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Thread: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

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    Finland Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
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    Default You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    The powerful see the present moment as an opportunity to consolidate their control over society. The obstacles that we have been historically used to seem almost parochial by today's standards. The dilemmas facing mankind are now global in nature, global immigration, global pandemic, global climate change, global freedom, and to a lesser extent global racism.  The only thing missing from the list is a global war and if you don't think that it is possible you're fooling yourself. Anyone who thinks that these global problems just wandered up on the porch one day and knocked on the door is terribly mistaken. Each one of these problems is manmade, this is not an accident it is by design. 
     
    Just like a hurricane that gets its power from all the open seas and all the warm waters, the globalists get their power from all of politics. Those attempting to consolidate control could care less what party label you choose to wear, the only thing that matters is that you actually choose a label to wear. It is the division created by politics that gives them power. I can't say it loud enough or fast enough, divorce your political party. Peel off the political bumper stickers, throw away your protest signs and tell your children that they should climb above the political horizon and look down because from there they will learn the truth. 

    Once you have seen the truth for what it is a grab for global governance, it makes the tactics (race, pandemic, climate, immigration, freedom, speech, etc) being used to achieve that end seem rather insignificant. 

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Food for thought. I've only recently seen the 'logic' of love your opponent beyond lip-service. I'm convinced anything else is leading us to destruction. I have this sense we are already in a new world war, just not conventional warfare. But my opinion is: unless more of us see the logic of love your opponent, it can/will slide into conventional civil wars and or world war

    If you're stuck in this with your annoying sister, the waves of panic don't help to figure out the cerebral solution; it's the most natural thing to get annoyed, but anger is addictive


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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I agree totally and have mostly thought that way all my life. My motto is: never allow
    yourself to be divided between parties.
    That is the biggest controlling mechanism "they" hold over us.

    We are on to their scam.
    Bye, BYe scammers.
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

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    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    There are people who really are liberal, and there are people who really are conservative. It is an aspect of who we are and I think both sides, left wing and right wing, to use the old cliché, are necessary to make the bird fly, to keep the debate going, the ideas flowing, to keep developing and rebuilding our world and make it work better. But both these tendencies have been hijacked by the media, by politicians, by pundits. If you are on the left, the media tells you the problem is the people on the right. And if you are on the right, the media tells you the problem is the people on the left. The problem isn't the people on the other side, the problem is the media that is trying to get you to hate, and the media that is taking your attention away from what are the real problems.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    There are people who really are liberal, and there are people who really are conservative. It is an aspect of who we are and I think both sides, left wing and right wing, to use the old cliché, are necessary to make the bird fly, to keep the debate going, the ideas flowing, to keep developing and rebuilding our world and make it work better. But both these tendencies have been hijacked by the media, by politicians, by pundits. If you are on the left, the media tells you the problem is the people on the right. And if you are on the right, the media tells you the problem is the people on the left. The problem isn't the people on the other side, the problem is the media that is trying to get you to hate, and the media that is taking your attention away from what are the real problems.
    There doesn't need to be any "wings". We aren't birds, and nor is a bird any type of relevant symbol for ideologies and solutions.

    I don't think of any of my belief structures and ideologies as belonging to any "wing". Once you plot a linear line and are asked to define yourself along that line you have imprisoned yourself into a one dimensional prison of someones else's creation. Why would we do that? Should the shaping and results of our experiences, knowledge, intuition, spiritual values, etc. not always be free to exist within any dimension which is most appropriate?

    Not only must we divorce our political party we must stop judging events, ideologies, people, policies, problems, solutions, on this artificially created system for the purpose of control, as belonging to some point on this one dimensional linear "evaluation" system. It is insulting to our core being as free and sovereign humans.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 26th January 2021 at 02:35.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There doesn't need to be any "wings". We aren't birds,
    I wasn't implying that we all need to eat bird seed, build nests from twigs and saliva or fly south for the winter. I was using this as a metaphor to show how we are all differentiated parts but socially, we are part of an organic whole.

    Our economy functions because we have individuals with different skills and problem solving abilities: some of us mechanical, some of us artistic, some of good at solving interpersonal problems, etc. Our world works well because individuals have these different specialized skill sets.

    When it comes to fixing our political, economic, legal, educational, health and other systems, through planning and rule making, i.e. "politics" we have some people focused on how these systems leave people behind ("people on the left") and others focus on how these systems can get so bogged down in bureaucracy and regulation ("people of the right"). What we need is a world where both these views and visions are equally appreciated and seen as complimentary, instead of the one we have now, where you are supposed to see on of those sides as the enemy.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    There doesn't need to be any "wings". We aren't birds,
    I wasn't implying that we all need to eat bird seed, build nests from twigs and saliva or fly south for the winter. I was using this as a metaphor to show how we are all differentiated parts but socially ...
    Lol ... yes I got that, sorry if that came directed at your comment more than intended, just that my point was that we need to lose the limited ideology of a "left wing" and a "right wing" - I feel the path forward can't be restricted into such terms - the two term system was created and has the result of placing people into separate camps, it serves no other purpose, so I choose not to even recognize it, and suggest that others also lose that distinction thereby eliminating its result or power to divide, that's all ... no offense intended.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 26th January 2021 at 06:42.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    A lot to be said for Anarchism. Do away with all forms of government - it is harmful to us.
    People are naturally self organising and local communities will take care of themselves.

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by safara (here)
    A lot to be said for Anarchism. Do away with all forms of government - it is harmful to us.
    People are naturally self organising and local communities will take care of themselves.
    "Rulers" not required ... nor desired. Nor useful.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Netherlands Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Yes. Anarchism.

    Unlike popular belief anarchism follows some rules and is applicable in a meridad of methodologies.
    Some of which are quite well thought out.

    What they have in common is a population size which stays relatively close to communal/tribal.

    So those in power. Have a chance of being safeguarded against corruptable influences and a blind eye to the needs of the few.

    Although with any system there are costs. Which people have to be willing to pay.

    That said they are far fewer and less hurtfully than the cost of living in a community the size of countries.

    With Love
    Eelco

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    Avalon Member Merkaba360's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I would imagine that the most evolved societies would resemble anarchism in many ways.

    To explain my thinking, lets take a look at socialism for a moment. I believe even Marx said that socialism shouldn't evolve from feudalism. The true socialistic qualities (not the fake authoritarian scam) i believe are quite advanced and are/will be woven into capitalism as it advances. Transcend and include - not destroy the former but build upon it.
    People are always arguing how socialism is great in theory but utterly fails in reality. I think its quite clear that it fails at this stage due to lack of technology and consciousness. The problem is that people keep looking to the horrors of the past to predict the now or future of true socialistic aspects. Soon, I dont think the past applies with technologies such as block chain and others allowing more interconnectedness, sharing, teamwork, and transparency.

    We are progressive thinkers and often support the more advanced and ideal ideologies like Anarchy. To me, adopting aspects of socialism is/will work during this century. I think anarchism is still going to be quite unrealistic for now or at least until humans go thru a major consciousness shift.

    Yes, small "tribes" can organize and work things out, but some of those tribes will work out to be nasty, imperialistic brutal warlords no? I suspect that society is building a massive system for a reason. Is anarchism going to allow enough organization for the Aquarian age of technology, in order to build fusion reactors or whatever? The aquarian age of technology needs massive organization. Then we can factor in Aliens. Is an anarchist system going to give us the capabilities to deal with and defend against highly advanced ET races? I doubt it.

    I am no political science academic, but it seems to me that, for now, we want the top of the system to be Capitalism (Make it less regulated and freer market though). Then on the level of businesses and organizations it should be more socialist. This would make a more fair environment for workers and keep mega corporations from becoming too huge to overpower the Capitalist top. Then, perhaps on a more local level there could exist more anarchy. Not sure what this would look like. Maybe we would have more freedom to create our own local communities and cities deciding more of our social freedoms and what not. Then people would be able to move to those communities/cities that best suit their lifestyle. Las Vegas for example would probably move toward massive freedoms for people who like to party or entertainment. Although, im not sure it would work to do in current massive cities where many who can't move away disapprove. I guess just build new cities and let the migration happen. When visiting new areas, we can just ask our AI assistants about local laws to quickly check whether we can do something or not.

    So, from this view, we must divorce our small pigeon hole thinking (political or otherwise), in order to realize that the TRUTH/reality of whats happening is far more complicated and blended than clean cut ideologies. Hopefully our system becomes so complex, that the complex thinking makes it impossible for the elite to trap us into simple mutually exclusive camps that keep us fighting. lol

    This thread says " You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth"
    and I would add, "We must divorce ourselves from simpleton dualistic thinking to see the complex integrated blended truths."

    This is the yellow meme of psychological development in spiral dynamics. It is where we develop complex systems thinking (like an Elon Musk) and the stage where we reach integration. Integrating the illusion of duality is key.
    Last edited by Merkaba360; 26th January 2021 at 09:03.

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I go for Anarchism as well, tired of all the corrupted bastards trying to say what we have to do.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Merkaba360 (here)


    Yes, small "tribes" can organize and work things out, but some of those tribes will work out to be nasty, imperialistic brutal warlords no? I suspect that society is building a massive system for a reason. Is anarchism going to allow enough organization for the Aquarian age of technology, in order to build fusion reactors or whatever? The aquarian age of technology needs massive organization. Then we can factor in Aliens. Is an anarchist system going to give us the capabilities to deal with and defend against highly advanced ET races? I doubt it.

    Good points. That's what falls under the price to pay in my ideas.
    To be honest, I think that smaller communities will find ways to collaborate on larger scale projects, but evolving into a technologically advanced society may prove difficult.
    That said I don't think the Aquarian age should necessarily focus only on technological advancement though. Before Uranus was discovered Aquarius was (and according to some still is) ruled by Saturn.
    An Aquarian age in that sense is more a focus on inspiring new ideas (not technology per se). But still holding firm on well established and firm structure.


    With Love
    Eelco

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Quote Posted by Merkaba360 (here)


    Yes, small "tribes" can organize and work things out, but some of those tribes will work out to be nasty, imperialistic brutal warlords no? I suspect that society is building a massive system for a reason. Is anarchism going to allow enough organization for the Aquarian age of technology, in order to build fusion reactors or whatever? The aquarian age of technology needs massive organization. Then we can factor in Aliens. Is an anarchist system going to give us the capabilities to deal with and defend against highly advanced ET races? I doubt it.

    Good points. That's what falls under the price to pay in my ideas.
    To be honest, I think that smaller communities will find ways to collaborate on larger scale projects, but evolving into a technologically advanced society may prove difficult.
    That said I don't think the Aquarian age should necessarily focus only on technological advancement though. Before Uranus was discovered Aquarius was (and according to some still is) ruled by Saturn.
    An Aquarian age in that sense is more a focus on inspiring new ideas (not technology per se). But still holding firm on well established and firm structure.


    With Love
    Eelco

    To add my two cents on the points raised ...


    First, I want to point out that anarchy is not generally what we have been programmed to believe and feel it is. The dictionary definition is "without rulers". That's it. Not "without rules", not "without organization", etc. Once that definition is properly clarified suddenly a whole new path of thinking and ideas is freed up.

    A society that has organized itself in productive methods of self checks and balances, has risk mitigation built in, promotes non rivalrous dynamics that isn't ruled from a top down structure, can be an anarchist society. The only thing it requires to classify as "anarchist" is the lack of top down rule. that's it. Everything else is fair game. Promoting regulation at the individual and familial level and even community level, and having a system that allow an exchange of ideas concepts and actions to occur at any of those levels, will avoid all the issues of corruption that any top down form of governance is susceptible to.

    Second thing I want to point out is that non-rivalrous dynamics can fairly easily be shown to be greatly superior to rivalrous dynamics. All that is required is to understand this at an individual level, and keep a critical mass of this understanding. Because non-rivalrous dynamics actually do work in a more superior fashion, when properly understood and implemented within transparent systems, corruption wont have a chance to be effective. It will become a less desirable route. Right now the ever ubiquitous idea that rivalrous dynamics are required to make a "society" work, along with a lack of transparency are the only things that keep corruption being effective. Remove those and the dynamics completely change.




    I mentioned this elsewhere but I'll give this example again: I follow computer hardware tech news quite closely. 15 years ago or so when youtube emerged, it became a new platform for PC tech writers and content creators to try to broaden their audience and stay relevant, as magazine popularity dwindled. The competition was quite fierce as each content creator saw things in a rivalrous dynamic, carried over from the previous publication world. So attacks, put downs, one-upmanship, stealing others content and claiming it as their own, etc. etc. were quite common in this arena.

    Fast forward to 2020. Such dynamics are now frowned upon by the viewers and backlash can happen in an instant. Tech content creators are now almost all collaborating, giving shout-outs to each other, sharing snippets of each others content with naming and linking their sources for their viewers to check out, holding friendly competitions together, doing fundraisers together, have each other on their content pieces as guests, etc. etc.

    Why did this occur? Because someone started the trend and it proved to get better audience approval, and felt better to do it. It is now the norm. And now because the aren't busy fighting each other, they are now working together to keep the big corporations and their shady tactics in check.

    As an example, recently one unbiased and honest Australian tech content creator was sent a letter from one of the two main video card manufacturers, stating that unless he "changed his editorial direction on his hardware reviews", he would no longer be sent samples for reviews. The corporation felt that because he was given samples to evaluate that he must review them the way the corporation wanted him to, and threatened to pull his samples if he did not.

    The tech community got wind of this and within just a couple days dozens and dozens of the top name tech reviews publicly shamed this company in the worst way. It was incredible. The company issued not one but two apology letters to the content creator in question, and several others to other content creators, and to the public in general, with a full admission of guilt and wrongdoing and a vow to never act like that again.

    The non-rivalrous dynamics of the group of tech content creators crushed instantly the shady and corrupt rivalrous thinking and control that the corporation was used to using in trying to "look better" than its competition by using shady marketing tactics. And not to mention the entire tech community of content creators all got more views and subs as a result - the viewers were incredibly pleased by these actions - it is what people want to see. It is now what many people want and recognize as superior.




    It is easily and demonstrably a superior way of thinking and working, and by route helps to keep corruption of higher levels at bay. Combining a form of anarchy with the concepts of non-rivalrous dynamics easily indicates a far more superior system than anything we have tried in our "civilizations" by a long shot. Moving from where we are to somewhere there though is the tricky part, but at least now we are in a position to start seeing and realizing the potential possibilities.

    People just need to start thinking outside of the box and seeing what is possible -- not what they think is not possible, just because they don't see it.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 28th January 2021 at 05:10. Reason: spelling grammar clarity etc.
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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Anarchy is whatever people want it to be, an imaginary system with no problems attributed to humans. How can there be problems when the system is gone? Give me a flawed system with transparency, accountability, truth then mercy, and everyone caring about each other. I know right? Pull the other one. That's because people are the issue. Give me transparency and accountability though, yeah. But 'anarchy as a system', not so sure. Wishful thinking and, my opinion: attributing problems to the wrong thing

    Make no mistake, I believe I have seen anarchy work well, it was a positive experience (for me) - it worked REALLY well. We protested against the church of scientology anonymously. By design, the collection was unaccountable; it was war. A different leader for each raid project. It was a meritocracy of ability to influence others with nothing but words posted anonymously - rather knowing their name, reputation or social status or even their picture. You just didn't know who was saying that thing you were reading. Sure we'd meet for 'in real life' protests, and lols, then you'd see who was who. But the next 'project', someone else would be leading, because the previous leader burnt out and had enough. Point is this 'ad-hoc', project by project, self-organising collective still had hierarchies, but they were not set in stone, or even last long. Certainly they would not be carried over to their children like royal hierarchies for example.

    But it wasn't transparent, or accountable, or a system I'd want to be ruled by. Anarchy is only good for arranging small squads to go to war with institutions imho, like against the Co$. It was a long time ago for me, over a decade now. If civilisation crumbled and reformed from nothing, the short lived anarchy would turn into some kind of hierarchy by typical humans, bringing their typical flaws. It would never be no system.

    I love the O.P.; a challenge to reflect on ones hope in political parties, or perhaps hate against the opposing party. Give me small government, a population willing to protest, with dashings of mercy along with their quest for truth, and thirst for accountability any day over so called 'no system', I'm not convinced it ever happens, certainly not for long. Longer post than I thought I'd write... thank you for getting this far xx

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Anarchy is whatever people want it to be, an imaginary system with no problems attributed to humans. How can there be problems when the system is gone? Give me a flawed system with transparency, accountability, truth then mercy, and everyone caring about each other. I know right? Pull the other one. That's because people are the issue. Give me transparency and accountability though, yeah. But 'anarchy as a system', not so sure. Wishful thinking and, my opinion: attributing problems to the wrong thing

    Make no mistake, I believe I have seen anarchy work well, it was a positive experience (for me) - it worked REALLY well. We protested against the church of scientology anonymously. By design, the collection was unaccountable; it was war. A different leader for each raid project. It was a meritocracy of ability to influence others with nothing but words posted anonymously - rather knowing their name, reputation or social status or even their picture. You just didn't know who was saying that thing you were reading. Sure we'd meet for 'in real life' protests, and lols, then you'd see who was who. But the next 'project', someone else would be leading, because the previous leader burnt out and had enough. Point is this 'ad-hoc', project by project, self-organising collective still had hierarchies, but they were not set in stone, or even last long. Certainly they would not be carried over to their children like royal hierarchies for example.

    But it wasn't transparent, or accountable, or a system I'd want to be ruled by. Anarchy is only good for arranging small squads to go to war with institutions imho, like against the Co$. It was a long time ago for me, over a decade now. If civilisation crumbled and reformed from nothing, the short lived anarchy would turn into some kind of hierarchy by typical humans, bringing their typical flaws. It would never be no system.

    I love the O.P.; a challenge to reflect on ones hope in political parties, or perhaps hate against the opposing party. Give me small government, a population willing to protest, with dashings of mercy along with their quest for truth, and thirst for accountability any day over so called 'no system', I'm not convinced it ever happens, certainly not for long. Longer post than I thought I'd write... thank you for getting this far xx

    I would respond to the first point with saying that people are the problem in as much as this is because people build systems that easily allow abuse of power and corruption to flourish.

    You have a bit of a contradiction in your post. First you say that anarchy can be what ever one wants it to be. Actually, all anarchy means is "without rule" this means not having a top down structure. That's it. It indicates nothing more. You can create any system you wish inside of that, but those systems, what they are and how they work, are neither anarchy or not anarchy. It doesn't apply. Anarchy is only the idea that there isn't a top down governance.

    The contradiction lies in the fact that you say "it can be whatever one wants" - which is in the right direction, but with my clarification, then you go on to give an example of some systems that created some actions and got some results, then you say that that is all anarchy is good for - understandably because that was your experience of something you observed interpreted as being anarchy. This comes back around to drive at my point that we need to start thinking outside the box, and begin to see what is possible, not what we have previously observed, interpreted, been taught or thought.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 27th January 2021 at 23:10.
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    I would respond to the first point with saying that people are the problem in as much as this is because people build systems that easily allow abuse of power and corruption to flourish.
    Couldn't disagree more, but you make up your own mind as I do

    Quote You have a bit of a contradiction in your post. First you say that anarchy can be what ever one wants it to be. Actually, all anarchy means is "without rule" this means not having a top down structure. That's it. It indicates nothing more. You can create any system you wish inside of that, but those systems, what they are and how they work, are neither anarchy or not anarchy. It doesn't apply. Anarchy is only the idea that there isn't a top down governance.
    Yeah the opening paragraph is cancelled by the rest of my monologue, but I stand by what I said in: it isn't no system for long. Give me transparency, and those other things I said along with it, any day over supposed 'no system'

    Quote ... thinking outside the box, and begin to see what is possible, not what we have previously observed, interpreted, been taught or thought.
    Couldn't agree more, but that ain't anarchy. But it is why I love you DeDukshyn *edit: love and value
    Last edited by Matthew; 27th January 2021 at 23:24.

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    ... Give me transparency, and those other things I said along with it, any day over supposed 'no system'
    ...
    Agreed. As I indicated in my long winded post, transparency IS a requirement. I proposed transparency along with a system that put regulation on the bottom and center, and removes it from the top, thus: transparency + anarchy, but I did not go as far as to define what all the internal system with built in risk mitigation would look like, but I can imagine them. I spent the majority of my life solving system problems and risk mitigation as a profession

    EDIT: May I also propose that perhaps you couldn't disagree more with my point #1, because we haven't seen a society where self regulation is properly infused and raised in the human from an early age, that allow proper self regulation to occur where external governance is not needed? Or have you seen this and have an example where it doesn't work?

    EDIT2: I also didn't propose "no system" -- again, anarchy is not "no system".
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 27th January 2021 at 23:51.
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I'm jealous of how effective you are at holding people to account. I'm afraid I still disagree with point one.... Made this brain picture; elaborates on my point about humans (we are ALWAYS flawed, it's human nature. We just always make a flawed system. If we had a perfect system, we'd screw it up without accountability etc). Gives further kudos to you imho

    Click image for larger version

Name:	to err is human.jpg
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I can relate this back to the opening post!!!!

    It's more healthy to treat political parties as a collection of flawed humans than heros or saviours.

    Phew

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