Samsara, Karma & How To Escape

[greybeard]

Ramana Maharshi was dying of cancer and when asked if he was in pain responded There is pain -- there was an awareness that pain was happening.
One translation of Nirvana is death. The me, the ego dies.
Regardless compassion remains.
Tims opening post sums it up for me.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...l=1#post456904

[palehorse]

When you practice Anapanasati Bhavana (mindfulness with breathing in/out) there is no self (Anatta) there is no suffering (dukka) to disturb the mind, hence there is no gambling at all.

I see the modern studies of Buddhism (specially in the western) is giving a way too much focus on unnecessary things like wheel of kamma, instead of focus on meditation itself, when the answers already exist but no one is paying proper attention, without going any further into Buddhist cosmology which is packed with bizarre explanations of the Loka (worlds/realms of existence), we do not need to get there in order to practice mindfulness and that is all we need.

Not learning the true nature of the *āyatanas and the five **khandas, which is the root cause of dukka (suffering or even burden of life), is not knowing Buddhism at all. This is the only reality to be perceived according to the genuine Buddhist practices, which follow with Anatta once one properly mastered the āyatanas and khandas.

* 6 internal medias organs/gates: sight, sound, smell, taste, touch and mind/memory, there is also 6 external organs senses related.
** five aggregates, five material sense organs (eye, ear, nose, tongue and body), which resumes into our ordinary existence of living beings.

There is a few suttas (dialogues and discourses) where Buddha talks with layman and a group of layman about the samsara (wheel of life) and kamma and the words of explanation are clear and logical, there is nothing magic about that, basically it is not to harm or create suffer to yourself or another being (my word: the wheel has tooth and it bites back). Also I would look into paṭiccasamuppāda (dependent origination), it explains in details the correlations above.

I personally like the talks of Suan Mokhabalarama
https://www.suanmokkh.org/retreat_talks/142




I do not see Buddhism as a religion but a science of the mind even though we have temples and monks preaching Buddhism as a religion all around the world.

Here are some materials from the BIA (Buddhadasa Indapanno Archives) Buddhadasa personal notes, there is great books available what was written with materials from this Archive, some of them available for free, anyway all the materials in the Archives are freely available.
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3271 (The Wheel of life)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3257 (Anapanasati Bhavana)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3313 (paṭiccasamuppāda - dependent origination)
https://www.saraniya.com/books/medit...Abhidhamma.pdf (The full Theravadan philosophy and study of the workings of the mind)

[Lunesoleil]

Posted by Constance (here)
As long as we realize that it is an illusion and that it is in the game of consciousness ...

Maya illusion, it is our real world which is an illusion ...

[Catsquotl]

Posted by Constance (here)

Just to clarify what you are saying here...You didn't mean the word meditation in the sense of using a method to instil stillness, emptiness, silence, solitude, inwardness and openness to the nature of life, you meant meditation as in "thoughts", "thinking"? I'll use this sentence as an example of what I mean. He was meditating on a better way to do things. Is that what you meant?

Posted by Catsquotl (here)
Just the universe reacting on our intentions... As it does...

This is entering into the area of Freewill. And this is another area of contention and confusion. Does it exist or not?

No to the first, I mean vipassana. To be specific the way it was thought by ajaan tong sirimangalo.


As for entering an area of freewill when the universe reacts to our intention..
I don't see or meant that connection.
Most of my intentions if you will are fueled by subconscious hangups and patterns.
I don't think most intentions are in the conscious awareness..

Say the intention to move when you need to pee or you just stubbed your toe again. Maybe there is some free will there, but I'd bet that the intention to move then is hardly in the realm of utilizing this free will thing.

[Catsquotl]

Posted by palehorse (here)

Yup nothing like catching yourself stomping angerly to and fro in the meditation hall over some perceived idea of wrongdoing the mind is making up at that moment.

[Catsquotl]

Posted by palehorse (here)
Here are some materials from the BIA (Buddhadasa Indapanno Archives) Buddhadasa personal notes, there is great books available what was written with materials from this Archive, some of them available for free, anyway all the materials in the Archives are freely available.
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3271 (The Wheel of life)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3257 (Anapanasati Bhavana)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3313 (paṭiccasamuppāda - dependent origination)

If I may add a pdf to this list?
https://www.saraniya.com/books/medit...Abhidhamma.pdf (The full Theravadan philosophy and study of the workings of the mind)

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Constance (here)
This is entering into the area of Freewill. And this is another area of contention and confusion. Does it exist or not?

Most definitely yes. But it is limited. I've written about this is many places, the summary is something along these lines:

We are intelligent, divine energy expressing itself in dense, material form in order to grow and evolve. We are consciousness, which in turn has an ego, which is basically the sum, expressing itself, of all our former experience (good and bad in our present life, and those past). We are consciously aware of our egos; it dictates what we think, judge, see and do in our daily lives. This in a nutshell is Duality. Duality is the right to choose either this way or that way. Fight or flight. Ignore or help. Forgive or avenge. That is Free will. The means to dictate our own path, to nurture either our spiritual character, or that ego, lies in our Free will.

Sorry if I chirped a bit too loudly in the earlier post, I end up somewhat railing against a lot of this new age philosophizing, and anything at all tinged with precepts and creeds, or the corpus of doctrines, including Buddhism, that requires an element of mental gymnastics to understand. All of which contains human baggage (distortion), and is entirely unnecessary. The answers, even ultimate answers, are already there, already within us, and they're very very simple. Most of which I summarized in this post here.

It may be right, it may be wrong. Everyone is free to decide, that's the beauty of free will.

[palehorse]

Posted by Catsquotl (here)

Posted by palehorse (here)
Here are some materials from the BIA (Buddhadasa Indapanno Archives) Buddhadasa personal notes, there is great books available what was written with materials from this Archive, some of them available for free, anyway all the materials in the Archives are freely available.
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3271 (The Wheel of life)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3257 (Anapanasati Bhavana)
http://archives.bia.or.th/front-show...php?pdfid=3313 (paṭiccasamuppāda - dependent origination)

If I may add a pdf to this list?
https://www.saraniya.com/books/medit...Abhidhamma.pdf (The full Theravadan philosophy and study of the workings of the mind)

Yes Catsquotl, thanks


I would like to add one more thing for the thread in general.
In Buddhism there is more than one practice: Anapanasati Bhavana, Satipaṭṭhāna, Samprajaña, Vipassana for example, but one doesn't need to become an expert in complex academic researches in order to meditate, one can practice Anapanasati (mindfulness of breathing) but also practice Satipaṭṭhāna (observing the senses) the practices are inter connected and it lead to Vipassana (insight into the true nature of all things, one will see that indeed everything are impermanent and not self(Anatta) and this is the true heart of Buddhism).
With time of practice one will learn to name some if not all of the factors.. it is just the natural process of learning something.

As a former Christian (Roman Catholic) I am satisfied with "Buddhist practice", I do not go deep into Buddhist cosmology, philosophy or religion (this one I did due to curiosity, but I am not a follower).

[Constance]

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[greybeard]

Thanks Constance
All persuasions welcome there.
Chris

[Constance]

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[greybeard]

The Universe brings everything about.
If you think that "God" does not know what you are going to do think again.
I make plans and "God" laughs.
Meditation, with out a goal brings the peace that passes all understanding.
Spiritual practise is helpful as while enlightenment is by Divine providence --the practise readies one for this.
The ego thinks it is going to be an enlightened ego Ha Ha.
Chris

[Constance]

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[Ernie Nemeth]

Yes, Chris.

That is what I experienced the first time around. I thought, 'Finally! It's my turn!'. I expected great things. I expected a say in how it would unfold. I was outraged when I was disabused of that notion. It took over ten years to get over what I saw as rejection, when I did not get what I wanted exactly as I wanted it.

This time around, well, I come with hat in hand, a lowly student with no expectations, not even to be accepted. Now, I merely commune and pray for forgiveness.

I've put on muscles only yoga can bestow. I am almost ready for advanced study now. But I continue to supplicate myself, give thanks after every asana, and ask for guidance and wisdom. I will not be a yogi, but I might become a better me, if I can keep my ego at bay.

So far it has been manageable. I pray it remains that way.


My prayer? (done after every pose so I do not loose focus)
'Lord Jesus Christ, pray for this sinner. Hare, Hare Krishna!' and then I picture the Buddha, without words...

[Constance]

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[Catsquotl]

Posted by Constance (here)
Samsara, Karma & How To Escape
by Alisdair Forsythe


I’m going to jump right in the deep end and say it outright: the cycles don’t exist, at least not how you imagine them. It’s an illusion and always has been. There is no Samsara and no karma. That is what the Buddha knows and that is why they are unaffected. One cannot be affected by something that does not exist. What do I mean by this?


If this doesn’t ring with you, if it’s not fulfilling, then maybe ask yourself… when you imagined yourself escaping, did you really imagine being free… or did you just imagine yourself winning? Being greeted by the other Buddhas, given a medal and escorted off to a better place where there is only light and happiness? That’s not escaping anything, that’s winning the game. If so, then that is your trap. That’s not escaping, that’s just the desire to win roulette. You can get there if it’s what you really want; but my god — the fall will hurt! And in the end, you’ll be right back here where you started. Welcome home!

Posted by Constance (here)
I didn't want to turn this into a treatise on Buddhism. The topic is how to transcend Samsara and Karma in a way that is relevant to where humanity is at now in the modern world. I appreciate that people want to share so if people want to continue posting regarding Buddhism, The Enlightenment and related matters thread is the place for that. Thank you.

It appears as ludicrous to me that you start by stating stuff the Buddha supposedly knew and then disregard what he actually said about it. Then disregard over 2500 years of study by people who actually practiced what the Buddha taught and what there findings were as being insignificant and belonging in a thread which has nothing to do with the questions asked in the OP.


It makes me wonder if you are really asking a question. What can a modern human being to to escape Samsara and Karma. Or if you are teaching by showing us where our thinking has gone wrong regarding the premises made..

[Lunesoleil]

I have a solution for Karma, it is to find the position of the asteroid which bears its name code 3811, I opened a discussion in the astrology forum HERE.
I wrote several articles on Karma the asteroid on my blog ...

[Constance]

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[Constance]

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[Catsquotl]

potato potato.


I saw what you wrote to Star, but it still made me wonder..


Isn't being free from the illusion of samsara and karma exactly what the Buddha or any enlightened master is claiming to have discovered?
It's not about semantics...

Call it freedom, enlightenment, clear vision, breakthrough, katharsis, wisdom or anything that points to roughly the same result.



It's about living the experience of deep understanding and seeing through the BS yes?

Seeing and understanding what makes so called reality real and what are the ways we fool ourselves into thinking otherwise
Stating that something isn't so, does nothing for the experience of it. Some of the more modern mindfullness may help the modern human see that.
But then taking a deep dive into the workings of ones own mind, will revile so much more.. and even make some fundamental shifts in the perception of it all so that samsara and karma are no longer riddles to be solved, unseen or set aside as childish misconceptions. But as descriptions for fundamental ways the mind creates it's own prisons...






Thanks for clearing up what you wanted to discuss.