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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Isserley (here)
    I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine...

    Zionist occupation and its feeder?


    Quote Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist.

    Sorry. It is actually a centuries-old multi-cultural dialogue, of which Israel and the West are not part of.

    I suppose the most accurate term would be Silk Road. Even places that were not traditionally part of it, like west African countries, at least admire Russia for being the one to stand up and shout what they are all thinking. Again this summarizes ca. 85% of the earth's population of humans. Most of us would like a de-militarized, de-Nazified Ukraine, because we understand that most folks just want to be able to work and participate in normal affairs.

    But, starting with that, eh, "philosophy" coming from Alexander the Great and military conquest of the Silk Road, we can be pretty sure there are still differences of opinion about this.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Isserley (here)
    Quote Posted by loungelizard (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Here's something to ponder about

    See this ship? Looks familiar?


    That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

    Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

    Ukraine can't build anything

    They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

    Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

    They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

    Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

    Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

    It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

    They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"
    Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people …


    They live out of hand outs
    they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
    Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
    they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
    no production of any kind other than grains,
    they can't build any new tech,
    they do nothing but expect handouts
    they have no clue how to progress on their own
    a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
    It's just that they just can't build anything,
    they went into full mediocre/lame mode
    They don't ask nicely,
    they demand handouts because they think they deserve them


    You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
    I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Ukraine can't build anything
    You must know that statement isn’t true.

    A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
    The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
    There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?
    Space/aerospace industries?
    There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
    Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
    Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
    Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
    Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
    Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
    Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
    Promin https://prominaerospace.com

    No shipbuilding?
    Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
    Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
    https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
    According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
    Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
    There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
    https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

    Steel?
    There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
    and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

    Can't build new tech or do research?
    The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
    There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

    Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


    PS
    Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
    Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.
    I agree with lounguelizard.
    I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine and I know quite a few "Ukros" ( I dont like that term!). It is incorrect to say that Ukrainians are incompetent because I know very well how capable they are. It is also rude because the majority of people are not to blame for what is happening. It's the fault of governments, freemasons, secret societies, satanists, psychopaths ... I also don't like spitting on westerners in "developed countries" and I emphasize once again that the majority people of western countries are not the same as the vocal minority LGBTQWTF+ / woke / BLM, or their demented leaders.
    Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist.
    Lol, or perhaps you have been conditioned to feel wrong about anything that puts Ukraine into a bad light? And it bothers you internally even if you try to not feel that way

    Maybe if you went to look more into this, you would find that yes, "The Ukros" are vicious beasts with no morals or ethics, capable of killing their own people at any time if needed, or if they can get a personal win out of it

    I never said that i talk about the entire Ukrainan population, that's your programming talking to you. I have been very clear tons and tons of times explaining i talk about the people in control, the top levels and governments, not the general population. If you truly had read my posts you would know that

    And i was going to explain why the points made above are misleading and incorrect, some in purpose and some because of lack of research (don't just go pick up whatever you find on the next first and use it as proof just because it tells you what you want to hear, specially if the source if a pro Ukrainian site or organization)

    So anyways, i was going to explain that but honestly what a bore this is, i know you won't care to read or understand anything said and will just skip and look away. I'm not assuming anything because i can clearly see you have done that already in the past, if like you said, you have been reading this thread and somehow did not find all the evidence about the war crimes and other crimes committed by Ukraine at least a bit bothersome

    If you don't have more clarity of mind, then you'll continue to be a play thing and a tool for the advancement of the UkroNazi's agenda

    First:
    There's a difference between having a factory production line that builds products designed by a foreign company, in which you have zero control over the design and specifications and just get used as a sweatshop because of cheap labor and taxes and corruption that allows to get most of that for free, and a real innovative industry that produces things no one else does and can self-substain or advance without having to license or sell itself to others for cheap

    Without the outsourcing and cheap labor/little taxes offer, there's nothing going on in Ukraine, nothing new is built or designed by and for Ukrainians ,they just get orders from some foreign company and follow them to specs, and that's it

    And second:
    If you go do some actual research, you'll find that most of the land, and these companies, are owned by foreigners who got them for very cheap, and that the 'owner' in Ukraine is basically just a name lender to simplify the operations and protect the company. All the money that is supposed to enter Ukraine through those industries, is already money that goes into the pockets of foreigners

    Check the farming land owners, the Ukrainians in control of the regions forced the original farm owners to sell for ridiculous cheap prices or face bankrupcy, then they sold the land to foreigners and pocketed the money. Now when you see that Ukraine is selling thousands of tons of grain of this or that kind, that money that is displayed as stats is only going through Ukraine because that's how they skip on paying taxes due to corruption, then it goes into the safe heaven account of westerners from the US/UK/EU and never benefits the Ukrainian population.

    It is a scam, it is draining Ukraine out of its resources and moving the money to the western hidden owners

    But of course this is not expressed on those misleading articles/stats. And whoever dares to speak up about it may die of suicide or find themselves investigated because of 'pro-russian' views, then killed anyway while 'resisting arrest'

    For someone who likes street level Ukrainians, you sure help with their destruction by looking away to the reality of their country

    The only thing i got from your post and the one quoted is that you guys have no clue about what' truly goes on in Ukraine, or why, or who is behind it, and just think that somehow this is a two sided thing in which either you are pro-russian or pro-ukrainian. And that's the simplified childish view that is very useful to lead the masses in whichever way they may be useful

    Tomorrow you may be told that Ukraine should not be supported, once it is not useful anymore to the western 'partners', then everyone will condemn the entire country without any attempt at reasoning

    Open your eyes, or not, it's up to you
    Or maybe youve been conditioned to feel otherwise?
    I do understand that this war is NATO driven and that Ukraine is country full of problems as well as nazi groups which are capable of anything. There are also such groups here in Croatia and you would probably find them in most countries. Its horrible.
    People are generally very easily susceptible to programming and manipulation, so I understandably do not deny that this is a reality. Setting up the story as if Russia is pure perfection bothers me. It's a joke. I miss a critical opinion here and for the other side. There is a "great leader" in power for life with aspirations to restore the Soviet Union and with very good communication skills... hmmm

    I also lack meaningful answer to the following Post frim mr Lizard.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Yes, stop all Nazis, bravo, but in a snow ridden country, one cannot help but speak a little supportively of snow movers, (forgivably).

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Isserley (here)
    Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Masha's thinking.
    Many thanks, and I'd just like to respond to this, together with one or two other connected and relevant comments.



    Personally, while I know Masha very well and have the highest respect for her (and her many direct experiences and consequent direct knowledge), the bulk of the formation of my understanding of the geopolitical realities has come from these sources:

    Websites with 24/7 updates:
    YouTube channels:
    I drew up that only-partial list (and posted it here for Brian/Fellow Aspirant), but he responded that [my paraphrase] he didn't think they reflected his worldview.

    He's correct, of course, because his worldview is handed to him ready-made, like a microwaved TV dinner, from sources such as CBC and CNN. It is deeply flawed, false and manipulated.

    But I have to also say something about the way the war is being presented in some other places, notably quite a large number of pro-Russia Telegram channels. There are many daily posts of real-time video footage taken from camera drones, showing unfortunate Ukrainian soldiers being killed right there onscreen.

    You can't see who they are, and we'll never know their names. But the posted videos are often accompanied by rock music and a clever little comment about "minus one Nazi", or some such.

    I can't properly express how distasteful that kind of thing is. These are human beings, maybe suffering terribly, and for all we know they may pretty much have been conscripts who were very afraid, totally didn't want to be there at all, and if they believed in any cause of any kind, they'd had their views formed for them by the same forces that formed Fellow Aspirant's worldview for him.

    Some Ukrainian soldiers are sadistic, psychopathic Nazis and deserve to be shot on sight with or without trial. I'll say that clearly and without apology. But not everyone in Ukraine is like that. Of course not.

    And I know that Masha knows this too. She's seen war and been in war, and she has shared some things with me privately that would make a grown man weep.

    There's tragedy all around, and we should never forget this.



    I support the Russians in everything they're doing strategically, and I understand the important reasons why. But it's not about picking a side and then cheering for your football team.

    We're seeing some very critical events unfold almost daily before our eyes, and if the US, the UK, the EU and NATO all crumble — as they may very well do, but if so the US will be the last to fall — in my strong informed opinion the world will largely be a better place for that.

    Putin has recently made a number of very long, detailed and articulate speeches, which I have followed closely, and I agree with almost everything that he points out. I can't say that for a single part of any single speech from any single American or European politician. Not one. Just nothing and no-one, no-one at all.

    The western world is politically, ethically and morally bankrupt. I think we're seeing it being methodically taken down, exactly as in the inevitable end of any decadent, arrogant and self-entitled empire. There's nothing anyone can do about it, and in a couple of decades (maybe just one, or even less) the world will look and feel very different.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th November 2022 at 20:20.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...But the posted videos are often accompanied by rock music and a clever little comment about "minus one Nazi", or some such.
    I can't properly express how distasteful that kind of thing is. These are human beings, maybe suffering terribly, and for all we know they may pretty much have been conscripts who were very afraid, totally didn't want to be there at all...
    Yes, thank you. This is what is missing on this thread.
    It is important that such comments and criticisms are spoken out loud, otherwise it may appear as if we agree with these actions.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    We're seeing some very critical events unfold almost daily before our eyes, and if the US, the UK, the EU and NATO all crumble — as they may very well do, but if so the US will be the last to fall — in my strong informed opinion the world will largely be a better place for that.
    I am still not sure what this means. Who will crumble? The cabal/PTB or regular people? Im afraid that we both know the answer and is not good - so how will this result in a better world is beyond me.
    The western leaders seam pretty happy with way the things are going with this war and energy crisis or am I missing something?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Putin has recently made a number of very long, detailed and articulate speeches, which I have followed closely, and I agree with almost everything that he points out. I can't say that for a single part of any single speech from any single American or European politician. Not one. Just nothing and no-one, no-one at all.
    Yeah.. I don't trust politicians either. This includes Putin. I'm still waiting for him to walk the walk.
    Similar phenomenon is now happening with Elon Musk..
    imo Putin= typical virtue-signalling.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The western world is politically, ethically and morally bankrupt. I think we're seeing it being methodically taken down, exactly as in the inevitable end of any decadent, arrogant and self-entitled empire. There's nothing anyone can do about it, and in a couple of decades (maybe just one, or even less) the world will look and feel very different.
    Again - who is beeing taken down? I have not seen a single arrest of those responsible for the war, covid and vaccine scam, crisis, pedo rings.. The only people who may suffer or will suffer are the common people.

    But anyway I am glad we had this chat.. and in a couple of decades I hope u are right..
    Last edited by Isserley; 24th November 2022 at 21:17.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia


    Ukrainian stronghold of Marinka falls: Russians enter city center - Fierce street fighting - Shock defeat for Kyiv in Donbass
    (maps)

    Bombing Su-25 - Watch video
    23/11/2022 - 22:47
    in Main topics , Ukraine
    0
    Moscow gives Donbas a free shot with the 20th Army: Slavyansk is under Russian grip - The Russians are in the outskirts of Lisichansk!


    Important victory for the Russians in Donbass as after capturing Pavlovka they entered the city center in the strategic Marinka (or Maryinka). The Russians managed to crush the Ukrainian defenses after three months of heavy fighting.

    Russians control 2/3 of the city with Ukrainian forces retreating towards Novomykhaylivka which will be the next target for Russian forces.

    This is a serious development that will affect the fighting in Donbass and the combativeness of the Ukrainian Army as Maryinka is a key point in the south of the fortified defense line of the armed forces of Ukraine.

    The city is almost completely destroyed. The Ukrainians had created a whole system of branches and trenches.

    For example, the length of one of the trenches is about 1.5 kilometers, which has numerous branches, connecting 20 residential zones into a single defensive line.

    The 100th Brigade of the Donetsk People's Militia and the 107th Battalion are operating in the area.

    The Ukrainian army retreats from Marinka
    According to Russian media, satellites are recording the retreat of Ukrainian troops from Marinka.

    They specifically mention:

    "After the Russian army entered Maryinka, unusual activity of the Armed Forces of Ukraine began to be recorded on the territory of this settlement. Initially, the information said that it was a reconstruction, however, satellite images show that the Ukrainian army began to retreat from the city.

    At this time, an active movement of military equipment of the Ukrainian ED is recorded.

    Experts attribute the retreat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to the fact that the Ukrainian army, due to a lack of weapons, is unable to fight in urban conditions, and, possibly, the withdrawal of troops is due to efforts to preserve equipment and personnel.


    continue:

    https://warnews247-gr.translate.goog..._x_tr_pto=wapp

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Ukrainian air defense launched a US-made AIM-120C missile from one of #Ukraine's new Norwegian-made NASAMS air-defense systems. It missed the target and crashed into a residential building in #Kiev
    Many residents dead.

    https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/...23332107386880

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Isserley (here)

    (...)

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Putin has recently made a number of very long, detailed and articulate speeches, which I have followed closely, and I agree with almost everything that he points out. I can't say that for a single part of any single speech from any single American or European politician. Not one. Just nothing and no-one, no-one at all.
    Yeah.. I don't trust politicians either. This includes Putin. I'm still waiting for him to walk the walk.
    Similar phenomenon is now happening with Elon Musk..
    imo Putin= typical virtue-signalling.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The western world is politically, ethically and morally bankrupt. I think we're seeing it being methodically taken down, exactly as in the inevitable end of any decadent, arrogant and self-entitled empire. There's nothing anyone can do about it, and in a couple of decades (maybe just one, or even less) the world will look and feel very different.
    Again - who is beeing taken down? I have not seen a single arrest of those responsible for the war, covid and vaccine scam, crisis, pedo rings.. The only people who may suffer or will suffer are the common people.

    But anyway I am glad we had this chat.. and in a couple of decades I hope u are right..
    Isserley, thank you for your postings. I have myself praised Vladimir Putin’s speeches repeatedly and repeatedly expressed my disgust for the “Western” imperial stance and value systems, so I feel slightly motivated to intervene in this little “chat” you claim to be having with Bill Ryan.

    Your description about Putin as "virtue-signalling" comes across to me as flippant. What is the problem with all those high-school and college or secondary school and university graduates? Can’t they read any more? On a general note: no they can’t, as dozens of studies have shown. In your case, no, you don’t seem to be able to read. Have you compared Vladimir Putin’s speeches with Olaf Scholtz’s, with Joe Biden’s, with Boris Johnson’s, with Emanuel Macron’s? I think you haven’t, because you would be confronted with glaring differences in logical coherence and ethical consistence. Vladimir Putin uses language the way it should be used: with a concern for rationality and transparency, and for communicative "engageability" and sincerity. In the others’ speeches there are non-sequiturs and nonsense and brutality and emotional coldness.

    Your standard rejection of politicians is too easy (apart from having a ring of "let us have a Duce/Führer/Conducator/vozhd to lead us”): you live in a "democracy", I suppose? Then you are responsible for your country’s leaders. So you can’t just hide behind "they are all garbage", you need to be co-responsible in replacing them – and more than that (given that all voting systems in the West are now being sabotaged), in revolutionising the process of "democracy" itself.

    As I have written in another post, I believe that "democracy" is the first stage of faschism. It is so because it does not solve the problem of guaranteeing the quality of the voters and as a consequence of the people elected. It is far more pertinent to use the terms "tyranny" as against "open society" and/or "free society". The West is a collection of "democracies", and as such, of tyrannies. I do not know in which country you were born or live, but when I assume it is a country belonging to the "West", the following remarks concern you directly. Haven’t you noticed that the whole process of representative democracy in your country is a fraud? Is it not clear to you that your country is in essence a tyranny – internally, towards its own citizens? (As belonging to the West, it is also part of the Western imperial power projection and of the imperialist agenda towards other countries.) But the key point is this: we cannot at the same time stand by as our own "democratic" societies show their real face in becoming tyrannies and criticise other societies for not being "democratic". As the fact of being a "democracy" is itself (a major) part of the problem (and is also being recognised a such by the world minus the West) it is logical that you (and all citizens of the West who have not developed some form of "inner resistance" associated with some form of "inner emigration") will pride themselves on their countries as "democracies" (actually meaning tyrannies) and will reserve the concept of "tyranny" for “enemies”.

    So here is the choice: what do you prefer: to live in a country that claims not to be a tyranny while being one for all to see and is led by an irresponsible and corrupt "politician", or to live in a country that does not call itself a "democracy"-that-is-a-tyranny and may in many respects not be "open" and "free" (but does not claim to be so) that is led by a "politician" who is articulate, responsible, empathic and has a clear understanding of logical coherence of policies and of how means need to be used responsibly with respect to multiple objectives, both politically strategic and with respect to human free will, fairness and ethical standards?

    Even if Russia and Vladimir Putin are “not yet there” with respect to these last expectancies, the countries of the West – I fear – have a far longer way to go. Back first, and then maybe they can get onto the good track.
    Last edited by Michel Leclerc; 25th November 2022 at 12:59.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    The West is a collection of "democracies", and as such, of tyrannies.


    As expressed from University of Jerusalem, J. L. Talmon's 1952 book The Origins of Totalitarian Democracy addresses this, saying:

    ...in which the world crisis of to-day consists.


    Hadn't two wars, or "The Great War", or another Thirty Years' War just been fought to fix everything?


    Also called "messianic democracy", his ideas were not new, and carried forward by W. Engdahl and C. Bolin.



    He describes:


    ... a system of government in which lawfully elected representatives maintain the integrity of a nation state whose citizens, while granted the right to vote, have little or no participation in the decision-making process of the government.

    It retains full power of expropriation and full power of imposition, i.e., the right of control over everything and everyone. Maintenance of such power, in the absence of full support of the citizenry, requires the forceful suppression of any dissenting element except what the government purposely permits or organizes.



    He distinguishes "liberal democracy" as being less forceful/coercive, while fascist leaders often have popular support as if elected and approved. So you are just getting slightly different flavors of the same thing.

    I am not sure that he takes into account the United States was formed to prevent democracy. But later we find significant legal changes, and, a sort of "coalition of international corporatism" viz. Pilgrims' Society, and the U. S. losing its founding principles in the early 1900s.


    Such "corporatism" or Capitalism is indeed crumbling, as was told to Davos, 2019.

    I am not well-versed enough to satisfactorily explain all the differences in Russian and Chinese systems, other than they are not this, not Capitalism in the right use of the word.

    In the early U. S., there were corporations, limited to a twenty-year charter, and routinely closed for corruption. They were just for large public projects such as bridges and canals. But then we see around 1870, corporations stole the term "person" (from the 14th Amendment), which was used to protect a freed slave, one time. The idea that "a person is property" was turned into "property is a person".


    That was a legal opinion, a judge's precedent, which spread like wildfire, because corporations employ lawyers who are skilled at such things, and most citizens don't yet know it happened.

    Looking at the FTX guy, it continues to be true that corporatists give flowery speeches as mere window-dressing, while acting in powerful ways with utter contempt for humanity. Nothing new about him! Same as the old oilmen and industrialists. Ukraine is not just another Capitalists' war, it is so important it is like the spine of their system, which was already "dead" before this body of it was attacked.

    This system is in a condition like a fatal wound to the femoral artery, and, instead of checking in for treatment, it marches around proudly, bleeding out.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/statu...20268949860352
    “My weary heart goes wandering along the path it knew
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/apocalypse0s/sta...88854538727424

    “My weary heart goes wandering along the path it knew
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://www.rt.com/russia/566935-they-robbed-ukraine/

    Bye, bye Kiev, hello Cote D'Azur: As Westerners send aid, here's how Ukraine's corrupt elites are profiting from the conflict

    Since the beginning of Russia's military offensive in Ukraine, the United States, the European Union – and their allies – have provided Kiev with $126 billion worth of aid, a number almost equal to the country's entire GDP. Moreover, millions of Ukrainians have found refuge in the EU where they were given housing, food, work permits, and emotional support. The scope is huge, even by western standards. Considering that the bloc has been funding Kiev while coping with an economic and energy crisis of its own, the assistance is perhaps especially notable.

    Kiev bases its endless funding requests on the collapse of its economy, due to the war, and its need to “resist Russian aggression.” But is the aid reaching its intended destination?

    Russia’s former southern capital renounces its past: How Ukraine is destroying its heritage
    Russia’s former southern capital renounces its past: How Ukraine is destroying its heritage
    The Monaco Battalion

    While Ukraine has undergone a general mobilization affecting all men under the age of 60, many former and current high-ranking officials, politicians, businessmen, and oligarchs have moved to safety abroad - mainly to the EU.

    The mass flight of Ukrainian elites started even prior to the armed conflict. On February 14, 2022, 37 deputies from the Ukrainian president's parliamentary faction “Servant of the People" suddenly went “missing.” Had MPs not been banned from leaving the country the very next day, others would’ve definitely joined them. Meanwhile, former officials and oligarchs enjoyed more freedom to move around. According to the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, 20 business jets took off from Kiev’s Boryspol airport on the 14th as well.

    Tycoons were at the front of the line. Entrepreneur and MP Vadim Novinsky, businessmen Vasily Khmelnitsky and Vadim Stolar, Vadim Nesterenko, and Andrey Stavnitzer all left the country on charter flights. Millionaire politician Igor Abramovich booked a private flight to Austria for 50 people – taking relatives, business partners, and fellow party members aboard. Oligarchs flew from Kiev to Nice, Munich, Vienna, Cyprus, and other EU destinations. Another group of businessmen took off from Odessa on private planes. The owner of Vostok Bank departed for Israel, while the head of the Transship group flew to Limassol. An ex-governor of the Odessa region, Stalkanat's Vladimir Nemirovsky, also left the country.

    In the summer and early fall of 2022, ‘Ukrainska Pravda’ prepared several investigative documentaries about fit-for-service Ukrainian billionaires and officials spotted vacationing on the Côte d'Azur during the war. A movie with the ironic title “The Monaco Battalion” shows Ukrainian oligarchs resting at their villas, mansions, and on yachts. In the first part, we see businessman Konstantin Zhevago, who is included on Interpol’s wanted list, relaxing on his private yacht worth $70 million. The yacht graces the shoreline of the Côte d'Azur as Zhevago’s family disembarks. Kharkov entrepreneur Alexander Yaroslavsky, who promised to sell his yacht and transfer the funds towards the restoration of Kharkov, can be seen sailing alongside.


    Ukrainska Pravda’ journalists also got a glimpse of the Surkis brothers in France, who’re currently renting apartments worth €2 million per year. Meanwhile, a $300,000 Bentley belonging to Ukrainian businessman Vadim Ermolaev was spotted near the casino in Monaco, and Eduard Kohan, the co-founder of Euroenergotrade, was seen at one of Monte Carlo’s chic hotels.

    A whole colony of Ukrainian oligarchs has apparently taken up residence in the elite French commune of Cap-Ferrat. Land developer Vadim Solar, oligarchs Dmitry Firtash, Vitaly Khomutynnik, and Sergey Lovochkin are among those enjoying high life in the middle of the war. The Cap-Ferrat villa once belonging to King Leopold II of Belgium was bought by the richest Ukrainian oligarch Rinat Akhmetov. His neighbors are Alexander Davtyan, President of the Investment Group DAD LLC, and Vladislav Gelzin, a former deputy of the Donetsk Regional Council.

    ‘All the real skinheads went to Ukraine’: An American Neo-Nazi outlines the crimes of his Ukrainian ‘colleagues’
    ‘All the real skinheads went to Ukraine’: An American Neo-Nazi outlines the crimes of his Ukrainian ‘colleagues’
    As the creators of the film repeatedly emphasize, deputies and businessmen of “pro-Russian” parliamentary factions left the country during the war. Yet many active supporters of the current government also prefer to defend their homeland from abroad.

    ‘Ukrainska Pravda’ managed to interview Andrei Kholodov, an MP from Vladimir Zelensky’s faction “Servant of the People”, from his current residence in Vienna. The Austrian capital was also chosen by nationalist Nikita Poturaev and Sergei Melnichuk, a former head of the Aidar battalion known for war crimes reported by Amnesty International. The former head of the Constitutional Court of Ukraine, 59-year-old Alexander Tupitsky, and the 45-year-old ex-prosecutor general of Ukraine Ruslan Ryaboshapka also preferred foreign “trenches.”

    Members of the Ukrainian parliament are in no hurry to adopt vitally important laws for the country during wartime. According to the Telegram channel “Volyn News,” as of March 11, 2022, more than 20 MPs had moved abroad for unspecified reasons. The geography is extensive: Great Britain, Poland, Qatar, Spain, France, Austria, Romania, Hungary, UAE, Moldova, Israel, etc. In March, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine launched an investigation into the actions of six parliamentarians who have remained abroad.

    Apparently, neither war nor punishment can put Ukrainian legislators to work. Only 99 deputies out of 450 attended the session of the Parliament on July 20. Presumably distracted by summer, the Côte d'Azur, the Maldives, and yachts… As for defending Ukraine itself – just leave it to the foreign volunteers, they say.


    Where’s all the military and humanitarian aid going?

    Some western benefactors have recently noticed that most of the military and humanitarian aid never reaches Ukraine’s army or ordinary citizens.

    In an original documentary, CBS reported that about 70% of military aid failed to find its way to the intended beneficiaries and donor countries are often unable to control its intended use. According to the creators of the report, some of the weapons are sold on the black market. As US Marine Corps veteran Andy Milburn said, “I can tell you unarguably that on the frontline units these things are not getting there. Drones, Switchblades, IFAKs. They’re not, alright. Body armor, helmets, you name it.”

    Is there a link between 'Aid to Ukraine,' the US Democratic Party and the suspicious collapse of the FTX Crypto exchange?
    Is there a link between 'Aid to Ukraine,' the US Democratic Party and the suspicious collapse of the FTX Crypto exchange?
    The Grayzone writes that weapons and humanitarian aid provided by the West to the Ukrainian military is being stolen along the way and never reaches the soldiers. At the same time, Ukrainian MPs recently gave themselves a 70% pay raise. The author of the piece argues that billions of dollars from the USA and the EU have been diverted.

    A Ukrainian soldier named Ivan told journalists about western funds never reaching the front: “Imagine telling an American soldier that we are using our personal cars in the war, and we’re also responsible for paying for repairs and fuel. We’re buying our own body armor and helmets. We don’t have observation tools or cameras, so soldiers have to pop their heads out to see what’s coming, which means at any moment, a rocket or tank can tear their heads off.”

    Samantha Morris, a medical doctor from the US, drew attention to the theft of medical supplies and the overall corruption: “The lead doctor at the military base in Sumy has ordered medical supplies from and for the military at different points in time, and he has had 15 trucks of supplies completely disappear,” she said. The doctors couldn’t even set up courses for medical assistants until a friend of the Sumy region governor interceded.

    CNN talked to a retired US colonel who said that Ukrainian troops are short on supplies. Small arms, medical equipment, field hospitals and a lot more are under the control of private organizations – more concerned about stealing money than saving the lives of their compatriots.

    As Stephen Myers, a former member of the US Department of State Advisory Committee on International Economic Policy, insisted, “There is little to prevent a field commander from diverting some of the equipment to buyers, aka the Russians, the Chinese, the Iranians or whomever, while claiming the equipment and weapons were destroyed…”

    Thousands of tons of humanitarian aid is being stolen. In September, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) proved that the head of the Office of the President, Andrei Yermak, his deputy Kirill Tymoshenko, the head of “The Servant of the People” faction David Arakhamiya and his friend Vemir Davityan were behind the large-scale theft of humanitarian aid in the Zaporozhye region. Zaporozhye officials Starukh, Nekrasova, Sherbina, and Kurtev only superficially carried out the task of distributing aid. In six months, they organized the theft of 22 sea containers, 389 railway cars, and 220 trucks. Humanitarian aid was sold in ATB and Selpo – supermarkets owned by Gennady Butkevich and Vladimir Kostelman, respectively. Of course, Tymoshenko, Nekrasova and Davityan all became “refugees” and found asylum in Vienna.

    The BBC made up a story about a Russian 'attack' on a Ukrainian city's water supply – where are the 'fake news' fact checkers?
    The BBC made up a story about a Russian 'attack' on a Ukrainian city's water supply – where are the 'fake news' fact checkers?
    Admittedly, not everyone is on the run. Andrei Yarmolsky, the scandalous former deputy head of the Volyn regional administration – accused of stealing humanitarian aid, supplying defective bulletproof vests, and illegally moving men out of the country – was promoted. He now works for the National Security and Defense Council.

    Medical supplies are also being stolen. The Telegraph reportsthat “some of the donated supplies later made their way onto the hospitals’ pharmacy shelves: priced, and listed for sale". Health workers appropriate medicine, bandages, and medical equipment, and resell them to patients for whom they were intended to be free, the article says.

    A similar story was told by the aforementioned doctor Dr Morris: “I got a call from a nurse at a military hospital in Dnipro. She said the president of the hospital had stolen all the pain medications to resell them, and that the wounded soldiers being treated there had no pain relief. She begged us to hand-deliver pain medications to her. She said she would hide them from the hospital president so that they’d reach the soldiers. But who can you trust? Was the hospital president really stealing the medications, or was she trying to con us into giving her pain medications for her to sell or use? Who knows. Everyone is lying.”

    War for some, Gucci for others

    Enormous cash flows from Western countries are continuously used by corrupt Ukrainian officials for personal enrichment and to acquire luxury goods.

    In a recently busted corruption scheme, Odessa customs smuggled shirts, backpacks, sports shoes, belts, and other luxury items by Givenchy, Gucci, Polo, Dolce & Gabbana, Michael Kors, Chanel, Louis Vuitton, and Armani under the guise of army equipment. The documents, declaring the cargo as “for the needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine,” were signed by the acting head of the Odessa customs Vitaly Zakolodyazhny. According to MP Alexander Dubinsky, this is a common theft scheme. “The work of the customs is unsatisfactory because while some are fighting at the front, others are making money under the guise of their customs uniforms," the parliamentarian said.

    To take another example, in May 2022, Western countries abolished customs duties for Ukraine. Within a week, over 14,000 passenger cars were imported into the country. As the Deputy Minister of Infrastructure Mustafa Nayem commented, "Considering we’re a country at war, our partners in Poland, Slovakia, and Romania were quite surprised by this fast-paced upgrade to our vehicle fleet.”

    As they go about acquiring luxurious clothes and cars, the thieves are also taking care to withdraw capital from Ukraine.

    Vladimir Putin is absent from this week's G20 summit: What does it mean for the Russian President and the event itself?
    Vladimir Putin is absent from this week's G20 summit: What does it mean for the Russian President and the event itself?
    According to the Bureau of Economic Security of Ukraine, Ukraine’s budget is missing UAH 4.5 billion worth of taxes from agrotraders: “In August-September 2022, almost 12 million tons of grain crops and oil estimated at UAH 137 billion were exported through the customs territory of Ukraine. Of these, almost 4 million tons were exported by fake companies existing only on paper.” Moreover, “most of the non-resident companies to which grain is exported are high-risk and involved in criminal investigations.” Is this the “grain deal” that the global community is actively cheering? It looks like Ukrainian fraudsters are corrupting not just their own country, but foreign states as well. And this is just one example out of many.

    When the Surkis brothers left Ukraine, they took $17 million with them. But that’s just a trifle compared to the “heroes of the Euromaidan.” According to former People's Deputy of Ukraine Oleg Tsarev, after the outbreak of hostilities leading Ukrainian politicians sent both their capital and their families abroad.

    He mentions that the parents and relatives of President Vladimir Zelensky and his wife all left the country. Zelensky’s predecessor, former president Petr Poroshenko, moved not just his children but also about a billion US dollars in cash to the UK.

    The same applies to other major Ukrainian officials: former Minister of Internal Affairs Arsen Avakov, the head of the Office of the President Andriy Yermak, the second President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma, the former Prime Minister of Ukraine Arseniy Yatsenyuk and many others all took their families and fortunes, estimated at around a billion dollars, out of the country. And that’s not to mention the numerous politically-affiliated oligarchs.

    Scammers of smaller stature can “individually join the EU” as well. A system of bribery allows military-age males to leave the country. According to Izvestia, the fee is currently between $8,000 and $10,000. The Ukrainian media also actively reports on people paying to cross the border.

    ***

    The sympathy of Westerners towards a country at war is understandable. But while some countries are doing their upmost to aid Ukraine – even while facing an economic crisis themselves – corrupt Ukrainian officials are using the funding to amass personal fortunes and live the high life at fancy resorts. And all at the expense of taxpayers in the West.

    In 2015, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, upon leaving the post of the Prime Minister of Ukraine, openly declared that he had become a billionaire. It is yet to be seen how many new Ukrainian super rich tycoons – nurtured by foreign military aid – will appear in the West by the end of the conflict.
    “My weary heart goes wandering along the path it knew
    Back to the dear old cottage, back, Mother dear, to you..
    And I forget my troubles put by each doubt and fear
    Reborn anew through your dear faith God bless you Mother dear.”

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    35 Russian POWs released. Some were forced to walk and crawl after being shot in the knees.

    https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595915162988339201



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://www.rt.com/russia/567082-cia...cruit-embassy/


    Moscow reacts to CIA plan to recruit Russians

    A CIA bid to recruit agents among Russian citizens is yet more proof that the US is seeking to undermine the country, Russia’s embassy in Washington said on Thursday, adding that these attempts would not succeed.

    The embassy was commenting on a recent Wall Street Journal report, which revealed that the CIA’s deputy director of operations, David Marlowe, had expressed interest in recruiting Russians who were “disgusted” with the Ukraine conflict, announcing that the agency is “open for business.”

    “We had no illusions about the CIA’s anti-Russian activities,” the diplomatic mission wrote on Telegram, adding that it is common knowledge that the US intelligence community is trying “to destabilize the situation in Russia.”

    According to the embassy, Marlowe’s remarks “only confirm Washington’s hostile course aimed at weakening our country from within through sophisticated subversive methods.”

    CIA reveals plan for disgruntled Russians
    CIA reveals plan for disgruntled Russians
    It also noted that Marlowe’s words may have been motivated by “a trivial desire to get public attention and make Congress increase the intelligence agency budget.”

    “One can hardly disagree with some experts who explain the Russophobic zeal of the CIA with the wish to compensate for reputational costs associated with the fiasco with the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan,” the mission said.

    It declared that any attempts to sow discord in Russia “are doomed to failure,” claiming that most of its citizens support Moscow’s military operation in Ukraine, which started in late February.

    Last month, the Russian Foreign Ministry summoned a Dutch ambassador to Moscow to protest against Western intelligence agencies’ attempts to recruit Russian personnel serving abroad. According to the ministry, US intelligence operatives tried to approach Russian diplomats in the Netherlands at least twice.

    Appointed by current CIA Director William Burns, Marlowe is an Arabic speaker with expertise in the Near and Middle East. Marlowe believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin “squandered” all of his power and influence by “invading” Ukraine. He described the conflict as a massive failure for Moscow and said it spells an opportunity for Western intelligence agencies to recruit disaffected Russians.
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    https://tass.com/politics/1541553?ut...m_social_share

    Fifty Russian soldiers return from Ukrainian captivity — Defense Ministry

    It is reported that all the released servicemen are receiving required medical and psychological assistance

    MOSCOW, November 24. /TASS/. Fifty Russian soldiers have returned from the Ukrainian captivity, Russia’s Defense Ministry announced on Thursday.

    "On November 24, 50 Russian servicemen who faced a fatal danger in captivity have been returned from the territory controlled by the Kiev regime as a result of the negotiating process," the ministry said in a statement.

    Military transport planes of the Russian Aerospace Forces will deliver all the released servicemen to Moscow for medical treatment and recovery at the Defense Ministry’s medical institutions, it said.

    "All the released servicemen are receiving required medical and psychological assistance," the ministry said.

    The previous prisoner swap with Ukraine was held on November 23 when 35 Russian servicemen returned from the Ukrainian captivity.



    https://tass.com/politics/1541651


    Ukrainian army suffering major casualties trying to break through defenses in LPR

    "Every day, they make four to six or even more attempts to carry out counteroffensive operations but they have come to realize that in fact, all their attempts lead to huge manpower and equipment losses on our segment of the frontline," Apty Alaudinov pointed out
    LUGANSK, November 24. /TASS/. Ukrainian troops keep trying to break through the allied forces’ defenses in the Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR), suffering major manpower and equipment losses, commander of the Akhmat commando unit and Deputy Commander of the 2nd Army Corps of LPR People’s Militia Apty Alaudinov told TASS on Thursday.

    "Every day, they make four to six or even more attempts to carry out counteroffensive operations but they have come to realize that in fact, all their attempts lead to huge manpower and equipment losses on our segment of the frontline," he pointed out. "They are like moths flying into the fire, they keep trying every day, sending their fighters to die and they actually fail to even retrieve their dead so thousands of bodies remain scattered on the battlefields," Alaudinov added.

    He said earlier that members of the 2nd Army Corps of the LPR People’s Militia and the Akhmat special operations unit had established a strong defense line between the city of Kremennaya and the Chervonopopovka settlement in the LPR.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Some people are stating that Masha is influencing people to be Pro-Russian, this is very disrespectful of the independent minds who contribute to this forum, if there is a largely pro-Russian sentiment this is because the geo-political events of the past 30 years show us that NATO is no longer representative of the old allied forces from WWII, that it has become a mockery of the values our forefathers and mothers defended, the anti-Nazi struggles of the 1940's. Russia is not all light and goodness, but it does have the right to defend its country, to demand that western entities do not use Ukraine as its plaything, and tool for deposing the Russian government. I think reasonable people everywhere understand why Russia mobilized and decided to do something about the Ukrainian situation, I rarely speak with Masha, I don't really know much about her, I wish her well but my thinking is the result of my own assessment of this situation, I am appalled with how the West has been corrupted and misguided by WEF groups, my own father was an Engineer in WWII, I was raised to hate Nazism, and to support freedom, this is why I feel sympathy for Russia, more power to them.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Cross-posting this from Houman's thread.

    Quote Posted by Houman (here)
    Quote Russian Solider explaining organ harvesting by the Kyiv regime.
    https://media.gab.com/system/media_a...56df35456a.mp4


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    Some people are stating that Masha is influencing people to be Pro-Russian, this is very disrespectful of the independent minds who contribute to this forum...
    I am stating so YES
    It is the way it is. We are all influencers knowingly or unknowingly. What we write has an impact. But don't you worry I won't be disrespectful anymore with my posts on this thread lol.

    .. one more thing - If a country is not NATO member it does not mean we should support its actions blindly. Based on that only NO.
    We can support N.Korea in that case..
    Last edited by Isserley; 25th November 2022 at 08:54.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    ...if there is a largely pro-Russian sentiment this is because the geo-political events of the past 30 years show us that NATO is no longer representative of the old allied forces from WWII, that it has become a mockery of the values our forefathers and mothers defended, the anti-Nazi struggles of the 1940's.
    Yes, except we were conned then, too.

    Again with, perhaps, a nod to Aldous Huxley...understanding that all of those events were centrally-planned in the 1930s, and with the "end of the war" you had Operation Paperclip, and no real reason for NATO--from the very beginning--other than to "keep Germany down", and theoretically cover the world like an umbrella.

    Geo-politics since the beginning of the Great Game, then, shifted to the U. S. as the "provider".

    Not hard to see that German unification was always retaliated by the UK, starting with the Boer Wars and Entente.

    Admittedly, all this would have been quite hard to see for the typical person, whereas in modern times, at least the information is available. What we call Nazism is straight out of the Ivy League and Oxbridge, not otherwise. The "science" of economics is able to move it across borders, so that at first we don't notice how the obliterated Germany of the 1920s was beefed up almost exclusively by the U. S./U. K., while they also imported Eugenics and related ideas from our "intellectual centers".

    "We" had moral values here, I know because they were passed on to me generationally, from conditions that were true, let's say, pre-1900. These values were already completely against the British Empire. On the other hand, German was almost our national language, since before the politically-motivated "Italian flood" about 49% of our settlers were German.

    Besides the U. S., there are not many examples of a former colony licking the boots of its former master, and, then, roughly, eating it.

    I am not really pro-Russia so much as anti-Deceit, the true power that seems to reign in English-speaking countries, perhaps even the English language itself. I think we are fortunate to have Masha; anyone like that has troubled to learn English as a second language in order to deal with us. Notice how very few Arabs, Chinese, etc., waste their time posting similar material in English-speaking venues? They know these things, but are not on a great mission to convince us about anything, because more of their efforts go in to maintaining their own existence.


    Here again in "unintended consequences", note the double-speak of "ally" as in "Turkey is an ally of the U. S.", whereas "the Kurds" are not:


    Syrian Kurds in Letter to Biden: US Must Aid Allies, Halt Turkish Attacks

    Pentagon Press Secretary Brig. Gen. Patrick Ryder expressed “deep concern” over the recent Turkish strikes, claiming that in at least one instance they “directly threatened the safety of US personnel.” However, he reiterated that the US recognizes what he described as Turkey’s “legitimate security concerns.”


    Because the SDF and some Peshmergas are U. S. proxies, Iran and Iraq are doing smaller amounts of the same thing. If any of them hit the Americans, oh well. Yes, that totally is an "illegal occupation", while Russian naval and land bases are an agreement.

    Turkey is "under pressure" to let Finland into NATO; Finland just lowered its physical requirements for military service, to accommodate "Playstation generation". China on the other hand is passing material intended to limit under-18 year olds to no more than three hours of video games a week, which they call "spiritual opium".

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Scott Ritter absolutely on fire here in this short 4 minute segment

    Canadian Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland Called Out On War Crimes Issue In Ukraine

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    hear! hear! Mick Wallace....



    Source: https://twitter.com/wallacemick/stat...72886479937537

    Text:
    "There's no legal framework for #EU to recognise a State Sponsor of Terrorism - Even the #US have refused to apply label to Russia. The idea that anyone from a blood-drenched #NATO State would label anyone else a sponsor of Terrorism before calling out their own State, is absurd.."
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    In relation to the absurd continual shelling by the Ukrainians on the ZNPP



    Source: https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/s...71826159976449
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