Materialistic Science, Scientific Materialism... and Truth

[onawah]

Follow the Science...or Follow the Money?

I wanted to start this thread with the following interview with Dr. Kaufman, which I hope will help to set the tone for a good, civilized, non-volatile discussion (if that is possible ).
Also, hopefully, start a compilation of some of the best articles, videos, etc. which may help to wean people off of dependency on the mainstream narrative.
And to help open more minds to trying some critical thinking outside the box and connecting the dots on their own.


I became very concerned recently with the way things are shaping up these days on the forum.
...After the last big meltdown over Q, when Paul the last Administrator left-- due in large part to his inflexible political bias, as far as I could tell-- a lot of the Mod team quit, and pretty much the whole forum was in disarray.

(Also at that time, former Avalonian Bob, who was a leader of the pro-5G faction on Avalon, executed a lot of moves that seemed to prove fairly conclusively that he was a sociopath or possibly a psychopath, and maybe even some kind of shill, which certainly added to the confusion. )

What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:
In particular:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375804

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375851

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375926

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1376035


I have been a member of Avalon since the beginning, and I always felt that Avalon was a forum designed to look outside the box, where it is safe and also encouraged to dissent and to challenge the mainstream narratives.

And if the goal of Avalon is to provide a meeting place for science and spirituality, then I think the science expressed here is going to have to divest itself of it's usual arrogance and not assume it has the last word, or that it will ever outdo Mother Nature in her wisdom, hard as it may try.

Some of the wisest human beings of all time were not stuck-in-the-head intellectuals, but were very intuitive and heart-centered; whereas "accepted" science has often been proven wrong, the perennial wisdom of our greatest spiritual leaders endures, however it may be clouded over by human ignorance.

Two of my own foremost personal concerns are the huge discrepancies between the mainstream narrative and the alternative research concerning vaccines and 5G, not just because I have bad bad experiences with both, but because I find the alternative research so convincing, which, imho, demonstrates them both to be deadly and part of a larger, very dark agenda.

An agenda which includes the current Covid crisis, and the part it is apparently playing in bringing about a NWO worldwide system of technocracy in which the public's every move will be monitored and to a large extent, controlled through digital currency, 5G, mandatory vaccines, down to the very alteration of our DNA.

Whether or not we may think this will all actually happen or not is not the point--the point is that we need to be aware of it, and take whatever steps we can from there to prevent it.

I hope that Avalon will continue to be a platform where this can be done.
Frank V. may be a scientist, but I don't think one has to be a scientist or have a genius IQ to sense that there is something very "off" about what the "accepted" science is trying to feed us.

Intuitives operating from the third eye are often far ahead of intellectuals in discerning the truth, and much more able to quickly connect the dots, not through incremental thinking, but through clairvoyance, which is a superior kind of gift, much as that may baffle those who are limited to 3rd chakra perception.

So I don't think science, which is so often wrong, and has led us down the paths to disaster again and again should have the last word on anything.

That leads us straight into the trap of technocracy, a path on which we have already come too far.

Here is that interview with Dr Kaufman. It's long, but worth watching to the end, imho, and deals very calmly and positively with such serious subject matter.

Dr. Andrew Kaufman: COVID Reveals Pathology of Scientific Materialism & Need to (re)THINK Health
19,422 views•Jun 22, 2020
MobilityMastery
19.1K subscribers

"This is a special video for me and Mobility Mastery: my first interview! And I feel so honored that my first guest is Dr. Andrew Kaufman.

Dr. Kaufman is a physician (medical doctor) who specializes in mental and emotional health as a trained psychiatrist. Dr. Kaufman spent time at MIT studying molecular biology before pursuing his doctorate. He has worked with cancer patients, AIDS patients and spent time in pediatrics before pursuing forensic psychiatry as his specialty.

As a physician who specializes in mental and emotional health, and someone who is clearly intelligent and open-minded, Dr. Kaufman is the perfect person to help us learn about our underlying health crises during this time in 2020.

We dive into mental and emotional health, what our response to covid suggests about our underlying psychology and programmed behaviors, as well the broader view of modern medicine and science generally in today’s world.

Dr. Kaufman shares his insight from the inside of medicine, where he got a front row seat to the suffering and reliance on pharmaceutical drugs to “treat” patients who are rarely expected to recover, let alone find lasting healing (or be “cured”).

While I’m not one to shy away from controversial topics (or so-called conspiracy theories), since Dr. Kaufman has already made the rounds repeating the same evidence and story about the PCR test, the uselessness of masks and other clinical topics related specifically to covid-19, I chose to go broader and deeper in order to try and make sense of the paradigm we’re in.

What level of thinking has created all this pain we see in the world, whether physical, mental, emotional, social? Why did we declare war on cancer (and now covid-19), only to rely ever more heavily on drugs that don’t work and why aren’t we willing to see the evidence that these drugs aren’t working?

During our time together, Dr. Kaufman shares a story about cancer that helped to wake him up from what he calls the “brainwashing” he experienced in medical school. Since then he’s been exploring natural healing, and wishes to help people heal mind and body by natural laws and nature’s intelligence, rather than through pharmaceutical drugs as he was taught.

This man is a true hero (to me). He was fired from his job for speaking out about the PCR tests and the fallacy of wearing masks. He is risking his personal reputation for a greater cause: to help people who are ready to reclaim their bodily sovereignty and be the sole authority over their health. This takes courage and responsibility for ALL of us, and he is certainly walking his talk as a leader in this way.

At the end of this video Dr. Kaufman shares a moving story that fits so well with my mission here at Mobility Mastery: to be an advocate for all pain - mental, emotional, physical - because it is through our pain that we wake up, and if we’re willing to feel the pain and get curious about it (rather than reactive and resist feeling it), we can earn superpowers that last a lifetime.

I hope you enjoy this as much as I did, and please share your thoughts below.
Learn more about Dr. Kaufman here: https://www.andrewkaufmanmd.com/

Dr. Kaufman’s YouTube channel 👉 https://bit.ly/2NdKOOH

PCR test issues, and are viruses the same as exosomes? 👉 https://bit.ly/3dgqPtz

Va((ines vs Reality: 👉 https://bit.ly/3hLyH9D

The Doctor Who Doesn’t Believe in Covid-19 👉 https://bit.ly/3fCCTXs

Unmasking the Lies Around Covid-19 (Brian Rose/London Real interview) 👉 https://bit.ly/3hOvLcy "

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8JPrYNOJ0Ys

[Gracy]

Posted by onawah (here)
What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:

Hi Natalie.

Regardless of the the way you may feel that Frank wrongly presented himself, and his opinions, why do you somehow think he has no right to do so as a member of this forum? Is it just because his name is in red?

There's an awful lot of strong and boisterous opinions being thrown around this forum these days, including yours, why are his so much different?

I'm genuinely curious.

[onawah]

Hi Gracy,
Please show where I stated that Frank has no right to present his opinions.
It was the way in which he presented his opinions in that thread that I object to, as being superior because he is a scientist, and KNOWS (therefore presumably cannot be questioned--as if scientific knowledge is the only kind that matters, when in fact it is often wrong, which can lead to disastrous consequences.).
Because of his disparaging remarks about dissenters on Avalon, because of the assumptions he made about said dissenters (implying they are reactionary, without credibility, too lazy to do real research, gullible etc.).
In part because he is in a position of power as the Administrator ( however he may dispute that, I think the value of his technical skills as Admin afford him a somewhat privileged status--evinced by how long it finally was before Paul, the previous Admin's political bias --and how it was affecting the Q controversy --was finally called into serious question during the last meltdown on Avalon.
Because 3 Avalonians were banned from the thread Frank started (ostensibly because they were derailing the thread, but I think in large part because they disagreed with Frank).
In part I think that was because they and other dissenters re the mainstream narratives about such issues as the safety of 5G and vaccines -- have demonstrated more than adequately on various threads that there is more than sufficient proof from expert scientists and other credible sources that Frank's opinions can most certainly be contested, and convincingly so.
And because if he intends to present himself as an expert, then I think he should have the courtesy to present his credentials, however low his opinion of Avalon dissenters may be.
He may have done so in the past, but I for one have never seen them, and I am sure others have not as well.

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by onawah (here)
What has me concerned NOW are opinions expressed and disparaging remarks made by Avalon's new Administrator, Frank V. (formerly Aragorn) on a recent thread:

Hi Natalie.

Regardless of the the way you may feel that Frank wrongly presented himself, and his opinions, why do you somehow think he has no right to do so as a member of this forum? Is it just because his name is in red?

There's an awful lot of strong and boisterous opinions being thrown around this forum these days, including yours, why are his so much different?

I'm genuinely curious.

[Gracy]

Posted by onawah (here)
Hi Gracy,
Please show where I stated that Frank has no right to present his opinions.
It was the way in which he presented his opinions in that thread that I object to, as being superior because he is a scientist, and KNOWS (therefore presumably cannot be questioned--as if scientific knowledge is the only kind that matters, when in fact it is often wrong, which can lead to disastrous consequences.).

Sometimes Natalie, I'm not a fan of how Frank presents himself either. But so f##king what! Guess what, we all don't always see eye to eye in the mod room either.

And do you think for one minute that us mods, including Frank, are always fans of how certain members here present themselves ever so arrogantly, over and over and over again, like broken records?

Yet we don't start brand new threads about it, when there are plentiful others on the same subject to do it on, in this case including the one you are so dang upset about.

Is it possible you're just pissed because he walked away from that conversation?

Anyway, please carry on. The floor is yours.

[onawah]

I didn't have a problem with him walking away from the conversation at all.
In fact, I was relieved. I already felt there was enough to deal with.
I haven't seen any other threads focusing on concerns with Frank's agreeing with the mainstream narratives or his way of expressing his opinions, and wanted to start a thread where others who have the same concern can converse.
We have been doing so in PMs, but it's easier if we have a thread where we can connect as a group.
Why is it that you are so upset about this in particular?

[Mike]

I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

I think there's quite a few of us like that in the alt. community. In general we know a little about a lot; our intellectual ocean is wide but not terribly deep. We listen/watch plenty of videos - and videos are great! - but we're at work or puttering around the house and maybe not totally engaged. And in general we're not fact checking every last detail being uttered by the interviewee. Who has the time anyway? I'm describing myself here, and assuming - rightly or wrongly - that many of you guys are like me.

So, in other words, I have strong feelings and intuitions based on the little I do know about certain things, but I wouldn't last 5 seconds in an intellectual debate on some of it. I even have direct experience of the weakening effects of WIFI - it's plagued me for years! - but I couldn't argue my points scientifically, or even begin to change the mind of someone who has combed the literature and found nothing to suggest any harmful effects.

So I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

But that's not always as straightforward as it sounds; I'll concede that. It costs an enormous amount of money to do scientific studies - at least ones that will be universally recognized anyway - and the drug companies aren't exactly lining up to do expensive, potentially damaging studies to their brand. And even if they do, how can they be trusted? They can't be, and neither can the FDA, who are clearly and demonstrably in bed with them. So who can we trust? These days, information is so corrupted that it's difficult if not impossible to tell in some instances.

The problem is, we simply don't know enough. And we don't all have the time to research it all. It doesn't mean we throw our hands up in the air and declare it all hopeless. We do the best we possibly can with the information we have. And that information, for the most part, should be scientifically based. But, due to the corruption of information, due to conflicts of interests, due to moral and ethical and financial corruption etc etc, we know that even that information will never be completely accurate...

...And that's where the intuition comes in. In this life, you have to just trust people sometimes. You can't go to medical school maybe, you can't do these studies on your own, you don't have access to a lab...so you have to trust the people that do. This isn't blind faith. I'm simply saying that after collecting as much info as time and energy allows on something, there will still be some blank spaces. And intuition usually fills that void. It tells you what info to seek out and who to listen to, among other things. And for each person it may be different, because we all have different challenges that may require different solutions.

So science and intuition aren't necessarily at cross purposes. Science and so called "conspiracy" aren't always at cross purposes either. The mainstream media and the alt media aren't always at cross purposes. They can often work together, alchemically, to provide us with something resembling truth. I say "resembling" truth, because we may not always know for sure when it comes to things like 5g and vaccines, but we can get pretty close to sure maybe, if we're diligent and reasonable; and I say "resembling truth" because in some instances my truth might be your conspiracy, and vice versa. I gave the example earlier of how I'm weakened by WIFI; well some people just refuse to believe that. And that's ok, because this is largely an individual journey, and we all discover things in our own time and in our own ways. And we tend to discover the specific things we need to discover for our own personal journeys; that's how the universe seems to operate, from my perspective anyway.

[Delight]

Posted by Mike (here)
I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

...........................
I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

This week I have been feeling quite disheartened. I like you have felt strongly about what is "good" for me. I encounter so many people in my daily life who are (even apart for the present covid issues) feeling ill, lacking meaningful work, feeling outrage about political issues, feeling LOST.

The people I have "looked up to" have demonstrated to me that "Mind is the builder" (Edgar Cayce). Mind Has been equated to "Love", "Source", "Infinity", "All Possibility".

One of the most meaningful lessons I incorporated was in the form of the Kybalion. It was written in English in 1908 and purported to be a passed down teaching from Hermes Trismegistus. It was maybe made up? I don't know? It seems bedrock to me. The material world is an expression of principles.

THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.
THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE.
THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION.
THE PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY.
THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM.
THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT.
THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER.

As above so below, as within so without.

I studied from a teacher who demonstrated a stepwise progression from the bottom to top. Each principle is less "material" and more free. Mentalism or consciousness trumps all and can be seen to over rule the rest.

How this relates to Scientific Materialism? One sees the many many ways in which consciousness is determinately left out of the equation of the physical/material sciences. For instance, in the Scientific Materialism view of "health sciences" the understanding of the placebo/nocebo effect is not REALLY acknowledged. Definitely it is not employed or valued by "Modern Medicine". OR perhaps it is understood and used against us.

For instance, I have a friend with SEVERE scoliosis. She feels convinced that there is nothing she can do about her situation. It is literally killing her and yet she is too fragile to have surgery. However in the many testimonials for Joe Dispenza who does understand the placebo effect, IF she accessed her own consciousness, she could literally reshape her spine. It would take effort, practice, but willingness to believe she could IS the first step.

I am certainly ir-religious but I appreciate that in the Bible, there is directive to use consciousness for healing. The faith of prayer, knowing one has received the outcome IS using consciousness. This is just one example but vastly important to our mundane LIFE.

The thing about Truth (and why I value truth and love it and think about it and want to push for it) IS that when something is TRUE, IT IS TRUE no matter what we claim. But this is not evident IMO when we focus just on examples. Paraphrase "Whether you think you Can or Cannot, you are right". IMO what we are seeing now in the INSANE splits of opinion and experience now is like the extreme of shatter where people are observing the fruit of their own minds in real time.

An understanding of this great hermetic Principle of Mentalism enables the individual to readily grasp the laws of the Mental Universe, and to apply the same to his well-being and advancement. The Hermetic Student is enabled to apply intelligently the great Mental Laws, instead of using them in a haphazard manner. With the Master-Key in his possession, the student may unlock the many doors of the mental and psychic temple of knowledge, and enter the same freely and intelligently. This Principle explains the true nature of "Energy," "Power," and "Matter," and why and how all these are subordinate to the Mastery of Mind. One of the old Hermetic Masters wrote, long ages ago: "He who grasps the truth of the Mental Nature of the Universe is well advanced on The Path to Mastery." And these words are as true to-day as at the time they were first written. Without this Master-Key, Mastery is impossible, and the student knocks in vain at the many doors of The Temple.

I have been thinking a lot about David Ickes over weaning message that we live in an illusory reality. Our awareness is paramount.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9VW6ldq2zsI

[Peter UK]

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
I was just telling a close friend that I've always felt very strongly about the dangers of 5G and vaccines, but if I was challenged on my beliefs I wouldn't be able to coherently explain them. Not too well anyway. Because my actual knowledge is quite limited.

...........................
I pick and choose my battles. Or I don't battle at all. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. But if the goal is to convince others, I know I have to do better than tell my personal story or quote videos; I need facts, science, citations, studies, so forth. And fair enough.

This week I have been feeling quite disheartened. I like you have felt strongly about what is "good" for me. I encounter so many people in my daily life who are (even apart for the present covid issues) feeling ill, lacking meaningful work, feeling outrage about political issues, feeling LOST.

If you're feeling disheartened then it may be you're feeling disempowered, those cicumstances and events must have a purpose. Could they not be the ideal to understand the presence of your own vibration at this moment?

[greybeard]

I think that respectful discussion of 5G is essential --the rate it is being brought into being in UK without meaningful debate in Parliament is worrying.
Same with vaccines.
Having been banned in Avalon for the firs time after many years posting.
I find this worrying.

In the main I was responding to points brought up on that thread -- no intention or ability to derail it.

My point on tests also now validated by the German Dr team The tests are not fit for purpose.
To be banned from a thread without warning is not spiritual.

It was politely pointed out that I repeat post --yes true but that is to combat the propaganda repeated incessantly.
In a war am I only allowed to fire my gun once?

Make no mistake this is a spiritual war, the misery and hardship --depression ill health --suicide caused is evil and intended.

This forum should be welcoming open debate within its rules, it always has, not quite sure it does on some subjects now.
Chris

[Agape]

But then, there are many different types of scientists, Natalie

Some may be intuitive people ( example Aragorn ), some super-intuitive ( Nicola Tesla), some simply meticulous people collecting data living mostly in anonymity and after getting through the pains of dissertation work some do not come with any original idea at all. Some are experts in one narrow field and others work on the Big Picture views.
Guess you and Frank are just different kinds of scientists. Also the “point of observation” actually matters.

Starting from simple questions such “how do you live, what kind of PC do you use, what’s your technical knowledge and ability in that area, does WiFi in the room disturb you - there’s usually cable and mobile internet option depending where you live of course, have you observed any clinical effects in proximity to 5G or 5G tower yourself , what kind of internet speed would you prefer ? and so forth ),
the way people report about this and their experience with technology may wary.

Frank there was simply trying to explain that 5G is not a “new technology” per se, it is just another , slightly higher bandwidth range to use completely on par with 3G and 4G.
There’s 6G and 7G in development in Finland and some other countries far ahead now, as well.

Just to let you know that the 5G band of frequencies is already in use by many militaries in the world for their fast satellite communications and data transmissions for which reason alone , public use of the band is so far being restricted.

It all “would not have to be so” if not for producing devices with limited bandwidth, similarly to radios that will have to be mostly replaced after the next option is adopted by it all will take a decade or two.


The problem with extreme views and methods is always manifold.


You would not even guess how many people with interest in alternative sciences and spirituality start training themselves in various “psychic arts” after attending some of these groups and forums and instead of becoming life’s true scientists they better practice “remote viewing”( the other people) and “remote influencing” ( or similar kind of old-new magic) thinking they’re involved in some big intergalactic game that involves -of course - various favorite political figures, media personalite and even scientists I guess).
It’s a new type of social madness whose beginnings could be probably traced to early years of internet and what some of us only heard about-
social reality games with names like “second Life” and “Dragons and Dungeons”.


Anyway. We may be witness to whole new supercomputer times coming, digital wars and finally even the birth of Neo who will be faster than the fastest computer in the world.

Imagine this and when trains were built and introduced as public transport some people cheered and others feared they’re dangerous and will damage the landscape.


Sounds a bit anecdotal nowadays


I’m sure and if the direction is correct the aim is to make technologies as seamless, harmless and user friendly as possible.

Quite like ET technologies, I’d say.

But will the “earth horders” and barbarian fighters with big guns destroy the way ahead , ahead , ahead ..



The end of transmission 🐳

[Agape]

P.S.: It would not even surprise me if there was complicated military psy-ops behind the hardcore anti-5G movement trying to clandestinely disinform public on how 5G is dangerous because it is actively in use by most militaries and super-militaries in the world, replacing -upgrading the frequency in full scale will take years to come and anything to do with military is considered matter of priority, national security etc.

and they are in “war” with internet providers and big company CEOs over the rights and legacy and access to certain technical levels at all times.

So in my opinion, they may be delaying the release of 5G as long as possible , at least and till they can upgrade.


The internet in itself became so dominant feature in certain stratas of modern society these days that some people do live in trance and full dependency on it and in itself this is very dangerous and yourself you’ve posted documentaries about this phenomenon , anyway.


🙏🦢🌟

[greybeard]

I am not anti anything --even evil has its place in duality.
Gives choice.
Where I have a challenge is professionals reputation being downgrade because they posted on U Tube and Avalon members being lumped into anti vax and other labels possibly because they have posted Vaxxed movie and other informative pieces.
To lampoon Dr Andrew Wakefield who has done sterling work to educate the public --he is not antivax by the way, shows lack of knowledge on the subject.
Possibly Robert F Kennedy Jnr would also be disregarded.

In one thread quite a lot of arrogance was shown and disrespect for some members views.

Avalon to my mind needs to show a united body against the tyranny that is going on, while still having respect for opposing views.
Im for science -- it has shown the tests and the masks not fit for pupose.
Thats probably why so many Dr's, Scientists, professionals had their videos taken down on u tub and reputations wrecked by fact checkers.
Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
I think that respectful discussion of 5G is essential

Yes. We support that.

We created a whole section on 5G (I did that myself), which right now contains 9 threads on which anyone concerned about 5G-related issues (of any kind whatsoever) can post as often as they like.

I wrote on 4 April this year:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
We've added a new section under Conspiracy Research, called 5G. We'll move the various existing 5G-related threads there, with a permanent redirect.

With that dedicated resource available, what's not okay is to spam other threads with 5G-related polemic when the thread creator has tried to present information of their own that lies in a different field.

What happened on Frank's thread A Supercomputer Analyzed Covid-19, and an Interesting New Theory Has Emerged was that several people immediately derailed the entire thing by injecting more 5G opinions.

That wasn't what the thread was about. Those who are concerned about 5G (and often rightly so, for many reasons) have a whole public subforum of their own.

The new science Frank posted was good. It may not be easy for some to understand, but that's no reason to spam the thread with uninformed opinions without even trying to think about it.

Chris Martenson immediately devoted a whole video about a possible Bradykinin storm, which might tell us all something. I posted that on the thread. How many critics of Frank's opinions have actually watched that? (That's a rhetorical question.)

Frank was personally very frustrated (he shared his disappointment privately with the mods first) — but (@onawah) so are you. We do need some allowance and understanding here.

The forum encourages and supports discussion on almost anything. Be appreciative of that, and use the platform that you absolutely do have. But we will occasionally block members from some threads who abuse their privilege, which is pretty considerable for every single person reading this.

[greybeard]

Bill this just one part that Frank posted

"Again, with all due respect, but the denialist reactions I am seeing here at Project Avalon are based upon nothing but paranoid knee-jerk rejections of anything that even remotely reeks of the word "mainstream" ─ unless it comes from Fox News, apparently ─ as well as so-called "expert opinions" from YouTube talking heads with an agenda who can very easily influence those who never studied any sciences, and a huge amount of cognitive bias, supported by anecdotal evidence because a few mistakes have been made here and there in testing and/or counting infected people. And once again, had the US government ─ and to a lesser extent the British government ─ not been so incompetent, then those anecdotal mistakes would perhaps never even have been made."

I'm a scientist, Chris. I don't do knee-jerks and I don't listen to opinionated talking heads. I know what I know because I've studied it, and I understand it. "

Frank sounds so much like a fact checker here -- downgrading what members say --not just me as knee jerk.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375804
5G mention by onawah here is a valid question to my mind
"I wonder how many of those symptoms are also caused by (or made worse by) 5G."
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375843

The test were reliable-- not so.
Frank said
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375847
"That was only true in North America, and specifically so in the USA, because the US CDC had mixed up the test kits with test kits for the flu.
In the rest of the world however, the tests were reliable."

I could go on but the there seems to be an essence of support for the narrative of the Elite.
Frank is entitled to any view he holds --however its not what he said but the superior arrogant way in which it was conveyed.
Some of it not true
Some perhaps libellous re Wakefield.
Quite a few members were upset, believe me.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Bill this just one part that Frank posted

"Again, with all due respect, but the denialist reactions I am seeing here at Project Avalon are based upon nothing but paranoid knee-jerk rejections of anything that even remotely reeks of the word "mainstream" ─ unless it comes from Fox News, apparently ─ as well as so-called "expert opinions" from YouTube talking heads with an agenda who can very easily influence those who never studied any sciences, and a huge amount of cognitive bias, supported by anecdotal evidence because a few mistakes have been made here and there in testing and/or counting infected people. And once again, had the US government ─ and to a lesser extent the British government ─ not been so incompetent, then those anecdotal mistakes would perhaps never even have been made.

I'm a scientist, Chris. I don't do knee-jerks and I don't listen to opinionated talking heads. I know what I know because I've studied it, and I understand it. "

Frank sounds so much like a fact checker here -- downgrading what members say --not just me as knee jerk.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375804
5G mention by onawah here is a valid question to my mind
I wonder how many of those symptoms are also caused by (or made worse by) 5G.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375843

The test were reliable-- not so.
Frank said
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1375847
That was only true in North America, and specifically so in the USA, because the US CDC had mixed up the test kits with test kits for the flu.

In the rest of the world however, the tests were reliable.

I could go on but the there seems to be an essence of support for the narrative of the Elite.
Frank is entitled to any view he holds --however its not what he said but the superior arrogant way in which it was conveyed.
Some of it not true
Some actually libellous re Wakefield.
Quite a few members were upset, believe me.

Chris
Chris

Jeez, Chris.

Watch Chris Martenson's video and then come back and post again when you understand more. If you don't understand it (which is forgivable) — but really want to — watch it another time through.

If you don't want to understand it, then don't post about it.

That's pretty ****ing simple. (I typed in those asterisks manually to make the point. )

This topic is important, because it actually might explain the operation of the entire virus.

OF COURSE, 5G will weaken the immune system. 4G and 3G do, too. We should all turn off our domestic Wi-Fi when sleeping, for instance. There are already posts about that, years ago. But that's not what this was about.

Frank was legitimately frustrated. He had Covid himself. It's real.

He has some underlying health issues. So do many humans. If you do, I hope you never get this thing.

But for a self-proclaimed spiritual person, Chris, have some ******ed empathy.

(I typed in those asterisks, too.)

And I'll say this again. Don't post about something if you don't understand it — unless you want to understand it and are asking a question. That's always, always, fine. You may really not fully appreciate what opportunities there are here on Avalon to better understand just about anything at all.

Chris, you understand very little science. That's not a hanging offense, at all. But maybe just devote yourself to things you DO understand.

And knowing what you do and don't understand is a strength. It might be that there are some Avalon members who don't fully possess that.

[greybeard]

to add
"Andrew Wakefield, the hero of the anti-vaxx movement, is a proven fraud, who was found guilty of not only having falsified his research at the benefit of a law firm involved in a high-profile lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company ─ and for the record, I'm not exactly a fan of the pharmaceutical industry ─ but also of having grossly violated all ethics by injecting a number of unwitting teenagers at a party without their explicit consent, and of having treated his official patients unprofessionally and with total disregard for their wellbeing. And all of those things are documented. You don't have to believe me. Just consult with the British register for why Andrew Wakefield was barred from ever practising medicine again."

Wakefield may be the hero of the anti vax people but he himself is on record as stating he is not anti vax --if its safe effective properly tested he is for it.
Wakefield was pilloried because he found inconvenient truth.
What he has stated in VAXXED movie is true or he would have been subject to a massive libel suite --same goes for what Robert F Kennedy Jnr is saying -- and Judy Mikovitz.
The cabal is in fear.
My and others knee jerk reactions took hours -- days -- months of studying what recognized Dr's experts posted on u tube
When I have been mistaken I have apologised.
Chris

[greybeard]

Bill please point to what I have said that is inaccurate.
I cross reference and the overwhelming evidence is Covid no worse than seasonal flu the tests no fit for purpose -- the tests there fore weaponised to keep lockdown continuing Masks ineffective and dangerous in some cases.

Im happy to be corrected.
My compassion is for those suffering from Covid19 im not a disbeliever and those who suffer the consequences of lock down --etc
My signature shows where i come from -- its not an esccape from liability for what I post.
Chris

[greybeard]

Im not contesting the value of Franks opening post nor the value of the subject.
I am all for progress in science and computers -- not sure about AI though as it could be miss used.
My comments about AI were misplaced, for that I apologize.

My concern is not Franks opinions.
It was the way he expressed, thats all.
Im sure if we were face to face we would get on.
I am aware that the condition he suffers from can make interaction with other difficult--for that I have compassion.
So I apologize for any upset I caused -- but stand by the rest.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Bill please point to what I have said that is inaccurate.
I cross reference and the overwhelming evidence is Covid no worse than seasonal flu the tests no fit for purpose -- the tests there fore weaponised to keep lockdown continuing Masks ineffective and dangerous in some cases.

Im happy to be corrected.
My compassion is for those suffering from Covid19 im not a disbeliever and those who suffer the consequences of lock down --etc
My signature shows where i come from -- its not an esccape from liability for what I post.
Chris

I don't know if you're correct about Andrew Wakefield or not. I apply to myself exactly what I stressed above: if I don't know enough about something, or maybe I just don't understand it well, I don't post about it.

You'll see that in everything I do. I don't think I've ever posted about Wakefield, ever. And, to illustrate my own point in a different field, I've never offered an opinion about chemtrails. (I don't know what they are.) Or gardening. Or cooking. Or art. Or out-of-the-body-experiences, because I've never had one. Or baseball.

I'm pretty intellectually honest that way. And if ever I offer an opinion, which is just an opinion and might well be wrong, I make sure I state the caveat.

But there's other stuff I absolutely DO know about, so I usually stick to my strengths, and I absolutely know what those are.

[Frank V]

Posted by greybeard (here)
My concern is not Franks opinions.
It was the way he expressed, thats all.
Im sure if we were face to face we would get on.
I am aware that the condition he suffers from can make interaction with other difficult--for that I have compassion.

Do you have any idea at all how insulting those words are?

What's next ─ are you also going to claim that "my condition" affects my judgment, or perhaps my sanity? Because it's only a small step from what you wrote to the innuendo that I might be intellectually or cognitively impaired, Chris.