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Thread: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    I'm jealous of how effective you are at holding people to account. I'm afraid I still disagree with point one.... Made this brain picture; elaborates on my point about humans (we are ALWAYS flawed, it's human nature. We just always make a flawed system. If we had a perfect system, we'd screw it up without accountability etc). Gives further kudos to you imho

    Attachment 45959
    I think our society may have a hand in the programming that causes people to come to such conclusions.

    I watched a video just yesterday, and the speaker made the point of questioning, why is it when people are ruthless, corrupted, etc, people just say "well that's human nature". And why is it that when someone acts out of love and compassion, we say "oh isn't that special".

    Is it true that acting with love and compassion is not actually human nature and that it only represents "something special"? If we can be programmed by society to the level that we view something like a an act of love as something that is "special" while acts of evil are "just human nature", then can not we possibly have been programmed with the belief itself that abuse and corruption is human nature?

    Full circle back to my comment on properly educating and raising people to understand true human nature and the tools and abilities to self regulate.

    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Yes well put, and as the opening post says "It is the division created by politics that gives them power.". So we are doing our bit with a stoic conversation

    Humans are magical. Also, we are flawed, blindsided and prone to corruption. But nice to agree wholeheartedly with you there

    edit: even the best human isn't 100% for 100% of the time

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Yes well put, and as the opening post says "It is the division created by politics that gives them power.". So we are doing our bit with a stoic conversation

    Humans are magical. Also, we are flawed, blindsided and prone to corruption. But nice to agree wholeheartedly with you there

    edit: even the best human isn't 100% for 100% of the time
    Agreed. And I would never want 100%. I just would like to see a world where our flaws are celebrated as our diversity in strength, and not taken advantage of or perpetuated to cause human suffering or exploitation. There's an extremely big space between accepting being flawed and having a world run by psychopaths.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Yes well put, and as the opening post says "It is the division created by politics that gives them power.". So we are doing our bit with a stoic conversation

    Humans are magical. Also, we are flawed, blindsided and prone to corruption. But nice to agree wholeheartedly with you there

    edit: even the best human isn't 100% for 100% of the time
    Agreed. And I would never want 100%. I just would like to see a world where our flaws are celebrated as our diversity in strength, and not taken advantage of or perpetuated to cause human suffering or exploitation. There's an extremely big space between accepting being flawed and having a world run by psychopaths.
    Sooner or later resources get scarce, and hunting parties have a hierarchy based on hunting skill. We're not always handed mana from heaven. To work together successfully to survive, the groups are not divided, in the way we are often divided by politics(*1), or they wouldn't function. But human behaviour switches between those handed food and those who are hungry, thirsty, etc - it's classically not such a pretty picture with the latter, especially after a moment of no system (not trying to argue that anarchy is no system with this, like times after a revolution). It's a good reminder you give that we share REALLY well, but it does depend on levels of desperation.

    *1 - sort of back referencing the opening post (O.P.), kinda :/

    And right back to the O.P. we are better to hold tptb to account when we are not vehemently divided, even though we have very different outlooks

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Yes well put, and as the opening post says "It is the division created by politics that gives them power.". So we are doing our bit with a stoic conversation

    Humans are magical. Also, we are flawed, blindsided and prone to corruption. But nice to agree wholeheartedly with you there

    edit: even the best human isn't 100% for 100% of the time
    Agreed. And I would never want 100%. I just would like to see a world where our flaws are celebrated as our diversity in strength, and not taken advantage of or perpetuated to cause human suffering or exploitation. There's an extremely big space between accepting being flawed and having a world run by psychopaths.
    Sooner or later resources get scarce, and hunting parties have a hierarchy based on hunting skill. We're not always handed mana from heaven. To work together successfully to survive, the groups are not divided, in the way we are often divided by politics(*1), or they wouldn't function. But human behaviour switches between those handed food and those who are hungry, thirsty, etc - it's classically not such a pretty picture with the latter, especially after a moment of no system (not trying to argue that anarchy is no system with this, like times after a revolution). It's a good reminder you give that we share REALLY well, but it does depend on levels of desperation.

    *1 - sort of back referencing the opening post (O.P.), kinda :/

    And right back to the O.P. we are better to hold tptb to account when we are not vehemently divided, even though we have very different outlooks

    "sooner or later resources get scarce" -- for a very long time there has been enough resources on the planet for everyone plus a whole bunch - how do you think we got to 7.5 billion of us? Only recently has even the question of too many people had to be taken seriously. If you distributed all the wealth equally, it would end up to being millions for each. If you spent resources to ensure food production was efficient (50% of all food produced in Canada is trashed), everyone could eat. Its the current top down power structures that cause the inequality, the programming we receive and the reinforcing by our "society" that has caused the inequality or at least the lack of rectification.

    ... If a giant asteroid came and threatened to destroy ... blah, blah, blah ... then eventually, blah, blah ... and in worst case scenario ... blah blah ... (meant with a smile and a poke)



    Maybe in this arena, I am an optimist as to what is possible - I am a dreamer, but I dream with reason and passion ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    United States Avalon Member ceetee9's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    I’ve been M.i.A. for a long while on Avalon, but I have recently began reading some of the “New Posts” again and this particular post provoked me to chime in with my two cents—for whatever it is worth.

    First, I completely agree with the thread title premise. Decades ago I “divorced” myself from the political party that I joined when I became old enough to vote because it was my father’s political party and because I thought at the time that I had to join a political party. At that time I didn’t know s#$t from Shinola about politicians (nor did I much care), but my father was a very intelligent physicist and I respected him greatly so I figured his party was the party to join. I suspect that many people joined the party of their parents.

    At any rate, after several years of paying some attention to what the politicians (both Democrats and Republicans) said versus what they actually did once elected, I learned that many, perhaps most, politicians would say and do anything to get elected and then do whatever was in THEIR best interest rather than what was in the people’s or country’s best interest. So I left the party.

    It seems to me that political parties have done more harm than good because they not only entice members to vote for candidates based on the party’s alleged ideological beliefs, but they also divide us by propagating the myth that one party is good and cares about people while the other party is bad and cares little about people. By design, I believe, they rely on members who will vote for their candidate based upon perceived party ideological alignment rather than learning about the candidate and what they profess they will do once elected. Parties also promote a mob mentality which has never been more evident than what we’ve witnessed in America over the last four years. Mobs are never good and virtually guarantee division and endless fighting. I can’t believe that is what any rational person would want.

    I suspect that most people are like myself and have some conservative views and some liberal views. Imagine what might happen if political parties were eliminated and we were forced to learn about a candidate, their background, integrity and ethics, and what they want to accomplish if elected. And then imagine if our representatives had to vote for bills that cited one and only one objective. No more 2500 or 5600 page bills that no one reads that are filled with mostly pork that has nothing whatsoever to do with the alleged intent of the bill. Wouldn’t it be much harder for politicians to become corrupt so easily when they didn’t have a party juggernaut to protect them? When it wasn’t so easy for them to hide payoffs and kickbacks in multi-thousand page bills? When it was obvious what they intentionally voted for or against and could then be held accountable for it?

    Sadly, I think we are headed in a total opposite direction in the U.S. We may soon have a single party authoritarian dictatorship with no freedoms or rights and everyone will be fully controlled by a technocracy run by psychopaths, sociopaths and eugenicists. Heaven help us all if that comes to fruition.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    The current fiasco on Wallstreet against the hedge fund managers and the banks is the perfect example of getting rid of political labels. Small investors defeated wall street at their own game by joining together regardless of their political labels. Even if you don't understand stock trading the important takeaway is that in unity we have "ALL" the power.


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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    https://libcom.org/files/AlexanderBe...fAnarchism.pdf

    Here's a book that made me an anarchist manny moons ago.
    It's a bit dated, but made a compelling case back then.

    With Love
    Eelco

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    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Before we can create, let alone sustain, working harmoniously together in symbiotic fully transparent communities of equality and sustainability that are governed/coordinated by meritocratic leaders/spokespersons, who then coordinate on a global platform designed to support sovereign communities, we need an uprising of strong Emotional Intelligence that will stand up to sociopathic intelligence.

    That Emotional Intelligence needs to rise above the naive idea that all human beings are good deep down therefore they should all be afforded equal contribution/power within communities. Sociopaths have proven time and time again, ad infinitum, that they cannot control their desires for tyranny and power at the expense of others.

    For example, the most ludicrous current affair we have today is the attempt by many countries to work favourably with Communist China.  Communist leaders and sympathizers will never, ever, ever, play nice, let alone fair.  Their ulterior motive will always be expansion of their dictatorship and control.

    Pompeo claims the U.S. wanted to give Communist China the benefit of the doubt in relations, but it didn't work.  Of course it didn't f-ucking work.  Communists are terrorists and democratic countries should NEVER play nice with terrorists!  The arrogance of global leadership in thinking they could "influence and change" China's ideology over time, if they extended their hand of friendship and partnership, is mind blowing.

    If our democratic countries made a vow to never trade with China for anything, ever, they would be outcast.  And rightly so as this would eliminate their global footprint forcing them to clean house or be left behind.  There is nothing in China that the world needs to survive.

    Global unity is a good idea and is inevitable now that the world is intimately connected via technology but not while we continue to let sociopathic leaders roam the planet and certainly not while we have oligarchs in control who are placing their self interests of power ahead of ethical decision making for planet and human symbiosis.

    But sadly we have the likes of Xi Jinping making speeches at the World Economic Forum that people are salivating over because they actually believe he is telling the truth with his sugar coated political rhetoric.  (The comments under his speech, which was posted on another thread, are alarming for their blind ignorance, let alone logical common sense which should dictate never to trust or support a mad man and his slippery tongue.)

    It isn't any wonder oligarch globalists commenced a campaign to weaken younger generations by convincing them that teenage hormonal mood swings, (which have a use by date), are frightening mental health problems that require them to sever communication with families (elders) and to demand Safe Spaces for discussing global ideas and progress that must not be confronting or triggering to their "fragile emotions".  The plan is working as it continues to retard the Emotional Intelligence of youth growing up in the age of the internet and social media.

    Many of our future generations literally refuse to hear, let alone discuss, traumatic, rampant corruption; and the likes of Xi Jinping are laughing uncontrollably at their good fortune.

    Absurd naivety from ethically motivated people has got to stop.  It simply isn't enough to keep sticking our heads in a bucket of rainbows hoping that dark agendas, from dark human beings, will miraculously have disappeared when we pop up for a look around. 

    It is the Elders responsibility to show strength by recognizing, highlighting and resisting all programs of infantilization (and naivety) that are leading our lambs to slaughter.

    Elders who do not align with the contemporary programs of "false global unity" have been forced to the fringe awaiting our death and subsequent eradication from the new world that is emerging under communist idealogy.  Somehow we have got to find a way to break through the barriers imposed on us to help deprogram those who have succumbed to this sinister global cult.

    If we can achieve exposure of this birds eye view of what is really going on then perhaps our political parties will eventually unite against the senseless tactics listed in the OP:
    Quote Once you have seen the truth for what it is a grab for global governance, it makes the tactics (race, pandemic, climate, immigration, freedom, speech, etc) being used to achieve that end seem rather insignificant. 
    Last edited by Gemma13; 30th January 2021 at 04:28.

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    Avalon Member Eva2's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    'Communist China should be “given no respect” when it arbitrarily detains and arrests foreign citizens like Australian citizen Cheng Lei, according to former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger.

    Australian Journalist Cheng Lei was detained in China six months ago, Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne has now confirmed she was formally arrested last Friday, accused of leaking state secrets.

    Mr Kroger said the Chinese spokespeople push “nonsense and bulldust” and then expect the rest of the world to “believe this drivel” about respecting their processes.

    “This is a government where 99 per cent of people charged are found guilty,” he said.

    “It is a dictatorial, repressive, communist regime. It’s one of the last and worst communist regimes in the world, and they should be given no respect at all on issues like this”.

    Former Labor minister Stephen Conroy told Sky News China is becoming increasingly adept at “hostage diplomacy”.

    He said the arrest is a broader more “chilling message” when it comes to issues around Hong Kong, free trade, and Taiwan.

    “This is just another little message to the rest of the world.”'

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    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Hello,

    Nice this thread still rolling..

    When I said I go for Anarchism, I should be more specific in that post, well here it goes as a complement..

    After reading many posts I saw that when Anarchism pops up, some people associate it with a global system and "automagically" try to fit Anarchism into some sort of hierarchical structure with a leader, and that's where it is all wrong, Anarchism has no leaders, it has rules like any other system and rules can be decided on a consensus base, I do not believe a global anarchic system would be a solution (I mean one huge anarchic system for each country or even worse one global anarchic system - this view is crazy bat ****i in my opinion).

    But I do believe in communities elsewhere like "pockets", just like a P2P system work for the internet, how it works and how and why people adhere to the system?

    In the last 20 years or so I am seeing an enormous amount of people going into decentralization process just because they can't take anymore of the "classic" government or the usual ****i, and when anyone come to this point in life, for better or worse this person is ready to change. Anarchism can be a solution in terms of community or not (depends on each individual and what they are looking for, Buddhist community for instance would satisfy some, but not others..), I had lived in a community for a few months in full time, I won't deny has a lot of problems, and people normally will oppose to do certain things or obey certain rules, but there must always be a consensus and people should be free to express their own ideas and not only vote in pre-existent old ideas, every and single person in the community should decide alone or in groups what ideas should be voted for (this is what I had faced and mostly disgusted me, because it is the same old **** as electing a new president, people got the option the didn't chose for, and the options in the end will be to fulfill their agenda anyway, and this is what they call democracy).

    Doesn't matter what, there will always be flaws, loopholes in the system and people will always exploit it as we can see in many of the greatest novels written in the past.

    +----
    | Notes from Underground (Russian Novel by Fyodor Dostoevsky in 1864) <<----- source of inspiration for We.
    | When the Sleeper Wakes (by Wells in 1899) <<----- source of inspiration for We.
    +----
    | We (Russian Novel by Yevgeny Zamyatin in 1920) <<----- The inspiration of all that follow in this short list ?
    +----
    | Brave New World (by Huxley in 1932)
    | Burmese Days (by Orwell in 1934) <<---- current situation in Burma is chaotic and getting worse by the day, it is a perfect example of authoritarian regime (with and without US/UK manipulation)
    | Darkness at Noon (by Koestler in 1940)
    | 1984 (by Orwell in 1949)
    | Fahrenheit 451 (by Bradbury in 1953)
    +----

    All these works/novels, share the same genre: dystopian, political fiction, social science fiction, philosophical fiction, science fiction and there is a few critics out there saying Huxley's works were a product of plagiarism, I don't believe I had read Huxley works and also these other novels, at least partially and they have nothing that suggest that, if that were the case we could perfectly say that `We` was based on Genesis from the Bible, due to many similarities in the very first chapters with Adam, Eve and The Serpert (satan). Ok enough I do not want to go off topic here.

    Some people call it utopia for laziness of think and take action in a possibility of a new systems, communities are very real since the ancient times when people trying to escape the tentacles of their authoritarian system (nothing changed, look thousands of years ago and look today, except that we got technologies, but who knows of ancient civilizations had their own technologies as well), but I know from the time of Romans and Egyptians there were communities and they referred to that as "Island" or "Pockets", we also have examples of communities that came into existence, flourished and disappeared, it is all expected behavior, since nothing is permanent in this life, things will come and go all the time even the most powerful systems, new systems arise and die and cycle repeat itself throughout the time, we may be heading to some sort of feudalism again, who knows.. what I know is: the resistance will always exist.

    I am in contact with an Anarchist community since 2009, I have to say they have their problems and they settle it all by themselves without involvement of the state (even in case of death, I went to a village funeral once, they burn their own dead in small temples - old style if you know what I mean), they have outside affairs which is a person responsible in the community who speaks for the "law people" to the outside community, affairs like land taxes, planning & constructions, crops sales via cooperatives, etc etc .. this is one example of Anarchism working in practice for centuries (I apologize but I do not expect people living is metro cities to understand what I am posting here, no offense, I myself had a hard time to get around these issues).
    Anarchism can be employed in any size of community of watchful citizens, but more the community grows more organized it has to be, the community where we have our piece of land in total has around 3.500 members (including areas of other "districts" that are inter connected) in a large area (our specific surroundings has about 190 people only and the elders are the ones who says the final word for everything based on common rules of the community - they are like mediators not really any authority, they respond with officials but they themselves are not officials, they work for no one but themselves and the community), last year we got new neighbor in the land, a family with 6 or 7 that moved from a closer area and they are building their home, in the other hand the youngest generation are all hushing out to metro cities in the illusion of become rich.

    I would like to suggest the book "The Art of Not Being Governed - An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia by James C. Scott" - I do not agree with everything in this book but in general lines it gives a lot of good insights of all those tribes living in southeast Asia in the region they call Zomia and it has a great reference list at the end.

    It is sad to see how all these indigenous people are doomed to be extincted because of modern times (slavery, conscription, taxes, hard work, epidemics, and battles) but don't think they are going away without a fight, they are tough people.

    The *.ism subject in general is very contradictory per se, this post is in the best of my intention, knowledge and experience with Anarchism and I am completely open to new ideas, I do not take any of these systems as granted, let's keep this thread rolling if we may and thanks for all the posts it is very insightful.
    Last edited by palehorse; 10th February 2021 at 02:58. Reason: added some more explanation
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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Saw this tweet and thought of this thread



    Copy:
    Mack
    @_Kenziepuff
    Idolizing a politician is like believing that stripper really likes you.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: You Must Divorce Your Political Party To See The Truth

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    Saw this tweet and thought of this thread



    Copy:
    Mack
    @_Kenziepuff
    Idolizing a politician is like believing that stripper really likes you.
    That could not be more accurate ... I'll have to remember this one.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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