Actress Ellen Page Is Now Actor Elliot Page

[Patient]

Posted by avid (here)
Don’t be daft, reality is how we were born, and kudos to all of our pairings to find each other, but to negate reality is to cast aspersions on the real folk, our neighbours/friends/support networks etc.

Humour is meant to be silly. Or has that suddenly changed as well? Yes, I did attack the integrity of how silly our society is becoming. It is being split into many pieces, thus losing its integrity in many ways.

And I am quite integrated amongst "real folk" and know them well.

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Sue (Ayt)]

Calling people "it", in my opinion is chilling, as viewing people as objects is known as a classic trait of sociopaths and psychopaths.

That appears to be what they are attempting to shape all humanity to become - perhaps in the attempt to recreate humanity in their own (psychopathic) image?

[Praxis]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.

Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

Clearly you do care, or else you would not have made the thread.

I wonder what kind of reaction this kind of post is going to create on this site? Maybe that is the point of thread. You dont actually care about the post, you like the drama that will inevitably surround this thread because it is exactly the type of thread to get people to respond to it.

When you say "I have sympathy(in general)" But then spend the next hundred words saying why you dont have for this particular movement because it feels "inorganic" you do not come across as good faith.

You really want to be the joker and it shows.

[Mike]

Posted by Praxis (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
 

I don't give two craps what gender, species, colour, or lack therof one wants to consider them-self. Your role playing makes no difference to me, just don't give me crap or look down on me, or judge me for using the 'wrong' pronoun without telling me specifically what that should be, because that would indicate that regardless of gender, you're the ass, not me.

Mike this is precisely how I feel about it.

Actually I have enormous sympathy with people struggling with their sexuality and identity. And I think it's wonderful when they discover whatever they feel is their authentic self. What's troubling is that this current movement feels very inorganic to me, and it's being thrust upon us in place of objective reality, all in the name of "compassion". The more dubious elements of it feel sick and deranged to me...like the universe is playing a cruel joke on us or something.

There's kind of a collective gaslighting of what I guess we'd call normative people here. And it's the kids I'm most worried for

Clearly you do care, or else you would not have made the thread.

I wonder what kind of reaction this kind of post is going to create on this site? Maybe that is the point of thread. You dont actually care about the post, you like the drama that will inevitably surround this thread because it is exactly the type of thread to get people to respond to it.

When you say "I have sympathy(in general)" But then spend the next hundred words saying why you dont have for this particular movement because it feels "inorganic" you do not come across as good faith.

You really want to be the joker and it shows.

I have sympathy for individuals. I do not have sympathy for the movement.

The movement, which is largely about power (masquerading as compassion) - and which consists of many disingenuous actors - makes it much much more difficult for the people who are genuinely struggling with their sexuality and identity to adjust. The trans community (if there is such a thing) is being co-opted and corrupted for sinister purposes. So is the black community, or any community really that has "inclusivity, equity, and diversity" as it's mantra.

Now go on and watch the telly like a good boy.

[Patient]

Another example of how our language is being used to mess with people; My son told me about a certain type of video game streaming sessions. A well known video game streamer will play a game for the first time without having any prior knowledge about the game.

His comments and feedback are his very first impressions of the game - they call this "A blind play through". They have just banned this saying that it is offensive to blind people.

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[Mike]

Matt Walsh from the Daily Wire breaks all this down beautifully:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8MbCeK-gR24

[Bill Ryan]

An interesting discussion about this between Keri Smith (the 'walkaway' Social Justice Warrior, with a thread about her journey here: Former Social Justice Warrior Explains Why Social Justice Is All About Power And Control) and Carter Laren of Unsafe Space.

Part of the YouTube text reads:

...they observe the memory hole into which the obsequious media has thrown the name "Ellen Page," replacing it with the woke actress' new moniker, Elliot Page. Who starred in the movie "Juno" as a pregnant teenage girl? A guy named, "Elliot," don't you remember?

The section, which is entertaining, intelligent, perceptive and thought-provoking, runs from 10:50—28:45. One of the extremely good points made by Keri is that there's a difference between "hate speech" (dictating what one cannot say) and "compelled speech" (dictating what one MUST say). She suggests this is a whole new step now being taken. And I'd agree.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=O3rL38Y5q34

[iota]

to take a line from the video ... '

he said :

"i don't go along with your mandatory take on the world"

> mandatory hmmm

someone else imposing THEIR will upon him
doesn't seem very nice ...

and he made a recommendation:

"that you speak the truth whenever it is readily available"

that is a GREAT recommendation ... period

"you are under no obligation moral or otherwise ... or to teach that to your children"

i left the middle part out because it can be ANY blank

the problem is not what 'they' are presenting to 'us'
the problem IS that WE take their presentation
and then FEEL morally obligated to suppress the authenticity of our being

to be completely subjugated, docile and complicit in agreement
with no voice of our own, no room for disagreement, no tolerance for expression of opinions

but that is not on 'them'

they can only present the situation

it is not a problem ... it is an opportunity .... to remain empowered in spite of the:

insistence
demand
command

of another that we

"DO AS WE'RE TOLD"

those that obey
should not be confused about the title of those they 'obey'

it is > "MASTER"

because a rose
by any other name
is STILL a rose

irrespective of HOW it identifies ...

[Bill Ryan]

Here are just a few of the anomalies. (Or whatever the best term may be!)

• Elloit/Ellen is married to a woman, Emma Portner. Does that mean that Elliot is now straight?
• Emma is or was a lesbian. Is she straight now? Or maybe bi? Or maybe just confused?
• Elliot/Ellen's latest film, Robodog, is in post-production. She plays a character called 'Izzy'. Is Izzy now a man as well?
• She says she's "transgender". But as best I understand, she's not had any surgical procedures. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.) It may be assumed she's still capable of bearing children, one of the definitions — presumably! — of a woman. So what is a "man"? And what is a "woman"? (Of course, this simple question has been posed many times by skeptical and quizzical commentators, and rightly, too)

[igniop]

Hello All,

So I've been a member of this forum for many years but rarely (or maybe never?) wrote or posted anything here. was mostly on the reading side of this all.

Now, as a gay person I think its time to write something and I never stop being surprised at the things I keep reading throughout the years which are coming from our "community" of "truth seekers"(?) (for lack of better terms). from reading about gays not being the "correct" spiritual way to trans people not even existing. I'm always so surprised when this is coming from people who basically I always assume to be the most open minded and loving people on this planet(and beyond). and I gotta ask - aren't we all here to express our free will as long as we don't hurt anyone or infringe on their free will?

one, two, three or ten genders - does it really matter? the universe loves variety.

so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

some people here said they don't care at all and yet I already see two videos posted here in which they keep referring to him as a "her" and thus cancelling who he might truly believe that he is.
If a friend or family member decide to change their name would you keep calling them by their old name even if you know this might hurt them deeply? even if this might show total lack of acceptance of their choice and a total cancellation of who they feel they are?

I know this subject is very annoying but the reason why trans people are so sensitive to pronouns amongst other things is just because they are so so far from being accepted. when people cant seem to accept who they are.
and if people in a place like this forum cant accept them imagine what goes on in the outside world.

why is a gender change so scary? and why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.


and to answer some of bill's questions as I know quite a few trans people from first hand:

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Here are just a few of the anomalies. (Or whatever the best term may be!)

• Elloit/Ellen is married to a woman, Emma Portner. Does that mean that Elliot is now straight?
  
  
• Emma is or was a lesbian. Is she straight now? Or maybe bi? Or maybe just confused?
  
  
• Elliot/Ellen's latest film, Robodog, is in post-production. She plays a character called 'Izzy'. Is Izzy now a man as well?
  
• She says she's "transgender". But as best I understand, she's not had any surgical procedures. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.) It may be assumed she's still capable of bearing children, one of the definitions — presumably! — of a woman. So what is a "man"? And what is a "woman"? (Of course, this simple question has been posed many times by skeptical and quizzical commentators, and rightly, too)

- being trans is not about sexual orientation - one can be both trans and straight, bi or gay or even pansexual.

- She might be bi, she might be pansexual. A very good friend of mine has a trans boyfriend (which means he was a girl and now he is a boy).
She once said the following thing: " I don't care about his body. don't care whether he is a boy or a girl. I care about his soul" (I think this sentence should sum up an (my) answer for this whole discussion)

- If Elliot is an actor - the character is whatever the character is supposed to be and thats why its called acting. have there been no woman played by man and vice versa?


- the whole point is that trans is not about your genitals. not about surgery, and not about the body. it is about what you feel from the inside. most trans people say they felt like a different gender since they were children. its actually called gender dysphoria. the reason that older people only come out now is because they might have been afraid to admit it or to accept it because our society treats them so bad. and even now. see - this thread!

[onawah]

I've shared this before, but perhaps it will be useful in this thread.
Years ago when I lived in CA. I used to attend classes, workshops and psychic fairs at a couple of the branches of the Berkeley Psychic Institute in the Bay Area.
(They had branches in other states as well, but they all bore the name of BPI, as that was the founding chapter.)
All of the teachers there and many of the students were psychic, and the general goals were to teach and learn and perform as psychics in a safe and sane manner and environment.
One of the workshops I attended there that was most instructive was about gender identify.
Looking back on it, the information that was shared then just seems like very obvious common sense to me now.
But at the time, since I had not really thought about it much, it seemed revelatory.

The main premise (which I had no problem accepting, since I already knew a bit about reincarnation) was that souls incarnating on Earth for a time, as part of their learning experience here, must commit to experiencing life as both a male and a female.
(Not sure why that is--some kind of contract that human beings as a whole have with Gaia, perhaps...)

Problems tend to arise when a soul becomes too attached to attributes of one gender or the other and so comes to favor incarnating as that gender.
Which would happen most often when a soul allowed itself to incarnate as one gender repeatedly, instead of taking turns as one for a time, and then the other.
In essence, every soul is both male and female, though it may be that souls will have a personal preference, and that's OK.
But that does not excuse any soul from the requirement of incarnating as the less favored gender; however uncomfortable that may be, it is both necessary and required.

All the behaviors we see are presumably as a result of that challenging requirement, and would probably be much better accepted simply if the root cause were understood.
I think a lot of the controversy now surrounding gender issues will dissipate once it is generally accepted that souls in essence are not one of or the other gender, but both.
And that reincarnation is not just a theory, but an actuality.
Therefore, earthlings have generally all experienced or will experience lifetimes as both male and female.
We still have a way to go before that happens, apparently...
But hacking off genitals, etc. will likely just prolong the agony for those who cannot accept, and are in resistance.

[Mike]

Thanks igniop for posting here!

I can only speak for myself obviously, but I'm sure I speak for most members here when I say that I don't think there's anything spiritually wrong with being gay. And I'm nearly also certain that everyone here recognizes a trans person's right to exist.

What I'm personally unwilling to do is rewrite the language and ignore science and common sense to accommodate people's subjective realities. For me truth comes first, then compassion.

If a trans person changes their name, no problem. I will happily address them by their new name. If they change their "gender", and start making demands as to how they are addressed, things get a little slippery for me. Addressing someone by a new name and addressing someone by a new gender are entirely different things. One requires basic respect from me - which I'm happy to offer - but the other requires I turn my reality upside down to acknowledge things that are often fundamentally untrue.

I think it absolutely does matter how many genders there are. The universe does love variety, but we all have to be playing some version of the same game for the universe to remain coherent, otherwise we get nothing but chaos. Man/woman is one of our most fundamental truths; to take that and distort it to such a degree where some are even suggesting there are 50 plus genders is insanity...the type of insanity that could topple western civilization as we know it. But that would actually require an entirely different thread. Some immediately obvious issues involve trans people in sports, and trans people in bathrooms...but there are infinitely more.

I'm calling Elliot Page "her" because she's a female, not because I wish to purposefully disrespect. I understand she would be disrespected by that regardless of my intentions, and I'm afraid that's how it has to be. She can think whatever she pleases, and as an adult American, she is free to do so. But I am also free to disagree. Elliot Page has a vagina, female DNA and chromosomes, can give birth, and a whole host of other things that make her, undeniably, female.

You are likely thinking that trans is not about genitals, like you suggested above. But I would have to ask then: why do some trans people get "gender reassignment" surgery? Why do we have respected university professors now saying there is no such thing as biological sex? Why do trans people insist on using the bathrooms of people who have different genitals than them? Or playing sports with people with different genitals? It is, unfortunately, very much about genitals. You can't play fast and loose with ideas of sex and gender and not have it be about genitals, at least to some degree. It's just impossible

What's happened with trans is, it's so confusing and contradictory that no one can understand it; and those same people that don't understand it are asked to aggressively embrace and respect it, lest they be called "transphobes" and get tossed into the cancel bin.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by igniop (here)
why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.

Caveat: most current members won't know you, or know you very well, and so none of this is personal. We have to assume by default that you're a pleasant, well-meaning person. Most Avalon members are!

But many might also feel it's rather alarming that you have that view and are eager to promote it. You're perfectly free to do so here, but I doubt you'll get much agreement.

My own view: it's not only wrong and scary, but also profoundly irresponsible.

Here's the question. I'd really like you to think about this.

A child choosing their own gender... aged 14? 12? 10? 8? 6? 4? Before they're judged mature enough to vote, legally have sex with an adult or drive a car, join the military, or maybe even leave kindergarten? Please let us know where you'd draw the line, and why.

It'd also be interesting to invite views from members here who are committed parents of real children, and (presumably) care deeply about their welfare.

One of the definitions of a child is that they're not an adult yet. They can't do life on their own very effectively. They don't have the experience to make irreversible decisions. (Many adults don't, either!)

But then I assume you're not a parent. If you were, is it possible your views might be a little different?

[iota]

Posted by igniop (here)
Hello All,

i need to preface this with all due respect or something of the sort, because i promise you that it really is

ok ... so here's the thing

in the premise "live and let live"?
there is NO room to FORCE ANYONE to do ANYTHING or THINK anyway.

not because you're gay.
not because someone else is straight

this idea that ANYONE has THE RIGHT to MAKE anyone ~ anything? ...

that is NOT "discriminatory" it is Control/Domination FORCE
heck, by now i do not even grant my parents that right any more
so i can assure you

the ONLY person who will be determining what is an acceptable thought in MY brain?
WILL be ME
that is not up for discussion
and not asking permission

and i would truly hope that holds true for YOU
and for EVERYONE reading this
if not, the problem in "identity" goes way beyond "gender" issues ....

by a certain age, you have to get CLEAR on WHO you ARE
but it CANNOT be dependent on the agreement of others

you are FREE to change your mind
you are NOT free to ENFORCE that on another

i'm really sorry if this sounds harsh in any way
i would actually encourage you to take on this way of BEING
what others do or fail to do will be completely inconsequential if you do

and then you (or others) won't feel compelled
to FORCE others into agreement with you
play it anyway you like?
that is what is going on

that is what i'm responding to

so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

igniop, this holds true on ANY number of subjects, people ARE scared ...
that's just a fact of life ... and guess what?
They have a RIGHT to be. you are too or you would not be "concerned" about the issue or what people think

right now, on the political front?
i just raised the issue and asked why can't people just speak the truth?
the TRUTH igniop
is a SCARY issue for MILLIONS right now ...

if you thought fear was isolated to the issue that concerns you ...
let me assure you that fear has NO boundaries in its invasion
as to "why"? the reasons are as varied as the individuals who feel that feeling

just as you are asking to be allowed to feel AS you do?
gonna have to give the same to them ok?
its not ok to decide for ANYONE what they can or are allowed to "fear" or not

so many people are still so scared of breaking the old paradigm of a strictly defined only male or only female. wheres our souls and source might be genderless or multi gender anyway and the universe and other planets might have so many genders or none!
(and what about the indigenous north American cultures "third gender"?)

'
i don't think our souls "might" be .. i think they ARE
but that is just MY belief
an ancient book of scriptures does specifically say:

"Spirit is neither male nor female"
so there's agreement at least somewhere

but the spirit is not the issue at hand
the physical body is

if you were born with a penis
you or a cat or a dog
you were born a male

if with the other body part
you are a female

just speaking strictly facts

NOT FEELINGS
NOT 'identification'

the cool thing about facts is that they are facts

the thing about "feelings and identification" is that they are subjective and open to interpretation

feelings and identification lie in the personal arena and
NO ONE has the RIGHT to tell another
what they SHOULD or SHOULD not "feel"

so this is what that looks like:

annie gets to feel she is a boy
and that is NO ONE 's business BUT annie's

but annie does NOT get to tell anyone else HOW THEY MUST feel either?

respect ONLY works when it is mutual

some people here said they don't care at all and yet I already see two videos posted here in which they keep referring to him as a "her" and thus cancelling who he might truly believe that he is.

what? ... is the belief that fragile?

NO ONE is "given the power" TO cancel anyone's
they can ONLY cancel what THEY think
what is really going on here is a DEMAND for agreement

and if their BELIEF is SO fragile as to be wholly dependent on the agreement of others?

a.) must NOT be that strong

b.) there are other issues now

for one, this is planet earth, there are 7 billion of us here,
EACH one of us is SUPPOSED to have a VERY UNIQUE and INDIVIDUAL view point

ONE of the concepts i have directly TAUGHT for the last 20 years in the area of personal empowerment is:

NO ONE is born to be ANYONE's "Acceptable Version" of
[/B]
not mommy's
spouse's/ partner's
friend's
tearcher's
boss's
etc

you were born to be YOUR acceptable version of YOU
NO ONE else's
and you came here (earth) SPECIFICALLY to "get that"

you should think as YOU feel is correct for you
and allow for the fact that others
WITHOUT asking your permission or whether it is ok or not?

will too

see .. this is issue is NOT about acceptance
it is about
DEMAND
FORCE/CONTROL

saying: "because i'm special, i get to impose what i WANT on others"

this has nothing to do with "gender identification"
this has to do with bending others to your will
DEMANDING COMPLIANCE

for the record ... gay people count not just over 50% of my close personal friendships but of my two best friends? the one i've known since i was 17 IS gay

now how do i empower my gay friends?

there is absolutely NO WAY i allow them to "identify" as victim

we focus NOT ON FORCING others to .... anything

we focus on ourselves
being and remaining empowered
in spite of
irrespective of
the choices or actions of anyone else

my friends don't get to go around relinquishing their power in front of me
and then blame someone else for the choices THEY are making

i learned a very long time ago that i have absolutely NO power over the external
the only power i have is within

if i focus on FORCING others (the external)
invariably, i will lose
what power do i have over the choices that others make?

none

on the other hand if i focus on myself? (within)
how i respond
the significance (if any) that i will give to someone else's actions or words?
what power do i have there?

i have ALL the power

so that is where i support my friends remain empowered

i would not be helping them very much if i agreed with them that they were a victim
instead i help them see that they are NOT and put them back in touch with their inherent power

remember:
only YOU get to choose HOW you will feel

NO ONE else can make that choice for you


and people in general could probably temper reactions to align with the way they would like to be treated ... as long it doesn't compromise who they are? wouldn't hurt at all ~ but karma HAS been known to sting on occasion

[Patient]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by igniop (here)
why is it so wrong and scary letting our children choose and letting them know that they have a full freedom of choice and full love and support as to whatever they decide to be or what they discover that they might be.

Caveat: most current members won't know you, or know you very well, and so none of this is personal. We have to assume by default that you're a pleasant, well-meaning person. Most Avalon members are!

But many might also feel it's rather alarming that you have that view and are eager to promote it. You're perfectly free to do so here, but I doubt you'll get much agreement.

My own view: it's not only wrong and scary, but also profoundly irresponsible.

Here's the question. I'd really like you to think about this.

A child choosing their own gender... aged 14? 12? 10? 8? 6? 4? Before they're judged mature enough to vote, legally have sex with an adult or drive a car, join the military, or maybe even leave kindergarten? Please let us know where you'd draw the line, and why.

It'd also be interesting to invite views from members here who are committed parents of real children, and (presumably) care deeply about their welfare.

One of the definitions of a child is that they're not an adult yet. They can't do life on their own very effectively. They don't have the experience to make irreversible decisions. (Many adults don't, either!)

But then I assume you're not a parent. If you were, is it possible your views might be a little different?

I would like to add a small thing here....(I am not asking for replies, only thought) try to remember back to when you were a little kid - how old were you when you could honestly understand the complete biological difference between the sexes.

[onawah]

To put this all in a more realistic perspective, I highly recommend listening to Dark Journalist's latest discussion with Catherine Austin Fitts at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo3lG1o4df4
...where starting at 34:22, D.J. talks about the pervasiveness of mind control, which has evolved to the extent now that there is an idea that civil rights constitutes the right of an 8 year old to choose his own gender.
To put that in a category of importance comparable to the real problems currently facing the world is patently ridiculous and proves what Fitts repeatedly posits, which is that most people are simply unable to comprehend the extent of the threat we are actually facing from the technocracy's agenda to take over the world and eliminate all personal freedom.
If you aren't familiar with D.J and C.A.F's work, that will probably not really be put in perspective for you unless you listen to the first 34 minutes first.
But for those who are familiar, it really needs no further explanation.
Something about "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel" comes to mind...
(If you are not familiar with that adage, see: https://www.theproblemsite.com/ask/2...lowing-a-camel )

[Constance]

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

[onawah]

I'd say that might mean that you have some lifetimes as a male yet to come, Constance, if you remain on Earth.
But I think that if your soul was completely feminine, I doubt that you would have much insight into male thinking or behavior, and I don't really think that is the case...
Although of course, souls come here for Earth experiencing from many realms, so our original blueprints may not match at all.
Though the ground rules for engagement here may be unavoidable if we stay long enough.
I have found the Michael Teachings to be quite helpful in understanding what those rules might be.
https://www.michaelteachings.com/
I appreciate your insights as a parent--freedom does not come without some necessary structure.

Posted by Constance (here)

Onawah, fascinating to hear you speak about your thoughts on souls and gender. I had the opportunity to see my soul 19 years ago and it wasn't androgenous or in any part masculine. It was completely feminine...