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    Default Rising above Us vs Them

    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    As Patrick Henry stated in 1799, “Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs”.

    I believe all voices deserve to heard, yet we do not have to agree with them all. We are all free to choose what we believe is true.

    As David Hawkins remind us in his book Truth vs. Falsehood, “Humanity has been like a sailor at sea without a compass by which to discern truth from falsehood. The cost in terms of suffering has been enormous”. I know we all can see this suffering today.

    And as Socrates told us, “All human error is involuntary for man can only choose what he believes at the time to be a good that will bring happiness. His only error is that he cannot discern the real good from the illusory good”.

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    I was reminded of an article from years ago from the marriage counselors at The Gottman Institute. They had written an article about "contempt" & how partners would express contempt for each other when a marriage is on it's last legs. 90% of the time, it would be too late to save the relationship.

    Looking at their website now, they outline the "Four Horsemen" of relationships: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, & Stonewalling. "We use this metaphor to describe communication styles that, according to our research, can predict the end of a relationship."

    At their website they offer advice on how to handle these: https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-fou...-stonewalling/

    While perhaps not THE answer, maybe it will provide food for thought on how we can respond in a constructive way if we encounter these communication styles in our daily lives.
    Last edited by Ami; 17th November 2020 at 07:06. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    I believe that the death knell of civility in public life ended when the U.S. media were allowed to direct propaganda at Americans for the first time in a long time. Here is a quote about that issue I just found online:

    "....in 2013 Congress passed legislation allowing the federal government to fund and create propaganda they knew could be used to manipulate Americans on American soil. This legislation was called The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act, sponsored by Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX), that failed in 2011 when it was submitted on its own. But in 2013 Thornberry and his co-sponsors buried this legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2014, where it surreptitiously was passed.

    The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act overturned a prohibition against domestic propaganda that had been in place since 1948. This prohibition act was passed as a result of a series of events in American history that drew the concern of those who wanted to secure a free press and the freedom of speech of the American people. The concern began when President Woodrow Wilson established the Committee on Public Information through an executive order with the purpose of influencing American public opinion toward supporting the U.S. involvement in World War I."

    Source of above quote: https://therevolutionaryact.com/fede...nda-americans/
    Last edited by Arcturian108; 17th November 2020 at 10:48.

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    It is difficult to know the truth in an era where truth is treason, where lies become truth, where up is down.

    Just who or what has the hidden power and global influence to pull off such sinister acts we are seeing today. It is highly unlikely that all governments have simultaneously co-ordinated their efforts to self destruct against a hidden enemy that they cannot or dare not, tell us how many people have died or recovered as a direct result of this hidden enemy. It would be mind numbingly small.


    Here’s a story I tell my children

    Thousands of years ago royal aristocratic hybrid bloodline entities, we call Pharos, noble lords, kings and queens Ruled. They were the offspring’s of fallen angels known as the Nephilim. These fallen angels were not angels but demons.

    These powerful giants were cannibals and worshipped marduk. Humans were mere grasshoppers where they carried out wicked acts against men, women and especially children.

    These fallen angels also carried out many genetic experiments on earth including humans and animals.

    To this day these Nephilim hybrid bloodlines still rule. To ensure continuity of their rule and evil ways their own children are subjected to extreme abuse to break the mind. This allows demonic entities to infect their mind and soul during rituals, giving the desired behavioural traits - they become Destroyers, Accusers, Seducers and Adulterers of mankind and shall inherit the earth.

    I also show my children the effects of moving a magnet around a compass where it can be spun around (confusion) and even made to point in the opposite direction (inversion) Understanding these hidden forces and their source is important.

    Might these stories provide one explanation as to why Global Governments have simultaneously decided to commit acts of self-destruction where everything is inverted and lies become truth, where staying apart keeps us together.

    This is the work of marduk, his children and gullible followers – the spiritual wicked ones in high places. There are many demonic entities that exist from the time of creation, most of which are in spirit form, but ready to jump in at times of weakness. A few walk the earth

    These stories are helpful in life since recognising the traits of a destructive person and their actions is important and surprisingly easy to do, although some invert their nature to deceive us.

    When I look at leaders or anyone else, I ask – do their words and actions match, do their actions fundamentally create or destroy.
    We must be compelled to educate ourselves and take responsibility for all we do and say.

    As the saying goes - The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

    By the way, this kill shot vaccine will be deadly safe, just like the Polio vaccine scam which contained the SV40 virus and hereditary cancer trigger that was likely responsible for millions of deaths.
    Last edited by yelik; 17th November 2020 at 11:26.

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    I believe that the death knell of civility in public life ended when the U.S. media were allowed to direct propaganda at Americans for the first time in a long time. Here is a quote about that issue I just found online:

    "....in 2013 Congress passed legislation allowing the federal government to fund and create propaganda they knew could be used to manipulate Americans on American soil. This legislation was called The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act, sponsored by Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX), that failed in 2011 when it was submitted on its own. But in 2013 Thornberry and his co-sponsors buried this legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2014, where it surreptitiously was passed.

    The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act overturned a prohibition against domestic propaganda that had been in place since 1948. This prohibition act was passed as a result of a series of events in American history that drew the concern of those who wanted to secure a free press and the freedom of speech of the American people. The concern began when President Woodrow Wilson established the Committee on Public Information through an executive order with the purpose of influencing American public opinion toward supporting the U.S. involvement in World War I."

    Source of above quote: https://therevolutionaryact.com/fede...nda-americans/
    There is an excellent comment on the original site below the above article, so I am copying it here:



    Like many pieces of legislation, Smith-Mundt had a noble beginning. It was primarily set to allow the dissemination of “pro-America/pro-western/pro-capitalist” messages aimed at the Soviet Union and other nations trapped behind the “iron curtain.” IOW, it was COVER, and PERMISSION, and formed a FUNDING MECHANISM for “Radio Free Europe” and other similar endeavors that the USA was committed to carrying out (as a low-cost way to help the people of the world to resist the horror of communism). .

    There are two challenges with pushing propaganda over the air; one is the message itself, and the other is the availability of the messages to get through. One “built-in” advantage was the large number of radios that Stalin had pushed on the Soviets to hear HIS messages; those radios then heard OUR messages during the Cold War. Yes, they jammed us, but we were persistent and the people heard the promise of freedom and liberty that eventually led to the fall of the Soviet system.

    That Soviet failure caused even more success; after the fall of the Soviets, we could begin to make inroads in nations such as Azerbaijan which allowed us to put up huge towers to reach nations like Iran (which was “locked to surface messages” by the mountain ranges that ring the country). However, we were winning a war that would soon be compromised, and even altered, due to technology.

    Technology caused the “present day problems” with Smith-Mundt because of the way that messages are sent (satellites, etc.) which means that the world’s “messages” are all available to anyone. And, because “propaganda” was NOT an option for the USA (because of Smith-Mundt) that would have meant shutting down key message operations such as Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Asia, and Radio Free Cuba, and any other nations we want to reach. It HAD to be rewritten!

    It is no longer possible to maintain a single message to a single people (except for present day socialist nations with dictators that control their people with an iron fist but that hold little sway in the world).

    Since technology has burst the “bubble” of isolationism (for the most part), there was nothing more to be “saved” by saving Smith-Mundt. [It was genius in its day.] Future conditions of such legislation is up to the INTEGRITY of our CONGRESS and our FUTURE ADMINISTRATIONS!

    It is ridiculous to blame a single entity, or a single act of Congress. If your neighbor is a good man, you need no locks on your doors. If your neighbor is a bad man, there are not enough locks in the world to keep you safe. We cannot guarantee good people; we can only demand good people, and hope for good people, and expect good people, and reward good people.

    If there is too much “deep state” in the current legislation, it will eventually be found out and changed. Fortunately, or unfortunately, it takes TIME to accumulate knowledge and that includes empirical evidence that follows new legislation. Moaning and groaning may make some feel good, but we need HARD EVIDENCE to demonstrate bad faith OR faulty legislation. Patience is a virtue; as is fairness.

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    I believe that the death knell of civility in public life ended when the U.S. media were allowed to direct propaganda at Americans for the first time in a long time. Here is a quote about that issue I just found online:

    "....in 2013 Congress passed legislation allowing the federal government to fund and create propaganda they knew could be used to manipulate Americans on American soil. This legislation was called The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act, sponsored by Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-TX), that failed in 2011 when it was submitted on its own. But in 2013 Thornberry and his co-sponsors buried this legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2014, where it surreptitiously was passed.

    The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act overturned a prohibition against domestic propaganda that had been in place since 1948.

    Source of above quote: https://therevolutionaryact.com/fede...nda-americans/
    Okay. First off, I take it that the person who wrote this has never heard of "Project Mockingbird". That goes back decades, and one would IMO be foolhardy into actually believe it ever ended when uncovered by the Church Commission back in the mid 70's. Media, all of it, has been compromised for a very long time. But this is for a different conversation.
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2pzqf2

    Second: The very definition of "U.S. media", is even very much in question these days. For instance in some circles FOX NEWS is no longer considered legitimate media, with only "OAN" and "News Max" left to be trusted as propaganda free. But how it is determined which news organizations are CIA, Deep State, or propaganda free, is for a different conversation.

    Third: My most important point, is that none of this matters according to the Original Poster. They are not looking to cast blame, or figure out who is right or wrong, they are simply asking how we can all somehow come together despite our at times monumental differences of opinion on the very important issues of our time.

    If you trust your government
    You don't know history

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    That there are divisions is obvious, but I believe they've been deliberately increased and enflamed because divided we are weak and easily led.

    Seeking commonality in shared human values, however basic, practising compassion and empathy on a local level and seeking to support those traits in whatever way possible is perhaps one answer.

    Waking people up to the treachery and evil at the elite level would also help to put differences into perspective.

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    That there are divisions is obvious, but I believe they've been deliberately increased and enflamed because divided we are weak and easily led.
    This is true IMO.

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    Seeking commonality in shared human values, however basic, practising compassion and empathy on a local level and seeking to support those traits in whatever way possible is perhaps one answer.
    Again, IMO only, this is THE answer. First and foremost, as best as can be attained, is love your neighbor as yourself. There is also the warning against throwing rocks from glass houses. Showing every day, simple acts of kindness, is again A#1 in my book. Right down to can I possibly put a smile on this cashier's face at the local mini mart, who I can tell is having a rough day.

    Quote Posted by Journeyman (here)
    Waking people up to the treachery and evil at the elite level would also help to put differences into perspective.
    Careful with that, I'm just sayin...

    Everyone lives in varying bubbles of perceived reality. Cautiously introducing new information is one thing, but people cannot be "woken up", whatever that even means any more. Everyone thinks they're right (even people who strongly disagree with us!), and just like people don't like seeing Jehova's Witnesses at their door to save them, people don't like being "converted" to other things either.

    Every great master and philosopher has the same common theme above all else: "Be Of Service". The kind of service they are pointing to does not include making them see "the truth".
    If you trust your government
    You don't know history

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)
    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    ...

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Good post Sandy.

    Whenever I read posts like yours from someone who rarely visits the site I'm left scratching my head.

    You've been a member here since 2011 and yet have only made 16 posts, that's less than two posts per year.

    What prompts you to come back to the site each year, and yet not stick around (or at least not make more than a couple of posts each year)?

    We see you are capable of quality posts, yet you don't seem to want to engage in discussion after you've made them.
    Perhaps you can explain your philosophy on this?

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)
    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    ...

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Good post Sandy.

    Whenever I read posts like yours from someone who rarely visits the site I'm left scratching my head.

    You've been a member here since 2011 and yet have only made 16 posts, that's less than two posts per year.

    What prompts you to come back to the site each year, and yet not stick around (or at least not make more than a couple of posts each year)?

    We see you are capable of quality posts, yet you don't seem to want to engage in discussion after you've made them.
    Perhaps you can explain your philosophy on this?
    The OP owes "you/we" a philosophical explanation for her post count?

    She puts forth a very peaceful and reconciliatory vision for us all, and asks the simple question of steps we might take toward getting there. Anything to offer along those lines?
    If you trust your government
    You don't know history

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Thanks DaveToo for your comments. When I joined Project Avalon I had been following Bill and Kerry since 2006? Their interviews back then were fantastic! I learned so much from going down the rabbit hole with them, especially the discernment of "who benefits".

    Shortly after I joined Project Avalon I took time off to be with my 93 year old dad who was living alone in our family home, as his choice, in another state. That dear sweet man who only had an 8th grade education was one of the smartest people I have ever known. We had great conversations, mostly spiritual, for another two years.

    When I returned to Project Avalon several years later, I had changed and in some ways the conversations on the forum had changed. I was more of a spiritual person, however I was still interested in what the "off-worlders" were up to. I do believe they are the biggest threat to humanity and our planet with their hostile actions.

    Instead of Bill's original stated purpose of the Avalon Forum, "To encourage and support positive, constructive, and high quality dialog and networking with the goal of creating the future on Planet Earth for ourselves and our children that we want to experience" to me there seem to be a lot of antagonistic criticism from member to member. The moderators over the years have done an outstanding job of reminding us what we can and cannot say, yet they can't do everything.

    I have regularly looked at the forum over the last few years but did not post. I was not interested in commenting on another member's political views. Everyone is entitled to their own political ideas.

    I started this thread because the other night I was looking at Bill's tagline for the forum, "where science and spirituality meet". Well, we all know that today one person's science is another person's falsehood. I was hoping to start a conservation with this thread that would give us some ideas on how to come together to tackle some of the problems we face as a society.

    Because in my opinion, there are real threats from off this planet that are way more important than our personal political ideologies. Thanks to all for their comments.

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong? ....
    Quote Because in my opinion, there are real threats from off this planet that are way more important than our personal political ideologies. Thanks to all for their comments.
    Thanks for sticking around Sandy and also filling us in a bit on your background.

    In your opening post you talk about a political divide in society and ask how we can correct it.
    In your second post you change course completely and begin to talk about an even more urgent problem, extra-terrestrial threats.
    Could you expand a bit on what you perceive these threats are?

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Thanks DaveToo for your comments. I wasn't trying to change course. I just feel that if we can't come together because of our political divide, we will have a harder time dealing with bigger problems humanity will face.

    To avoid getting off topic, please look at projectcamelot.org for interviews and articles regarding bigger problems/threats. As I recall, there is an article called "The Bigger Picture".

    Back to topic, any suggestions on how to improve society's current divide?

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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)
    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    ...

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Good post Sandy.

    Whenever I read posts like yours from someone who rarely visits the site I'm left scratching my head.

    You've been a member here since 2011 and yet have only made 16 posts, that's less than two posts per year.

    What prompts you to come back to the site each year, and yet not stick around (or at least not make more than a couple of posts each year)?

    We see you are capable of quality posts, yet you don't seem to want to engage in discussion after you've made them.
    Perhaps you can explain your philosophy on this?
    Sometimes some members prefer to read and learn and only voice their opinion when they have something especially poignant to say. Some member are simply shy and prefer not to post. I think it is just best to let everyone have their "style".
    "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.” William Blake

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    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)
    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    As Patrick Henry stated in 1799, “Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs”.

    I believe all voices deserve to heard, yet we do not have to agree with them all. We are all free to choose what we believe is true.

    As David Hawkins remind us in his book Truth vs. Falsehood, “Humanity has been like a sailor at sea without a compass by which to discern truth from falsehood. The cost in terms of suffering has been enormous”. I know we all can see this suffering today.

    And as Socrates told us, “All human error is involuntary for man can only choose what he believes at the time to be a good that will bring happiness. His only error is that he cannot discern the real good from the illusory good”.

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Sandy I must respectfully disagree.

    The only political divide that is currently being pumped by the MSM is the one in the U.S.

    The Covid-19 issue far surpasses the political situation in the U.S. now in terms of worldwide importance.

    There doesn't seem to be much of a divide when it comes to Covid-19 if we go by the public's compliance
    to government measures. There is very little resistance to the government/corporate Covid-19 agenda.

    I only wish there was a divide among the public with respect to Covid-19.
    We would be much better off if there was!

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  31. Link to Post #16
    Canada Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by Karen (Geophyz) (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by sandyinatlanta (here)
    We are better together. I truly believe this statement. However as a society, we are currently so politicized on just about every aspect of life. How do we overcome this polarity? Will it crush us?

    ...

    These days, it does seem like it is harder to recognize the real from the illusion and the truth from the falsity. We all know that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but practicing this is easier said than done.

    What are your thoughts on how we move forward as a society when many believe that only they and those that think like them are right and everyone else is wrong?
    Good post Sandy.

    Whenever I read posts like yours from someone who rarely visits the site I'm left scratching my head.

    You've been a member here since 2011 and yet have only made 16 posts, that's less than two posts per year.

    What prompts you to come back to the site each year, and yet not stick around (or at least not make more than a couple of posts each year)?

    We see you are capable of quality posts, yet you don't seem to want to engage in discussion after you've made them.
    Perhaps you can explain your philosophy on this?
    Sometimes some members prefer to read and learn and only voice their opinion when they have something especially poignant to say. Some member are simply shy and prefer not to post. I think it is just best to let everyone have their "style".
    Of course everyone should have their own "style". No question about that!
    I was just curious to hear Sandy's own words as to what her personal reason was.

  32. Link to Post #17
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Of course everyone should have their own "style". No question about that!
    I was just curious to hear Sandy's own words as to what her personal reason was.
    Mod note from Bill:

    No, it was a thinly-disguised little accusation. You weren't "curious". You can sugarcoat it retrospectively all you like, but your covert criticism is evident.

    To remind you, here's what you wrote: I emphasize in red the baited hook that Sandy should be complimented for not rising to.

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Good post Sandy.

    Whenever I read posts like yours from someone who rarely visits the site I'm left scratching my head.

    You've been a member here since 2011 and yet have only made 16 posts, that's less than two posts per year.

    What prompts you to come back to the site each year, and yet not stick around (or at least not make more than a couple of posts each year)?

    We see you are capable of quality posts, yet you don't seem to want to engage in discussion after you've made them.
    Perhaps you can explain your philosophy on this?

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    New Zealand Avalon Member HaveBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rising above Us vs Them

    Remember some of us prefer to read much more than we post. It can mean that when we do make a post we are very familiar with the subject at hand and what others have had to say on it. This can help us avoid going off half cocked and making a fool of ourselves.

    Most of the time I like to read a whole thread before I post on it if I can, and especially the first post by the OP to see what sparked the thread in the first place.

    I would never think less of anyone because they don't post very often. I prefer quality over quantity any day.

    With regards to the OP, we will always have 'us and them' as long as we classify things and put things into categories. As long as people play sport, do business or have any choice at all about anything, we will have this duality.

    We will have 'us' who post not very often on Avalon threads, and 'them' who post all the time on anything. Both will be criticized by somebody and both will say they are the 'us' and the others are the 'them'.

    Long may it last too I say as it would be a very boring world if we all agreed on everything. It would also be a very dangerous and depressing world if you are not to even dare to disagree with a status quo such as the situation in China and the CCP, or North Korea or Iran.

    The real issue is, can we do this with respect and consideration with those we disagree with. Sometimes we do need to be blunt when we find our time being wasted by people whos intent is to be ridiculous and waste as much of other peoples time and money as they can. People who are just plain disagreeable for the sake of it exist. Stupid people exist. Evil people exist. Unreasonable people exist. I suggest you not engage these people at all but if you must, due to being attacked or whatever, you deal with them as swiftly and efficiently as you possibly can.

    Life is too short to be tied up with nonsense. But hey, some people actually enjoy that too! I am just not one of them.

    There really is no such thing as 'never' or 'always'.

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