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Thread: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
    Last edited by Constance; 14th November 2021 at 18:54.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Yes -- thinking and intuition are entirely separate systems.
    how so?

    Attachment 45697
    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my intuition does not come in the form of structured sentences at all. It comes in the form of knowing, or urgency, or instinct. Also my imagination does not appear as structured sentences, my solutions to problems also do not.

    I suppose this may be semantics as I consider "thought" as a generalization for structured language in the mind which is a step down result of one of perhaps many things.

    As I mentioned earlier, inspiration can be turned into structured word, song, art, dance, etc. but the inspirational expression itself is not the base, not the inspiration itself. Egoic chatter only presents itself as structured language that represents autonomous programs and it is often extremely difficult to discern what the source of a structured language thought is. So I am making a distinction between how I define "thought" vs what gives arise to the "thought".

    Many of the things on that list are just an attempt to try to break these autonomous programs into a group and give them a label. Not Invalid though, that is not what I am saying.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 6th January 2021 at 02:40. Reason: fixed major lack of clarity
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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Hi, Thanks for responding I had family living in Melbourne a few years ago, but anyway good question with regards to what is silent communication as it is more direct and explanatory than most words people use to talk with.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    The voices that everyone has in their heads are the autonomous programs of the ego
    there's some pretty valid theories that it might be external influence as well... but I'm on the fence for all of them... I know it's not "me" it's just "I" (hard to say it I guess with out egoic language).
    Yeah. David Bohm saw thought as a system and Bohm dialogue is a very present kind of disciplined interaction of the “I” with thought, in a group setting.

    Airelle77, I’m wondering if you’ve checked his later work out. As commonly known, he spent his earlier years as a brilliant theoretical physicist and then later moved onto his work on dialogue because he saw science as too limited of a field to solve what he saw as humanity’s most pressing issue. Just listening to him or reading about it facilitates a honing in on all things of thought and consciousness, and through Bohm dialogue you learn and see in an applied manner, rather than trying to achieve clarity about thought with thought.

    Bohm brings his advanced background of quantum mechanics to this topic of thought without actually talking about physics. When it comes to this topic I’ve never seen anything as beautiful as his lens of perception and comprehension applied to thought. I’d tackle this by gaining that clarity and exploring from there, purely because you can trust the discoveries and conclusions better because they’ve been arrived at via a path paved with the laws of physics.

    I could probably find you some great, free material on this, get back to me if you’re interested.
    Yeah, I read one about zero emergy point a few years ago, thought it was brilliant, and yes I would love to hear back from you.

    THX

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
    Last edited by Constance; 14th November 2021 at 19:14.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Yes -- thinking and intuition are entirely separate systems.
    how so?

    Attachment 45697
    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my intuition does not come in the form of structured sentences at all. It comes in the form of knowing, or urgency, or instinct. Also my imagination does not appear as structured sentences, my solutions to problems also do not.

    I suppose this may be semantics as I consider "thought" as a generalization for structured language in the mind as a step down result of one of perhaps many things.

    As I mentioned earlier, inspiration can be turned into structured word, song, art, dance, etc. but the inspirational expression itself is not the base, not the inspiration itself. Egoic chatter only presents itself as structured language that represents programs autonomous programs and it is often extremely difficult to discern what the source of that structured language thought. So I am making a distinction between how I define "thought" vs what gives arise to the "thought".

    Many of the things on that list are just an attempt to try to break these autonomous programs into a group and give them a label. Not Invalid though, that is not what I am saying.
    Thanks for the explanations there and I think I now better understand why you feel that the two are separate systems.

    I like to ask questions if I don't feel I have clarity around what someone means so I trust that you don't mind me being direct.

    To my way of thinking, I don't think it is enough to only be consciously aware of what a thought is. I also think that people need to have conscious awareness around the origins of thoughts. And here's why.

    If a person has been chemically poisoned, it can affect how and what they think. For example, I think about the affects of glyphosate on the gut. If we sterilise the gut, because we are mostly made up of bacteria, the super information highway is disconnected; the connections that provide someone with a sense of self can be lost. It can potentially lead to depression.

    If a person is not consciously aware of this, they might go to the doctor for a prescription of anti-depressants or told to meditate, when in actuality what would really be required is to refrain from consuming foods containing glyphosate and doing a detox. (and putting back what is missing in the way of friendly bacteria)

    In reference to what you had to say about it being often extremely difficult to discern what the source of that structured language thought is, this is where the chart I shared can be used to identify exactly where that thought has come from. If it is a stray energy, a thought that doesn't empower that person, then that person can then consciously use their breath to re-direct those thoughts.


    The eighteen origins of thoughts chart is an excerpt from the Nature of life book. The book goes into much more depth regarding the origins of each thought.
    Perhaps the distinction of something like what we refer to as "mood" is appropriate to bring up here. I will say though that both mood and / or "emotion" are massively under-represented within our languages, and finding the right words for this description is a bit tough. "mood" and "emotion" are descriptions of a state of mind or perhaps "things" that effect a state of mind that are close to the base source before language or an expression can be had after a step down result.

    However, the expressions, whether augmented or not by "chemical poisoning", still generally draw from one's experiences and learnings. As the ego is the (currently in our "civilization") primary driver behind how we express (due to the fact that we primarily have our reactions driven by fear - perhaps a separate topic), it is from within that library that the expression still needs to be drawn.

    If I consider a nearly impossible person (but not impossible - something all need to aspire to), that has purged all fear from their mind (a Jesus like character perhaps), then a chemical poison would only affect him to the point that they may only express feeling "unwell" if even expressing that at all, but have full consciousness over how their "unwellness" might affect their expression, as "well" or "unwell" are base responses that come before any expression can be had. At this juncture they can monitor and correct the potential augmentation that might occur automatically at the expression level. This "base" area is where consciousness is meant to reside -- not within the programs that fuel our expressions in the current state of humanity (ego). So the language in that case would be extremely simple, and in fact language as we know it is not even required for those expressions at all.

    If one considers they need to move their consciousness out of their expressions and reactions and move into the area where the base mechanisms of the mind occur, you then move it, "ascend" it, above the place where this library occurs, and you then regain control of your mind from the ego and its autonomous programs.

    So I guess that sort of explains the two systems I refer to -- my intuition, as I mentioned it, is recognized (sometimes at least, lol) long before it reaches the ego level, and it occurs to me as ... instinct, I think is the best word for it (I should have brought that term up earlier - instinct of spirit). I would say we all need to learn to express, and respond to instinct, as that happens before the ego has a chance to "translate" these base properties into a linguistic expression / thought (or perhaps even somewhere between the base instinct and the linguistic expression / thought). We can then choose to put that instinct into action, verbal expression, artistic expression, etc. before it is tainted by the "library" of programs.

    I hope that at least makes some sense ... I find it tricky to explain this. Feel free to ask more questions, if it still does not.

    As a side note, most things on the list you presented would happen after instinct, and thus would affect expression and the mind, in its current, historical state. So I don't disagree there, but intuition is properly recognized at the instinct level, lest it becomes potentially tainted.

    EDIT: One last thought ...

    If I were to create a hierarchy it might looks something like this:

    Instinct / Spirit
    Ego
    Emotion / Mood
    Expression
    -memory
    -thought
    -speech
    -action / reaction

    Where you choose to place your consciousness is up to you although its not always easy to move it, and do note that feedback loops can develop anywhere below instinct, where say a thought or a memory, can reinforce an emotion or mood, which further brings about the triggering of a memory or though, and subsequent actions.

    ... something like that. -- I may have to consider that hierarchy further.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 6th January 2021 at 07:03.
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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    I apologise for the misuse of some terminology, but bear with me for here is my take on this -

    Many coaches and "spiritual" advisers will tell you that "Thoughts are things" and many believe that the creation process is a 4 step process - 1. Thoughts. 2. Words. 3. Action. 4. Results (Your reality).

    I kinda get that, but I believe that there is a step before this and it helps to understand the difference between FEELINGS and EMOTIONS and I will get to INTUITION in a moment, but first...

    For me, feelings create circumstances, but circumstances create emotions.

    What I mean by that is our reality is first created internally with a feeling which we then interpret and filter with our thoughts which are visual imagery and we interpret our thoughts with words to try and rationalise before bringing into life by way of a physical "experience".

    Rightly or wrongly, I believe that feelings are when we are consciously aware of fusing protons and electrons to create a quark/quantum of light - a space/time event (particle) in our reality from all the sea of endless possibilities and probabilities of waves of energy in our universe(s).

    I do believe we need to still our mind from endless media, social media, external sources, chatter and "noise" all bombarding us with dense negative energy and frequencies, and enjoy the silence/void/space of our own silent mind and playground of an uplifting space accessing the creative source and be at one resonating with the universe (without having to starve ourselves or sit in a cave.) in order to allow our feelings to form and create the circumstances we want/desire with the right intention and attention and NON DISTRACTION.

    Having said that, I do think circumstances create emotions not feelings.

    For me, emotions are accessed at the end of the cycle, after the period of creation (which is created with feelings). Our emotions are our reactions to the environment and circumstances we have created, but instead of recognising this and breaking the mould, we perpetuate our circumstances with our negative emotions and negative self chatter (pressing REPLAY on our negative memories) reinforcing and perpetuating our negative beliefs and self-talk to create our negative reality and environment.

    We therefore react to our "negative" environment, experience "negative" emotions, negatively verbalise these "negative" experiences, and thus condition ourselves to behave in a negative fashion.

    However, if we could take time out in our own stillness, sanctuary, living space etc to realise we are perpetuating and creating the environment we are experiencing, we can instantly change our focus to creating the positive experience we want.

    Many of those coaches and spiritual advisers tell us to change our "thinking".

    I say Change your feelings.

    If by focusing on our emotions we are preventing protons and electrons from fusing, we are preventing quantums/quarks of light from being created. We need to change our focus to our feelings, and focussing on the positive experiences we want to experience, then the cycle of creation and realisation can really begin in earnest.

    What do you say first thing in the morning - "Poor me" or "Bless Me"?

    More to the point, do the people that you know who tend to react emotionally and negatively about their life, business and everything also tend to Blame others, make excuses, and continually be in denial?

    Many react to external stimuli and blame situations, events or people for their reality.

    (Covid, trump et al?)

    You are responsible for your reality - The choices you make, the energies you choose to absorb and allow to create an imbalance in your own senses and sense of self which we often doubt. So create the reality you want.

    Last year I nearly died from SEPSIS, I nearly lost my house, I nearly lost everything because I allowed myself to be distracted and almost become consumed by external events, situations, and people - my negative emotions bombarded by all this dense negative energy reinforced and I dare I say it manifested poor, negative results in my physical body, life and reality until, I took stock and reclaimed my "peace" and gratitude for what I really have and wanted and not remind myself of what I didn't. No la, la or fluff - all true. With some major positive and actual results - the fact I am here is one alone

    Be honest, Do you tend to react or RESPOND to events, situations and people?

    Or do you prefer to create the circumstances you desire by sitting quietly and transmit peace and gratitude and allow yourself to find YOUr self in the silence and stillness and to allow the universe to CREATE fuse the reality you want, visualise the reality you want, bring it in to a mental construct, describe it to yourself in your own native tongue then EXPERIENCE it in physical form as the creation you chose to manifest.

    Experience the life you choose. Be proactive. Be Still. Be Patient. Practice & Be Positive.

    For me, Intuition is the subtle reminder from the universe that you are on point, on form and on fire and that gut feel you are experiencing is a wee reminder that the universe IS conspiring to create the reality you want because you ARE attuned, dialed in and are re-programming yourself.

    (Not tuned into all the noise and distraction of the outside world.)

    Then again, you might simply not agree - that's fine. Each to their own individuality (and path)

    Aftear all we all in a good place here in PA with Bill as he herds cats who love to play and be free

    Onwards and upwards all of you

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Thoughts are appearances in consciousness -- they are not personal till we own them.
    You dont have to invite them into tea!!! Smiling.
    Each thought accepted leads to another and a peaceful mind is lost.

    Intuition is not foolproof.
    I prefer logic and fact.
    Intuition is perhaps no better than an educated guess and how often have we guessed wrong.
    Many are the bankrupt who gambled on intuition.

    Seems to work for some though.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Could, I thank everyone who took the time to think about and regard my little post about what is a vocalized thought or what is self talk within the realms of VH EH as I believe the answers lay in observing and paying attention to these aspects of being a TI and trying to work out how it works.

    Anyway, thank you all for being positive and insightful.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    From my experience, eliminating all chatter from the mind is the desired goal. True spiritual practices, like meditation were initially designed as an exercise for exactly this. Meditation is learning and practicing to quiet the mind.
    Greatest post ever. Well done, a good start to the new year.
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday. Tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    ...

    Intuition is not foolproof.
    I prefer logic and fact.
    Intuition is perhaps no better than an educated guess and how often have we guessed wrong.
    Many are the bankrupt who gambled on intuition.

    Seems to work for some though.
    Chris
    What I would say to this is that intuition that arises as thought, can be potentially tainted, inaccurate, or just under the guise of "intuition".

    Intuition that arises as instinct, is always right, because it occurs before the ego can access it. As per my pathetically simplified hierarchy in my post above. That said how to be sensitive enough to catch it at the instinct phase is a more difficult endeavour. Most people's mind reside at the ego level, when instinct is translated by the ego into a "thought" via fear programs and language - and this is where it may get distorted. As I mentioned earlier as well, anything that is at a language based thought level, is very difficult to discern its source; this somewhat relates to the list Constance provided
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by Airelle77 (here)
    Could, I thank everyone who took the time to think about and regard my little post about what is a vocalized thought or what is self talk within the realms of VH EH as I believe the answers lay in observing and paying attention to these aspects of being a TI and trying to work out how it works.

    Anyway, thank you all for being positive and insightful.
    I noticed this thread was veering away from its intended purpose, thanks for bearing with us, I do think it is important to understand how a mind works in general, to help understand how it relates to the more specific topic you originally presented. Most of us here don't have TI experience so its difficult to add "thought" from that perspective. That said the discussion has been valuable all round so thank you for starting it.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Yes -- thinking and intuition are entirely separate systems.
    how so?

    Attachment 45697
    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, my intuition does not come in the form of structured sentences at all. It comes in the form of knowing, or urgency, or instinct. Also my imagination does not appear as structured sentences, my solutions to problems also do not.

    I suppose this may be semantics as I consider "thought" as a generalization for structured language in the mind which is a step down result of one of perhaps many things.

    As I mentioned earlier, inspiration can be turned into structured word, song, art, dance, etc. but the inspirational expression itself is not the base, not the inspiration itself. Egoic chatter only presents itself as structured language that represents autonomous programs and it is often extremely difficult to discern what the source of a structured language thought is. So I am making a distinction between how I define "thought" vs what gives arise to the "thought".

    Many of the things on that list are just an attempt to try to break these autonomous programs into a group and give them a label. Not Invalid though, that is not what I am saying.
    Spot on you got the point being made.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    From my experience, eliminating all chatter from the mind is the desired goal. True spiritual practices, like meditation were initially designed as an exercise for exactly this. Meditation is learning and practicing to quiet the mind.
    Greatest post ever. Well done, a good start to the new year.
    Once again thank you for all of your kind words and encouragement, I am pleased you understand what I am saying.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Thoughts are appearances in consciousness -- they are not personal till we own them.
    You dont have to invite them into tea!!! Smiling.
    Each thought accepted leads to another and a peaceful mind is lost.

    Intuition is not foolproof.
    I prefer logic and fact.
    Intuition is perhaps no better than an educated guess and how often have we guessed wrong.
    Many are the bankrupt who gambled on intuition.

    Seems to work for some though.
    Chris
    Hi, Great expression of understanding I think that the odds involved with gambling and feeling a hidden situation would be greatly different though.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    Quote Posted by amor (here)
    From my own experiences, it may be helpful to know the following: There is the Conscious Mind which is asleep while you are sleeping, but which can still hear words and sounds which are made by the outside world or by the UNCONSCIOUS MIND which speaks to the conscious mind in excellent English. However, the conscious mind, when asleep, although it can hear is divorced from Understanding and puts in place of the word it hears any picture suggested by the sound it hears. e.g. "gutter under a ledge" may actually be in reality, "got her under alleged." If we write down the words we hear or symbols we see representing the words, slight manipulation of those sounds will convey to us the actual message from the unconscious mind. Among things conveyed may be what actually took place in the past, or present while unconscious or what will take place in the near future. The Intuitive mind is more a knowing, in a flash, the combined message over time of things not yet verbalized or separated by the brain. This function is also employed in true Telepathy which may be experienced as a complete knowing of a memory, or as words spoken audibly in your brain by the mind.
    Also, the EH/VH works by similar methods a bit like a game of charades you second guess or pick a subliminal signal mistaking like being subject to subliminal messaeges.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    The Observer is that which knows. Intuitive comms are instantaneous. No doubt an intuition, an understanding, a knowing has occurred. The best intuitive implants change our precious paradigm.

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    Default Re: Thoughts upon intuition and what is a Thought

    I am surprised the subconscious wasn't brought up in this thread.

    I believe the senses and the conscious mind drive the subconscious mind; which is a deeper level of 'thinking'. I recall often the phrase; 'Let me sleep on it', meaning to make a decision after a good night's sleep as the subconscious gets an opportunity to continue the thinking process. I think about the subconscious mind and other writings indicate it is nearly logical or illogical. I think my subconscious is more logical than less logical. Part of the reason I think this, is my dreams are pushed in the TI style and I recall many years of my life I had rarely any dreams at all I could remember. Dreams could be considered more creative thinking than logical thinking and manifest the ideal imagination that has no limits. I am one of those who kept my child-like imagination as I grew older and find that this creative side certainly helps logical thinking when perceiving other's thoughts and ideas. I have a vivid mind's eye and I have learned to have a photographic memory, something I did not have in my youth.

    I've woken up in a cold sweat on some nights where my pillow was drenched with sweat and the rest of my body dry. Not necessarily during the dream states I've mentioned on the *Targeted Individuals: experiences, problems and solutions thread*. I felt as if my subconscious was working overtime. After 'I've slept on it' I generally make those better decisions. I had a personal policy of giving myself 2-4 weeks of thinking on hard decisions and I've found that typically there are no emergencies. There is usually plenty of time under most conditions.

    The subconscious mind is very important aspect of thought and thought processes. I wondered if anyone who was in an accident and entered a coma state was subjected to subconscious V2K. I found that some of those in a deep coma require artificial respirators because the brain cannot conduct the involuntary basic life giving action of breathing.

    Cheers

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