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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

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    UK Avalon Member Mike Gorman's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    The Russian forces really need to stop abandoning their own people, this looks awful from a psychological/morale point of view, the Ukraine forces have zero compunction to horribly kill pro-Russian civilians - this is huge mistake on the Russian part, if they are intent on liberating Donbass they need to go 'all-in' and wipe out the NATO/Ukraine forces, I feel for the folks left behind, where do they have to run to?

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Does no one here question the logic of the Russians to potentially use nukes to defend their illegitimate land grab in the Ukraine? Even if you think your neighbour practices satanism, does that justify stealing his backyard by force? How can a man who invades be called the leader of the free world? I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread.
    What specifically leads you to say that this is an illegitimate land grab?

    At this point do you realize what would happen if Russia just left Ukraine a week ago and abandoned all the civilians in contested regions?

    How do you think Ukraine would treat Russian speaking Ukrainians in the region? Do you think they would be left alive?
    Are you aware of what has been happening in Ukraine since 2014?

    What do the people in the region have to say?


    Putin has not used nukes, so not sure why you are criticizing Russia for something that has not happened?

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  5. Link to Post #5463
    Canada Avalon Member Justplain's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Blastolabs (here)
    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    Does no one here question the logic of the Russians to potentially use nukes to defend their illegitimate land grab in the Ukraine? Even if you think your neighbour practices satanism, does that justify stealing his backyard by force? How can a man who invades be called the leader of the free world? I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread.
    What specifically leads you to say that this is an illegitimate land grab?

    At this point do you realize what would happen if Russia just left Ukraine a week ago and abandoned all the civilians in contested regions?

    How do you think Ukraine would treat Russian speaking Ukrainians in the region? Do you think they would be left alive?
    Are you aware of what has been happening in Ukraine since 2014?

    What do the people in the region have to say?


    Putin has not used nukes, so not sure why you are criticizing Russia for something that has not happened?
    Its an illegitimate land grab because all of the republics of the ussr accepted the borders at the dissolution of the ussr. Also the Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees that have clearly not been honored.

    I would think that a peacekeeping force could have been deployed to ensure the security of russian speaking people in contested regions, and this could have been achieved without an invasion.

    What of the loyal Ukrainians who have have had to abandon their homes and communities that have been flattened by the Russian artillery? What of those who have died or been abused by Russian forces? That is all western propaganda you say. Sure.

    And regarding those referenda, what legitimacy can you give a vote in a land controlled by military occupation whose residents have mostly fled, or died, and who vote under duress? Another question is did Russia hold any such referendum in Chechnya before the most recent Chechnyan war? Of course they didnt cuz this is all bull****.

    You guys have drunk the Putin koolaid, sorry, but the mass murderer Putin is not the leader of the free world. And the next think we'll see this maniac you idolize dropping nukes in the Ukraine. And you'll likely still support him then. Give your head a shake.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    You guys have drunk the Putin koolaid, sorry, but the mass murderer Putin is not the leader of the free world. And the next think we'll see this maniac you idolize dropping nukes in the Ukraine. And you'll likely still support him then. Give your head a shake.
    the whole situation is a glorious example of the power of propaganda....

    lazy thinking is very attractive, I can't even get mad at those that fall for it anymore.
    Hard times create strong men, Strong men create good times, Good times create weak men, Weak men create hard times.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    You guys have drunk the Putin koolaid, sorry, but the mass murderer Putin is not the leader of the free world. And the next think we'll see this maniac you idolize dropping nukes in the Ukraine. And you'll likely still support him then. Give your head a shake.

    Really?


    This is after HIMARS and Cesars were assassinating the actual voting stations??

    I don't support anyone, but, if there is someone able to stand up against the U. S. and English, they are on my side.

    We cannot yet be sure if King Charles (or is it George, I already can't remember) can establish a Fourth Reich over a few failed German states and some Polish weirdos, but that does not seem to prevent a whole lot of effort being spent. Good luck with that!


    You can, of course, commit naval warfare off Bornholm Island about like you can wantonly violate airspace over the eastern U. S. multiple times. Hush money is out there somewhere.


    Borrel did not like it either:


    The fact that the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics and the Zaporozhye and Kherson Regions joined Russia makes ending the conflict in Ukraine practically impossible, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell told Spain’s 24 Horas TV channel on Saturday.

    "No one will recognize the annexation of these territories," he insisted. According to the EU’s top diplomat, this decision by the Russian government makes it "practically impossible for the war to end."


    Meanwhile, for the English of the English:

    On Friday, UK Chancellor of the Exchequer Kwazi Kwarteng announced a 45 billion pound ($48 billion) tax-cutting package that would benefit the highest earners most, causing concern about unsustainable government borrowing.

    The International Monetary Fund (IMF) in a statement to Sputnik on Tuesday said the fund is closely following reports about concerning economic developments in the British economy and currently engaged with UK authorities about the matter.


    Next year, Volkswagen will probably be made by the Oklahoma Cherokee.

    This is after (a) repeal of labor laws and (b) repeal of medical laws after the Maidan coup made Ukraine a cash cow for related western interests. But if this doesn't work, we can just trash Germany and offer their oligarchs tax breaks and other incentives to bring work to the obviously-stagnated U. S. industry.


    Remember how only thirty years ago we though it might have been a bad idea to offshore our factories and give General Motors a kingdom on the Isle of Man? And out goes Glass-Steagall.

    Only ten years ago, they said you better not make this pipeline through the Dakotas, etc., and so now fracking will come back, and if I remember rightly then the access on this land was already granted, so there is a chance we might earn a small transport fee for the privilege of having chemicals pumped into the ground water that we actually live on. Yay!

    I am not sure anyone gets caught holding the bag until Deutsche Bank coughs up its confession. I don't know where we will come up with the $4 Quadrillion. Or how much longer anyone can EU their way around it.

    You have pretty much just been promised unending war, if I understand the statement from the entity which was designed to "prevent" it.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    You guys have drunk the Putin koolaid, sorry, but the mass murderer Putin is not the leader of the free world. And the next think we'll see this maniac you idolize dropping nukes in the Ukraine. And you'll likely still support him then. Give your head a shake.
    the whole situation is a glorious example of the power of propaganda....

    lazy thinking is very attractive, I can't even get mad at those that fall for it anymore.
    Same here TargeT, it's just depressing that so many people are so ignorant of what has led up to this, and what is really going on. It's not like all the relevant info isn't right here.



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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)


    I would think that a peacekeeping force could have been deployed to ensure the security of russian speaking people in contested regions, and this could have been achieved without an invasion.
    I've lifted this paragraph from your previous post to make a comment...

    I'm no expert on the Ukraine situation past and present and I'm learning as I go along... but...

    I've had a (fairly quick) look to see what the history of Peacekeeping proposals in Ukraine has been over the years and this article written in 2017 seems to be a general guide on it ...

    https://warontherocks.com/2017/09/a-...rd-in-ukraine/

    beginning with....

    Quote Russian President Vladimir Putin’s proposal to send U.N. peacekeepers to Ukraine received a tepid response from the West, but such a mission could very well be a first step in ending the conflict.
    it then goes on to expand on Putin's proposal and then outlines other proposals.. none of which have been implemented as far as I know... and we saw earlier in the year not long after the Special Military Operation kicked off that when Zelensky appeared to be moving towards a Peace Agreement...to end military hostilities with Russia - UK PM Boris Johnson was deployed and flown in to scupper it ... what Johnson said to Zelensky to change his mind we will never know but it must have been persuasive (threatening?)...

    The Big Picture (IMO) is that the Globalist Elite who have control of NATO and are embedded in Military organizations around the world...... don't want a peaceful solution... in fact want a war with Russia with a view to regime change and taking over the country and it's resources... 'they' have been pushing and provoking Putin and Russia for many years especially with the Military Coup in Ukraine 2014...

    In a nut shell... from their point of view - you can only have a One World Government and Global Digital Currency -- you can only have total control of everything if eventually all countries are participating and now it looks like they are going 'all in' to force the situation with Russia - not caring one little bit about how many citizens around the world die or have their lives ruined - in fact they probably welcome the depopulation angle -

    To summarize - I believe that NATO (and allies) want war and Putin (and allies) want peace... but Russia will not just roll over and let the Globalists destroy her and take over the land and resources...

    so we have a dangerous situation where all our futures are being put at risk...
    Last edited by jaybee; 2nd October 2022 at 09:15.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Mike Gorman (here)
    The Russian forces really need to stop abandoning their own people, this looks awful from a psychological/morale point of view, the Ukraine forces have zero compunction to horribly kill pro-Russian civilians - this is huge mistake on the Russian part, if they are intent on liberating Donbass they need to go 'all-in' and wipe out the NATO/Ukraine forces, I feel for the folks left behind, where do they have to run to?
    I believe (but I may be wrong) that Liman was deserted, as well as having little strategic value. I don't think there was anyone actually living there. As best I understand, it's just the Russians being careful (again) and next week much if not all of this will br reversed several times over.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    For the important formal record (about nukes et al), here is Putin's entire speech. It's very well worth following the whole thing.

    Everything he said is important to understand, and his "This is not a bluff" concluding comment has been taken wildly (and predictably!) out of context by western media and western politicians.

    All the nuclear warmongering and threats have come from the US.
    (Supported by Liz Truss in the UK! )

    https://twitter.com/PutinDirect/stat...46601321308160

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...32440293990400
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...35752493891584


    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...25788005879808


    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...32929651802112


    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...33507333328896


    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...33153119760384
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 2nd October 2022 at 21:50. Reason: fixed the first twitter URL
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...25952276127745



    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...10585302237186


    https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...38388898848768
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Thanks Bill, I have looked further into this and also listened to The Duran's analysis and I had not fully appreciated how deserted this town is, my mistake.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    ...

    ... banksters placing their bet on the roulette table:


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...95024271196160


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...95961992085506


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...91142094704641


    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...91147430195200
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...77296797814784


    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...77304997687297



    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...77314342678534


    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...76239464173568


    https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/stat...76245101654016
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://www.rt.com/news/563890-germa...raine-weapons/


    German defense minister makes pledge on surprise Ukraine visit

    German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht made an unannounced visit to Ukraine on Saturday, where she vowed to provide more military aid in the coming days, including the long-promised Iris-T SLM ground-based air defense system.

    “In a few days, we will deliver the very modern Iris-T air defense system,” she announced following a meeting with her Ukrainian counterpart, Aleksey Reznikov, in the Black Sea port city of Odessa.

    Berlin initially promised in June to send Kiev at least one Iris-T unit. Ukraine reportedly wants to obtain at least a dozen and has offered to purchase the rest directly from the manufacturer, even though Germany’s own armed forces have yet to receive these systems themselves.

    Germany has sent over €743 million ($728 million) worth of arms to Ukraine, including multiple deliveries of self-propelled Gepard anti-aircraft guns and PzH 2000 howitzers, since the start of the conflict in late February.

    France to send rejected howitzers to Ukraine – media READ MORE: France to send rejected howitzers to Ukraine – media
    Kiev, however, has repeatedly criticized Berlin for supposedly not doing enough and refusing to provide it with Leopard battle tanks and Marder infantry fighting vehicles. Chancellor Olaf Scholz promised in August that Germany's “most modern and efficient equipment” would be supplied to Ukraine “soon,” referring to the Iris-T systems and Cobra artillery radars, but not tanks.

    Berlin argues that no other country has so far sent modern tanks, with Lambrecht reiterating on Saturday that Germany “has always made it clear that we will not go it alone in this area,” in order to avoid “escalation.” Instead, Berlin has offered third countries, such as Greece, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, and Poland, to transfer their stockpiles of Soviet-era hardware to Ukraine in exchange for modern German weaponry.

    Moscow has long criticized the deliveries of weapons, arguing that they only prolong the conflict and increase the risk of a direct confrontation between Russia and NATO.
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
    - - - - Emily Elizabeth Dickinson. 🪶💜

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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/st...04829299593216


    https://tass.com/world/1516625?utm_s...m_social_share

    Ex-advisor to Pentagon chief suggests US, UK might be behind Nord Streams incident

    Douglas Macgregor called the notion that Moscow was behind the incident at the pipelines absurd

    NEW YORK, October 2. /TASS/. The US and the UK may be behind the explosions at Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 pipelines, former advisor to US Defense Secretary in the administration of ex-president of the United States Donald Trump, Douglas Macgregor, said in a conversation with Andrew Napolitano, the presenter of the Judging Freedom podcast.

    "You have to look at who are the state actors that have the capability to do this. And that means the [UK’s] Royal Navy and the United States’ Navy <…> I think that’s pretty clear," Macgregor said. He also noted the publication by Poland’s former foreign minister (2007-2014), European parliament member Radoslaw Sikorski, who thanked the United States for damaging the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines on his Twitter page.

    Ex-advisor to the Pentagon chief called the notion that Moscow was behind the incident at the pipelines absurd. "The Russians did not do this," he said, adding that Germany’s involvement in the incident was "extremely unlikely" either.

    Four Nord Stream gas pipeline leaks have been uncovered, with the most recent one being pinpointed by Sweden’s coast guard. Earlier, the Nord Stream AG company reported that three threads of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 offshore gas pipelines had suffered unprecedented damage on Monday. Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov stated that Moscow was "deeply concerned about the news" and did not rule out that the pipelines’ operation could have been disrupted by an act of sabotage. Swedish seismologists later reported that two explosions had been recorded along the Nord Stream pipelines on Monday. The Danish Energy Agency reported that a large amount of gas had spilled into the sea. Aircraft and ships are barred from approaching the site any closer than five nautical miles.
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Putin: "The West is ready to cross every line to preserve the neo-colonial system which allows it to live off the world, to plunder it thanks to the domination of the dollar and technology, to collect an actual tribute from humanity, to extract its primary source of unearned prosperity, the rent paid to the hegemon. The preservation of this annuity is their main, real and absolutely self-serving motivation. This is why total de-sovereignisation is in their interest. This explains their aggression towards independent states, traditional values and authentic cultures, their attempts to undermine international and integration processes, new global currencies and technological development centres they cannot control. It is critically important for them to force all countries to surrender their sovereignty to the United States. "

    Amazingly, from my observations, only a tiny percentage of US citizens know that this is 100% truth. 99% of US citizens are generally high on inhaled sparkly unicorn fart particles and so engorged on propaganda that they wouldn't know the truth if it kissed them on the lips.


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