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Thread: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    In the 1980s Harry Palmer invented a mental erasure process called Avatar (so named long before the movie Avatar and its connotation of Avatar being a gaming identity). I have used it successfully to "dis-create" occurrences looming in the future I wanted to avoid. It would go like this vis a vis a Biden presidency:

    Get the feeling of a Biden presidency, spend time imagining and really feeling all it entails, the return to the WW3 timeline, everything

    Now if a Biden presidency were to have a shape, what would it be? Really identify with that shape and fully permeate it.

    Now expand that shape out to being as big as you can imagine it, bigger than the universe, maybe

    Really identify with it, feel it, and say

    "it is not-I, it is my creation"

    and watch it dis-create (dissolve)

    a future that hasn't happened yet can be erased, but not after it has arrived

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Tom, I took the liberty of copying the above post of yours from here to start a new thread. I've always been interested in "Avatar", which was created back in 1986.

    Harry Palmer was a former scientologist. As best I understand, his premise was that personal beliefs were far more powerful than anyone had ever really understood.

    Therefore (and this is my attempted summary!) the way to optimize one's life conditions was to work on one's beliefs, not on external circumstances or other people who might appear problematic.

    I can definitely get behind the metaphysics of that, although external factors are very "real" once they manifest physically. It's UNrealized beliefs that may have all the power to change things in the future, whether that's in a few minutes' time or a decade from now.

    I've never done the course, and have had no access to the materials. Can you say more? Do you have personal experience of its workability?

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I've never done the course, and have had no access to the materials. Can you say more? Do you have personal experience of its workability?
    I only saw the materials and that's the only part I remember. This was after the big schism and almost all Class 8 auditors and many others were doing the course. One of them said that after doing the course he was totally certain that he created his own reality. But I never noticed any changes in circumstance or beingness in anyone after having done the course. The step about expanding it out as big as you can: I was much later told by a devotee that you expand it out to the limits of its existence, but I stuck with the original wording that worked for me.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I can definitely get behind the metaphysics of that, although external factors are very "real" once they manifest physically.
    For conditions that have already manifested, I have had good success with ex-scientologist Gary Douglas' process of repeating 10 times: "how does it get better than this? You can do this as often as you like until something changes.

    Since Biden has been declared the next president, I use this open-ended process (how's it get better than this?). Maybe it will keep him from becoming president in my timeline or not, because the question is open-ended.

    Douglas says you have to be unattached to the outcome and STAY IN THE QUESTION. It's the very opposite of POSTULATES or INCANTATIONS where one declares an outcome. I am very leery of affirmations such as "Trump gets a 2nd term." These can backfire.

    For example, what if you declared "In my future Biden is not the President." That could inadvertently cause your own death. Much better to leave the future to your higher self and ask "how does it get better than this?"
    Last edited by TomKat; 8th January 2021 at 13:58.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    It doesn't sound like a great idea to me. Overcomplicated, illogical and backwards. If it hadn't come from a member who seems to constantly try and discredit a lot of positive credible info (imo) on this site, I might be a little less paranoid.

    Personally I'm going to try and focus on a positive future (rather than starting fires and hoping I can put them out).

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Get the feeling of a Biden presidency, spend time imagining and really feeling all it entails, the return to the WW3 timeline, everything

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    We manifest. It is a simple reality but a nearly impossible one to master. Extraordinarily successful individuals palpate with this energy. It’s an emotional process and therefore easily derailed because of our varying emotional nature. Ego moves in and once you are trying to influence others reality you move into the realms of power and seduction and face a whole different set of challenges. I agree a few simple phrases like “how does it get better” seem neutral. Often life has twists and turn you can’t foresee. Having Biden as President might not be your preference, but might lead you to a personally fulfilling and successful life. Use discernment!!😁

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by One (here)
    It doesn't sound like a great idea to me. Overcomplicated, illogical and backwards. If it hadn't come from a member who seems to constantly try and discredit a lot of positive credible info (imo) on this site, I might be a little less paranoid.

    Personally I'm going to try and focus on a positive future (rather than starting fires and hoping I can put them out).

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Get the feeling of a Biden presidency, spend time imagining and really feeling all it entails, the return to the WW3 timeline, everything
    Yes, I disagree with a lot Q hopium or teachings of New Age would-be leaders. Ideas should stand on their own, be tested in the field -- but not preached or provide fodder for someone trying to avoid having to work for a living by spouting a bunch of channelled nonsense or globalist propaganda for fundamentalist New Agers. The Law of One? Look behind the curtain, Dorothy.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    We manifest. It is a simple reality but a nearly impossible one to master. Extraordinarily successful individuals palpate with this energy. It’s an emotional process and therefore easily derailed because of our varying emotional nature. Ego moves in and once you are trying to influence others reality you move into the realms of power and seduction and face a whole different set of challenges. I agree a few simple phrases like “how does it get better” seem neutral. Often life has twists and turn you can’t foresee. Having Biden as President might not be your preference, but might lead you to a personally fulfilling and successful life. Use discernment!!😁
    I cast an I-ching on whether it was wise to do the Avatar process on a Biden presidency, and it (seems to) have said yes, go for it. But do it gently, don't use force. (which is how the Avatar process is supposed to be done anyway).

    Erasing the unmanifested is not black magic. It is similar to a request. But using spiritual power to make demands on the universe is black magic -- with resulting blowback.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Really identify with it, feel it, and say

    "it is not-I, it is my creation"
    Tom, I have a technical question. What does "it is not-I" mean — exactly? (One can't recite words like some kind of magic spell. One has to 100% understand what they mean.)

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Erasing the unmanifested is not black magic. It is similar to a request. But using spiritual power to make demands on the universe is black magic -- with resulting blowback.
    Not inspiring me with confidence tbh.

    And this inverted technique isn't just 2 demands then?

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Really identify with it, feel it, and say

    "it is not-I, it is my creation"
    Tom, I have a technical question. What does "it is not-I" mean — exactly? (One can't recite words like some kind of magic spell. One has to 100% understand what they mean.)
    I take it to mean it's not me, it's merely my creation. I searched for the not-I term long ago and found an association with Gurdfieff, where he says you go through your body and every identity you find, you decide whether it's I or not-I -- as a way of getting rid of identities one has acquired that are actually mis-identities. Perhaps Harry's reasoning is that it would be impossible to dis-create it if you're still identified with it?

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by One (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Erasing the unmanifested is not black magic. It is similar to a request. But using spiritual power to make demands on the universe is black magic -- with resulting blowback.
    Not inspiring me with confidence tbh.

    And this inverted technique isn't just 2 demands then?
    Inverted version of what?

    You own your own mind. Create or destroy thoughtforms to your heart's content. Nobody can say otherwise.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Really identify with it, feel it, and say

    "it is not-I, it is my creation"
    Tom, I have a technical question. What does "it is not-I" mean — exactly? (One can't recite words like some kind of magic spell. One has to 100% understand what they mean.)
    I take it to mean it's not me, it's merely my creation. I searched for the not-I term long ago and found an association with Gurdfieff, where he says you go through your body and every identity you find, you decide whether it's I or not-I -- as a way of getting rid of identities one has acquired that are actually mis-identities. Perhaps Harry's reasoning is that it would be impossible to dis-create it if you're still identified with it?
    Many thanks, and yes: I'd kind of assumed that, but wanted to be sure.

    This is overly technical (and of limited value! ) but this has similarities to Ron's Org OT13 Creation Handling. A 'creation' in this context is just about anything that is mentally created. It may not be physically real and solid, but it's still absolutely "real" and "persists" in the invisible, intangible universe of thoughts and ideas.

    An example of that might be that a promise made to someone else is "real", as is a vow, a profound wish, a sworn commitment, a stated personal goal, and so on. (When affirmations work, this is how they do.)

    Very very basically, there's a sequence of steps covering all possibilities for how it all came about, followed by sincerely thanking the creation (addressing it as a kind of sentient being) for its service and for doing its job, and then finally by the instruction (paraphrased here): "Your purpose and intention is now no longer needed, so it can now cease to be."

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Really identify with it, feel it, and say

    "it is not-I, it is my creation"
    Tom, I have a technical question. What does "it is not-I" mean — exactly? (One can't recite words like some kind of magic spell. One has to 100% understand what they mean.)
    I take it to mean it's not me, it's merely my creation. I searched for the not-I term long ago and found an association with Gurdfieff, where he says you go through your body and every identity you find, you decide whether it's I or not-I -- as a way of getting rid of identities one has acquired that are actually mis-identities. Perhaps Harry's reasoning is that it would be impossible to dis-create it if you're still identified with it?
    Many thanks, and yes: I'd kind of assumed that, but wanted to be sure.

    This is overly technical (and of limited value! ) but this has similarities to Ron's Org OT13 Creation Handling. A 'creation' in this context is just about anything that is mentally created. It may not be physically real and solid, but it's still absolutely "real" and "persists" in the invisible, intangible universe of thoughts and ideas.

    An example of that might be that a promise made to someone else is "real", as is a vow, a profound wish, a sworn commitment, a stated personal goal, and so on. (When affirmations work, this is how they do.)

    Very very basically, there's a sequence of steps covering all possibilities for how it all came about, followed by sincerely thanking the creation (addressing it as a kind of sentient being) for its service and for doing its job, and then finally by the instruction (paraphrased here): "Your purpose and intention is now no longer needed, so it can now cease to be."
    You might prefer using OT13 on it rather than Avatar. It sounds like a mix between entity handling (thank you very much, you may now leave) and Avatar.

    It all goes back to Creative Processing from the 1950s. There used to be a process for, say, a headache: make it big, make it small, make it red, make it green, light, heavy, solid, hollow, whatever... eventually: make it disappear...

    I was once worried about my wife's business being tax audited. I could feel it coming. I ran Avatar on it and it removed the concept completely from my mind. Shortly thereafter, her friend, in the same business, got audited! Not my fault -- her worthless husband said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Focus on precisely what you want, visualize it, feel it, taste it, react within it until it is so real and forget what you think is actually going on that you don't want. What will happen is that your wish will materialize and knock out the former seeming reality. During this process keep away from other viewing of anything else.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Deborah (ahamkara) (here)
    We manifest. It is a simple reality but a nearly impossible one to master. Extraordinarily successful individuals palpate with this energy. It’s an emotional process and therefore easily derailed because of our varying emotional nature. Ego moves in and once you are trying to influence others reality you move into the realms of power and seduction and face a whole different set of challenges. I agree a few simple phrases like “how does it get better” seem neutral. Often life has twists and turn you can’t foresee. Having Biden as President might not be your preference, but might lead you to a personally fulfilling and successful life. Use discernment!!😁
    This!

    The concept that every manifestation is first a vibrational reality, caused by thoughts and emotions, is a very challenging concept, and I've spent nearly 25 years studying it.

    This is a vibrational universe and we translate vibration through our physical senses. The OP (just my understanding) is on the right track thinking that by imagining a scenario, he can produce it in physical reality. If he's strong enough, he likely can.

    This concept has ancient roots. Jesus said that when a person prays, he should pray knowing that what he's asking for has been given (paraphrase). Back then, the concept was even more difficult to get across to humans than it is today, and I don't know if the persona called Jesus ever really existed, but someone who wrote those words understood--at least to some degree--how the world changes.

    The Rosicrucians in Constantly Creating Circumstance put forth a clear methodology for creating what you want through strong thought-forms. Pagans, wiccans, any of those who think they are conjuring past entities to do their bidding, may be connecting with thought-forms of like mind and thought never dies, so it becomes a stronger thought-form. If we are all vibration -- and science tells us that our physical world is at a basal level -- then perhaps what we see is much more than what we think we see.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    This is overly technical (and of limited value! ) but this has similarities to Ron's Org OT13 Creation Handling. A 'creation' in this context is just about anything that is mentally created. It may not be physically real and solid, but it's still absolutely "real" and "persists" in the invisible, intangible universe of thoughts and ideas.

    An example of that might be that a promise made to someone else is "real", as is a vow, a profound wish, a sworn commitment, a stated personal goal, and so on. (When affirmations work, this is how they do.)
    I'm going to look into the OT13 Creation aspect. Thank you for that.

    My personal experience with the "thoughts create" thing is that it's very real, but thoughts create a vibrational reality, it's actually one's emotions that determine how that reality manifests in the physical world. For example, despite someone's best intentions, occasionally, they'll "wake up on the wrong side of the bed" and virtually everything that happens that day is another step toward disaster. It's like that saying, the worse it gets the worse it gets. They're subconsciously (or maybe consciously, too) waiting for the other shoe to drop--and it often does.

    But then, there are times when you just feel like you've got the world by the tail--you're on a roll--and nothing can stand in your way.

    It's not the thoughts that are bringing the manifestation, but rather one's emotions.

    Here's the trick--as I understand it--if you can create within yourself the emotion that comes with being wealthy, really feel it and hold it, money will come. But, if you think and focus on a need for money, yet have a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach that you can't pay next month's rent, that sick feeling is working against you in your intended manifestation.

    Thoughts are important because thought forms are vibrational creations, but it's our emotions that determine what manifests in our lives.

    That's just my understanding.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by Brenya (here)
    My personal experience with the "thoughts create" thing is that it's very real, but thoughts create a vibrational reality, it's actually one's emotions that determine how that reality manifests in the physical world. For example, despite someone's best intentions, occasionally, they'll "wake up on the wrong side of the bed" and virtually everything that happens that day is another step toward disaster. It's like that saying, the worse it gets the worse it gets. They're subconsciously (or maybe consciously, too) waiting for the other shoe to drop--and it often does.

    But then, there are times when you just feel like you've got the world by the tail--you're on a roll--and nothing can stand in your way.

    It's not the thoughts that are bringing the manifestation, but rather one's emotions.

    Here's the trick--as I understand it--if you can create within yourself the emotion that comes with being wealthy, really feel it and hold it, money will come. But, if you think and focus on a need for money, yet have a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach that you can't pay next month's rent, that sick feeling is working against you in your intended manifestation.

    Thoughts are important because thought forms are vibrational creations, but it's our emotions that determine what manifests in our lives.

    That's just my understanding.
    There are various ways to influence the future with your mind. Positive thinking/visualization is well-known, but it rarely works beyond a couple of times (beginner's luck) and then the subconscious usually comes in and kills the ability. Erasing your part in a creation (the Avatar process) is another way, and it can be used indefinitely. As to feeling one can't pay the rent, that usually causes necessity and intent to kick in, resulting in the rent being paid one way or another. Silva Mind Control used to teach visualizing the result and dismissing the negative mental feedback to that visualization. That might work or it might not.

    A key factor in the Jesus method of assuming you already have it (continuous affirmation) is how accustomed are you to having this type of thing? A millionaire could more effectively visualize receiving a thousand dollars than could a pauper. In scientology this was called "havingness." An example of this principle: I had a job where I went various places and fixed things. One day I visualized winning the lottery. The very next day I had 3 calls to fix things at the lottery office, where I had never been before. A service call at the lottery fit in better with my havingness level than did winning the lottery! I guess that's why they say the first million is hard, the rest is easy.

    And of course, Harry Palmer would probably say you forgot to erase your belief in havingness :-)

    But a good thing about erasure vs creation is that erasure doesn't cause negative kickback from this co-creation we call the universe.
    Last edited by TomKat; 9th January 2021 at 14:49.

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Brenya (here)
    My personal experience with the "thoughts create" thing is that it's very real, but thoughts create a vibrational reality, it's actually one's emotions that determine how that reality manifests in the physical world. For example, despite someone's best intentions, occasionally, they'll "wake up on the wrong side of the bed" and virtually everything that happens that day is another step toward disaster. It's like that saying, the worse it gets the worse it gets. They're subconsciously (or maybe consciously, too) waiting for the other shoe to drop--and it often does.

    But then, there are times when you just feel like you've got the world by the tail--you're on a roll--and nothing can stand in your way.

    It's not the thoughts that are bringing the manifestation, but rather one's emotions.

    Here's the trick--as I understand it--if you can create within yourself the emotion that comes with being wealthy, really feel it and hold it, money will come. But, if you think and focus on a need for money, yet have a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach that you can't pay next month's rent, that sick feeling is working against you in your intended manifestation.

    Thoughts are important because thought forms are vibrational creations, but it's our emotions that determine what manifests in our lives.

    That's just my understanding.
    There are various ways to influence the future with your mind. Positive thinking/visualization is well-known, but it rarely works beyond a couple of times (beginner's luck) and then the subconscious usually comes in and kills the ability. Erasing your part in a creation (the Avatar process) is another way, and it can be used indefinitely. As to feeling one can't pay the rent, that usually causes necessity and intent to kick in, resulting in the rent being paid one way or another. Silva Mind Control used to teach visualizing the result and dismissing the negative mental feedback to that visualization. That might work or it might not.
    Jose Silva--now there's a blast from the past. I remember following (trying to follow) one of his techniques for meditating after rising at night from sleep to use the restroom, getting a drink, and then lying back down. Try as I might, I'd be sound asleep again within minutes. Silva's visualization method, which I don't remember from before--probably because I couldn't get past the middle-of-the-night thing--is very similar to others I've learned.

    I like using the movie' Field of Dreams as a jumping-off place for understanding why we see less-than-amazing manifestations although we badly want the positive ones. In the movie, they pushed the idea that "If we build it--they will come." "They" in the movie were ghost baseball players, but I find that the intrinsic idea behind that movie to be very true -- whatever we build (emotionally) we will receive.

    At this point someone always says -- but, what about the babies? How can any baby attract anything negative--cancer, abuse--when it doesn't even form complete thoughts? The answer, as I understand it, is that the infant is picking up on vibrations in its environment.


    Quote A key factor in the Jesus method of assuming you already have it (continuous affirmation) is how accustomed are you to having this type of thing? A millionaire could more effectively visualize receiving a thousand dollars than could a pauper. In scientology this was called "havingness." An example of this principle: I had a job where I went various places and fixed things. One day I visualized winning the lottery. The very next day I had 3 calls to fix things at the lottery office, where I had never been before. A service call at the lottery fit in better with my havingness level than did winning the lottery! I guess that's why they say the first million is hard, the rest is easy.
    LOL -- I love that story! Yes, that type of thing is so true. I also agree that it's so much simpler for a millionaire to visualize money than a pauper, and that's where so many people become discouraged. The Roscicrusions offer a bit more of a detailed visualization that includes imagining the desired scenario, then expanding the visualization to include the senses--what does the money smell like? Is there a chill in the air? What is the taste in your mouth? As soon as the visualization is complete, the person is instructed to "put it away" mentally, because the work is done. Unfortunately, being human, we have a tendency to pull it back out and then second-guess it.

    Quote And of course, Harry Palmer would probably say you forgot to erase your belief in havingness :-)

    But a good thing about erasure vs creation is that erasure doesn't cause negative kickback from this co-creation we call the universe.
    I'm interested in learning more about Palmer's ideas and I ordered Living Deliberately a couple of days ago from Amazon (the used version because I'm cheap), and I'll let you know what I think.

    This is a fascinating topic. Thank you for your post!

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    Default Re: "Avatar": a methodology for creating and discreating things

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    One day I visualized winning the lottery.
    Me too, back around 15 years ago. Here's what happened:

    I was talking with a good friend about visualization and manifestation. We had a great conversation, and I was feeling very clear and inspired. Without thinking about it at all, I said to him: "Look, I'll show you. Here are Saturday's winning lottery numbers."

    I had a paper and pen, so I just wrote them down, the first four in quick succession. By the time I got to the fifth, I kind of became aware of the craziness of what I was doing, but I wrote the number down anyway. Then I crunched to a halt, like Wiley Coyote running off a cliff, and just stopped, thinking hard. I wrote a number down anyway, which I had "tried" to see.

    Come Saturday, the first 4 numbers were correct. The 5th was just one out. The 6th was totally wrong.

    If I'd have got all 6, I'd have won millions. All 5, tens of thousands. The first 4 got me £100 or so. (This was in the UK.)

    The moral of the story: don't try, and don't think.




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