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Thread: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Yup, the first man in space was quite possibly Vladimir Ilyushin. The theory went, that similar to any revolutionary new prototype, it had to have a test pilot. Ilyushin was that test pilot. If the mission went horribly wrong and he never returned from space it would severely embarrass the Soviet Union, so the mission was kept secret. As it was a success, Gagarin had the green light for the first publicly disclosed manned space flight. This is an old, very old conspiracy theory that has never gone away. Unfortunately it's difficult to prove if not impossible, but a 'trial run' prior to Gagarin does make a lot of sense.
    Yes. Here you go. It's interesting to look up the many articles about this. I'm reasonably convinced the story is true, and that the reason why Ilyushin was never paraded to the world is because he was quite badly injured in the landing.



    Here's the exact transcript, as some of the text is a little hard to read:

    ~~~

    Soviet astronaut circles the earth three times

    THE FIRST MAN IN SPACE

    Back alive — but suffering from effects of his flight

    THE Soviet Union has launched the first man into space and
    brought him back to earth alive, according to well-informed
    sources here.

    The astronaut, said to be the test-pilot son of a top-ranking
    Soviet aircraft designer, is understood to be suffering after-effects
    from his flight.


    Top aviation medical
    specialists and leading
    space scientists are in
    constant attendance.

    They are keeping him
    under close observation.


    An official announcement re-
    garding the flight, said to have
    taken place on Friday, is ex-
    pected tomorrow.

    The astronaut is said to have
    completed three orbits around
    the earth some 200 miles out in
    space before returning to earth
    in response to a signal from
    ground-station.

    EAGER WAIT

    His flight was made in a space
    vehicle weighing about 4½ tons
    of the type previously tested in
    space flight with dogs.

    The city has for the last 24
    hours been waiting with baited
    breath in expectation of the
    official announcement that the
    Union has won the space race.

    All day Muscovites have been
    keeping an ear cocked at their
    radios.

    Evening papers were eagerly
    snatched up and scanned for
    confirmation — or refutal — of
    the many rumours circulating
    amoung journalistic and scienti-
    fic circles in the city.
    I remember being on 6th grade and casually mentioning that i did not think he was the "first one", because how did they know it would even work and they needed to do a few tests before, no chance they would get to fail in front of the entire world. I almost got thrown out the window lol.

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    United States Avalon Member Strat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    They didn't have to mention the first person in space, yet they did. One would think the dumb Americans would've left that fact out if they were attempting to ignore it in the first place. Surely they're just too dumb and we're not looking into this through a skewed lens because the US is evil and all other countries are kind hearted and aren't seeking world domination.

    I agree the, honorable Russians liberated much of Europe. Poland, Estonia et al are stoked about that.

    I'm tapping out before I have an aneurysm.

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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    They didn't have to mention the first person in space, yet they did. One would think the dumb Americans would've left that fact out if they were attempting to ignore it in the first place. Surely they're just too dumb and we're not looking into this through a skewed lens because the US is evil and all other countries are kind hearted and aren't seeking world domination.

    I agree the, honorable Russians liberated much of Europe. Poland, Estonia et al are stoked about that.

    I'm tapping out before I have an aneurysm.
    That's part of the insult Mentioning it casually but leaving out 'who' he was, because is not 'relevant' or 'important' enough

    It's a clear political insult for any Russian, maybe in the US is not seen like that but it is, trust me

    Whataboutisms lol, those are always funny

    I'm very well aware of what happened back then, i won't deny history, it happened and it will stay that way and it would be bad to hide it or pretend it did not went the way it went

    In that same way, why are people offended by this? So defensive that it almost sounds like they angry about being called out

    If i were to speak about 'what about this' then we could go into posting a list of the 180 or so countries the US has destabilized since WW2 ended, those are also not very happy about it, but what about it? It has nothing to do with this thread. But the way the US is handling things these days is shameful and without any honor.

    So excuse me for pointing out the truth, whatever happened in WW2 did not happen on our time, but this is happening right now, we can't change the past, but can you change the present or future? Or do you like and agree to revision history in very immature ways?

    Like i said, on the Russian government there's that internal joke, and i know it is also mentioned in other places, that the US government is managed by 3 kids stacked on each other on a trench coat. There's a reason that joke is thrown around, even by some US allies

    Are we're still on 8th grade? Meet me at the tennis court after school

    See how immature i sounded there? Imagine if i were to pretend i don't know your name, just when i know you for a while, but we are talking in a group of friends and i say "oh dude, what's your name, you in the white shirt", clearly is not cool, or mature at all, it was done on purpose.

    I feel like you are taking it very personal, my comments were directed towards the US government, not the US people. I don't even think those two groups are the same, and there's been some time since the US last cared what the US people needed, it doesn't represent them, as far as i can see

    But what do i know
    Last edited by Mashika; 14th April 2021 at 00:36.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    Quote Posted by Strat (here)
    It's #humanspaceflight day not #firstmaninspace day. I join in on the celebration of US astronauts and I hope it inspires other US children to follow their dreams to become astronauts. Call me weird, call me what you wish.

    EDIT: Don't read too far into this.... I've had a rough few days and I get ****ty so my apologies. I stand by what I said but I don't mean to get pissy. Much love
    Hahah! No issue of course with you feeling ****sy about something ... there's nothing wrong with a good debate or disagreement or presenting a personal insight on an issue. I just think that honouring people on the honourable day a certain man was honoured for without mentioning his name is a bit of dick move ... I think you have to agree a little...

    Honouring other space people is awesome ... it's the specifics of the tweet is all. My 2 cents.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    The Russians did not exactly liberate Europe.

    The war began on 1 September 1939 when Hitler invaded and occupied half of Poland, and the Soviet Union invaded and occupied the other half of Poland. The purpose of the war called by Britain and France two days later was to eject only the Germans because it was not a military possibility to defeat both Germany and the Soviet Union in collusion. If the Soviet Union had not signed a pact in support of Hitler in August 1939, the Nazi Government would almost certainly not have gone into Poland.

    The Soviets made a great sacrifices for the Allied victory admittedly. However, the reason why certain countries do not attend the May 9 Victory celebrations is because the following countries were forced to accept Soviet control of their Government without free elections for many, many years, and the tyranny was seen clearly in the West when Hungary and Czechoslovakia attempted to get the Soviet occupiers to kindly go. All the Soviets really did was replace the German occupation with their own system run by themselves.

    The countries of which I write are: Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Albania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Rumania and East Germany (forty years after the defeat).

    This is history. We must state the facts honestly. Do not misunderstand me. I am not anti-Russian. Today in my opinion the country is run admirably well.
    Last edited by Mecklenburger; 14th April 2021 at 23:45.

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    Avalon Member Mashika's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's celebrate the first human in space by pretending he did not exist

    Quote Posted by Mecklenburger (here)
    The Russians did not exactly liberate Europe.

    The war began on 1 September 1939 when Hitler invaded and occupied half of Poland, and the Soviet Union invaded and occupied the other half of Poland. The purpose of the war called by Britain and France two days later was to eject only the Germans because it was not a military possibility to defeat both Germany and the Soviet Union in collusion. If the Soviet Union had not signed a pact in support of Hitler in August 1939, the Nazi Government would almost certainly not have gone into Poland.

    The Soviets made a great sacrifices for the Allied victory admittedly. However, the reason why certain countries do not attend the May 9 Victory celebrations is because the following countries were forced to accept Soviet control of their Government without free elections for many, many years, and the tyranny was seen clearly in the West when Hungary and Czechoslovakia attempted to get the Soviet occupiers to kindly go. All the Soviets really did was replace the German occupation with their own system run by themselves.

    The countries of which I write are: Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Albania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Rumania and East Germany (forty years after the defeat).

    This is history. We must state the facts honestly. Do not misunderstand me. I am not anti-Russian. Today in my opinion the country is run admirably well.
    Like i said, that was then and this is now, we are not responsible for things that happened almost a century ago, and that was the USSR, i'm Russian, i was never a Soviet citizen in the first place

    So bringing up stuff like that to escape the current immature attitude of the US government seems complete out of place, sorry but yeah it sounds like that 'but what about this' thing or 'whataboutism' as we call it on the net

    Incidentally, there's a bit more to the deal with Russia with Germany, first, the UK and France and others made a deal with Germany, to not get involved in the war that was about to begin, then they delivered their side of the deal, so that they would not be affected by the coming war, see here:

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...man%20conquest

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

    But that part is as usual left out, "for reasons" we all know

    This happened:
    Quote An emergency meeting of the main European powers — not including Czechoslovakia, although their representatives were present in the town, or the Soviet Union, an ally to both France and Czechoslovakia — took place in Munich, Germany, on 29–30 September 1938. An agreement was quickly reached on Hitler's terms, being signed by the leaders of Germany, France, Britain, and Italy.
    They delivered the country to Hitler, so they would not be attacked themselves, so excuse me if i call hypocrisy on the now high moral ground they take when revising history these days

    And there's more info about why Russia pacted with Germany, basically the USSR government tried to talk to the UK and France and they were ignored and told to go away, because those countries already had a pact with Hitler. So Russia made the exact same pact. But that's not how some people want to remember history of course

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Ger...ggression-Pact
    Quote The Soviet Union had been unable to reach a collective-security agreement with Britain and France against Nazi Germany, most notably at the time of the Munich Conference in September 1938. By early 1939 the Soviets faced the prospect of resisting German military expansion in eastern Europe virtually alone, and so they began searching about for a change of policy. On May 3, 1939, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin fired Foreign Minister Maksim Litvinov, who was Jewish and an advocate of collective security, and replaced him with Vyacheslav Mikhaylovich Molotov, who soon began negotiations with the Nazi foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop. The Soviets also kept negotiating with Britain and France, but in the end Stalin chose to reach an agreement with Germany. By doing so he hoped to keep the Soviet Union at peace with Germany and to gain time to build up the Soviet military establishment, which had been badly weakened by the purge of the Red Army officer corps in 1937. The Western democracies’ hesitance in opposing Adolf Hitler, along with Stalin’s own inexplicable personal preference for the Nazis, also played a part in Stalin’s final choice
    So as you said

    Quote We must state the facts honestly
    And i have found very few of that in the past 6 years i've been learning western culture. There was even someone who told me and bragged that the US had been first to reach Germany and to kill Hitler, and that the USSR was later later on, and that WW2 ended with the Atomic bombs on Japan, regardless of the truth that it had ended before, that year, and that Japan did not surrender even after the bombs were dropped but only chose to after they learned the other allied countries were preparing to invade, because a group of diplomats from Russia was sent to Japan to advice them to surrender. By the way it was a surrender to the US, not to Russia, we're still at war technically and up until this very moment i'm writing this
    https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk...ond-world-war/
    Quote However, on 8 August 1945, two days after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and the day before the second bomb fell on Nagasaki, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan. The news of impending war with the Soviet Union sent shockwaves through Japanese policy makers: just before he left Moscow for the Conference, Stalin had received a personal message from the Japanese Emperor, asking him to act as intermediary between Japan and the United States. The Soviet betrayal was an important factor in forcing Japan to surrender.
    Those things are 'history' and facts, with dates and places where it happened, and yet here we are discussing issues not related to Yuri Gagarin being ignored as an insult to Russia, because "of reasons" as i said before

    All i said is fully documented and there is paper trail and plenty of evidence of all of it, so it's not that "i want my country to come up on top" or that i'm trying to rewrite history in any way

    That's why i said that more honor should be displayed with these things

    ETA: Also see this, the 'thing no one talks about'
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

    So, pretending that didn't happen? Not very honorable, and has there ever been a speech where the US president or anyone, asked for forgiveness about that? They knew and they allowed it to happen

    But this thread was not about that, if you would like to see or talk more about it, i actually had a thread last year about when the US president rewrote history to exclude the USSR from WW2 victory day "by mistake"
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...22-Victory-Day

    Last edited by Mashika; 15th April 2021 at 03:55.

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