WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[Vicus]

Russia reinforcing border with Ukraine

‘Large scale’ work is underway, the governor of Belgorod Region has announced

A new line of defense is being created on the border between Ukraine and Russia’s western Belgorod Region, governor Vyacheslav Gladkov announced during a press conference on Monday.

The official said the move comes in response to increasing tensions at the border, but did not disclose details about the construction, warning that his statements are “being carefully listened to by our enemies.”

“I will state this briefly: the work is being carried out on a large scale. Since April, within the framework of our powers, we have been actively engaged in strengthening the borders,” Gladkov said.

Asked if he is referring to the so-called “Wagner line” — a system of anti-tank structures built by the Russian private military organization the “Wagner group” in the Donbass Region — Gladkov said he would prefer not to comment on other “respected people” and wanted to focus on Belgorod’s so-called ‘zasechnaya’ line.

A ‘zasechnaya’ line refers to wooden defensive structures, consisting of felled trees, used by Russia between the 10th and 18th centuries to defend against enemy raids.

“The Belgorod Region has always stood at the frontier of the defense of the Russian state, and continues to do so,” the governor said.

After Russia began its military operation in Ukraine in late February, Kiev’s forces have repeatedly shelled and launched drones against civilian and military targets in the region. In some cases, private residences, as well as a school and kindergarten have been struck.

Last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin introduced a “medium action level” alert in some parts of Western Russia. It grants regional officials additional authority to ensure security and quickly react to any emergencies.

https://www.rt.com/russia/566993-rus...kraine-border/

[Vicus]

US downplays execution of Russian POWs in Ukraine

Washington’s envoy for war crimes has acknowledged videos showing executions of captives while claiming Russians have done worse

While acknowledging concern over videos that showed Ukrainian forces executing captured Russian soldiers, the US war crimes envoy has argued that allegations against Kiev’s forces pale in comparison to Moscow’s alleged atrocities.

“We are obviously tracking that quite closely,” Beth Van Schaack, US ambassador-at-large for global criminal justice, told reporters in a telephone briefing on Monday. “It’s really important to emphasize that the laws of war apply to all parties equally, both the aggressor state and the defender state, and this is in equal measure.”

However, Van Schaack added, “when it comes to the war in Ukraine, that’s really where the equivalency ends. When we’re looking at the sheer scale of criminality exhibited by Russian forces, it’s enormous compared to the allegations that we have seen against Ukrainian forces.”

The envoy also claimed that Kiev has dealt with allegations of wrongdoing more responsibly.

“Russia inevitably responds with propaganda, denial, mis- and disinformation, whereas the Ukrainian authorities have generally acknowledged abuses and have denounced them and have pledged to investigate them,” she said.

continue: https://www.rt.com/news/566961-washi...pow-execution/

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...72125085024258

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...54512137322497

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/...99106056511489

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/st...16062751993860

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=C_-ycZtFzho

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...59084990251009

https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...57649712005121

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/ChannelOne_eng/s...87375297724417

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/...52406420951040

[Michel Leclerc]

Posted by Mashika (here)
Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?


(...) Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? (...)

Taking your questions as real questions and not rhetorical ones, Mashika, could it be that the answer is the absence of a government like Vladimir Putin’s?

In other words, in Ukraine the strategy of lobotomising, raping and raiding the morsels of the Soviet Union succeeded – because there was no“Putin” to take over from a “Yeltsin” (while in Russia there was one), and maybe there was not even a “Yeltsin” in Ukraine, whereas the Russian Yeltsin, in spite of all his defects had the wisdom not to hold up the transition ultimately?

And if that is the case – doesn’t that prove the theory right that political transformations depend on the presence or absence of leadership qualities in the leaders? (Instead of considering them uniquely dependent on sociological and/or economical constraints?)

The answers are yes, I guess (my questions being rhetorical). For the countries of the world to see, what has been and is happening to Ukraine is what happens to a country, or a nation, or a civilisation, or a culture when it does not stand up for its essence, and is not led by people who have the mission to do so.

[shaberon]

Too much fun. After the planeload of Nazis went to China begging for anything they could get their hands on, their next bright idea was to use state subsidies to pin Volkswagen in place. Then back to the plane and:




While most members were trying to focus on actual global issues, the G7 members within the G20 were effectively trying to hijack the summit and make it entirely Ukraine-focused, which failed for the most part.

It was German Chancellor Olaf Scholz who had to admit that they had failed to isolate Russia at the G20 summit in Bali.



Lavrov got the full reception there--they even danced! But he is barred from the OSCE meeting in Lodz, Poland, which sounds fitting because:


...the organization was using high-resolution cameras, originally placed to conduct ceasefire monitoring, to relay DPR and LPR positions to the Kiev regime forces which then used the provided data to target or correct their artillery fire. The OSCE mission provided their observation data, captured by cameras and other monitoring equipment they installed over the years. In essence, OSCE was spying and effectively waging war on the side of the Neo-Nazi junta. To make matters worse, the provided monitoring data also included the movement of regular Russian military personnel in the early days of the special military operation.



After a weird attempt to "pressure" Ankara into letting Finland deploy "wall of nuclear missiles", without any proof, Turkey then got mad at the United States, because they must be behind the PKK attacks. Here is a brief timeline about how they responded to U. S. proxies--likely in areas that also contain U. S. forces:


On November 18, the United States Consulate General in Erbil, the capital of the Iraqi Kurdistan region, issued a security alert warning American citizens of a near Turkish military operation in northern Iraq and northern Syria.

18 November، 2022

Hasaka, SANA -The Council of Sheikhs and Notables of the Syrian Tribes and Clans in Hasaka, during a meeting in the city of Qamishli on Friday, renewed its rejection of the illegal presence of American and Turkish occupation on the Syrian lands in all its forms.

“The US presence in the region aims to control Syria’s resources and deprive the Syrians of them, and it is an illegitimate presence that aims to serve the interests of the Israeli enemy, strike civil peace, and to create discord among all sects. “the Council said in a statement.


Starting around the 20th:


“Turkey did not inform Russia in advance of conducting its air operation in Syria and Iraq, and this issue will be discussed during the Astana meeting,” Lavrentiev said in statements to reporters ahead of the start of the 19th international meeting on Syria in the Astana format.


The Russian envoy also noted that the “illegal” presence of US troops in Syria was significantly hindering stability in the region. He suggested that if Washington’s military contingent were to withdraw from the Northeastern part of the country, it would help to calm the situation.

Laverentyev’s comments came after Turkish warplanes carried out a series of strikes destroying 89 targets in Syria and Iraq on Sunday, which were reportedly linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and the YPG.



Kurdish Firat News Agency (ANF) reported that Ankara has once again carried out an air attack against the city of Ain al-Arab in northern Syria.

On Sunday, the Turkish army shelled several villages in the northern countryside of Aleppo and fired missile barrages at the positions of the so-called Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in the Al-Malikiyah area, north of Al-Hasakah, and Ain Issa area, north of Al-Raqqa.


In northern Syria, Turkish airstrikes targeted SDF-held areas in Aleppo, Raqqa and al-Hasakah, including the town of Kabani, the main stronghold of the Kurdish-led group.

The reporter of the Hawar News Agency, Essam Abdullah, was also among the casualties.

The Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Ground Force launched a fresh round of missile and drone attacks on the positions of separatist groups in Iraq’s Kurdistan Region.

Sabereen News reported that the attacks set off warning sirens at the United States’ Consulate in Erbil.




22 November، 2022

Hasaka, SANA- the US occupation forces brought out a new convoy of tanks loaded with oil from Syrian territory towards the Iraqi territories.

Local sources from al-Yarubiya in Hasaka countryside told SANA reporter that a convoy including 44 US occupation tanks laden with stolen Syrian oil left Hasaka province heading towards Iraq via the illegitimate al- Mahmoudiyah crossing over the past hours.


That last bit is not even news, but a nearly ten-year-old story that just keeps happening.


Doesn't always work:


Yemeni armed forces said they have successfully prevented a foreign [Greek] oil tanker from stealing the country's direly-needed oil by forcing the vessel away from a Southern port.

Saree reported the most recent of such incidents less than two weeks ago, when the country’s army troops and allied fighters managed to stop a foreign oil tanker in the waters off the energy-rich Southern Shabwah Province as it was trying to smuggle hundreds of thousands of barrels of fuel out of the impoverished Arab nation.

And an earlier case that came last month, saw the Yemeni military conducting a warning strike against a Saudi oil tanker that was likewise attempting to steal crude supplies from another Southern oil terminal.



In serious matters like executing POWs face down:


Ukrainian soldiers that executed 10 Russian prisoners of war belong to a brigade based in the city of Lvov that works closely with NATO, Russian broadcaster RT reported on Monday, citing a former Ukrainian soldier.

The soldier used to serve in this brigade, but switched to the Russian side after his father was executed by Ukrainians, the report said.

According to the former Ukrainian soldier, those deployed in the 80th brigade were taught to hate everything Russian long before the start of the special operation, RT said.

US troops, including forces with the Marine Corps, were involved in the training of the brigade, the soldier said.



And as sheer brutal honesty, speaking to Lexus and Vovan as Gabriel Macron, the Lavrov-excluding Polish president says:


“You think I need war with Russia? No, I do not want that. I do not want a war with Russia, and I am very careful, trust me, very careful,” Duda said, adding that he did not consider invoking article 5 of the NATO Treaty.

Thinking that Eugene Zellner or whatever his name is, is nuts:


“He says they are completely certain that it was a Russian missile launched by Russians. And he said that it could not have been a Ukrainian missile launch,” Duda added.

[loungelizard]

Posted by Mashika (here)
Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?


That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people …


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Ukraine can't build anything

You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...97882328535041

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...00094131814400

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...02053341388801

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...11368399740929

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...11931526942720

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...12986457313281

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...14316341248001

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status...15859379720192

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/ReadovkaWorld/st...11869149593600

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595377642303197184

[Ravenlocke]

https://www.rt.com/news/567011-cia-s...ruit-russians/

CIA reveals plan for disgruntled Russians

The CIA is interested in recruiting Russians “disgusted” with the conflict in Ukraine, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. The claim was made by deputy director of operations David Marlowe during a recent meeting at a Washington-area think-tank.

“We’re looking around the world for Russians who are as disgusted with that as we are,” Marlowe reportedly said, referring to the current events in Ukraine. “Because we’re open for business.”

Marlowe spoke “before a select audience of university faculty and staff” at George Mason University’s Hayden Center in Arlington, Virginia. The “CIA at 75” event was his first public appearance since he took office in June 2021, according to the WSJ. Though the event was held last week, the Hayden Center made the video of it public on Monday.

CIA Deputy Director for Analysis Linda Weissgold, described as responsible for producing finished intelligence reports for President Joe Biden and the rest of the US leadership, was also on the panel, along with the agency’s one-time acting director Michael Morrell.

Appointed by current CIA Director William Burns, Marlowe is an Arabic speaker whose expertise is in the Near and Middle East. According to him, Russian President Vladimir Putin “squandered” all of his power and influence by “invading” Ukraine in February. He described the conflict as a massive failure for Moscow and said it presented opportunities for Western intelligence agencies to recruit disaffected Russians.

Russia responds to US intelligence reported recruiting attempts READ MORE: Russia responds to US intelligence reported recruiting attempts
The announcement follows several instances during which Western intelligence agencies have tried to approach Russian personnel serving abroad, according to Moscow.

Last month, Moscow summoned the Dutch ambassador over reports that a British spy had tried to recruit a Russian military attache in The Hague. Earlier this year, the Kremlin denounced US attempts to suborn Russian diplomats as “very impudent behavior” and “unacceptable.”

The Hayden Center was set up in 2017 by retired US Air Force General Michael V. Hayden, several months after he became a CNN contributor. Hayden ran the National Security Agency (NSA) between 1999-2005 and the CIA from 2006-2009, amidst such controversies as the waterboarding torture of terrorism suspects and warrantless mass surveillance of Americans.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595383062262472704

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595379134078779397

https://www.rt.com/news/567009-croat...sident-troops/


Another EU country rejects training Ukrainian troops


Croatia can’t train Ukrainian troops on its territory as part of the EU aid program as that would be unconstitutional, President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday, responding to a request from the defense ministry in Zagreb.

“Given the justifiably great interest of the Croatian public in the announced participation of [Croatian military] members in the EU military assistance mission to Ukraine, and the unclear and unexplained circumstances that participation would entail, the Office of the President has to inform the public that the minister’s proposal is unfit to be considered,” Milanovic said, before explaining his reasoning.

Defense Minister Mario Banozic had sent Milanovic a draft proposal for Croatian participation in the European Union Military Assistance Mission (EUMAM), which reportedly involves training around 15,000 Ukrainian soldiers on the bloc's territory.

The Croatian constitution does not give Banozic grounds to make such a proposal, the president noted. Nor does it allow Ukrainian troops to set foot on Croatian soil, he argued, as Kiev is “not a member of any alliance” Zagreb belongs to and there are no international treaties otherwise regulating their status.

EU members to train Ukrainian military
EU members to train Ukrainian military
Milanovic’s public rejection of the EUMAM brief is the latest episode in the ongoing power struggle in Croatia. The social-democrat president, who has been in office since February 2020, has often been at odds with the legislature and the cabinet. The nationalist HDZ, which controls both, has been eager for Croatia to train Ukrainian troops. They also overruled Milanovic this spring, when he threatened to veto Sweden and Finland’s application to NATO in order to leverage concessions from the EU and the US.

The Croatian president’s criticism of EU sanctions against Russia – for being ineffective and backfiring on the bloc – has drawn the ire of Ukraine as well, which put him on its notorious “Peacemaker” blacklist, where those listed are regarded as 'enemies of Ukraine' and often subjected to threats and intimidation.

EUMAM was established on October 17 on the initiative of Czechia, currently presiding over the bloc. Nearby EU members Austria and Hungary have already said they will not participate in the mission either.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1595409055303929856

[shaberon]

Posted by loungelizard (here)

Posted by Mashika (here)
Ukraine can't build anything

You must know that statement isn’t true.

It is at least partly true, especially in terms of power plants.

Yes the statistics indicate some employment, in fact they make missiles, too. Actually, it should be among the most productive countries in Europe, with various costs, such as the repeal of most labor laws, and health guidelines against biolabs. For example, when you pay workers 40% less, it makes monetary figures look better for the companies. "Economics" doesn't quite tell the whole story of the actual society.

[Fellow Aspirant]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Fellow Aspirant (here)
I suspect it was programmed to gently land where they would see it to make sure the message was delivered.

Cruise missiles don't (and can't!) 'gently land'.

SpaceX boosters 'gently land'. Not military missiles.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Tkk9VIKWw2w

Uhhhh ... yup. Like I said two days ago. I thought it was amusing to stop in mid sentence, as though it had just occurred to me, but I gather you failed to see the humour, because you seem to have pounced on a perceived opportunity to expose my ignorance. Did you? Or were you adding to the fun? Fair enough.

Brian

[Isserley]

Posted by loungelizard (here)

Posted by Mashika (here)
Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?


That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people …


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Ukraine can't build anything

You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

I agree with lounguelizard.
I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine and I know quite a few "Ukros" ( I dont like that term!). It is incorrect to say that Ukrainians are incompetent because I know very well how capable they are. It is also rude because the majority of people are not to blame for what is happening. It's the fault of governments, freemasons, secret societies, satanists, psychopaths ... I also don't like spitting on westerners in "developed countries" and I emphasize once again that the majority people of western countries are not the same as the vocal minority LGBTQWTF+ / woke / BLM, or their demented leaders.
Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist.

[Mashika]

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by loungelizard (here)

Posted by Mashika (here)
Here's something to ponder about

See this ship? Looks familiar?


That's the Ukraina, a sister ship to the Moscow that was gifted to Ukraine by Russia. But Ukraine, being able to build ships back in the USSR times, and having the shipyards and everything necessary to complete it, just simply took it, and then let it rot for decades

Around 30 million dollars were needed to finish it, that's nothing. And yet, there it sits rotting away, how can a country not be able to spend 30 million dollars on this?

Ukraine can't build anything

They live out of hand outs and expect to be given everything for free and ready to go. Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve

Ukraine as a country inherited lots of resources, shipyards, know-how about lots of stuff that were the primary resources of the USSR, and they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row. Except sell it out for cheap to western "partners". And they continue to sell the country in pieces for very cheap because they have no clue how to progress on their own

They turned what could have been the third richest country in the world into a beggar than requires monthly handouts and has no production of any kind other than grains, they can't build any new tech, they can't research, they can't restore any industries they had, they do nothing but expect handouts

Research topic: How many billions did Russia give to Ukraine through the past 3 decades and what happened to that money and aid? And second, How is it that Ukraine is in a lot of debt, when Russia paid it all 30 years ago and helped them start fresh with lots of resources and zero debt? Why did it took so little time to go from being a potential most richest country in Europe to a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society?

Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries? Can Ukraine build nuclear power plants? No they can't, the ones they have are Soviet tech and they depended until very recently on Russia, but yet nuclear power was central in Ukraine, and they do have the know-how for sure

It's just that they just can't build anything, they went into full mediocre/lame mode and can't/won't even try to get out of it anymore.

They don't ask nicely, they demand handouts because they think they deserve them because they are "the master race"

Careful - people might actually begin to think you don’t like the Ukrainian people …


They live out of hand outs
they expect to be given everything for free and ready to go.
Anything that requires any effort is immediately put away or thrown to the curve
they completely did nothing with that for 30 years in a row
no production of any kind other than grains,
they can't build any new tech,
they do nothing but expect handouts
they have no clue how to progress on their own
a self-entitled rude/nasty beggar and decadent society
It's just that they just can't build anything,
they went into full mediocre/lame mode
They don't ask nicely,
they demand handouts because they think they deserve them

You sound as if you consider the entire population of Ukraine to be parasites - lazy, incompetent, conniving, devious, manipulative, ungrateful … and the implication is that they are unfit to run their own, independent country.
I obviously don’t see the situation from the perspective of Russian nationalism, but that comes over as very harsh. As I’m sure you know, many atrocities committed throughout history began with words.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Ukraine can't build anything

You must know that statement isn’t true.

A quick glance around the internet shows that the emerging Ukrainian economy had growth of 3.2% in 2020.
The value of Ukrainian exports was US$68.24 billion last year, comprising mainly food/agricultural products, metallurgy and machinery, traded with 217 countries.
There’s also a flourishing IT industry - Grammarly originates from Ukraine. https://huri.harvard.edu/blog/ukrain...cal-innovation.

Posted by Mashika (here)
Where's the space industry? The shipyards? The steel plants? The electronics/nuclear industries?

Space/aerospace industries?
There are several private and state aerospace companies (along with start-ups) in Ukraine developing and building spacecraft, aircraft, and parts.
Pivdenmash https://yuzhmash.com/en/
Kurs Orbital https://kursorbital.com
Flight Control Propulsion https://flightcontrolpropulsion.com
Orbit Boy https://www.orbitboy.rocks
Antonov State Enterprise https://www.antonov.com/en
Space Agency http://www.nkau.gov.ua
Promin https://prominaerospace.com

No shipbuilding?
Products sold by Ukrainian shipbuilding companies in 2018 totalled almost UAH 3 billion. This is by 32% more than in 2017.
Ship repairs brought in another UAH 501 million (+47% compared to 2017).
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/
According to Ukrsudprom, in 2017–2018, 25 vessels were built for the domestic market, and three exported. In the same period, 263 and 108 watercrafts were repaired respectively.
Over 5 thousand people work at shipbuilding companies, with almost 3 thousand engaged in shipbuilding and ship repairing.
There were 10 major shipbuilding companies operating in 2021, along with 2 design centres and one engine manufacturer.
https://gmk.center/en/posts/steel-fo...d-in-6-months/

Steel?
There is a list on Wiki of over 60 companies in Ukraine involved in the production of steel and cast iron, hardware and wire rope, pipes, and ore mining and enrichment,
and 24 more working in non-ferrous and alloy metallurgy.

Can't build new tech or do research?
The technology sector accounted for 4% of the country’s GDP and Ukraine was home to around 5,000 IT companies and 285,000 IT specialists.
There are over 300 universities in the country, all of which undertake research of various kinds.

Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”.


PS
Isn’t that the ship that was ordered by Russia and then it never took ownership or paid for it because of the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia didn’t want it, and neither did Ukraine - I don’t think it was “gifted”.
Eventually, Russia said it would take it - but only if it was free. Brazil seems to be the latest potential buyer.

I agree with lounguelizard.
I work for an Israeli company whose complete IT support is based in Ukraine and I know quite a few "Ukros" ( I dont like that term!). It is incorrect to say that Ukrainians are incompetent because I know very well how capable they are. It is also rude because the majority of people are not to blame for what is happening. It's the fault of governments, freemasons, secret societies, satanists, psychopaths ... I also don't like spitting on westerners in "developed countries" and I emphasize once again that the majority people of western countries are not the same as the vocal minority LGBTQWTF+ / woke / BLM, or their demented leaders.
Every time I enter this thread, I feel nauseous from the strong pro-Russian rhetoric based on Mashas thinking. Of course, I don't have to come here. I seem to be a bit of a masochist.

Lol, or perhaps you have been conditioned to feel wrong about anything that puts Ukraine into a bad light? And it bothers you internally even if you try to not feel that way

Maybe if you went to look more into this, you would find that yes, "The Ukros" are vicious beasts with no morals or ethics, capable of killing their own people at any time if needed, or if they can get a personal win out of it

I never said that i talk about the entire Ukrainan population, that's your programming talking to you. I have been very clear tons and tons of times explaining i talk about the people in control, the top levels and governments, not the general population. If you truly had read my posts you would know that

And i was going to explain why the points made above are misleading and incorrect, some in purpose and some because of lack of research (don't just go pick up whatever you find on the next first and use it as proof just because it tells you what you want to hear, specially if the source if a pro Ukrainian site or organization)

So anyways, i was going to explain that but honestly what a bore this is, i know you won't care to read or understand anything said and will just skip and look away. I'm not assuming anything because i can clearly see you have done that already in the past, if like you said, you have been reading this thread and somehow did not find all the evidence about the war crimes and other crimes committed by Ukraine at least a bit bothersome

If you don't have more clarity of mind, then you'll continue to be a play thing and a tool for the advancement of the UkroNazi's agenda

First:
There's a difference between having a factory production line that builds products designed by a foreign company, in which you have zero control over the design and specifications and just get used as a sweatshop because of cheap labor and taxes and corruption that allows to get most of that for free, and a real innovative industry that produces things no one else does and can self-substain or advance without having to license or sell itself to others for cheap

Without the outsourcing and cheap labor/little taxes offer, there's nothing going on in Ukraine, nothing new is built or designed by and for Ukrainians ,they just get orders from some foreign company and follow them to specs, and that's it

And second:
If you go do some actual research, you'll find that most of the land, and these companies, are owned by foreigners who got them for very cheap, and that the 'owner' in Ukraine is basically just a name lender to simplify the operations and protect the company. All the money that is supposed to enter Ukraine through those industries, is already money that goes into the pockets of foreigners

Check the farming land owners, the Ukrainians in control of the regions forced the original farm owners to sell for ridiculous cheap prices or face bankrupcy, then they sold the land to foreigners and pocketed the money. Now when you see that Ukraine is selling thousands of tons of grain of this or that kind, that money that is displayed as stats is only going through Ukraine because that's how they skip on paying taxes due to corruption, then it goes into the safe heaven account of westerners from the US/UK/EU and never benefits the Ukrainian population.

It is a scam, it is draining Ukraine out of its resources and moving the money to the western hidden owners

But of course this is not expressed on those misleading articles/stats. And whoever dares to speak up about it may die of suicide or find themselves investigated because of 'pro-russian' views, then killed anyway while 'resisting arrest'

For someone who likes street level Ukrainians, you sure help with their destruction by looking away to the reality of their country

The only thing i got from your post and the one quoted is that you guys have no clue about what' truly goes on in Ukraine, or why, or who is behind it, and just think that somehow this is a two sided thing in which either you are pro-russian or pro-ukrainian. And that's the simplified childish view that is very useful to lead the masses in whichever way they may be useful

Tomorrow you may be told that Ukraine should not be supported, once it is not useful anymore to the western 'partners', then everyone will condemn the entire country without any attempt at reasoning

Open your eyes, or not, it's up to you

[Mashika]

The Grammarly example is actually hilariously ironic, because it is the perfect example and proof of what i have been saying, quote by the founder of that company:

They started the project in the Western world because, according to Alex Shevchenko, "unlike Ukrainian universities, Western educational institutions are very open to new technologies." At the same time, Lytvyn and Shevchenko decided to target customers who use English in everyday life, rather than English learners

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammarly

If that doesn't say anything to you about the actual ground level situation over there in Ukraine, then nothing will ever do

[pounamuknight]

Posted by loungelizard (here)
Not bad for a people who “don’t build anything”

Ukraine has a profitable laundry sector as well

Imperial oligarchs love the Ukrainian laundry sector. Especially Lindsey Graham

From 2013-2018, the South Carolina oligarch pursed near $200k for his warmongery. His 2015 politcal pac pocketed $50k from Raytheon, Lockheed, Northrup, etc

No guesses who funded his business trip to Kyiv in 2016

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JeWHviwLMy8

But it was Julian Assange brilliantly summarized how the empire launders through war

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_IGU_7alJ80