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Thread: A recap.

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: A recap.

    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)

    It is a bit hypocritical... when at the slightest disagreement with the narrative here through unagressive posts that just stated facts, Bill Ryan limits free speech, censors my posts and silenced a dissenting voice. 1984 much? Cancel culture? Censorship?
    From what I have noticed you have bandied about the words "lies" and "facts" very loosely in your posts without citing any sources or supporting your assertions. The video you cited was absurd and failed to support anything on your list in a meaningful way.

    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.

    Perhaps it would be more productive to hash out the truth underlying each of your assertions by citing your sources and inviting a productive analysis of the claims. That might warrant more responses from the "pro-Trump" posters here on the forum.

    Kind Regards,

    T Smith
    Last edited by T Smith; 23rd January 2021 at 14:17.

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    Default Re: A recap.

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)

    It is a bit hypocritical... when at the slightest disagreement with the narrative here through unagressive posts that just stated facts, Bill Ryan limits free speech, censors my posts and silenced a dissenting voice. 1984 much? Cancel culture? Censorship?
    From what I have noticed you have bandied about the words "lies" and "facts" very loosely in your posts without citing any sources or supporting your assertions. The video you cited was absurd and failed to support anything on your list in a meaningful way.

    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.

    Perhaps it would be more productive to hash out the truth underlying each of your assertions by citing your sources and inviting a productive analysis of the claims. That might warrant more responses from the "pro-Trump" posters here on the forum.

    Kind Regards,

    T Smith
    The list I posted (which I will not paste again here) was already very long, I don't think it would be productive to make it even longer.
    Anybody can search info regarding all the points in the list and I would welcome a discussion on any topic. I am always open to putting my opinions to the test and see if they hold up after hearing a different point of view.


    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.
    But what exactly would I need to add to facts as these ones:
    • has pardoned four Blackwater security guards who were given lengthy prison sentences for killing 14 civilians in Baghdad in 2007, a massacre that caused international uproar
    • sold bombs to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and UAE despite congressional objections that it would lead to Saudis dropping bombs on civilians in Yemen
    • 9/11 DOMESTIC CRIMINALS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE: NO
    • According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238."
    • kept pushing to hold the G7 summit at a Trump resort
    • The President tweeted in 2017 that he would order the classified JFK assassination files to be released. Sets New 3-Year Deadline, the Trump administration is withholding certain material in the JFK Assassination archive for extra review

    These are just examples. Are you saying that these statements are incorrect?
    I agree that I might be wrong, please explain.
    Last edited by Zamolxe; 23rd January 2021 at 18:54.

  4. Link to Post #23
    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: A recap.

    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)

    It is a bit hypocritical... when at the slightest disagreement with the narrative here through unagressive posts that just stated facts, Bill Ryan limits free speech, censors my posts and silenced a dissenting voice. 1984 much? Cancel culture? Censorship?
    From what I have noticed you have bandied about the words "lies" and "facts" very loosely in your posts without citing any sources or supporting your assertions. The video you cited was absurd and failed to support anything on your list in a meaningful way.

    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.

    Perhaps it would be more productive to hash out the truth underlying each of your assertions by citing your sources and inviting a productive analysis of the claims. That might warrant more responses from the "pro-Trump" posters here on the forum.

    Kind Regards,

    T Smith
    The list I posted (which I will not paste again here) was already very long, I don't think it would be productive to make it even longer.
    Anybody can search info regarding all the points in the list and I would welcome a discussion on any topic. I am always open to putting my opinions to the test and see if they hold up after hearing a different point of view.


    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.
    But what exactly would I need to add to facts as these ones:
    • has pardoned four Blackwater security guards who were given lengthy prison sentences for killing 14 civilians in Baghdad in 2007, a massacre that caused international uproar
    • sold bombs to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and UAE despite congressional objections that it would lead to Saudis dropping bombs on civilians in Yemen
    • 9/11 DOMESTIC CRIMINALS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE: NO
    • According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238."
    • kept pushing to hold the G7 summit at a Trump resort
    • The President tweeted in 2017 that he would order the classified JFK assassination files to be released. Sets New 3-Year Deadline, the Trump administration is withholding certain material in the JFK Assassination archive for extra review

    These are just examples. Are you saying that these statements are incorrect?
    I agree that I might be wrong, please explain.
    i'm not arguing these statements are incorrect. I'm arguing the facts are presented to manipulate and deceive.

    For example, the Blackwater security guards, whom Trump pardoned, who were tasked to guard a convoy of four heavily-armored vehicles carrying US Army personnel, were (allegedly) ambushed by Iraqi insurgents. A firefight ensued. 17 civilians tragically perished. I would call this the fog of war.

    Please allow me to be clear. I never supported this war, nor did Trump. He inherited it. Nor did he start any wars like the ones he inherited during his four year term so to enrich the controllers of previous POTUS administrations and Congress. So he pardoned the four men who responded (lethally) to an armed ambush? Does the buck really stop at the bottom end of the command chain? What kind of justice is that? The moral of the story is, WAR SUCKS. If we are so outraged by the deaths of these innocent civilians, I would suggest we little people STOP SANCTIONING senseless wars that only serve the interests of our masters and sacrifice our children. If we want to assign blame for those 17 innocent deaths (which apparently is what this controversy is about), how about holding the elites accountable who sent our soldiers into war in the first place and hired mercenaries like Blackwater only to serve their own interests?

    The entire dynamic is disgusting. And the way we respond by demanding blood from our own, equally disgusting.

    I don't have a problem with (most) of your facts; I have a problem with how they are spun to depict a false reality.
    Last edited by T Smith; 24th January 2021 at 04:53.

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  6. Link to Post #24
    Avalon Member jaybee's Avatar
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    Default Re: A recap.

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Quote Posted by Zamolxe (here)

    It is a bit hypocritical... when at the slightest disagreement with the narrative here through unagressive posts that just stated facts, Bill Ryan limits free speech, censors my posts and silenced a dissenting voice. 1984 much? Cancel culture? Censorship?
    From what I have noticed you have bandied about the words "lies" and "facts" very loosely in your posts without citing any sources or supporting your assertions. The video you cited was absurd and failed to support anything on your list in a meaningful way.

    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.

    Perhaps it would be more productive to hash out the truth underlying each of your assertions by citing your sources and inviting a productive analysis of the claims. That might warrant more responses from the "pro-Trump" posters here on the forum.

    Kind Regards,

    T Smith
    The list I posted (which I will not paste again here) was already very long, I don't think it would be productive to make it even longer.
    Anybody can search info regarding all the points in the list and I would welcome a discussion on any topic. I am always open to putting my opinions to the test and see if they hold up after hearing a different point of view.


    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    You are not posting facts. You are posting loosely-agreed upon interpretation of events, at best, which happen to suit your biases, and which are often blatantly false or spun to deceive, and then you circle back around those biases as givens. This is precisely the tactic used by professional propagandists.
    But what exactly would I need to add to facts as these ones:
    • has pardoned four Blackwater security guards who were given lengthy prison sentences for killing 14 civilians in Baghdad in 2007, a massacre that caused international uproar
    • sold bombs to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and UAE despite congressional objections that it would lead to Saudis dropping bombs on civilians in Yemen
    • 9/11 DOMESTIC CRIMINALS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE: NO
    • According to a 2018 report in The Daily Beast, Obama launched 186 drone strikes in Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan during his first two years in office. In Trump’s first two years, he launched 238."
    • kept pushing to hold the G7 summit at a Trump resort
    • The President tweeted in 2017 that he would order the classified JFK assassination files to be released. Sets New 3-Year Deadline, the Trump administration is withholding certain material in the JFK Assassination archive for extra review

    These are just examples. Are you saying that these statements are incorrect?
    I agree that I might be wrong, please explain.
    i'm not arguing these statements are incorrect. I'm arguing the facts are presented to manipulate and deceive.

    For example, the Blackwater security guards, whom Trump pardoned, who were tasked to guard a convoy of four heavily-armored vehicles carrying US Army personnel, were (allegedly) ambushed by Iraqi insurgents. A firefight ensued. 17 civilians tragically perished. I would call this the fog of war.

    Please allow me to be clear. I never supported this war, nor did Trump. He inherited it. Nor did he start any wars like the ones he inherited during his four year term so to enrich the controllers of previous POTUS administrations and Congress. So he pardoned the four men who responded (lethally) to an armed ambush? Does the buck really stop at the bottom end of the command chain? What kind of justice is that? The moral of the story is, WAR SUCKS. If we are so outraged by the deaths of these innocent civilians, I would suggest we little people STOP SANCTIONING senseless wars that only serve the interests of our masters and sacrifice our children. If we want to assign blame for those 17 innocent deaths (which apparently is what this controversy is about), how about holding the elites accountable who sent our soldiers into war in the first place and hired mercenaries like Blackwater only to serve their own interests?

    The entire dynamic is disgusting. And the way we respond by demanding blood from our own, equally disgusting.

    I don't have a problem with (most) of your facts; I have a problem with how they are spun to depict a false reality.

    Thanks T Smith for tackling the first thing on the Shorter List (replacing the Longer List) of alleged Bad Things Trump Has Done -

    It's exhausting trying to address all the mud that was / is flung out on a daily basis at Trump - there were and probably still are whole teams employed by one of the richest men in the world Jeff Bezos - Amazon and Washington Post owner - just tasked with putting a negative spin on everything Trump did and said...digging the dirt and if there was no dirt to dig or twist - making stuff up - they were/are masters of the 'List' - ammunition for the foot soldiers to refer to -

    regular people living their lives and holding things together in their lives haven't got time to spend endless hours researching and writing about it all... we don't have the luxury of employing the full time teams like Bezos has....


    But I did take a look at the Blackwater Security Guards pardon for a little while to see what was going on there... and I agree with what you've said...

    A little more detail that I deduced from a couple of articles I read on the matter..

    There was one of them that wasn't pardoned and he was the one who contradicted the stories of the ones who got lengthy prison sentences - he got a very short sentence (a year and a day) because he worked with the prosecution - maybe he was paid to turn against his fellow security guards but in any case he benefited from giving evidence against them - there appears to be a political angle to it all as well that I interpret as the Blackwater Guards may have been sacrificed by Obama / Biden Administration to show that they were prepared to prosecute Americans - to appease Iraqi Citizens who were quite understandably sick to death (literally) of what the US (and UK etc) was doing to them and their country... which would help to keep them in line -



    I'm guessing Trump listened to what the families were saying about it all and decided that they deserved a pardon because they were caught up in the fog of war but could also have been targeted for a show trial to make the warmongers (Bush / Obama etc) look less warmongery..


    I hear Biden is already planning to send a couple of thousand US troops to Iraq -

    The Globalist Agenda for the region is obviously going to go full steam ahead again - and they have regained control of the most powerful military on the planet - and can use that military as a proxy army - - - - again -
    Last edited by jaybee; 24th January 2021 at 06:04.

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