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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Biden Supporters

    Since the election, I've been so inside my own head, and I've been telling myself the same things over and over again; when I get like this, about anything, I try to stop myself and review again exactly why I'm thinking the things I'm thinking and believing the things I'm believing. Wait, why did you vote for Trump again? Are you sure you're right about x,y, and z? Do you really feel as strongly about x as you're letting on, or are you just being stubborn? And so forth...

    Basically I just revisit my most fervently held beliefs and attempt to challenge them.

    As a result, I've gotten curious as to why people have voted for Biden. Like, very curious! Because I've been so certain I was correct in my decision to vote Trump, I've never really given much thought as to why someone might vote Biden; I've only thought of reasons to vote against him.

    This is just a thread for questions and answers, not debate. And not judgement or nastiness. If it gets testy, even for a moment, I will request it be shut down immediately.

    I'm asking in good faith, not so I can attempt to win some intellectual or political arguments. I'm genuinely curious as to why people voted Biden. Thanks in advance.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Well Mike I'll lead this off with that I don't vote any more, not for some time now, there's no politicians viable on the national scene that I want to touch with the proverbial 10' pole. I can however offer up examples of two people quite close to me, both near and dear to my heart, and both polar opposites:

    Example #1 bleeds Kentucky Red, and would likely claim self defense even if they saw raw video feed of Trump really doing the ole gunning someone down in cold blood on 5th Avenue thing.

    Example #2 is a die hard, life long democrat. They absolutely worship the democratic party, and faithfully vote blue no matter who. Especially this time as they are part of the Rachel Maddow type resistance crowd.

    And I have to tiptoe around both these days.
    If you trust your government
    You don't know history

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Thanks Gracy

    So this seems to illustrate emotional and intellectual entrenchment. Sound about right to you?

    Like perhaps they made up their mind long ago on it, and are invested on so many levels that the idea of revisiting their beliefs is more or less zero?

    I wonder how much of the population operate similarly?

    No judgement from me. Im certainly guilty of this as well

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Since the election, I've been so inside my own head, and I've been telling myself the same things over and over again; when I get like this, about anything, I try to stop myself and review again exactly why I'm thinking the things I'm thinking and believing the things I'm believing. Wait, why did you vote for Trump again? Are you sure you're right about x,y, and z? Do you really feel as strongly about x as you're letting on, or are you just being stubborn? And so forth...

    Basically I just revisit my most fervently held beliefs and attempt to challenge them.

    As a result, I've gotten curious as to why people have voted for Biden. Like, very curious! Because I've been so certain I was correct in my decision to vote Trump, I've never really given much thought as to why someone might vote Biden; I've only thought of reasons to vote against him.

    This is just a thread for questions and answers, not debate. And not judgement or nastiness. If it gets testy, even for a moment, I will request it be shut down immediately.

    I'm asking in good faith, not so I can attempt to win some intellectual or political arguments. I'm genuinely curious as to why people voted Biden. Thanks in advance.
    I do not associate with a party, if anyone had to define me I suppose I am a libertarian? I hate labels, even that one. However, my wife's parents and sister are all die hard democrats. They always vote blue no matter what. My wife's mother immigrated from Brazil when she was 19, her father is from the United States. They're in their late 60s now. I say this as kindly as possible.. but they are not at all very open minded people to accept alternative thinking, data, etc. I know that her father voted for Biden because he feels Biden is an old school democrat that knows how to get along well with republicans. He also feels like Biden will do a better job with the virus situation. Her mother is all about illegal immigration being ok, etc. Identity politics, hook line and sinker. So, I don't talk to them about my truest thinking as it just upsets them. But what they believe is very frustrating to me. It's a source of a lot of despair since they're the only family I have where I live with my wife and kids. My blood family is all up north. It's sad to me, honestly. I feel crazy and question my own sanity very often. But I know what I feel to be true is at least somewhat closer to the truth than their thinking.

    People just feel "more comfortable" under Biden. They'd rather be coddled to sleep and then slipped into the water before it slowly rises to a boil.
    Last edited by vizon; 11th November 2020 at 01:36.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    thanks for that Vizon.

    people just feel more comfortable under Biden..

    this is a pretty ubiquitous statement, and i'm glad you wrote it.

    because, in the past, when ive found myself in debates with biden supporters, they never seemed that interested in the links i might provide, or the statistics, or whatever.

    i'm not suggesting they're irrational people! it just seems to me that their decision, in general, is more intuitive and emotionally oriented. and fair enough, that has its merits.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Oh, absolutely. I believe the left / right dichotomy in politics is a direct reflection of the brain itself. Left brain being more logical (conservatism) and right brain being more emotional / intuitive (liberalism).
    Last edited by vizon; 11th November 2020 at 02:17.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    As Jenny Jones used to say, there are haters and then there are haters. My impression from members' posts is there are Trump haters, Trump supporters, Biden haters, but no Biden supporters. I have come across well-informed and articulate members who have made convincing cases to hate Trump, support Trump, and hate Biden.

    Did I miss someone making a convincing case to support Biden?

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    The question is....

    is there a better choice at this point???

    Chaos is inevitable on either road. Which chaos do we choose?
    Last edited by vizon; 11th November 2020 at 01:47.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    Did I miss someone making a convincing case to support Biden?
    LOL, and well said. This is partially why I've started the thread I don't think I've seen anyone attempt to make a case for him

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by vizon (here)
    The question is....

    is there a better choice at this point???

    Chaos is inevitable on either road. Which chaos do we choose?


    The world is ruled by chaos and order, and the balance struck between the two. Ideally we should be right on that border, maybe trending slightly towards chaos.

    Too much order is tyrannical, and too little is chaos. The candidates, maybe subconsciously, represent one or the other to the voters, or some nuanced version thereof. And maybe the voters just can't quite articulate that when pressed over who they favor..

    The vibe I get off quite a few Biden supporters is that they don't quite know why they voted for Biden except that he might abate what they view as the chaos caused by Trump...that the world has left them existentially off balance and they hope Biden might remedy that
    Last edited by Mike; 11th November 2020 at 01:58.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by vizon (here)
    The question is....

    is there a better choice at this point???

    Chaos is inevitable on either road. Which chaos do we choose?


    The world is ruled by chaos and order, and the balance struck between the two. Ideally we should be right on that border, maybe trending slightly towards chaos.

    Too much order is tyrannical, and too little is chaos. The candidates, maybe subconsciously, represent one or the other to the voters, or some nuanced version thereof. And maybe the voters just can't quite articulate that when pressed over who they favor..

    The vibe I get off quite a few Biden supporters is that they don't quite know why they voted for Biden except that he might abate what they view is the chaos caused by Trump...that the world has left them existentially off balance and they hope Biden might remedy that
    My father grew up in the neighborhood adjacent to Donald Trump's. My father was born in 1944, Trump in 1946. Almost the same exact age. I've always felt that their sense of humor is very much the same, very much old school New York. Along with all my other New York relatives on my father's side. So, I'm probably a bit more generous in my critiques of him since much of the criticism he receives is rooted in a lack of understanding of him as a person.

    I miss my father deeply. Especially his sense of humor, and maybe this makes me biased.

    I'm very worried about what could happen. I prefer the devil I know as opposed to the devil I don't know. And I'm not even sure the devil I know is a devil at all? Time will tell.
    Last edited by vizon; 11th November 2020 at 02:18.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Good question, Mike.

    A good friend who is a strong Biden supporter says these things (I just listen and nod):


    "Biden is more dignified and presidential.

    Biden will calm the country down so that there is less racial strife and overall divisiveness.

    Biden will crack down on the Covid thing and make sure it stops spreading and get the economy back on track.

    Biden has a better chance at negotiating peace with other countries - he is more level-headed and reasonable. Other countries have more respect for him."


    No possibility of approaching this otherwise reasonable person with an even slightly differing view.

    Just reporting what I hear.
    Last edited by ErtheVessel; 11th November 2020 at 02:21.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by ErtheVessel (here)
    Good question, Mike.

    A good friend who is a strong Biden supporter says these things (I just listen and nod):


    "Biden is more dignified and presidential.

    Biden will calm the country down so that there is less racial strife and overall divisiveness.

    Biden will crack down on the Covid thing and make sure it stops spreading and get the economy back on track.

    Biden has a better chance at negotiating peace with other countries - he is more level-headed and reasonable. Other countries have more respect for him."


    No possibility of approaching this otherwise reasonable person with an even slightly differing view.

    Just reporting what I hear.
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm seeing. Not much more than this, however. I've not heard one person mention to me a policy change that they admire about him pitching.

    He seems to be quite compromised at the moment, however, from what I can tell. Haha, to say the least!

    Then once he retires after 2 months, Kamala will be the deeply beloved first female president, distracting the masses from her truly terrible ways. We would absolutely have 8 years of that, possibly with Clinton as VP? Who knows. I would hope not.
    Last edited by vizon; 11th November 2020 at 02:34.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by vizon (here)
    Quote Posted by ErtheVessel (here)
    Good question, Mike.

    A good friend who is a strong Biden supporter says these things (I just listen and nod):


    "Biden is more dignified and presidential.

    Biden will calm the country down so that there is less racial strife and overall divisiveness.

    Biden will crack down on the Covid thing and make sure it stops spreading and get the economy back on track.

    Biden has a better chance at negotiating peace with other countries - he is more level-headed and reasonable. Other countries have more respect for him."


    No possibility of approaching this otherwise reasonable person with an even slightly differing view.

    Just reporting what I hear.
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm seeing. Not much more than this, however. I've not heard one person mention to me a policy change that they admire about him pitching.

    He seems to be quite compromised at the moment, however, from what I can tell. Haha, to say the least!

    Then once he retires after 2 months, Kamala will be the deeply beloved first female president, distracting the masses from her truly terrible ways. We would absolutely have 8 years of that, possibly with Clinton as VP? Who knows. I would hope not.

    I share your deep concern about Harris(), but I want to be careful to make this kind of a judgement free zone. thanks If we can, I'd like to refrain from any kind of criticisms or debates or whatnot. Lots of threads for that. Here, I would really just like to know why Biden voters voted the way they did.

    Will anyone step up?

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by ErtheVessel (here)
    Good question, Mike.

    A good friend who is a strong Biden supporter says these things (I just listen and nod):


    "Biden is more dignified and presidential.

    Biden will calm the country down so that there is less racial strife and overall divisiveness.

    Biden will crack down on the Covid thing and make sure it stops spreading and get the economy back on track.

    Biden has a better chance at negotiating peace with other countries - he is more level-headed and reasonable. Other countries have more respect for him."


    No possibility of approaching this otherwise reasonable person with an even slightly differing view.

    Just reporting what I hear.


    thanks Erthevessel

    is your friend named Joe Biden?

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    I share your deep concern about Harris(), but I want to be careful to make this kind of a judgement free zone. thanks If we can, I'd like to refrain from any kind of criticisms or debates or whatnot. Lots of threads for that. Here, I would really just like to know why Biden voters voted the way they did.
    For sure, but Harris is Biden's running mate. Just as important, if not more important, than Biden himself.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    My thoughts are we have been manipulated by the puppet masters, we always have been and for a long time; well before any of us were born and will continue long after we are gone. I like to think I cannot be hypnotized or manipulated, as my ego says I am "aware and awake" but I find myself having it happen to me daily. T.V. commercials showing food gets to me all the time. All I can do is watch the show and prepare my family for a different world than what I grew up in and work on myself to be a better person. I believe the people who voted for Biden are searching for the old memories. But they have been manipulated , no different than the people who voted for Trump. As George Carlin once stated and I paraphrase "it is an illusion of choice on who we get to vote for"
    Last edited by Maknocktomb; 11th November 2020 at 03:29.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    I am curious too, Mike. I am trying to understand the choice for Biden. I am an "independent" that voted Trump because of some policies, like the vetoing of TPP.

    A close family member voted for Biden because she hates Trump. That is her stated reason.

    In a phone call in March she was trying to convince me that anyone who voted for Trump 2016 should be banned from voting...she was quite serious. Quote: "These people are - let's face it - not smart. They have lower IQ's than Democrats"

    I asked: "What Trump policies don't you like & how would you change them?" She responded: "I don't know about that, but I hate the way he talks about toilets"

    In August I asked her why she is voting for Biden. Her response: "Is Biden a good choice? No. But I will vote for anyone who isn't Trump, I hate him! I am voting against Trump because I believe in human rights, caring for people in need, equality for all people & standing up for what's right"

    I responded: "Republicans want that too. That's great - we all want the same thing"

    Silence..........she then ended the phone call. She didn't speak to me for 2 months after that conversation. We next spoke when I called her for her birthday. We avoided discussing politics, thank God. I know we want the best for each other but our relationship is barely there now.

    I have repeatedly said to my husband there is some kind of mind control at work on her. This person avoided politics in the past - no interest at all. This person isn't childish, hotheaded, bigoted or stupid. She is a compassionate & lovely human UNTIL you say the word "Trump". I am left wondering what the hell is happening? Note, I do not necessarily think that this is true for someone else, just my family member.

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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Some people figure Biden is least worst, I guess. But I don't think anybody is wild about the guy. He represents some big time ugly on the dem side.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by Maknocktomb (here)
    My thoughts are we have been manipulated by the puppet masters, we always have been and for a long time; well before any of us were born and will continue long after we are gone. I like to think I cannot be hypnotized or manipulated, as my ego says I am "aware and awake" but I find myself having it happen to me daily. T.V. commercials showing food gets to me all the time. All I can do is watch the show and prepare my family for a different world than what I grew up in and work on myself to be a better person. I believe the people who voted for Biden are searching for the old memories. But they have been manipulated , no different than the people who voted for Trump. As George Carlin once stated and I paraphrase "it is an illusion of choice on who we get to vote for"

    We are all manipulated in ways, some of which we understand and some which we cannot even begin to comprehend. I'm conflicted, because part of this manipulation is the deliberate divisiveness being created by this election - it feels, as another poster said, like some kind of mind control. I've seen smart people make very little sense at all, and not only that, embrace their nonsensicality; I've seen overt fascists call themselves antifascists, and watched as the smart people agreed with them; I've seen harmless statements get conflated with Nazism, and incendiary comments make little or no mark at all. Everything seems backwards and upside down to me, and I have very clear ideas on all the issues on the table. But participating, even by supporting causes that I feel are right and just, seems to be playing into the hands of those who wish to sew this deliberate divisiveness. A catch 22.

    Carlin was right of course. What kind of choice for leader of the free world only involves 2 candidates? It's a type of insanity that only seems normal because we're accustomed to it. More candidates would dilute the divisiveness, and ease the intense polarity caused by guy 1 vs guy 2. Plus it would increase the probability that we'd be voting for someone, and not merely against someone else.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Biden Supporters

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Some people figure Biden is least worst, I guess. But I don't think anybody is wild about the guy. He represents some big time ugly on the dem side.
    I think you're right. The average American is, I think, voting on the candidates personalities, and nothing more. The ones I have spoken to know little to nothing about the candidates' policies. They're fickle idiots who get caught up in some minor irrelevancy, like what candidate one said about candidate two's wife or kid. Or they might mention one or two issues and parrot all the mainstream talking points relating to it. They're like mindless automatons pretending to care about this or that. I have very little faith in my countrymen at the moment

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by Ami (here)
    I am curious too, Mike. I am trying to understand the choice for Biden. I am an "independent" that voted Trump because of some policies, like the vetoing of TPP.

    A close family member voted for Biden because she hates Trump. That is her stated reason.

    In a phone call in March she was trying to convince me that anyone who voted for Trump 2016 should be banned from voting...she was quite serious. Quote: "These people are - let's face it - not smart. They have lower IQ's than Democrats"

    I asked: "What Trump policies don't you like & how would you change them?" She responded: "I don't know about that, but I hate the way he talks about toilets"

    In August I asked her why she is voting for Biden. Her response: "Is Biden a good choice? No. But I will vote for anyone who isn't Trump, I hate him! I am voting against Trump because I believe in human rights, caring for people in need, equality for all people & standing up for what's right"

    I responded: "Republicans want that too. That's great - we all want the same thing"

    Silence..........she then ended the phone call. She didn't speak to me for 2 months after that conversation. We next spoke when I called her for her birthday. We avoided discussing politics, thank God. I know we want the best for each other but our relationship is barely there now.

    I have repeatedly said to my husband there is some kind of mind control at work on her. This person avoided politics in the past - no interest at all. This person isn't childish, hotheaded, bigoted or stupid. She is a compassionate & lovely human UNTIL you say the word "Trump". I am left wondering what the hell is happening? Note, I do not necessarily think that this is true for someone else, just my family member.

    haha! I've had this conversation a few times myself!

    "I hate the way he talks about toilets." wtf?? that's a new one.
    Last edited by Mike; 11th November 2020 at 06:23.

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