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Thread: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    This is a serious thread. For years I've pondered why (e.g.) someone with a PhD and a measured IQ of 180 might be just really dumb and unaware outside of their specialist field. We see this ALL the time.

    It's not about EQ (Emotional Intelligence) or SQ (Spiritual Intelligence). I think it's about the predominant vulnerability of almost all humans, whatever their IQ, EQ, SQ, age, culture, or level of education, to be victims of belief.

    And there may be two components to that:
    1. The susceptibility to being initially influenced to form a belief.
    2. The resistance to letting go of it once it's entrenched.
    A high intellect can paradoxically be a handicap, as extremely clever people are often very skilled at self-justifying whatever beliefs they have. A smart and articulate person will defend their beliefs strongly, self-reinforcing all the time.

    I'd be most interested in other members' views (and experiences!) about this.

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    Avalon Member mountain_jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I was strongly influenced by the writings of Robert Anton Wilson in this area, and ways to become aware of one's Reality Tunnel self-programming and one's ongoing maintenance of one's cherished beliefs...

    So much so that I carry around a quote from RAW in my sig file here.

    Quote I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson
    https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/...-wilson-quotes



    My main tool in becoming aware of these programs and attempts to reprogram myself with more openness to evaluating things in an ongoing fashion were his concepts and methodologies and psychedelic experiments in my younger days.





    https://www.goodreads.com/author/quo...t_Anton_Wilson


    Quote Robert Anton Wilson quotes

    “Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger: Die letzten Geheimnisse der Illuminaten oder An den Grenzen des erweiterten Bewusstseins

    “The Bible tells us to be like God, and then on page after page it describes God as a mass murderer. This may be the single most important key to the political behavior of Western Civilization.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “...an optimistic mind-set finds dozens of possible solutions for every problem that the pessimist regards as incurable.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger: Die letzten Geheimnisse der Illuminaten oder An den Grenzen des erweiterten Bewusstseins


    “...when dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases. ”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “We all see only that which we are trained to see.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Masks of the Illuminati


    “In order to eat, you have to be hungry. In order to learn, you have to be ignorant. Ignorance is a condition of learning. Pain is a condition of health. Passion is a condition of thought. Death is a condition of life.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Leviathan


    “under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “In conclusion, there is no conclusion. Things will go on as they always have, getting weirder all the time.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “...reality is always plural and mutable.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “We look for the Secret - the Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir of the Wise, Supreme Enlightenment, 'God' or whatever...and all the time it is carrying us about...It is the human nervous system itself.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger Volume I: Final Secret of the Illuminati


    “Human beings live in their myths. They only endure their realities.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “Is," "is," "is"—the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything "is"; I only know how it seems to me at this moment.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Nature's God


    “Horror is the natural reaction to the last 5,000 years of history.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Cosmic Trigger 2: Down to Earth


    “It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminati Papers


    “Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and ‘progress,’ everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man’s refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde truly said, ‘Disobedience was man’s Original Virtue.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “The normal is that which nobody quite is. If you listen to seemingly dull people very closely, you'll see that they're all mad in different and interesting ways, and are merely struggling to hide it.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Masks of the Illuminati


    “Human society as a whole is a vast brainwashing machine whose semantic rules and sex roles create a social robot.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising


    “The fear of death is the beginning of slavery.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Golden Apple


    “When we meet somebody whose separate tunnel-reality is obviously far different from ours, we are a bit frightened and always disoriented. We tend to think they are mad, or that they are crooks trying to con us in some way, or that they are hoaxers playing a joke. Yet it is neurologically obvious that no two brains have the same genetically-programmed hard wiring, the same imprints, the same conditioning, the same learning experiences. We are all living in separate realities. That is why communication fails so often, and misunderstandings and resentments are so common. I say "meow" and you say "Bow-wow," and each of us is convinced the other is a bit dumb.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, Prometheus Rising

    “Anyone in the United States today who isn't paranoid must be crazy.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminati Papers


    “The future is up for grabs. It belongs to any and all who will take the risk and accept the responsibility of consciously creating the future they want.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson


    “Intelligence is the capacity to receive, decode and transmit information efficiently. Stupidity is blockage of this process at any point. Bigotry, ideologies etc. block the ability to receive; robotic reality-tunnels block the ability to decode or integrate new signals; censorship blocks transmission.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson
    How's this for prescience?

    Quote “But they can rule by fraud, and by fraud eventually acquire access to the tools they need to finish the job of killing off the Constitution.'

    'What sort of tools?'

    'More stringent security measures. Universal electronic surveillance. No-knock laws. Stop and frisk laws. Government inspection of first-class mail. Automatic fingerprinting, photographing, blood tests, and urinalysis of any person arrested before he is charged with a crime. A law making it unlawful to resist even unlawful arrest. Laws establishing detention camps for potential subversives. Gun control laws. Restrictions on travel. The assassinations, you see, establish the need for such laws in the public mind. Instead of realizing that there is a conspiracy, conducted by a handful of men, the people reason—or are manipulated into reasoning—that the entire population must have its freedom restricted in order to protect the leaders. The people agree that they themselves can't be trusted.”
    ― Robert Anton Wilson, The Eye in the Pyramid
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 23rd April 2021 at 14:36.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    United States Avalon Member Blacklight43's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I have known a few people of very hi IQ and with lots of letters before and after their names and what they all seemed to have in common was...none of them had a lick of common sense! It was all book learned and that was their belief!

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    Australia Moderator Harmony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    People tend to base their mental image of their lives on what they have experienced and learned in their life. It is most likely a survival instinct. It makes a person feel safe and know how to react and what to expect and what might be coming in the future, sort of like a map, where you have come from, where you are and where you will head towards.

    When a person is very attached to that feeling, those anchor points where they feel in control, accepting new information that "cuts the ropes" of the anchor points is usually very unwelcome and uncomfortable.

    The person or source of that uncomfortable information will not be welcome unless a person has decided they want to look beyond. To discover how dark hidden and devolved some workings or conciousness are can be way more than some can handle.

    Also there seems to be other types of people that just don't seem to notice or enquire that there is anything amiss or even exists beyond their own small personal world.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    I agree that there does seem to be a large number of people with high IQ - and very FIXED ideas. (Many of them in "important" jobs).

    I believe it's imperative that we ALL need to be able to continually CHANGE our ideas as situations evolve & more "data" becomes available.

    If more people learn to do that, then our society could improve.

    As it stands, I believe that our society is floundering about like a stranded whale.

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    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    My wife and I often speak about this topic. In general we think (believe) that the more one is educated, especially college, graduated and postgraduate educated, the more a person thinks she or he knows all there is to know. Even outside of the field of their education and expertise.

    A certain elitism also emerges in many of these people. They think they’re right, because they learned it, and others are wrong because they do not have a high degree. I think that view is promoted by the system.

    Education and IQ are of course two different things. Education has become a dumbing down and indoctrination process, for the most part. By design.

    I’ve come to conclude (and I’m open to being convinced otherwise) that until a person opens up his or her mind and is ready to receive new, novel or challenging ideas, no amount of proof will convince him or her that their beliefs and opinions are wrong. Confirmation bias is too strong in many people. They don’t want to be pushed out of their comfort zone by having their beliefs put under the spotlight in their own minds. They might have to actually take action and do something that they perceive as threatening to their existence, livelihood etc... if they become convinced by new information and ideas that their world view is wrong, or even not entirely correct.

    I believe it is Gerry Spence, the lawyer, who said: “I’d rather have a mind open to wonder, than one closed by belief.”

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    1. The susceptibility to being initially influenced to form a belief.
    2. The resistance to letting go of it once it's entrenched.
    That resistance to letting go has all kinds of socioeconomic and cultural aspects to it that reinforce the belief and adherence to it, as, for university professors for instance, it is much more lucrative and secure to uphold a scientific paradigm you've found in your research may be outdated or plain wrong, since you can publish on it and retain your position and respect among your peers for upholding the metanarrative.

    For most people, it may be as simple as being tribal, wanting to fit in, wanting to be like the other people around them, which is something we all experience from the time we are engulfed by peer pressure at the youngest ages till we find ourselves in the old folks homes. Smart people who are empaths require the comfort of acceptance and love to live and even psychopaths need to feed.

    Belief can replace logic, science and common sense when it is held strongly enough by a group of people and leads to mass delusions and expressions of inhumanity in some cases, when seen in retrospect.

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    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Such a great idea for a thread...

    I am currently dealing with someone who has gotten their first "Degree" in higher education. They waited until after their children were born to get this, and they are extremely proud that they now have this degree and they wish to further it. All the while, ignoring the fact that their children are never getting to spend quality time with them, as they're always online "Taking classes"..

    Sadly, I have met many people with average intelligence, and many with an IQ higher than my own do these things.. My IQ is 146. And I feel I am fairly intelligent. I never took extended classes in anything. I felt all along that book smarts, and life smarts are two entirely different things. While a" book smart person" knows everything the book says, generally they have poor interaction skills, and even worse abilities when it comes to everyday situations.

    While this individual with a degree can use very intelligent words in conversation with other "Intellects" they fail to recognize they're ignoring their own children, and cannot function in a day to day environment. Everything they learn, that most know at an early age, must be spoon fed to them.. They cannot figure out how to drive a stick shift vehicle, they have no skills in how to repair anything, and they know very little in being able to use their own hands.

    In social situations, they can recite things they have learned in these books, but putting anything to practical use, is almost laughable. The worst thing is this person specialized in psychology, yet they have nearly zero social skills. They have no idea how to truly read a person as they never interact with them, and each person, upon inspection is being judged for whats wrong with them, based upon what the "books said"... And when they get into an uncomfortable social situation, their "Fall Back" is the book says that someone who acts like "this or that" must have a problem, or (enter any ridiculous reason here) for their behaviors.

    When this person is dealing with their own children, rather than show compassion or understanding, they diagnosis their own children with what the books say, rather than even trying to get to know them. This has caused major damage in the lives of 2 children, as rather than comfort and understanding for their trials in life, and helping them gain confidence, the kids end up getting therapy for problems they do not have.

    For example, their lifestyle lends zero support in social situations so their children are getting no social interaction skills. As a result they're uncomfortable around others their age, or they tend to be quiet and non engaging. When they do have to engage others, they get very nervous. They do not know how to, after years of being told to entertain themselves while their parent broadened their knowledge and degrees. Rather than express to them how to engage others, as the parent is also lacking in that area, the child is told they have social anxiety, and taken to a therapist. Diagnosed with social anxiety and given medications... Heartbreaking...

    So there is a real problem with intelligence and how humans perceive it. This person is convinced that in order to show you're intelligent, you must have degrees, and be able to show others that you have an education. I personally believe that while this person has all of the information that literature and tests have given them, that I have a better grasp on the reality of how a person is feeling, and what they're really going through.

    While they may hand out a diagnosis or whats wrong with someone, I would rather help them to learn coping skills. It's a dangerous thing in my opinion. That people believe these books, and then carry that into daily life as proper. This is how we got away from helping our fellow man, and have instead begun to victimize them...

    These young children have others in their life to help them gain the skills they need to better fit in, but sadly, those helping them, have to work against a parent who is harming them in many ways... Having them already start life at a young age, with a mental health history, merely because they lacked the emotional ability to stop spending so much time on their own education, to nurture their own children and help them grow in a loving way.

    It's easier to take them to a doctor than to express time and social situations, which also make them uncomfortable, so that the children can learn interaction skills..

    So this topic is a very important one... I did not go into higher education as I felt it was indoctrination. And while I may not have the best writing skills, or vocabulary, I can sure make someone smile. I can repair many things, I can build many things, and I am ever eager to learn more. I am self sufficient in many ways, and I do not fear new situations. I am expanding my horizon on knowledge, not education.

    When Covid came, I was so glad that schools were closed for awhile. Not because I wanted the kids to not learn, but I thought it was great that we essentially went back to a time where the kids were with their parents, when they truly needed them to mold their values and ideas. Not by a book, but with the ones who cared the most about them. Teachers are not allowed to deal with certain things...

    It also reminds me of the field of ufology... People calling themselves researchers.. Reading a few books, watching a few videos, then coming out onto the scene as someone who is "educated" as a researcher. One has to look at all of the finer details, compare the narrative to things that were found but never discussed. Do research into what those things mean, see if they're indeed true. To reexamine what the books say, not just read them.. But to ask questions of those in the books, the materials, etc. One must find the original material the book discusses, the people, the materials, etc... Researchers these days, fail to do his for the most part.

    Personally I spent years pulling up technical documents I barely understood, about medical statements when trying to understand neurology, how the brain works, to better understand what is possible when it comes to communications, technology, interfacing, etc. I wanted to know the truth for myself, or if some of the claims being made were even possible.. And that didn't even include whether the truth was being told about certain things.. Was it even possible for those things to occur? I researched those finer details. And then asked more questions. And to this day I would never consider myself to be knowledgeable about certain subjects, but more someone who researches them for my own benefit.

    Yet we have these kids on the scene, claiming to be specialists in certain areas. Faces on posters as "Speakers".. Sharing their "Knowledge".. It's a dangerous thing. And partially why this community is such a mess... as everyone then follows their lead.

    There is so much more I would like to write but time is short today for me.. But I do hope that others bring up situations in which intelligence and IQ and what is going on around us, is detrimental to society. We are moving forward in time, and we need to dismiss some silly notions in order to grow.. As it is we are not growing but entrapping ourselves in many ways with the beliefs we are forming about who and how we are being "Educated"... Learning to write to better communicate is one thing, but we have gotten far away from true knowledge seeking and schools now are nothing more than tools for indoctrination into a certain way of thinking, and in my opinion, it is very dangerous.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Blacklight43 (here)
    I have known a few people of very hi IQ and with lots of letters before and after their names and what they all seemed to have in common was...none of them had a lick of common sense! It was all book learned and that was their belief!
    Agreed... this mirrors my experiences as well.

    I ditched formal catholicism when given the choice by my parents (age 11 I believe)... I had questioned all of that ridiculous faith baloney long before that though. This simply occurred to me, as a mere child, that [their god] was contradictory and illogical [as dictated to me]... no one told me this, and actually, I had no opposing instructional influence. Conversely actually, my parents forced me to attend church and catechism - they were pro-religion. I was attending practically useless public school at the time.

    It seems that I may have been born with something that assisted me mentally... does that make me "smart", logical... or what lucky? If anything, I am even more skeptical of the stories we are told these days - even given my questionable U.S. education.

    I am a parent, and I have been around the track a few laps... my son, HE is a genius (PhD candidate) with the same root skill set as me ("programming"). Maybe it is a result of being raised around me that he DOES NOT have those seemingly common attributes of a brilliant person: highly limited in most [other] areas. He is well-rounded and well-founded. Honestly, he is one of the few [highly intelligent] people I have ever known NOT to be so oblivious to the rest of the world that they would get run over simply crossing the street.

    Obviously many other variables are in play, but I see in him some elements that I have - and they were not learned - just already there waiting for use.

    Me, and him, are definitely NOT "victims of belief".

    However, even granted those probable gifts - that ability should be able to be taught, shouldn't it - discerning fraud?
    Anything is possible with the proper training.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Don't we ALL have belief(system)s?
    Isn't even believing to not having belief(s) ... a belief?

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    Don't we ALL have belief(system)s?
    Isn't even believing to not having belief(s) ... a belief?
    Your alias alone deserves a Thanks.

    I agree with the question - in that we all have belief systems; some are right up front and easy to identify, while some may be subconscious.
    Anything is possible with the proper training.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    It'd be important to separate the fine line between inteligence and wisdom, and the definition of inteligence itself.

    I'm unsuccessfully trying to find an actual quote, maybe you guys know which one it is. Anyways, It went something like this:

    "War is chaos, and the one who prevails isn't the one who puts order to it, but the one who freely flows through it."

    For me, inteligence is that, the capabilty of flowing through the chaos. While chaos means things change, or they are not as true as they seemed, so quickly and properly adapting, also on a mental level, is necessary, being constantly skeptic, but having at the same time the security of your will to keep moving forward.

    As I'm writing this (and struggling) it sounds kinda related to the Thelema stuff.

    "Living without certainty, and delving into it" I guess.

    People who learn all those things to put an order to everything, even if it does work out sometimes, I don't consider them inteligent because of it, at least not right away.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
    Don't we ALL have belief(system)s?
    Yes, we all do. But the key is to be willing to re-examine them at any time if the evidence around us suggests we should.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    This is a serious thread. For years I've pondered why (e.g.) someone with a PhD and a measured IQ of 180 might be just really dumb and unaware outside of their specialist field. We see this ALL the time.

    It's not about EQ (Emotional Intelligence) or SQ (Spiritual Intelligence). I think it's about the predominant vulnerability of almost all humans, whatever their IQ, EQ, SQ, age, culture, or level of education, to be victims of belief.

    And there may be two components to that:
    1. The susceptibility to being initially influenced to form a belief.
    2. The resistance to letting go of it once it's entrenched.
    A high intellect can paradoxically be a handicap, as extremely clever people are often very skilled at self-justifying whatever beliefs they have. A smart and articulate person will defend their beliefs strongly, self-reinforcing all the time.

    I'd be most interested in other members' views (and experiences!) about this.
    Amen.

    Believe nothing, consider everything.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    The Whole Convoluted Idea of "Intelligence", IQ's, IQ Tests & Other Such Programmed Nonsense
    ~~~~

    Soo... bear with me here please, while I unleash my thoughts (and vents) about the above.

    Do we have an intelligence or IQ?

    Most definitely.

    Can we measure it in any accurate, conceivable or dare I say, "intelligent" way?

    Absolutely not.

    And here's why I firmly think/believe this. Everyone's welcome to come to their own conclusions and have their own opinions on such, but I stand firm in this like an immovable mountain or firmly rooted tree caught in a continual dust storm. Pull up your chair, get some coffee (or herbal tea or what have you) cuz this is likely going to be a very long explanation.

    First off, the idea of an IQ is not a static one, neither on a personal level nor a universal level.

    Personal Level:

    People change after all. Sometimes we progress and acquire more knowledge, whereas on the flip side, people can de-gress and lose knowledge based upon their own poor/bad choices they've made in life. Their knowledge, life experiences, information flow/inflow/outflow changes all the effin' time. Whether or not the "status quo" appeals to this matter of change, or if it doesn't, is further light shed on this ridiculous notion, I feel.

    People change. Multiple times even over the course of their lives. Do IQ tests account for this change? I seriously doubt it. And even if they do, read on, cuz I am far from being done here.

    Universal Level:

    Going back to the whole inflow/outflow equation here, information is constantly in flux all over the place. Data and the collection thereof is constantly changing. It all boils down to basically, make sure to ask the right questions and then and only then will one get the right answers. And no living being or civilization, no matter their societal advancements and overall technology level, can always ask the right questions in order to get the "right" answers. It simply doesn't exist, even if they think it does. I could be wrong on this, but there is far too much conviction on my part to ever simply agree with this silly, if not downright utterly stupid idea.

    So, even IF one were to be able to ask all the right questions, which would have to be tailored to each individual's experiences/knowledge (actual), non-experiences/non-knowledge (not ever having had the experience or the "proper" knowledge to back it up with), potential non-experiences/non-knowledge (non-experiences and the non-acquisition of the non-knowledge that accompanies these specific non-experiences, that are unlikely to ever be, even if not actual), alternate experiences/knowledge (alternate self experiences in other parallel universes/realities), potential experiences/knowledge (what might be), past experiences/knowledge (what was), present experiences/knowledge (what is), future experiences/knowledge (what will eventually be), source experiences/knowledge (wisdom and knowledge attained from the Divine Source of Oneness or one's Higher Self/Soul/Spirit, which could be further broken down into two sub-types; awakened vs non-awakened), totality experiences/knowledge (The Big Picture, which may not even have to do with self any more if we're gonna talk about the Divine Source here and not individuality anymore, though very well can and does include both), and so on.

    In other words, it's like the Neverending IQ test. Even if all the right factors were in place here, we could never get a full picture by any stretch of the imagination simply because we'd always be taking an IQ test and would never see the end results. And again, information/data flows are constantly changing. If one were to spend 5 minutes taking an IQ test, with several more questions to go, then who's to say that the next 5 minutes don't warrant an entirely new set of attributes in order to account for any/all possible changes? One cannot predict this in any sort of "intelligent" way. It's downright impossible. Not to mention insanely ludicrous to my mind and personal understanding.

    And don't even get me started on timed IQ tests. The very thought makes me want to vomit for ten years straight and gives me painful eye twitches and intense muscle spasms, even if only theoretically. Just not going there. :O

    And... if that weren't enough...

    We have:

    Types of Intelligences, Counter-Intelligences and Variant Intelligences (some of which was already covered in the above section)

    So, breaking this down further:

    IQ (generic) or simply "intelligence" in the huge nonsensical way we even view that to be.

    Intelligence is such a highly malleable and extremely formless idea overall, that dares one to even try and shackle it down in the first place, via our own all too often limited understandings of such, especially over time. This is such that we can/do have multiple Intelligences, just as we can/do have multiple Wisdoms and multiple Charismas.

    EQ or "Emotional Intelligence"

    SQ or "Spiritual Intelligence" on an individual level

    DQ or "Divine Intelligence" if and when we were/are to reconnect back with Source and the Greater Oneness of it all, then all intelligences become one in the end, making the whole idea of 'intelligence' in the first place completely obsolete.

    Wisdom - Which may or may not be the same as SQ and/or DQ, which evil clearly lacks either one of these. Though it's possible they might have a tiny amount of such, though it'd be miniscule at best.

    Wisdom can be further broken down into the various sub-categories of its own, ie: Spiritual Intelligence, to give just one example. We can/do have multiple Wisdoms, just as we can/do have multiple Intelligences and multiple Charismas.

    Charisma - Anything from being a party-goer, to enjoying jokes/humor and overall witty behavior, to "going with the flow", to social norms of being around others, or "social intelligence".

    Charisma can be further broken down into the "Joker/Prankster Mentality", Wit (combination of Intelligence, Wisdom and Sanity), "Social Intelligence" or "Be The Bard Intelligence", Party-Going Charismatic Intelligence which is a sub-type of Social Intelligence which in itself is a sub-type of Charisma or Charismatic Intelligence, "Waters Flow" Charismatic Intelligence, and so on. I firmly believe we all have multiple Charismas, just as we do multiple Intelligences and multiple Wisdoms.

    How does one even define Charisma in the first place? I have three ideas for that as well. They are:

    Presence, or how one generally carries themselves around others as well as around themselves. This could be termed in one of two ways, using one's presence to inspire others (good) or to manipulate/control others (evil).

    Presence (as above), combined with physical and/or inner beauty

    Inner Beauty alone, which evil has none of, strictly being a good-aligned trait only, going right along with the whole 'inspirational type presence' as mentioned above, which only good would normally have access to.

    Also ties in with Moral Intelligence/Moral Sanity, which may or may not be synonymous with Inner Beauty in general.

    Intuitive Intelligence or rather "Sixth Sense Intelligence", which can very well heavily overlap with the SQ, DQ and Wisdom types as explained above. Tends to dramatically increase if one is psychic or psychically aware to some extent as opposed to those who are just "sleeping" their way through life.

    Instinctual Intelligence - A more primal version of Intuitive Intelligence, or "as above, so below".

    "Book Smarts" (as Denise/Dizi mentioned)

    "Life Smarts" (as Denise/Dizi mentioned)

    Intelligence of Suffering aka IoS - How much one has suffered in their life and is able to come to terms with it and is its own form of intelligence and/or wisdom learned/gained.

    Intelligence of Desire aka IoD - Same idea as above, only regarding desires and one's hopes and dreams connected to this that have been fully realized or nearly so, based on the initial desire(s) itself/themselves, as well as the "speed" and order in which it was realized.

    Personal Experience (self-explanatory)

    General Knowledge (self-explanatory)

    Alternate Intelligence - Having to do with alternate self/selves and experiences thereof across multiple dimensions, both temporal, spatial, as well as actual and imaginary.

    Potential Experiences/Knowledge - What MIGHT be true for that individual, not the same as Future Experiences/Knowledge, as the "future" is not set in stone by any stretch.

    Past Experiences/Knowledge - What was true in the past for an individual, and might still apply even today.

    Present Experiences/Knowledge - What is true for each individual now/in this moment of time.

    Future Experiences/Knowledge - What will eventually turn out to be true for that individual, given the higher divine plans of the Universe (as opposed to 'Potential Experiences/Knowledge'.)

    Source Intelligence - Intelligence derived from the Source and/or Our Higher Selves.

    Totality Intelligence - The totality of all one's personal and perhaps even Divine Experiences of the One, throughout any/all infinities and temporalities had and not had, experienced and not-experienced, etc.

    COUNTER-INTELLIGENCES (things that could and do pose obstacles to one's overall intelligence and the ability to learn and grow, both as a human and that of a spiritual being in general)

    Non-Experiences/Non-Knowledge - Self-explanatory.

    Potential Non-Experiences/Non-Knowledge - Same as with the 'Potential Experiences/Knowledge' form of intelligence, albeit in a 'might not actually be there or ever be there, depending on the circumstances' form.

    Trust Intelligence - Does our ability (or lack thereof) to trust others help or hinder our intelligence when it really comes down to it? Who can say?

    Immoral Insanity - Psychopathic, sociopathic, and narcissistic behaviors have a serious disadvantage here. Arrogance and control-freak to the extreme. 'Nuff said.

    Gullibility - Accepting everything at face value and not bothering to do one's own research or looking into the matter themselves. In other words, 'Believe Everything', no matter how bizarre, which is an extremely dangerous mindset to have.

    Extreme Skepticism - Not believing anything, even if fully plausible to others. In other words, 'Deny Everything', which is immensely dangerous behavior on the polar opposite/complete end of the spectrum from the above.

    Hypocrisy - Doing/saying something is bad or dumb, then going off and doing/saying that exact same thing oneself. Lacks a certain amount of integrity and good will, don't ya think?

    Ignorance - We are all ignorant to some degree. That's a given. In other words, it's merely a lack of knowledge on our part, not a lack of intelligence. Very different from Willful Ignorance (see below).

    Willful Ignorance - The outright refusal to change one's viewpoints, even when all "evidence" and experiences to the contrary would pretty much demand it. A very dangerous and ultimately stupid mindset to have for anyone.

    Assumptions - Assuming things without proper "facts" to back it up with. Assumptions, IMO are pretty much guaranteed to be 99% wrong (if not even higher than that). Not to mention is extremely annoying and just plain foolish. Though I will argue we do not always a choice on this. That's something important to keep in mind as well. One does the best they can with the knowledge they have.

    Being A People-Pleaser - A very self-destructive path to take for anyone. One simply cannot please everyone. It's impossible. Don't even try, at the risk of your own sanity. Seriously.

    The Fool/Being Foolish - Could be a combination of any/all of the above mentioned counter-intelligences.

    And let's not forget the very likely possibility that the whole idea of intelligence and IQ is a false lie we've all been told to believe, that 'this is how it works' and 'this is how it doesn't work'. Question Everything. And I do.

    Personally, I don't buy into any IQ tests or profiling done on me. It's pretty much guaranteed to be only 1/10 of the entire picture, with the other 9/10 missing or heavily misconstrued, and even THAT is probably being too generous. :/

    Just sayin'.

    As always, the above is just my opinion. Everyone is completely free to think/believe how they like/wish to (so there's that perpetual wild card thrown into the mix there).

    I may add more to this later, I might not. Only time will truly tell.

    Edit: Forgot to include common sense as another variant to intelligence.
    Last edited by Free Thinker; 25th April 2021 at 21:09.
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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    IQ tests are pretty accurate actually and quite revealing. An IQ can be measured pretty easily. And it's the predominant indicator of success in the world, without question. Just ask yourself this: if you had a choice would you rather have an IQ of 65 or 145? If you had an IQ of 65 you wouldn't have any linguistic ability, would likely never be able to read, write, get a job, or leave home...regardless of what your so called emotional, spiritual, spatial, or musical intelligences were. It's definitely not 1/10th of the picture. When you're talking about intelligence, it's basically the whole picture.

    I'm not saying our emotional and spiritual etc worlds are unimportant, I'm saying those aren't "intelligences". They belong in whole other categories. But that's for another thread.

    Back on topic:
    In my opinion, smart people do stupid stuff when they allow themselves to be overwhelmed by emotion. I've seen so many people in the world recently - friends, relatives, so forth - people much smarter than me, say and do some of the dumbest f#cking things I've ever seen. There are several reasons for this. One is wanting to fit in. Another is not wanting to be ostracized. And yet another is the intoxicating feeling of unearned moral superiority.

    The desire to fit in, the fear of not fitting in and being ridiculed, and the elating sense of moral satiety will often overpower intelligence. At that point, the intelligent person doesn't become dumb all of a sudden, they just use their intelligence to cleverly justify all their fears. It's a form of cravenness or cowardice, I think. Intelligence does not always equal courage, unfortunately.
    Last edited by Mike; 25th April 2021 at 05:02.

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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Putting numbers of any kind on one's "IQ" is just more dogma and more lies. I, personally, will not fall for that trap.

    But to each their own.
    "The truth will set us free, whatever that may be."
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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Free Thinker (here)
    Putting numbers of any kind on one's "IQ" is just more dogma and more lies. I, personally, will not fall for that trap.

    But to each their own.
    Both you and Mike are right in your own ways.

    Generally, the thing that makes humans or any other animal what we term "intelligent" is pattern recognition. It basically comes down to that, and is the base premise behind an IQ test. Memory also has a strong play in what one might call intelligence, but specifically by definition, intelligence attempts to be defined outside of memory.

    The way I see it is the same as the difference between talent and skill. Everyone has talents, but most don't ever realize it, because a talent almost always needs a particular skill for it to be able to be expressed. I have a strong musical talent, but its mostly "latent" because I never developed any really good skill with an instrument to be able to express it. I know I have talent because with what tiny little skill I have been able to learn, I have been able to do amazing musical things with.

    Intelligence is similar; if one doesn't have the needed skill to express it, it can seem like it doesn't exist. I know many children that are clearly extremely intelligent, pattern recognition is off the charts, but they probably wouldn't score very high on an IQ test because of their incomplete structural language and expectation development.

    So a low IQ test doesn't necessarily mean a lack of intelligence, but a high IQ score usually indicates a high intelligence plus the skills needed to be able to express that intelligence.

    EDIT to add:
    Of course "intelligence" is just one of many the valuations that humans can possess that give them special value. We tend to lump all these valuations, under the term "intelligence" without any proper distinction, but like you mention above, there are many other distinct values for consideration.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 25th April 2021 at 04:22.
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    Intelligence is similar; if one doesn't have the needed skill to express it, it can seem like it doesn't exist.

    I know many children that are clearly extremely intelligent, pattern recognition is off the charts, but they probably wouldn't score very high on an IQ test because of their incomplete structural language and expectation development.
    I don't believe I stated that intelligence didn't exist. Just that it can not be accurately measured.

    And your last comment pretty much states it all, what exactly I was trying to express and describe in the first place. The system itself is inherently flawed, yet it is "the system", so it must be right?

    Not in my book, it isn't.
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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why humans are unintelligent: it's all about belief

    Quote Posted by Free Thinker (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

    Intelligence is similar; if one doesn't have the needed skill to express it, it can seem like it doesn't exist.

    I know many children that are clearly extremely intelligent, pattern recognition is off the charts, but they probably wouldn't score very high on an IQ test because of their incomplete structural language and expectation development.
    I don't believe I stated that intelligence didn't exist. Just that it can not be accurately measured.

    And your last comment pretty much states it all, what exactly I was trying to express and describe in the first place. The system itself is inherently flawed, yet it is "the system", so it must be right?

    Not in my book, it isn't.
    I don't think I was claiming that you stated that intelligence didn't exist, if that's how it came across perhaps I could have been more concise. I was just explaining, how Intelligence can be considered, what it generally represents as the IQ test measures it, and how IQ tests can't detect much outside of pattern recognition.

    I don't think I know anyone that would state that an IQ is the be-all and end-all of determining a persons worth or even intelligence. Perhaps you put too much faith in that belief that it is considered the de facto standard, or "system" as you put it.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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