council between two qualified representatives that can talk for as long as they like on topics, (rather than a few soundbite minutes in parliament), whilst including public contributions until satisfactory resolution evolves.

    What say you?
    I really like this idea, it sounds awesome and also like something that people can get behind! I think it would involve concentrating on the deeper issues, the things we share in common, as well as discussing the issues that divide in a contentious but friendly manner, closing the show with something that brings folks back together. Great stuff Gemma, thanks for thinking of it!
    I'll be on the internet sparingly for the next few weeks, but anytime after that I'm game for this kind of thing!

    I don't know anything about podcasts - it's a miracle I can turn my computer on and off - but starting some kind of thread here sounds like it could be fun and productive. I'm open to any and all ideas. I had one idea maybe a couple months ago which would require members to steel man any position they disagreed with...to, in good faith, make the best possible argument for something you actually disagreed with. It would be so painful! LOL! But I think hugely eye opening.

    It feels a little presumptuous starting a thread with my own name in it (Gemma, I'd rather see *you* and Mark discuss the issues!) But if the members are interested in watching Mark and I squabble like an old married couple, I'll do it No, in all seriousness I think it could be great. Mark I like how you outlined the spirit of it above. I think it would be fun to collaborate on a thread and do something resembling what Gemma suggested.
    Wonderful Thank you both so much for your affirmations.

    I'm ignorant on forum policy for how this could proceed so would like to FORMALLY REQUEST Bill and Moderators to take a look at the suggested format and advise on the following:

    1. Is it possible to set up the 2 Threads, (one closed, except for Mike and Mark, and one open for members contributions).

    2. If possible can Moderators vote yay or nay or does voting need to go out to members?
    Mod response from Bill:
    1. Yes, we know we can do that. We just have to remember how!
    2. The mods are happy to okay this, for sure.
    That's awesome. Many thanks to you all and hope the logistics aren't creating too much hassle. Will be in touch soon.

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (5th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Mark (13th April 2021), Mike (13th April 2021), rgray222 (14th April 2021)

  13. Link to Post #227
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,410
    Thanks
    211,308
    Thanked 459,494 times in 32,928 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    This is quite a long and meandering post — with some entertainment. It's all about how the world of rock climbing might be hit by Cancel Culture.

    It's not really happened yet. But it might. (Who knew this was possible?)

    When rock climbers climb a new route — a way up a cliff that's never been climbed before — they name it. Tradition over nearly a century dictates that the first ascensionist gets to name their new climb.

    And this has a very practical purpose, because you've got to name the thing to describe to others where it is, how to climb it, who else has repeated it, and so on.

    Now, rock climbers (and yours truly was one in his day) are almost 100% always strong-headed mavericks with little respect for authority. Here's an iconic photo from 1975, showing three of the finest climbers in Yosemite Valley. (For the record, from left to right: Billy Westbay, Jim Bridwell and John Long.)



    These guys were highly skilled, safe, responsible athletes, the best in the world. They'd think nothing of endangering themselves to help, or rescue, another climber. And — as you may guess from the photo — they had absolutely zero respect for authority of any kind.

    An anecdote here, one of the very best. Back at that time, a Mexican drug plane crashed deep in Yosemite National Park, with no survivors. These guys (with a whole team of their buddies) immediately rappelled into the scene, days ahead of any police or park rangers. A little book containing names and addresses was dispatched to the high winds. And when the authorities did finally reach the plane, the drugs had mysteriously all gone.

    So, back to climbing route names. Climbers (a) have a great sense of fun, and (b) are usually highly inventive. So route names are sometimes marvelous to behold.

    A few examples:
    • Oedipus, Ring Your Mother
    • Tequila Mockingbird
    • A route (on a cliff called 'Hen Crag') called Poultry in Motion
    • Two new routes next to one another, one called Godliness and the other called Cleanliness
    • Kipling Groove (so called because it was "Ruddy 'Ard")
    • A whole bunch named after Carlos Castaneda: Separate Reality, Tales of Power, Journey to Ixtlan, and so on
    • (my favorite of all ) A strange climb that went up the back of a cave and then emerged through a hole in the top. It was called Subterranean Rabbit Launcher. (That still makes me laugh out loud.)
    There are countless other wonderful names, all over the world. The Australians (of course!) were not to be outdone. Two climbs there are called
    • Nurse, Increase the Sedative
    • Tchaikovsky made my Dog Fart.
    All this is part of climbing lore and legend. It's deeply ingrained in the maverick culture. I'm sure there are a few risqué names, but I never once encountered them in all my climbing career.

    BUT NOW the American Alpine Club has launched a project to censor route names that may be offensive. Of course, climbers can say whatever they like to each other, but the censorship would apply when the names are formally cited in articles or guide books.

    My guess: most climbers (maybe 99.99% of them) will laugh and totally ignore all this. So, we'll get to see what the pushback is. (But nevertheless, OMG )
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 13th April 2021 at 14:40.

  14. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Alan (13th April 2021), atman (16th May 2021), avid (13th April 2021), ClearWater (14th April 2021), Constance (13th April 2021), Eva2 (13th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), holcaul (14th April 2021), Ivanhoe (17th May 2021), kudzy (13th April 2021), Mark (13th April 2021), Mike (13th April 2021), rgray222 (13th April 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021), Sue (Ayt) (13th April 2021), Yoda (13th April 2021)

  15. Link to Post #228
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    This is quite a long and meandering post — with some entertainment. It's all about how the world of rock climbing might be hit by Cancel Culture.

    It's not really happened yet. But it might. (Who knew this was possible?)

    When rock climbers climb a new route — a way up a cliff that's never been climbed before — they name it. Tradition over nearly a century dictates that the first ascensionist gets to name their new climb.

    And this has a very practical purpose, because you've got to name the thing to describe to others where it is, how to climb it, who else has repeated it, and so on.

    Now, rock climbers (and yours truly was one in his day) are almost 100% always strong-headed mavericks with little respect for authority. Here's an iconic photo from 1975, showing three of the finest climbers in Yosemite Valley. (For the record, from left to right: Billy Westbay, Jim Bridwell and John Long.)



    These guys were highly skilled, safe, responsible athletes, the best in the world. They'd think nothing of endangering themselves to help, or rescue, another climber. And — as you may guess from the photo — they had absolutely zero respect for authority of any kind.

    An anecdote here, one of the very best. Back at that time, a Mexican drug plane crashed deep in Yosemite National Park, with no survivors. These guys (with a whole team of their buddies) immediately rappelled into the scene, days ahead of any police or park rangers. A little book containing names and addresses was dispatched to the high winds. And when the authorities did finally reach the plane, the drugs had mysteriously all gone.

    So, back to climbing route names. Climbers (a) have a great sense of fun, and (b) are usually highly inventive. So route names are sometimes marvelous to behold.

    A few examples:
    • Oedipus, Ring Your Mother
    • Tequila Mockingbird
    • A route (on a cliff called 'Hen Crag') called Poultry in Motion
    • Two new routes next to one another, one called Godliness and the other called Cleanliness
    • Kipling Groove (so called because it was "Ruddy 'Ard")
    • A whole bunch named after Carlos Castaneda: Separate Reality, Tales of Power, Journey to Ixtlan, and so on
    • (my favorite of all ) A strange climb that went up the back of a cave and then emerged through a hole in the top. It was called Subterranean Rabbit Launcher. (That still makes me laugh out loud.)
    There are countless other wonderful names, all over the world. The Australians (of course!) were not to be outdone. Two climbs there are called
    • Nurse, Increase the Sedative
    • Tchaikovsky made my Dog Fart.
    All this is part of climbing lore and legend. It's deeply ingrained in the maverick culture. I'm sure there are a few risqué names, but I never once encountered them in all my climbing career.

    BUT NOW the American Alpine Club has launched a project to censor route names that may be offensive. Of course, climbers can say whatever they like to each other, but the censorship would apply when the names are formally cited in articles or guide books.

    My guess: most climbers (maybe 99.99% of them) will laugh and totally ignore all this. So, we'll get to see what the pushback is. (But nevertheless, OMG )
    Couldn't help myself.  Googled "is rock climbing racist".  See this post for context:

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1409839

    Turns out there are loads of articles.  Here are two with some surprising results.


    https://www.thelily.com/climbing-rou...change-it-all/

    Climbing routes are riddled with racist and misogynistic names. Meet the people trying to change it all.In one survey, 91% of climbers said they have come across a route name they find offensive.

    Amanda Loudin  Nov. 30, 2020

    Melissa Utomo, a 29-year-old Asian American Web developer, is used to being the only woman and person of color when she rock-climbs.

    A few years back, on a climbing trip to Wyoming, she was in just that position when her group arrived at a big section of Ten Sleep Canyon called the “Slavery Wall.” As the climbers challenged themselves on some of the wall’s routes, the troubling names mounted: “Happiness in Slavery.” “Welfare Crack.”

    “I couldn’t really process or absorb the names at the time, because I was in this group of all White men,” Utomo said. “But when I returned home to Colorado, I started reading up on other violent, oppressive route names, and I realized I needed to do something.”

    Utomo is part of a growing chorus of female and BIPOC climbers (climbers who are Black, Indigenous or people of color) working for change in the sport, particularly in the area of route names. Their task is a daunting one, sometimes placing them at odds with a climbing world dominated by White men.

    But Utomo and others like her are beginning to make an impact. In June, amid mounting pushback and rising protests against racial injustice, local developers renamed the Slavery Wall and some of its similarly offense-raising routes. The wall region will now be known as the “Downpour Wall,” while some of the other re-brandings were even simpler: “Happiness in Slavery” — a route named after a Nine Inch Nails song that also inspired the “Slavery Wall” name — is now just “Happiness.”

    The way that such routes are named in the first place is straightforward and done without much oversight. When you become the first climber to successfully map out a new route — a “first ascender” — you earn the privilege of naming it. Beyond the Slavery Wall, in some corners of North America that has led to monikers such as “Gold Digger,” “Kitty Porn,” “Clean Shaven Girls” and “Astride my Indian Queen.” In a Medium post in July, self-described “novice climber” Sena Crow recalled being appalled by Texas routes such as “Schizophrenia” and “Third Reich.”

    Utomo said climbing has a system of gatekeeping baked into its culture that makes speaking up about offensive names intimidating. “We’ve normalized worshiping the first ascenders,” she said. “If you’re a new climber, it takes a lot of courage to speak up.”

    Snews, an outdoor-industry magazine, and the 57hours app, which connects users with mountain guides, each recently surveyed outdoor adventurers to gauge their knowledge and opinions of route names. Asked whether they had ever encountered a route name that they considered racist, sexist, discriminatory or otherwise offensive, 91 percent of SNEWS readers and 65 percent of 57hours mountain guides said yes. Digging deeper, the 57hours survey inquired whether the prevalence of certain route names deterred women and BIPOC adventurers from participating in sports such as climbing and mountain biking. Forty-three percent of guides answered yes.

    Ebony Roberts, managing editor at 57hours, said she wasn’t altogether surprised by the responses. “I was a little saddened, though,” she said, “to see some women express the sentiment that essentially, you just have to suck it up if you want to play.”

    When 57Hours guides encounter a route with an offensive name, Roberts said, they don’t necessarily avoid it. “They just don’t tell the client the name of the route,” she said. “They shouldn’t have to lie or hide it. The names need to change — full stop.”

    Like Utomo, climbing instructor and high school teacher Christina Smyth is working to bring about that change. Smyth, of British Columbia, says she took note of the route names in that area when she began climbing 11 years ago.

    “With more free time this summer due to the pandemic, I decided I needed to make an effort for change,” Smyth said. “I started talking to other female climbers, and we began compiling a list of offensive route names. Then we decided which were most worth going after.” Topping the list were the flat-out racist or misogynistic names.

    But forcing a change can be challenging, requiring one to get the first ascender’s buy-in and then persuading guidebook authors to make the revision as well. “There’s a good deal of tracking people down and reaching out to them to request the change,” Smyth said. “So far we’ve made some progress, but we’ve also had some pushback. I’m working with others to make this a collaborative effort so that many voices can outweigh those who resist change.”

    For her part, Utomo has put her tech skills to use by developing a system that will allow climbers to flag problematic route names. She’s gained the support of affinity groups such as Brown Girls Climb, Women Crush Wednesdays and BelayAll.

    “In July, along with Brown Girls Climb, I participated in Erased, a virtual discussion about route names and reimagining what the climbing culture can be,” she said. “We now have a team of 11 people and launched a fundraiser to begin a research phase into building a new climbing app that is accessible [and] will allow route-name flagging and new route names. We’re invested in a long-term goal.”

    The efforts of Utomo and others have served to activate a joint effort with five outdoors organizations representing 150,000 members. The American Alpine Club, the Appalachian Mountain Club, the Colorado Mountain Club, Mazamas and the Mountaineers issued a joint statement this summer committing to creating a more respectful and inclusive community with an eye on abolishing offensive route names.

    “It’s important that we all spend this time dealing with the systemic oppression that is rampant in the climbing culture,” said Sarah Bradham, acting executive director of Mazamas.

    Taimur Ahmad said that as a person of color and a first ascender of several routes in the Sierras, he has been very conscious of the names he and his climbing partner — a woman — have selected together.

    “I’ve done climbs where I felt uncomfortable saying the name to a friend and I’d shorten it or change it,” Ahmad said. “I’m optimistic that the majority of organizations in the sport are in agreement with the need to change.”

    As with any cultural shift, effecting lasting change in the climbing culture will not happen overnight. But Utomo and others are emboldened to see it through.

    “I’m very optimistic,” Utomo said. “There are a lot of voices coming into the discussion. People are hungry for change.”


    https://www.dw.com/en/racism-sport-climbing/a-54090493

    Black Lives Matter movement provokes thought about racism in sport climbing

    The Black Lives Matter movement in the United States has also brought racism and a lack of diversity in sport climbing to the fore. The German climbing scene is no exception.

    "I hope that one day, racism doesn't exist, but for now, it is still an issue, and it has been an issue," Black climber Meagan Martin told DW. Martin believes racism "for most people, it's something that they don't witness regularly, but just because you don't always see it, doesn't mean it's not there. As a Black climber, I've always been aware of the presence of racism, but I've chosen not to let it bring me down, and instead make me stronger."

    Meagan Martin is a professional climber who has competed for the United States in World Cup competitions. She became famous for her agility in the obstacle course on the television show American Ninja Warrior. Martin has been actively involved in the Black Lives Matter movement. 

    "I think that we are already seeing how the acknowledgment that racism exists is impacting the climbing community," Martin said. "Companies are taking a step back and looking inward to see areas where they've failed to be an ally to the Black community and how they can do better moving forward. Many athletes are also taking this time to reflect, take accountability, and educate themselves to be a better ally." 

    People of Color are still underrepresented in sport climbing. A 2019 study in the United States showed that in national parks African-Americans made up just one percent of the visitors, despite accounting for around 13 percent of the entire population.

    Black journalist and author James Edward Mills describes this phenomenon as an "adventure gap." 

    "That lack of participation is the problem," Mills told National Geographic. "It's not a question of whether or not African-Americans can climb high mountains. What matters is as a group we tend not to. And for a variety of different social and cultural reasons the world of mountaineering has been relegated almost exclusively to white men."

    Black climbers are not just the exception on climbing walls, but also on expeditions to the world's largest mountains.

    One of the reasons for this is a "lack of Black role models in sport climbing," said Molly Thompson-Smith.

    "I'm constantly aware of how I 'stick out'," said the 22-year-old, who is already one of biggest talents in British climbing and has reached the podium at a World Cup event. "For some people I think this could be a reason to avoid starting climbing, due to feeling uncomfortable or just a lack of connection to the sport. With a lack of Black role models to relate to within the sport, I'm not surprised people of color may not feel like they could see themselves being a part of the community." 

    Not only that, but climbing "is a fairly expensive sport especially if you want to have nice gear, memberships at different walls, and travel for climbing on rock or in competitions. This will influence who can be a part of the community and become a barrier to those from less privileged backgrounds."

    Meant as a joke but wide of the mark

    Thompson-Smith said that she has only personally experienced racism a handful of times.

    "When it has happened in a climbing gym it's been 'harmless' comments or jokes I've just shrugged off. I'm white and Black Caribbean with fairly light skin – it's my hair that is the 'giveaway.' Jokes from friends about my skin tone or people wanting to touch my hair in fascination were normal in my climbing childhood, and I never told people how it really felt to be the subject of those words/actions. It may have not meant to be offensive, but I wouldn't be so accepting of these comments nowadays."

    Like Meagan Martin, Molly Thompson-Smith is also taking an active role in the Black Lives Matter movement. 

    "I've found the last month very emotionally draining, but it's also made me quite hopeful," Thompson-Smith said. "I admit, I could have been – and should have been better when it came to racism. I could have educated people on how their 'jokes' or 'observations' about people of color were not appropriate. The situation has made me want to do more to encourage more diversity within the climbing community, and to make sure it feels like a safe and welcoming place for people of any background to be a part of."

    'White, male dominated club' 

    Last week the respected editor-in-chief and publisher of the US climbing magazine Rock and Ice, Duane Raleigh, resigned – under extraordinary circumstances.  

    "We were young and could climb and enjoy risks because we had freedoms that non-white America does not have," he said. "We were part of a culture that I regret. White privilege let our 'fraternity' exist, and we could be inappropriate, and do just about anything without consequences. Broadly speaking, the white, male-dominated club still exists worldwide."

    Raleigh also apologized for something he did when he was a young man – using the N-word to name a route that he had conquered. 

    Fresh discussion

    The Black Lives Matter movement has sparked a discussion about discriminatory names being used for climbing routes. In mountain climbing, whoever conquers a route for the first time has the right to name it. What may be an attempt at humor can be deeply insulting. 

    US climbers, for example, have now spoken out in favor of boycotting the "N****** Wall" in the Owens River Gorge in Eastern California until the insulting name is replaced. The climbing portal mountainproject.com maintains a list of "bad names," route names that are perceived as racist, sexist or otherwise discriminatory. The list now includes more than 2,000 names.  

    Discriminatory route names in Germany 

    Germany is no exception when it comes to discriminatory names. Among them are "Der N**** mit dem Knackarsch" in the Franconian Jura, a popular climbing region in southern Germany. The climbing portal frankenjura.com lists two further route names that included the N-word ("N****kuss" and "Scharfer N****). 

    A fourth route ("Indianer and Bambusn****") has since been renamed. 

    "Even though the story behind it was a lot of fun, the name is no longer tenable in today's world," explained the first person to conquer that route.

    This would also apply to "Bimboland," as part of a climbing region near Kochel am See in Bavaria has been named. It includes a term often used by right-wing extremists.  

    No easy fix

    The German Alpine Association (DAV) said in response to a DW query that it is important to "stand up for equality and diversity at all levels."

    However, according to Steffen Reich, the DAV's head of nature conservation and cartography department, the scope for action is limited.

    "Firstly, the route names are not assigned by us but by the first ascenders. And secondly, we do not keep a database and do not create climbing guides in which the discriminatory names are listed, so we can't simply change them," he said. 

    According to Reich, the only practical way forward is to impress upon authors, publishers and climbing portals the need "to work towards changing or deleting the discriminatory names."  

    Racism is now a topic of discussion in the sport-climbing community – not only in the United States and Germany.

    "It is comforting to know that my climbing peers are taking a second to see the world through my lens and the differences that do exist," Meghan Martin said. "I was born this way, this is the life I've chosen to lead, and I am proud to be a black woman in the climbing community."

  16. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    atman (16th May 2021), Bill Ryan (13th April 2021), ClearWater (14th April 2021), Constance (13th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), happyuk (13th April 2021), Mark (13th April 2021), Mike (13th April 2021), rgray222 (14th April 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021), Sue (Ayt) (13th April 2021)

  17. Link to Post #229
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,799
    Thanks
    35,825
    Thanked 50,583 times in 5,714 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Rock climbing is a deadly serious business, but it's mostly a recreational activity. Anyone can climb. No one is stopping you.

    When you become a new member of any community, you should be nervous to speak up. Maybe you shouldn't say anything at all for a while, out of respect. Newly arriving climbers offering their opinions on trail names is vastly more obnoxious than the most obnoxious trail name you can muster. You have to earn the right to offer an opinion, at least one that will be respected anyway.

    These people that discover new routes risk their lives in the process. They should be able to call them whatever they damn please. Any newbie fool that arrives demanding changes should immediately be punched in the nose. It is an exclusive club, and appropriately so. It's based on merit, skill, courage, and bravery.

    There are more men in climbing because men are better athletes. They're bigger, stronger, faster, and more likely to take risks than women. This is no mystery. It's nothing to do with misogyny.

    The reason the climbers are mostly white likely has more to do with culture than racism. Black men would make fantastic climbers. No doubt. All it would take is one transcendent black climber to make the sport "cool" for the youth and they'd be off to the races. It just hasn't happened yet. There are alot of things that haven't happened yet, and the reasons aren't all sinister.

    For the time being, so what if it's a white, male dominated club? What's wrong with that? American football is a black, male dominated club. The beauty industry is an Asian, female dominated club. No one is clamoring for more diversity in those areas.

    The only trail name listed in the article that should be changed is the one involving the n-word. The rest are fine. Most are deeply ironic, not cruel.
    Last edited by Mike; 13th April 2021 at 17:12.

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    Alan (13th April 2021), atman (16th May 2021), Constance (13th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), rgray222 (13th April 2021)

  19. Link to Post #230
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,410
    Thanks
    211,308
    Thanked 459,494 times in 32,928 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    I'm [largely!] going to sit on my hands with this one — the 100% non-issue of race discrimination in climbing.
    • The best female rock climber in the world is Japanese.
    • The best male rock climber in the world is Czech.
    • The best high-altitude climber in the world is Nepalese. (Closely followed by the Russians, the Poles and the Pakistanis.)
    There's nothing to stop black Americans from climbing. You just buy the gear, find a companion, and do it.

    That's what everyone else does. No-one has to watch, no-one has to know. You just do whatever you want to. That's how it's all supposed to work. Climbing is fundamentally all about freedom, and always has been.

    The finest ever winter high-altitude climber was a Pole, who worked double shifts on building sites and smuggled things to and from Nepal to pay for the expensive climbing permits there. He had very little money, ever — but was driven by passion, determination, and a personality of unbreakable steel.

    If you're a real mountaineer, of any kind at all, you're not supposed to complain. About anything at all. Period.

  20. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    atman (16th May 2021), Constance (13th April 2021), DSKlausler (14th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), happyuk (14th April 2021), holcaul (14th April 2021), Icare (14th April 2021), Mark (13th April 2021), Mike (13th April 2021), Peace in Oz (16th April 2021), rgray222 (13th April 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021), sunwings (13th April 2021), Yoda (13th April 2021)

  21. Link to Post #231
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,410
    Thanks
    211,308
    Thanked 459,494 times in 32,928 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Traffic signals are now racist. (Yes, really. This article is serious.)


    In Ecuador, the little crossing man is green. (But maybe he's an alien)

  22. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Alan (15th April 2021), atman (16th May 2021), ClearWater (14th April 2021), Constance (14th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), holcaul (14th April 2021), Icare (14th April 2021), Mike (15th April 2021), rgray222 (3rd May 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021), Yoda (15th April 2021)

  23. Link to Post #232
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Language
    English
    Posts
    3,453
    Thanks
    20,718
    Thanked 25,438 times in 3,321 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Constance; 14th November 2021 at 01:38.

  24. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Constance For This Post:

    atman (16th May 2021), Bill Ryan (14th April 2021), ClearWater (14th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), holcaul (14th April 2021), Icare (14th April 2021), Ivanhoe (17th May 2021), Mike (15th April 2021), rgray222 (3rd May 2021), Rosemarie (14th April 2021)

  25. Link to Post #233
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,799
    Thanks
    35,825
    Thanked 50,583 times in 5,714 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Will Knowland, formerly an English teacher at Eton College, was fired recently for refusing to remove a lecture from his youtube channel about gender roles. He argues that biology largely determines gender roles. And, well, that's all it took.

    This video is an hour long but well worth it. Quite a few topics are discussed:

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (16th May 2021), Bill Ryan (18th April 2021), Constance (19th April 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), rgray222 (3rd May 2021)

  27. Link to Post #234
    Finland Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th September 2010
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,290
    Thanks
    8,985
    Thanked 21,027 times in 2,189 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Worth the read from the Wall Street Journal

    The Man They Couldn’t Cancel
    Mobs have targeted Jordan Peterson, but he hasn’t lost his university job and his publishers have stuck by him. What’s his secret?



    The term “cancel culture,” like “political correctness” before it, is a comical expression for an ugly cultural pathology. To be canceled—an older, closely related term is “blacklisted”—is to have your public persona or influence assailed, typically by a sizable mob, for some real or perceived offense against progressive orthodoxy, whatever that orthodoxy may hold at the moment. For that to happen, you must possess some form of authority in the first place: an academic post, a political office, a role in the entertainment industry, employment with a “mainstream” media organization, a voice as an intellectual or imaginative writer.

    But the targets of cancellation, having derived their legitimacy from consensus left-liberal culture, are typically not very good at defending themselves, or even understanding what happened to them. Often they apologize, despite having said or done nothing wrong, which only emboldens the cancelers. Or they fall back on pieties about free speech and the marketplace of ideas, as if their tormentors still believed in those principles.

    One target of cancellation who is able to speak intelligently about it is Jordan Peterson, the University of Toronto clinical psychologist, YouTube lecturer, and author of “12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos” (2018) and “Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life,” published in March.

    If you’re an ordinary curious person, Mr. Peterson won’t strike you as a likely target for moral outrage. He brings together a dizzying array of texts and traditions—Jungian psychoanalysis, the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, Frederick Nietzsche, Søren Kierkegaard and much else—to formulate basic lessons, or “rules,” about how humans might overcome their natural tendency to lassitude and savagery. His books, podcasts and lectures are impressively argued, frequently insightful and occasionally abrasive presentations of various principles of wise living.

    I don’t share some of Mr. Peterson’s philosophical premises and find in his work points of disagreement, but there is much to appreciate and nothing sinister in them. Twenty years ago very few people would have considered him the intellectual subversive and moral monster many now claim him to be. A few rules from his latest book: “Do not do what you hate,” “Work as hard as you possibly can on at least one thing and see what happens,” “Try to make one room in your home as beautiful as possible.

    Why has the political left taken a severe dislike to him? “A lot of my popularity derives from YouTube,” he says in a phone interview, “and YouTube skewed hard male for a long time, and is still mostly male. My typical audience would probably be between 60/40 and 70/30 men to women. There’s nothing conspiratorial about that, and it wasn’t because I was talking specifically to young men. It might be that they’re more desperate for what I’m saying.”

    The stereotypical Peterson fan, it’s probably fair to say, is a young white male whose life lacked structure and discipline but heard Mr. Peterson’s lectures and began to reorder his life. Mr. Peterson insists, though, that his critics caricature his audience for their own ends. “There’s this hypothetical group that I’m helping,” he says: “angry, alienated, disenfranchised white-supremacist young males. First of all, that’s a lie. Second, even if it is disenfranchised young males who are primarily responding to what I’m saying, is there really something wrong with me talking to them? Are they so beneath contempt that they don’t deserve anyone’s attention?”

    Those who despise Mr. Peterson think of him as a member of “the right” or even “the far right.” I wouldn’t describe him as a conservative—his interest lies in individual rather than societal order, and he says little about public policy. But it’s true that he not infrequently winds up holding conservative viewpoints on cultural matters. In “Beyond Order,” for example, he makes the case for marriage over cohabitation and readily acknowledges that children do better in two-parent families than in single-parent ones. He also writes and speaks frequently on the differences between masculinity and femininity.

    But what put Mr. Peterson in the crosshairs of North America’s cultural arbiters was his vocal opposition to identity politics, and specifically the totalitarian methods of militant transgenderism. In 2016 he ran afoul of Bill C-16, legislation in the Canadian Parliament (later enacted) that added “gender identity or expression” to the list of prohibited grounds of discrimination. In the course of that controversy Mr. Peterson remarked that he would refuse to use contrived pronouns in his classes. “I regard these made-up pronouns, all of them, as neologisms of a radical PC authoritarianism,” he said in 2016. “I’m not going to be a mouthpiece for language I detest.”

    Since then he has been denounced as racist, misogynist, fascist and transphobic. Occasionally violent protests against him have taken place on the University of Toronto campus, and he is regularly shouted down at speaking events. When Penguin Random House Canada announced that it would publish “Beyond Order,” its staff “confronted management,” according to media reports, in a tearful town-hall meeting.

    Contempt for the “working class” by North America’s “liberal educated elite,” is a major reason for his popularity, he says. “There aren’t very many people with an encouraging voice,” Mr. Peterson says. “Most of the things you read by intellectuals—not all, but it’s a failing of intellectuals—most of it is criticism. Look what you’re doing to the planet. What a detestable bunch of wretches you are, with your rapacious structures and your endless appetite and your desire for power. . . . Look at what your ambition has done to the planet. How dare you!”

    Mr. Peterson doesn’t directly challenge the substance of these dreary criticisms. Rather he protests that they’re unnatural and unhealthy. “The proper attitude toward young people is encouragement,” he says—“their ambitions, their strivings, their desire to be competent, their deep wish for a trustworthy guiding hand. I think our culture is so cynical that it’s impossible, especially for the established intellectual chattering critics, to even imagine that encouragement is possible.”

    When I ask what he thinks is driving the effort to destroy him and others who hold heterodox views, he diagnoses his persecutors as though they’re exactly the sort of young people who wander into his lectures or buy his books looking for structure and purpose. His admirers and his fiercest detractors are, in his mind, not so different from each other.

    Part of what drives these young moralistic firebrands, he thinks, is the despairing outlook of the contemporary left. “Whenever you see that level of contempt manifest itself, that desire to flog and destroy, you have to ask yourself: How deep is that? The idea that we’re a cancer on the planet—well, what do you do with cancer? You eradicate it. I’ve heard environmentally sensitive types say that, and it’s horrifying. They’re completely blind to what they’re saying. If they weren’t blind to it, they’d be traumatized by it.”

    The mention of environmentalism brings to mind the cultish side of modern progressivism. Is this desire to flog and destroy, as he puts it, a sign of some twisted spiritual longing? “I think so,” Mr. Peterson says. “The people who caricature Western society as a patriarchy, and then describe it as evil, they’re possessed by a religious idea.” He thinks the problem with modern enlightenment intellectuals—he names the American philosopher Sam Harris, the British conservative writer Matt Ridley and the British broadcaster and writer Stephen Fry, all atheists—is that they offer no mythology, no “adventure.”

    “They leave this nihilistic nothingness in their wake, and what happens?” he says. “These kids turn to radical political correctness.” Messrs. Harris, Ridley, Fry, et al. aren’t happy about political correctness, Mr. Peterson notes, but “what did they expect to happen? Did they expect these kids would settle for their insipid rationalism?”

    This search for a metaphysical teleology denied young people by “insipid rationalism,” in his view, is also “what motivates antifa and Black Lives Matter and white nationalism and all these other romantic revolutionary rebellions. It’s the romance and the heroism these movements offer.” Mr. Peterson recalls the famous line of George Orwell in his review of “Mein Kampf” in 1940: “Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people ‘I offer you a good time,’ Hitler has said to them ‘I offer you struggle, danger and death,’ and as a result a whole nation flings itself at his feet.”

    Taking Orwell’s terms “socialism” and “capitalism” both to mean, roughly, life without transcendence or any hint of the supernatural, the point seems defensible. Mr. Peterson thinks atheistic materialism has nothing to compare to religious worldviews. Rather than telling people simply not to do bad things, he says, “the right approach is to say to them: Here’s a better adventure. Now go conquer your own demons.”

    In the end, Mr. Peterson hasn’t been successfully canceled. He retains his academic post; his YouTube lectures and podcasts have not been scrubbed from the internet; and his publishers stuck with his books, which are available for purchase. This is true for basically two reasons. The first is that he has tried to understand his would-be cancelers and thinks of them almost as outpatients. He speaks in gentle, clinical terms about a reporter for the New York Times who in 2018 wrote a scathing piece about him headlined “Jordan Peterson, Custodian of the Patriarchy” and later posted online what sounded like a confession (“The roar of Twitter on my side meant the kill was justified and good”). He has, as best I can tell, genuine pity for this writer.

    The second reason follows from the first. The cancelers’ strange fixations mean that apologizing to them is folly. Mr. Peterson hasn’t apologized or disavowed any previous statement. Now there’s a rule for his next book: Don’t apologize when you haven’t done anything wrong.

    Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-man...qHEHcoAWFJ959c
    Mr. Swaim is a Journal editorial page writer.

  28. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to rgray222 For This Post:

    atman (3rd May 2021), Bill Ryan (3rd May 2021), ClearWater (7th May 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), Matthew (3rd May 2021), Mike (3rd May 2021)

  29. Link to Post #235
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,799
    Thanks
    35,825
    Thanked 50,583 times in 5,714 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Snow White on the verge of being cancelled, for promoting something that doesn't even exist: "rape culture". All because of that horrifying part when the prince kisses the sleeping princess. I don't know about the rest of you fellas, but when I saw that part as a kid, the first thing I thought was, I can't wait to grow up and rape somebody! Thank God it's being done away with now. Someone needed to step in and stop this madness.

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/disn...083117952.html
    Last edited by Mike; 7th May 2021 at 22:02.

  30. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    atman (14th May 2021), Bill Ryan (8th May 2021), Billy Vasiliadis (9th May 2021), ClearWater (7th May 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (8th May 2021), Pam (19th May 2021), rgray222 (18th May 2021)

  31. Link to Post #236
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,410
    Thanks
    211,308
    Thanked 459,494 times in 32,928 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    From Infowars today:
    Train Company Apologises For Using Phrase ‘Ladies And Gentlemen’ During Announcement

    A government-run British train company has issued an apology after one of its conductors used the phrase ‘ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls’ during an announcement, causing a passenger identifying as ‘non-binary’ to take offence and make a complaint.

    The passenger, who happens to be a ‘LGBT rep’ for the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union, immediately took to Twitter to whine about the ‘incident’.

    The company, London North Eastern Railway, immediately apologised and said “Train Managers should not be using language like this.”

    https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status...78662383513608



    Good lord, the horror of the language that was used:

    https://twitter.com/markjenkinsonmp/...80638885224451



    (the article continues...)

  32. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    atman (14th May 2021), ClearWater (16th May 2021), Eva2 (14th May 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), gord (16th May 2021), Mark (Star Mariner) (17th May 2021), Mike (14th May 2021), Pam (19th May 2021), rgray222 (18th May 2021), Yoda (14th May 2021)

  33. Link to Post #237
    Canada Avalon Member atman's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th January 2011
    Location
    Québec, Canada
    Language
    French
    Age
    69
    Posts
    219
    Thanks
    5,785
    Thanked 1,706 times in 211 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    Also from Infowars today (originally from National File, yesterday):

    Twitter Suspends Spanish Politician for Saying ‘A Man Cannot Get Pregnant’ Because No ‘Uterus Or Ovaries’

    A Spanish MP was suspended by Twitter for 12 hours, after he responded to a news article and noted that men do not have the biological ability to become pregnant.

    Francisco José Contreras, an MP for the populist right wing party Vox, posted a news article to Twitter about a Spanish female-to-male transgender individual who was pregnant and recently gave birth to a daughter, with the article in questionclaiming that this made this individual a father. Contreras in his tweet said that this was a total lie. “A man cannot get pregnant,” he tweeted. “A man does not have a uterus or ovaries.”

    However, not long after he tweeted his statement, Contrera received an email from Twitter, claiming that he had violated their rules on “hate speech,” informing him that they do not allow material that “threatens, harasses or promotes violence” against anybody based on a number of personal characteristics, including gender identity, among others. The email also warned him that repeated “breaches” could lead to permanent suspension of his account.

    (...)

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/twitt...us-or-ovaries/

    https://nationalfile.com/twitter-sus...us-or-ovaries/

  34. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to atman For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (16th May 2021), ClearWater (16th May 2021), Eva2 (16th May 2021), Ewan (16th May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), gord (16th May 2021), Mike (16th May 2021), Pam (19th May 2021), rgray222 (18th May 2021), TomKat (19th May 2021)

  35. Link to Post #238
    Finland Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th September 2010
    Language
    English
    Posts
    2,290
    Thanks
    8,985
    Thanked 21,027 times in 2,189 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    A bit of fresh air in the suffocating cancel culture world we have been living in for several years.

    'Woke' corporations called out in ad campaign; Nike, Coca-Cola in the firing line

    The campaign calls out American Airlines, Nike and Coca-Cola for putting politicians before customers

    Consumers' Research, an educational nonprofit dedicated to consumer information, on Tuesday launched an ad campaign targeting corporations over "woke" political narratives.

    The campaign calls out American Airlines, Nike and Coca-Cola, specifically, saying they have put politicians before their customers, according to Consumers' Research.

    "America Airlines shrunk legroom for passengers and laid off thousands of employees during the COVID pandemic while receiving billions in taxpayer bailouts," Consumers' Research Executive Director Will Hild said in a Tuesday statement. "Coca-Cola and Nike have both been exploiting foreign, potentially forced, labor in China while American workers suffer."

    He continued: "It is time these corporate giants were called to task. We are giving consumers a voice. These companies should be putting their energy and focus on serving their customers, not woke politicians."



    The three billion-dollar companies have recently issued statements against Republican-led legislation in several states. Coca-Cola and American Airlines have expressed concern with new GOP voting legislation in Georgia and Texas, respectively.

    "We respect everyone’s right to raise their concerns and express their views, but we also believe the best way to make progress now is for us all to come together to listen, respectfully share concerns and collaborate on a path forward," Coca-Cola told FOX Business in a statement. "We remain open to productive conversations with groups who may have differing views."

    The company also noted Consumers' Research's specific criticism on sugary drinks leading to obesity saying the company has "taken steps to help people reduce the amount of sugar they consume" in the U.S. and around the world.

    On the ad campaign's claims that Coca-Cola uses forced labor in China, the company said it respects "human rights everywhere" it operates and has "strict policies prohibiting forced labor" in its business and with its suppliers.

    American Airlines did not respond to the ad but directed Fox Business toward its original statement regarding Texas' S.B. 7 and H.B. 6 voter bills, which extend early voting hours, require specific voter ID, prohibit voting clerks from sending absentee ballot applications to voters who did not request them and ban drive-thru voting – a popular alternative voting method during the COVID-19 pandemic.

    As a Texas-based business, we must stand up for the rights of our team members and customers who call Texas home, and honor the sacrifices made by generations of Americans to protect and expand the right to vote," American Airlines said in an April 1 statement. "Voting is the hallmark of our democracy, and is the foundation of our great country."

    Nike signed an October letter from the Human Rights Campaign opposing Republican legislation in a number of red states banning transgender athletes from participating in women's sports.

    Nike did not immediately respond to inquiries from Fox Business.

    The ads will air on cable across the U.S., as well as in local markets where the companies are headquartered.

    Source: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...rican-airlines

  36. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to rgray222 For This Post:

    atman (19th May 2021), Bill Ryan (19th May 2021), ClearWater (19th May 2021), Ewan (23rd May 2021), Franny (19th May 2021), Mike (19th May 2021)

  37. Link to Post #239
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    A CANCEL REVERSAL HAS EMERGED. TEACHER SUING AFTER GETTING FIRED FOR NOT REMOVING BLM POSTER.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_br...hEuW6Ivw%3D%3D

    Florida Teacher Gets Fired Over CRT Ban, but Parents Still Concerned Over Textbooks

    BY PATRICIA TOLSON
    May 21, 2021 Updated: May 21, 2021

    A Duval County teacher has been terminated from classroom instruction for refusing to remove a Black Lives Matter banner from the wall outside her classroom, violating Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ ban of Critical Race Theory (CRT) in public schools.

    A Duval County, Florida teacher Amy Donofrio was terminated from her position as a Language Arts teacher at Robert E. Lee High School for—as Florida Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran described—having “an entire classroom memorialized to Black Lives Matter,” reported Action News Jax on May 17.

    “The commissioner referred to censure, firing, and termination in his answer at Hillsdale College,” Cheryl Etters, Interim Director of Communications for the Florida Department of Education (FDOE), told The Epoch Times. “All are recommendations he makes to the Office of Professional Practices Services on an ongoing basis and are well within his power.”

    The FDOE’s “Office of Professional Practices Services (PPS) investigates misconduct by educators who hold a Florida Educator Certificate or a valid application for a Florida Educator Certificate.”

    “In referring to the Jacksonville case,” Etters clarified to The Epoch Times, “he used ‘terminate’ to indicate the decision to terminate the teacher from classroom instruction. This was done by the district, and the commissioner was in agreement. Obviously, the commissioner possesses significant authority to ensure every child has access to a world-class education free from indoctrination.”

    Donofrio is suing (pdf) the Duval County Public School system and High School Regional Superintendent Scott Schneider, claiming her termination for not adhering to the principles outlined in Rule 6A-10.081 of Florida’s Administrative Code violated her right to free speech. She is demanding a jury trial.

    According to the principles outlined in the rule, teachers “shall not intentionally expose a student to unnecessary embarrassment or disparagement,” and “shall not harass or discriminate against any student on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, age, national or ethnic origin, political beliefs, marital status, handicapping condition, sexual orientation, or social and family background and shall make reasonable effort to assure that each student is protected from harassment or discrimination.”

    Governor DeSantis has made clear his position on CRT,” Executive Office of the Governor Press Secretary Christina Pushaw explained exclusively to The Epoch Times on Wednesday. “It is divisive, irrational, and has no place in our classrooms. CRT is rooted in Marxism, an anti-American ideology that has caused untold suffering and death everywhere it has been implemented. Moreover, CRT teaches discrimination based on ethnicity and racial background.”

    “The governor has zero tolerance for state-sanctioned racism,” Pushaw emphasized, stressing that DeSantis adheres to the same principle expressed by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in that he “believes that every child should learn to judge people not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”

    “That’s why the governor has taken bold steps to make Florida the national leader in civics education,” Pushaw added. “The Civic Literacy Excellence Initiative that Governor DeSantis announced in March ensures that Florida’s curriculum will expressly exclude CRT.”

    Using $106 million of the state’s portion of the Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief Fund provided through the Coronavirus Response and Relief Supplemental Appropriation Act, the Civic Literacy Excellence Initiative is the governor’s proposal “to make Florida a national leader in civics education.”

    Among other incentives, the program will reward Florida teachers who complete training and earn the Civics Seal of Excellence endorsement with a $3,000 bonus.

    Florida Parents Share Their Thoughts

    Textbooks containing CRT subject matter, coming soon to Florida’s classrooms, are raising concerns for parents.

    “I’m a Florida resident with children in Florida public schools and I am in full support of Gov. DeSantis and his position on critical race theory,” Lisa Jeannine Smith of Navarre, Florida, told The Epoch Times. “We have a race crisis that has been created in the mind only by the mainstream media and few powerful, yet feckless leaders in our government who must create a crisis to fix, as one does not exist in present day.”

    “I want my kids learning about math, science, language arts, history, and geography, among other things,” Hernando County, Florida resident and parent Jose David shared with The Epoch Times, “not about a leftist agenda.”

    “I feel that it’s an important move for Gov. DeSantis to get involved in something that is critical for young people,” David explained. “They are easily influenced in schools and radical race theory, in essence teaches them that this country was founded on racism, that our whole system was based on racism, white supremacy, and all this nonsense. So, I feel it’s very important that he got involved.”

    “It’s one thing to cover history or current events. But it’s another thing to praise a group like Black Lives Matter that, in my view, is doing absolutely nothing for the black community. So, when you sit there and vilify police officers to impressionable young kids, I just don’t think that’s good anywhere. I think it’s a good move for DeSantis to address this.”

    Keith Flaugh, Managing Director of Florida Citizens Alliance (FCA), is pleased by the announcement by DeSantis that CRT will have no place in Florida’s public schools. However, he is concerned about the content of textbooks, which are soon to be adopted in Florida’s public school system.

    “We’ve been huge supporters of a number of things DeSantis has done,” Flaugh told The Epoch Times. “We think he’s doing a great job on a lot of fronts, and we certainly applaud his words when he declares critical race theory as ‘whacko theory’ and being banned in Florida. The trouble is, those words have to mean something. Since we have every school district in Florida buying these English Language Arts textbooks right now—that will be in the classrooms for the next four to six years that are full of critical race theory—how does the governor maintain any credibility by saying he’s banned them when, in fact, critical race theory is rampant in the new textbooks they’re buying?”

    “These textbook manufacturers are the same publishers that gave us Common Core and they are very progressive,” Flaugh asserted.

    In February 2020, at the direction of DeSantis, the Department of Education released the proposed Florida B.E.S.T. (Benchmarks for Excellent Student Thinking) Standards for English Language Arts and Mathematics (pdf), and announced that “Common Core has been officially eradicated from Florida classrooms.”

    “So, what they’ve done is a halfway job of meeting those best standards. But they’ve infused into the English Language Arts curriculum and textbooks—that these school districts are buying—a really strong dose of critical race theory and all its tentacles. So, what they’ve ended up with is approved English Language Arts textbooks that are full of critical race theory and—as the governor puts it—‘other whacko theories.’”

    When The Epoch Times asked Pushaw how the governor proposed to eliminate CRT from the classroom with textbooks laced with CRT, she said “the Florida Board of Education guides the implementation of policy around public K-12, community college and state college education in our state.”

    “The Department of Education will release more detailed information about plans to ensure that Florida schools are not indoctrinating children with destructive ideologies like CRT,” Pushaw added, assuring The Epoch Times she will follow up “when those details become available in the next few weeks.”

    What is Critical Race Theory?

    According to Middle Tennessee University’s First Amendment Encyclopedia “Critical race theory is a movement that challenges the ability of conventional legal strategies to deliver social and economic justice and specifically calls for legal approaches that take into consideration race as a nexus of American life.”

    However, according to Christopher F. Rufo—senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and founder and director of Battlefront, a public policy research center—CRT “is an academic discipline, formulated in the 1990s, built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism.”

    “Critical race theorists have constructed their argument like a mousetrap,” Rufo explained in a March 2021 edition of Imprimis for Hillsdale University in a piece titled: “Critical Race Theory: What It Is and How to Fight It.”

    “There are a series of euphemisms deployed by its supporters to describe critical race theory, including ‘equity,’ ‘social justice,’ ‘diversity and inclusion,’ and ‘culturally responsive teaching,’” Rufo explained.

    “Diversity trainers will make an outrageous claim, such as ‘all whites are intrinsically oppressors’ or ‘white teachers are guilty of spirit murdering black children,’ and then when confronted with disagreement, they adopt a patronizing tone and explain that participants who feel ‘defensiveness’ or ‘anger’ are reacting out of guilt and shame.”

    According to Rufo, critical race theorists are “masters of language construction,” who “realize that ‘neo-Marxism’ would be a hard sell. Equity, on the other hand, sounds non-threatening and is easily confused with the American principle of equality.”

    “Our Constitutional Republic was founded on the concept of equality,” Flaugh noted to The Epoch Times. “But if you delve into the difference between how progressives use the words equity, versus equality, equity is ‘equal outcomes,’ not ‘equal opportunity".

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (22nd May 2021), Ewan (23rd May 2021), Mike (22nd May 2021), rgray222 (22nd May 2021), TomKat (22nd May 2021)

  39. Link to Post #240
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,799
    Thanks
    35,825
    Thanked 50,583 times in 5,714 posts

    Default Re: Cancel Culture (Examples)

    That's an interesting article Gemma!

    I live in Florida and I'm pleased as punch DeSantis is getting rid of CRT.

    I don't think teachers should bring their personal politics into the classroom, obviously, and I agree that the banner needed to be taken down. But hanging a banner and teaching CRT are 2 different things. Was she still teaching CRT? I was just a little confused by the article.

  40. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (22nd May 2021), Ewan (23rd May 2021), rgray222 (22nd May 2021)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst 1 2 12 18 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts