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Thread: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    I write this from personal thought, observation and my intuition. Not from scientific research

    I have been thinking hard on why some people cannot grasp alt thinking, also known as conspiracy thinking.

    I have argued and tangled with so called smart, educated friends and people who cannot in any way see the possibilities that I so naturally see. I totally get their point of view and where it comes from, but they cannot see mine. It's absolutely driving me crazy how a person cannot see what is so obvious to me, or that it could even be a possible reality.

    So more and more Im thinking perhaps this is genetic. Like the way nature will throw out a brown polar bear every now and then for a changing environment, has natured wired certain people to think the opposite of the average?
    Were we born with these pre wired traits?
    And if so, is it pointless to try to convince anyone of anything?

    Could this be why we scratch our heads in frustration why some people cannot see what is seemingly obvious? Is it prewired and cannot be learned?

    Thoughts on this?

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Yeah, the brown polar bear ...I was the odd one out in my family.

    I am much more likely to question than "go along" and then I stand alone. But that is ok, because when the dust clears we will all be here ready to carry on.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Yes Patient I as well. But why and where did it start? Can you remember a catalyst to start you not believing in the main stream stories about events happening?
    For me, maybe it was JFK, I was 10 when he was assassinated . But it could even be further back for me . Catholic school and going to Church and watching my Dad slip out of the church early each time. If this was Gods holy house and he was communing with God, why was it such a burden to endure and him being in a hurry to get out. Ahh yes, the Football game.

    now that I think of it, It was Catholic school that made me see a con job in action.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Tom Bearden describes things in these terms : scientific reality is to do with things perceptible by everyone. Subjective reality (possibly hallucination) is to do with things perceptible by one person. In between are things perceptible by more than one person but not everyone. This grey area is his definition of the paranormal.

    I see this grey area as a kind of inverse Schrodinger’s cat situation. Schrodinger’s cat is both dead and alive because it is perceptible by no one at all. The outcome is dependent upon an outside event: the decay or otherwise of a radioactive particle. It is a scientist’s thought experiment where science decides: the sane individual ‘follows the science’. The situation I am referring to is one that leans more towards the subjective: the outcome is more a matter of personal choice, up for grabs. One person needs to share their vision until it becomes perceptible by more than one person and eventually by enough people to make a difference in perception; and then the science will follow. It is a kind of electoral process that ends up in general acclaim, the way popular popes are sometimes elected.

    The idea of anything being blindingly obvious may be an oversimplification. When Newton explained that the Moon was falling to the Earth, it was blindingly obvious that the Moon was not going anywhere. He had to offset gravity with centrifugal force, so what you actually have is a Schrodinger’s cat of a Moon, at once falling to the Earth and spinning off into space. The difference in this instance between a persuasive scientist and a crazy is the complexity whereby two wrongs make a right.

    Now let’s suppose for the sake of argument that Isaac Newton only discovered gravity and some other guy, Jacob Notwet, theorized centrifugal force applied to heavenly bodies. You would then have two crazy scientists with palpably false theories that contradicted each other to boot – until someone came along to unify the two. This would seem to be where science is at, with relativity and quantum mechanics at loggerheads searching for a theory of everything (TOE).

    Meanwhile, the Moon does some crazy stuff that even today only amateur astronomers and astrologers can keep up with. Low in the east, high in the west, or nowhere to be seen, most of us know these things happen, but not precisely when, where, why or how. Some people don’t even lose any sleep when it is full.

    It strikes me that alternative research exemplifies this process in spades – nay in bulldozers It will remain “conspiracy theory” to be rejected as a load of crazy self-contradictory BS until someone presents a bigger-picture view acceptable to the many. I ask myself, am I adding to the BS, or to the bigger picture?
    Take the lunatic behaviour of the current virus. Whether a medical issue or a military one (bioweapon), the blindingly obvious negative is that it kills; and the blindingly obvious ‘positive’ is that while it kills, less of the healthier population are dying from road accidents, air pollution etc. What the overall position is, no-one seems to know. Likewise the issue over the vaccine – either the virus weaponized against itself or the virus weaponized against the patient – is moot. When it comes to a synthesis, we need to be ready for something hybrid. I should like to know in advance how members would feel in the event of the overall health of humanity and the planet improving considerably and at the same time malfeasance being proven at the highest levels. This is the sort of contradiction that is pretty much to be expected.

    What is not being factored into the calculations is… the drip effect of decades of alternative thinking. This is what is missing in current talk of end-of-the-world/Armageddon scenarios that have passed their sellby date. The nuclear holocaust scenario is already several decades in the past, meaning that somehow things are already getting better. Likewise, a putative return of fascism may be outmoded thinking. In a storm, you count the time between thunder claps: they get closer, until the tide turns they get further apart, and despite the occasional rumble you know the worst is over. Over the last 150 years, the storm of war has been receding for half of that time. During that time, we have been taking greater and greater exception to smaller and smaller things. I forget which scientist said that opposition to a theory dies off of the people die off. I can’t speak to individual cases, but I would expect that some people, especially the younger generation, consider we are already where we wanted to be. It takes time for ideas to sink in.


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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Similar origin story - first it was abusive-to-rational-thought Southern Baptist Christianity which lead me to fully start thinking for myself , later the JFK killing lead me to formal conspiracy research, but before that wake-up call it was psychedelic experiences which repaired my spiritual relationship with the All One after organized religion had so damaged that aspect of me earlier in life.

    But some personal aspect was genetic or soul-memory related, as my parents said I arrived questioning everything all the time trying to understand this crazy incarnation, certainly compared to my siblings who were much more accepting of it all.
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 6th April 2021 at 19:05.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Yes Doug, I believe you are right. That's almost exactly my thoughts too.
    In fact I've 99% given up on trying to convince people of anything.
    Even the so-called smart, educated ones don't seem capable of critical thinking.

    I like to think that I'm prepared to admit when I'm wrong, and change my views if I'm shown a better or more correct idea.
    (Not saying I'm perfect, or right about things).
    However, as you say, having this questioning approach (especially when it involves alternative subjects e.g. UFOs & ETs) does tend to put us in an isolated minority. - So be it.

    Is it a "Genetic" trait ? I think it may well be so.
    I must say that I've also always wondered why very, very few other people seem to grasp what appears to me to be obvious possibilities.
    I've now virtually given up on trying to point things out to other people, and have resigned myself to spending my remaining life (pushing 80 now) as the "weird one". That's OK, but it does seem a little odd that there are so few of "us", compared to the overwhelming majority of the sheep.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Yes Patient I as well. But why and where did it start? Can you remember a catalyst to start you not believing in the main stream stories about events happening?
    For me, maybe it was JFK, I was 10 when he was assassinated . But it could even be further back for me . Catholic school and going to Church and watching my Dad slip out of the church early each time. If this was Gods holy house and he was communing with God, why was it such a burden to endure and him being in a hurry to get out. Ahh yes, the Football game.

    now that I think of it, It was Catholic school that made me see a con job in action.
    Yes I can at the age of eight, remember being totally incensed by the idea that people got mortgages and spent the rest of there life paying it back.its mad generation after generation buying the same damn house over and over again your all mad.or the time I told all my friends if they believe in god I'll invent my own and bring him to life with the power of belief.
    So I think your born with it ,a different way of looking at things

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Hi Doug,
    first I want to say I love your paintings. Especially the whistle blowers. Great Piece. I think that should be hung up in every waiting room
    To your question, it´s not genetically. You just have evolved further then them. You are able to put yourselves in their shoes and see the world through their perspective, they can not (so far). If they evolve they will at some point. But dont beat yourself up about it, you cannot force somebody to wake up or evolve, they have to want that first.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Many a great comment and observation here. Thanks. And UZN, thanks for the compliment on my work. This painting below titled The Science Times, expressed the idea that you could be one thing and also explore many other thoughts and avenues. it doesn't mean one has to be disavowed to entertain the other. Its a big continual question mark.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	THE SCIENCE TIMES copy.png
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ID:	46517

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Partly genetics and partly degree of conciosness evolution. I have six siblings I must say we all think critically. But when it comes to covid scam and the likes, all of them were believing the lies. Then one by one they went to my side of narrative except for one.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Maybe this is slightly off topic? Sam Vaknin wonders (unhappily) if there is already a 2.1 humanity? A mechanical quality already? He observes emotionless people.


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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Yes Patient I as well. But why and where did it start? Can you remember a catalyst to start you not believing in the main stream stories about events happening?
    For me, maybe it was JFK, I was 10 when he was assassinated . But it could even be further back for me . Catholic school and going to Church and watching my Dad slip out of the church early each time. If this was Gods holy house and he was communing with God, why was it such a burden to endure and him being in a hurry to get out. Ahh yes, the Football game.

    now that I think of it, It was Catholic school that made me see a con job in action.
    Everyone's response was great, but to answer your specific question I think I was always this way. School was easy at first, but once I got to the point where teachers couldn't satisfy my questions with their limited answers and my thoughts continued with more questions - well, I just kind of floated along and chose not to rock the boat too much so that I wasn't a problem.

    I am gonna push it a bit here - I think we are an evolved being. We see the truth in many things and we are alienated to a degree because of it. Yes, we do alienate ourselves at times because to continually try to make a person understand something that they are just not made to understand is not productive.

    I have become patient.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    It seems to be a different level of sensitivity and awareness and it’s a sliding scale. On one end we have people who were born like this and on the other end we have the people who are demanding vaccines to stop the lockdowns and see anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine, regardless of reason, as dangerous, selfish people.

    I was born like this. As an example, I remember when I saw the tiger behind a chainlink fence at the zoo when I was a toddler. I was so blown away that I could get so close to it if I went right up to the fence. I couldn’t believe my luck so I checked and looked around at the other people there to see if I was really allowed to get that close and saw a group of people closer to the fence than where my mother had stopped, but they were still not close to the fence. I remember thinking that group of people was no indication of how close we can go because they just follow each other’s lead.

    I was aware of how it is here without knowing it or thinking about it but recall a perspective of awareness when I look back. I was pure, didn’t have any problem with judgement, it just was the way it was here for me. It’s difficult to describe in words without charging it with judgemental terms, so I can’t relay the innocence I had about it but I felt that people were shells. Like the roaring flame of humanity was turned right down to a pilot light in people. They felt like a shell, sadness, emptiness, and as an effect they seemed dim, as in thoughtless and not very intelligent and there was a coldness about them. I just accepted this and did my best to help where I could. Little things like not confronting them with an honesty I sensed they couldn’t handle, instead I just didn’t talk much at all, ever. Stuff like that.

    As I grew up and learned more about the world it made sense to me that the world would be this miserable in all the ways it is because I just saw it as the logical result of shells of people.

    Yesterday I spent a good amount of time reading through tweets in a hashtag about the COVID passports in England. It was truly beautiful to me to see all the people waking up just now. The party line has finally become SO obscenely and obviously unintelligent and contradictory that many people are having that moment of “wait up, this doesn’t make sense, there has to be more to this” moment.

    So while some are born just seeing it and others are completely towing the line, there’s a whole sliding scale of people in between. Many more will wake up but that moment of becoming aware of the nonsense varies, and the chances of them listening to sanity before that moment of questioning it for themselves is unlikely. I think the most effective approach to waking people up is to point out contradictions in the party line itself but it’s a sort of hypnotism they need to snap out of themselves.

    So with the question of genetics, I don’t know, we’d have to know if and how genetics plays a role in awareness. The answer to those sort of questions is usually a mix of nature and nurture. I am certain that the difference is sensitivity and awareness though.

    I recall through my more pure toddler perspective that very few people were running on more than a pilot light of humanity, so few that I’m really encouraged to see how many people are actually waking up. If someone had explained to me back then what would be happening in 2021, and asked me how many people would reject mandatory vaccines, my answer would have been almost nobody.
    Last edited by Innocent Warrior; 7th April 2021 at 06:57. Reason: Typos
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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Every soul has it's own life path, it's just the way it is.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    What is kind of odd, weird and fun at the same time I have had similar thoughts as some other here...

    I discussed with my spouse about making our own religion for fun - to see how far we could take it etc. because we saw the silliness of it.

    I had an instance with a tiger in a zoo. I thought how bored and odd for him to be stuck there. He was leaning against the fence barrier in a kind of a daze so I stepped past the barrier and poked him gently in the side. He turned and looked at me but there was no sense of annoyance - just kind of like " oh hey, yeah I'm bored, but you can see that."

    And the real-estate market. What a mess. Nothing needs to be said about it.

    But we can find like minded people. There are more for sure. So many have probably given up hope but are sometimes emboldened and lift up for bit. They just need help to keep their head up and allow some of the shackles to fall away for good.
    Last edited by Patient; 7th April 2021 at 12:46.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    I remember being very very young and watching on TV with my parents, "The Reincarnation of Peter Proud" and it was a light going off! I was alternative all the way after that movie!
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    I remember being very very young and watching on TV with my parents, "The Reincarnation of Peter Proud" and it was a light going off! I was alternative all the way after that movie!
    Alternative - a category where many of us have found comfort to know that there are more like us.

    I think mine started the first few times I had to go a get my hair cut as a child. Seeing myself in the mirror as the barber tried to make me look like everyone else, I thought - stop, I am not like everyone else. Why are they doing this?

    I hated clothes shopping - again attempting to make a person fit in. I recall my parents being so frustrated because anything that looked like everything else I wanted no part of. I remember one time very young, I found one of those corner spots that had black light posters and weird t-shirts. I wanted the one with the mushrooms and little elves. When I got older I realized that it was representing magic mushrooms and my parents had no idea - but neither did I at the time. I wonder what some people must have thought.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    It has not escaped me that my earlier post (#4) did not directly address the possible genetic component in all this, and indeed appeared to turn it into an entirely intellectual issue. I did however present my view as a process, as I always try to do: there is a time component involved – that is what the idea of change means. Genetics is also a process: we talk in the very long term about evolution, but what about the shorter term? The human genome is not something in any way fixed. I think evolution is progressing in two ways, both amounting to speeding up more perhaps than we realize.

    If you take a synchronic approach, or approximately so – the human genome at one particular time period – then in recent times what used to be separate races have coalesced in short order into a global melting-pot. Strangers who were not supposed to meet began mating and the world is now full of their offspring. In other worlds, alien genomes were intermingling in ways that normal evolution would have taken millennia to achieve. This affects nearly everyone, since, instead of marrying the girl next door, more and more people are seeking partners further and further afield, with genomes potentially more and more different from their own. In other words, the human species has grown from a single family or several families to a single huge community with an abundance of homegrown aliens. Politically incorrect alert: as an extreme case, you might imagine an Inuit and a Congolese producing offspring ranging from those sensitive to extremes of heat and cold to those tolerant of extremes of heat and cold. In such a case, Darwinian survival of the fittest leans towards those with greater adaptability. But then the genome itself is politically incorrect: how often do we hear about people discovering they have origins directly opposed to their own fanatical ideologies?

    Reverting to a diachronic approach, if there is a genetic component to the acceptance of alternative views, then that is going to take a generation or three: which is at any rate a much shorter time span than the thousands of years we read about in the textbooks. I don’t recall which scientist said that for a theory to become mainstream, its opponents had to die off. I would add that in that time its proponents are also going to die off. In that case, the only solution would seem to be for independent minds to have kids, to boost nature with nurture, then step out of the way and let them get on with it. Isn’t that how it has always been? There is an impatience these days for everything to be sorted out before we are gone. Not going to happen, or not necessarily, maybe because the solution is beyond our ken. Ask Moses, who died before ever reaching the promised land. From what I’ve seen of the next generation(s), we have nothing to worry about; but if we are thinking we have got to get the job done ourselves, no way. The old are looking younger longer than ever before – and getting older quicker.

    Because, you see, you are faced with an insoluble paradox: the brighter we grow, the stupider we get. To resolve a paradox, you need an extra dimension, which might be in this case: the older we grow (the nearer to the grave), the smarter we grow, and yet the further we fall behind (gradually exiting life). Alternatively, approaching the crest of a sine wave, it is certain that the closer we get, the harder the going. Which is possibly counter-intuitive for mountaineers, because upward progress is slower as the curve flattens out. It is ego wanting to reach the mountaintop, but the ‘mountaintop’ is really only another base camp. Time to let go.


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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    The video above with Sam Vaknin was absolutely materful. That man has a SOUL and a MIND that I could LOVE no matter what he looked like. He is also good looking in my opinion. I make a point of this because, unfortunately, the men I have met appeared to have little to nothing of either, or were subject to life circumstances which would not allow their development. The young in body and mind are suffering from a lack of life and intellectual experience and, thus, are prone to making all the wrong choices. Against them is a world in which OTHERS have organized life in such a way that does not allow them foreknowledge to make wiser choices. You cannot choose something you do not know exists, which is required to enable you to have a satisfying and happy future. In the days of farm life, communities shared a hard but predictable life with people of similar backgrounds and beliefs. They met each other at church, married young and set out to live a predictable life. Today you are met with obstacles of every kind, mostly unpleasant, and your future is unstable, leaving little or no room for the old fashioned family life.

    In my opinion, this has all been deliberately planned by the NAZI Genocidalists, who have destroyed our English grammar, arithmetic, medical and financial systems to suit their EVIL plan of human extermination to make way for themselves only. It appears they are also behind the horrors of human trafficing which is only the tip of the iceberg. Tie the Reptilians Eating Humans to the story of human carcasses on meat hooks beneath Antarctica, millions of children in tunnels awaiting ill use and being canabalised, to the Nazi underground bases in Antarctica, their collaboration with the Reptillians in the Secret Space Program using kidnapped humans for slave labor here and in space, their ownership of stolen European Gold in WWII which has been used to create approximately 750 corporations which now own and control everything, including Rockefeller's Think Tanks leading to Operation Lockstep (human genocidal plot currently being executed); and you have your answer to just about everything. Oh! and last but not least, the Nazi's now want to be forgiven if we will not punish them and proceed to a new free world which they have done their level best to permanently deny us. Screw that! Give them all to the Reptilians to dine on. The Nazi's are unable to keep any deal because they have no SOULS. That is why they want to kill us off and TURN THOSE THEY CHOOSE INTO HEARTLESS ROBOTS LIKE THEMSELVES USING FAKE VACCINE INJECTIONS. Break up the corporations, reorganize their production, destroy the bankers as they presently exist, and create a new free world of life and exploration for us all, instead of endless slavery and death.
    Re-educate all, showing what lies they have been taught and what is the truth about the world. Especially, show people the difference between the SUBJECT AND THE OBJECT IN A SENTENCE, etc.

    Doug, I love you. You set up the fire wood so that I can light it.

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    Default Re: Is Alternative think rooted in Genetics ?

    P.S. I did not change your subject. If you knew who my great x 5 grandmother was you would understand that Genetics certainly plays a big part. However, my brother is a dolt who does not read books, so genes do not necessarily work the way we think.

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