WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/...12625114587139

https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status...13356710232066

https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/statu...11547979665409

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...76896938446848

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...07522588676096

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...26573091790850

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...52366773084161

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...92298644701184

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...02215191511044

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...02218081378309

[Michel Leclerc]

Thank you Shaberon.

A few interlinear remarks of mine in blue.

Quote Posted by shaberon (here)

(...)

Zoroastrianism informed the Sassanian government and became the state religion, but this did not mean that people of other faiths were excluded from public service or persecuted under Ardashir I or his son and successor Shapur I (r. 240-270 CE). Shapur I, in fact, welcomed people of all faiths into the empire and allowed Jews and Buddhists to build temples and Christians to erect churches. Shapur I saw himself as an embodiment of the holy warrior king advancing the truth of Zoroastrianism against the forces of darkness and evil epitomized by the Roman Empire. Shapur I was almost universally successful in his engagements against Rome and became a model for his successors.

Although these were Assyrian and other Eastern Christians, over time, the Persians seem to have conflated the whole thing with the Roman State:

The religious tolerance of the Sassanian Empire was continued (...)

Not so for Mani and his faithful (see below).


(...) until the reign of Shapur II (309-379 CE) who saw Christianity as a Roman faith, which sought to subvert the truth of Zoroastrianism. Under Shapur II's reign, the Avesta (Zoroastrian sacred work) was committed to writing and Christians were persecuted throughout the empire.

Quite. But important to note is that meanwhile Constantine (reigned 306-337) had chosen Christianity as the Roman Empire’s State religion, although he injected quite some Mithraism into it.

Basically before Constantine’s choice, the competing religions in the Roman Empire had been Christianity and Mithraism (which was a kind of Western syncretistic variant of Iranian religions, being influenced by Zoroastrian elements, Zurvanism, and some gnostic sects). Constantine opted for the Christian faith, making it palatable to his soldiers who were mostly Mithraists by including those Mithraic elements. That was his choice, and not the theoretically possible inverse choice of Mithraism with Christian elements injected into it (he might have done so by turning the sacrifice of the bull in Mithraic rites (ancestor of the corridas?) into a "eucharistic" representation of Jesus’ death on the cross and by identifying Jesus with Mithra. After this selection of Christian faith as State religion, which was an "anti-Sassanian" choice, Christians could not but be persecuted in Persia for good political measure, as you say:

Religious tolerance continued to be extended to those of other faiths not associated with Rome and so Shapur II's persecutions are regarded as more of a political than religiously-motivated policy.


At basically the same time, there is the appearance of:

Mani (AD 216–274), in the Sasanian Empire.


Of his Zoroastrian system:

I am not sure I understand you here. Mani was executed on the orders of the powerful Zoroastrian high priest Kartir, only a short time after Shapur I’s death (270). So those persecutions were quite early in Sassanian times.

Mani’s was not a "Zoroastrian system" (as can be inferred from Mani’s reverence for the intervening prophets Gautama Buddha and Jesus). His was the probably most complete and internally "harmonised" version of the Gnostic religious tenets – which were almost all philosophically neoplatonist but diverged on the basis of the myths they preferred to refer to: e.g. Egyptian, Jewish, Christian, “Persian" (Zoroastrian, Zurvanist etc.) (The "demonic" interpretation of Gnosticism fashionable in New Age circles is a bizarre distortion of the textual reality.) Mani was persecuted because he was essentially a Gnostic, and not a Zoroastrian. His universal religion was considered pagan by the Zoroastrianists, and suspect because fashionable in the Roman sphere.

(...)

[Mani’s religion] thrived between the third and seventh centuries, and at its height was one of the most widespread religions in the world. Manichaean churches and scriptures existed as far east as China and as far west as the Roman Empire. It was briefly the main rival to Christianity before the spread of Islam in the competition to replace classical paganism. Beginning with the pagan emperor Diocletian, Manichaeism was persecuted by the Roman state and was eventually stamped out in the Roman Empire.

(...)

Well.. It was certainly persecuted by Diocletian (who’s reign ended in 305), along with Christianity. But then both faiths became quite popular or fashionable again during the entire 4th century. So much so that the "Church father par excellence" Augustine was a disciple of Mani up to his early 30s and then, not quite "in tempore non suspecto" switched to Christianity at the end of the 4th century. (Why he did so, and why in a way Roman civilisation switched to Christianity is a topic for hundreds if not thousands of books. I may single out one element: of the "new" religions meant as a synthesis, or a syncretism, of Graeco-Italic "philosophical" henotheism/monotheism hovering over quite a company of mostly symbolic gods and goddesses, and “Eastern” mystery religions, Christianity was the earliest, and best known in the Roman Empire: it had been fashioned by Paul in the first century A.D., and quite convincingly: Mani’s synthesis may have been as brilliant, but it came two centuries later. Maybe the Christian faith spoke more to the soul, and Mani’s faith to the mind or the spirit. Augustine at least was mostly intellectually fascinated by Manichaeism, whereas the Jewish prophets spoke to his heart – or, as Freud would contend, to his subconscious desires.)

It seems that the extreme view of Ahriman is what either (a) became the vernacular Satan which is not quite the same as what we have discussed, or (b) simply itself became the object of veneration, by continued conflation of the Creator or Demiurge and tribalistic Yahweh. In other words a materialistic or materialized god for subjected empires, which obscures or is a barrier to the Platonic teachings on divinity.


The West is hugely informed by Aristotle and this Persian influence.

Could you elaborate on your last two paragraphs? – I am not sure I understand you well.

[Michel Leclerc]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/sta...02346808930308

Voilà !

...however, I am not so enthusiastic about where "people stand" on this one. The whole timing of Nato’s provocation last winter seems to point at a very astute strategy to cut the "vaccine conspiracy realist" front in two. Cauldroning them, so to speak.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/...34517011779584

https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/...34001531813888

https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/...33488950022146

https://twitter.com/spriteer_774400/...33880853303300

[Michel Leclerc]

Thank you Ravenlocke. The comment clarifies a lot. How right you are not to listen to the “music”. Besides, I was dumb enough to mistake the Ukrainian tank for a Russian tank to start with. Maybe I should just stick to the summarising messages. As those video “snapshots” come I do watch them. Is that wise? I realise that in part it is a way of detoxing myself from the disgusting propaganda the "West" is subjecting us to. Like a form of persuading myself: yes, it exists, yes, it is the truth. On the other hand, there is also something of the intensity of life that war is: not like the Hitlerites would have had it, but maybe Hemingway in Republican Spain... or Péguy, or Jünger about the First WW. But I am basically more on the side of the life-loving poet like Wilfred Owen (vide Britten’s War Requiem) and would stop the slaughter.. Hoping that the Ukrainian army units surrender as soon as they can. There was this more than one hour long conversation between a Russian soldier and a Ukrainian captive soldier a few days back, where the Russian soldier said to the journalist "well, I would sure hope to drink a beer with him one day when the war is over" or something of the kind. That is is really comforting.

(Thank you for your appreciation for Shaberon’s and my sounding the historical and mythical echo chambers. It is hopefully useful, as providing a background to it all.)

[kfm27917]

NATO Officers in Azovstol Murdered & Mutilated by Azov to Spare Western Governments Embarrassment?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/0...id-nato-order/

[kfm27917]

Has Russia Already Won? Is it “Game Over” for the Rockefeller Empire?

https://healthimpactnews.com/2022/ha...feller-empire/

must read: good behind the scene glimpse into high global politics

[Mashika]

Suddenly Olodymyr Elensky is very open about how much Ukrainia loses are and how hard they are hit, this is no demostration of weakness or acceptance of reality, this is a strategy to cause people to send more support and of course in the form of money or guns (which are converted into money)

In other words, Elenksy has figured out that the battle is lost, but that through pity from the world he can get a lot more money to siphon away into other countries before he makes his "great escape". He could not care less about the Ukrainian people or the army, he will send anyone he needs to send to their deaths if that means he can get another dollar out of them, and this is now the standard way of managing this 'war' (which is a ridiculous meat grinder in reality)

Soldiers have already started to realize this and that's whyt hey are surrendering or in some cases even switching sides to the Donbass "rebel" side (it sounds like something from Star Wars... "The Rebel Alliance", "The Separatist Republics" or such lol)

In the end, what has happened is not that those idiots in Kiev want to win, but they figured out how to win (money) from the idiotic sacrifice NATO lead them into, so they are now playing the same meant grinding game, that's about it

If you have not seen the "Juan Sinmiedo/Fearless John/Ukraine exposed" Telegram channel you should check it out, lots and lots of evidence now posted continually from actual real people from Ukraine living in the Donbass region, who declare and testify what the Ukrainian army did to them, it's getting ridiculous now, the evidence will be overwelming soon enough.

There are also testimonies of Ukrainian soldiers about what they were forced to do or what the top level did to them, this won't be hidden from the world

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses

[Mashika]

Also check this very odd thing

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/4335


See that gun? How did that made it to the front line? If the people at Azovstal were some of the best, how come someone carried that old beaten up rifle? That looks like one of those 40 year old rifles you use to train cadets on how to run with a heavy backpack and that constantly gets thrown into the ground and gets all beaten up over the years.

That's not a rifle you take to battle at all, unless you don't have anything better? So how could someone carry that into battle to the frontline? Weren't the US and allies + Ukraine saying that the Ukraine army was up to NATO standards and better equipment than most countries in Europe all that stuff? Really?

[Ewan]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
Thank you Shaberon.

Dear Michael and Shaberon,

I really appreciate reading your ongoing discussion but find it a little jarring to go from a warfare post to religious history. I would be very interested to read that elsewhere, like its own thread perhaps?



Apologies Bill if I've stepped on your toes in your own living room.

[shaberon]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
I didn’t notice the music because I watch without sound when there aren’t speakers in the video. Other than that I don’t know why the sound has to be so ominous other than to emphasize that the evil deed doesn’t go unnoticed and unpunished?

I too also usually do not know what the sound reel might be. It could be someone talking and I have no idea. It is a "move" on my part to actually listen to anything. I only occasionally listen to short pieces of interviews.


To make up with an unusually relaxing melody, Kitaro "Kaiso" from first album:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tK6utFjex1I

[shaberon]

Posted by Ewan (here)
I really appreciate reading your ongoing discussion but find it a little jarring to go from a warfare post to religious history. I would be very interested to read that elsewhere, like its own thread perhaps?

I would tend to say that, except it is massively part and parcel of what is happening.

Russia is in an existential fight against the Collective West, and, many would say about the same, that we as civilians are just about in an existential fight versus the leadership of the Collective West.


There is a mainly Orthodox country with a few "allies", and then there are brigades using Nazi symbols, in an area where Jews have been exterminated for political manipulation many times since the 1600s. And so the religious embroilments are very meaningful to the people themselves. Russia uses this identity and the historicity of it to frame the narrative of what probably 70% of the world will listen to.

This is played out in the running example that prisoners were surprised not to get beaten, which makes it favorable for more surrenders to happen. That is a pretty serious true/false type of event based on exactly this cultural divide.



There is an article today on Azov's history, where they claim to have three dozen nationalities, but not one from China or Nigeria. The author took the title Laboratory of Nazism from such a person who will explain us how it works:


Another volunteer, Joachim Fürholm from Norway, calls himself a "national socialist revolutionary" and "admires" what [2011 far-right Norway bomber Anders] Breivik did. In an interview with the Nazi radio Radio Wehrwolf, found by Bellingcat (an organisation recognised as a foreign agent in Russia), Fürholm considers Azov to be a "laboratory of fascism".

“I found myself leading a small group of volunteers from all over the West: the aim was to get some combat experience and send some of the guys back to pass on skills and knowledge. In a way, it is a fascist laboratory. The conditions there are optimal", he explained.



In their own words, there is a narrowly-definable slice of the world, homegrowing something that would like to be able to "get in and get out" of Ukrainian conflict. But this kind of Eugenics comes from Ivy League and Oxbridge. They may have found a way to wash their hands and make it appear otherwise. And so if there is some house cleaning in order to "de-nazify" the Homelands, I am not sure what that would mean for us? But I think it may well be a spiritual force.

[shaberon]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
Christianity was the earliest, and best known in the Roman Empire: it had been fashioned by Paul in the first century A.D., and quite convincingly: Mani’s synthesis may have been as brilliant, but it came two centuries later. Maybe the Christian faith spoke more to the soul, and Mani’s faith to the mind or the spirit. Augustine at least was mostly intellectually fascinated by Manichaeism, whereas the Jewish prophets spoke to his heart – or, as Freud would contend, to his subconscious desires.)

This Pauline Christianity was in the Byzantine, you can't call it Empire, but, sphere, which extended in a ring around the Black Sea as well. Rome was not. And we think it may have been not exactly in communion, but doing its own thing, virtually from the time there was a church with property there. It may not have "blown up" until 1054 but may have already had differences.


Concerning Aristotle and Persia as the West:


Pythagoras and Plato made a system based in spiritual practices, compared to which, Aristotle over-wrote it with a lot of his own logic and was not really a spiritual person. This causes separation from Truth according to Raghavan Iyer:


It is common to make a sharp separation between knowledge and being, truth and reality, between what we affirm to be true or false and what exists or is non-existent. This distinction, which we have inherited from the Greeks, is valuable in itself and is fundamental to modern thought. On the other hand, in classical Indian tradition as in pre-Socratic thought echoed in Plato, truth and reality are often used as interchangeable terms and we are taught that there is a higher level of awareness and apprehension beyond the sensory field in which our knowing and what is known are united and even transcended in a sense of immediate vision and absorption in what is seen.

This identification of truth and reality was reaffirmed by Gandhi in his insistence that truth is that which is and error that which is not. Most of what we normally call knowledge has clearly nothing to do with truth as Gandhi understood it, and we are right to distinguish it from being. The modern man is neither willing nor able to grasp reality; he has been trained to develop and use his reason and his feeling in a manner that can give partial formulations of the truth or passing sensations of particular sense-objects. Once we accept the notion that man can be separated and detached from nature, human knowledge and sensation cannot attain to an intuitive insight into the Tattwas, the essences of things. If, however, we start with the ancient axiom that man is the microcosm of the macrocosm, then we can see that the extent of truth that is available to any man is connected with the plane of reality on which he functions. Hence the importance of H.P. Blavatsky's advocacy of the Platonic standpoint which was abandoned by Aristotle, who was no Initiate, and who has had such a dominant influence upon subsequent thinking in the West.


Kabalists say it:

It is also in this milieu that a thinker like Abravanel’s illustrious son Judah,
better known in humanist circles as Leone Ebreo, was able to boldly
make the following assertion regarding Plato, in allusion to Kabbalah as
ancient wisdom:

Plato, because he had greater notions of this ancient wisdom than Aristotle, followed it. Aristotle, who penetrated less deeply into abstract things, and unlike Plato did not have the testimony of our ancient theologians, denied that hidden territory, which he could not see . . .


Farrell and Tarpley equate the Venetian Oligarchy as the "Cult of Aristotle".

That is Materialistic Dead Souls Science.




Persia in terms of statecraft, "invented" divide and rule, which became mixed with religious differences later. The history article states on its own that this "system" grew up to be the U. S. Government.

In terms of scripture, the extreme Ahriman that was present and also believed in by Mani, is not the Hebrew ha satan.

What matured out of the "scripture making" process involves redactions and conflations like that, generally making one view the material Creator as almighty or supreme being, whereas it should have more to do with a spiritual or divine realm, such as the Elohim. So far I have been able to find something at least close to this in Platonism and Orthodox Hesychasm.


That is how more or less I would say the Western side is defined or split, which becomes detectable in ever-increasing ways through today. Aristotle and Persian influences overwhelmed what otherwise might have come from Pythagoras, Alexandria, the Druids, etc.

[pounamuknight]

Speaking of nazis...

Nazi tuff talks Kadyrov

Nazi regret

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Mashika (here)
Also check this very odd thing

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/4335

See that gun? How did that made it to the front line? If the people at Azovstal were some of the best, how come someone carried that old beaten up rifle? That looks like one of those 40 year old rifles you use to train cadets on how to run with a heavy backpack and that constantly gets thrown into the ground and gets all beaten up over the years.

That's not a rifle you take to battle at all, unless you don't have anything better? So how could someone carry that into battle to the frontline? Weren't the US and allies + Ukraine saying that the Ukraine army was up to NATO standards and better equipment than most countries in Europe all that stuff? Really?

Thanks, and that's interesting. Yes, probably not a lightweight precision weapon any more! And the ammunition it needs would be all different.

My guess is that it's a keepsake [Russian = подарок на память], something he had with him for "sentimental" value. It might have belonged to his grandfather, maybe, 80 years earlier.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by kfm27917 (here)
NATO Officers in Azovstol Murdered & Mutilated by Azov to Spare Western Governments Embarrassment?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/0...id-nato-order/

Probably not! (I don't trust Veterans Today as a source of anything at all.)

[Ravenlocke]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
Thank you Ravenlocke. The comment clarifies a lot. How right you are not to listen to the “music”. Besides, I was dumb enough to mistake the Ukrainian tank for a Russian tank to start with. Maybe I should just stick to the summarising messages. As those video “snapshots” come I do watch them. Is that wise? I realise that in part it is a way of detoxing myself from the disgusting propaganda the "West" is subjecting us to. Like a form of persuading myself: yes, it exists, yes, it is the truth. On the other hand, there is also something of the intensity of life that war is: not like the Hitlerites would have had it, but maybe Hemingway in Republican Spain... or Péguy, or Jünger about the First WW. But I am basically more on the side of the life-loving poet like Wilfred Owen (vide Britten’s War Requiem) and would stop the slaughter.. Hoping that the Ukrainian army units surrender as soon as they can. There was this more than one hour long conversation between a Russian soldier and a Ukrainian captive soldier a few days back, where the Russian soldier said to the journalist "well, I would sure hope to drink a beer with him one day when the war is over" or something of the kind. That is is really comforting.

(Thank you for your appreciation for Shaberon’s and my sounding the historical and mythical echo chambers. It is hopefully useful, as providing a background to it all.)

I agree with you wholeheartedly about being on the side of life and everyday I hope to see this war end and no more killing and dying and suffering but it is not happening yet since the “overseers” do not want it so.
And another thing this war came just in time to overshadow the covid protesters, doctors speaking out the truth about the dangers of the vaccines especially the american truckers who had reached Washington DC. With the price of gas rising so much and still going up It makes it very expensive for truckers to travel as well as anyone else right now, shame but .....
Still I keep hoping for a positive turning point and for good times for everyone around the world, maybe some day. I can only hope.
Ravenlocke

[kfm27917]

http://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-...a-solar-storm/

Sitrep Operation Z: ‘The Grind’ is mainly done for now – Donbas Arc lights up like a solar storm
6269 ViewsMay 24, 2022 16 Comments
For the Saker Blog by Saker Staff

This is an open thread on the entire Donbas Arc where the ‘grind’ is now paying off and the Russians are running and counting coup, working like a well-orchestrated orchestra. (Unforgivable hyperbole in writing, but it is quite a thing to watch!).

Over to the commentators to give us the details.

Keep eyes on for confirmation: UNCONFIRMED but oh boy this would be juicy if confirmed. How about those Poles? From Intel Slava:

Against the background of information about the arrival of units in Pavlograd from the territory of Poland, a missile attack was launched on a military facility in the city.

Which object was hit is still unknown. It is likely that the target was precisely the place of concentration of those same armed groups that arrived from Poland.

Pavlograd is the most important transport hub for supplying the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donbass.

Roads run from it to Pokrovsk, Kurakhovo and Marinka, as well as towards the Kramatorsk-Slavic agglomeration. The railway goes towards Avdiivka.

For now, Readovka’s report and map.

Today from Avdiivka to Estuary Russian Armed Forces and allied forces storm Estuary. Most of the city has been liberated and serious military operations are underway. The entire Donbass arc is in motion. Ukrainian sources report the withdrawal of troops from Severodonetsk. The main supply routes are under the fire control of the Allied Artillery.

Kharkiv Front. Today, fighting continued in the area of Liptsov, Ternovoye and Rubezhnoye.

Izumo-Luhansk front. In the morning, it was reported that a bridge across the Lugan River was blown up near Svitlodar, then information appeared about the breakthrough of the Allied forces in this direction. Later it became known about the beginning of the assault on Krasny Liman, and about the capture of almost half of the city by the Allied forces.

Russian aviation and artillery are also working in the area of Soledar and Bakhmut (Artemivsk). From the Popasnyansky front, they reported the end of the battles for Toshkovka (in favor of the Allied forces) and successes in the Zolotoe area. The Russian Armed Forces and allied forces storm Zolotoe Positions are occupied at the entrance to the city The 6th Regiment of the People’s Militia of the LPR occupied two streets in Kamyshevakh. Access to the borders of the LPR and DPR from Troitsky was also made.

This morning, the Russian Aerospace Forces launched a missile attack on the railway infrastructure in Korosten, Zhytomyr region. Powerful explosions thundered in Kharkiv and Pavlograd-military facilities were destroyed.

Repulsed provocations of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on our territories. A Ukrainian drone was shot down in the Rostov region. Air defense systems were destroyed APU made an unsuccessful attempt of provocation in the Kursk regionAir defense systems destroyed all air targets in the Kursk region. Anti-aircraft missiles flew into the sky over the Belgorod region in the evening.